Mini 2321: Classic Commercials (Postgame)

[Flavor Leaf]

Yuck, nerd shit.

Fell for it.

I’m baiting you to make statements that come across less likable.

there’s levels to this

[Flavor Leaf]

What… happened?

I went to go see the new Godzilla movie (was a real return to form—highly recommend) and suddenly the gamestate has mutated into… this. Maybe we should stop talking for a minute and let everyone else catch up and say their pieces?

I think hearing everyone else’s thoughts could be really useful for both sorting and actually getting an elimination through.

Oh my gosh, top 3 movies of the year so good loved it

[Flavor Leaf]

I finally cared about human characters in a Godzilla movie

$15m budget?!?!?!

The cinematography!!

[Flavor Leaf]

What… happened?

I went to go see the new Godzilla movie (was a real return to form—highly recommend) and suddenly the gamestate has mutated into… this. Maybe we should stop talking for a minute and let everyone else catch up and say their pieces?

I think hearing everyone else’s thoughts could be really useful for both sorting and actually getting an elimination through.

It's intentional chaos and noise from scum.

Yeah, smart in theory of them to choose me.

I had a great case on Hu Tao, but they caught me while inebriated and had me talking about myself

Def covered my case up

[Flavor Leaf]

Hu Tao sent Cakez to me as an olive branch hoping to disengage from their situation, and Gob kept the Leaf speak going

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, Naerys town

[Flavor Leaf]

RCEnigma/Bingle/Roden/Flavor

Noncommittal Hmm.

I feel my play has lined up with this pretty whole heartedly.

Other than a ring, idk how to commit more to it, but idk if we’re there yet

[Flavor Leaf]

I will note that I have been meaning to start the rabbit hole known as Terry Pratchet.

Going Postal was solid for me.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Gob

Wanna hammer, Dunn?

[Flavor Leaf]

Tinfoil of Roden Hu Tao

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, I got plenty.

Pretty forgiving on a Day 1.

Don’t gotta be right on Day 1, just gotta be setup to get there starting around Day 3

[Flavor Leaf]

Me and fl can’t be nked this is gonna be pretty quick.

VOTE: gob

They don’t even know why

[Flavor Leaf]

No you aren't lol

lol

[Flavor Leaf]

dont counterclaim that, thats a claim bait

[Flavor Leaf]

Gob's giving MarciScum energy

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: gob

Fine by me. I’ll take the benefit for my meta here since nobody is playing how i want them to anyway.

Surely the Doctor self-voted and tried to die...

Maf Doc. Which helps imply Gunsmith possibility in the game, meaning Hu Tao legit was setting up to defend against a Gunsmith guilty.

[Flavor Leaf]

i think a townGob flip helps town win the game anyways

[Flavor Leaf]

Interesting night kill?

lol

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Flavor Leaf]

In all seriousness, Bingle/Dunn have partner equity imo.

[Flavor Leaf]

However, with me living, my theory of Bingle town read pushing me then killing me didn’t pan out, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Dunnstral hammering the way they did looks like scum locking in the hammer before people would get PR scared.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, what is the argument on Hu Tao? I see the issue with how they handled gob during D1, but before that they seemed rather townish in my opinion.

I have a big ol case in my ISO, I’ll link it later if i remember. It’s a big wall post.

I’m not too interested in pushing there, I think Dunn looks pretty bad, and I still have that “eh, Tao could be town here” but i still think it’s more likely she’s scum.

Hu Tao also comes across townie when they are scum, but I’d like to hear your town case. Hope it’s not on tone.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Hu Tao - do you know you’re MBTI?

[Flavor Leaf]

Your* fml

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Flavor

[Flavor Leaf]

I was gonna ask ‘do you know if you’re _____’

But deleted the if and decided to put MBTI in the blank. That’s how it generally happens but i deserve to die now

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Flavor

I’m half trolling cuz i used the wrong your

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Flavor Leaf]

@Hu Tao - do you know you’re MBTI?

INFJ. How come?

I had a reason, but forgot it in the grammar debacle.

I’m ENFJ.

[Flavor Leaf]

They feel manipulative. Going after Gob yesterday and pushing Bingle and I today.

I feel I’m pushing Hu Tao more than Bingle here. Me being alive makes Bingle town more likely after their setup yesterday.

[Flavor Leaf]

End of day

gob

(7): Roden,

ssbm_kyouko

, AnimatedWiz, Naerys, Flavor Leaf, RCEnigma, Dunnstral
SirCakez (2): Thomith, Hu Tao
RCEnigma (1): SirCakez
ssbm_kyouko (1): Celebloki
Flavor Leaf (1):

gob

Roden (1): Bingle


Who was the counterwagon? Cakez? I think Wiz was the main counterwagon of Day 1.

1.05

gob

(4): SirCakez, Bingle, Roden, Flavor Leaf
AnimatedWiz (3):

ssbm_kyouko

, Hu Tao, Dunnstral
Flavor Leaf (1):

gob

Hu Tao (1): Naerys
RCEnigma (1): RCEnigma
Dunnstral (1): Thomith

ssbm_kyouko

(1): AnimatedWiz

Not voting (1): Celebloki

Roden and I being on Gob for both of these, Roden never leaving, is pretty townie for them, imo. Like, I just don't see the purpose of going for Gob that way as scum. I won't use that defense for me, but there were much better pushes. It's confirmed to have been a lhf fade. The AnimatedWiz wagon looks bad here. It's a 'there's scum on the wagon, or Wiz is scum' kinda thing.

Gob wagon can have scum or not, i think Gob's the type that scum would for sure just let town try to misfade, which is why I think it's not impossible for either 1.05 or end of day to be all town.

That being said, I think there's only 1 max scum on Gob in 1.05. If there are 2, it doesn't make a lot of sense here that Gob wagon stayed as the main one, even after Bingle/Cakez moved away. And I already explained why it's kinda weird for Roden (and myself, but I digress) to stay on Gob that way.

Also, why is Cakez on RCEnigma over me?

End of day wagon has 1 scum in Dunnstral or Naerys, or no scum at all. I'm already town reading Naerys, but for completionist's sake. RCEnigma, idk, i just dont see this as scum.

Thomith and Hu Tao on SirCakez means there's likely at least a scum in that section, and the fact that overlaps with the Wiz one, I really do think we're living in a Hu Tao Scum world.

Hu Tao, Dunnstral, Cakez is my solve right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Cakez and Dunnstral playing scum objective based, and I'll quote the post with my Hu Tao case

[Flavor Leaf]

UNVOTE: Gob

Day got juicier.

Hu Tao TMI’ing Gob possibility tips the scale to where I think Gob is more likely to flip town than scum, whereas before the chance was more likely scum than town, which is always a good roll on Day 1.

Gob got White Knighted.

Fun thing about this is both Gob and Wiz were my candidates. It’s possible they are both town.

I don’t think I was hiding it very well, but I think Hu Tao is pretty obv scum here.

Not necessarily caring about their fade today because I think it’s just infinitely hard to fade someone like Hu Tao Scum on a Day 1, also in ways it’s not worth it sometimes.

But by their own admission, they were trying to ‘do nothing’ to get town read. This means they are actively trying to position themselves in a specific way in the game.

On top of this, when I stated they had done things already, they were salty because they thought they had ‘literally done nothing’. That reeks of scum being upset they got caught for wrong reasons.

Now the advocate for Vig on FL after I advocated for Cop on Hu Tao.

I would say bar a couple players, I am generally a solid town read player for most players. The difference is, I’m wanting Hu Tao checked, which if they are town, is very beneficial in the long run, especially towards someone who has been actively trying to become town read.

By their own admission, they’ve been ‘doing nothing’ on purpose to get town read, and that’s like the perfect investigative action onto a slot that’s in the background like that, and especially on a sneaky scum like her.

She advocates for a Vig on me, taking me out of the game.

That is a direct Threat Challenging of me. I want to town read Hu Tao if she’s town.

She wants me to die.

She doesn’t have to worry about reading me here.

It also helps guide a Vig off of scum team and onto a claimed Vanilla Townie.

If I am the only death, and ANYONE claims Vig, Hu Tao is scum here.

None of that maybe Vig targeted same player, maybe someone protected.

I have coasted so many games from a Vig claim, partner Vig claim, that I know how to set things up like that.

That is a potential crumb setup by Hu Tao in case they get Gunsmith guiltied they have that to fall back on.

And let me say, it’s not one of these that make Hu Tao scum, it is the collection of these together.

Individually, some of these could be townie even, but together, Hu Tao is a scum slot.

Celebloki
Thomith
Naerys

RCEnigma
Roden
Gob
AnimatedWiz

ssbm_kyouko
Dunnstral
Bingle
SirCakez

Hu Tao

Bout where I'm at. I think there's probably 1 scum in my top 2 tiers, and then 2 scum in my bottom 3. This is more doing pools rather than a tier list, like for instance, I can make a Bingle/Kyouko town case, but I am paranoid of Bingle. Like I have a hard time seeing Kyouko make that case on Gob as scum, however, the Kyouko/Hu Tao on AnimatedWiz earlier is hard to not see it as potential partner, however, this goes in Hu Tao favor if scum Tao/kyouko town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Interesting night kill?

Oh did she claim doc?

Interesting night kill?

lol

VOTE: Hu Tao

Why am I scum again?

these posts just dont sit right with me. The interesting night kill? looks so fake to me and i usually get pinged hard when Hu Tao's scum doing stuff like this.

[Flavor Leaf]

Cakez and Dunnstral playing scum objective based, and I'll quote the post with my Hu Tao case

I think that’s at most two scum, and even then it’s a stretch. I’m down to hear a Hu Tao case though.

2 is definitely not a stretch imo. if 2 of them flipped scum, i dont think the overall narrative would be 'oh, wow, im so surprised 2 of those 3 flipped scum'

so i hard disagree with it being a stretch if 2 of those 3 are scum.

i'm okay calling it a stretch if 3. i dont care to partner/associate them, all 3 of them are individual reads.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Flavor Leaf]

FL, I don't recall you responding to my reasoning on towncakez. Did you? If not, would you care to?

i dont remember it

[Flavor Leaf]

Leaf and Bingle are linked up like wired ear buds that get tangled in your pocket

They're either both scum and power wolfing or both town, and I think the latter is more likely

i really dont think this is true. i am slightly suspicious of Bingle right now. idk how you get this.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Dunnstral

I'm a little confused that you are scumreading Hu Tao but then following where she is voting.

just cuz im scum reading her doesnt make her scum

[Flavor Leaf]

i think working with scum reads is a good thing too + i already had said I see Dunnstral as scum.

Roden pinged me a little bit this page too.

[Flavor Leaf]

cuz im town and can see Bingle as scum.

dont get the have to be aligned comment

[Flavor Leaf]

Eh, i just dont necessarily agree it makes Cakez town, i feel ive seen Cakez play this exact way towards me as both alignments.

[Flavor Leaf]

Not like she wasn’t obv town though right

[Flavor Leaf]

Not like she wasn’t obv town though right

Sure, but anybody would have wanted to kill her then.

Yeah, i think Kyouko just died because scum were content with gamestate, so they killed a obv townie.

I also think it means scum are for sure off the wagon too.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, I was hard town reading Celeblokiyesterday, but some of the things they’ve been saying today just ping me.

And i don’t remember ever being pinged when they are actually scum, even when i would go over the possibility of them being scum.

I only have one game where i had to read them, though, the other i was scum and they were town.

Their reads list looks political too

[Flavor Leaf]

I just don’t really buy Hu Tao as a top town read here.

Even by Hu Tao’s own statement, they haven’t really done much.

And while I scum read Hu Tao, it doesn’t mean I think they’re always scum here, and I might think that I lean town Hu Tao because I’m scum reading them, if that makes sense.

But the very top? Hu Tao? Someone who actively gets town read as scum?

Yeah, I don’t buy that.

The post they made before Thomith voted also pinged me a little, the “I’m back” kinda post.

I didn’t want to go off of just that, but with the political reads list, Celebloki dropped a bunch for me.

I feel it’s possible Celeb/Dunn?

But Cakez is right, we definitely should take some time for today.

[Flavor Leaf]

The reason it doesn’t ping me as much when Thomith puts Hu Tao to the top is because if Hu Tao is in fact scum, even if they aren’t at this point, then Hu Tao setup that pocket on Thomith early.

And even if Hu Tao town, I can still see a world where the 2 of them specifically just found each other as town.

That’s the difference between Thomith putting Hu Tao at the top and Celeb here.

[Flavor Leaf]

There’s also no explanation on Celeb’s read for Hu Tao, unless I’m missing it somewhere.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am in this spot where I understand that I could be wrong about Roden. That being said, I genuinely do feel like they are town, and if they are scum, then yeah, that's a testament to the RodenScum play to pocket me this game. I see a small case where that is true, but for the most part, I'd have to have hopped into the pocket, and they just allowed it.

I like to be convinced by players otherwise to have my reads moved, and I'm okay with town reading scum and vice versa, especially in the early day phases.

So @Bingle - if you are town, and see that I'm town, and truly think RodenScum, it's gonna take a bit more to get me out of that pocket. I'm open to the idea. By defending Roden going forward, I should start to see where I'm wrong, if I'm wrong.

I'm not invested in a Wiz/Dunnstral TvS narrative, and think that's lightweight being forced.

[Flavor Leaf]

at least for D2 am going to blindly TR her.

this doesn't line up with how I've seen your town play before. This is why I'm being thrown off a bit.

Hu Tao also specifically stated they're playing this way on purpose, meaning they are exactly aware of it as well.

Same with the sheeping reads of Thomith and Wiz. I think there are plenty of better reasons to town read both of them, and Kyouko was actively pushing Wiz pretty hard at one point yesterday too. Hu Tao also ended the day on Wiz. So while what you're saying checks out to an extent, it doesn't really match up.

It's pinging me because I'm generally able to see your posts and go, dang, that's some under the radar good analysis, even when they aren't necessarily correct.

And a big reason I can see for this is CelebScum trying to be genuine, but they cant truly replicate it because they aren't coming from a town POV.

Why's your read on Roden so low?

[Flavor Leaf]

@Dunnstral - say you somehow found out that Wiz and I were both conf town, who's scum for you?

[Flavor Leaf]

I have someone else I want to put some pressure on, but I think I want to wait a bit for people to come in and react to the current things before I move on.

I’m open to a Dunn/Wiz town/town world.

[Flavor Leaf]

i was lean towning Gob by the end of it, and thought their death was best for the game to an eventual solve.

I still stand by that.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'll go over my hammer again... I didn't believe the doctor claim. Leaving gob alive gives other players a chance to unvote gob, which reveals them as not doctor to mafia. Hammering gob also makes mafia think I could be a pr like doctor due to my hammer.

solid rehearsed reasoning.

UNVOTE: Dunnstral

either way, im okay with going over other options for sure.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: naerys I think this is a good suspect

Okay I'm done traveling home on break etc etc can we not hammer yet cuz I actually want to play today

I want to see the follow up to this. I don't think Cakez and Naerys are paired, but their reads on each other don't feel TvT either.

why cant they be TvT

[Flavor Leaf]

I have someone else I want to put some pressure on, but I think I want to wait a bit for people to come in and react to the current things before I move on.

I’m open to a Dunn/Wiz town/town world.

Is it thomith? I bet it’s thomith. Hey everybody, if you vote thomith now you can accuse FL of sheeping you in the post game.

Nah, it's RCE. I might throw down a case. I can see them being either alignment, but I think regardless they need some pressure.

[Flavor Leaf]

Interesting. I thought you had a pretty solid townread on RCE and was mostly sheeping that because iirc he was one of your boonbabies or whatever you called them.

the boon babes. brings me back.

i feel it's possible that RCE played the way they did so I specifically would town read them.

My thought process was that you and RCE are 2 players who specifically, as we say, Slingshot me, and see the benefits of doing that towards me as either my alignment. Difference is, you have been giving me your blessings, and stating when you think my reads are off, while RCE sits back and lets it fall where it may, only joining in at end of the day Gob.

RCE did a similar play last time, and the difference was, they nonstop scum read me. So this was a choice to do the exact opposite towards me by RCE.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just don’t really buy Hu Tao as a top town read here.

Even by Hu Tao’s own statement, they haven’t really done much.

And while I scum read Hu Tao, it doesn’t mean I think they’re always scum here, and I might think that I lean town Hu Tao because I’m scum reading them, if that makes sense.

But the very top? Hu Tao? Someone who actively gets town read as scum?

Yeah, I don’t buy that.

The post they made before Thomith voted also pinged me a little, the “I’m back” kinda post.

I didn’t want to go off of just that, but with the political reads list, Celebloki dropped a bunch for me.

I feel it’s possible Celeb/Dunn?

But Cakez is right, we definitely should take some time for today.

Well that's 3 people that seem to have me as their top town read?

which one of em is scum?

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, there’s scum in it 100% of the time. 1 probs exactly

[Flavor Leaf]

Maybe, but as of right now, I don't want any of them.

i mean, that would make sense since they're town reading you, and supporting.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Celebloki

[Flavor Leaf]

Why are you so against Dunn or wiz today?

i town read Wiz, and im not feeling DunnScum anymore, Bingle convinced me.

I'm usually pretty good at reading Dunn too.

[Flavor Leaf]

RCE/Celebloki/Hu Tao. trying this out for size.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t feel like this game is stalled?

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t remember ever thinking Celebloki was fluffy before.

Also really don’t like the idea of Hu Tao town thinking all 3 hard town reading her are town

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t remember ever thinking Celebloki was fluffy before.

Also really don’t like the idea of Hu Tao town thinking all 3 hard town reading her are town

Cele could be scum sure, but I would prefer Dunn right now.

I’m sure ya do

[Flavor Leaf]

the fact that the Celebloki is Thomith, FL, Naerys, and Dunnstral wagon starts to pick up steam again is a really good sign of CeleblokiScum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Celebloki is being weird and decided trying to get themselves eliminated is a good play. I think It is a better idea to go for someone playing in the background this day phase.

You were still the main wagon, but if scum were already on you, they don’t have that much leverage to push you further so i feel like this is Celeb bluffing bravado. I’ve never seen Celebloki play like this, so it does feel scummy.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also specifically know Naerys as a thorny player, and Celebloki was in the 2 games I saw this in, so idk why that stands out for Naerys here.

I’m picking up big frantic vibes that I have never felt from Celeb before.

[Flavor Leaf]

Roden’s Wiz vote is potentially momentum shifting, and could be a Celeb partner.

[Flavor Leaf]

I can only think of a few reasons scum!Celeb would ask to be voted out unprompted:

-He's trying to save scum!Dunn. Really only makes sense if Celeb is a goon/negative utility PR and Dunn is a high priority PR.

-Celeb is a negative utility PR and that alone is enough to scare the shit out of the scum team.

-Celeb planned the least efficient bus attempt ever in the scum chat and his buddies forgot they were supposed to make it look convincing.

It could also be a combination of the above. I...don't think any of that is likely or good scum play though. If there's another reason for why he could be doing this, I'm down to hear people out.

It’s AtE, and it feels like false bravado, which i guess you’re weak to based on what you said about Kitty last game.

I don’t feel this is the same as Kitty there, though.

I’ve never seen Celebloki use AtE.

[Flavor Leaf]

I disagree with the saving thing.

I also don’t think they’re in as much danger as people are thinking? They never were main wagon, why would they need ‘saving’?

I don’t believe buddies are trying to have celeb faded, so why would they go for town cred to vote?

[Flavor Leaf]

There was also only 1 scum on Yessiree, and it was Elements sitting on them in that first spot.

So it’s possible Thomith, if scum, is a Celeb partner sitting on the partner slot not expecting it to catch on, and now can’t really move without drawing attention.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, claim time

[Flavor Leaf]

If you’re town, Celeb, you’re wrong on a chunk of your town reads.

Your energy is just different this game, and I’ve never had to wonder about your reads before, so that’s why I feel you are scum here.

Even when I was scum against you, I felt everything you were saying made sense, and that you had reasons for everyone.

I’ve never seen you go ‘I’m trusting my read on Kyouko so I’m trusting their reads’

Seems super lazy, and i don’t see you as a lazy player. That being said, i also don’t get why you wouldn’t try to expand more as scum, so when I think deeper into that, it looks like you’re avoiding saying certain things about players to not draw more associatives.

I’m very willing to change wagons and my view on a gamestate on a whim.

But you are trusting blindly in Hu Tao, Wiz, and Thomith, and trusting Kyouko who was already shown to have incorrect reads this game with their Gob push.

I get NKA, and I’ve been looking into that too, but Kyouku was just obv town for that push on Gob, the how they did it.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s claim time.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why wouldn't you check Leaf?

Cuz they’re lying scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why wouldn't you check Leaf?

Cuz they’re lying scum.

Scratch that, they’re probs a Scum Neap here lying about their target

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m down to move to Hu Tao, though, if we wanna let Celeb go further.

I think they’re blatantly scum claiming Neap here, but Hu Tao is also scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why wouldn't you check Leaf?

Cuz they’re lying scum.

Why do you think they're lying?
I feel like the explanations post claim do kinda make sense?

Why wouldn’t they?

They took time to think about it without claiming it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why wouldn't you check Leaf?

Cuz they’re lying scum.

Scratch that, they’re probs a Scum Neap here lying about their target

I guess that technically could be possible too.

Why would scum soft?

I only soft as scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Not true, i soft as town.

But they also claimed that they were town reading Kyouko.

It also doesn’t line up they wanted ‘lower profile’ slots.

Kyouko was one of the leads in pushing Gob and was the only obv town.

This is a scum claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

Kyouko is just such a weird target when we had an actual VT claim that no one really disputed should be investigated

Yeah, the inconsistencies are there in celeb. They stalled for the claim, but couldn’t much longer.

They also had to be a N1 Roleblock target on top of it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why would I say I got a No Result on kyouko if I was lying about my claim though. I could just as easily say I got VT on her. I honestly didn't feel like my crumb was very well hidden and I regretted crumbing it. My best guess is scum have a roleblocker and saw my crumb and used it on me. Might as well flip me, they'll just keep role blocking me so I get no information.

I'm not too sure it makes sense to flip you just because of setup spec of Mafia potentially hand a role blocker that saw your soft, because I dont actually think it was that obvious personally. It's a potential, but there are other things that could explain it instead.

I'd rather keep celeb around for now I think, to see what happens in future nights?

Nah, this is they claimed. Im recently over the ‘Wait and see’ mentality too because scum in a pickle are mostly always gonna claim PR for that exact reason.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s Celeb or Hu Tao for me today. Hu Tao’s either TMI’ing Celeb town or is scum. Or they’re both scum. This isn’t town Tao.

[Flavor Leaf]

Kyouko is just such a weird target when we had an actual VT claim that no one really disputed should be investigated

Yeah, the inconsistencies are there in celeb. They stalled for the claim, but couldn’t much longer.

They also had to be a N1 Roleblock target on top of it.

The roleblock feels like a weird thing to fake though, when it would just make the claim less believable?

It’s a stronger claim with it. Why would Celebloki of all players here be roleblocked N1 and then just happen to get pushed here today?

Why did it take that long to get to the claim?

They spent the time with a scum partner crafting the claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s Celeb or Hu Tao for me today. Hu Tao’s either TMI’ing Celeb town or is scum. Or they’re both scum. This isn’t town Tao.

This is you just setting up for when Cele flips town

I specifically make it a point to not setup like that.

And I’ve been pushing you as scum the majority of the day phase.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s Celeb or Hu Tao for me today. Hu Tao’s either TMI’ing Celeb town or is scum. Or they’re both scum. This isn’t town Tao.

This is you just setting up for when Cele flips town

I specifically make it a point to not setup like that.

And I’ve been pushing you as scum the majority of the day phase.

Okay. Tell me why this is my scum game.

You keep acting like I haven’t cased you when I gave a giant wall post on you last day phase

[Flavor Leaf]

Kyouko is just such a weird target when we had an actual VT claim that no one really disputed should be investigated

Yeah, the inconsistencies are there in celeb. They stalled for the claim, but couldn’t much longer.

They also had to be a N1 Roleblock target on top of it.

The roleblock feels like a weird thing to fake though, when it would just make the claim less believable?

It’s a stronger claim with it. Why would Celebloki of all players here be roleblocked N1 and then just happen to get pushed here today?

Why did it take that long to get to the claim?

They spent the time with a scum partner crafting the claim.

I believe him when he says he got no result.

I believe that you believe that.

[Flavor Leaf]

UNVOTE: Gob

Day got juicier.

Hu Tao TMI’ing Gob possibility tips the scale to where I think Gob is more likely to flip town than scum, whereas before the chance was more likely scum than town, which is always a good roll on Day 1.

Gob got White Knighted.

Fun thing about this is both Gob and Wiz were my candidates. It’s possible they are both town.

I don’t think I was hiding it very well, but I think Hu Tao is pretty obv scum here.

Not necessarily caring about their fade today because I think it’s just infinitely hard to fade someone like Hu Tao Scum on a Day 1, also in ways it’s not worth it sometimes.

But by their own admission, they were trying to ‘do nothing’ to get town read. This means they are actively trying to position themselves in a specific way in the game.

On top of this, when I stated they had done things already, they were salty because they thought they had ‘literally done nothing’. That reeks of scum being upset they got caught for wrong reasons.

Now the advocate for Vig on FL after I advocated for Cop on Hu Tao.

I would say bar a couple players, I am generally a solid town read player for most players. The difference is, I’m wanting Hu Tao checked, which if they are town, is very beneficial in the long run, especially towards someone who has been actively trying to become town read.

By their own admission, they’ve been ‘doing nothing’ on purpose to get town read, and that’s like the perfect investigative action onto a slot that’s in the background like that, and especially on a sneaky scum like her.

She advocates for a Vig on me, taking me out of the game.

That is a direct Threat Challenging of me. I want to town read Hu Tao if she’s town.

She wants me to die.

She doesn’t have to worry about reading me here.

It also helps guide a Vig off of scum team and onto a claimed Vanilla Townie.

If I am the only death, and ANYONE claims Vig, Hu Tao is scum here.

None of that maybe Vig targeted same player, maybe someone protected.

I have coasted so many games from a Vig claim, partner Vig claim, that I know how to set things up like that.

That is a potential crumb setup by Hu Tao in case they get Gunsmith guiltied they have that to fall back on.

Posted this yesterday

[Flavor Leaf]

Hu Tao’s also trying to get me to convince

her

that she is scum, whereas if she were town, why would I ever need to do that?

On top of that, it benefits Hu Tao as scum here to defend a town Celeb because Celeb was one of the people here who put Hu Tao at the top.

Hu Tao even said they didn’t think any of the people who put them at the top of their town reads was scummy, or didn’t concern her at all, when the day prior, end of day, by her own admission she was ‘literally doing nothing’ deliberately, and yet she thinks she warrants that strong of town reads and by

only

town?

Then Celeb started getting more heat, and they began to say they could see it, and then the claim stuff happened and Hu Tao flips the other way.

On top of this, was also shouting yesterday for INVESTIGATIVE TO BE ON HU TAO.

Hu Tao’s standing in the game is in a good spot because she had townies defending and pocketing.

And she’s targeting players that disrupt that.


In addition, if I were ever scum here, I have no reason to not play along and then just start killing off the support system, so Hu Tao voting me here is also completely opportunistic of the new energy.

She doesn’t scum read me, she’s trying to prevent the threat to her support system and use the hectic energy to aid the momentum

[Flavor Leaf]

Leaf I think this is just another Yessiree situation where a scum PR claimed No Result on a bad target when they shouldn't have, and Hu Tao is just in my position from that game

Nah, it goes a lot deeper than that. Hu Tao is protecting themselves more than protecting Celebloki here.

Hu Tao has also been threat preventing me without trying to engage all game and dumb playing when I’ve put large posts and cases together on why Hu Tao is scum.

Like I’m actually more positive on Hu Tao scum here than Celebloki, but i don’t think it’s impossible they’re both scum here.

[Flavor Leaf]

It feels like such a weird thing to lie about though?

It is, but I've seen scum do this before. I think it's just a botched claim.

I believe the no result claim. He could be scum neap, which isn't something I considered until FL pointed it out, but yeah.

Then town blocked them and would be able to confirm that, but i don’t think anyone else should claim this day phase.

It’s the target that is poor more than the No Result for me.

They can’t fake a result on anyone else other than me with the Neap claim, and if they claimed to investigate me, they’d have confirmed me as town.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also was one of the biggest pushers of Gob yesterday, Celeb thinking I’d be nightkilled is kinda wack too.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you wanted a cop to investigate me, and no one has claimed a guilty on me. Why are you trying to push me today?

If I had tried to push you today, this day would have been a lot louder.

But i like how you focus on one small thing in all of it on an action directing statement too

____

Celebloki stated they wanted someone low profile, and they chose Kyouko, a louder presence of Day 1 who was basically obv towned up, instead of Hu Tao who was by their own statements, deliberately ‘literally doing nothing’.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why would I say I got a No Result on kyouko if I was lying about my claim though. I could just as easily say I got VT on her. I honestly didn't feel like my crumb was very well hidden and I regretted crumbing it. My best guess is scum have a roleblocker and saw my crumb and used it on me. Might as well flip me, they'll just keep role blocking me so I get no information.

I'm not too sure it makes sense to flip you just because of setup spec of Mafia potentially hand a role blocker that saw your soft, because I dont actually think it was that obvious personally. It's a potential, but there are other things that could explain it instead.

I'd rather keep celeb around for now I think, to see what happens in future nights?

This is a Simple set up, so only Roleblocker and Jailkeeper could have messed with his action. The results he claimed don't match up with the wiki though because he should've been blatantly told that his action failed.

What is wrong with the claim of no result? Is that not when you get when you are blocked?

I think Roden is arguing a semantics thing, which is something they do.

And i don’t agree with that necessarily, but Roden could be right, it’s really the stalled claim + way different vibes of Celebloki + the inconsistency with their reasoning for target + the only target they could state without having to guess/confirm a townie.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why would I say I got a No Result on kyouko if I was lying about my claim though. I could just as easily say I got VT on her. I honestly didn't feel like my crumb was very well hidden and I regretted crumbing it. My best guess is scum have a roleblocker and saw my crumb and used it on me. Might as well flip me, they'll just keep role blocking me so I get no information.

I'm not too sure it makes sense to flip you just because of setup spec of Mafia potentially hand a role blocker that saw your soft, because I dont actually think it was that obvious personally. It's a potential, but there are other things that could explain it instead.

I'd rather keep celeb around for now I think, to see what happens in future nights?

This is a Simple set up, so only Roleblocker and Jailkeeper could have messed with his action. The results he claimed don't match up with the wiki though because he should've been blatantly told that his action failed.

What is wrong with the claim of no result? Is that not when you get when you are blocked?

I always tell myself when I roll PRs, I'm gonna refuse to claim them but I never do. I'm just gonna full claim it and my target.

I'm a Town Neapolitan. My N1 was a waste because I targeted Kyouko. Interestingly I got a 'No Result' response. I assume because she died.

A Vanilla Townie will return a result of "target is a Vanilla Townie"; other players will give a result of "target is not a Vanilla Townie". If the action fails (e.g. due to a roleblocker), the result will be "Your action failed, and you did not receive a result".

Yeah, this might actually be a technical scum slip by Celebloki too.


So I should know this, but it’s still new with these tags, Simple labeled games DO NOT give No Result to a roleblocked.

This is specifically different in Simple games is what’s being said?

Every other queue it would have been ‘No Result’

[Flavor Leaf]

If Celebloki flips scum, I am also confirmed town as Vanilla town, which means scum have to kill me as Vanilla lol.

[Flavor Leaf]

It feels like such a weird thing to lie about though?

It is, but I've seen scum do this before. I think it's just a botched claim.

I believe the no result claim. He could be scum neap, which isn't something I considered until FL pointed it out, but yeah.

Then town blocked them and would be able to confirm that, but i don’t think anyone else should claim this day phase.

It’s the target that is poor more than the No Result for me.

They can’t fake a result on anyone else other than me with the Neap claim, and if they claimed to investigate me, they’d have confirmed me as town.

True.

I do agree that the target of Kyouko was a little weird, but celeb saying he was trying to find a town core may kind of make this make sense?

Why would they say things that don’t make sense as scum?

I don’t think that lines up, though.

They already town read Kyouko, and everybody was talking about Kyouko being obv town.

If they wanted to build a town core, they would have gone elsewhere.

They could have confirmed me.

Never trust a PR action claim from someone going down on the Night Killed player.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why would I say I got a No Result on kyouko if I was lying about my claim though. I could just as easily say I got VT on her. I honestly didn't feel like my crumb was very well hidden and I regretted crumbing it. My best guess is scum have a roleblocker and saw my crumb and used it on me. Might as well flip me, they'll just keep role blocking me so I get no information.

I'm not too sure it makes sense to flip you just because of setup spec of Mafia potentially hand a role blocker that saw your soft, because I dont actually think it was that obvious personally. It's a potential, but there are other things that could explain it instead.

I'd rather keep celeb around for now I think, to see what happens in future nights?

This is a Simple set up, so only Roleblocker and Jailkeeper could have messed with his action. The results he claimed don't match up with the wiki though because he should've been blatantly told that his action failed.

What is wrong with the claim of no result? Is that not when you get when you are blocked?

I always tell myself when I roll PRs, I'm gonna refuse to claim them but I never do. I'm just gonna full claim it and my target.

I'm a Town Neapolitan. My N1 was a waste because I targeted Kyouko. Interestingly I got a 'No Result' response. I assume because she died.

A Vanilla Townie will return a result of "target is a Vanilla Townie"; other players will give a result of "target is not a Vanilla Townie". If the action fails (e.g. due to a roleblocker), the result will be "Your action failed, and you did not receive a result".

Yeah, this might actually be a technical scum slip by Celebloki too.


So I should know this, but it’s still new with these tags, Simple labeled games DO NOT give No Result to a roleblocked.

This is specifically different in Simple games is what’s being said?

Every other queue it would have been ‘No Result’

Where does it say that Simple Games have to clarify that an action failed?

I was trying to get it clarified myself.

The quote that was given by Roden does seem to imply it that way.

[Flavor Leaf]

Thomith, you are in a Hu Tao pocket.

Look at how you react to this situation compared to how Hu Tao is.

You are questioning everything.

Hu Tao is not, even though pages before they were talking about them being able to see it as scum.

I believe Celebloki is getting advice from Hu Tao in the scum PT.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hu Tao also would still get the defense of “why would I defend my own partner that way? I just thought they were town”

Which is going to convince multiple players.

[Flavor Leaf]

Celebloki/Hu Tao team, Celeb flips, scum can’t get rid of me anymore without killing me, a claimed Vanilla, which is a terrible spot for them to be.

[Flavor Leaf]

Regardless, if we are all 3 town, Celebloki is scum

[Flavor Leaf]

Good post. I might be alright going Hu Tao

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m of the mentality that Dunnstral’s defense is solid enough for me to not use that reasoning.

However,

i do think that take the out, and all the other reasons that I’ve been stating look strong.

In addition to that, the fact that this push got minimized to being about that front and center, one that has a damn good reason to stand as a good defense, it makes it feel like there’s a solid defense for Celebloki, and that seems like it was put on the stage, when I even thought the other reasons were better to begin with.

Celebloki felt solid in that post. But when I take out tone reading as well, it leans back to them being scum, which is generally a good sign.

@Roden - the similarities to the Yessiree wagon, down to it being on Day 2 both times, are too similar for me to ignore here.

I also hate the defense of “let the night resolve itself” because i know how much i love hearing that when im scum in danger. A clever scum can work around that and craft a mech puzzle narrative that works in their favor.

And in the scenario I am correct about Hu Tao/Celebloki, I am always fake guiltied tomorrow, at the cost of Celebloki, in a situation where they wiggled out a Flavor take down, not the other way around, and Hu Tao gets to brush it off.

It’s just too similar to Yessiree.

In ADDITION, Dunnstral was the other wagon, and I think Dunnstral was town being wagoned.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can we do Hu Tao or RCE instead?

The thing with Hu Tao is you have to cut off the limbs before you get the hydra.

I agree with you, Hu Tao is scum, I’ve given a multitude of reasons that nobody has tried to dispute, because frankly, it’s a damn good case. Even if ends up being wrong, a good case.

I really don’t think we are, but Celeb is a Hu Tao partner.

[Flavor Leaf]

That's enough effort for me not to want to vote you today Dunn.

How would everyone feel about a Naerys vote?

This is also absolutely so political.

Dunnstral defends Celebloki and they conditionally responsed by Hu Tao. Dunn is getting rewarded to help empower Dunn’s spot and reads in the game because it protects Celebloki.

And then they find a compromise wagon in Naerys where did Naerys flips town, it can be brushed off as an “oh well, now we know”, but it TAKES pressure off of Celebloki.

Naerys was poking at Celebloki earlier.


Hu Tao is playing a super heavy political game.

[Flavor Leaf]

did i ruin your planned gambit

And I’m pretty sure i have said that exact thing to you as town before

And you actively do fake guilties as scum

[Flavor Leaf]

If there are the people for it, I will happily fade Hu Tao, Cakez.

And do you also notice how there were players who scum read me, like Sir Cakez and Dunn, who have moved away from that, while Hu Tao tries to do everything to try and flip their read?

But Hu Tao isn’t actively giving reasons for anything. They just state and conditionally response.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you can find it, then I'll restore your probably town status. But I only remember you saying it as scum.

And the only time I faked a guilty as scum was when I knew cop had a guilty on me. Why would I do so on a claimed VT?

You* wouldn’t. But Celebloki lasting another day gives you plenty of time to setup with 2 extra night kills to trim the bonsai the way you want

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m not gonna look for it, I’m mobile for the time being, but anything i say as scum is because i probably said it as town somewhere.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’ve read up, but I’m working from 7 AM til midnight tomorrow and I don’t particularly want to effort atm, so you get to wait until the weekend.

Unironically, FL, we let the night phase sort Celebloki.

VOTE: Hu Tao

I’ll sheep you here though.

Im in the same boat tbh.

VOTE: Hu Tao

it's gotta be one of them today, though.

Celebloki should be leashed too, Naerys seems like a good slot.

[Flavor Leaf]

Eh Scum Vanilla Cop claiming Neap is a valid strategy there if that's the case.

[Flavor Leaf]

fade Hu Tao, if town, Celeb should target me. If scum, which is more likely, target literally anyone else probably.

[Flavor Leaf]

gob (4): SirCakez, Bingle, Roden, Flavor Leaf

How Day 1 went, this is looking like occam's razor imo.

Also, considering I was starting to lean town on Gob end of the day, Bingle and Cakez had moved, it means that the majority of the wagon were people who werent willing to join at this time, and thus I believe scum ended up joining somewhere outside of this. Kyouko death also makes me believe 2 scum were off


final

gob (7): Roden, ssbm_kyouko, AnimatedWiz, Naerys, Flavor Leaf, RCEnigma, Dunnstral
SirCakez (2): Thomith, Hu Tao
RCEnigma (1): SirCakez
ssbm_kyouko (1): Celebloki
Flavor Leaf (1): gob
Roden (1): Bingle

Not voting (0):

Look at the final wagon here. Only two of us are the same from early on. One got killed and is town. This leaves AnimatedWiz, Naerys, RCE, and Dunnstral. I think there are 1 or 2 scum on that.

Let's look outside of the wagon.

Thomith, Hu Tao, SirCakez, Celebloki, Bingle are left. 1 or 2 scum here.

I do not believe Gob wagon warranted having 3 scum on them ever.

If we are in a ZERO scum on the Gob wagon, the team is EXACTLY SirCakez, Celebloki, and Bingle. This is tinfoil, but something that lines up with current play.

That being said, I don't necessarily think Cakez and Bingle both join on Gob early. Bingle also has also defended Dunnstral multiple times, and I think is a big reason Dunnstral didn't die.

I have also started to lean Dunnstral town, and apparently, Hu Tao has too. I don't actually even know Hu Tao's reads besides that they town read the people town reading them hard, and they want Naerys now.

[Flavor Leaf]

SirCakez (2): Thomith, Hu Tao

there is scum on this spot specifically somewhere. Occam's Razor, Hu Tao.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh, it's Wiz, Hu Tao, and RCEnigma.

[Flavor Leaf]

i wanna check out kyouko and wiz stuff again. I think i liked the way she was talking about Wiz. Also, Celebloki being on her at the end of the day and deciding to target her does actually line up decently well. i definitely am coming around Celebloki not being scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

also, if you are actually town, Hu Tao, I am in either a Roden or a Bingle pocket, and would need your help in reading them, so what are your reads on the two of them?

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, not enough play by RCE for me to care fading there yet. But pretty soon if they don’t in the next few day phases. I am starting to lean there.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Naerys Bingle has felt town to me this game, FL I suspected day one but his play today looks like legit scumhunting and not like the weird scum mastermind tone he had when we limmed him as scum kinda recently. Roden I don't have a take on rn, he's honestly been totally off my radar

To be fair, the plan was to give myself up as scum in that game.

Plan A was shooting for that perfect scum game, and we played it to perfection, but you happened to be Bulletproof, so good on you for holding it.

But to win after that, Plan B was for me to die and flip so Not Mafia would eventually be flipped as an associative to me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Roden makes great points.

[Flavor Leaf]

Based on Naerys wagon being Celeb and Hu Tao, probs never do Naerys today.

I think Dunn vs Wiz is a feud for later in the game.

So Celeb vs Hu Tao.

I’m game for either

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh, it's Wiz, Hu Tao, and RCEnigma.

Why do you think this specifically is the solve?

I think RCE is in their scum meta based on their choice of choosing how to interact with my slot, I made a case a little while back, and this is a solve if Celeb is town specifically.

If Hu Tao town/Celeb scum, then there’s probably scum in Bingle or Cakez, but idk if i think this is the case necessarily. It’s possible we’re right on the money with Celeb/Hu Tao.

[Flavor Leaf]

Based on Naerys wagon being Celeb and Hu Tao, probs never do Naerys today.

I think Dunn vs Wiz is a feud for later in the game.

So Celeb vs Hu Tao.

I’m game for either

I'm a no for both me and cele

You’re a no for all the viable wagons today, though, the 3rd being RCE, so you gotta start giving reasons and explanations if you want people to follow

[Flavor Leaf]

Why do people think Celeb will be able to prove his role tonight? He already claimed that he was blocked last night.

I don’t expect he’ll be able to prove his role, I expect, if town, that he’ll be a roleblock that doesn’t get used on our other power roles. Also, even a “I was roleblocked but targeted X” is a thing that potentially gets us information after he flips.

I can see both sides of it.

I think Roden’s reasoning of why would a PR willingly give self up like that is actually pretty strong here.

It goes well with the fact they stalled the last game, and gives me scumMarcistar and scumYessiree vibes from 2 different games I’ve been in recently, also on Day 2 after a Vanilla Townie fade.


VOTE: Celebloki

[Flavor Leaf]

A strong town PR shouldn't be intentionally trying to get themself voted out and then inform the scum team that they were correct in blocking them...

[Flavor Leaf]

AtE.

Thats a very common scum tactic

[Flavor Leaf]

Hu Tao feels soooo much like scum, theyre doing a good job, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Idk. I’m ready to move to next day phase. I went over a lot of things this phase, I’m burnt, and have gone in a deep circular pit where i need a flip to progress.

[Flavor Leaf]

actually, im getting possible vibes of the defense of celebloki being scum defense somewhere in there. i town read em all doing it, but i just wholeheartedly disagree with the philosophy of 'letting it resolve itself' lately.

I also think people overvalue the mech side of it.

[Flavor Leaf]

If they're scummy, fade them.

It was the 'it's pretty clear eliminating Celebloki is the wrong play' line that did it for me.

No, it really isn't. It's not a 'wrong play'. it's a fade on a slot a lot of people scum read. day play over mech.

[Flavor Leaf]

id be down with fading Wiz with the caveat that if they're town, Hu Tao goes tomorrow.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, i don’t like the speed of Wiz wagon either

[Flavor Leaf]

Hm, I appreciate you explaining how he would be solved before LimLo, because that was a question I forgot to ask earlier—didn’t understand that you meant a Roleblocker flipping would help confirm him.

I… am loathe to wait on a possible flip though, because what if we never get that? What if the Roleblocker survives to LimLo, or we just don’t have one at all? Do we assume he’s lying, or do we give him the benefit of the doubt? I would rather just eliminate him now instead of possibly miselimming someone else instead.

I mean... if the slot isn't resolved by massclaim day (traditionally limlo-1) it should resolve itself based on balance and if it doesn't we have the opportunity to solve it there.

If nothing else also needs that.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m also just not a fan of compromise wagons, and this feels like a big ol one

[Flavor Leaf]

And best case scenario, Wiz is faded, is scum, and VCA clears me here anyways. So win win.

[Flavor Leaf]

Dunn been obv town

[Flavor Leaf]

We have 4 days, so we have time to think this over

UNVOTE:

Keep in mind, the next 2 or 3 days are going to be extreme limited access for people, but frozen deadline helped

[Flavor Leaf]

Celeb is not Scum Neap if scum. They’re probs a Complex/Simple role or a Vanilla Cop

[Flavor Leaf]

Possibly Role Cop

[Flavor Leaf]

@Hu Tao - say you and I were Masons, Naerys got cop inno’d, and Wiz was faded and flipped town

Who’s scum?

[Flavor Leaf]

@Hu Tao - say you and I were Masons, Naerys got cop inno’d, and Wiz was faded and flipped town

Who’s scum?

Bingle for sure

Same boat.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s also very weird that Bingle is angling for Hu Tao while defending Celebloki imo.

[Flavor Leaf]

Same with Cakez. They’re both doing it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I didn’t see Role Cop claim.

That is a decent counter setup wise. Not impossible, but in addition to everything that was setup + the attitude towards Celeb, I think it’s indicative of Celeb/Bingle/Cakez pairing somewhere.

[Flavor Leaf]

Sounds good to me.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Cakez

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, I’m lean towning Hu Tao.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, I’m lean towning Hu Tao.

What changed?

Gotta keep Hu Tao on their Hu Toes.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just see a couple different possibilities, and there’s multiple worlds, and I’m okay testing different sides of the worlds.

Tone wise, I’m feeling Tao town.

But Hu Tao needs pressure to elicit their reasonings for things, otherwise it’s just blindly announcing

[Flavor Leaf]

My worry with Cakez is that they’re genuine with how they felt, and Bingle took advantage.

Cuz i see that as a possibility as well.

[Flavor Leaf]

And if this game ends up being Bingle/RCE, and they both pushed me as town, that makes a lot of sense for the gamestate, and why I’m struggling to solidify reads further.

Bingle comes in every time I’m doubting.

And they were going after Roden, who is one I was matching up with a lot.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also feel it makes a lot of sense for a ScumBingle to try and work me the way they have been.

[Flavor Leaf]

What about Bingle, Cakez? I think most of this wagon is okay going there too

[Flavor Leaf]

FL your swing onto me is bad and you know it is
I don't know if I even buy you suddenly TRing Hu and trying to lim me or if it's some FL reaction test wizardry shit or if you are just scum

I just voted you. I feel I’ve made it perfectly clear in my posts that I’d prefer Bingle, so this is a bad reaction.

I can see you doing this as either alignment too.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also sheeped one of my strongest town reads in Roden, so again, poor reasoning on the ‘flip’. You also know i specifically flip flop a lot, especially around this time.

[Flavor Leaf]

ok so it's NAI then, same as I think your move here is prolly NAI too
why did you change your mind about Hu Tao?

Idk. I need a flip.

I can still see this as scum Tao.

[Flavor Leaf]

Just cuz i scum read someone doesn’t mean i think they’re scum duh

[Flavor Leaf]

Wiz, role cop Celeb here tonight.

You probs get blocked or killed, though.

Idk.

I think Role Cop is kind of a counterclaim to Neap, and i don’t think they are Neap if Scum. I think it was just a fake claim

[Flavor Leaf]

That’s perfectly fair—I just worry that, if I don’t get my night action off tonight, what happens then?

Basically, should the town trust Celebloki’s results on you if I can’t confirm him?

No.

There’s no good outcome imo.

This is kinda why “let it play out” sucks.

I think we should fade whoever we think is scummiest.

[Flavor Leaf]

Let’s just fade Celeb and go on holiday

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't think the balance works out if Role Cop is our only investigative pwoer, so either Celebloki is that person or there is another town investigative which has not claimed yet

Why do we need multiple investigatives?

[Flavor Leaf]

Really leaning that it’s just Bingle here

[Flavor Leaf]

Does anybody wanna claim vanilla

[Flavor Leaf]

Huh?

….huh?

A double huh.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Flavor Leaf]

Bingle comes in every time I’m doubting.

Bingle comes in every time he's available on site. It's not like it's hard to verify that my surges of activity are sitewide things, I use all of two accounts and they're both public. I'm gonna get really fucking annoyed if this becomes a thing in every game I play.

I was literally just eliminated as town off of a shitpush based on "Well, Bingle is only here sometimes" despite the fact that I was clearly one of the most town players in that game off of the back of this same logic. I have a job that doesn't let me post all day. I travel at least once every two weeks. I woke up at three AM on Friday, worked a full 12 hour shift, and due to flight cancellations (3752 Friday night American Airlines if you want to do the legwork to verify it) shitty travel agencies, and a car rental I didn't get home until 5 AM Saturday, sans bags.

If you're going to paranoia read me, at least call a spade a spade.

It ain’t a spade, i also don’t care about general activity tells like that. Time don’t exist in the arena in that sense

[Flavor Leaf]

Naerys is also obv town

[Flavor Leaf]

1469

Celeb, Wiz, Roden are decently solid for me right now. Yeah, Celeb could be lying, i can live with letting them go another day, parts of me gut read them town right now.

Bingle vs Hu Tao/Thomith didn’t sit well with me, and Bingle just made logical sense with most of what they are saying, and the fact I agreed with them when they weren’t speaking towards me is actually a decent sign.

I was also able to take a few steps back here, and I was able to see my Hu Tao case again, and really do feel like they are probably scum here.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, celeb isn’t confirmed to have been roleblocked by any means until they flip green or a roleblocker flips.

[Flavor Leaf]

Town reading someone isn’t a confirmation of it happening because ya can be wrong

[Flavor Leaf]

Because you could be wrong. Even if you’re like 90% sure they’re 10, there’s still that small percentage you could be wrong.

Bingle is technically correct in their argument, and if they are scum doing it, it gave them an opening to look correct in the back and forth with you

[Flavor Leaf]

yeah, Hu Tao or Bingle, puttem up

[Flavor Leaf]

I still think rce is town from how they acted day 1

What is it that you see about him, that makes you TR him? I really dont understand

I just think the way they opened the game it seemed like a not scummy way

They opened it essentially the same way in Blood Over Utopia and was scum, difference only being instead of scum read pushing me they town read push me.

But it is exactly the same.

[Flavor Leaf]

to be fair, Hu Tao replaced late into that BooneyToonz game and it was a doozy with all the Millers.

And Hu Tao, while known not to explain their reads often, does have solid gut reads.

But they've also been actively playing in a standoffish way the past few months, trying something new with the playstyle.

[Flavor Leaf]

they were town in both, i think.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Cakez

[Flavor Leaf]

You just said you don't think she's good at playing scum

I didn't specify that she's bad at scum. I believe she's too self oriented to be good at the game in general. That has nothing to do with complex strategies, just personality.

This is a fair criticism. I think it started from when I went on vacation and didn't have enough time to play and it carried over to the holidays. I'll try to change this though going forward.

In my traitor game, you had the right read there, but didn't give any reasonings for the read. I do think it would have been hard, but this followed into that game you were Masons, and we were on the verge of victory. You needed my vote to fade Firebringer, and didnt give any reasonings there either, when I was even making some, but I needed to be convinced, that back and forth, otherwise just felt like you were walling. We had Dann too, and really was in a situation where we just needed to get a flip or go further into black hole circular arguments.

I think we are in a similar situation here, where we need a flip to progress, so I'm happy with Cakez.

[Flavor Leaf]

Cakez, Bingle, Flavor

who else pushed you during that time?

[Flavor Leaf]

We hammer even if they claim PR.

[Flavor Leaf]

20 hours until deadline, they claim PR 100% of the time if scum here and we scramble.

[Flavor Leaf]

Damn i wrote that much while being that checked out

I really can just autopilot

[Flavor Leaf]

Leaf, what do you think?

I don’t really like meta reasonings much, and i don’t know why I’m on Cakez other than the possibility i could see them as scum. I need a flip.

[Flavor Leaf]

If Roden and I were scum together, there’d have been a fade already.

[Flavor Leaf]

Wagon starting Roden is generally a town Roden

[Flavor Leaf]

If Roden and I were scum together, there’d have been a fade already.

I mean... I doubt it? I've been the biggest roadblock to your mutual pushes, and I don't suddenly become less so a roadblock if you're scum. Still town FL energy here though.

Frankly, we’d probs have an extra scum member, and either of us could be pushing harder when I’ve basically checked out this day phase

[Flavor Leaf]

Every time Roden is town i hear the same type of arguments.

When Roden is scum, those arguments are not there

[Flavor Leaf]

Compromise on Cakez to help deal with this Bingle/Hu Tao scenario, and move to next day with more info

[Flavor Leaf]

If Roden and I were scum together, there’d have been a fade already.

I mean... I doubt it? I've been the biggest roadblock to your mutual pushes, and I don't suddenly become less so a roadblock if you're scum. Still town FL energy here though.

Also, i feel like we had 1 mutual push in Celebloki, so idk what energy you trying to put out there.

[Flavor Leaf]

When Roden is scum, those arguments are not there

Who, other than me, has even voiced suspicion of Roden?

You’re bringing it up a day before deadline.

You keep presenting this game as “Bingle needs to protect it from Flavor”

But I’m also here protecting the game from a possible ScumBingle here, when there is a much larger scum case to be made on you rather than Roden, imo.

And, if what you say is true, that you’re the only one suspicious of Roden,

Why go for Roden in that sense?

[Flavor Leaf]

Compromise on Cakez to help deal with this Bingle/Hu Tao scenario, and move to next day with more info

How does elimming me help the Bingle/hu situation?

You are a means to an end and a compromise fade, and a repercussion of the unresolved Hu Tao/Bingle, let’s not make it out to be anything more than it is

[Flavor Leaf]

You wanna push a Bingle or Hu Tao, then do it, and stop the woe is me card.

I’ll fade a woe is me as a compromise if they’re an IC to get through the next day.

(Maybe not an IC, but the hyperbole felt valid)

[Flavor Leaf]

I have very few strong town reads this game, so when one of them do get voted at one day til deadline, I’m going to do what i can to stop it from being a rush panic fade, which if Bingle is scum, is exactly what they were hoping to have happen.

[Flavor Leaf]

I ain’t gonna argue the semantics of it all, you pushed for starting a wagon, I responded to my take on it

I’ve forgotten most of the happenings, so I’m taking that at face value and stop gating at the very least what i remember of being one of my top town reads.

Pick a diff wagon

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s 16 hours until deadline, that’s a panic wagon fade possibility, and i see that from a mile away.

[Flavor Leaf]

Sure. Then do it tomorrow, not at 16 hours until deadline.

[Flavor Leaf]

Fatigue + deadline panic = giant opportunity for flash wagon.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have not swung on Roden once this game while considering all options, generally always, so i feel the “wildly swinging back and forth” is overexerted.

My reads have evolved gradually, and my pushes have gotten results, IE Celebloki and Dunnstral both getting more involved in the game and this was able to be town read through my pushes.

[Flavor Leaf]

I pushed through your defenses of it, and was able to help show why they were town rather than just be told so, which is far better in the long run.

The difference is, I already saw the possibilities of town Celeb and Dunn while pushing them, and didn’t hate the reasons.

Roden on the other hand, i don’t even agree with the reasons being presented, and feel they’re far weaker