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Copper is so good as scum that he can fake claim and win against a legit cc.
I find it hard to believe you would so casually hand out such a town read for skilled scum.
Unless he's you're buddy, which would make sense but also build public association between you, which I'd hope you'd want to avoid if you ARE scum with him.
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Post #298 (isolation #1) » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:05 pm
Postby House »
In post 242, Titus wrote:Ok, well I'm only voting Thor, Desmond or Ness. So if you're not voting Thor, it's best we figure out which one of Desmond/Ness is scum. Until then, I'm going to be on Thor even if no one else understands.
In regular queues, I wouldn't care, but we're not in a regular queue.
The IC is not going to die d1. He has two buddies, if he's scum. Hunt them and lynch one of them.
As the IC, Thor is required to give accurate guidance to the newbies the best of his ability, regardless of win con. Nobody else in this game has that obligation.
Let the newbies learn from the IC how to play the game before stringing him up.
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Post #299 (isolation #2) » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:13 pm
Postby House »
In post 260, Titus wrote:
Blah blah blah. There is no more useful information to be obtained. Thor is scum. His partner is
one of
Des/Ness.
That's it.
Scum slip...
There are three scum. Titus is pointing her finger at two and saying that's it because she has two scum buddies (and no, not the two she's accusing... though it doesn't clear them because Titus drives a bus like a NASCAR driver.)
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Post #302 (isolation #4) » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:23 pm
Postby House »
In post 293, Nahdia wrote:I'd really rather just vote Root and pray one of you gets nightkilled.
Wrong.
Scum loves noise because it makes it easy to hide.
AFAIC, optimal play would be to lynch Titus to squelch the noise because the wall wars are incredibly distracting. It's not going to make the game any easier to play as it continues day after day.
VOTE: Titus
Titus, kill the walls and hunt other scum for d1 or swing.
Thor is definitely an option to me in the future, but not D1 for reasons already stated.
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Post #312 (isolation #6) » Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:08 pm
Postby House »
In post 305, Percifrax wrote:
That could explain all of that pretty well... Titus is certainly doing a good job of making noise about herself, but I assumed that it was just how she is in general.
Although scum loves noise, they're generally not the ones that make it because it draws too much attention to themselves (especially in the newbie queue).
That said, it doesn't mean chatty players can't be scum, because there are those that deliberately post an ocean of nonsense or intentionally misdirect in order to sow confusion, which is typically a veteran scum strat.
My point in saying that was not that I believe Titus to be scum (though I wouldn't rule it out), I was merely explaining why scum would not be likely to NK her.
In post 37, Titus wrote:I actually agree with your townreads. Perc should be in there too though. Both Perc and Charloux strike the same noob "am I doing this right" tone.
Ness, reads aren't certain at this stage. It's just what people think is happening. By pressuring scumreads, that serves as a way to confirm or dispel suspicions.
This combined with the prior post doesn't feel purely random.
In post 98, Titus wrote:And that's not a great explanation of tunneling.
Tunneling = Voting someone until they are in the grave. That's what I'm doing to you, barring some really weird happening.
Algae disagrees with your theory on how to play the game. You just said you think the vote is a weapon, which is the right approach. I don't see scum advocating for a no lynch against the will of the IC.
In post 205, Titus wrote:Yeah Copper and Percifrax still obvious town.
@Root, Engage me here please. Hi. I have lovely eyes. Stare into my soul.
In post 220, Titus wrote:Yeah, the whole Charl not pushing shit is absolutely ridiculous. You're literally engaging him over his disagreement on that point. Given there's no valid substance to your Charl is not being vocal enough, the only reason left is because he disagrees with you. You can't "case" a player for not being vocal enough right when they are making comments about RVS being bad. He's majorly wrong but it's not scummy.
In post 225, Titus wrote:@Copper, Everyone unvotes on subbing in unless lylo. That's a null tell.
Nah, the Algae wagon is bad. It's not an informed perspective to take. Algae questioned site meta and got wagoned for it. Algae's comment is stupid null. It benefits neither side to make that comment in any way.
I protect people I feel are on my side. That's a given in my personality.
I don't see anyone telling me how to play but you.
In post 244, Titus wrote:Nope. There's nothing more to it beyond PoE. Everyone else I'm townreading. Desmond and Ness haven't posted anything.
In post 245, Titus wrote:Gun to my head, I would take Ness because Desmond's thing was kinda townie and Ness bitching about how people can form reads is kinda uck but I don't think either have posted enough for a major impressive read.
In post 248, Titus wrote:@Root/Person Really, scum are too much of an asset to lynch? When Thor has done zero scumhunting or sorting?
That's not what I said. What I'm trying to say is that you're so focused on defending yourself and pushing so hard against Thor, and Root is actively getting useful information from other players right now. My bet is that he'll continue to do this, especially while defending himself. If I'm wrong and he's town, the longer he lasts the better because he's very useful to the town currently. If I'm right and he's scum, then perhaps he'll bring up something useful to us later on in his defense. Again, I'm leaning town on him from his tactics alone, but I got a scum read from Charl so I'm not forgetting that while reading Root.
Blah blah blah. There is no more useful information to be obtained. Thor is scum. His partner is one of Des/Ness. That's it.
Second there is no such thing as a townie or scummy tactic. It's all about the motivation.
Let's suppose (although I disagree) that Algae is scum. The only way for that to make sense is to argue that algae flopped positions on lynching based on the wagons. Why else would they change their mind? Who got wagoned between those votes? Thor again.
All roads lead to Thor scum.
No readings that you can't back out of in a single post, and your only case is against Thor.
There is no defense for your town reads, which makes it quite simple for you to flip those reads with minimal justification.
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Post #332 (isolation #15) » Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:19 pm
Postby House »
I see what you were trying to do by pushing your role onto me.
I'm going to reread the game now from your perspective. If it checks out, I'm willing to assume Titus town.
I can tell you now though that I'm not willing to dismiss copper being scum nearly as easy as you. I've seen what he's capable of as scum first hand. Dude is scary good.
In post 332, House wrote:I see what you were trying to do by pushing your role onto me.
I'm going to reread the game now from your perspective. If it checks out, I'm willing to assume Titus town.
I can tell you now though that I'm not willing to dismiss copper being scum nearly as easy as you. I've seen what he's capable of as scum first hand. Dude is scary good.
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Post #337 (isolation #18) » Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:56 pm
Postby House »
Try actually reading it.
You posted three minutes after I put the link up. There is no way you have that game half a glance.
I don't have to read it all again, because I experienced the glory of his scum skill first hand. If you truly are interested in his chops, I suggest you read the game.
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Post #339 (isolation #19) » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:09 pm
Postby House »
Copper built up so much towncred in that game that he fakeclaimed doc, got cc'ed, and got the real doc lynched.
Sure, he swung the next day, but it was a calculated maneuver to get rid of another threat that justified sacrificing one of our team to protect the rest.
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Post #342 (isolation #21) » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:13 pm
Postby House »
In post 330, Titus wrote:2.) Percifrax - #11 starts with the newb town tone read. I've got some reads forming, but I dunno if they are right. #14, He's trying to understand thought processes here. Why did one player do this over that particular wagon? -- I would go through the rest of his ISO in detail but it all is the same tone. You can see the gears turning in his thread. If only I could fucking get him to see Thor is a hollow shell. He had it before, but not now. He starts to dismiss it in 252 as just how Thor plays. That's based on Thor's own self meta. I've been saying Thor isn't that way at all though. Yet, just because Percifrax is wrong doesn't make him scum in the slightest.
3.) Titus - Town Jailkeeper, frustrated to death Day 1.
5.) Desmond_13 * House - VT claim at the start. Scum don't box themselves in like that usually.
Fine with these reads so far, still looking over the game.
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Post #348 (isolation #23) » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:25 pm
Postby House »
In post 13, Nahdia wrote:And my vote on Desmond was not entirely random.
I'm looking forward to an answer on why her vote was not entirely random considering Des hasn't even posted yet, and I also wonder why nobody else was curious about that.
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Post #351 (isolation #26) » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:40 pm
Postby House »
Titus, you're basing your reads on Nahdia and Char largely on the fact they agree with your own reads, which is dangerous territory and makes you incredibly susceptible to budding.
I like Thor for town, since i think Scum tend to be more passive rather than aggressive; But he should really chill a bit...
Copper is a scumlean for me, but it's likely just me since i am usually scumreading those who change their votes once every 2/3 posts; And his short dialog with Titus should be remember for when we see some flips.
Everybody else is null for me now.
Doesn't look like Char agreed with your Thor read at all.
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Post #354 (isolation #29) » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:47 pm
Postby House »
In post 153, Charloux wrote:I play for fun. I didn't have any problems in my prior games since i made some sort of balance. VOTE: Thor for being a Jerk and clouding the game with his negative emotions and actions.
This doesn't look like a vote for an actual scum read, he's lashing out at someone for being a jerk.
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Post #355 (isolation #30) » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:52 pm
Postby House »
If I had to pick a scum team right now, I'd go with Titus & Nahdia.
Titus' reads aren't all terrible, but they look calculated to be sellable at a glance with some effort to cover for a possible teammate that is having trouble with learning how to scum.
In post 355, House wrote:If I had to pick a scum team right now, I'd go with Titus & Nahdia.
Titus' reads aren't all terrible, but they look calculated to be sellable at a glance with some effort to cover for a possible teammate that is having trouble with learning how to scum.
In post 364, House wrote:Scum have more motivation to appear helpful than town, especially in newbie games where new players can be swayed by such helpfulness.
I agree, that's why I am re-evaluating the read now that I have very likely new info. from Titus, but it's not that easy to fake exactly the right tone.
Scum copper doesn't cast doubt on his teammates, if you want to use my meta.
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Post #373 (isolation #41) » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:14 pm
Postby House »
In post 372, copper223 wrote:@House
Anyway I get the paranoia and your vote on Nahdia is going to help me read the game regardless, but I'd like a review of the rest of the players as well (if you haven't said everything that jumped out to you already).
My reads are heavily based on Titus' reads, with the exceptions/disagreements explained over the past two pages.
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Post #399 (isolation #44) » Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:25 am
Postby House »
In post 382, Nahdia wrote:House I'm no stranger to playing scum. If you wanna dive, go ahead:
Why should I dive when you won't? Sounds kinda hypocritical.
This is the first post you've made with any actual content in it, and as I predicted, you latched onto the answer that was provided for you. Not that it couldn't have been the truth, that is just why I find it poor play when one person answers a question that is directed at another.
You've done absolutely nothing to alleviate my suspicions of you, and your first response to me being so Wallis when everything else you've posted has been fifty words or less tells me that I'm on the right track.
I see what you were trying to do by pushing your role onto me.
I'm going to reread the game now from your perspective. If it checks out, I'm willing to assume Titus town.
I can tell you now though that I'm not willing to dismiss copper being scum nearly as easy as you. I've seen what he's capable of as scum first hand. Dude is scary good.
Anyone that supposedly missed Titus' claim should have caught that in my post and knew they missed something important, so I'm not buying your flailing.
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Post #438 (isolation #56) » Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:59 am
Postby House »
In post 428, Nahdia wrote:like. ur doing that thign where u see a situation and u draw in ur head one explanation for a sea of billions of possible explanations for the event. and the one u drew ends in them being scum and now ur acting like that's the only possibility and ignoring every other potential explanation.
that's what ur doing. that's u. it's bad. u should stop doin' that thing.
Look how long it took you to offer anything even remotely viable to an alternative to my theory.
And I even shot that down by posting two examples of where nobody could have missed that there had been a claim if they were paying any attention to the game at all.
That's scum as shit, posting a big ass wall at the first suspicion that gets thrown your way and then trying to lean on skimming after your flailing fails.
If you want to look town, try catching scum instead of dedicating 100 posts to how I'm so bad at mafia for suspecting the oh so mighty Nahdia that has never been lynched as scum, because you're not convincing me with this garbage.
In post 396, House wrote:And you're still claiming she's scum....
That is also correct,
In post 396, House wrote:I'm all for giving ICs time to IC before stringing them up, but dude you're Smurfing doing it wrong.
What am I doing wrong exactly?
Because judging by your two pages with Nahdia, it's a belief I didn't see her claim.
Which...y'know, considering I unvoted her in the very first post I made after her claim....well, okay, maybe I didn't see her claim and decided to unvote for some random unstated reason...but, I kinda doubt it.
Also, un-CCed is a long ways from being confirmed town, but, I do agree with you as a mechanics based concept, despite my read, i don't support lynching her today. Which, oddly, appears supported by me unvoting her.
So - what am I doing wrong?
Wow.
1) Continuing to push an uncountered claim is poor play regardless of alignment.
2) Newbies can be forgiven for missing the claim, but anyone with any experience at all would have picked up on the fact there had been a claim in the following posts... posts I've recently quoted.
3) Why defend your push on Titus and point out your unvote of her, when the fact remains you continued to push her as scum AFTER your unvote?
In post 444, House wrote:1) Continuing to push an uncountered claim is poor play regardless of alignment.
2) Newbies can be forgiven for missing the claim, but anyone with any experience at all would have picked up on the fact there had been a claim in the following posts... posts I've recently quoted.
3) Why defend your push on Titus and point out your unvote of her, when the fact remains you continued to push her as scum AFTER your unvote?
1. I disagree, but if you find it non-alignment indicative the worst you can suggest is that it is anti-town, as opposed to pro-scum, and at that stage it's a playstyle debate - are you voting me over a playstyle debate?
2. At what point did I say I was unaware of the claim? What evidence do you have for me ignoring the claim considering iI unvoted the slot?
3. Actually, if you go back and read, most of the conversation was me discussing Nahdia's take on the case, which is actually a push on Nahdia, not on Titus. The only "push" on Titus is, functionally, a joke I made as a rebuttal to an empty attack Titus made on me.
Really looking forward to #2 being addressed.
Oh you picked the wrong person to play the semantics game with.
Of course I'm not voting you over a playstyle debate. Staying latched on to a read regardless of an uncountered claim is not anti-town, it's scum as shit. Me pointing out that it's poor play regardless of alignment does not mean I think you can be doing it as town, just that there is scum motivation in wanting a PR to swing and you're far too experienced to make that mistake as town and have it be considered acceptable play.
Also, *I* never said you were unaware of it. If you think I did, feel free to point out where.
You only started bussing your buddy after I made a case on her over this very issue.