Newbie 1710 - Kittens (Post-Game)

[House]

Hi all!

Yeah

Copper

and Percifrax still obvious town.

No, he's not.

Copper is so good as scum that he can fake claim and win against a legit cc.

I find it hard to believe you would so casually hand out such a town read for skilled scum.

Unless he's you're buddy, which would make sense but also build public association between you, which I'd hope you'd want to avoid if you ARE scum with him.

Still catching up...

[House]

Ok, well I'm only voting Thor, Desmond or Ness. So if you're not voting Thor, it's best we figure out which one of Desmond/Ness is scum. Until then, I'm going to be on Thor even if no one else understands.

In regular queues, I wouldn't care, but we're not in a regular queue.

The IC is not going to die d1. He has two buddies, if he's scum. Hunt them and lynch one of them.

As the IC, Thor is required to give accurate guidance to the newbies the best of his ability, regardless of win con. Nobody else in this game has that obligation.

Let the newbies learn from the IC how to play the game before stringing him up.

[House]

Blah blah blah. There is no more useful information to be obtained. Thor is scum. His partner is

one of

Des/Ness.

That's it.

Scum slip...

There are three scum. Titus is pointing her finger at two and saying that's it because she has two scum buddies (and no, not the two she's accusing... though it doesn't clear them because Titus drives a bus like a NASCAR driver.)

VOTE: Titus

[House]

Derp, been a while since I've been in newbie queue... ignore my last post.

UNVOTE:

[House]

I'd really rather just vote Root and pray one of you gets nightkilled.

Wrong.

Scum loves noise because it makes it easy to hide.

AFAIC, optimal play would be to lynch Titus to squelch the noise because the wall wars are incredibly distracting. It's not going to make the game any easier to play as it continues day after day.

VOTE: Titus

Titus, kill the walls and hunt other scum for d1 or swing.

Thor is definitely an option to me in the future, but not D1 for reasons already stated.

[House]

I'm at L minus 1.

Why didn't you announce that House?

I had no idea what L-# you were because of your wall war. Another negative side effect of shitting up the thread.

hunt other scum

This says you think Thor is scum, yet you vote me to silence the noise?

No, that says i accept you believe Thor is scum, but we both know that even if he is he must have a buddy.

[House]

That could explain all of that pretty well... Titus is certainly doing a good job of making noise about herself, but I assumed that it was just how she is in general.

Although scum loves noise, they're generally not the ones that make it because it draws too much attention to themselves (especially in the newbie queue).

That said, it doesn't mean chatty players can't be scum, because there are those that deliberately post an ocean of nonsense or intentionally misdirect in order to sow confusion, which is typically a veteran scum strat.

My point in saying that was not that I believe Titus to be scum (though I wouldn't rule it out), I was merely explaining why scum would not be likely to NK her.

[House]

If you read enough to know my content, you should be able to see VCs.

Also, if you read my posts, you'd know I think the buddy is Ness most likely, followed by your slot, with a long shot of Algae.

P.S. Your slot claimed jailkeeper.

B/S, my spot claimed vanilla in their first(?) post.

[House]

If you read enough to know my content, you should be able to see VCs.

Also, if you read my posts, you'd know I think the buddy is Ness most likely, followed by your slot, with a long shot of Algae.

P.S. Your slot claimed jailkeeper.

Why is his buddy Ness? We both know my memory is crap, so please be a dear and be patient with me.

[House]

Ness's only contribution is complaining about people forming reads early.

So, how did you eliminate everybody else in a way that justifies calling an empty slot that made two nothing posts before going to camp scum?

The game may not be long, but you've put all your effort into selling one suboptimal lynch and none explaining your other reads.

[House]

I actually agree with your townreads. Perc should be in there too though. Both Perc and Charloux strike the same noob "am I doing this right" tone.

Ness, reads aren't certain at this stage. It's just what people think is happening. By pressuring scumreads, that serves as a way to confirm or dispel suspicions.

Also, as for RVS

VOTE: copper223

This combined with the prior post doesn't feel purely random.

And that's not a great explanation of tunneling.

Tunneling = Voting someone until they are in the grave. That's what I'm doing to you, barring some really weird happening.

Algae disagrees with your theory on how to play the game. You just said you think the vote is a weapon, which is the right approach. I don't see scum advocating for a no lynch against the will of the IC.

Yeah Copper and Percifrax still obvious town.

@Root, Engage me here please. Hi. I have lovely eyes. Stare into my soul.

Yeah, the whole Charl not pushing shit is absolutely ridiculous. You're literally engaging him over his disagreement on that point. Given there's no valid substance to your Charl is not being vocal enough, the only reason left is because he disagrees with you. You can't "case" a player for not being vocal enough right when they are making comments about RVS being bad. He's majorly wrong but it's not scummy.

@Copper, Everyone unvotes on subbing in unless lylo. That's a null tell.
Nah, the Algae wagon is bad. It's not an informed perspective to take. Algae questioned site meta and got wagoned for it. Algae's comment is stupid null. It benefits neither side to make that comment in any way.

I protect people I feel are on my side. That's a given in my personality.

I don't see anyone telling me how to play but you.

Nope. There's nothing more to it beyond PoE. Everyone else I'm townreading. Desmond and Ness haven't posted anything.

Gun to my head, I would take Ness because Desmond's thing was kinda townie and Ness bitching about how people can form reads is kinda uck but I don't think either have posted enough for a major impressive read.

@Root/Person Really, scum are too much of an asset to lynch? When Thor has done zero scumhunting or sorting?

That's not what I said. What I'm trying to say is that you're so focused on defending yourself and pushing so hard against Thor, and Root is actively getting useful information from other players right now. My bet is that he'll continue to do this, especially while defending himself. If I'm wrong and he's town, the longer he lasts the better because he's very useful to the town currently. If I'm right and he's scum, then perhaps he'll bring up something useful to us later on in his defense. Again, I'm leaning town on him from his tactics alone, but I got a scum read from Charl so I'm not forgetting that while reading Root.

Blah blah blah. There is no more useful information to be obtained. Thor is scum. His partner is one of Des/Ness. That's it.

Second there is no such thing as a townie or scummy tactic. It's all about the motivation.

Let's suppose (although I disagree) that Algae is scum. The only way for that to make sense is to argue that algae flopped positions on lynching based on the wagons. Why else would they change their mind? Who got wagoned between those votes? Thor again.

All roads lead to Thor scum.

No readings that you can't back out of in a single post, and your only case is against Thor.

There is no defense for your town reads, which makes it quite simple for you to flip those reads with minimal justification.

That's scummy as hell.

[House]

Let's try a different approach.

Titus, please list everyone you are towing by name along with exactly what makes them town to you.

[House]

Towning*

[House]

especially because given your own reads I managed to convince most of the rest of town to vote with me.

UNVOTE:

[House]

If you can sell me on your town cases, which I doubt, I'll sheep you onto Ness.

I'm not lynching Thor toDay, though.

[House]

I see what you were trying to do by pushing your role onto me.

I'm going to reread the game now from your perspective. If it checks out, I'm willing to assume Titus town.

I can tell you now though that I'm not willing to dismiss copper being scum nearly as easy as you. I've seen what he's capable of as scum first hand. Dude is scary good.

[House]

And my vote on Desmond was not entirely random.

Considering you voted for Desmond (me) before he even posted, explain how your vote wasn't entirely random, please.

[House]

I see what you were trying to do by pushing your role onto me.

I'm going to reread the game now from your perspective. If it checks out, I'm willing to assume Titus town.

I can tell you now though that I'm not willing to dismiss copper being scum nearly as easy as you. I've seen what he's capable of as scum first hand. Dude is scary good.

Source?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=59782

[House]

Try actually reading it.

You posted three minutes after I put the link up. There is no way you have that game half a glance.

I don't have to read it all again, because I experienced the glory of his scum skill first hand. If you truly are interested in his chops, I suggest you read the game.

[House]

Copper built up so much towncred in that game that he fakeclaimed doc, got cc'ed, and got the real doc lynched.

Sure, he swung the next day, but it was a calculated maneuver to get rid of another threat that justified sacrificing one of our team to protect the rest.

[House]

Point is, copper looking town doesn't mean copper is necessarily town.

[House]

2.) Percifrax - #11 starts with the newb town tone read. I've got some reads forming, but I dunno if they are right. #14, He's trying to understand thought processes here. Why did one player do this over that particular wagon? -- I would go through the rest of his ISO in detail but it all is the same tone. You can see the gears turning in his thread. If only I could fucking get him to see Thor is a hollow shell. He had it before, but not now. He starts to dismiss it in 252 as just how Thor plays. That's based on Thor's own self meta. I've been saying Thor isn't that way at all though. Yet, just because Percifrax is wrong doesn't make him scum in the slightest.
3.) Titus - Town Jailkeeper, frustrated to death Day 1.
5.) Desmond_13 * House - VT claim at the start. Scum don't box themselves in like that usually.

Fine with these reads so far, still looking over the game.

[House]

I can't support a town read on Algae based on their crap ISO.

He went from floundering to complete lurksack... to avoid more floundering.

Where is he trying to figure the game out? Where is he trying to do anything more than avoid attention?

[House]

And my vote on Desmond was not entirely random.

I'm looking forward to an answer on why her vote was not entirely random considering Des hasn't even posted yet, and I also wonder why nobody else was curious about that.

[House]

@House
So what do you think of Root's entry?

I'll let you know when I get there.

[House]

Not liking Nahdia for town. At all.

Her posts are a bunch of meaningless commentary. There is no investigation, no sorting.

She's just prod fishing and laying low.

[House]

Titus, you're basing your reads on Nahdia and Char largely on the fact they agree with your own reads, which is dangerous territory and makes you incredibly susceptible to budding.

[House]

Not liking Nahdia for town. At all.

Her posts are a bunch of meaningless commentary. There is no investigation, no sorting.

She's just prod

fishing

dodging and laying low.

Ebwop

[House]

Ok i got wifi here, yay!

I like Thor for town, since i think Scum tend to be more passive rather than aggressive; But he should really chill a bit...
Copper is a scumlean for me, but it's likely just me since i am usually scumreading those who change their votes once every 2/3 posts; And his short dialog with Titus should be remember for when we see some flips.

Everybody else is null for me now.

Doesn't look like Char agreed with your Thor read at all.

[House]

I play for fun. I didn't have any problems in my prior games since i made some sort of balance.
VOTE: Thor for being a Jerk and clouding the game with his negative emotions and actions.

This doesn't look like a vote for an actual scum read, he's lashing out at someone for being a jerk.

Town can be jerks, too.

[House]

If I had to pick a scum team right now, I'd go with Titus & Nahdia.

Titus' reads aren't all terrible, but they look calculated to be sellable at a glance with some effort to cover for a possible teammate that is having trouble with learning how to scum.

VOTE: Titus

[House]

UNVOTE:

Forgot the claim. Sheesh

[House]

Sorry Titus.

What can I say? You make me paranoid.

[House]

Speaking of claims...

3.) Titus - Town Jailkeeper, frustrated to death Day 1.

Any PR except BP can CC this claim.

[House]

Nahdia is hardly a newbie.

You can check her ISO for her meta.

Which makes her play all the worse.

[House]

VOTE: Nahdia

I'm happy voting here.

[House]

And a soft defense from copper that doesn't hold water.

Scum have more motivation to appear helpful than town, especially in newbie games where new players can be swayed by such helpfulness.

Town copper would know this.

[House]

If I had to pick a scum team right now, I'd go with Titus & Nahdia.

Titus' reads aren't all terrible, but they look calculated to be sellable at a glance with some effort to cover for a possible teammate that is having trouble with learning how to scum.

VOTE: Titus

Nahdia is hardly a newbie.

You can check her ISO for her meta.

MY reads are cover for Nahdia being new scum.

But Nahdia's scum regardless...

Easy to ignore 356, brain child.

[House]

I wasn't complaining about your vote, but your Nahdia read progression.

I didn't like her for town based on her ISO alone Z's and the to of this page explains why.

You're just miffed that I was still paranoid about you after your claim, lol.

[House]

I wasn't complaining about your vote, but your Nahdia read progression.

I didn't like her for town based on her ISO alone, and the top of this page explains why.

You're just miffed that I was still paranoid about you after your claim, lol.

EBWOP

[House]

Scum have more motivation to appear helpful than town, especially in newbie games where new players can be swayed by such helpfulness.

I agree, that's why I am re-evaluating the read now that I have very likely new info. from Titus, but it's not that easy to fake exactly the right tone.

Scum copper doesn't cast doubt on his teammates, if you want to use my meta.

Precisely.

[House]

@House
Anyway I get the paranoia and your vote on Nahdia is going to help me read the game regardless, but I'd like a review of the rest of the players as well (if you haven't said everything that jumped out to you already).

My reads are heavily based on Titus' reads, with the exceptions/disagreements explained over the past two pages.

[House]

Hey Thor, why are you going after conftown instead of the real scum?

Because unlike you I don't have a scum role PM so don't know who the conf scum are, duh.

She's an un-cc'ed PR claim.

And you're still claiming she's scum....

I'm all for giving ICs time to IC before stringing them up, but dude you're fucking doing it wrong.

VOTE: Thor

[House]

I mean seriously, if you're going to lean hard on mechanics as your defense or playstyle, you need to at least promote proper play on mechanics.

Bad IC is bad.

[House]

House I'm no stranger to playing scum. If you wanna dive, go ahead:

Why should I dive when you won't? Sounds kinda hypocritical.

This is the first post you've made with any actual content in it, and as I predicted, you latched onto the answer that was provided for you. Not that it couldn't have been the truth, that is just why I find it poor play when one person answers a question that is directed at another.

You've done absolutely nothing to alleviate my suspicions of you, and your first response to me being so Wallis when everything else you've posted has been fifty words or less tells me that I'm on the right track.

[House]

wait what i'm looking and i legit don't see any claim

Not following the game is scummy.

[House]

310, 313, 314, 330

Edify yourself.

[House]

wait what i'm looking and i legit don't see any claim

Not following the game is scummy.

I'm staring over Titus' ISO. I've been following. I don't see a claim. Help me out here, friend.

also jesus christ no it's not what kind of low level garbage is that.

Well if you don't believe it is, you sure jumped to defend yourself against my push before you faked your objection.

Feeling great about a Nahdia/Thor team.

[House]

^ kinda OTT for one person pointing a finger on allegedly weak grounds and not even voting the accused scum.

[House]

"not noticing titus claimed in the middle of a thick wall of text is basically a scumclaim!!!!!"

-House

sage as fuck

Bullshit, it was a READS wall and town would have read that post.

[House]

Caught scum is caught.

[House]

Titus knows I use mechanics as town.
I have provided a quote that shows this.
She claims I don't.
Ergo - she is scum.

Does that help?

Mechanics are your supposed playstyle.
Titus claimed an uncountered PR
You called her scum anyway.

Yep. Helps a lot!

[House]

Thor and Nahdia
Sitting in a tree
S-C-U-M-M-I-N-G

[House]

he clearly missed the super hidden claim as well.

How lame is that excuse?

1) Until I came along, all her walls were in response to his walls. He read it.

2) It was a READS wall, and any decent IC reads... reads, in order to critique the player making them, regardless of alignment.

[House]

I see what you were trying to do by pushing your role onto me.

I'm going to reread the game now from your perspective. If it checks out, I'm willing to assume Titus town.

I can tell you now though that I'm not willing to dismiss copper being scum nearly as easy as you. I've seen what he's capable of as scum first hand. Dude is scary good.

Anyone that supposedly missed Titus' claim should have caught that in my post and knew they missed something important, so I'm not buying your flailing.

[House]

UNVOTE:

Forgot the claim. Sheesh

This also should have told you that you missed something important.

[House]

like. ur doing that thign where u see a situation and u draw in ur head one explanation for a sea of billions of possible explanations for the event. and the one u drew ends in them being scum and now ur acting like that's the only possibility and ignoring every other potential explanation.

that's what ur doing. that's u. it's bad. u should stop doin' that thing.

Look how long it took you to offer anything even remotely viable to an alternative to my theory.

And I even shot that down by posting two examples of where nobody could have missed that there had been a claim if they were paying any attention to the game at all.

That's scum as shit, posting a big ass wall at the first suspicion that gets thrown your way and then trying to lean on skimming after your flailing fails.

If you want to look town, try catching scum instead of dedicating 100 posts to how I'm so bad at mafia for suspecting the oh so mighty Nahdia that has never been lynched as scum, because you're not convincing me with this garbage.

[House]

She's an un-cc'ed PR claim.

That is correct.

And you're still claiming she's scum....

That is also correct,

I'm all for giving ICs time to IC before stringing them up, but dude you're Smurfing doing it wrong.

What am I doing wrong exactly?
Because judging by your two pages with Nahdia, it's a belief I didn't see her claim.
Which...y'know, considering I unvoted her in the very first post I made after her claim....well, okay, maybe I didn't see her claim and decided to unvote for some random unstated reason...but, I kinda doubt it.
Also, un-CCed is a long ways from being confirmed town, but, I do agree with you as a mechanics based concept, despite my read, i don't support lynching her today. Which, oddly, appears supported by me unvoting her.
So - what am I doing wrong?

Wow.

1) Continuing to push an uncountered claim is poor play regardless of alignment.

2) Newbies can be forgiven for missing the claim, but anyone with any experience at all would have picked up on the fact there had been a claim in the following posts... posts I've recently quoted.

3) Why defend your push on Titus and point out your unvote of her, when the fact remains you continued to push her as scum AFTER your unvote?

[House]

im voting scum.

How can you possibly know that, since you're "skimming"?

[House]

1) Continuing to push an uncountered claim is poor play regardless of alignment.

2) Newbies can be forgiven for missing the claim, but anyone with any experience at all would have picked up on the fact there had been a claim in the following posts... posts I've recently quoted.

3) Why defend your push on Titus and point out your unvote of her, when the fact remains you continued to push her as scum AFTER your unvote?

1. I disagree, but if you find it non-alignment indicative the worst you can suggest is that it is anti-town, as opposed to pro-scum, and at that stage it's a playstyle debate - are you voting me over a playstyle debate?

2. At what point did I say I was unaware of the claim? What evidence do you have for me ignoring the claim considering iI unvoted the slot?

3. Actually, if you go back and read, most of the conversation was me discussing Nahdia's take on the case, which is actually a push on Nahdia, not on Titus. The only "push" on Titus is, functionally, a joke I made as a rebuttal to an empty attack Titus made on me.

Really looking forward to #2 being addressed.

Oh you picked the wrong person to play the semantics game with.

Of course I'm not voting you over a playstyle debate. Staying latched on to a read regardless of an uncountered claim is not anti-town, it's scum as shit. Me pointing out that it's poor play regardless of alignment does not mean I think you can be doing it as town, just that there is scum motivation in wanting a PR to swing and you're far too experienced to make that mistake as town and have it be considered acceptable play.

Also, *I* never said you were unaware of it. If you think I did, feel free to point out where.

You only started bussing your buddy after I made a case on her over this very issue.

[House]

hey thor if House's push on u seems familiar it's because he's using the exact same logic you've been using in your push on Titus. are u now confscum?

I can't believe you've never been lynched as mafia, because you're p bad if this game is any indication.

[House]

Also, Thor?

he clearly missed the super hidden claim as well.

How lame is that excuse?

1) Until I came along, all her walls were in response to his walls. He read it.

2) It was a READS wall, and any decent IC reads... reads, in order to critique the player making them, regardless of alignment.

Sup.

[House]

he's claiming he didn't miss the claim so i'm not sure what u point is lol.

who isn't reading now? it's u.

He asked me a question.

I answered it.

Who's soft defending her busser? It's you.

[House]

im bulletproof.

can u stop making noise about slots that aren't getting lynched now? pls?

You certainly have nothing to lose by gambiting a fake claim.

After all, there's a 50% chance your claim won't be countered, and it's your only chance at avoiding the gallows because I've got you cold.


tl;dr> shenanigans

[House]

Vote: Nahdia

So you ease off one claimed PR and pat yourself on the back to shop around for town cred, but turn around and vote another PR claim that hasn't been countered because she didn't answer a question?

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're voting scum, but it doesn't exactly sell me on town Thor.

[House]

im bulletproof.

can u stop making noise about slots that aren't getting lynched now? pls?

Unvote: Nahdia
Vote: Algae

Lmao

[House]

practice what u preach and stop voting the conformable PR claim, House.

Still not paying attention, are you?

396 would like a word with you.

[House]

i don't think the blatant hypocrisy makes u scum but it is silly.

You're role is not confirmable.

You have no results to provide, you can't do anything but survive at night, which is a damned convenient claim for scum to fake.

[House]

We need to lynch Thor and when he flips scum, jail Nahdia.

When nobody dies tonight, we have our second scum.

[House]

@House,

Assuming Nahdia's claim is true for a moment, who is lynchable today? I am not getting lynched without a CC. Nor is Nahdia.

Also, if we do not lynch the roleblocker today and a kill fails, Nahdia would be confscum anyway.

Already answered.

[House]

We need to lynch Thor and when he flips scum, jail Nahdia.

When nobody dies tonight, we have our second scum.

This argument supposes a Thor roleblocker flip no?

I've been away for a while. I thought jailer resolved first?

[House]

Scum is likely to leave Titus alive because she can just be blocked.

Tonight's kill will likely be one of the low content posters, leaving us to bicker among and mislynch each other.

Either way, Thor needs to swing today. I'm just not seeing any alternative to hauling Nahdia on the assumption that she's faking her claim and banking on not having a counter.

[House]

Hauling = jailing

And you can't kill her if you're scum and jailed.

[House]

396 would like a word with you.

[House]

yes, but if there's a blocker, I'm town.

Precisely, so jailing you clears you either way.

If there's no kill, you swing. If there's a kill, you're confto wn.

[House]

Hauling = jailing

And you can't kill her if you're scum and jailed.

What makes you presume jailing an uncced bp is good play?

I'm P sure it's a desperation fake claim.

I've done the same before here in the newbie queue and sold it.

Here, we can confirm not that she's bp, but that she isn't scum.

[House]

yes, but if there's a blocker, I'm town.

Precisely, so jailing you clears you either way.

If there's no kill, you swing. If there's a kill, you're confto wn.

Not so fast on that. If there's a kill = conftown if I jailed her. The other premise would not be true.

If there is no kill and she's jailed, she's scum.

Scum withholding their kill gains nothing because mislynching Nahdia the following day would take the kill they missed out on.

Scum would lose out by not killing as much as they can here.

[House]

right bc i was so desperate when under pressure of a grand total of... 1 person.

You flailed retardulously because I got you dead to rights out of the blue.

[House]

yes, but if there's a blocker, I'm town.

Precisely, so jailing you clears you either way.

If there's no kill, you swing. If there's a kill, you're confto wn.

Not so fast on that. If there's a kill = conftown if I jailed her. The other premise would not be true.

If there is no kill and she's jailed, she's scum.

Scum withholding their kill gains nothing because mislynching Nahdia the following day would take the kill they missed out on.

Scum would lose out by not killing as much as they can here.

Mislynching a BP = Awesome in the scheme of things. That's trading two kills for one.

1) she's not bp
2 If scum gives up their nk to frame her, they gain nothing because, ta-da! NO TOWN DIES THAT NIGHT!

In fact, let her live d2. We can afford a mislynch after Thor flips red, but scum can't afford to keep holding their shot if she's town.

[House]

@House, Why aren't you considering the possibility Thor flips RB?

I don't concern myself worth scum roles.

If he flips blocker, she still needs to be jailed regardless to prevent the nk.

[House]

If he flips blocker I'm literally confirmed town.

No you're not.

If he's blocker, you're uncountered PR claim.

Not the same at all.

[House]

Will if Thor flips Goon, Titus is basically a named Townie, but at least it narrows our scumspect pool considerably.

[House]

Root, copper, Algae, Ness < seems to be our options if there is an RB flip.

If not, I'm still sold on Nahdia scum because she went from no content to hyper-defensive in record time and I'm still not seeing any scum hunting from her to find Thor's buddy.

[House]

If Thor flips goon, I am dead.

Not necessarily.

If there are two goons , there is no bp to cc Nahdia.

[House]

If Thor flips goon, I am dead.

Don't you see? If scum are both goons, they KNOW bp fake is their best shot at survival.

[House]

If Thor flips goon, I am dead.

Not necessarily.

If there are two goons , there is no bp to cc Nahdia.

If Thor flips goon, Nahdia has to be scum and I must jail her to live.

That's what I've been saying!

[House]

If Thor flips goon, I am dead.

Not necessarily.

If there are two goons , there is no bp to cc Nahdia.

If Thor flips goon, Nahdia has to be scum and I must jail her to live.

That's what I've been saying!

Error, foundation. Argument supposed two goons.

Argument supposes fake claim.

Who's more experienced in fake claims than I?

[House]

The more realistic scenario is scum roleblocker, thus I am dead.

Either way, your only chance at living is targeting Nahdia tonight unless RB flips.

[House]

Look at this from a scum!Nahdia pov.

If one of them are RB, they know a fake claim won't fly. If they're both goons, they know there is no RB to counter.

I'm banking on there being two goons this setup because Nahdia is so proud of her scum game but she really dropped the ball in this one.

[House]

It's not confbias, it's experienced fake claimer spotting his own tactics.

[House]

anyway, getting out of boring setup speculaton and back to scumhunting

I'm fine lynching Thor, though I'd prefer Root. It'd be nice to have any content from the Ness slot since it's entirely unreadable atm.

p-edit im voting Root.

I'll work with you.

If Thor flips RB, I'll vote root toMorrow. You vote Thor toDay.

Deal?

[House]

If I tunneled, I wouldn't make such a deal Titus.

You know this.

I'm interested in my theory, but I also accept the possibility of error.

[House]

Yeah, no.

Nahdia, join us on Thor.

House, why are you bargaining with a scumread?

She's not a scumread if Thor is RB, sigh.

[House]

titus who will u jail if we lynch RB today?

I suggest Root or Ness, and lynch whichever one wasn't jailed if there's a kill tonight.

[House]

Look at this from a scum!Nahdia pov.

If one of them are RB, they know a fake claim won't fly. If they're both goons, they know there is no

RB

BP to counter.

I'm banking on there being two goons this setup because Nahdia is so proud of her scum game but she really dropped the ball in this one.

Ebwop

[House]

Nahdia, being confident in her "always wins as scum" status is unlikely to claim BP to save her butt when there isn't even a strong wagon on her, so I'm pretty confident she is town.

I fake claimed doctor on d1 when my wagon was l-2 and went on to win the game. Bonus... there were NO other claims on which to base my fake claim.

Are you saying Nahdia, who is oh so awesome as scum, lacks the capacity to fake claim and win when she has the knowledge of the scum team roles as well as a claimed PR to shape her fake claim around?

C'mon, man.

[House]

Nahdia, if you are town, look at the matrix and tell us objectively, of you WERE scum, if fake claiming tracker would be a plausible fake claim if we are in row 1.

Is copper selling you short, again, if you WERE scum?

I'm not pushing you here, I'm pushing copper because he should know better.

[House]

Nahdia wouldn't have faked bp if her or her busy were RB, lol.

[House]

Nahdia wouldn't have faked bp if her or her

busy

buddy were RB, lol.

Ebwop

[House]

if you meant bulletproof, yes of course it's a plausible fake claim. in my newbie game we were in row one and my partner (hi drixx!) fakeclaimed bulletproof. it's about context though. and copper is reading the context of my claim as town. i had a single vote on me at the time of the claim; L-4. might i have used a tactic like early claiming as scum to win townpoints? sure i would. but he's reading it as genuine and I don't think he's wrong to. it seems like you're just telling him "don't trust your thoughts because you should be paranoid and this player and assume they're scum". it's something of a stretch to call him scum for townreading me there, I think.

I'm not calling him scum for town reading you.

His over-simplistic analysis and underestimation of what scum is capable of is making me paranoid.

You're not even a possibility as scum to him in the post I addressing, and that's just disconcerting.

[House]

The fact you are already excluding a setup to warp the conditions to fit your scum read is not a trivial point by the way.

What setup am I excluding? Row three?

[House]

Column A.

I'm not excluding column A. What do you think all the roleblocker chat was about?

[House]

I just think people are taking column A as a given, when it's not.

Nahdia was quick to call herself confirmed town after her claim, buddies anyone else had even had a chance to really counter.

If we're on row 1, scum KNOWS there won't be a counter and has every incentive to try to pass themselves of as confirmed town on their fake claim.

[House]

buddies = before*

[House]

Nahdia and Titus are scum in my opinion.the rest,no idea.

If Nahdia and Titus are scum, what would everyone else have to be, by process of elimination?

[House]

Percifrax, considering Desmond (my slot) claimed VT, why can't I be scum with Root, Ness, or Algae?

I haven't interacted with either of those three. Does it not strike you as odd that I've made so many posts and not interacted with either of them or yourself (until now)?

[House]

Only now that I think about it, but in your defense neither Ness nor Algae have given you a chance to interact with them given how inactive they are on this game. As for Root, he was only spcifically active for a very short period of time before Desmond was replaced by you, and of course Desmond was inactive and interacted with neither Char nor Root, nor anyone really for that matter. His only post was seemingly addressed to the entirety of those voting against him.

For future reference, you could have asked me what I asked you (about the failure to interact), even though you already had a good idea why.

If i stumbled over the answer or gave something entirely different from what you were expecting that didn't quite add up, that would be a solid scum ping.

[House]

Somebody wake me when stuff happens.

[House]

Please explain your copper and Perc suspicions.

[House]

I have so many issues with those catch-up posts...

[House]

like...?

Don't make me pull out my laptop.

You won't like me when I pull out my laptop.

(Besides, I asked first)

[House]

Here are the main ones that pinged me, plus not really being involved lately.

Spoiler: Perc

Basically, why am I scummier than Copper and deserve a vote while he doesn't even deserve a mention?

I do find copper's previous vote for desmond suspicious, but the fact that he just changed his vote to me suggests that he's put just trying to get someone lynched, since the vote count for desmond was still high when he voted against me. It makes him less likely to be scum trying to get a townie lynched and is also possible evidence that he's legitimately trying to lynch the suspicious.

My theory remains that a scum would be likely to be one to join a wagon, though, narrowing it down to Thor, Copper (although I'm suspecting him less and less for my previously mentioned reasons), and Algae. However, it seems to me that Algae was just in a hurry and needed to vote for someone quickly, therefor making them less suspicious. He hasn't posted enough for me to really read into yet.

I really hate this post. Thor called it out too. The question is why is Thor scummier than Cop as of post 8. Perc then answers with 'I did find it scummy but a recent action looks towny.' So Perc dodged the direct question. It reads to me like Perc had some desire to find a scumread on Thor, placed his vote there, and then backed off cop when questioned.

Ah, I was wondering what was with the votes against Algae. Ness's post did strike me as suspicious but I didn't really see enough to really work with here. I guess I assumed the wagon for Algae was to get his response or something. I think I can trust Copper and that read makes sense. Plus Thor seems to be a really aggressive townie with a good cause to be suspicious of Titus (who strikes me as meh at the moment). Anyway, I think it's about time that I change my vote since the information that it stands on is irrelevant on this site, it seems.

UNVOTE: Thor

VOTE: Algae

This just feels like a weird back pedal especially with the "about time I change my vote" part. I don't know that really pings me. Like, he knows that he is moving his vote for a reason other than he has a new top scum read (or is applying pressure). Plus this is just going along with the game state, IMO. Thor looks towny here and Algae is being pressured.

Sorry about that wait between my posts. I had to take care of something irl. Anyway, here we go:

Suppose that I buy your logic that "the second vote on somebody is scummy because it starts a wagon", why did you never attack Nadhia for placing the second vote on algae without even mentioning him in any of her previous posts?

As I explained, that logic seems not to apply to mafiascum. I actually didn't really notice that Nahdia's vote was the second on the seemingly semi-random wagon against Algae, which turned out not to be so random after all, either. However, even if I had noticed, the heavy opposition to my logic there from other players would have kept be for voting against Nahdia for that. Plus, I've been getting town vibes from her so far, whereas when I voted for Thor in the beginning nobody had really said anything with enough to get any "vibes" from. That vote was just from experience on other sites, nothing else.

This just pings me because it feels like he is going way over the top trying to explain page 1 actions, you know? Like, if the point is "I didn't notice" then why not just say that?

So you think he's playing low to avoid implication now that he has a widely accepted townread?

I can see that.

[House]

You now house

Ugh.

Fine ...

[House]

Spoiler: Catchup Post 1

Hello everyone I know! And hello newbies! Here we go! This is through page 10.

Nahdia/Thor/copper - 5,6,7 Why are we naked RVSing a noob who hasn't posted? NAI because there is scum and town motivation but this just strikes me as odd...

Are you aware of what RVS is? You want to talk about tryhard, this is pretty tryhard.

Percifrax - 11 trying to figure things out or scum trying to hard to look busy? I think this will become more clear as I figure out the playstyle.

I could say that you're reaching pretty hard in order to try to look like you're figuring things out while giving extremely superficial responses, and this is much farther along into the game than the post you're criticizing.

Thor - 17 But he did mention you...

More superficial reaching. This is garbage.

Thor - 21 Is this just trying to get the game started or scum really trying to look town? I haven't played with you yet Thor so I'm not sure

So why bother even mentioning it? Do you want something to point back at later and say "I started being suspicious here!' when you're pushed on your read of him? Because this isn't worth it.

Desmond - 23 Ugh this happened a lot in a game I just played where a VT claimed really early for no reason (and then the slot I replaced into CC'd lol) and our tracker died night 1. I think this is probably coming from town though. That's how I read the slot in the other game, another townie said "no he is scum faking us out!" and scum agreed so I voted him in lylo and we lost...

This feels like a setup for a later read flip, and it is still way too early to be drawing these kinds of conclusions, one way or the other.

<snip>

Char - 39 You are wrong past me

Why criticize your predecessors? What productive purpose does this serve?

Thor - 41 Continuing to ask pointed questions and following up on conversations. I like that

First comment you've made that registered as anything above a "meh".

Copper - 49 (part addressed to Thor) Ugh I don't like the response to Thor. I hate the "I'll just sit back and see approach" because if townies do it, scum can do it. You can keep doing it though, because I don't think you're town

Still wanting to see a copper scum case. I'd especially like to see a rational case for why you were thinking he was scum this early.

Perc - 52 Answering the question you want to answer instead of the one that was asked

Read it again. Just because he didn't answer the question in the way you'd like to see the answer formatted doesn't mean he didn't answer the question that was asked of him.

Copper - 53 Algae vote out of nowhere? This really feels like scum looking busy to me

It's not even 100 posts in, and you're thinking that scum feels the need to look busy? Seriously?

Bad. Very bad.

<snip>

Thor - 101 I like the beginning of that response to Titus, but there's a misrep on what Titus is saying at the end.
Thor - 103 Kind of over defensive...
Titus v Thor - I think Thor is winning right now

Thor is misrepping Titus and being overdefensive, but he's winning the 1v1? Explain.

Regarding Titus - 121 I don't know her play either but I could definitely see it coming from scum Titus just based on what I know of her overall playstyle.

You don't know her play but you could call her play scummy based on what you know of her playstyle?

Does. Not. Compute.

Copper - 126 I think this is kind of laughable... I'm not sold on Titus scum but I don't think that is good logic

Copper's logic is actually pretty spot on, there. Putting down reads is tricky for scum, because they have to justify changing those reads if the game starts drifting in an anti-scum direction.

Please refrain from criticizing anyone else's logic for the rest of the game, kthx.

Drixx - 141 Why I joined this game, that's adorable.

Thanks for wasting my time on an already bloated wall.

copper - 146 I kind of buy this?
Perc - 147 Bleh. Hate this post. Specifically, "about time that I change my vote."
A bunch of not really game related stuff...

1) Perc changed from an RVS vote to a vote for cause. What's to hate?
2) There was not "a bunch of" not really game related stuff. There was one statement at the end.

copper - 161 You're pretty sure Char is town but you are now going to consider a scum team of Perc/Char? Anyone else think this is weird?

Nope. Replacing out isn't alignment indicative, and copper's conjecture on that point was purely speculative.

If you really thought copper was pretty sure Char was town due to replacing out, a far better push would have been to ask him why replacing out was a town move, because that would have been asking about his mindset on Char's motivation for the action.

<snip>

Thor - 191 Another scum read on my slot when I think Thor was Char was just a bit intimidated by Thor... :/

What the...

What?

At least it means I probably won't be eating any bullets tonight

How is this possibly a town statement to make, considering you're VT via PoE and everybody including scum already knows this anyway?

Root - 196 I don't think it's that bad past me...

More bloating your catchup wall unnecessarily via arguing with your predecessors... is this town trying to figure out the game or scum trying to look busy?

Hmmmmm

Perc - 204 Is it just me or does it feel like Perc is constantly baack pedaling?

That word...

I don't think it means what you think it means.

More Titus versus Thor, still on Thor's side I think

You've never explained why you were on the misrepping overdefensive player's side of the 1v1 (your words, not mine)

Titus - 242 Scum reads are the person you're attacking and 2 inactives.. I disagree with your reads.

Scum are frequently inactive to avoid drawing attention, especially d1. Why is this worthy of comment?

Spoiler: Catchup Post 2

House - 355 She claimed jailkeep mostly unprovoked... What?
House - 356 Bleh your slot did you a favor otherwise I'd be scum leaning you for that (IGMEOY, though)

Duh. I had just replaced in and was still getting my bearings. I don't give a damn where you put your eye, but it definitely isn't on the ball.

Algae - 390 lol

With posts like that, why do you object to an Algae lynch??

Nahdia - 416 heheheh

Why are you wasting our time with this useless garbage? For wanting to criticize people for being scum trying to look busy, you're doing an awful lot of unnecessary busywork, yourself.

House v Nahdia - I like house

Why?

Nahdia - 463 Well there goes my complaint about the VT claim...

Why?

House - 466 This makes no sense, we know the setup now. Unless Nahdia and Titus are scum together and decided to go crazy on day 1 (spoiler alert, I don't think so).

Don't take every claim you read at face value. Look for ways they can be manipulated.

Thor - 468 More PR voting... Why are we not beliving these claims? Until there's a cc I think they are both legit.

Bad. Bad. Bad.

Oh I see, if scum are two goons then BP is a safe fake claim. Hmm.

Precisely.

On the Nahdia point, we aren't lynching her today obviously. If the claim is fake then our goal is the same, we lynch scum. If we lynch scum, then Titus figures out if Nahdia is legit or not. So lets stop talking about Nahdia and start trying to lynch the other scum please.

[/quote]

Kinda stating the obvious.

[House]

I'd like to murder a cat today.

VOTE: MURDERCAT

[House]

Honestly it feels like you just went through the entire post and tried to find a way to spin everything...

And then voting me before I respond feels weird too. Why not vote me directly after I made the post if you weren't going to wait to hear what I had to say anyway?

Number 2 coming.

Nope. You asked me to point out my problems with your catch up posts, so I did.

I obviously didn't have a problem with everything you said, or my walls would have been larger. I snipped the parts I didn't object to out and left <snip> trails.

It's not my fault you're so transparent.

As far as why I didn't vote when you first posted the wall, it's because I didn't bother reading it in depth because it was absolute garbage at a glance and I didn't feel like having people pestering me about it until I could clearly illustrate what I saw.

[House]

Ok. You know maybe I gave your slot too much credit. Looking through your ISO it seems like you've been very opportunistic. Who are you top two scum reads right now? Me and Thor? Can you explain how you went from not wanting to lynch Thor today to voting him? What is you read on Nahdia currently?

That's right, build up that OMGUS.

Pro-Tip: Somebody's read on you is not indicative of their alignment.

You're just pissed off that you didn't succeed in appealing to my paranoia over copper and instead used your terribad remarks to point out your scummy motivation.

Titus is pretty much conftown, so I'm willing to sheep her to support her theory. If she agrees with my read on you, gravy. If not, it's not like I'm married to this read. It's possible town can just be this derpy, but some of the things I saw looked like now than servitude.

[House]

More* than derpitude*

(Back on my phone)

[House]

It's not OMGUS if you misrep most of my catch up and don't attempt to actually work with me.

I didn't misrep anything. You asked me what looked like shit. I told you what looked like shit.

[House]

Have you read my responses to your points?

Perhaps you missed where I said I'm back on my phone?

If you want to flood the thread with shitwalls do your thing, but I'll get around to dealing with that tedious crap when I get back on my laptop, which won't be anytime soon.

[House]

I'm not sure why I getting so much hate when you haven't even read my content. You decided my catch up post was shit before you even read it, then you conf biased all over it. I assume you also haven't read the posts on Perc and Copper and the post in response to Thor? Many of your concerns were answered in those posts so I'd appreciate it if you could read those and my replies to you when you have the chance, thanks.

Just because I don't care to post walls from my phone doesn't mean I am not reading posts.

For accusing me of misrep, you sure seem to jump at the chance to do so.

[House]

Wait but two posts ago you said you didn't want to read my posts because you are on your phone...?

Be a dear and quote where I said any such thing.

Or admit to being a hypocrite when you can't.

[House]

@Titus: My copper paranoia/suspicion was a Wisdom gambit, as I'm sure you can recognize after reading my critique of MURDERCAT's catch up.


To the uninitiated, Wisdom is a crafty player that routinely throws out false reads to gauge reactions and hunt scum that latched onto those reads and attempts to support them with manipulative intent.

[House]

Have you read my responses to your points?

Perhaps you missed where I said I'm back on my phone?

If you want to flood the thread with shitwalls do your thing, but I'll get around to dealing with that tedious crap when I get back on my laptop, which won't be anytime soon.

I'm not sure how to interpret this post in any other way than "No, I have not read your posts because I am on my phone."

So it's entirely acceptable for you to twist my words to mean what you want, but i can't draw conclusions based on your clearly stated moonlogic that I soundly refuted.

Gotcha.

I mean, I'm obviously reading your posts considering I've been responding to you all this time, so you have zero excuses to claim I'm not reading.

[House]

MURDERCAT, I'm waiting for the words, "I am a hypocrite for misrepping you after accusing you of misrepping me."

[House]

Spoiler: copper

Cause voting Thor is unlikely to generate a wagon (newbies don't like to vote the IC) nor is it likely going to give you a read on him. Voting a newbie will likely produce a more interesting reaction, don't you think?

This is the first one I noticed, seems weirdly protective of Thor. Like, votes cause wagons, that's literally what a wagon is, a collection of votes.

Stating the obvious, which may in fact not be obvious to newbies, is hardly being "weirdly protective". Also, copper is far too talented as scum to fall all over himself in RVS. He'd push his buddy, then back off after some back and forth unless his buddy simply couldn't hold his own, in which case he'd simply bus. Yes, I'm speaking from experience.

@Thor
I wanted to see how the rest of the players reacted to RVS and what else would pop up before starting my own line of inquiry.

Maybe it's just me but I always think stuff like this is BS. What specifically were you looking for? If you just give vague reasons you aren't actively scum hunting then scum is allowed to do it too. (And like I said before, if you are scum you're doing great, this game will be easy.)

I asked for a valid reason to scumread copper by post 49 since that is where you first called him scum, iirc... and this is all you have?

This could simply be playstyle indicative. Did you meta him to see if he behaves this way as town, or only as scum? If he posts similarly under both alignments, your "grand discovery" means absolutely nothing.

53 I mentioned that I didn't like this vote on Algae. It's definitely a scum tactic to place a vote and only give reasoning when called for, but I'll admit that the reasons that were given seemed ok so this gets a pass for now.

I frequently give naked votes. SOMETIMES, I don't even ANSWER WHY!

You're grasping at straws.

I don't think it's very likely Titus is scum because she agreed with me on a bunch of town-reads so early and added one s well that seems to pan out, you really don't want to limit your options that much as scum if you don't have to.

Thor called this out too. Titus is perfectly capable of getting out of town reads she made early in the game if she is scum. Now that I know Titus is town I don't really know what to make of this though. Maybe if I'm stretching it then it's a bit of a white knight? Titus did have some pressure on her at that point and was maybe headed towards a lynch. Copper eventually voted there though so maybe not.

I think you're the one guilty of confbias.

@Perci
If he replace out as scum like this I won't be pleased.

I'd be pretty sure this was town frustration boiling over (excessively in my opinion, Thor is blunt but Charl. showed he is immature as well) but now that you have cross defended each other a {Charl_rep, Perci} team is something to consider, still not very likely though.

This just reads as scum keeping options open to me. Like if he ever gets called out for saying charl is town and going back on it he can say "it wasn't that strong look at the next line, I'm considering her as scum!!" I just don't see why you feel the need to say you are willing to consider a scum team of two players right after you say you are town reading one of them. (Also this fits nicely with my idea of Perc being scum, because if perc and cop are scum team and perc flips then cop can come back and say oh wait remember that thing with Char? But preflip associations and all that, I'll try not to consider that yet.)

And I addressed this in my earlier response wall.

I was severely disappointed when I first read this, which is why I treated it like it didn't exist.

Your case is worthless.

[House]

MURDERCAT, I'm waiting for the words, "I am a hypocrite for misrepping you after accusing you of misrepping me."

[House]

MURDERCAT, I'm waiting for the words, "I am a hypocrite for misrepping you after accusing you of misrepping me."

Can you just explain what you meant by that post then instead of being all hostile?

Just because I don't want to/can't pull out my laptop to address your unnecessarily long walls that could have easily been made as separate posts doesn't mean i didn't read the posts, and you claiming I didn't is p scummy.

[House]

MURDERCAT, I'm waiting for the words, "I am a hypocrite for misrepping you after accusing you of misrepping me."

Can you just explain what you meant by that post then instead of being all hostile?

Just because I don't want to/can't pull out my laptop to address your unnecessarily long walls that could have easily been made as separate posts doesn't mean i didn't read the posts,

and you claiming I didn't is p scummy.

Since you obviously missed it.

[House]

On another note, alage should be replaced today assuming no response to prod correct?

You sure seem to be concerned about the Algae slot.

Hard defending, asking mod about the replacement.

Worried your team is going to be cut in half?

[House]

House is losing a lot of town points for me on this page.

What a say nothing remark.

I don't really give a rat's ass whether I have town points, and it's not like you considered me town in the first place anyway.

[House]

Order of lyncability, from least to most.

House
Titus
Percifrax
Copper
Mizzytastic
Nahdia
Thor
Algae
Murdercat

Willing to lynch any of the bottom three today.

I'm done with this game and it's bullshit bickering until something productive happens.

[House]

Regardless of whether we flip roleblocker or goon, I need to be tracked tonight to put these ridiculous accusations to rest.

Granted, a tracker clear means nothing we mislynch, so let's not mislynch, neh?

[House]

Nevermore, other or isn't tracker.

Derp.

[House]

mizzy maybe just start skimming lol

Worked great for you, didn't it?

[House]

What an ick entrance.

[House]

do u want me to claim too, House?

Before someone thinks it's a grand idea , please no unwarranted claims.

Bit late for that.

[House]

Please engage with me if you guys have questions.

Will you marry me?

[House]

Please engage with me if you guys have questions.

Will you marry me?

Yes, on one condition -- if we win this game!

So I can't ask questions until we win?

[House]

So... how bout dem Yankees?

[House]

Mizzy has only read through page 6...

Do you think Muzzy might be scum with me?

[House]

Mizzy*

[House]

Why do you ask? You think scum?

I don't know, yet. There isn't enough to go on, which might well be a scum tactic in itself.

I asked you because you're considering me scum so I'm wondering if it makes sense if we would be scum together, which I agree makes more sense to consider post-flip.

[House]

VOTE: Performer

Let's consolidate our votes, please.

[House]

VOTE: Performer

Let's consolidate our votes, please.

Since Deadline is in 11 hours, I support this.
We really need a lynch.

I was actually just mocking Performer's post above, lol.

That said... carry on!

[House]

I'm scum?

Lol.

Find your own damned townreads, then.

[House]

Let me know how your noobsauce play works out for you.

[House]

I'm scum?

Lol.

Find your own damned townreads, then.

I also called you scummy - are we still doing that thing where I feel like you're ducking me? I called you out a lot yesterday on this and never heard so much as a peep.

You feel like a fake angry guy.

I'm not angry.

I just don't like you.

Nothing fake about that

[House]

You also don't like me or nahdia.
So who exactly do you like?

I've got nothing against you. What makes you say that?

[House]

I'm scum?

Lol.

Find your own damned townreads, then.

I also called you scummy - are we still doing that thing where I feel like you're ducking me? I called you out a lot yesterday on this and never heard so much as a peep.

You feel like a fake angry guy.

I'm not angry.

I just don't like you.

Nothing fake about that

No, it's pretty fake looking when you come up with a big attack post hanging a hat on me daring to bring pedantism in on you - then I attack back and you go dead silent and shift other people to scummier slots than me.

Looks like scum running scared rather than town who believed what they were saying.

You give yourself far too much credit.

Fact of the matter is, I find you to be obnoxious and rather unlikeable, so I was trying to be nice and leave you alone.

[House]

Your whole attitude is just...so hostile.
You're completely unwilling to work with us which really doesn't help the town. At all.

I've actually been rather apathetic about the game in general due to the above posts.

What can House do for you?

[House]

Your whole attitude is just...so hostile.
You're completely unwilling to work with us which really doesn't help the town. At all.

I've actually been rather apathetic about the game in general due to the above posts.

What can House do for you?

Townreads are what I really want/need from you right now. You've made your scumreads pretty clear.

Also, an explanation for why you decided to get a performer wagon/lynch without any reasons behind it.

I haven't paid this game much attention for a while. I need to refresh my memory.

I'll get to your questions sometime today.

[House]

Also, an explanation for why you decided to get a performer wagon/lynch without any reasons behind it.

My 786 was a sarcastic joke over Performer's 783.

Thor signed off on it, so I ran with it.

[House]

Townreads are what I really want/need from you right now. You've made your scumreads pretty clear.

Not really interested in providing scum with a hit list, or deterring them from making suboptimal kills.

[House]

Considering their later expectations towards certain people to diligently read through the stuff they posted (see Nahdia and murdercat), that's off. Either off, or really hypocritical.

No, it's not off.

I was criticizing people for not reading a

reads list

, not a wall war.

[House]

Townreads are what I really want/need from you right now. You've made your scumreads pretty clear.

Not really interested in providing scum with a hit list, or deterring them from making suboptimal kills.

Problem is, iirc, you specifically called out titus for not posting townreads, noting that it allows titus to scumread anyone without having to fight against their previous logic. And you're doing the same thing.
If everyone decided, "eh, I'm not posting townreads because it makes it easier for scum" then we would have just a fingerpointing session.

I was paranoid about Titus and criticizing her at every turn until i accepted that she was town. I do that every game we're in together because she burned the shit out of me as scum when I was learning to play.

Yeah, I was wrong for jumping at shadows. But that's all it was.

[House]

Ok, so if I say I'm paranoid about you and will continue to scumread yo without your townreads, will you give me what I need?

If I was scum, I already would have.

I'm not, so I have no interest in helping scum and you can view that how you will.

[House]

Fact of the matter is, I find you to be obnoxious and rather unlikeable, so I was trying to be nice and leave you alone.

[House]

That's fine by me too.

If this town things your single-mindedness on lynching me because I hate you deserves a mislynch, I have no interest in being any part of it.

[House]

VOTE: House

Cooperate please.

Who's less likely to be cooperative? Apathetic town who have no interest in the b/s Thor spews, or scum of any mindset?

Do you really see scum bringing this kind of a spotlight on themselves?

How dense.

[House]

VOTE: House

Let's do it.

[House]

You can all piss off.

[House]

That's hammer right? It says 5 to lynch but it should actually be 4/7. Quick thoughts in twilight about who House's partner is?

I'm town you scumfuck

[House]

That self-hammer is a scum claim as far as I'm concerned, 0 chance town does that. You are protecting someone.

Such shitposting will just be shown for what it is when I flip, idiot.

[House]

I've seen frustrated town self-hammer, it doesn't look like that.

I've seen scum gloat. It looks like you.

[House]

I don't know how many times I have to point out that i don't give two shits about my survival when i'm town (unless I'm a useful PR).

Dumbasses and scum push me into lynches anyway.

Is Thor a dumbass, folks?

Is he?

[House]

I've seen frustrated town self-hammer, it doesn't look like that.

I've seen scum gloat. It looks like you.

+1

But if you aren't scum why would you self hammer? Even if you don't care self hammering deprives town of info and ends their day early.

At this point I'm praying that this game even finishes...

1) See above post.

2) Now I don't have to care anymore.

[House]

You want me to believe that you are town who self hammered into lylo after 3 pages of day 2? BS. That's playing against win con and I'm not buying it.

What do I gain by lying to town (ie, NOT YOU) moments before I'm mod confirmed you massive tool?

[House]

^ This scum gloating will be transparent as fuck when I flip and MC should be lynched but don't quicklynch.

Use the day to find the scumfuck's buddy first.

[House]

PS: It's Thor.

[House]

PEdit-Ok house, whatever you say, scumboi.
And if some f***ing how you're actually town sure. I'll try to, you know, coax them to self lynch like you did.

It takes three to lynch in five person lylo.

Wtf are you on about?

[House]

This town deserves to lose.

How is apathetic town not transparent?

I hope you lose.

[House]

If you're for some reason just a lazy town player who's a d*** that wants to see us lose

Lazy, no. Dick, absolutely.

Wants to see town lose? Now I do. I've been pushed from apathetic to defeatist.

[House]

If House just volunteered for the ban list and really hammered as town

That's bullshit.

I got my reads and gave them. If town costs to continue their brilliant mislynch habits, scum deserves to win. Period.

[House]

I've never seen town self hammer 2 pages into a day when he thinks scum is pushing him. It doesn't make any sense to me. If he is town I think it's objectively playing against win con.

Look at my vote. It's obvious I didn't know it was a hammer.

[House]

If House flips scum then that's fine, I'd be pissed if I were his teammate so check for that (I quickly read Zyf seemed to react like that so if that's the case he is a good lynch), also look for people that seem to be overly cheerful about it.

So it's House/Zyf...

Maybe if it's Thor House and House flipped him one with the self vote.

But based on the very same content it's House/Thor?

You're better than this, copper.

[House]

I've never seen town self hammer 2 pages into a day when he thinks scum is pushing him. It doesn't make any sense to me. If he is town I think it's objectively playing against win con.

Look at my vote. It's obvious I didn't know it was a hammer.

But there's still absolutely no reason to self vote.

Self-Voting/Hammering:
Most of us know that there are very, very few circumstances when self-voting and/or hammering (as Town) is actually helpful to the town. This type of behavior should be kept out of Newbie games, because it does not teach the new players how to play the game correctly. You are not playing to fulfill your win condition as a Town player when you self-vote or self-hammer - a better example to set would be to show the new players how to talk your way out of that situation. Failing that, let the other players lynch you, as you're supposed to do. Remember that voting is the primary method we use to judge people's alignments, and by taking away someone's vote by self-voting, you are denying the town needed information.
Of course, if you're scum then feel free to self-vote/self-hammer. Self-voting/self-hammering as scum denies the town information and IS playing toward your win condition by confusing the remaining townies and allowing your partner to hide in the confusion.

i mean, this is hardly a newbie game anymore but y'know, still

1) I self-vote when I'm wagoned over bullshit reasons as town. I do not self-hammer town. Not knowingly, anyway. It's not meta, it's just me.

2) Am I the IC in this game? No. So that copy/paste was a ginormous waste of time.

[House]

1) I self-vote when I'm wagoned over bullSmurf reasons as town. I do not self-hammer town. Not knowingly, anyway. It's not meta, it's just me.

2) Am I the IC in this game? No. So that copy/paste was a ginormous waste of time.

1. That is bad play and pretty close to a site rule infraction. If you're not playing the game for fun - replace out, don't ruin the game for others just because you're not having fun.

2. Sure - the lesson on good play still holds regardless though.

1) Not always. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't provide anything useful to the game.

2) Irrelevant. It's not something I'm bound by unless I'm an IC, and I've never voted myself as an IC so the wall paste was unnecessary.

[House]

Copper, I'm sorry if my natural personality makes you feel like I'm scum.

I just figured that transparency is usually better than hiding things from town
in a /newbie/, anyway
hahahaha oh the irony

PEdit-House
1) How does that help you?
2) Point is it's considered playing against wincon if you're town. Meaning if the mod is being really strict, you technically can only pull this as scum to avoid modkill. Granted, drixx messed up so they may just be letting you go.

1) reasons
2) That's your (limited) interpretation, but it's not reality. There is much to be learned from wagons on raging/self-voting town.

[House]

so if i'm somehow scum, who exactly is my buddy?

I can vote here, when we're ready to lynch.

[House]

dont like either of these wagons

Start doing something to change the situation then.

950 would like a word with you.

[House]

There is much to be learned from wagons on raging/self-voting town.

So you're claiming that was all a ploy and you faked the whole thing?

No, I'm claiming there's stuff to be learned from it.

[House]

@House
956

Bitching at me is not the same thing as answering my question.

[House]

no
by the way
L-1

You can't House.

Only House can House.

VOTE: Zyf

[House]

Good news, Nahdia.

I believe you're town now.

[House]

But the comment I made about house was a LEGITIMATE CONCERN I DID SOMETHING AND WAS A SERIOUS APOLOGY
god
frik you guys, I'm out

Bro, you did nothing to apologize for to my knowledge

[House]

Zyf just totally dropped the summer on Thor and I understand why he apologized now.

... wow.

[House]

Dropped the dime*

[House]

Oh shut up copper. Get your context straight. I asked for time while referencing HOUSE. Then, the Zyf thing started happening, and I specifically pointed out something Zyf had said and labelled it as something I find to be moderately scummy.

Dude. My iso is like 3 posts. How can you get that wrong?

Good that's what I was hoping for as you otherwise plodder along and fence-sit like no other (which makes you scumread me).

I think it's house.

Copper, think about it

I was boiling over due to Thor. Zyf felt guilty because his teammate was the one pushing me into a rage.

Then he got pissed at his teammate for bussing him and sold him out.

[House]

Gotta say Thor's impressive as scum if this is his game.

You're better.

I was still paranoid that you might be scum until this page.

[House]

@House
I'm fine with a Thor lynch tomorrow, if you are next in case of a town flip.

I'd bet the House on Scum!Thor.

[House]

VOTE: Thor


I don't buy his backpedaling. I think Zyf was genuinely pissed at being bussed and returned the favor.

[House]

What did I backpeddle on?

Also, still looking for an answer on this;

There is much to be learned from wagons on raging/self-voting town.

So you're claiming that was all a ploy and you faked the whole thing?

No you're not. I answered it.

[House]

VOTE: House

Let's do it.

:O
!!!!!
WTF
That's hammer!
What the actual heck house
Sorry if I did something to upset you...

The apology looked sincere, which confused me because he's done absolutely nothing wrong.

Vote: Zyf

In town/scum behavior he looks the worst at the House vote, clearly House looks the worst in general but sadly we don't always lynch that

Thor votes Zyf right after the vote count was reset.

VOTE: House

Let's do it.

:O
!!!!!
WTF
That's hammer!
What the actual heck house
Sorry if I did something to upset you...

This is scummy.

I would agree.

Thor knew that copper was onto Zyf. What happened to copper, anyway?

no
by the way
L-1

You can't House.

Only House can House.

VOTE: Zyf

I House.

OK. I did this for 1 reason
because i want to make this clear for future games, since I jumped into being immediately thrown under the bus
I'm mafia roleblocker

But the comment I made about house was a LEGITIMATE CONCERN I DID SOMETHING AND WAS A SERIOUS APOLOGY
god
frik you guys, I'm out

I believe this post. Why was he concerned? Because I self-voted. Why did I self-voted? Frustration/anger/rage/homicidal thoughts about Thor.

Zyf didn't like the way Thor was manipulating me and felt guilty because they're on the same team.

@House
I'm fine with a Thor lynch tomorrow, if you are next in case of a town flip.

This is why copper got NK'ed. He has the juice to push through a Thor lynch and Thor thinks he can just continue to bullshit and manipulate me since it worked so well in the past.

[House]

There is much to be learned from wagons on raging/self-voting town.

So you're claiming that was all a ploy and you faked the whole thing?

No, I'm claiming there's stuff to be learned from it.

So you're saying it was all real?

Abso-fucking-lutely.

[House]

Vote: Cerberus

Doubtful.

Why?

(I neglected to read the game over the night, this is a legitimate questions , I don't know if my predecessor did anything alignment indicative at any point)

...

............

..........................

Stahp.

[House]

im not even sure who u replaced tbh.

Percifrax, and he's town.

Like... one step below mod-confirmed.

[House]

Because at least Nahdia ought to recall how I react to the idea of buddy bussing - so I'm basically confirmed.

Because your self-awareness of your meta means you're incapable of changing it to appeal to a player that you know is also aware of that aspect of it, amirite?

[House]

VOTE: Thor

L-1

Good vote.

Bad math.

[House]

VOTE: Thor

L-1

Good vote.

Bad

math.

Fix't