Newbie 1710 - Kittens (Post-Game)

[House]

If House flips scum then that's fine, I'd be pissed if I were his teammate so check for that (I quickly read Zyf seemed to react like that so if that's the case he is a good lynch), also look for people that seem to be overly cheerful about it.

So it's House/Zyf...

Maybe if it's Thor House and House flipped him one with the self vote.

But based on the very same content it's House/Thor?

You're better than this, copper.

[Zyf]

I've never seen town self hammer 2 pages into a day when he thinks scum is pushing him. It doesn't make any sense to me. If he is town I think it's objectively playing against win con.

Look at my vote. It's obvious I didn't know it was a hammer.

But there's still absolutely no reason to self vote.

Self-Voting/Hammering:
Most of us know that there are very, very few circumstances when self-voting and/or hammering (as Town) is actually helpful to the town. This type of behavior should be kept out of Newbie games, because it does not teach the new players how to play the game correctly. You are not playing to fulfill your win condition as a Town player when you self-vote or self-hammer - a better example to set would be to show the new players how to talk your way out of that situation. Failing that, let the other players lynch you, as you're supposed to do. Remember that voting is the primary method we use to judge people's alignments, and by taking away someone's vote by self-voting, you are denying the town needed information.
Of course, if you're scum then feel free to self-vote/self-hammer. Self-voting/self-hammering as scum denies the town information and IS playing toward your win condition by confusing the remaining townies and allowing your partner to hide in the confusion.

i mean, this is hardly a newbie game anymore but y'know, still

[House]

I've never seen town self hammer 2 pages into a day when he thinks scum is pushing him. It doesn't make any sense to me. If he is town I think it's objectively playing against win con.

Look at my vote. It's obvious I didn't know it was a hammer.

But there's still absolutely no reason to self vote.

Self-Voting/Hammering:
Most of us know that there are very, very few circumstances when self-voting and/or hammering (as Town) is actually helpful to the town. This type of behavior should be kept out of Newbie games, because it does not teach the new players how to play the game correctly. You are not playing to fulfill your win condition as a Town player when you self-vote or self-hammer - a better example to set would be to show the new players how to talk your way out of that situation. Failing that, let the other players lynch you, as you're supposed to do. Remember that voting is the primary method we use to judge people's alignments, and by taking away someone's vote by self-voting, you are denying the town needed information.
Of course, if you're scum then feel free to self-vote/self-hammer. Self-voting/self-hammering as scum denies the town information and IS playing toward your win condition by confusing the remaining townies and allowing your partner to hide in the confusion.

i mean, this is hardly a newbie game anymore but y'know, still

1) I self-vote when I'm wagoned over bullshit reasons as town. I do not self-hammer town. Not knowingly, anyway. It's not meta, it's just me.

2) Am I the IC in this game? No. So that copy/paste was a ginormous waste of time.

[Thor665]

man this sure is a great NEWBIE GAME huh guys?

I'm literally the only newbie here
what the actual Smurf how is this fair

The counter question would be 'how is it unfair'?
At the end of the day the purpose of this game is to provide Newbie's a setup wherein there are players (myself and the SE slots) who accept an additional responsibility of answering questions and offering game theory on request.
That's the beginning and the end of the Newbie aspect of the Newbie game - it's a game where we accept Newbie slots are learning, but the game was always intended to have experienced players in it alongside new players - a shifting of the ratios really changes nothing that I can see.

We can all agree House is playing terribly - the question is, is he terrible scum or terrible town? I favor the later at this stage.

[Thor665]

1) I self-vote when I'm wagoned over bullSmurf reasons as town. I do not self-hammer town. Not knowingly, anyway. It's not meta, it's just me.

2) Am I the IC in this game? No. So that copy/paste was a ginormous waste of time.

1. That is bad play and pretty close to a site rule infraction. If you're not playing the game for fun - replace out, don't ruin the game for others just because you're not having fun.

2. Sure - the lesson on good play still holds regardless though.

[Zyf]

Copper, I'm sorry if my natural personality makes you feel like I'm scum.

I just figured that transparency is usually better than hiding things from town
in a /newbie/, anyway
hahahaha oh the irony

PEdit-House
1) How does that help you?
2) Point is it's considered playing against wincon if you're town. Meaning if the mod is being really strict, you technically can only pull this as scum to avoid modkill. Granted, drixx messed up so they may just be letting you go.

[copper223]

@House
I'm not happy with you if you're town, you inherited the close equivalent of an innocent child and are now one of the likeliest candidates for a lynch, I'd reflect on that if this is where we're at.

Even your latest makes little sense, I just said I think it's likelier that was a townie rage quit and you go and pick the cases where I cover your scum-flip (and why do you care about that unless you are thinking I may be scum, but then you berate me for being bad (i.e. town)...).

No clue what's going on anymore.

[Thor665]

Competition for future blacklisting methinks

@Copper - where are you on Murdercat at this stage?

[House]

1) I self-vote when I'm wagoned over bullSmurf reasons as town. I do not self-hammer town. Not knowingly, anyway. It's not meta, it's just me.

2) Am I the IC in this game? No. So that copy/paste was a ginormous waste of time.

1. That is bad play and pretty close to a site rule infraction. If you're not playing the game for fun - replace out, don't ruin the game for others just because you're not having fun.

2. Sure - the lesson on good play still holds regardless though.

1) Not always. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't provide anything useful to the game.

2) Irrelevant. It's not something I'm bound by unless I'm an IC, and I've never voted myself as an IC so the wall paste was unnecessary.

[Zyf]

man this sure is a great NEWBIE GAME huh guys?

I'm literally the only newbie here
what the actual Smurf how is this fair

The counter question would be 'how is it unfair'?
At the end of the day the purpose of this game is to provide Newbie's a setup wherein there are players (myself and the SE slots) who accept an additional responsibility of answering questions and offering game theory on request.
That's the beginning and the end of the Newbie aspect of the Newbie game - it's a game where we accept Newbie slots are learning, but the game was always intended to have experienced players in it alongside new players - a shifting of the ratios really changes nothing that I can see.

We can all agree House is playing terribly - the question is, is he terrible scum or terrible town? I favor the later at this stage.

I'm pretty sure 3:6->8:1 isn't quite right
*latter
House is terrible=>town, I'm apologetic=>scum.
That's the message I'm getting

PEdit-You certainly do have some sort of clue because you guys continually scumread me based on personality/empathy

GDI post review let me post

[Zyf]

so if i'm somehow scum, who exactly is my buddy?

[copper223]

As I said, I think the way he differentiated between house and I when we both pushed on him was a decent town-tell, you have to be the kind of scum that can think about it from a townie perspective, decide which of the two cases is more likely to come from town and what the rest of town is likely going to think (and he was right given how fast house's town-reads disappeared), and then sound genuine in your selective OMGUS on one of us, I find it more likely he is just town and that was his natural reaction.

[House]

Copper, I'm sorry if my natural personality makes you feel like I'm scum.

I just figured that transparency is usually better than hiding things from town
in a /newbie/, anyway
hahahaha oh the irony

PEdit-House
1) How does that help you?
2) Point is it's considered playing against wincon if you're town. Meaning if the mod is being really strict, you technically can only pull this as scum to avoid modkill. Granted, drixx messed up so they may just be letting you go.

1) reasons
2) That's your (limited) interpretation, but it's not reality. There is much to be learned from wagons on raging/self-voting town.

[Nahdia]

dont like either of these wagons

[House]

so if i'm somehow scum, who exactly is my buddy?

I can vote here, when we're ready to lynch.

[Cerberus v666]

so if i'm somehow scum, who exactly is my buddy?

Interestingly enough, I always find this particularly comment to be moderately scummy. It's a useless question, asking for preflip associatives, and it's purely done to discredit whoever is suspicious of you. Rather than pointing to how you're town, you attempt to distract by pointing at how you don't have strong associatives with any scummy slot.

Still haven't read.

[copper223]

dont like either of these wagons

Start doing something to change the situation then.

[Zyf]

As I said, I think the way he differentiated between house and I when we both pushed on him was a decent town-tell, you have to be the kind of scum that can think about it from a townie perspective, decide which of the two cases is more likely to come from town and what the rest of town is likely going to think (and he was right given how fast house's town-reads disappeared), and then sound genuine in your selective OMGUS on one of us, I find it more likely he is just town and that was his natural reaction.

You guys seriously need to use the quote system.
1) Who are you responding to
2) who is the first he?

[House]

dont like either of these wagons

Start doing something to change the situation then.

950 would like a word with you.

[Zyf]

so if i'm somehow scum, who exactly is my buddy?

Interestingly enough, I always find this particularly comment to be moderately scummy. It's a useless question, asking for preflip associatives, and it's purely done to discredit whoever is suspicious of you. Rather than pointing to how you're town, you attempt to distract by pointing at how you don't have strong associatives with any scummy slot.

Still haven't read.

Except that, you know, I've already explained my real reason for doing it. I mean I could lie but that's a worse decision, isn't it?

[MURDERCAT]

I've never seen town self hammer 2 pages into a day when he thinks scum is pushing him. It doesn't make any sense to me. If he is town I think it's objectively playing against win con.

Look at my vote. It's obvious I didn't know it was a hammer.

I don't see how that's obvious, but ok this makes me rethink things. If true, I don't think it makes you town.

[Thor665]

There is much to be learned from wagons on raging/self-voting town.

So you're claiming that was all a ploy and you faked the whole thing?

[copper223]

@House
956

@Zyf
Are you finished complaining about meaningless things? Clearly if you read the thread you will find the question that post answers, in case you do not I'm am replying to Thor when he asked me what I think of Murdercat.

[Zyf]

Watch this s*** guys
VOTE: zyf

At least I got more than 3 people on the thread
glad to be of service, jerks

[MURDERCAT]

Thor were you reading during the hammer? What was your reaction? I think it's strange that Zyf seemed to suddenly be acting as if House would flip town even though he was voting him/thought he was scum.