Newbie 2050 | The End

[Lunar Martian]

GG. I was confident in volxen but I don't think I would have gotten RayFrost.

[RayFrost]

The goal was to make sure people thought it was one or the other of us.

[AliceK]

The goal was to make sure people thought it was one or the other of us.

I think you would be in trouble if you were lynched, because Tracker was expected to die. That would definitely ping other two. Good job keeping yourself out of poe.

[RayFrost]

By that stage of the game, there was no feasible world where I get lynched by virtue of the fact Lunar was 100% on the Statue / Volxen read (but preferred statue), and Statue was 100% on the Lunar / Ray read (but preferred lunar). Mala wasn't going to look at me with any suspicion, and she wasn't going to live to see the following game day either.

You might've had a better chance of pushing for me if you went deeper than "he had mostly neutral interactions in day 1."

I would've pushed for the "taking a leadership position gives him the freedom to direct momentum and people's attention toward the things he wants. He doesn't talk about [volxen, etc] very often, but he's very willing to react to and interact with [lunar, statue] a lot. He doesn't actively push to follow up any of his questions toward people. Each question is an individual prod and then mostly ignoring the player afterward, which shows he's not really interested in the response. The mafia read on Statue is convenient to his narrative, but the way he talks about it as if he knows what Statue's thinking is strange. Putting thoughts into other people's heads / words in their mouth is an easy way to prime players to read things from your perspective, and it's also very hard to defend against without actually having a sound basis."

[volxen]

Great game all! And thank you Ray for being a great partner and making this game so much fun. Thank you Sirius for modding.

[volxen]

I am also OK with releasing our scum PT.

[volxen]

The goal was to make sure people thought it was one or the other of us.

I think you would be in trouble if you were lynched, because Tracker was expected to die. That would definitely ping other two. Good job keeping yourself out of poe.

As you will see in the scum PT, my plan for day four was going to be to come out and claim that I tracked Ray on night three and that he didn't target anyone. The idea being that FMPOV as tracker, that would confirm that he and Lunar can't be scum together, since neither of them could be the roleblocker. So based on that, I would now believe that Lunar/Alice is the scumteam. It would give me a mechanical reason for me to "easily" abandon my suspicions of Ray, and now focus on Lunar/Alice. The whole idea being that Ray could still be a goon from a mechanical standpoint, but because Lunar was my top scumread, I no longer suspected Ray of being scum.

At the same time, Ray most likely would have continued to push his Statue/Alice scumteam angle. So basically, we would have both been pushing you as scum, but we would have disagreed on whether Lunar or Statue was your partner.

I wasn't sure how you would react here, but FYPOV Statue/Ray would have still been possible since Statue was still not ruled out from being the roleblocker. With my claim you basically would have known that Lunar was town (since he mechanically couldn't be scum with Ray, and it was VERY unlikely that he was partnered with either of Statue or I). My hope that was you would think that Statue/Ray was more likely than Volxen/Ray, and that you would want to eliminate Statue specifically because he would have to be the roleblocker, whereas Ray would only be the goon.

Neither of Ray nor I had any interest in bussing. That was always seen as a last resort that should be avoided if at all possible. In particular, if Ray had gone down, that would also mechanically confirm Lunar as town since Ray would have flipped goon, and Lunar couldn't be the roleblocker. So in that scenario I would have had to nightkill Lunar, and the final three would have been {Volxen, Alice, Statue}. If that had happened, I'm not sure which of you two I would have tried to push as Ray's partner.

Of course, if I had gone down, then Ray could have still pushed the Volxen/Statue scumteam angle. Presumably in that scenario, Ray would have nightkilled you, and the final three would have been {Ray, Lunar, Statue}. But again, bussing was something that both of us wanted to avoid.

[volxen]

I would nightkill a townread player from day one over Krazy.

suuure you would volxen, suuuuure

Nightkilling you was all Ray's idea... I swear!


But in all seriousness, as everyone will see when they read through the scum PT, we came VERY close to nightkilling Mala on night one. That would have happened if you didn't replace in and throw a wrench into our plans . Ironically enough, I had suspicions that Mala was a cop early on on day one, because of that Scooby Doo gif that she posted in the beginning of the game that had the cop in it (I also later found a post of hers where she used the phrase "cop out"). So I thought that Mala made sense as a PR, and Ray just wanted to nightkill her based on her play (he thought that eventually, Mala might become the greatest threat to him). I actually thought that Mala was likely to be either a cop or a mason with Harumi. So it's kind of funny that she ended up being a jailkeeper.

I knew that you would be a problem, Krazy. At best, I thought you probably would have posted a lot and increased the pace of this game, which is good for town and not so good for us. At worst, I considered the possibility that you might have some tells on me (although it's been a while since we've played together, or since I've played in a game that you've modded) or suspect that I was scum. As lunar pointed out, nightkilling you also had the effect of keeping your slot a blank slate, as both of your predecessors had almost no content. Ray and I at least had a sense of where everyone else was at on night one based on their day one play. You would have brought an entirely new perspective into the game. A perspective which I couldn't allow, my friend.

This is also the second time that I, as scum, have correctly read someone as a PR, but not as the correct PR. The first time was in Newbie 1900, where I was scum with Not_Mafia. Auro was a jailkeeper in that game, but I thought that he was a cop on day one and Not_Mafia and I nightkilled him on night one. So the fact that Mala was a jailkeeper but I thought that she was a cop is very ironic.

[volxen]

I would nightkill a townread player from day one over Krazy.

suuure you would volxen, suuuuure

Nightkilling you was all Ray's idea... I swear!


But in all seriousness, as everyone will see when they read through the scum PT, we came VERY close to nightkilling Mala on night one. That would have happened if you didn't replace in and throw a wrench into our plans . Ironically enough, I had suspicions that Mala was a cop early on on day one, because of that Scooby Doo gif that she posted in the beginning of the game that had the cop in it (I also later found a post of hers where she used the phrase "cop out"). So I thought that Mala made sense as a PR, and Ray just wanted to nightkill her based on her play (he thought that eventually, Mala might become the greatest threat to him). I actually thought that Mala was likely to be either a cop or a mason with Harumi. So it's kind of funny that she ended up being a jailkeeper.

I knew that you would be a problem, Krazy. At best, I thought you probably would have posted a lot and increased the pace of this game, which is good for town and not so good for us. At worst, I considered the possibility that you might have some tells on me (although it's been a while since we've played together, or since I've played in a game that you've modded) or suspect that I was scum. As lunar pointed out, nightkilling you also had the effect of keeping your slot a blank slate, as both of your predecessors had almost no content. Ray and I at least had a sense of where everyone else was at on night one based on their day one play. You would have brought an entirely new perspective into the game. A perspective which I couldn't allow, my friend.

This is also the second time that I, as scum, have correctly read someone as a PR, but not as the correct PR. The first time was in Newbie 1900, where I was scum with Not_Mafia. Auro was a jailkeeper in that game, but I thought that he was a cop on day one and Not_Mafia and I nightkilled him on night one. So the fact that Mala was a jailkeeper but I thought that she was a cop is very ironic.

[volxen]

I would nightkill a townread player from day one over Krazy.

suuure you would volxen, suuuuure

Nightkilling you was all Ray's idea... I swear!


But in all seriousness, as everyone will see when they read through the scum PT, we came VERY close to nightkilling Mala on night one. That would have happened if you didn't replace in and throw a wrench into our plans . Ironically enough, I had suspicions that Mala was a cop early on on day one, because of that Scooby Doo gif that she posted in the beginning of the game that had the cop in it (I also later found a post of hers where she used the phrase "cop out"). So I thought that Mala made sense as a PR, and Ray just wanted to nightkill her based on her play (he thought that eventually, Mala might become the greatest threat to him). I actually thought that Mala was likely to be either a cop or a mason with Harumi. So it's kind of funny that she ended up being a jailkeeper.

I knew that you would be a problem, Krazy. At best, I thought you probably would have posted a lot and increased the pace of this game, which is good for town and not so good for us. At worst, I considered the possibility that you might have some tells on me (although it's been a while since we've played together, or since I've played in a game that you've modded) or suspect that I was scum. As lunar pointed out, nightkilling you also had the effect of keeping your slot a blank slate, as both of your predecessors had almost no content. Ray and I at least had a sense of where everyone else was at on night one based on their day one play. You would have brought an entirely new perspective into the game. A perspective which I couldn't allow, my friend.

This is also the second time that I, as scum, have correctly read someone as a PR, but not as the correct PR. The first time was in Newbie 1900, where I was scum with Not_Mafia. Auro was a jailkeeper in that game, but I thought that he was a cop on day one and Not_Mafia and I nightkilled him on night one. So the fact that Mala was a jailkeeper but I thought that she was a cop is very ironic.

And the other ironic thing is, I also fakeclaimed tracker as scum in Newbie 1900.

[Lunar Martian]

I was mocked so much for my SE theory, too

[RayFrost]

It was a fairly good theory, honestly.

I couldn't exactly push for it being reasonable, though. And the less I actively supported you (I could've put way more into backing up your ideas), the easier it was for people to continue to suspect you. Sorry, not sorry.

[Malakittens]

I was mocked so much for my SE theory, too

It would have been a good theory if you didn’t act how you acted coming out of N1. It almost looked like you planted the kill.

—

Gg ya’ll sorry I was a horrible player this game. I was trying to play cautiously with being a PR as I didn’t want to come out too strong, but the activity level killed me. Part of me was wondering if Volx fake claimed knowing that I jailed him and it turns out I was right, but couldn’t pinpoint the partner. I don’t know if I would have suspected ray until late game tbh.

[Lunar Martian]

I was mocked so much for my SE theory, too

It would have been a good theory if you didn’t act how you acted coming out of N1. It almost looked like you planted the kill.

—

Gg ya’ll sorry I was a horrible player this game. I was trying to play cautiously with being a PR as I didn’t want to come out too strong, but the activity level killed me. Part of me was wondering if Volx fake claimed knowing that I jailed him and it turns out I was right, but couldn’t pinpoint the partner. I don’t know if I would have suspected ray until late game tbh.

I mean my play makes sense and was correct. I'm not going to apologize for it.

[Malakittens]

Yes it was correct and made sense, but it was the behavior. I prob would have voted with you as I was hating volx for a bit D1 if you didn’t come out acting very scummy while trying to pry the information

[RayFrost]

The balance for town is to focus on finding mafia without seeming like mafia yourself.

You were doing okay on the "focus on solving the game" bit but were a little too loose with the "seeming town" part of things.

Cooperation and a lil bit more energy into having people understand your point of view can really improve your success, me thinks.

[StatueSurfer]

By that stage of the game, there was no feasible world where I get lynched by virtue of the fact Lunar was 100% on the Statue / Volxen read (but preferred statue), and Statue was 100% on the Lunar / Ray read (but preferred lunar). Mala wasn't going to look at me with any suspicion, and she wasn't going to live to see the following game day either.

You're selling me a

little

short here... it's true I did think Volxen was town, but I definitely wasn't

100%

sold on it. It would've depended on his D4 result (which ended up being completely irrelevant). And honestly if I hadn't been turboed D4 I probably would've pushed you over Lunar (since it was obvious you were buddying Lunar, which only scum would do, while there was still a way, way outside chance that Lunar was town).

Of course even if I had done the smart thing and pushed you over Lunar, there's no chance he would've gone along with it, so the game was pretty much lost by D3.

Who would've thought the game-losing move was not hammering a town player...

I was mocked so much for my SE theory, too

The theory was sound, the problem was that you bungled the execution to the nth degree. You asked a question, then naked-voted MK with no explanation, and despite focusing on SEs never seemed to target Frost at all, which later on only reinforced the idea you were probably scumbuddies. Maybe you did think about him as a suspect, but it was impossible to tell when you're against explaining things on general principle.

It was a fairly good theory, honestly.

I couldn't exactly push for it being reasonable, though. And the less I actively supported you (I could've put way more into backing up your ideas), the easier it was for people to continue to suspect you. Sorry, not sorry.

Kind of funny I got suspicious of you based on an associative read with a townie... I actually caught onto the apparent connection between you and Lunar at the end of D2, but I didn't make an issue out of it because 1) I wanted to see Harumi flipped and 2) I feaed if I was right, I would get NKed.

That Harumi thing was something else entirely... in hindsight it's easy to see a lot of that "scumminess" was just noob mistakes.

The balance for town is to focus on finding mafia without seeming like mafia yourself.

You were doing okay on the "focus on solving the game" bit but were a little too loose with the "seeming town" part of things.

Cooperation and a lil bit more energy into having people understand your point of view can really improve your success, me thinks.

+1, +1, +1, +1

To add to this, by my calculations, the majority of the other townies had at least scumleans on you, um...

literally every single day after you came into the game.

(I can give you the day-by-day breakdown if you want) It would've been

much

easier to accept you as possibly town if you had actually bothered to explain what was going through your mind.

Why were you so sure of your townreads on Frost and Alice anyway?

I'll reiterate a piece of advice I gave you on the first day:

(Just a note if you are town: while I appreciate not changing your style just because someone doesn't like it, if your style as town keeps getting you lynched, maybe it would be worth changing things a little.)

@Malakittens what your logic behind SRing me and Alice at the end?

[RayFrost]

By that stage of the game, there was no feasible world where I get lynched by virtue of the fact Lunar was 100% on the Statue / Volxen read (but preferred statue), and Statue was 100% on the Lunar / Ray read (but preferred lunar). Mala wasn't going to look at me with any suspicion, and she wasn't going to live to see the following game day either.

You're selling me a

little

short here... it's true I did think Volxen was town, but I definitely wasn't

100%

sold on it. It would've depended on his D4 result (which ended up being completely irrelevant). And honestly if I hadn't been turboed D4 I probably would've pushed you over Lunar (since it was obvious you were buddying Lunar, which only scum would do, while there was still a way, way outside chance that Lunar was town).

Of course even if I had done the smart thing and pushed you over Lunar, there's no chance he would've gone along with it, so the game was pretty much lost by D3.

Who would've thought the game-losing move was not hammering a town player...

It was a fairly good theory, honestly.

I couldn't exactly push for it being reasonable, though. And the less I actively supported you (I could've put way more into backing up your ideas), the easier it was for people to continue to suspect you. Sorry, not sorry.

Kind of funny I got suspicious of you based on an associative read with a townie... I actually caught onto the apparent connection between you and Lunar at the end of D2, but I didn't make an issue out of it because 1) I wanted to see Harumi flipped and 2) I feaed if I was right, I would get NKed.

That Harumi thing was something else entirely... in hindsight it's easy to see a lot of that "scumminess" was just noob mistakes.

The main point was that going into day 3, nobody saw me and volxen as being a likely scumteam. People suspected one or the other of us but not both.

This meant that, when it came down to people throwing scumteams around, there could always be a voice on one end of the push saying "we should lynch person Z instead of [our mafia teammate]" even without saying those exact words. You can see it with Volxen's behavior in going "hmm, yes, I could see this lunar + ray team I suppose... vote: lunar."

This was made easier by how much you and lunar antagonized each other. Lunar's lack of transparency versus your desire for full transparency, and the resulting arguments from that, meant you two were primed to go for each other if you thought the lynch was likely to succeed. Alice voicing suspicion of me probably opened you up more to pushing me in Day 4, though it was a little late.

Either the mislynch happens on day 3, and we win because I kill malakittens, or I'm asleep when the vote would've been possible, the no lynch happens, and we get a repeat on the day (because, like I said in a very reasonable way during the game, the no lynch does nothing for town).

Something that might've been a decent tip-off would be the fact that neither Volxen nor myself really tried to defend ourselves against the reads on us. We just pushed who we were pushing. As town, you should

want

people to not suspect you, so even if you think the person arguing that you're mafia is in fact mafia themselves, debunking their arguments allows you to more easily convince other townies to vote with you. Whereas mafia know they're mafia, and you can see that a bit more clearly in hindsight with how we both just took sides on arguments.

[volxen]

@Statue, how would you have reacted to me claiming that I tracked Ray on night three and that he didn't target anyone? That was my plan for day four, so that I could focus on pushing Lunar/Alice as the scumteam.

[StatueSurfer]

@Statue, how would you have reacted to me claiming that I tracked Ray on night three and that he didn't target anyone? That was my plan for day four, so that I could focus on pushing Lunar/Alice as the scumteam.

Well... I'd like to say with 100% confidence I'd push Frost there (since again only scum buddy people), but I don't really know... could've choked and gone Lunar/Alice, but we'll never know now.

I would've considered you confirmed town though, since I figured that scum!you would fake a guilty on someone for an easy miselim, although Frost's flip would've probably changed that.

[volxen]

I will say, in the end everyone was at least suspicious of one Mafia. It was interesting how Mala and Lunar were both convinced that Ray was town, but they were both suspicious of me and thought that a Volxen/Statue scumteam made sense. Whereas, Alice and Statue were both townreading me and thought that a Lunar/Ray scumteam made sense. But the focus, primarily, seemed to be that at least one of {Lunar, Statue} "had" to be scum. Lunar and Statue were at the forefront of the game, whereas Ray and I were more in the background.


I agree with Ray, I think that a key part of our play was just making it seem very unlikely that we were scum together, because we were both pushing very different things. Ray was a "consensus" townread for a while, but I never tried to attain that status, and towards the end of the game neither of us were widely townread and we didn't try to change that. And while Ray and I coordinated on certain things, we both for the most part made our own decisions on how we played, what we pushed, etc., so everything just sort of happened organically. For example, I didn't know that Ray was going to hard defend Lunar and push Harumi on day two until he started doing that. On day three, the game just sort of naturally evolved into a Lunar vs Statue dynamic, and it ended up working out well for us that we both continued to take opposite stances on Lunar and Statue.

[PenguinPower]