Newbie 2100 | Town wins

[T3]

Wagon on me

[T3]

9 pages and the deadline is in 3 days

[T3]

VOTE: Tejate Raichu

Because I can.

I immediately get bad vibes from this post and to be honest I can kind of see why there is a wagon on me.

[T3]

VOTE: Emollient for putting someone at e-2 so early.

It's not really serious.

This sequence of posts is very scummy. Bloodbot does an RVS vote but his justification of it seems likely self-conscious scum. His second post also pings me in the same way, when questioned about his vote he responds to it in a way that doesn’t sit right tonally.

[T3]

Yeah, I had no reason for this vote of course, just making RVSish waves... Now voting me for a reason, so early... that could be something.
UNVOTE: Tejate
VOTE: BloodB0t

This post is towny from Emollient. I’ll say why later.

[T3]

Emollient's retaliatory vote on me is probably NAI.

But I think your behavior

could

be alignment indicative... When I noticed that you were the first to vote on a real reason, so early, you immediately called my vote "retaliatory" and voted someone else.

OK I'm pushing too hard, right?

This post also reads as self-consciousness, but a towny self-consciousness as opposed to a scummy self-consciousness.

[T3]

VOTE: Emollient for putting someone at e-2 so early.

It's not really serious.

Hello everyone. Third game here on MS for me, excited to see where it goes. I'll be gone for most of today but will be sure to catch up once I get home tonight.

VOTE: Tejate Raichu

I don't recognize any people in this thread, but CornPuff"Buddha"? Well, using my detective skills, we realize that Buddha was a spiritual figure. By declaring yourself a Buddha, does that not imply you are perhaps compensating for a lack spirituality? Perchance? And who would be less spiritual than a mafioso?

I think I've made my point, I rest my case.

VOTE: CornPuffBuddha

This reasoning is unshakable! I approve.
VOTE: CornPuffBuddha

Emollient's retaliatory vote on me is probably NAI.

It does have a little bit of a theater vibe

Bloodbot’s post have a theater vibe?

[T3]

VOTE: Emollient for putting someone at e-2 so early.

We're still in RVS. Why so serious?

It's not really serious.

It may not seem serious, but maybe it does deserve taking a closer look. In my experience, it's not uncommon for a slot to get 2 votes in RVS in a 9p setup, but 3? Starts getting into dangerous territory.

Now keeping tabs on the early

Tejate Raichu

wagon.

1/2 scum found

[T3]

Some interesting RVS shenanigans going on. It should go without saying that these are not to be taken as concrete reads, but my general thoughts so far:

Blood votes Emollient, who jumped on the Tejate wagon, for "putting someone at E-2 so early". They say this wasn't intended to be serious, which I'll take at face value. Emollient OMGUSes Blood, construing their intro post as a legitimately reasoned vote, and swaps off the Tejate wagon. In 21 Emollient just doubles down on this, and while at first I saw Emollient as being overly aggressive, when I think about it I see their point. Though Blood's opening vote may have been RVS, their stated reasoning seemed pretty serious (compared to the goofy theatrics of the others), and the fact that they tried immediately to avoid confrontation with Emollient is also interesting.

For what it's worth, as to what Greeting says in 23, I really don't think E-2 during RVS is "dangerous territory". Even though this is a newbie game, I think it's pretty well understood that quickhammering on D1 would mean doom, especially not even 50 posts in.

One more thing (don't think this has been asked yet) - newbies, what's your mafia experience on/off the forum? Personally, I have quite a bit of experience in social deduction videogames (Town of Salem, mafia.gg, Mindnight), a bit of IRL, and two games here on MS (in 2091, my first game, I was scum, and in 2093 I was town, for those who wish to read meta).

This post is 90% padding and 10% content, which is sometimes scummy. This might just be a thing to do with CPB’s general way of playing - when I finish catching up I’ll skim through his previous games.

UNVOTE: Tejate Raichu
VOTE: BloodB0t

What made you vote Bloodbot in between the first and second post?

[T3]

Hello! Of this

role list

, I only remember Greeting and Salsabil Faria.

It's weird to say role list rather than player list

Btw, I don’t remember playing with you

Do you mind using a different color? Yellow is an eyesore with the mafSilver site theme. Thanks!

I don’t like this post. Salsa is just shading KT for something completely NAI.

[T3]

I have absoluto zero experience on Mafia games (Meatworld / Online), or even social deduction games. "Oh you maaake me feel, shiny and new, like a virgin."

CornPuffBuddha you wrote a very clean recap, trying to make things clear. I wasn't aware my thoughts could be perceived as so "overly" aggressive, but I can see it now. Your recap looks like helping town to me, but I still consider it NAI.

Thanks for the votecount

Either Emollient is scum that subconsciously radiates town vibes, or he received a green role PM.

[T3]

I've played a lot of RL and forum Mafia, but that was 10-15 years ago. I played a game last year on Mafiascum and got the itch again, so here I am.

@ Kitty Why no RVS? Is this usual for you?

Oh you were the drunk guy who posted about being stoner in the queue a while ago
I remember you

[T3]

Bloodb0t seems to have become a point of contention, which makes sense. However, I would like to point out that casually sussing Bloodb0t is extremely easy to make posts about at this stage in the game.

Emollient's retaliatory vote on me is probably NAI.

But I think your behavior

could

be alignment indicative... When I noticed that you were the first to vote on a real reason, so early, you immediately called my vote "retaliatory" and voted someone else.

OK I'm pushing too hard, right?

This makes sense, since Emollient was the one to start the engagement with Bloodb0t in the first place.

<a bunch of bloodb0t quotes, snipped>
It does have a little bit of a theater vibe

Thinking more on it, not sure that I really love this post. It's not hard suspicion on Wayward for the moment, but I do feel like this is taking an easy way out when it comes to discussion. At the moment this post was made, genuine suspicion of Bloodb0t had just begun. Maybe I'm reading too much into this due to the lack of content at the time of this post, but this really does seem like the kind of post that's really easy to throw out there to pretend you're contributing.

Hello! Of this

role list

, I only remember Greeting and Salsabil Faria.

It's weird to say role list rather than player list

Btw, I don’t remember playing with you

Agreed, very strange wording. I'm not sure it would be a good idea to press on this topic, though.

Yes, Wayward Son’s post about Bloodbot is taking the easy way out, but there also is barely any content to judge anyone on.

[T3]

In post 22, Wayward Son wrote:

It does have a little bit of a theater vibe

Thinking more on it, not sure that I really love this post. It's not hard suspicion on Wayward for the moment, but I do feel like this is taking an easy way out when it comes to discussion. At the moment this post was made, genuine suspicion of Bloodb0t had just begun. Maybe I'm reading too much into this due to the lack of content at the time of this post, but this really does seem like the kind of post that's really easy to throw out there to pretend you're contributing.

I'm sure not gonna call it was a scum tell. I thought the sequence of posts were amusing and it was the only real thing happening atm. Hopefully soon...

I don’t like this post. Posts being performative is obviously a scum tell. Wayward saying that the posts were amusing to him and not scummy is fake and is a weak excuse to get out of being questions.

[T3]

I think BloodB0t and Tejate may be the scum team because Bloodb0t defended Tejate for being put at E-2.

Yikes
I can see why my slot is sitting at e-2

[T3]

We have one votes each, so choose between Bloodb0t and Tejate.

What a strange proposition. We still have 8 full days left before deadline. What makes you so dead set on pushing me and by extension Bloodb0t based off this one, tiny, one sided RVS interaction not even 100 posts in? This push smells strongly of BS.

I haven't really had too much to say. I end up being more passive than I should be in the early game, even though I don't really stay in RVS mindset for very long. There are some comments that have stuck out to me, but I'm a bit busy at the moment so I'll compile them in like half an hour or so.

Why do you need to say this Tejate?

No one is calling you out.

It seems like an excuse to stay off the radar.

An excuse to stay under the radar? What gives you that impression? I said "Hey, I'm going to post my thoughts in a bit" and then I did it. If I wanted to "stay under the radar" I could have just not piped up about anything game relevant, or at all. And furthermore, why do I need a reason to make game relevant posts beyond wanting to win the game? Just because I'm not the most experienced player ITT doesn't mean I have to sit in a corner saying nothing the whole game until my name is called.

Tejate’s response to Calum seems like it comes from a towny place, because Tejate both defends himself and asks Calum what gives him the impression that Tejate is trying to fly under the radar. It’s like Tejate is town who is truly curious about what gave Calum that impression, so he can work it out with Calum.

[T3]

@ Calum No not really, I've used it before.

You say you're new but that doesn't mean you're not scum. You seem kinda off kilter this early, if that's even the right way to describe it.

Are you scum?

@ emollient You've become my newest, and maybe strongest town read.

70 was very good! I sure hope you're on our side!

Alright, we’re on the same page here.

[T3]

Why?

Is it because of the profile pic?

If I can defend my slot for a little bit here - This is a towny post.

Calum truly has no idea why anyone could possibly suspect him. I think scum!Calum would have a more panicked reaction, and worry that he’s done something wrong.

[T3]

I'm dumb and new!

Looking at ISOs right now.

- Calum is fast: first post, and already reading a scumteam (and its associated strategy "choose one of them" in #58).
- Greeting doesn't seem to be trying to read anything at all.
- Buddha tends to describe things from the above, delivering top-down analysis.
- Salsabil made only 2 (almost) empty posts (like Kitty).
- BloodBot started posting with a high frequency, then slowed down abruptly.
- Tejate shows a natural equilibrium in posting behavior. I'm blind here.
- Wayward has been taking his time, then strikes surprisingly in #68.
- Kitty made only 2 (almost) empty posts (like Salsabil).

@Wayward, am I using the right pronoun?
@Wayward, "Preview is my friend" → "absoluto" was on purpose (but ok, not funny after all)

Do you think that Calum’s theory about the scum team is scummy? Do you think that Buddha’s top-down analysis is towny?

I also like Emollient’s reaction to Tejate’s posting.

[T3]

@ emollient You've become my newest, and maybe strongest town read.

70 was very good! I sure hope you're on our side!

What was towny about 70?

[T3]

I'm waiting for the quiet people to post before I post with more frequency again.

Why?

[T3]

Agreed, very strange wording. I'm not sure it would be a good idea to press on this topic, though.

KittyTacky

uses strange wording in general (personal meta experience, played with him before and have seen him play).

It's not the wording that's worrying me though, it's the general lack of content.

This is very scummy shading of KT. A lack of content isn’t something that’s concerning, KT has made 2 posts and hasn’t visited the thread since.

[T3]

Early townleans:

Wayward Son

- Easily the towniest ISO so far in this game, committed to making meta reads (20), progressing the game (65). The second one is more important, as dead games always favour scum who can hide in the shadows and do nothing. It's uncommon for mafia-aligned players, especially newbies to have the drive to make fake progress in a game.

I don't necessarily agree with the

Tejate Raichu

townread (63) though. Why?

CornPuffBuddha

- Weaker townread than the latter, nonetheless shows traces of actual analysis of the gameplay (29).

A question for you though, why do you think

BloodB0t

is "unusually passive"? Have you played with them before? (44)

These reads are fairly surface-level, which isn’t scummy in of itself, but I also think that town Greeting is certainly capable of deeper reads.

[T3]

@ Greeting or anyone.

How do we jump start a slow game?

I AM Town, and I wanna win.

@ Calum No not really, I've used it before.

You say you're new but that doesn't mean you're not scum. You seem kinda off kilter this early, if that's even the right way to describe it.

Are you scum?

@ emollient You've become my newest, and maybe strongest town read.

70 was very good! I sure hope you're on our side!

Don't like these. Reasons:

1.

Re:65>> Buddy attempt to town!

Greeting

or scum-theatre attempt with scum!

Greeting

. The underlined part is read to me like what a (newb) scum would say, "

Look, I'm town!

". [There is a term here for it, can't remember]

2.

Re:68>> Useless question, as if scum!

Calum

will admit if he is scum... seems '

asking for the sake of asking

' kind of situation.

3.

Re:72>> Pocketing attempt to town!

Emollient

as soon as he post 70 which is also a empty post per se...

VOTE: Wayward

Early townleans:

Wayward Son

- Easily the towniest ISO so far in this game, committed to making meta reads (20), progressing the game (65).

The second one is more important, as dead games always favour scum who can hide in the shadows and do nothing. It's uncommon for mafia-aligned players, especially newbies to have the drive to make fake progress in a game.

Not agree. Saw the opposite, and done the opposite.

While I do disagree with Salsa’s analysis here, I do think that Salsa’s analysis is towny.

About post 68, Calum was obviously new to the game and it’s not unreasonable to think that he would openly admit it or slip in some way.

[T3]

Hello,

T3

. I'm glad you're catching up and giving us something more than your predecessor did.

Agreed, very strange wording. I'm not sure it would be a good idea to press on this topic, though.

KittyTacky

uses strange wording in general (personal meta experience, played with him before and have seen him play).

It's not the wording that's worrying me though, it's the general lack of content.

This is very scummy shading of KT. A lack of content isn’t something that’s concerning, KT has made 2 posts and hasn’t visited the thread since.

I strongly disagree. Activity levels

can

be alignment indicative, and I had the full right to judge

KT

the way I did. He did start getting more active later though.

Early townleans:

Wayward Son

- Easily the towniest ISO so far in this game, committed to making meta reads (20), progressing the game (65). The second one is more important, as dead games always favour scum who can hide in the shadows and do nothing. It's uncommon for mafia-aligned players, especially newbies to have the drive to make fake progress in a game.

I don't necessarily agree with the

Tejate Raichu

townread (63) though. Why?

CornPuffBuddha

- Weaker townread than the latter, nonetheless shows traces of actual analysis of the gameplay (29).

A question for you though, why do you think

BloodB0t

is "unusually passive"? Have you played with them before? (44)

These reads are fairly surface-level, which isn’t scummy in of itself, but I also think that town Greeting is certainly capable of deeper reads.

Did you consider the fact that this was page 4, post 79? Because if you didn't, then it's your analysis that isn't deep enough.

You’re right, to be honest. When judging your post there I started with the premise that you were scum and neglected to mention what I liked about the post.

I was referring to you as scum, yes.

[T3]

I also fail to see the point of trying to explain your predecessor's behavior,

T3

. It should be obvious to literally everyone that it is in your best interest to look towny regardless of your actual alignment and that they should judge you and Calum in combination.

Yes, it is in my best interests to look towny regardless of my alignment. That is why I am defending Callum.

[T3]

I have absoluto zero experience on Mafia games (Meatworld / Online), or even social deduction games. "Oh you maaake me feel, shiny and new, like a virgin."

CornPuffBuddha you wrote a very clean recap, trying to make things clear. I wasn't aware my thoughts could be perceived as so "overly" aggressive, but I can see it now. Your recap looks like helping town to me, but I still consider it NAI.

Thanks for the votecount

Either Emollient is scum that subconsciously radiates town vibes, or he received a green role PM.

Emollient was a townlean (for me, many players in the thread also townread him), and his successor,

Moonshot

did a pretty good analysis of the gamestate recently.

I don't like this evaluation by you actually. It essentially boils down to either Emollient is mafia or town, which is kinda like saying nothing.

Yeah, it does pretty much boil down to “either Emollient is mafia or town.”
I suppose that in my head when I was making the post my intent was to convey my conviction that Emollient is town.

But you can’t read my mind, so that point is moot.

[T3]

My initial votes were intentionally strange for the purpose of getting reactions. From this point on I will be voting sincerely.

I can see scum!Bloodbot doing this. We played in a game together recently. I was scum, I did something similar, and I was pretty widely townread for it.

[T3]

Also, KittyTacky, what are your thoughts so far reading back through the thread? And is there a reason you didn't vote anyone in your opening?

I second this question.

Any thoughts on the thread so far,

KittyTacky

?

I think it's actually easier to read people this time around than in my few previous games, TBH.

KT’s tone feels like night and day to when I’ve played with town!him, but I’ll have to check.

[T3]

@ T3 if you're reading (as you go), Why are you jumping around, instead of going chronologically?

I am going chronologically, but when someone talks to me on the same page I’ll answer it.

[T3]

What I meant is Emollient did something that (in my experience) almost never comes from scum. Later I wouldn't mind discussing it.

I think I’m currently comfortable with a townblock of me/Wayward Son/Emollient

[T3]

I pointed out that I usually don't solve games by assuming that the mafia team has a strategy, because there might as well be none. But then took the time to actually analyse what has been given here, and something's off here.

In my opinion, Calum's play thus far lines up more with 2 and 3 than what I would expect a townie to be saying this early. Especially the part where they immediately suggested to vote one of me or Bloodb0t. The biggest thing that gives me pause at the moment is that, if they are leaning 3, the most aggressive playstyle, I would expect them to be following up more, especially with my posts countering Calum. They did say they were new, but I don't want to discount this doubt based on that alone.

Then, I looked at

Calum

's ISO. It's full of single-sentenced posts, questions, half-naked votes. Very little content.

How would you categorise this as 2/3? It's

literally

coasting. He does not engage in discussion, his questions do not redirect the discussion. His influence on the game is minuscule.

This kind of seems like splitting hairs. As you say, it's not like scum has to have a strategy that they stick to. They could switch things up depending on any number of things. I do think Calum's been exhibiting behavior from all 3 categories. His low post/word count could be considered coasting, but all of his little content fits into 2/3. That doesn't exonerate them at all. Calum has been one of the most scummy players so far. The specific categorization of his strategy doesn't really matter.

I think your overall play exhibits strategy number 2, which is the most dangerous one for town in my opinion. You're also using strategy 3 in the quoted post because the inconsistency you point out doesn't really matter.

I would prefer to Lim you day 1, so VOTE: Greeting, but I am also willing to hammer the more harmless scum in Wayward/Calum because those are more likely to actually happen. I sense that a D1 vote on you probably won't be gaining much traction, which is unfortunate.

In my experience scum almost never have a strategy that they stick to. Maybe there’s a Townie that they plan to mislim that hard townreads all the scum, maybe someone gets hard guiltied, etc.
There are just way too many variables.

Case in point: My scumgame with Galron. We planned to bus each other but not have Galron limmed, and then mislim Eira or you. But then Galron was inactive, I figured out Eira was a Mason, and the whole strategy went to pieces.

[T3]

This kind of seems like splitting hairs. As you say, it's not like scum has to have a strategy that they stick to. They could switch things up depending on any number of things. I do think Calum's been exhibiting behavior from all 3 categories. His low post/word count could be considered coasting, but all of his little content fits into 2/3. That doesn't exonerate them at all. Calum has been one of the most scummy players so far. The specific categorization of his strategy doesn't really matter.

I think your overall play exhibits strategy number 2, which is the most dangerous one for town in my opinion. You're also using strategy 3 in the quoted post because the inconsistency you point out doesn't really matter.

I would prefer to Lim you day 1, so VOTE: Greeting, but I am also willing to hammer the more harmless scum in Wayward/Calum because those are more likely to actually happen. I sense that a D1 vote on you probably won't be gaining much traction, which is unfortunate.

Nice try. I was just about to wait for

Tejate

to respond and start questioning him about his townread of you, but this pre-emptive attack seems to me that I'm heading towards the right direction.

This vote is completely unsurprising. It makes sense when one looks back at

Tejate Raichu

's ISO and he actually white knighted you (48) even though, in my opinion, there's really no reason for town to do so. I was just pondering a potential

Tejate

/

BloodB0t

team. Even if

Tejate

is actually town, he's the only notable advocate to not eliminate you.

What's the truth? Your "reads" are inconsistent and chaotic. Townies sometimes are inconsistent and chaotic, but not within one post:

Greeting's non-reaction to my vote and getting on with moving the game forward does seem slightly townie

, I guess, though it could be scum doing well at appearing town. I do find it a bit strange that he asked cornpuff if we've played together before. I didn't mention having any experience here (41). This is my second game here and the first is still ongoing.

As a matter of fact, I replied to you in 96, but you didn't really seem to care. Is that really inciting discussion or just posting reads for the sake of it?

My scum reads are Wayward, Greeting, maybe Calum.

Kitty's inactivity is suspicious. Though none of my scum reads are very strong yet, I will VOTE: Wayward because it is the strongest nonetheless.

You defend yourself by claiming that your votes were intentionally strange (90) and you're "making waves" and want to see what happens (106).

Your voting record so far is also really bad, your main scumreads are literally obvtown players (even if you not count myself). These are all actually book scumreads, from Mini's Scumhunting Kit: :"Trying to discredit obvtown people for bad reasons", "Being "jokingly" scummy, self-admitting they are scummy, claiming scum" (admitting your bad ISO).

And, since LAMIST has been mentioned in this game before, trying to initiate discussion for the sake of it, not for the sake of forming reads literally falls under the definition from this scumhumting guide.

"Look at me, I'm so town!" (+1.0)
It's the so-called LAMIST tell and it's still relevant enough to have its own acronym! Newbscum usually are very concerned with 'looking good' to avoid falling under suspicion, but don't know how to fake-scumhunt. Instead, they will do things like pushing the lurkers to contribute, trying to "resuscitate" them by voting them, asking for reads on themselves, talking a lot about the game itself (this is called IIoA), claiming they are doing anything in their power to get information.

Post in reference - 41: zero relation of vote to post content, claiming to elicit reaction afterwards.

This is a good Day 1 elimination.

VOTE: BloodB0t

Ehh. I agree with some of the points in this post, but the part about Tejate seems like Greetingnis pushing a narrative in order to secure Calum’s vote.

[T3]

Salsa makes a really good point in 127. Bloodbot does never answer what he gathered.

[T3]

I just finished my first game, so you guys can read it if you think it might help you understand my playstyle viewtopic.php?p=13473585#p13473585

The post I linked is where I tried to form a case against the 'leader' type mafia, namely T3.

I gotta say that I get the same feeling about Greeting in this game that I had about T3 in the other game. But I decided to go with the crowd in that game because it seemed nobody was going to vote T3 D1. That's how I feel about this game, too.

Sup

This is a pretty towny observation, but being a leader isn’t necessarily scummy. This is a newbie game, and Greeting is an SE, so it makes sense that he would try to lead the town and guide the newbies, regardless of alignment.

[T3]

Not seeing any strong associatives between Blood and Wayward, going back through their ISO's. In fact I'm seeing some of the opposite. So I don't see a scumteam there, unless Emollient is seeing something I'm missing.

I guess Wayward just doesn't wanna talk about the dumbtell thing. Whatever.

Yeah, it’s not best to talk about the dumb tel thing rn

[T3]

We have more than 4 days and why the hell do you think,

BloodB0t

, that putting someone on E-1 this early would be a good idea as town!!!! Don't like it at all.

In town!

Calum

scenario, I think scums are already on the wagon as after 138, no one ended the day early >> Theory 01
[I also don't like the fact that

Calum

ignored my questions about him in my 127 + his 134 is just bad]

There is at least one scum in them (hopefully 2) {

Calum

,

Greeting

,

BloodB0t

,

Wayward

,

Tejate

} >> Theory 02 (based on interactions with each other +

if x flip green so y will be scum

theory)

Townreads:

CornPuffBuddha

,

Emollient

FYI, I skimmed after my last post, so a detailed overview will be posted later, don't find time to isoing anyone yet.

Bloodbot putting someone on E-1 isn’t scummy - Bloodbot was pretty trigger happy last game

[T3]

Can you explain, why you think they can be the scumteam?

There exists a pattern in this game in which

Tejate Raichu

and

BloodB0t

show signs of supporting rach other each other (90, 48 - from

Tejate

), and even

BloodB0t

defends

Tejate Raichu

(12) even though in my opinion, there isn't enough towny stuff by

BloodB0t

to support this.

Another notable connection between the two is post 91, from

Tejate

, where he claims that

BloodB0t

should "post more". But it's not really that threatening.

No disagreement there, Bloodb0t should be posting given the large amount of contention his slot has at the moment. However, I do take issue with Calum hard pushing me and him as a group.

My major issue here is that

BloodB0t

on surface level is not even remotely towny and yet,

Tejate

writes him off and even slightly supports him.

I disagree - if anything some of these say that they are not partnered. For example, saying that Bloodbot should post more is something always done in a scum PT.

[T3]

UNVOTE: T3

T3's entry and the response to it has given me some things to think about. Feeling a bit less confident in this slot's scuminess now. I intend to look over some posts from T3, Salsabil, and Greeting later though I am a bit busy and will be for the latter half of the day.

In the meantime,

@T3

who would you say is your strongest SR at the moment? Like, if we had to vote right this second who are you parked on?

Greeting

More catchup coming soon

[T3]

Greeting

More catchup coming soon

Because of one post (23), which you never explained, even though I specifically asked you to (242).

When you put it like that…..

I scumread that post because it looked like you were trying to cast shade on things that are NAI, and there was stuff of very little substance that only serves to cast attention on to other players.

In short: this post pinged me very badly

[T3]

Your reasoning is that he's too scummy to be scum?????

Calum's ISO is pretty bad. But my worry is that town!Calum is low hanging fruit for scum, and a green flip on Calum wouldn't get us that much information going into D2. I think that a vote on Wayward or Blood, no matter how it flips, would be much more informative to the state of the game.

I'm interested in what my flip could give you?

From my perspective you'll get my Town reads and my best guess for scum.

Fluff

Spoiler:

I'm going to a concert, so I won't be around til late tonight. Evenescence and Korn.

Spoiler: fluff

nice - I’m a casual fan of both evanescence and korn. They’re coming to my city in a week.

[T3]

Your reasoning is that he's too scummy to be scum?????

"Too scummy to be scum" is a fallacy, especially in newbie games. Pretty sure he's just scum.

KT is acting very muted which I think is a scumtell for him.

[T3]

How does a lack of contribution and a bad iso give you a null read on Calum? Normally when people have null reads on someone, it's because they are conflicted between different points that seem to support both a town and a scum. So what about Calum supports him being townie and goes against him being scum? It seems like you're just avoiding giving a real read on him.

See 181.

This is a Newbie game. Some Newbie slots are just like that, they don't fully know how to play, even if they know how to play, they might not know how people play on MafiaScum (long Day Phases, a lot of analysing) they get stressed/discouraged and sometimes even replace out.

Greeting’s defense of Calum is towny - Calum pretty widely suspected and there’s no reason for Greeting to try to stop the momentum of Calum’s wagon.

[T3]

Here are my initial thoughts on the game.

Calum

While the play does look scummy, it could well be the case that he is new (as he states in 55 and simply doesn't have a clue as to what is going on or how to play. I'd rather wait to see how he develops (if indeed he posts anything else) I don't think there would be

much

any info gained from flipping this slot right now.


Also....

I'll go find a profile pic.

can you make this a priority, if you are still playing that is.

Wayward Son

An awful lot of fluffposting as has been pointed out and isn't adding much right now.
I'm struggling to decide whether it's town fluff of scum fluff.

Bloodb0t's ISO is pretty bad.

Can you point out a few things from their ISO that you find bad please?

CornPuffBuddha

I'm liking as town very much, really looks like genuiue attempts at solving the game going on so far.

I'll give a full reads list later if anybody would find that useful, but I think my reads are more or less transparent at the moment.

Yes please!

One more thing (don't think this has been asked yet) - newbies, what's your mafia experience on/off the forum?

I previously played a couple of games on this site, about 15 years ago. I've played on a couple of other forums too.

Tejate Raichu

Seems to be hung up on pushing a Calum lim with a hot mess of opinion on bloodbot.

For example.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on the idea that I was directly defending Bloodb0t's slot. To be clear, at this point in time I don't particularly mind a day 1 elim on them, he's simply not my first choice. I currently don't see a universe where Calum's actions aren't significantly more scummy thus far than Blood's.

So you are fine with a Bloodbot lim... but,

snip...

1) He comes off scummier to me than Bloodb0t at this current moment. This does

not

mean I townread Bloodb0t.
2) scum!Calum has a very high chance of implying a town!Bloodb0t.

TL;DR, I null read Bloodb0t and scum read Calum. I don't believe I ever actually WK'd Bloodb0t in post 48.

Tejate Raichu thinks Calum is guarenteed scum, and Bloodbot is null but also thinks that if Calum is scum Bloodbot is almost certain to be town. but is

still

ok with a bloodbot lim.
So two questions.

1. Is Bloodbot still a null read? (if not, why not?)
2. Why would you be ok with eliminating a null read?

BloodB0t

I'm leaning town at this point. I think I'm reading newbie!town trying to scumhunt (badly).
If any of his detractors have anything to change my mind then I'd love to hear it*.

*Pedit:

@Greeting

I'm aware of your case, I'll share my views on this in another post. This one is already a bit too WoT

Salsabil Faria (SE)

Not liking at all.

It's weird to say role list rather than player list

Looking at Kitty's location and general language I'm going to hazard a guess that English is not their first language. This kind of "case" is just lazy and pointless.

Yeah, right but it would be if it's a

scum-slip

. Iirr,

Kitty

isn't a total newb and the wording can't be proved as a slip, so I'm gonna drop the theory for now.

How could using the "wrong" word

ever

be a scum-slip?

@ Greeting or anyone.

How do we jump start a slow game?

I AM Town, and I wanna win.

@ Calum No not really, I've used it before.

You say you're new but that doesn't mean you're not scum. You seem kinda off kilter this early, if that's even the right way to describe it.

Are you scum?

@ emollient You've become my newest, and maybe strongest town read.

70 was very good! I sure hope you're on our side!

Don't like these. Reasons:

1.

Re:65>> Buddy attempt to town!

Greeting

or scum-theatre attempt with scum!

Greeting

. The underlined part is read to me like what a (newb) scum would say, "

Look, I'm town!

". [There is a term here for it, can't remember]

I read this as a newb asking a

SE

for advice on how to try to get the game going. What do you think of this interaction now, particularly, in light of post 78?


Do you think that newb town might also say the underlined part? If not why not?

Opposite of your[/color]

Wayward

read, null/scum; null/townread on

Calum

, like his posts on page 3 (though I'm not sure about his 58 yet) & on

CornPuffBuddha

for 82 mainly, seems like we're on the same page; rests are null for now.

This is so strange. you like Calum's page 3 posts?
Here is one of them.

I am town.

You, in the same post, just listed this as something a new scum player would most likely say.

Greeting (SE)

I have to say greeting is obv!town.

KittyTacky (SE)

Also, KittyTacky, what are your thoughts so far reading back through the thread? And is there a reason you didn't vote anyone in your opening?

I second this question.

Any thoughts on the thread so far,

KittyTacky

?

I think it's actually easier to read people this time around than in my few previous games, TBH.

And yet we don't have any reads from you other than Bloodbot is prob!town and Calum is prob!newScum

TL;DR

Town:
Greeting, CornPuffBuddha

Null Leaning town:
Bloodbot

Null leaning Mafia:
Wayward Son, Calum, KittyTacky

Mafia:
Tejate Raichu, Salsabil Faria

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

And that's me done for now.

why is greeting obvtown?

[T3]

And another thing: Greeting, you have said a couple times now that Calum is LHF. Think about this from my perspective for a second: my "defenses" of Bloodb0t mostly involved pointing out that, at the time he was actually LHF. I used this to point out a particular post sussing Bloodb0t that I didn't like because it seemed like it was simply trying to reach that LHF rather than actually get a mafia limmed.

Does the same thing not apply to why you think my suspicion of Calum over Blood isn't warranted? If I'm reading correctly, you believe my reasoning for a Calum wagon is bad, and therefor I am scum with Bloodb0t trying to get the LHF. Does that actually make sense, though? Why do you feel so confident that I am trying to push Calum because he's LHF? Why do you seem to think this is any different than my "defense" of Blood?

I have made my case with regard to you and

BloodB0t

, it's in my ISO and I continue to support it. I can obviously see a universe where

BloodB0t

is town LHF. I am not 100% sure on that scumread. It's just the best I have for today, and given the way Day 1 is going now, it will probably be my best case this Day.

Calum

is, in my humble opinion, far lower hanging fruit though.

Part of why I am so reluctant to scumread him for the obvious is my extensive experience of playing Newbie games with players who had similar levels of activity (and sometimes even replaced out) who were all scumread en masse for it.

BloodB0t

would be a different kind of LHF if he's town - the explanation would be erratic behavior and gameplay issues (I have played with players who genuinely attempt to start discussions like this).

Nonetheless, my approach is not without its flaws. What if we're at ELo ("eliminate or lose") and

Calum

is still alive? This kind of slot, if town, is just perfect for the mafia to have in the game because he's totally mislimmable.

I really don't like it when people use the "too scummy to be scum" argument. Usually that person is just... bad scum.

From what I’ve seen, TSTBS in newbie games is neither a town tell or a scum tell, it’s usually that the person’s scummy behavior isn’t actually scummy, but that person can still be scum.

[T3]

Greeting, why did you immediately townread Moonshot? I didn’t see anything AI in his posting.

[T3]

Either Emollient is scum that subconsciously radiates town vibes, or he received a green role PM.

My best guess for N1 (lim)?

This post is towny - I don’t think that scum would just randomly decide to speculate about the N1 night kill in thread. Doing this suggests that Wayward subconsciously knows he is town.

[T3]

@ Calum No not really, I've used it before.

You say you're new but that doesn't mean you're not scum. You seem kinda off kilter this early, if that's even the right way to describe it.

Are you scum?

@ emollient You've become my newest, and maybe strongest town read.

70 was very good! I sure hope you're on our side!

Alright, we’re on the same page here.

@ emollient You've become my newest, and maybe strongest town read.

70 was very good! I sure hope you're on our side!

What was towny about 70?

What were we on the same page about? If we were, why are you casting shade?

We were on the same page about whether Emollient was town or scum, but I also wanted to know your specific reasoning.

[T3]

KittyTacky

32 = At RVS stage, I usually look for any ping from anyone (even if it's very small or not enough to judge) & move forward with my game from there. This post was on page 2 & enough for me to start scum-hunting early.

98, 101 = Doesn't get much from here to change my thought on him.

99, 100, 102, 129, 193, 194, 250 = NAI

128, 166 = Empty read with no reasoning.

137 = Never mentioned his

Calum/T3

suspicion before but popped in to vote them without giving any reasoning.

152 = One liner reasoning & again not enough + don't understand how 135 is a slip when in 124,

Greeting

said: "

BloodB0t is at E-2 now. If you agree with this read, feel free to jump in, but please announce that you're putting him on E-1.

"

178 =

@Kitty

, why do you find

Greeting's defense of Calum is odd

?

My read:

Scum

I strongly agree with your read on KT as of now. KT’s attack on Calum looked manufactured and his tone is far too serious than I would expect from town!KT.

[T3]

Today I would be willing to vote in [KT, Salsa, Greeting].

[T3]

I did scumread Greeting earlier and I still don’t have much reason to townread him, but I think KT is significantly scummier.

VOTE: KT

[T3]

I did scumread Greeting earlier and I still don’t have much reason to townread him, but I think KT is significantly scummier.

VOTE: KT

Explain your SR on me, aside from low activity which is NAI for me.

I literally explained it like a post before my vote on you. Don’t try to frame it as if I’m scumreading you for low activity, I’m not.

[T3]

We just played a game together, where I was scum and pushing town you. Here there is zero effort to respond to the push and do any actual solving.

[T3]

Also, this isn’t a ‘flashwagon.’

You had one RVS vote left over on you, then Bloodbot and I voted for you just now.

[T3]

I’m not saying that your reads are fake because they have little explanation, I’m saying they’re fake because it looks like you’re trying to get an easy lim of Calum.

[T3]

oh hey I played mafia with atomicpianowitch once on a children’s math forum in 2018

[T3]

KT, do you think that my push on you is scummy?

[T3]

oh hey I played mafia with atomicpianowitch once on a children’s math forum in 2018

Greeting, why did you immediately townread Moonshot? I didn’t see anything AI in his posting.

Because 187 is a very good analysis of the gamestate.

But why is good analysis of the game state towny? Do you think scum are incapable of producing analysis that good?

[T3]

I made a long wall-post on

T3

but got deleted before I can hit submit Don't have the energy to write it down again, so just pointing out the main things from his ISO now:

1. Defending predecessor Calum:

Looks like to me that scum!

T3

approaches by pointing out

Calum

's fault to look like a town.

2. Inconsistent + non-committal reads:

His reads in this game are very confusing and I don't think town!

T3

will be this much confused (based on my meta about his gameplay). Before 248,

T3

was either defending/town reading

wayward

&

Emollient/Moonshot

in one post or shading/scum reading them on the next post which feels inconsistent to me + scum!him didn't want to commit to making a way out for later kind of situation is going on. He did the same thing with his

BloodB0t

read also (243, 265) but don't say where he stand about

BloodB0t

yet.

@T3

, kindly explain your reasoning behind the reads in 248 because I fail to see the progression behind it.

3. Controversial scum reads:

The way he approached scum reading

Greeting

seems forced with ill intentions. From 214, 232 to 238, 289 seems like

T3

is made up his mind about

Greeting

first, then approaches with the narrative. Interesting fact,

T3

is now scum reading

Kitty

who is also scum read by

Greeting

{and town reading

Emollient/Moonshot

(who are also town read by

Greeting

) ~~ just pointing out} which indicates

Greeting/Kitty

scum team. But another interesting fact,

T3

mentioned my name "

[KT, Salsa, Greeting]

" in 296 for D1 elimination while agreeing with my

Kitty

scum case which indicates scum!me made a case on my scum partner (258) + bussing him in 261 when

Kitty

wasn't in danger which doesn't make sense at all.

My read:

Scum

UNVOTE: Kitty

VOTE: T3

I also had a wall prepared for this that I accidentally exited out of

[T3]

The gist of it was:

Why does scum me call attention to Calum’s scummy behavior
I did end up accidentally making a narrative in my head, this is a trap I sometimes fall into as town
My inconsistencies aren’t scummy, I have reasons to believe that WS and Moonshot are scum and town and am reconciling them
I forgot CPB existed

[T3]

Apologies for my absence, unexpected real life things.

Yeah, I had no reason for this vote of course, just making RVSish waves... Now voting me for a reason, so early... that could be something.
UNVOTE: Tejate
VOTE: BloodB0t

This post is towny from Emollient. I’ll say why later.

You didn't (?)

Either Emollient is scum that subconsciously radiates town vibes, or he received a green role PM.

My best guess for N1 (lim)?

This post is towny - I don’t think that scum would just randomly decide to speculate about the N1 night kill in thread. Doing this suggests that Wayward subconsciously knows he is town.

I found the wording here a little odd.
Why would Wayward "subconsciously" know his alignment? I would think the role pm he got would have fixed his alignment firmly in his conscience.

I made a long wall-post on

T3

but got deleted before I can hit submit Don't have the energy to write it down again, so just pointing out the main things from his ISO now:

1. Defending predecessor Calum:

2. Inconsistent + non-committal reads:

3. Controversial scum reads:

1. I agree that this is pretty scummy behaviour.

2. I had pulled out a number of posts to make this point but you did everything needed here already.

3. Don't necessarily agree with this. It's a bit too close to "I don't agree with you so you are scum"

No, I didn’t say why. I’m still not going to.

I guess like… WS was speaking from the point of view of a town member.

[T3]

Yes

[T3]

I am honestly kinda tired of this day. The endless replacements are unfortunate.

I feel like

T3

's push on me is based on a single post that is completely NAI, and his PoE is just literally all the other SEs (excluding

Enchant

). What I noticed about his posts about me is that even when in his mind I did something "towny", he always finds a way to scumread me for it. I have tried to engage with him, but his mind is clearly fixated on me.

Ehh. I agree with some of the points in this post, but the part about Tejate seems like Greetingnis pushing a narrative in order to secure Calum’s vote.

Greeting’s defense of Calum is towny - Calum pretty widely suspected and there’s no reason for Greeting to try to stop the momentum of Calum’s wagon.

I think the reason for

T3

's push is that he most likely sees me as a biggest threat to the mafia team for my commitment to the game.

Now, I don't necessarily townread

KittyTacky

either. But he has shown traces of game analysis, and he scumread

T3

's predecessor. Perhaps I should have listened and considered scum!Calum more. Unfortunately, I have a tendency to look for deepwolves which sometimes unfortunately results in me failing to see what's on the surface.

VOTE: T3

This is E-1. Please state intent to hammer before/if you cast the final vote so

T3

has time to claim if he chooses to do so.

My push on you isn’t based on a single post, it’s based on several.

Scum me doesn’t see you as a threat to the scum team based on high activity,

that’s just not how it works.

The are so many other factors (how correct your reads are, whether you’re a possible lim, etc.)

You townread KT for his game analysis, little as it be, but have nothing to say on my analysis other than “all of it is shallow???”

[T3]

VOTE: Greeting

[T3]

Your reasoning is that he's too scummy to be scum?????

"Too scummy to be scum" is a fallacy, especially in newbie games. Pretty sure he's just scum.

KT is acting very muted which I think is a scumtell for him.

Oh and I just noticed this post, I am also kinda muted as town sometimes.

That’s fair - I do think I did previously scumread you in another game for bringing muted and you were town.

[T3]

I like 345. I was ready to lim Calum before he got replaced. I will hammer T3 depending on claims. D2 I will convince Greeting that I'm town.

I’m VT

[T3]

My push on you isn’t based on a single post, it’s based on several.

Really? Your ISO says something different.

1/2 scum found

23 was the first post by me you quoted and the first where you named me as scum.

Besides, you admitted following the premise yourself here:

You’re right, to be honest. When judging your post there I started with the premise that you were scum and neglected to mention what I liked about the post.

I was referring to you as scum, yes.

This is very scummy shading of KT. A lack of content isn’t something that’s concerning, KT has made 2 posts and hasn’t visited the thread since.

Here you're shading me for questioning

KittyTacky

, whom you're now going after yourself.

These reads are fairly surface-level, which isn’t scummy in of itself, but I also think that town Greeting is certainly capable of deeper reads.

Again, reads from page 4 can't be very deep, which indicates a shallow and lazy analysis.

In my opinion, this looks like you're just looking for any pretext you can to get rid of me. This is not a normal progression of scummy ISO -> scumread, but the scumread was formed before the case came about.

Scum me doesn’t see you as a threat to the scum team based on high activity,

that’s just not how it works.

The are so many other factors (how correct your reads are, whether you’re a possible lim, etc.)

Looks like my reads are pretty good then. If you flip red then your partner is

BloodB0t

whom you consistently defend.

You townread KT for his game analysis, little as it be, but have nothing to say on my analysis other than “all of it is shallow???”

Do you even read my posts?

Now, I don't necessarily townread

KittyTacky

either.

But he has shown traces of game analysis, and he scumread

T3

's predecessor. Perhaps I should have listened and considered scum!Calum more. Unfortunately, I have a tendency to look for deepwolves which sometimes unfortunately results in me failing to see what's on the surface.

YES, I AM SHADING YOU FOR QUESTIONING KT WHOM I AM GOING AFTER NOW. There is

no

reason why town!me does not do that.

[T3]

Yes - I do admit there was one post for which my analysis of it was bad, and that was because at that point I was deep in the tunnel.

[T3]

But my shading of post 23 was something that I thought scummy. You’re twisting my words to try and make it seem like my push on you is completely unfounded and I admit that it was unfounded but I still try to lim you

[T3]

My scumread started with post 23 and has quickly progressed

[T3]

This day is taking way too long. VOTE: T3

It’s been 15 pages and we just got a replacement

[T3]

I was town

[T3]

Maybe tomorrow you should vote someone who’s username starts with greet and ends with ing

[T3]

If the scum team is greeting/salsa I can say “I told you so” but it’s also probably not

[T3]

Im probably horrifically wrong with one of my townreads

[T3]

VOTE: Greeting

I did scumread Greeting earlier and I still don’t have much reason to townread him, but I think KT is significantly scummier.

VOTE: KT

all the votes I made day 1

[T3]

Granted, I did scumread Greeting because Greeting scumread KT.

[T3]

Towards the end of day 1 I was townreading KT more than Salsa though