VOTE: Tortle
Mini Normal 2316 | Halloween | Endgame
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I know it's not believeable but I decided to vote before seeing wiz voting-
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Python, as a person eho if I recall correctly intentionally drove a misfade on heip in the past as an SK, don't you think heip is just being his usual limbait self?
I'm not saying it's town-indicative for him but I really don't think it's scum indicative.-
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Oh, you are new to playing with me aren't you?In post 32, OutWorldER wrote: 24 was really bad and I don't see a town motivation to post it.
The motivation was that I knew that some smartass will come along and say "oh Dragon doesn't have original reads and is just sheeping Wiz", and I wanted to counteract that preemptively.-
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I like how you are just gonna say that every single game we play lolIn post 33, usesPython wrote: DE's normally like that, I don't think 24 is alignment indicative
Except when you are scum. I'm pretty sure you never said it when you were scum.
Which specific games did you skim?In post 34, OutWorldER wrote: If you could produce a specific example to support that because I briefly skimmed some other games of his and nothing really strikes me the way that 24 does. It just really hits as a scum fretting over apperance whereas I think Town would probably be chill enough to just let the naked vote lie.
I don't have a specific instance of this off the top of my head, but I believe I did worse-looking things as town in many games. Like in my first Newbie game where I lied about lying about my reads (long story), as town, because I wanted to avoid getting mislimmed (I mean, it worked! And I was a PR who managed to confirm scum later on so it was a good idea to do that).
Good afternoon to you too!In post 39, Naerys wrote: Morning folks
You are not allowed to talk about ongoing games, even if you are dead (or not a player at all, or replaced out) in these games.In post 43, heipizhu4 wrote: I can understand DE's 24 because I got limmed on d1 in my last game for 'awkwardness' and it is +town for him to throw quick defence on me to make sure I'm not going to be pushed all E-1 on early d1. (and talking about another game as a dead player is allowed right?) The action can be read as pocketing though, but I tend to believe it's the former.
However yes, I was thinking along the lines of "heip is usually limbait so I won't consider limbaity posts as scummy, coming from him"-
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Don't you mean OuterWorld instead of WarTortle? I also confused them lol.In post 49, TheHoldSteady wrote:
24 also caught my eye on my initial readthrough (though not to the same intensity as Wartortle is making out). But unless you're bold enough to defend your partner's bad page one post on page two, I'll take this as face value.In post 33, usesPython wrote:
DE's normally like that, I don't think 24 is alignment indicativeIn post 32, OutWorldER wrote: VOTE: DragonEater70
24 was really bad and I don't see a town motivation to post it.
So, what else? Wartortle scum for continuing to push this narrative even when there's new evidence to work against it?
VOTE: Wartortle-
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Okay I think this means THS is probably isn't scum with either of these two
And independently of that I have a slight TR on him.
Also I think I will just openwolf this game because I've never done that as either alignment and it sounds like fun
Uhhhh I'm not actually sure how to do that.
*pause*
Okay, how about this:
Wow this is a bad push! Very bad post.In post 32, OutWorldER wrote: VOTE: DragonEater70
24 was really bad and I don't see a town motivation to post it.
VOTE: OWER
You reek of being scum lol
Guys am I doing it right? Do I look like a mafia now?-
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Naerys, don't act so surprised
I know I will never be limmed Day 1
*horror dawns on me as the split second I finish this sentence a wagon forms on me*-
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Tortle, walk me through these votes
If THS is scum I also wanna see it.-
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Arrrgh fine
VOTE: THS
He's probably town but I'm supposed to be openwolfing so voting for people who are probably town is good for keeping a wolfy image.-
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Yeah I had the same thought process lol.In post 67, Wartortle wrote:
i saw 59 and it failed the vibe check so i voted OWERIn post 64, DragonEater70 wrote: Tortle, walk me through these votes
i then went back to THS' case and realized that it sucked-
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Reads or something:
Above null
Wiz
Tortle
DarkStar
Python
NULL LINE - Everyone else
OWER
THS
Below null
I also have a huge desire to pocket Naerys so I'm going to say she's town for now as well.-
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Well Wiz is new, I haven't played with him though to know if he actually has thought processes like that or not as town.
I will however say that my early TR of him falls flat on reread, so he's actually at a lower spot than Python on my readlist now.-
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How does me voting THS track with having the same thought process as Tortle about THS making a bad case?In post 90, SmileyDude1 wrote: @Dragoneater70
How does this.
Track with this.In post 76, DragonEater70 wrote:
Yeah I had the same thought process lol.In post 67, Wartortle wrote:
i saw 59 and it failed the vibe check so i voted OWERIn post 64, DragonEater70 wrote: Tortle, walk me through these votes
i then went back to THS' case and realized that it suckedIn post 65, DragonEater70 wrote: Arrrgh fine
VOTE: THS
He's probably town but I'm supposed to be openwolfing so voting for people who are probably town is good for keeping a wolfy image.
Really?-
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Didn't he nail two scum? Or was he TRing worst? (I haven't read that game fully but I have skimmed it)In post 92, TheHoldSteady wrote: Wiz is actually pretty good (at least as town). The one game I played with him he correctly nailed a scum that I had incorrectly read as town.-
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IDK if you are intentionally reaching here as scum or not, so I'm gonna go read your town game and decide based on that. However, the openwolf comment was just a joke appended to a real vote.In post 96, SmileyDude1 wrote: It came off to me like you were originally voting Hold as a joke (Openwolf comment), but then decided to retroactively justify said vote by which felt kind of weird to me.
Well, I only townread THS for that post. And I had the exact same process as Tortle, so that should be a sufficient explanation for you.In post 96, SmileyDude1 wrote: Mainly wondering how you went from Hold being lean town to lowest read that quickly.-
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Having skimmed your ISO that game, I feel you are a lot slimier here than in that game
It's probably partially confbias, but I think it warrants a vote and we'll see how this develops.
VOTE: Smiley-
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Mostly vibes, but specifically I felt your approach in that game was less forced - you sounded pretty relaxed whereas here I feel a slightly forced tone in your posts.-
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Oh, well.In post 109, usesPython wrote: He read my mind in 90
I think this is a good point for me to say goodnight and try to form better reads tomorrow.
Cya all!-
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Actually,
Spoiler: unofficial vc
@Smiley, that was E-2 before you unvoted, not after (not sure if that's what you meant).
Anyway, while I don't think THS's wagon is NECESSARILY scum motivated, I do think it's >rand that there would be at least one scum who voted them (regardless of THS's alignment), simply because that's how early game wagons work. I like Wartortle, I hate myself but know am not scum*, I semi-like Pythin and I'm trying to pocket Naerys.
So that leaves SmileyDude1 who I am being told is towny this game, and OWER who I feel is lacking vibes-wise.
VOTE: OWER
*this is a joke, I don't hate myself-
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Wow I actually managed to get the openwolfing vibe right this time.
I am impressed.
Who knew openwolfing as town could be so fun. I guess I understand Firebringer now.-
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Please elaborate on thisIn post 108, AnimatedWiz wrote: I, personally, am finding myself scumreading Wartortle—I admit it’s just base intuition for that read, though.-
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Is it?In post 122, usesPython wrote:
This is pretty spicyIn post 120, DragonEater70 wrote: Also Wiz could definitely be scum here.VOTE: Wiz
In post 124, usesPython wrote: I feel like Naerys has the worst vote on the wagon, but like, not enough to do anything about it
YahIn post 125, usesPython wrote:Like this just gives off bad vibes, feels like she wants to push THS without calling wartle town
Also, Naerys is limbait 99% of the time.-
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That's trueIn post 129, Naerys wrote: Scum keeps underestimating me tho
I wasn't trying to say you are a bad player lol-
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I mean I can see that with regard to his Page 1 posts, but what about other pages? I don't feel his thought process on THS v. OWER was ulteriorly-motivated.In post 127, AnimatedWiz wrote: Every post I read of his strikes me as… alteriorly-motivated?
That sounds like a reasonable explanation of itIn post 127, AnimatedWiz wrote: or even maybe I’m subconsciously opposed to Wartortle mostly due to him thinking I’m
scummy?
It definitely reads as a playstyle thing to me. But Okay, it's your biggest SR. Who's your second biggest? Who are your TRs?In post 127, AnimatedWiz wrote: I just feel like Wartortle is trying to do a lot of persuading very early off of very little, which could be a playstyle thing… but as of now, best scumread I have.-
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Wow I'm actually getting a Newbie game vibe out of this game, which is enjoyable because Newbies are pretty enjoyable I'd say.
Anyhow, time to powerwolf.
Is that scummy?In post 132, AnimatedWiz wrote: His posts on THS are, to me, a very strong argument for so early on
WDYM?In post 132, AnimatedWiz wrote: likely to pressure THS like everyone else was with their votes, though
Are your reads normally like this early? Or do you normally have more townreads?In post 132, AnimatedWiz wrote: I don’t feel like I have any other substantial reads just yet—most everyone who’s posted is either a bit suspicious in my opinion, or null from not having posted much (we still have two players who haven’t said anything, after all). I tend to start out being suspicious of everyone, so it always takes a bit for me to townread someone early on.
I'm aware there are two players who haven't posted and I'm definitely considering the possibility that one or both could be scum, but that doesn't really stop me from having reads on anyone else.
Okay that's another thing that concerns me - are we all null to you? Or are we all suspicious to you? How come?In post 133, AnimatedWiz wrote: I will say, I am appreciating you, Python, and Smiley providing a lot of thoughts on these posts—I think that being able to see them as D1 goes on will allow me to sort y’all far easier due to the volume of material (and being able to see the trajectory of it through time).-
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Hmm, I see. A quick meta dive makes me hesitant to believe you about this, because you had more early reads in Mini 2311 than in Mini 2313, but I will say that there are things in your play that could be more similar to 2311 than 2313.In post 135, AnimatedWiz wrote: Usually I’m a bit slower to develop solid reads than other players, yes
That is pretty valid, I'll give you that.In post 135, AnimatedWiz wrote: Juxtaposition is often a great tool for me.
However, I noticed a lot of your thoughts are "I could see this being either town or scum", which is slightly concerning because it's exactly the opposite of what you praise Python for - how can you be held accountable if you don't take stances?
Additionally, the thing that initially prompted me to scumread you was your complete lack of read on the THS vs OWER situation. I feel you kinda skirted around it by asking Afrayed for HIS read on THS and then saying you didn't like Tortle's aggressivenes - but I want to know what's YOUR read on THS/OWER. Do you think one of them is scum? Who? Or do you think both/neither are scum?
I know, I was looking at different posts and trying to figure out what you were saying, since you said "most everyone who’s posted is either a bit suspicious in my opinion, or null from not having posted much" (outside of Tortle), and then mentioned that this Trio will be more readable LATER ON because we gave content - so I wanted to verify whether or not you are saying that we aren't readable right now.In post 136, AnimatedWiz wrote: I was not implying that the three of y’all I mentioned were specifically null or suspicious for having a lot of thoughts
Nah it's just me trying to pressure everything I can until you either mafslip or show yourself to be town.In post 136, AnimatedWiz wrote: while you’re very meticulous with your questions to me (which to me rings as someone who wants to learn from the rest of the town to better cooperate later on)
Okay this made me chuckle. Of course it's not a cover for openwolfing, I am ACTUALLY openwolfing. Which alignment I'm doing this is the only question. But just so it's clear, I decided to play in an intentionally scummy way because I like trying out different playstyles and I feel this playstyle is the most fitting for this game.In post 136, AnimatedWiz wrote: the repeated joke about openwolfing (and your subsequent behavior of trying to take charge and posting a lot) makes me pause,as it could very easily be a cover for actually openwolfing
Also, I don't really feel I've tried to take charge, but if you do feel that way then that flatters me.
Hmmm, the thing is - have I actually done anything to pocket Naerys? Not really. Saying I would pocket her is entirely an in-joke based on the fact that I think Naerys is a fiercely independent person who will never agree to be pocketed. Maybe if I bribe her with some chocolate she will change her mind though...In post 136, AnimatedWiz wrote: After all, if you say you’ll pocket someone in a joking manner, you have a defense prepped in case anyone accuses you of it later.
I don't think I announced any intent to lead? Where have I done that?In post 136, AnimatedWiz wrote: You’ve also been very, uh, flip-floppy so far? It’s not bad to change your reads early, but the way you’ve kind of announced your intent to lead and be convincing is a mismatch with your actual reads and votes.
Regarding flip-flopping, yes I've changed my a few of my reads because this is early and they're mostly weak reads and I'm adapting them as the situation evolves and people post more content. It actually gives me pause that you are pointing it out as something that gives you pause - do you expect me to stick to my page 1 scumlean of tortle after he's provided plenty more content to read him off of? Should I continue voting Smiley after it was affirmed to me that he is being towny and in his town meta (by people who know him better than me), and that his thought process matches the thought process of other townies?
This actually feels like a weird shade you are throwing my way, sorry to say that.-
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I'm not sure I agree. I did post quite a few questions, but i also posted quite a few original thoughts - I just counted and aside from the last few posts interrogating you (which are that way BECAUSE they are interrogation), the ratio of original thoughts to asking other players about their thoughts is about 2 to 1 in favor of original thoughts (yeah I know, being overly concerned with yourself is scummy yada yada - the point is that I think Wiz is stretching the truth here quite wildly).In post 136, AnimatedWiz wrote: You have more questions that reads, and those questions tend to have a lot more text than your own feelings on things (not all the time the though—posts like 118 are substantial).
In post 136, AnimatedWiz wrote:Additionally, you seem to be making a lot of strong arguments with lacking evidence in the vein of what I was talking about with Wartortle (like 118, again),and also sort of collaborating with him?Not sure what you mean by this
Do you not normally collaborate with your townreads?-
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Who're your scumreads?In post 140, BlackStar wrote: The interaction between DragonEater and Annie feels TvT to me-
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Also I just wanna say:
While I believe a lot (all?) of Ani's posting could come from town, I've caught scum early game in the past and then let them go because it was "TvT". I want to continue this until I actually feel confident about Wiz one way or another.-
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I'm not sure :/
Smiley and THS I was scumreading at some point as well as OWER, but none of these are as strong right now as they were.
I think I want to see more posts from all three of them honestly.
Why are you scumreading these two?
Pedit: I don't really agree Naerys :/-
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BlackStar (IDK why I keep calling you DarkStar in my head), do you still feel Wiz is posting like in his scumgame?-
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@BlackStar - I've been getting the same weird vibes from SD1, but Python and THS are saying he's town so :shrug:
@Ani - when I say "openwolf" I mean "play in an intentionally scummy way, without making any effort to appear towny". Usually that term is indeed applied to mafia, but it can be applied to town as well.
Anyway I really wanna read more about your meta, because your playstyle here is quite hard for me to objectively read, I feel. I will do that tomorrow.
@OWER - can see your viewpoint.-
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THS please unvote, I don't want day ending early.In post 169, Dannflor wrote: Enchant replaces blackbear.-
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I never understand how people manage to break them though.In post 172, BlackStar wrote: I always mess up quotes lol-
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Why did you wait, and what changed your mind?
Also, is nobody going to ask why I think this feels like a Newbie game?-
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No, it's because so far I've always seen the most analysis and the most reaching occurring in Newbies - Normals tend to be laid back in my experience, and Themes tend to be spammy with very little analysis and a lot of mech talk and vibe-based reads. Here there's actual analysis which feels distinctly like how Newbies are played.In post 178, Naerys wrote: This is a simple game. So finding scum should be simple. Right?
Hmm yeah I agree. It does read very much like town!THS (though I don't recall having much experience if any with scum!him).In post 179, BlackStar wrote: I wanted to see more posts from THS and Smileydude. THS raging, calling everybody dumb and self voting felt really townie. Smiley hasn’t posted in a while, so I want to pressure him into being more active so I can sort him
Voting as a way to get someone to post is a bit ineffective in my opinion, but sure, I guess that's valid.
First of all, I didn't explain the reasoning but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.In post 182, Wartortle wrote: lazy ass reads
Second of all, yeah I was lazy when I wrote that.
I'd say that will get you mildly townread by 60% of players and scumread by 30% of players (not in this game but in general).In post 183, Wartortle wrote: will i get townread if i post stuff that vaguely sounds like content a lot
on the chat mafia sites i played on that was true
I agree. I think town!Python has a slightly unusual way of looking at spiciness, so I don't think that's scum indicative for them.In post 184, Wartortle wrote: this is the least spicy take i have seen in my life
THS being scum doesn't necessitate you being town, BUT you are towny regardless and I find it weird that other people aren't seeing that (I don't mind Naerys not saying it as much as I mind Wiz scumreading you).In post 185, Wartortle wrote: why would ths being scum necessitate me being town? why would naerys be expected to call me town there?-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Why?In post 194, Wartortle wrote:
yeah it is, unfortunatelyIn post 179, BlackStar wrote: THS raging, calling everybody dumb and self voting felt really townie.
i'm gonna VOTE: python
ALso, VOTE: Enchant
I really hated that entrance.-
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Oh okay, thanksIn post 198, usesPython wrote:
Quoting from the preview can break quotesIn post 175, DragonEater70 wrote:
I never understand how people manage to break them though.In post 172, BlackStar wrote: I always mess up quotes lol
I second the question, even though I don't think a self-vote is scummy.In post 197, AnimatedWiz wrote:Why do you say that—is it just this unvote, or including the self-vote?
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VOTE: WizIn post 208, AnimatedWiz wrote: What do you think of DE, Enchant? I mean, aside from the return vote?
This is such a useless question to ask and it's making me feel Wiz is just trying to appear like he's solving and engaging, but doesn't have any real intent behind it.
You are right, but I feel town!Enchant does make an effort to solve while scum Enchant doesn't. It's probably too early to judge, but honestly I expected town!Enchant to come in and vote someone and talk about how that person is obvscum, even if it was in a trollish way and with troll reasoning.In post 213, SmileyDude1 wrote:
Can you elaborate on this? AFAIK Enchant seems to have a jokey NotMafia-esque vibe to them so gut instinct is that's an NAI entrance for them.In post 204, DragonEater70 wrote:
Why?In post 194, Wartortle wrote:
yeah it is, unfortunatelyIn post 179, BlackStar wrote: THS raging, calling everybody dumb and self voting felt really townie.
i'm gonna VOTE: python
ALso, VOTE: Enchant
I really hated that entrance.
However that read is a weaker scumread than that that I just got on Wiz from asking that question.-
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I only have one where I played start to finish (I don't count 3p traitor as "scum") , here you go:
viewtopic.php?t=91408-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Ah, is that what you were trying to ask?
I didn't understand it at all lol
UNVOTE:-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I feel so tooIn post 226, usesPython wrote: I feel like you're tunneling here tbh-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Since when do you care about looking suspicious?
Also I guess you do tend to troll before you solve as town so nvm
Who is this in reference to?In post 231, Enchant wrote: I am torn, i think both you have valid points-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Meh I don't have good scumreads
Should I just engage sheep mode and sheep the best player here?-
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In post 239, OutWorldER wrote:
:p unfortunately I work closing shifts which bites into most of my free time. I've been trying to keep up but it's difficult.In post 236, Naerys wrote: OutWorldER(says he likes to pressure lurkers but lurks himself)
I don't really agree with Wortle's opener being scum theater it looked a lot more like townie trying to bait interaction to me and I think he's been fairly townie since then as well.
Keeping my vote on Hu Tao because 217 is awful.
Wow I completely missed 217.
VOTE: Hu Tao-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Q: what made BStar move up to null from sus?In post 236, Naerys wrote: Null:BlackStar
(as he was here:)
In post 152, Naerys wrote: It feels like " look how i am working with town to catch the scum", attempt to get some info and position urself into town reads
Also can I complain about 90% of the playerlist using he/him pronouns which makes me paranoid that I'm misgendering people every time I write "he"? Oh is that only a me problem? NVM then-
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I don't have enough meta on Wiz to say this is absolutely damning, but I feel the fact that he constantly acts as if he doesn't mind being pushed at all reads like newbscum rather than town.
Can someone explain what is so towny about wiz?-
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