Newbie 1790 (Game over!)

[schadd_]

ideally you two talk to each other a bit

[NotGonnaLie]

OK then Collapar I'll try and put some questions for you together. Fire away at me in the mean time.

[schadd_]

lul lol

[Umlaut]

Vote Count 4.1 (Unchanged)

Not Voting

(3): Collapsar, NotGonnaLie, schadd_

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-06-07 01:55:00)

Notes:

• Collapsar is V/LA until May 27.

[NotGonnaLie]

Spoiler: Quotes

schadd_ is at three votes surprisingly quickly in under 24 hours since game start. Let's work on this with what we know so far.

Question for schadd_: How do you plan on looking for the scum? What do you think pro-town contributions should look like?

Question for NotGonnaLie: Given the posts that have been made up to this point, how confident are you in your read on schadd_?

Question for schadd_: How do you plan on looking for the scum? What do you think pro-town contributions should look like?

this game has a surprisingly large amount of common habits that one can notice and point out. i have a pretty good memory, and so generally my strategy is to just do a bunch of different stuff to try to fish things out of people and then relate them to one of the many different personalities i've seen. perhaps intuitively, i get better with people i've played with extensively, because i can remember their stuff in particular.

Do you have any early opinions of anybody yet from their responses to you, especially of people on your wagon right now?

Confident enough that I would not be upset if two votes swooped in right now and we started Day 2.

That said, I do think there is more that we can accomplish today. And if he starts actually being towny I am willing to reconsider on him.

I agree on trying to accomplish more today, especially since we haven't heard from everybody yet -- I would especially like Pyra, XnadrojX, and Jak to weigh in on this.

Less a question and more a comment, but going back to the very start of the game I first read Collapsar as slightly scummy because I felt their introductory comments kept the focus of attention along the me and schadd axis that my early push created. They are saying to slow down the process, but ask for people to enter in the conversation specifically "I would especially like Pyra, XnadrojX, and Jak to weigh in on this". Not a majorly alignment indicative thing, but the first thing that caught my eye with regard to Collapsar's play.

[NotGonnaLie]

Spoiler: Bussing?

Let me move on to Jak for a moment. Jak's #21 is particularly lazy given its place in the thread, and his #48 is backed off very quickly in #57 -- if your intent was to put pressure on a lurker with an early vote, and then you weren't getting what you wanted out of this move, why back off given that Pyra hadn't really contributed anything at that time? (Yes, I am aware that Pyra has contributed since then -- but that didn't happen as of #57.) Assuming you had some reason for doing this, why not put your vote on a different lurker, or on schadd_ if you thought there was a case there?

#72 feels very hasty, and contradicts some of the points made in Jak's earlier posts (esp. the mention of "putting pressure on every lurker" wrt. the action/inaction I've seen from Jak on this front).

Overall I am seeing a lot of fluff from Jak, without anything in the way of actual contributions. This needs to change. VOTE: Jak of all Trades

When I wrote about Jak in #77 I honestly wasn't thinking about shaddowez' post at the time, and didn't realize it said most of the same things. My fault for not reading more carefully.

It's good that I have the chance to learn these lessons early, and in my first game This is just a summary, so if I've missed points that you would like me to respond to, I would appreciate your feedback.

Disappointed that Jak is now being replaced as I wanted to hear from him on recent developments, but I will do my best to work on that when his replacement arrives. I will try to process NGL's latest thoughts again (there's a lot to work with there). I will probably comment on it once I've read and understood it, especially if any of RC/Pyra/Jak's slot have a response.

New reads list.

Almost50: scum, medium confidence. I note that I had a weak scumread on A50's predecessor Jak at, I think, medium confidence. Bizarre read on RC has me asking a lot of questions regarding how that mindset was developed (this is a really interesting interaction as well because RC has called A50 "mod-confirmed scum" in #205). In fact, the entire readslist in #255 is super super strange, I'm having a lot of trouble understanding the reads in this post (which are presented with no/little explanation) and the reasoning behind "here's who is scum based on how these wagons would hypothetically develop". I have multiple problems with #255: the total lack of even a weak scumread on anybody, the fact that so many people are strong townreads, or even townreads at all, with so little support, and the response to it in #271.

So, given that list, unless RC developments happen in the near future that move my vote, it looks like I've returned to where I was before.

VOTE: Almost50

The first vote Collapsar placed in the game, relatively early into the game was on Jak/A50. Shaddowez pinged him out and Collapsar used similar content to motivate her vote. Collapsar's vote was on A50 much of Day 1, but then moved to Bio prior to the lynch. On Day 2 they were critical of A50, but much softer, and never indicating they'd vote.

I'm not impressed with Almost50's defence here; it feels like he's trying to deflect things instead of providing a substantial defence. I don't know how I feel about his early claim. Almost50, this might go without saying, but if you are Town and you seriously believe that lynching you right now would lead to a Mafia victory, you should be putting as much effort as possible into convincing people that lynching you is a bad idea. Yes, there is pressure on you at the moment, but I don't think it's a compelling reason to give up. I would also like to know what value you think your defence in #512 has to the Town, and why considering things from this perspective should lead us to believe that you are not in the mafia.

I continue to have trouble sorting Pyra, especially after their #508; a few of the things they are saying seem Town, but a lot of their over-arching behaviour (for example, not having solid opinions on anyone, posting extremely infrequently) suggests possible scum. I feel like on several occasions Pyra is asking questions that don't really go anywhere and, although answered, are never followed up on. Pyra, I am interested in seeing what you do with the response you have received to #508 from schadd_ and what your reads are on each player at this point in the game.

RC, I feel the same way about posting readslists especially knowing that they will change and evolve; if you have preliminary thoughts I think it could be useful even to have that much before your full post is complete. (Although you've already outlined your reads so I at least know what they are.)

[NotGonnaLie]

Let's look at this from another perspective. Given that no one died last night, how likely is it that schadd_ is bulletproof and no one is able to counterclaim? Let's disregard the possibility that for whatever reason the mafia decided not to kill. So, assuming the mafia tried to kill someone last night -- and I can't believe I get to quote this in my very first game of Forum Mafia -- typically, people die if they are killed. So what are all the reasons why someone could have been attacked and not died?

The Mafia member making the kill was in jail last night.
The person who would have been killed is Bulletproof.
The person who was attacked was also healed by the Doctor.

The other big post from Collapsar on Day 2 criticized A50's setup puzzles that he was flailing around with. The specific way option 1 was worded "The Mafia member making the kill was in jail last night" ignores the possibility that the jailkeeper protected someone, possibly prompting the jailkeeper to come in and correct them, and possibly confirming their n1 jail target. They were able to seem to be criticizing A50, but still achieve a similar goal (fishing for the jailor).

[Collapsar]

Let's look at this from another perspective. Given that no one died last night, how likely is it that schadd_ is bulletproof and no one is able to counterclaim? Let's disregard the possibility that for whatever reason the mafia decided not to kill. So, assuming the mafia tried to kill someone last night -- and I can't believe I get to quote this in my very first game of Forum Mafia -- typically, people die if they are killed. So what are all the reasons why someone could have been attacked and not died?

The Mafia member making the kill was in jail last night.
The person who would have been killed is Bulletproof.
The person who was attacked was also healed by the Doctor.

The other big post from Collapsar on Day 2 criticized A50's setup puzzles that he was flailing around with. The specific way option 1 was worded "The Mafia member making the kill was in jail last night" ignores the possibility that the jailkeeper protected someone, possibly prompting the jailkeeper to come in and correct them, and possibly confirming their n1 jail target. They were able to seem to be criticizing A50, but still achieve a similar goal (fishing for the jailor).

You are right that I incorrectly failed to mention this possibility, although at the time I was certainly considering it. I concede that this was an oversight and an honest mistake; I meant to go back and correct it but was caught up with activities, both on- and off-site during Days 2 and 3, and the opportunity had long passed. The attention to detail was spent elsewhere in that post.

Although no one seemed to pick up on this oversight at the time, or did not mention it if they did, this correction could have easily been made by anyone, and not just the jailer. Additionally, at that time the jailer would not necessarily have known whether a kill was stopped (a) if at all, since schadd_ could have been attacked, and (b) by jailing the attacker or by protecting the target. Therefore, failing to provide this option is not sufficient motivation for the jailer (and no one else) to correct this and to confirm who was jailed on Night 1, so this shouldn't be interpreted as rolefishing, as indeed it was not. The combination of events necessary for this hypothetical tactic to pay off would have been unlikely; recall that at the time, we were still unsure whether the setup included a Jailer or a Tracker, and the question under debate was whether schadd_ could have been fakeclaiming. Given the uncertainty surrounding the situation, and the pattern I have repeatedly demonstrated in this game of resolving uncertainty by finding the most likely outcome or sequence of events and, as demonstrated in the same post, by discounting explanations which require multiple unlikely events to occur in combination, to rely on such a gambit would be extremely out of character for me.

[NotGonnaLie]

Yeah I remember that post as really well thought out when I first read it. And I agree it's not certain what kind of reaction the post would have created, but it's sort of a free-roll. It just happens that one omission seems to me to open the best possible outcomes for scum.

You also immediately followed up that post (within the same minute) requesting an updated reads list from Pyra, so maybe you had a jailkeeper read on them at the time and the proximity might have increased the likelihood they respond from a jailkeeper perspective.

[NotGonnaLie]

I meant to go back and correct it but was caught up with activities, both on- and off-site during Days 2 and 3, and the opportunity had long passed.

This reminds me of a few other instances in the game where you mention having a thought but not posting about it. What went through your head where you decided not to include that information?

I had other things here but they were mostly quotes from earlier in the game with minor commentary; it served to get my own thoughts in order and refresh my memory of Day 1 so I've omitted it for now.

Right now, NGL might be the correct vote, and I remember having this thought earlier in the game but not doing anything about it.

[NotGonnaLie]

(...)

I just didn't want the day to end early. As it is I view the day ending as early as it did a victory for mafia. A50 self hammering prevented us from hearing more from Pyra and A50 himself while he was wriggling on the block, it also may have been a way for mafia to frame the people who were off the wagon.

Do you think my behavior day 2 served to derail the lynch of A50, or elevate someone else as a better lynch that day? Do you think day 2 ending prematurely helped mafia or town more?

I've only re-read up to the first post of Day 2, so I'll answer your first part once that has happened. I think Day 2 ending early helped the Mafia more than Town. As I mentioned at the start of Day 3, I didn't get anything I wanted out of Day 2, neither info from Pyra nor more interaction / scumcases from RC.

I think the biggest missed opportunity on Day 2 was not hearing more from A50. We had him wriggling for his life, it was a great opportunity to find some mafia on mafia interactions. It's interesting that you don't mention this in your regrets about Day 2.

[schadd_]

prodge

these are cool ^

[NotGonnaLie]

(...)

On day 2 I feel like both of us had A50 as our top mafia (based on your most recent read list at the time), yet neither of us voted. It's not like I was pushing other wagons at the time,

I just didn't want the day to end early. As it is I view the day ending as early as it did a victory for mafia. A50 self hammering prevented us from hearing more from Pyra and A50 himself while he was wriggling on the block, it also may have been a way for mafia to frame the people who were off the wagon.

Do you think my behavior day 2 served to derail the lynch of A50, or elevate someone else as a better lynch that day? Do you think day 2 ending prematurely helped mafia or town more?

I've only re-read up to the first post of Day 2, so I'll answer your first part once that has happened. I think Day 2 ending early helped the Mafia more than Town. As I mentioned at the start of Day 3, I didn't get anything I wanted out of Day 2, neither info from Pyra nor more interaction / scumcases from RC.

Another thing that kind of weirds me out about post 800 was the selected edited portion (

italicized portion deleted from your post, and readded

). In the middle of a sentence, and with context related to the question at hand. It's almost like you didnt want to have the fact that A50 was your top scum read and someone you didn't vote reported again.

[NotGonnaLie]

I understand some people feel more comfortable building a town circle before or in conjunction with finding scum, but the way you were asking questions on day 3 felt to me much more like you were feeling out potential final 3 scenarios than finding the last scum.

I take it from this that RC is currently a stronger scumread for you than NGL. If this is where you stand, I think I want to hear your case on RC before anything else.

Something about this day feels extremely off to me, but I can't put my finger on exactly what. Every time I think someone is scum, I'm reminded of another piece of evidence that pushes it back the other way. This has happened several times already on Day 3.

Right now I have developed a townread on NGL; schadd_, do you think NGL is likely to be town? Is there anyone else you think looks very town or very scum right now?

We have three people among myself, schadd_ and NGL who think each other are town. Assuming that this is what's going on, the way that the mafia wins this endgame is eliminating two people out of this group, forcing Day 4 to be one out of the three vs. two people who both look like scum. Personally, I like the alternative better of having two people alive on Day 4 who generally trust each other against a third person who they mutually believe is scum. I don't know anything about this style of endgame so I have no idea if this is actually good or something that town generally wins in practice, but it feels like this is the scenario that gives us the best fighting chance.

I thought I was your townread

Same.

I want to think you're town, but too many things are still bothering me about your play, whereas I'm having an easier time seeing NGL as town (although, I continue to be paranoid that NGL could maybe be scum flying under the radar at this point? I feel like I'm not experienced enough to know the answer to that)

It really is between you and shaddowez at least in my head; I'm sorry if you're town and I'm not perceiving you as obvioustown as you think you've been.

[NotGonnaLie]

In post 1042 you claim, "It's been between you(RC) and shaddowez for this entire day", yet over the day I think your lynch list was actually highly variable.

In post 738 you claim "it is still between the three of you(excluding schadd)"

Going further in post 749 you say "Of the three cases that I have right now, shaddowez is actually my weakest one by a non-negligible margin." and "Right now, NGL might be the correct vote"

Even as you do seem to gravitate toward only RC and shaddowez, you still clearly leave me as a possibility in post post 970 and post 999.

[NotGonnaLie]

One of the weirdest things about Day 3 for me was the falling out between RC and Collapsar.

Spoiler: RC lightly questioned Collapsar's towniness

Well fuck I'm starting to doubt my collapsar townread too. life is hard.

I think we need to make Collapsar do stuff atm

I'm pretty confident Collapsar is my top living townread for various super towny posts but I want more from them to be absolutely sure. I've seen scum get gut townread as all fuck before.

uhh

I have some concerns over Collapsar but she's still way more probably town than the other two

Shaddow's yesterday was fucking awful but at the same time I don't like NGL's ISO very much in hindsight and I had a hard gut scumread on him so

I mean I still don't think it's Collapsar

can we just not lynch me then we win regardless of which of them it is?

Spoiler: Collapsar seems to overreact at no longer being "hard townread" and then gets shut down by RC for innacuraccies

Back from V/LA proper, at least until deadline I believe (I am travelling again in a week and a bit). RC has in absolutely no way been cleared; I am actually quite skeptical of the way RC has began to cast doubt on me, apparently coming down from having described me multiple times as a "hard townread". Having seen it pointed out, I do think it's plausible that RC was jailed N1 and shaddowez was jailed N2. However, I'm not going to use this as an assumption; which means it is still between the three of you. (Sorry schadd_, you're out of the equation for now. For reasons I've explained earlier, it's almost certainly not schadd_ at this point.) I have some problems with the way RC's read on me has developed; I have some problems with NGL's passive behaviour; and I have some problems with shaddowez's weird no-lynch attempt on D2 and apparent lack of reads up until now.

You both have strange associations to A50 for me and were instrumental in the lynches.

Hmm, I find this interesting.

Posts where you outright state or allude to Jak/A50 being scum/willing to vote them:

74, 110, 121, 122, 447. 304, 467, 262, 348, 560

Posts where you actually vote Jak/A50:

This gives me an idea; I think this is worth looking into in a more general manner, if for no other reason than to give me an excuse to re-read the entire game.

NO, the exact OPPOSITE happened.

I voted you, Pyra voted you, a bunch of people called your slot scum, I was like oh is this going to be a thing so I actually read your ISO and townread you.

It's the exact opposite of the opportunistic scumread -> back off that you claim. I scumread you when no one else did and I townread you after people started voting you.

Spoiler: Some time passes and Collapsar now finds the paranoia healthy

I'm pretty confident Collapsar is my top living townread for various super towny posts but I want more from them to be absolutely sure. I've seen scum get gut townread as all fuck before.

This sort of healthy paranoia, along with the second guess of who was in jail N2, suggests to me that RC might be town.

I have almost finished re-reading.

Spoiler: But then RC gets kicked out of the townbloc and they butt heads again

I thought I was your townread

Same.

I want to think you're town, but too many things are still bothering me about your play, whereas I'm having an easier time seeing NGL as town (although, I continue to be paranoid that NGL could maybe be scum flying under the radar at this point? I feel like I'm not experienced enough to know the answer to that)

It really is between you and shaddowez at least in my head; I'm sorry if you're town and I'm not perceiving you as obvioustown as you think you've been.

Collapsar is the best lynch because if I lynch Shadowwez and he flips town I get lynched tomorrow. If I lynch Collapsar today I can control the lynch tomorrow or you have to shift your reads in a scummy opportunistic way and hope that schadd and shaddowez don't notice. It's possible that Shaddowez is scum and I could quickhammer the game to a win but that would be a poorly thought out decision.

UNVOTE:

I've officially run out of patience with you and this game.

The difference between your vote and shaddowez's is he actually made the effort to construct a case (however weak I think it is), whereas you, as you've done before, are voting without any explanation.

I was a strong townread for you over most of Day 1 and all of Day 2. Voting for me over some bizarre policy lynch in order to "gain control of the lynch tomorrow" is not making me see you as town, and counterproductive to town's goals if you are town.

What makes you think you know this game better than anybody else, that you don't need anyone's help to get all the scum? You're leading with your ego, you're voting all over the map, and I just don't understand what you are doing any more. You have claimed several times now that you think you have been "extremely obviously town" throughout the game; I beg to differ.

When NGL became my top townread by a series of towny reactions to my posts and Shaddowez did stuff that gave me the gut impression that he was trying to scumhunt.
Also when it felt like you were forcing a NGL/Collapsar/Schadd townblock and throwing me out of it in response to crowd mentality with no discernable explanation for the change in your read on me.
Also when I went back and was like ehh you pushed on scum early but you actually backed off before it actually became a thing that mattered.

My read change is perfectly understandable and I've left a paper trail for it: you basically just heel turned on me because I was no longer treated you as the almighty goddess of towniness.

At no point were you ever anything stronger than a weak townread, if that. It's been between you and shaddowez for this entire day and I think I have made that very clear. And if you

do

manage to get me lynched today, I will die cursing your name, and if you

THEN

turn out to have been town this whole time, which I now highly doubt, I will politely excuse myself from that postgame, probably along with any other games with you in the near future. Maybe I don't understand your style of play or maybe we just aren't compatible, but this has not been a positive experience for me; if this is the kind of townplay I'm going to get then my expectations were way off.

Spoiler: The tension seems to dissipate right before Collapsar follows RC in hammering Shaddowez

Collaps I am here if you want to talk.

You've already answered lots of things today and I really don't want to prolong this, maybe just help me understand your voting pattern? You tend to change your vote pretty rapidly and this might give me some insight.

If your vote on shaddowez is sincere, I'll follow it soon.

EXCELLENT, THANK YOU

#1068-#1070 and especially #1068 is what I've been waiting to hear for a long time

VOTE: Shaddowez

(L-1)

[NotGonnaLie]

This is more of a tone thing, but something I associate with scum. Collapsar seemed really keyed into what in particular was getting them town read or scum read and was highly critical when that wasn't applied reciprocally or changed without notice.

Spoiler: Hey I got scumread for this thing, you should scumread NGL too!

NotGonnaLie: null read, low confidence. Improved from a weak scumread at low confidence. NGL's #51 and #53 are not strong; I note this again even in hindsight of schadd_'s BP claim because I was of this mind during my last readslist and I think this is still valid. #64 in hindsight (saying that I am "asking the questions I think everyone wants to know" and asking for "how people that had been on the sidelines would enter the conversation") feels like the kind of "lazy" post I might be accused of making.

Spoiler: Hey you townread me for this thing before (sortof) you should townread this person too!

p-edit p-edit: For what I believe is the same reason schadd_ townread me after my earlier reads list (actually not quite the same circumstances but it feels similar somehow), I feel better about townreading you after your #747. It seems like openness of reasoning is getting us both pretty far in this game.

Spoiler: But RC I was your top read what happened!

Also tell me at exactly what point I went from being your top townread to someone you are actively threatening

Collapsar is the best lynch because if I lynch Shadowwez and he flips town I get lynched tomorrow. If I lynch Collapsar today I can control the lynch tomorrow or you have to shift your reads in a scummy opportunistic way and hope that schadd and shaddowez don't notice. It's possible that Shaddowez is scum and I could quickhammer the game to a win but that would be a poorly thought out decision.

UNVOTE:

I've officially run out of patience with you and this game.

The difference between your vote and shaddowez's is he actually made the effort to construct a case (however weak I think it is), whereas you, as you've done before, are voting without any explanation.

I was a strong townread for you over most of Day 1 and all of Day 2. Voting for me over some bizarre policy lynch in order to "gain control of the lynch tomorrow" is not making me see you as town, and counterproductive to town's goals if you are town.

What makes you think you know this game better than anybody else, that you don't need anyone's help to get all the scum? You're leading with your ego, you're voting all over the map, and I just don't understand what you are doing any more. You have claimed several times now that you think you have been "extremely obviously town" throughout the game; I beg to differ.

There's a way to make these criticisms that feel like pointing out inconsistencies in logic to catch mafia, but I get a vibe Collapsar was taking it personally which indicates scum to me.

[schadd_]

ngl can you make the case for why it's towny that you haven't voted yet and why it's scummy that collapsar hasn't voted yet

[Collapsar]

I'm back safely from my trip, but...I really need some sleep! I'm preparing my case and plan to post it on Monday. A few things came up over the last week that will need my attention IRL, but I plan to be able to participate more frequently for the rest of Day 4. Sorry about the lack of activity until now, the timing of things didn't work out as intended.

[NotGonnaLie]

ngl can you make the case for why it's towny that you haven't voted yet and why it's scummy that collapsar hasn't voted yet

I don't think the lack of voting is alignment indicative for either of us. I'm always voting for Collapsar here, but I'll wait to place a vote until everyone has spoken their piece.

I assume Collapsar is always voting me, but they could vote now or later as either alignment.

[NotGonnaLie]

I'm back safely from my trip, but...I really need some sleep! I'm preparing my case and plan to post it on Monday. A few things came up over the last week that will need my attention IRL, but I plan to be able to participate more frequently for the rest of Day 4. Sorry about the lack of activity until now, the timing of things didn't work out as intended.

Why do you plan to unveil your case as one monolithic post instead of sharing things as you find them?

[NotGonnaLie]

The sequence of posts after the oops hammer from Collapsar is an unholy level of dumb telling that seems impossible to pull off as a newbie. It was this kind of tone that first caused me to read them town, but I guess this kind of posting is part of their scum plan.

Spoiler: Post Hammer Quotes

That's not L-1 sweetheart, that was a hammer.

Yeah, just saw NGL was voting too and I somehow missed that completely. I should have paid more attention and I will be more careful next time; but I think this outcome was inevitable and this is where my vote would have landed sooner or later (as it did earlier D3).

If for any reason this does go to Day 4 and I die tonight...I suppose I've made my preferences clear, but at this point I honestly wouldn't be able to choose between RC and NGL. I think whatever town ends up alive at the start of Day 4, if it comes to that, is more than capable of figuring it out.

Sorry if I haven't been super pleasant to play with.
I will acknowledge that a lot of this game has been because of shitty circumstances that's nothing to do with how I play and I am much more enjoyable to play with normally
-but-
stylistically this is how I play. I play fast and loose and I do weird things to see how the gamestate reacts and I go really hard to try to manipulate people regardless of my alignment.
I'm probably not playing anymore after this game but if the entire concept of my playing this game by not posting tons of reads and instead sort of just doing things or whatever you would describe my current playstyle as being you are probably better off not playing with me because this is sort of how I play. If it's to do with the 'I WILL MAKE SURE YOU DIE FOR THIS' crap ignore it

I wouldn't say that you've been unpleasant to play with and I'm sorry if I gave that impression earlier. In retrospect now that I understand how you play a bit more clearly, I think I've definitely learned something. I understand that circumstances made things less than ideal for you, and if you do play again under more favourable conditions, I'll make sure to look for you. I got stressed out during this game as well and I definitely let a lot of that out today, but I know what to expect for next time, and hopefully I can learn a bunch from this game and do even better.

Shaddowez you're ahmmered and can verify that yourself. If you're scum please honestly claim so I can stop paying attention to mafia.

Sorry man.

Good luck to town tomorrow. I recommend lynching RC or Collapsar

If this game is actually still going, I am Limited Access from May 22 to May 27

Acknowledged

-- Umlaut

This does potentially put me out of the action for most of Day 4 if I am alive; I can be replaced if that's an issue for whoever is left at that point, but I should be able to have access sporadically during that time.

The first post today kind of shows that same thing. Considering the world where the BP claim is fake, and congratulating me on making this far are not the sort of thing I'd expect for new scum to make, but maybe these little turns of phrase are tools they use to get town read.

I'm around, though slightly limited access this week due to conference travel. I can answer questions if you want; preparing my case will take a bit longer. I expect to have it ready by Monday or Tuesday of next week, depending on how quickly I can catch up with work.

But shows what I know for trying to set up a townblock! That could have cost Town very dearly.

I'm going to assume based on #1087 that, because I'm also not BP, schadd_ is effectively confirmed town in this endgame, since NGL, if holding back a counterclaim for whatever reason, would have opened with a CC and accusation and would now be trying to convince me that schadd_ is mafia instead of the other way around. As it stands, then, this avoids a messy three-way standoff; now it's just a court case.

I have to say it's pretty good that you made it this far, NGL; I don't think I expected this outcome! I'm going to do my best to keep things pleasant and civil to-Day, and give you a really good fight. Look forward to it.

[NotGonnaLie]

Your vote on Bio is still the most clear reason you're mafia:

I wasn't sure about voting up Biochemist today, but this is actually a good opportunity for me to put pressure on him and get some information out of one of my biggest null reads at the moment.

VOTE: Biochemist

This puts Biochemist at Lynch minus one

, so the IC may want to talk about what that means (but I can at least say things like "don't put the final vote on him without giving him a chance to defend himself first").

You put a player to L-1 while he was a null read. YOU HAD ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to vote him other than to "get info". Other people had a scum read on him because of getting a townread on shaddowez "too quickly", but you admit to not even having a clear idea of that piece of evidence:

Interesting night phase, but let's make sure we also talk about the way Biochemist got lynched yesterday.

Why did the people that voted him read his as scummy? The only thing that I see anyone mention is he put shaddowez in a high towniness bracket with insufficient info. Shaddowez hadn't posted much at that point, but what he had posted was pretty good content.

What made people so certain he was the best lynch? And why did the votes come in so quickly and before deadline?

I was under the impression that this was Almost50 "putting shaddowez in a high towniness bracket with insufficient info", not Biochemist. I explained my reasoning for putting pressure on Biochemist; he was a null read and I wanted him to talk. Had I come back before the quickhammer I would have almost certainly unvoted.

"Had I come back before the quickhammer I would have almost certainly unvoted."

HOW DO YOU DO THAT WITH AN L-1 vote?

All this time A-50 was the other main vote wagon.

[Collapsar]

I'm back safely from my trip, but...I really need some sleep! I'm preparing my case and plan to post it on Monday. A few things came up over the last week that will need my attention IRL, but I plan to be able to participate more frequently for the rest of Day 4. Sorry about the lack of activity until now, the timing of things didn't work out as intended.

Why do you plan to unveil your case as one monolithic post instead of sharing things as you find them?

I find it easier to organize my thoughts this way, especially if I need to refer to a large number of posts as part of the argument. Also, I wrote part of my case already on a plane with no Internet access, and it's simpler for me to finish that up and post it.

[Umlaut]

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