Newbie 2053 | Primroses | Game Over

[Nahdia]

Vote Count 2.03

Enchant (2):

Cook, Foxxi

Cook (1):

Battle Mage,

endlessdark

Battle Mage (1):

endlessdark

, Amélie

endlessdark (1):

Cookie Monster

Not Voting (2):

Foxxi

, Enchant, endlessdark

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-02-19 19:45:00)

, at which point we will default to no elimination.

With seven players alive, it takes

four

to reach majority.

Note:

Amélie replaces Lunar Martian.

[Enchant]

I had like three games there. On first i was mafia and won.

Now i get targeted by pissed town on first day, like allways. So yes, i have reason to suspect, when town want kill me. And yes, i still think hammer worth it.

Anyway, i claim Vanilla Townie. Obvious.

Right now my reads changed for a bit, because of semiactive lurking of Cookie after helpful notes.
Cookie, do you still.stick on Endless? How you think about my elumination?

[Battle Mage]

UNVOTE: Cook
I need to think about this some more. I am torn between Cook and BM.

enlessdark:

... I dunno. It depends how many expireince he have in mafia at all. Atleast, assuming first votes like "not partner" is actually not good and expected only from someone, who playing first time or so.

I think he is newbie-town, but he actually knows termins very good, while i still learning them, but. Pushing BM after this hammer is really indicative he is Townie. Why? Well, i would scream "Enchant+Endlessdark" if i would't be Enchant self. I see no motivation for him as Mafia to go fight with BM (Expirenced player), instead of supporting push on me, which is certanly easy. Of course, this is possible BM and him is just mafia members, and this push is just to confirm like they are not partners. BM would coach him in private, and this could explain his knowledge in termins, but low knowledge about game. I find this unlikely though, as this is too risky. I need think about it more.

I know the terminology because I've played a lot of mafia in real life and on chats. I am new to forum mafia, though.

Now onto my reads. Take with a grain of salt - I know none of your metas

Cook:

Analysis: If I understand correctly Cook is a new player; and simply may not understand the weight of importance a town member holds, leading to him not considering that just accepting an elimination as town is bad for us. I currently suspect he is town and will not vote for him.

Result: Lean-town

Your understanding of Cook is incorrect. Cook is a new, but good and capable player, who just completed a game with me where he played an influential role in town winning. Newbie 2052 if you're interested - the contrast between Cook-town there (active and fully immersed), and Cook here (low impact) is stark.

Battle Mage:

Analysis: By far the most active and participating player and the one I am finding the hardest to settle on an opinion of. On one hand I like the feel of his posts, and the fact he has given opinions and reads - because this helps to create connections that can be reviewed later.

On the other I do not like the push on Cook. I don’t know BM but as I understand it he is a veteran player and I find it somewhat odd that he would be voting on Cook.

Result: Neutral / lean-town

Now you understand my push on Cook, does that change your read on me?

[endlessdark]

Cook is more active on site lobby chat than in this game.

[Battle Mage]

UNVOTE: Cook
I need to think about this some more. I am torn between Cook and BM.

grateful if you can also take a skim of newbie 2052 and let me know what you think?

[Battle Mage]

Alright. First of all, hello! I'm going to admit it's a bit strange to be filling the body of another player - something I have never done before. I am not new to mafia as a game, but I am new to playing here on these forums. With that in mind - I have figured out most of the changes in terminology except I am uncertain on "townblock". Is this the same thing as "towncore" - a group of accepted and considered "confirmed" town?

I am compiling my own reads on everyone - but it is almost 1am and I have to be in bed; so I will return tomorrow with them.

Yes it is the same.

my definition is not quite the same. townblock is more of a functional arrangement where a group of players who generally consider each other town co-operate as a voting-block to offset the co-ordination ability of the mafia team. people in a townblock do not always consider each other "confirmed" town, and the existence of a voting block creates a new dynamic which is useful for sorting alignments. it works better in slightly bigger games and can be surprisingly impactful!

[Battle Mage]

I am on board with Enchant's play being scummy, BUT having played a couple games with them, this does feel much more reminiscent of their town-game than their scum-game. Unnecessarily salty and defensive. Head says scum, heart says town.

[Cook]

BM, who do you think is best candidates for a town block right now, and, if so, who should you want to block on to?

[Cookie Monster]

I had like three games there. On first i was mafia and won.

Now i get targeted by pissed town on first day, like allways. So yes, i have reason to suspect, when town want kill me. And yes, i still think hammer worth it.

Anyway, i claim Vanilla Townie. Obvious.

Right now my reads changed for a bit, because of semiactive lurking of Cookie after helpful notes.
Cookie, do you still.stick on Endless? How you think about my elumination?

I’m not interested in eliminating you I would prefer to eliminate endless as I scum read them the most and even if they aren’t scum then I think they would be the flip TV at would help me sort more players out

[endlessdark]

Enchant, Cook, and BM are the players who have 2 or more foses on them, I suggest sticking to those players when voting. There's a bit more than 2 days left and we should narrow down our choices.

VOTE: Cook
I am going to re-vote this. He clearly doesn't care about the outcome of the game and while that's not strictly alignment indicative, it's very anti town. I looked over Newbie 5052 game and he's certainly capable of playing properly.

On another topic -- is it normal for so many players to be replaced? It's hard to follow the game when half of the players have been replaced and you need to restart to the context in which you read them.

[Amélie]

Good morning! This game caught my attention a couple days ago and I'm happy to get a chance to be in it. I'm not caught up but before I get into my normal post by post analysis, I would like to say that I support this Cook wagon and I believe Cook is scum. I won't vote yet for the sake of not ending the day too early but that is where my reads lie currently. I'll be back with more content heavy posts after work.

[Amélie]

UNVOTE:

[Cookie Monster]

Welcome Amelie

So I’m going to read over Cooks ISO because as much as I would like to eliminate endless I guess it won’t be happening

[Cook]

VOTE:

Cook

ie Monster

There can only be one.

[Foxxi]

I took a peek at the suggested game, and I can see what you are getting at BM. Are you suspecting Cook is trying to play off not caring about an elimination to buy town points then?

And Cook, what do you have to say about the argument BM is making regarding how quiet you have been in comparison to your previous game?

[Cook]

I took a peek at the suggested game, and I can see what you are getting at BM. Are you suspecting Cook is trying to play off not caring about an elimination to buy town points then?

And Cook, what do you have to say about the argument BM is making regarding how quiet you have been in comparison to your previous game?

I believe it's entirely a justified argument, however, I'd like to point out I was a Doc in that previous game, and therefore was informed slightly of the setup, had a use in actively fighting the scum team besides dayplay (which, I'd argue, is much more powerful of a motivator to play a game – having something that the other players don't), which is definitely not my strong suit, and also consequentially had a reason to play much more.

[Amélie]

VOTE: endlessdark
Endlessdark seem intimidating.

Out of all of the RVS posts, this one stuck out because the vote came with reasoning that just doesn't make sense to me but it could just be some joke that I didn't understand.

Anyone else on prism bandwagon?? Only need 2 more to depart!

This is quite rushed. It is page 2 and you are rushing an elimination and I find that to be a big problem.

there wasn't a legitimate alignment-indicative reason for lurking in the first place.

You should perhaps consider this option a bit more heavily.

You know exactly why I am avoiding the thread and why I take issue with it, but I cannot explain beyond what I just said via the ruleset, and you know this and are exploiting it.

I think this is probably true. What I'm not sure of yet is whether this is alignment indicative or simply highlight's overaggression in BM's playstyle.

not moving my random vote atm even though you're tempting.

I agree with BM that this is interesting though. Care to elaborate on the reluctance to move your vote Prism?

I don't like going too far into my predecessor and their posts' analysis but I think Wuwei and Battle Mage both have very townie responses to her. Battle Mage is quite confident she is scum over some fairly small reasons which I find comes from town more because scum are more likely to try to find stronger reasons. Wuwei has a very natural town thought process that flows with his thoughts.

VOTE: qspaces

i like this

I think I see a pattern in the posts that I am finding scummy. WhemeStar is catching my attention a lot.

Town: Battle Mage,
Wu Wei
Null: Qspaces
Scum: Whemestar

[endlessdark]

WhemeStar was lynched, silly.

[endlessdark]

Sorry, killed*

[endlessdark]

WhemeStar has been killed during Night 1. He was a

town mason

.

.

[endlessdark]

I took a peek at the suggested game, and I can see what you are getting at BM. Are you suspecting Cook is trying to play off not caring about an elimination to buy town points then?

And Cook, what do you have to say about the argument BM is making regarding how quiet you have been in comparison to your previous game?

I believe it's entirely a justified argument, however, I'd like to point out I was a Doc in that previous game, and therefore was informed slightly of the setup, had a use in actively fighting the scum team besides dayplay (which, I'd argue, is much more powerful of a motivator to play a game – having something that the other players don't), which is definitely not my strong suit, and also consequentially had a reason to play much more.

Not buying this. Doc might help motivate you, but the difference between the two games is too much. There was no effort this game at all from you to help town. Hell, your last vote was completely random.

[Amélie]

I have vacation soon, so I have more time so again for not saying anything!
For now I don't really have amazing thoughts, but I can see why people think a mafia will most likely be silent but on the other hand I think mafia is smart enough of not staying totally silent. I do get why saying things now is pretty important because we don't have anything to really look at but I can see why town would be lurking in this game right now (as I kinda did woops) so I don't think being silent corresponds to being sus and I do see reasons to lurk as town as "Just saying something" is not that easy? (at least for me I guess.) Because I at least want to make a post semi-meaningful and I find it a bit hard to call out suspicious things (I don't want to hide and say oh Im a newbie so I'm not gonna post though). For now I could see why the posts of Prism were a bit aggressive-ish, so I agree with Battle Mage and Wu Wei there but hey Prism will be replaced right?

I personally believe that how quiet a person is will not change with alignment because it depends on the person. A quiet person is going to be quiet regardless of their role pm and a noisy person is going to be loud every game as well.

I know it's question not for me. But...

Right now it was most silentive game in my history.

I agree this game is moving slowly but I haven't seen you make an effort to change that if you find that a problem.

UNVOTE: Prism

I've been jumping back and forth in my head whether Prism's behavior was scummy, but at this point I feel like it's neutral rather than scummy. You can tell that they were frustrated (especially after being replaced) which, while it produced posts that aren't helpful, does not indicate alignment so I'll unvote.

I'll update my vote soon, I'm still thinking who the optimal vote is given what we know.

I like this post from endlessdark. I'm not entirely sure if it says anything about alignment yet but I am leaning town for now.

I have vacation soon, so I have more time so again for not saying anything!
For now I don't really have amazing thoughts, but I can see why people think a mafia will most likely be silent but on the other hand I think mafia is smart enough of not staying totally silent. I do get why saying things now is pretty important because we don't have anything to really look at but I can see why town would be lurking in this game right now (as I kinda did woops) so I don't think being silent corresponds to being sus and I do see reasons to lurk as town as "Just saying something" is not that easy? (at least for me I guess.) Because I at least want to make a post semi-meaningful and I find it a bit hard to call out suspicious things (I don't want to hide and say oh Im a newbie so I'm not gonna post though). For now I could see why the posts of Prism were a bit aggressive-ish, so I agree with Battle Mage and Wu Wei there but hey Prism will be replaced right?

I agree that mafia should be smart enough not to be silent. What I think is more indicative of maf alignment is behavior that looks like it's not silent, but does not actually move the game forward (no useful inferences, meaningful votes (e.g. voting somebody who actually might be eliminated), intriguing questions).

I just scrolled through the game pages and I feel like Cook and Qspaces fit this description the best. Cook possibly even more so. I'm alright with either vote so I'll be voting Qspaces with a possible change to Cook if others see his behavior as potentially scummy. I know relying on others is not necessarily ideal, but I'm still getting the hang of what makes somebody mafia in this format.

VOTE: Qspaces

This however, I did not like that much. I haven't talked much about my Cook scumread but I do think Cook is scum and this post makes endless darkness look like they are indirectly defending cook but voting a counterwagon.

I should clarify: I voted Qspaces over Cook because others are voting them as well right now. I don't want to waste my vote on Cook if I'm the only one scumreading them.

This clarification only makes me feel like they were overly self conscious about their Qspace vote so they decided to post this.

I should clarify: I voted Qspaces over Cook because others are voting them as well right now. I don't want to waste my vote on Cook if I'm the only one scumreading them.

Thanks for the clarification.

But now I have a dilemma because this is just such a strange way to reply to a scumread and I have a lot of trouble understanding it.

some thoughts:

On balance, Wu Wei is probably the towniest player. I don't necessarily think he stands his ground as strongly as he did, as scum, especially after Prism repped out. Seems a relatively high-risk, low-reward play as scum anyway (just put them in the spotlight, no chance to buddy someone, not really protecting anyone).
Endlessdark is basically in the same place as me on suspects.
Enchant is quiet but that's more their town meta than scum meta.
Dew feels fairly genuine.
Cook is very quiet here, wouldn't be surprised if he was scum.
I'm very wary of the 2 other SE slots (Wheme and Lunar) - their interaction doesn't make a lot of sense and stands out.

So I'm gonna say 2 scum within: Wheme, Lunar, Cook and Qspaces

This is very close to what my readslist will look like and I will go ahead and say Battle Mage is town for this list.

Woops did my message twice. Also lunar do you have a reason for voting me except for the wagon?

Just how. Did you copypaste it?

Don't put people on E-1, unless you want them dead.

This is an interesting point. I'm not sure it means anything but I think I see this coming from an observational townie more often than not.

If it's a C&P, then it was copied from somewhere. Dew doesn't strike me as the type to keep a notes PT or to take notes in their role PM. The one thing keeping me from being dead-set on it being copied from a mafia PT is that I feel the vote itself would be included in the C&P and that wasn't posted twice. It's not that big a deal for me, not nearly as much as the inactivity and reappearing the moment her wagon reached E-2 to push the competing wagon to E-1.

I still find Wu Wei very townie. Their thought process flows very naturally and I find myself agreeing with most of what they say.

Anyone fine with a lunar wagon

I still really dislike Whemestar

Town: Battle Mage, Wu Wei, Enchant
Null: Qspaces, Dew
Scum: Whemestar, endlessdark

[Amélie]

WhemeStar was lynched, silly.

I wasn't aware of this but I've just noted this.

[Amélie]

I'm going to stop there for now but currently I think Battle Mage is showing a healthy amount of town paranoia. Enchant does not seem to be working an agenda which I take as a sign that they are town. And Wu Wei has a very natural thought process that I understand and agree with.
Those are my strongest townreads.

Qspaces is very confusing. Their response to scum reads is very strange and I am unsure of how to interpret that.
Dew has done a lot of posts full of excuses on why they are not posting but I don't think that has to be scum which is why I've left it in my null category.

WhemeStar is dead so disregard my scum read there. Endless dark I felt had a big possibility of being scum with Cook but of course that completely depends on what alignment Cook is which we do not know.

My Cook scum read is difficult to explain but I feel like he has been not very present and all of his posts feel really fake. I don't personally believe he enjoys being scum because each of his posts feel like a lie and he seems to be having a bad time.

[Enchant]

WhemeStar was lynched, silly.

I wasn't aware of this but I've just noted this.

Star died at night. What lynch?