Mini Normal 2322: Game Over

[Pavowski]

Ha ha ha we're in hell

[Pavowski]

This game is going to last until 2025

[Pavowski]

Ha ha ha we're in hell

Interesting that this is your takeaway after 2 nights of no kills and a scum flip yesterday.

I know you're eager for reasons to scum read me but I spent the last two days thinking "wouldn't it be hilarious if there were no NK again" and it happened, I'm cracking up over here

I lowkey hoped you'd vig me, this game is wearing me out

ok so... in addition to Flavor, Dragon is basically conftown now right?

[Pavowski]

I found it pretty interesting that Purple spent those late-day posts dissembling rather than ... you know, doing other things

[Pavowski]

HPE said they would not be scum with CW. Well, what if they were unhappy scum with a partner in CW? Is this a possibility? I tend to want to believe HPE was genuine, but that one was scum, and it’s a slippery slope taking scum’s word like that. If they were partners, i could imagine them being unhappy.

I think I lean CW town, though.

Purple is probably scum with one of Pav or Gamma.

This has been on my mind as well, the HPE/CW thing

[Pavowski]

Do we think hpe would set that up? Knowing likely it would be voted out before cw

Hard to say, I'm with Flavor though, it did feel genuine

Just taking a peek back I'm really not liking Purple's late posts d2.

If scum!Purple hammered, it kinda feels impossible there's any other scum on that wagon

[Pavowski]

Right now I'm trusting dragon's meta read on purple

If we assume Dragon is safe, that seems cromulent

[Pavowski]

I'll be damned, I just caught a strong town vibe off HT

[Pavowski]

Thr sense of inevitably that some people have about this elimination....makes me not like it.

Like all of Gera's posts yesterday about "I'd do this as scum," "I could have done this" struck me as extremely too-much protesting.

That being said, I could see this coming from town. Specifically, given Gera's posts in this game, this feels way cheekier than I'd expect from scum!Gera

[Pavowski]

If it's 2 do you think Purple is more or less likely scum as the hammer?

I kinda don't think Purple just makes the decision to hammer that on his own, I could imagine HPE in the scum thread saying "just hammer me"

[Pavowski]

What do you think of 2328? I think that's too cute by half for scum!Gera

[Pavowski]

What do you think of 2328? I think that's too cute by half for scum!Gera

Spoiler: Flavor response

His reasonings yesterday I kind of liked, and felt like genuine town Geraint. Like the post he made when i said I’d vig them (i didn’t) and they said “well i don’t want you to”

And Day 2 did happen during holidays, which they seem to had festivities of sorts going, like when they said “11pm on Christmas Eve, you lucky i posted at all”

Was super genuine.

I just don’t think Geraint been pushing an objective this game, and when they started posting more. Idk. I just don’t see HPE and Geraint aligned after both of their play yesterday.

I believe Geraint is the fade that scum wanted after HPE went down, which gives more reason for Hu Tao scum imo

I was asking Hu Tao but I agree with this, I also think Gera steadfastly refusing to join the wagon he claimed to be suspicious of is probably +town if we subscribe to the theory that HPE figured they were going down anyway so scum might as well bus

[Pavowski]

FMPOV then there are 2 scum out of Gamma, CW, Purple, Hu Tao today. That ain't so bad.

Thread needs more CW though.

[Pavowski]

But why are you still alive in that case? Seems like a hell of a gambit, vs killing off a conftown slot

[Pavowski]

and like, scum shooting me over Dragon, if town, means scum are more afraid of me and my vig than DE.

This means Scum would have had to shoot at me two nights in a row.

So I really do think there's a lot of merit in Dragon gambiting here. Something just feels off about their entire play this game.

Scum gambiting here means deliberately eating a no-kill two nights in a row at this point. That's a big, big ask imo. I do see what scum!Dragon gets out of it, but -- and you hit on it -- town!Dragon *has* to be a NK target at some point, assuming they get you tonight (although you're already on your at-least 2nd borrowed day, so who's to say you don't get more)

[Pavowski]

Not saying he's locktown, as I see the ways in which he might not be.

But for now I think I'm operating under the assumption he *is* town

[Pavowski]

scum probably left flavor alive cuz his reads are wrong

As he has said a few times now, Flavor has town-cased and scum-cased every player in the game at this point. If I were scum, I wouldn't put too much stock in what he's saying in the thread as a reason to keep him alive.

[Pavowski]

Might have to look into Dragon and Gamma or Dragon and Geraint team.

I think Hu Tao is probably not aligned with Dragon, but i've been saying one of them are scum. And that's the pickle I'm in here right now.

I think Hu Tao is a better vote than Dragon right now, BUT voting Dragon *could* be a mechanically better play, as you could then shoot Hu Tao tonight if Dragon flips green, and it couldn't be stopped

Not saying I want to do that necessarily, just gaming it out

[Pavowski]

I could be sold on scum!Purple, especially given recent play as I said earlier

I could also be sold on scum!CW, I think there's merit in the HPE/CW beef as s/s

That would leave out Dragon and Hu Tao, though

[Pavowski]

Might have to look into Dragon and Gamma or Dragon and Geraint team.

I think Hu Tao is probably not aligned with Dragon, but i've been saying one of them are scum. And that's the pickle I'm in here right now.

I think Hu Tao is a better vote than Dragon right now, BUT

voting Dragon *could* be a mechanically better play, as you could then shoot Hu Tao tonight if Dragon flips green, and it couldn't be stopped

Not saying I want to do that necessarily, just gaming it out

dragon just gonna jail me again

Not if we yeet him off the building

[Pavowski]

Presumably if we limmed Dragon and you die tonight, we'd be in mountainous from there out right? With hopefully 1 scum left to find out of ... what ... we'd have 5 alive tomorrow?

Shit if Dragon is scum and you shoot true the game could end tonight

[Pavowski]

Presumably if we limmed Dragon and you die tonight, we'd be in mountainous from there out right? With hopefully 1 scum left to find out of ... what ... we'd have 5 alive tomorrow?

Shit if Dragon is scum and you shoot true the game could end tonight

yeah, that's a big reason why I think this is probably the right play.

Tomorrow, worst case scenario, is 3-2, all mountainous (unless DE isn't the scum PR and it was a fake claim, but regardless, it wouldnt matter, i think they are the SCUM PR if scum.)

And I think that's solid.

And then at the very least, you get to play the game without Dragon/FL duo, which will open up gamestate a lot.

If DE's claim is a fake claim at this point my brain is gonna break into itty bitty pieces

[Pavowski]

Presumably if we limmed Dragon and you die tonight, we'd be in mountainous from there out right? With hopefully 1 scum left to find out of ... what ... we'd have 5 alive tomorrow?

Shit if Dragon is scum and you shoot true the game could end tonight

yeah, that's a big reason why I think this is probably the right play.

Tomorrow, worst case scenario, is 3-2, all mountainous (unless DE isn't the scum PR and it was a fake claim, but regardless, it wouldnt matter, i think they are the SCUM PR if scum.)

And I think that's solid.

And then at the very least, you get to play the game without Dragon/FL duo, which will open up gamestate a lot.

If DE's claim is a fake claim at this point my brain is gonna break into itty bitty pieces

[Pavowski]

I still don't get what I'd be scared of as scum? As scum I would just say "cool I can continue sheeping Flavor" and know that you are pocketed

I thought about shooting you

Hmm I'd be down to be shot

I have a self confirming role
VOTE: cw

I also stand by this not being a 'self confirming role', and this was said to help get through this day phase.

Sorry for double post.

Could you clarify "I stand by this not being a 'self confirming role'"? The grammar of it is messing with me.

[Pavowski]

Flavor if you shoot me you should probably announce that so I get conf towned

Like incase you get nightkilled

^

an inconsistency

how would I get killed

Wasn't he still being cheeky about his role at that point? Like he hadn't full-claimed JK? Or is my perception of time off

[Pavowski]

Putting mech issues behind us *does* sound tempting, and we'll have to solve the question of Dragon sooner or later anyway

No need to rush it though.

[Pavowski]

How close is dragon on votes rn?

just me.

CW is likely to join, and Pav I hope would, but cant remember if they said.

I'm willing. Flavor makes a hell of a case but mechanically there are reasons to flip Dragon anyway.

Not voting yet though. The day is barely 24 hours in, we have lots of time.

[Pavowski]

also, another big one, we just gonna sit here and act like all 3 scum claim Vanilla in a low PR game with no scum revealed?

Fucking THIS.

[Pavowski]

Flavor, you do realize that when I flip town you get roleblocked and can't shoot in my scumreads anyway? There's a confirmed roleblocker.

Also

You are just fucking tunneled

Do me a favor, and do the following: take a break from this game for one day. Come back and pretend you have no reads or biases and read the game from the start and tell me what your reads are

If I'm really scum you should be able to find me anyway.

pretty sure thats what already happened, considering you were saying I was town reading you.

I reread the entire game today, and you and HPE are so aligned

What do you mean there's a confirmed roleblocker? When has that ever been shown in this game? You have been the one blocking.

If there was your JK and a scum blocker in this game, they would be blocking me and killing elsewhere IF my reads were poor, which is already shown not to be the case.

Bolding mine. If there are 3 town prs there's got to be something to balance that on the scum team. Why doesn't scum block Flavor and NK Dragon in that case?

Flavor's reads and their goodness or badness aside, why shoot at Flavor two nights in a row when there's a jk out there likely to protect the conftown? Yeah Dragon gambited 2-shot but scum know their roles (yeah town has cop, vig, jk in this scenario so I'm assuming roleS plural), so they can make an educated guess about whether 2-shot is in line. They can also consider it might be a gambit and shoot elsewhere. WIFOM all the way down. It's just crazy to me that scum willingly shoots into protection twice in a row when there's another town PR out there.

Scum JK no-killing, no matter how wild a play, is still more likely than THAT, imo.

Where is the scum power in this setup if Dragon is legit?

And don't forget scum sniffed out the cop crumb d1 when it flew past most of us. They ain't just shooting on first impulse.

And, I say again, now that all of this is out there, we have to address the problem of Dragon sooner or later unless scum kills him for us, which given the past two nights, they seem unlikely to do.

[Pavowski]

If town has 3 PRs scum have to have 2, and they've done apparently fuck-all in this game.

If town has 2, scum only have 1.

Which feels more likely given the game state?

[Pavowski]

I refuse to be limmed today because that means you mislim Hu Tao tomorrow and game over.

If you want to lim me, let's lim Pav and I'll selfvote if he flips town.

You aren't self-voting when I flip town, don't pretend like you are. And your assumption that we then autoflip Hu Tao as town tomorrow is just that, an assumption. If Flavor isn't there to drive it, what makes you think it'll be automatic? And how are you so goddamn sure Hu Tao flips green? At this point I could see a red flip from anybody in the lobby and it would barely surprise me.

"I refuse to be limmed" is so silly. Even if town, you're so frustrated at catching votes it feels like scum fighting for your absolute life.

You get how mechanically we have to flip you eventually, right? Scum never NKs you now. Unless we somehow flip a scum RB today. And guess what? It ain't happening if you flip me. I don't think it ever happens period at this point.

[Pavowski]

I'll grant Dragon sounds towny on this case. Particularly the fact he was gobsmacked Flavor switched to me in the midst of all that. (And he voiced it in the thread.)

I still think scum is way underpowered if Dragon is town, but screw mechanics for now. Who do you want me to vote, Dragon? Who's my partner?

And by the way, if I want to push through an easy mislim on you, why the balls haven't I voted you yet?

[Pavowski]

ngl I’m tired and just want this game to end
Can people post their top 2 preferred votes? Mine are Dragon and Hu Tao

Please explain why because earlier you were scumreading Pav, and both me and HT are town.

Flavor made good points on you, and I dislike Hu Tao’s approach this game day

No, Flavor made tunneled points on me, and Hu Tao is simply not sheeping Flavor.

How about we vote Pav who unlike me has both a huge partner equity with HPE and has been sheeping and pocketing Flavor a lot more than me (albeit in a more subtleway because he didn't want to be found out, unlike me who just did it in a jokey way D1) and then when he flips scum you townclear me and Hu Tao?

Honestly if you flip scum your townlock on Hu Tao makes me never want to vote there.

[Pavowski]

and this has me line up with Gamma and CW too, which shows group thought.

Pav not making the kill shot vote on Dragon feels big, and theyve been willing to back off and wait all game.

Pav's unvote on Kyouko was far better than Hu Tao and Dragon's as well.

I don't think I had the opportunity on Dragon btw. At most he's had 3 today if I'm following correctly. But I don't want any lim yet. Given recent town pings from Dragon I can't shake the paranoia that scum could just be hanging back watching the fireworks here.

I still think mechanics are a problem for Dragon, but there is still 1 more scum to catch even if he's red.

[Pavowski]

Of course my damn reads change, man. People do towny and scummy things in every game, that's what makes the game hard. Shit, even with Flavor being conftown there's moments in this game I've read a post from him and thought it was scummy as hell.

So yeah, I've changed my reads. I notice you *still* won't explain your Hu Tao read. I guess we should just trust you, right?

I don't have a partner because I'm not fkin partnered, you deep-tunneled desperate dink

[Pavowski]

I'm also not trying to convince you that you're scum, I'm just, y'know, TALKING TO YOU because that's, y'know, a thing people do? Haven't we had this exchange already?

Honestly if you're town I'm pissed at the way you're coming at me, here. I guess if you're scum it's whatever.

The thing is, though, I can still see reasons you're town, and I'm trying to figure you out. You are not doing that, you are deep, deep in a tunnel, and it's the wrong tunnel, dude.

[Pavowski]

Pretty Patty-looking post

Help me out, what does this mean?

Condolences for your page top

[Pavowski]

Much apologize, I don't have the juice to comment tonight. Some shitbeak ran off the road and fucked up our mailbox and our yard and drove off and it's just ... stuff on top of stuff. Sorry gang. I'll do my best to get in with some bad takes tomorrow.

[Pavowski]

what if we kill Purple

i think they're scum here.

Dragon can jail me, and then we go tomorrow. If they're scum, cool, we're in a decent spot. If they're town, we got that out of the way, and then only one left. We can go Purple->Geraint if Purple is scum, and then maybe all 4 of you are all town.

cuz like, i get town pings from all of you at times, and maybe we're just arguing about it because scum are inactive.

I have had this thought so many times during this game. I think town does have a tendency to go in circles when scum aren't there pushing and pulling on the game in weird ways. Who's pushing and pulling on the game? If anything it feels like things are getting stagnant, which to me suggests one of two things --
Either scum is happy with where we're headed (and where the fook are we headed right now? How could they be happy? Feels like there are 3 or 4 places we could end the day)
OR
They just don't know what to do here

I think either is compatible with lurkscum.

As annoying and as much of a copout as it feels like, I think it's a possibility worth entertaining.

The question I have, though, is whether a Purple / Gera team gets bodied in the night actions like scum have been. I mean if Dragon is scum, it's all gambitry, and Dragon's flip probably gives us enough of a lead to find the other scum among them.

If Dragon is legit, then aside from the first night the scum team has been getting worked. I think this is possible with a Purple/Gera team. I want to say it's really unlikely with like, scum!Gamma on the team.

But then there's that gd crumb on d1. I guess HPE could've found it? Shit.

[Pavowski]

I specifically would like Purple before Geraint, though.

There's reason behind it?
I already asked you that but i don't think you gave an answer

Make sense
stiil kinda weird fir me to talk here but i guess i'm more active then the last game i was in

For now, i prefer to vote pav or hu tao

Like my hesitation with yeeting Purple is that it feels like he's doing virtually nothing to address or answer any suspicion coming his way. Is new scum that unconcerned? Or is that just frozen scum?

Ugh.

[Pavowski]

viewtopic.php?p=13928539#p13928539

Yeah, based on looking at Purple’s other game, they seem capable of giving more analysis based on their other game, so I think this is just new scum who is struggling to give anything.

I don't normally read games by other players, but I checked this out. I don't see a ton of difference but there are a few posts that show the analysis Flavor is talking about here, and we really haven't seen anything like that from Purple here.

I wouldn't call it a glaring difference, but there's merit to this.

[Pavowski]

viewtopic.php?p=13928539#p13928539

Yeah, based on looking at Purple’s other game, they seem capable of giving more analysis based on their other game, so I think this is just new scum who is struggling to give anything.

I don't normally read games by other players, but I checked this out. I don't see a ton of difference but there are a few posts that show the analysis Flavor is talking about here, and we really haven't seen anything like that from Purple here.

I wouldn't call it a glaring difference, but there's merit to this.

Right. Particularly the post Flavor's link sends you to is like, way more than Purple has given in any post or series of posts in this game. It's worth a look and his ISO isn't that long.

[Pavowski]

Not a good look for Dragon’s ‘meta read’ either.

I haven't liked that from the start.

Meta reads are still able to be explained.

Now that I’m thinking about it, Hu Tao has explained their meta read on Dragon. (I have the counter to it, but they did explain why they are reading it that way) so could be Purple/Dragon.

Dragon has been pushing gut reads as meta, and they’re not explaining it, because it’s gut. Kyouko was a meta read, and why were they able to explain it with Kyouko and not Hu Tao or Purple?

Kyouko is town, Dragon explains the gut read.
Dragon explained the gut read on Purple a bit, it was earlier on, maybe d2. Not a lot, but how much could really be said?
Dragon resists explaining the Hu Tao gut read.

HPE/Dragon/Hu Tao?

I was thinking just 48 hours ago that if Dragon was scum Hu Tao had to be town.

[Pavowski]

I like Purple best because the game I linked they did show they could analyze. Gamma was in there too, so interesting.

But Purplee has scum equity with Hu Tao, Dragon, Gamma, and Geraint. Like I can case it for all 4, so I think Purple, in addition to thinking they are individually scummy, can be partnered with a lot.

If it’s Geraint/Purple/HPE, I think either HPE saw it, or they didn’t see the crumb and happened to get lucky hitting a cop.

Honestly I think anybody could be partnered with Purple. Put another way, I don't feel any particular partnering or distancing flowing toward or away from him, aside from Dragon townbinning him from the start, which is another reason I dunno if Purple is the flip for today. I don't know if his flip leads us anywhere.

I considered scum just getting lucky and hitting cop but in a field of 10 targets, the odds are against that, obviously. Why is Thom the target if they *didn't* pick up the crumb? Just doesn't pass the smell test to me. Somebody sniffed it out. But I guess it could've been HPE, so I guess that train of thought doesn't lead anywhere.

[Pavowski]

Dragon/Hu Tao feels too on the nose, but it’s possible. I think one of them are scum most of the time here, but i think one of them is just hard pocketed?

I just come back to, if Dragon is town, why are both he and you still alive?

Doesn't much address Dragon / Hu Tao, but I can't shake it. Somehow, though, I would still rather vote Hu Tao between the two of them.

Re: Purple, it occurred to me that pushing lurky slots is often an easy out for scum, but that doesn't feel like it's happening here. It's not foolproof, but there's at least one obvious reason why that might be.

[Pavowski]

Dragon/Hu Tao feels too on the nose, but it’s possible. I think one of them are scum most of the time here, but i think one of them is just hard pocketed?

I just come back to, if Dragon is town, why are both he and you still alive?

Doesn't much address Dragon / Hu Tao, but I can't shake it. Somehow, though, I would still rather vote Hu Tao between the two of them.

Re: Purple, it occurred to me that pushing lurky slots is often an easy out for scum, but that doesn't feel like it's happening here. It's not foolproof, but there's at least one obvious reason why that might be.

Like on the scumminess meter, I feel like Hu Tao hits it higher for me than Dragon. Dragon feels townier, but the mech bothers me *a lot*.

[Pavowski]

I should also take the opportunity while I'm making up for some missed time yesterday to say I'm fairly towny on Gamma. It feels to me like scum is either frozen or in a wait-and-see mode, and I don't think either of those work with scum!Gamma.

The AtE yesterday feels genuine, too. Fakeable, but genuine.

[Pavowski]

Yeet.

[Pavowski]

Eh dragon has some scummy pushes too

This is where meta might help me out, but it is what it is. I don't think Hu Tao is particularly doing any pushes at all, whereas Dragon is taking that leap. ofc scum can push but I feel like Hu Tao's detached play is +scum.

[Pavowski]

Dragon / Purple pinged me as very possible early on. But it's almost like, Dragon defended Purple entirely too much and with no justification if they're scum together.

I could be WIFOM'ing myself down a drain but I think scum!Dragon is leaning in awfully heavily to townread their buddy when there's little benefit to it, and it's not like Dragon was close to getting limmed at that point, such that we might end up thinking "Dragon flipped scum here, he defended Purple, obviously they're scumbuddies"

I dunno. This pairing would surprise me, I think

[Pavowski]

Votecount 4.5

With 8 players alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate. Day 4 ends in (expired on 2024-01-16 21:32:18).

Votecount

Hu Tao (2)

- Gamma Emerald, Flavor Leaf

cw357 (1)

- DragonEater70

DragonEater70 (1)

- cw357

Pavowski (1)

- Hu Tao

Purplemango (1)

- geraintm

Not Voting (2)

- Pavowski, Purplemango

Flavour

@ Pav and Purple

vote someone already!

Grumble, grumble.

VOTE: Hu Tao

E-2.

Your move, Purple.

[Pavowski]

It’s been 3 days since CW posted

They got a prod yesterday. But have been largely AWOL since a bit before HPE, it feels like

[Pavowski]

Last substantive post was last year.

[Pavowski]

In addition, I keep coming back to HPE following Dragon, and it just kind of seems like HPE/Purple were following their scum leader Dragon a lot.

So I’m not comfortable going outside of Hu Tao/Dragon/Purple today.

Let's say I'm scum together with dragon, wouldn't it be better for me to try less to be in contact with him?
That way if one of us is voted out, it will be more difficult to reach the other.
Or at least ask things and such separately, and not here (assuming that scum have the option to talk during the day, because the days are much longer) Like, it's possible, it just doesn't sound very effective

Less in contact with him? That implies you've been heavily im contact with him here in the thread, which does not at all strike me as the case.
This is just such an odd thing to say.

The assumption here might be a town tell, though.

[Pavowski]

I should clarify it might be a town tell specifically for Purple

[Pavowski]

I should clarify it might be a town tell specifically for Purple

[Pavowski]

I had a look back over the CW iso while waiting on replacement. If they're scum, they're bussing HPE hard and relentlessly for the whole game, even early on before the HPE Lim feels like a thing.

I think that's heavily +town even though I've had these nagging thoughts that their pullback from the game could have been triggered by static in the scum thread.

I should probably read the HPE iso back again.

[Pavowski]

Sorry, that's incredibly out of context. I was looking at an old unrefreshed view of the thread and thought I should fill the silence

[Pavowski]

Welcome Nurse, have you caught up on the game?

Uh

I wanna UNVOTE: for a mo here

[Pavowski]

I see we're on Day 4. Any IMPORTANT highlights I should know?

VOTE: Hu Tao

Flavor is conftown vig, Gera/purple/your slot have been lurky, Dragon is a claimed JK, the rest of us are claimed vanilla

[Pavowski]

Gera/purple/your slot have been lurky,

yeah, i have been. but i've got so little to go on i am just going by gut.

1 going by gut has nothing to do with lurk status
2 little to go on? My guy this game is almost 3000 posts

[Pavowski]

Okay so a 3/3 split

If Hu Tao flips scum we lock town Pav and if she flips town we lockscum Pav

Maybe

I am not actually good at VCA

The hell are you on about? I unvoted because nurse put her at e-1 all willy nilly and she potentially townspewed when she miscounted the vote

[Pavowski]

Oh nevermind you thought she was hammered also

[Pavowski]

I see we're on Day 4. Any IMPORTANT highlights I should know?

VOTE: Hu Tao

Flavor is conftown vig, Gera/purple/your slot have been lurky, Dragon is a claimed JK, the rest of us are claimed vanilla

...

What Day did Flavor claim Vig? How was he confTowned?

I don't care how my prior slot behaved given what

I

know.

What Day did Dragon claim JK?

Flavor claimed d2, the rest of us mostly claimed d3

Dragon claimed 2-shot jk on d3 but duped scum per his claim
Unless he's just scum fronting, there are potential mechanical issues

[Pavowski]

I see we're on Day 4. Any IMPORTANT highlights I should know?

VOTE: Hu Tao

Flavor is conftown vig, Gera/purple/your slot have been lurky, Dragon is a claimed JK, the rest of us are claimed vanilla

...

What Day did Flavor claim Vig? How was he confTowned?

I don't care how my prior slot behaved given what

I

know.

What Day did Dragon claim JK?

Flavor claimed d2, the rest of us mostly claimed d3

Dragon claimed 2-shot jk on d3 but duped scum per his claim
Unless he's just scum fronting, there are potential mechanical issues

So why is he still alive?

And I see Dragon is still alive, too?

Yeah, it's a problem

[Pavowski]

How come none of you chucklef*cks mentioned there was a dead Scum when I asked for a highlight earlier?

I assumed you at least glanced at the opening post that shows living players lmao

[Pavowski]

Is there any way possible FL could still be Scum in this format?

And yeah, I'm gonna ask to make sure.

There doesn't seem to be a way for scum to get 2 night kills and he claimed the vig shot with nobody contesting so

[Pavowski]

I've been hung up on whether Hu Tao as scum deliberately miscounts votes then tries to townspew

And watching you catch up has been entertaining

[Pavowski]

I unvoted when Nurse voted but I'll potentially go back when I trust my thought process

[Pavowski]

I unvoted when Nurse voted but I'll potentially go back when I trust my thought process

...oh?

You don't trust yourself?

What exactly is keeping you from voting Hu Tao?

Until the possible townspew not much

I unvoted when you jumped into the thread putting her at e-1, I didnt want a silly quickhammer happening with replacements coming onboard

I'm high so that's why I don't trust myself to vote again this minute, so if I revote it's gonna happen in the morning

[Pavowski]

I unvoted when Nurse voted but I'll potentially go back when I trust my thought process

...oh?

You don't trust yourself?

What exactly is keeping you from voting Hu Tao?

Until the possible townspew not much

I unvoted when you jumped into the thread putting her at e-1, I didnt want a silly quickhammer happening with replacements coming onboard

I'm high so that's why I don't trust myself to vote again this minute, so if I revote it's gonna happen in the morning

Do you trust yourself to post currently?

To post? Sure

To accurately solve the game? Unlikely

But I'm here and we're all having fun aren't we?

[Pavowski]

I unvoted when Nurse voted but I'll potentially go back when I trust my thought process

...oh?

You don't trust yourself?

What exactly is keeping you from voting Hu Tao?

Until the possible townspew not much

I unvoted when you jumped into the thread putting her at e-1, I didnt want a silly quickhammer happening with replacements coming onboard

I'm high so that's why I don't trust myself to vote again this minute, so if I revote it's gonna happen in the morning

Do you trust yourself to post currently?

To post? Sure

To accurately solve the game? Unlikely

But I'm here and we're all having fun aren't we?

...

...

Solving the game includes more than just voting and limming.

Solving includes posting.

So you're sober enough to solve via posting but not sober enough to solve via voting/limming?

Doesn't add up.

Bro I know how to play, this is how I do it

I vibe and once in a while I vote scum

[Pavowski]

I love Nurse's entrance into the game btw

As either alignment

[Pavowski]

I remember the time when Purple's only vote of the game was to hammer HPE when I was already gonna do it the next morning

That was neat

[Pavowski]

yeah, but pav is obv town.

To you

yeah cuz im also town

I lol'd.

[Pavowski]

Someone hammer.

Problem is we're at e-2 on Hu Tao by my count this morning (Gamma, Nurse, and Flavor).

I'm entirely unconvinced by Hu Tao's responses to pressure last night, but before I revote I'd like some input on this:

I've been hung up on whether Hu Tao as scum deliberately miscounts votes then tries to townspew

as it's the only thing stopping me from voting again right now.

[Pavowski]

Cuz like, I've played with some folks as scum who will just say whatever during twilight to try to muddy the waters next day but I'm not sure Hu Tao strikes me that way

[Pavowski]

I'm feeling pretty confident with a towncore of Flavor, Nurse, Gamma. Groundbreaking, I know.

My brain really doesn't want to accept that it could just be Purple/Gera here, but that pairing remains possible, and I was not a fan of Purple's posting last night or in general.

I guess it's time for me to re-read HPE.

[Pavowski]

Okay I should really be working on course work today but HERE GOES.

Spoiler: Lengthy speculation on HPE's iso under here

Honestly 145 feels like scum annoyed they're getting sus from Dragon early on more than it feels like legit distancing. +town for Dragon

Next several posts are fixated on Dragon. Scum!HPE probably shades their scumbuddy and moves on, the fact they keep on it feels +town for Dragon

Then they spend some time focusing their attention on, and bolstering their sus of, Lap and Thom. Given these green flips, it's interesting to compare this with their push on Dragon. The earlier Dragon push feels more tangential and fleeting, but maybe that's because Thom/Lap feel more like LHF at this point.

They barely mention HT, Purple, Gera or Kyo d1.

D2 they start off really trying to make CW happen and lamenting that CW wasn't vigged. This is heavy +town for Nurse. Flavor has previously flagged 862 as openly coordinating in the thread. Under that theory does scum!Dragon ask his scumbuddy to case one town (me) and one scum (Hu Tao) in the thread? That feels like a lot. 1028 and 1069 show them giving up pushing CW to turn on me under cover of sheeping Dragon.

...But then there's the CW wagon again and they're really excited. I guess that looks bad for me doesn't it? Ha.

WOO a reads ranking:

can you give me a short list for everyone?

Flavor Leaf

cw357

(but needs to Get Real or Get Dead)

DragonEater70

Hu Tao
ssbm_Kyouko (this one needs to bother reading her iso so fucking bad)
Purplemango

geraintm

Joyboy

Pavowski

Purplemango feels the best out of the 3 lurkers but all of them really, really need to start contributing.

I'ma circle back to this as it's the only such post we get.

1385 hops on the wagon for townie Kyo. Next several posts sparring with Kyo, whatever.

1486 they posit scumteam of Pav/Kyo/HT. Rule of 3 says 2 townies and 1 scummo in any scummo's set of 3; fmpov that leaves HT. Then (same post) says there's *at least* 2 scum in Pav/Kyo/HT/Dragon. If they're TMI'ing that's HT/Dragon.

More jousting with/about Kyo, then ... 1575 shades me, I guess? For unvoting Kyo. I didn't understand what they were trying to say then and I still don't.

1875 is so shady towards Dragon it's hard to see it being s/s. Feels, again, like genuine frustration for a townie not acting the way that one expected/wanted.

Then there's some serious Gera shade happening. HPE has now shaded every low content slot except Purple. In fact, in the reads list above they specifically said Purple was towny among the lurkers.

Then back-and-forth with Flavor, obviously pretty frustrated with his play since things are turning in that one's direction.

2145 they posit HT/Pav/Gera scum team. Rule of 3 fmpov says HT.

2265 feels worth a look:

so who's scum other than Geraint, and why?

I don't care at all about you trying to discredit, id rather see where your reads are.

first off you're kinda one to talk about discrediting rn, second off:

Pool is Pav/HT/lurker/Gamma. This one really doubts theres more than 1 scum in gera/cw/Purple but at the same time all of them being terrible awful no-substance slots 90% of the time doesn't help.

My primary concern is in HT because HT, as this one has noted, is fucking difficult as hell for me to read accurately.

On the other hand, Gamma voting cw during catch-up feels like a possible bus meant to keep attention away from her posturing on Kyouko until she was finished and could seal the deal, but this one is only really confident in HT/Gamma being aligned with how individually weird their interactions are, as HT likes pushing Gamma and Gamma likes completely disregarding HT's existence. Gamma has weird non-interaction with Pavowski too. HT/Gamma is definitely distancing, Gamma/Pavowski is... something. Especially with how Pavowski does seem interested in what others think of her slot and the way he talks about letting her finish her ISO.

Interesting is what I put in

turquoise

up there, because here I think is where HPE felt inevitable and this feels like distancing in that light. A pool of Pav/HT/lurker/Gamma is probably TMI'ing again. The lurker is probably not the ones HPE has actually pushed for.

2272 is kinda hilarious if my vibe read of Hu Tao in light of this iso is correct.

tl:dr I think HPE's iso is clearing for CW/Nurse and suggests town!Gera, and potentially town!Dragon. (It would townlock Flavor if we needed that.) I think it's *really* bad for Hu Tao and Purple, Hu Tao because of constant shade without ever actually trying to push there and Purple by virtue of the fact that Purple is *barely ever mentioned*. Note above that in that reads list both Purple and Hu Tao are smack in the middle, uncolored. I don't have a good bead on what it says about Gamma but I'm towny enough on Gamma I'm not that stressed about it.

Ok, no more readbacks for me today.

[Pavowski]

Pav/Gamma/Gera 2/3 is scum.

If we vote out in them we win

Pav might be scum, because I did try to push hpe

I did all that work and this is all you got?

I'm not doing another ISO dive, please linky linky your HPE push

[Pavowski]

Okay I should really be working on course work today but HERE GOES.

Spoiler: Lengthy speculation on HPE's iso under here

Honestly 145 feels like scum annoyed they're getting sus from Dragon early on more than it feels like legit distancing. +town for Dragon

Next several posts are fixated on Dragon. Scum!HPE probably shades their scumbuddy and moves on, the fact they keep on it feels +town for Dragon

Then they spend some time focusing their attention on, and bolstering their sus of, Lap and Thom. Given these green flips, it's interesting to compare this with their push on Dragon. The earlier Dragon push feels more tangential and fleeting, but maybe that's because Thom/Lap feel more like LHF at this point.

They barely mention HT, Purple, Gera or Kyo d1.

D2 they start off really trying to make CW happen and lamenting that CW wasn't vigged. This is heavy +town for Nurse. Flavor has previously flagged 862 as openly coordinating in the thread. Under that theory does scum!Dragon ask his scumbuddy to case one town (me) and one scum (Hu Tao) in the thread? That feels like a lot. 1028 and 1069 show them giving up pushing CW to turn on me under cover of sheeping Dragon.

...But then there's the CW wagon again and they're really excited. I guess that looks bad for me doesn't it? Ha.

WOO a reads ranking:

can you give me a short list for everyone?

Flavor Leaf

cw357

(but needs to Get Real or Get Dead)

DragonEater70

Hu Tao
ssbm_Kyouko (this one needs to bother reading her iso so fucking bad)
Purplemango

geraintm

Joyboy

Pavowski

Purplemango feels the best out of the 3 lurkers but all of them really, really need to start contributing.

I'ma circle back to this as it's the only such post we get.

1385 hops on the wagon for townie Kyo. Next several posts sparring with Kyo, whatever.

1486 they posit scumteam of Pav/Kyo/HT. Rule of 3 says 2 townies and 1 scummo in any scummo's set of 3; fmpov that leaves HT. Then (same post) says there's *at least* 2 scum in Pav/Kyo/HT/Dragon. If they're TMI'ing that's HT/Dragon.

More jousting with/about Kyo, then ... 1575 shades me, I guess? For unvoting Kyo. I didn't understand what they were trying to say then and I still don't.

1875 is so shady towards Dragon it's hard to see it being s/s. Feels, again, like genuine frustration for a townie not acting the way that one expected/wanted.

Then there's some serious Gera shade happening. HPE has now shaded every low content slot except Purple. In fact, in the reads list above they specifically said Purple was towny among the lurkers.

Then back-and-forth with Flavor, obviously pretty frustrated with his play since things are turning in that one's direction.

2145 they posit HT/Pav/Gera scum team. Rule of 3 fmpov says HT.

2265 feels worth a look:

so who's scum other than Geraint, and why?

I don't care at all about you trying to discredit, id rather see where your reads are.

first off you're kinda one to talk about discrediting rn, second off:

Pool is Pav/HT/lurker/Gamma. This one really doubts theres more than 1 scum in gera/cw/Purple but at the same time all of them being terrible awful no-substance slots 90% of the time doesn't help.

My primary concern is in HT because HT, as this one has noted, is fucking difficult as hell for me to read accurately.

On the other hand, Gamma voting cw during catch-up feels like a possible bus meant to keep attention away from her posturing on Kyouko until she was finished and could seal the deal, but this one is only really confident in HT/Gamma being aligned with how individually weird their interactions are, as HT likes pushing Gamma and Gamma likes completely disregarding HT's existence. Gamma has weird non-interaction with Pavowski too. HT/Gamma is definitely distancing, Gamma/Pavowski is... something. Especially with how Pavowski does seem interested in what others think of her slot and the way he talks about letting her finish her ISO.

Interesting is what I put in

turquoise

up there, because here I think is where HPE felt inevitable and this feels like distancing in that light. A pool of Pav/HT/lurker/Gamma is probably TMI'ing again. The lurker is probably not the ones HPE has actually pushed for.

2272 is kinda hilarious if my vibe read of Hu Tao in light of this iso is correct.

tl:dr I think HPE's iso is clearing for CW/Nurse and suggests town!Gera, and potentially town!Dragon. (It would townlock Flavor if we needed that.) I think it's *really* bad for Hu Tao and Purple, Hu Tao because of constant shade without ever actually trying to push there and Purple by virtue of the fact that Purple is *barely ever mentioned*. Note above that in that reads list both Purple and Hu Tao are smack in the middle, uncolored. I don't have a good bead on what it says about Gamma but I'm towny enough on Gamma I'm not that stressed about it.

Ok, no more readbacks for me today.

Purple was so absent it has been hard for anyone to have any interaction with them, would like to point that out

Siri, define "irony"

[Pavowski]

That sounded meaner than I intended, but still, lol Gera

[Pavowski]

Not sure why you're defending Purple here Gera, but if you're town and HPE was scum, why is that one pushing for your Lim but saying fuck-all about Purple?

[Pavowski]

Shazam

[Pavowski]

Why the hell's it so quiet in here?

Votecount 4.10

With 8 players alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate. Day 4 ends in 4 days, 6 hours, 30 minutes (frozen).

Votecount

Pavowski (3)

- Hu Tao, DragonEater70, geraintm

Hu Tao (3)

- Gamma Emerald, Random Nurse, Flavor Leaf

Not Voting (1)

- Purplemango

Flavour

I spent the whole day yesterday not realizing I was at e-2. Don't do drugs, kids.

Gera's vote on me is bad. It's so mind-bogglingly bad it's almost impossible it comes from scum.

Not sure why you're defending Purple here Gera, but if you're town and HPE was scum, why is that one pushing for your Lim but saying fuck-all about Purple?

I am not defining Purple, I was justvtrying to point out you couldn't attack someone else for having low interactions with them

By play, you could say you are defending Purple and Hu Tao.

Say Pav is conf town, who’s scum, Geraint?

Purple is my gut

If scum, Gera is playing so utterly without guile he deserves a medal. This just about takes Purple/Gera off the table for me.

[Pavowski]

@Purple - join Hu tao with us.

Purple don't let them pressure you. What are your reads?

I remember the time when Purple's only vote of the game was to hammer HPE when I was already gonna do it the next morning

That was neat

It was mostly because you said you were going to do it, and it was very clear that hpe scum
Right now this is less the case for me anyway

Are you voting anyone currently?

not really
maybe tomorrow, We have at least four days, and that's something more impactful than just talking

I do generally support voting for hu tao

Do something, Purple. Do any of these things.

[Pavowski]

Not ignored, just pondering the possibilities. The poe is getting pretty small.

[Pavowski]

Fully entertaining the possibility that both current wagons are town. Doesn't feel likely but doesn't feel impossible either

[Pavowski]

Like if Hu Tao is town with me then wtf are scum doing right now

[Pavowski]

hu tao, you town?

Yes

[Pavowski]

Flavor is confirmed vigilante.
Dragoneater has claimed JK, and claimed targeting Flavor last 2 nights. No kills last two nights.
Everybody else has claimed vanilla.

[Pavowski]

To clarify, dragon claimed spent 2-shot jk on d3 to bait a shot on Flavor, is the claim.
That's unconfirmed of course and could be gambitry, we discussed it a fair bit start of this day.

[Pavowski]

The main thing in favor of this is, it's possible.
The main thing against is it seems to leave the scum side underpowered.
Like if scum has an RB or similar Dragon should have been blocked and Flavor killed regardless.

[Pavowski]

Pav why is Dragon voting for you if he jailed FL twice in a row and there were no kills?

Dragon finds my towniness unconvincing for some reason.

[Pavowski]

2 kills n1, he claimed abnegation shot, no counterclaim.
There doesn't seem to be a way for scum to get 2 kills.

[Pavowski]

CW/Nurse is probably the cleanest player in here if you go by the HPE iso.

[Pavowski]

Dragon would have no killed two nights in a row if scum here

Yep, he did it in this game that I keep referencing. And he also called me town super early that game when I hadn't done much, similar to what he did with Hu this game

I'm trying to decide if scum!Dragon would pull the same stunt in games that are so close together

Did it work in that game?

[Pavowski]

All these fools would kill me twice in a row when I really think about it

But if there's cop/vig/jk like .... Surely scum have a RB or an unblockable kill or ... something?

[Pavowski]

Is that a recent development Flavor? I've been waiting on somebody to tell me if my recent reason to town read Hu Tao is crazy

[Pavowski]

This is the bad place

Pav, i see it now.

[Pavowski]

@Pav - do you feel what I’m saying about the intangible with Dragon?

I think it was yesterday, or at least recently, that you said you had all kinds of reasons to scumread Dragon but tonally, you think he's town.

I think I agree with that.

I still hang up on the mechanics of how town has 3 PRs and scum have gotten wrecked in the night actions, and I still don't see how we make it to the endgame with him alive, but I do feel a certain towniness emanating from Dragon.

[Pavowski]

Flavor did you consider Hu Tao miscounting votes a couple days ago and thinking she was limmed? I keep going in circles on whether that's faked or not. Like it's not hard to fake, but I dunno if Hu Tao does it (she claims she never has)

AND NOBODY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IT

Except Hu Tao of course, which isn't the help I want

[Pavowski]

I’m in a middle ground where it’s either a really good sign Black paired up with my Hu Tao/Dragon from before or a really bad sign.

Hu Tao/Dragon have been unnaturally linked like that since early game, and a lot of times it felt too much to be S/S, but i have thought about the ‘do they do that as scum here?’

UNVOTE: Geraint

I gotta take some time to think

I am fairly certain if I was scum you would have got that from me by now. The fact you haven't means (to me) that you know I am not and are just confused

This is like the most cromulent thing Gera has posted in this entire game

[Pavowski]

God. I see like, all the cases at this point, lol.

I like to think I was able to make some kind of meaning out of my HPE readback.

From that I leaned toward a team of Hu Tao / Purple. I feel a lot less confident it's Hu Tao than that it's Purple.

CW/Nurse's clean as can be from HPE's iso. I think Gera's pretty good. DE also feels ok. Gamma/Black's a question mark.

Both in Purple / Gamma/Black / Gera if I'm gonna trust my sudden gut read on Hu Tao?

So ... ugh I hate it for the less info but I might be back to wanting Purple for today, on a personal level to test my read of HPE if nothing else

[Pavowski]

God. I see like, all the cases at this point, lol.

I like to think I was able to make some kind of meaning out of my HPE readback.

From that I leaned toward a team of Hu Tao / Purple. I feel a lot less confident it's Hu Tao than that it's Purple.

CW/Nurse's clean as can be from HPE's iso. I think Gera's pretty good. DE also feels ok. Gamma/Black's a question mark.

Both in Purple / Gamma/Black / Gera if I'm gonna trust my sudden gut read on Hu Tao?

So ... ugh I hate it for the less info but I might be back to wanting Purple for today, on a personal level to test my read of HPE if nothing else

Weeeoooooooow you can feel my grammar deteriorating in real time in that last sentence. I feel strongest about my Purple vote and would vote there first, even though a flip like Gamma or Dragon gives us way more info.

[Pavowski]

I don’t think I see Purple Scum.

I mean I'm still kind of under the assumption we've got 1 lurker and 1 active scummo, which meant one of cw/Nurse, Purple, Gera and one of Hu Tao, Dragon, Gamma

I think Purple is the most likely out of Nurse/Purple/Gera set

[Pavowski]

Maybe I do. They hammered HPE as their only vote, right?

Hmm.

My issue with Purple right now is that I still think Dragon could be the partner, so a Purple scum flip leaves us in Dragon vs Black.

I think I’m leaning fading Black, shooting Purple, Dragon jails me.

If I die AND a kill goes through, Dragon is scum.

I think forcing scum to kill in Dragon/Hu Tao/Geraint/Pav/CW will give us a lot.

Worst case scenario, you go into tomorrow 4-2 without Black and I in the game.

Damn, that’s not good if Dragon is scum.

Damn. This is tough.

I think Dragon jails me, if I die and a kill doesn’t go through, then it’s always Dragon.

I think we go Black for info/higher chance of being scum.

If Black is scum, Black replaced into a scum slot and is admirable for the work they put in this deep in the game.

If we hit scum today, we get at least d5 and d6, time enough to yeet both Dragon and Black if we have to

[Pavowski]

Maybe I do. They hammered HPE as their only vote, right?

Hmm.

My issue with Purple right now is that I still think Dragon could be the partner, so a Purple scum flip leaves us in Dragon vs Black.

I think I’m leaning fading Black, shooting Purple, Dragon jails me.

If I die AND a kill goes through, Dragon is scum.

I think forcing scum to kill in Dragon/Hu Tao/Geraint/Pav/CW will give us a lot.

Worst case scenario, you go into tomorrow 4-2 without Black and I in the game.

Damn, that’s not good if Dragon is scum.

Damn. This is tough.

I think Dragon jails me, if I die and a kill doesn’t go through, then it’s always Dragon.

I think we go Black for info/higher chance of being scum.

If Black is scum, Black replaced into a scum slot and is admirable for the work they put in this deep in the game.

If we hit scum today, we get at least d5 and d6, time enough to yeet both Dragon and Black if we have to

And if tomorrow somehow turns up another no-kill night then no it isn't because I will literally die and become the death

[Pavowski]

Yeah, but we’re screwed if Purple flips town and in the same position basically as today.

Factual and frightening

[Pavowski]

I don’t think you did over CW.

Look at the damn vote count, I don't know if I ever die

[Pavowski]

I know I'm probably not getting it but I am gonna vote my best guess at the moment.

VOTE: Purple

I'll vote elsewhere today for flips but I don't think I'm ever voting Nurse or Gera.

[Pavowski]

Flavor don't do me like that, not after everything we've been thru

[Pavowski]

How to tell you’ve never seen a TownFlavor for 500.

To be clear I think town!you would be all over the place. It reminds me of town!me

Gamma actually did say something about how you were all over the place and it made it incredibly difficult for scum to manage.

That was Gamma talking about ME complaining about your (Flavor) flip-floppery and how that frustration on my part was scum-indicative

[Pavowski]

Here’s my idea:

Fade Black. Dragon jails me either way. If she’s town, fade Dragon.

If she’s scum, same thing.

Let’s go Black->Dragon.

If Dragon is ever blocked to get me killed, i will get a vig shot.

If we have another night with no deaths ... wait I already made this joke

[Pavowski]

Pav what is your read on my slot

It feels like you've been entertaining the idea of fading me but not really commiting to it

I am less confident in my read on your slot than any other one in the game, tbh. And it's not your fault, but the replacements, the prods ... this game is wearing me out, and I don't think I have the juice to read back another ISO filled by three players.

There was no reading joyboy. I liked Gamma's energy for town (A few days ago I was talking about Gamma being in my towncore). I like your energy too, though I haven't thought super-critically about you. But at this point we need a flip. Purple is my strongest scum read, but I think flipping in me, you, Dragon, or Hu Tao probably gives the survivors enough to solve.

Put another way, I have good reasons to townread just about every slot today, but when I stack them up, I can get to townreads on most other slots more easily than I can for yours.

The only slot I wouldn't vote today is Nurse. If that slot is scum I am extra-dumb and should retire. I mean, I'm dumb regardless, but yeah. Well, and Flavor, obvs. And myself cuz self-voting is wack and I am not doing the scummos that favor.

[Pavowski]

Welp there goes that theory

I tied myself in knots on d2 trying to figure out if Flavor could be bullshitting, so I feel your pain

[Pavowski]

Like I'm pulling most of my "confidence" in any of these reads from my readback of HPE's iso which I did a couple days ago. I think it looks bad on Hu Tao, good on Dragon, outstanding on CW/Nurse, bad on Purple, good on Geraint, and neutral on you (Black).

I'm not gonna pretend I've broken the game open with this assessment, but I'm gonna treat myself to an extra edible or two after the game if I picked at least one scum out of it.

[Pavowski]

I keep fluctuating on Hu Tao. Like I start the day thinking she's scummy, the HPE read shows scummy, but then the fuckery with the miscounted hammer has me leaning town.

I do find it interesting she's still on me as a "compromise" though, even though she's now saying I'm one of the towny ones in the POE. Lazy logic has me thinking 1 scum is currently on me, hoping I go through. I've been at e-2 for three days now, and comparatively little is being said about me or my wagon.

[Pavowski]

My bad, I was going by the vote count post and missed the unvote

I'm tired, you guys

[Pavowski]

About 3 days.

[Pavowski]

Have we played before, Pavowski?

Don't think so, unless you're an alt. I have no alts.

[Pavowski]

Have I mentioned I hate this game?

I swear on my rug, if Hu Tao is scum here...

VOTE: Black I hate to lim somebody who just repped in but I'm gonna sheep it, y'all can scumread me for it tomorrow. If this flips red it'll be worth it

Who's the other scum with HT, Black?

[Pavowski]

E-1

[Pavowski]

If purple hammers this...

[Pavowski]

Yeah ok it's yeeting time

[Pavowski]

I still think Hu Tao townslipped, I would still vote there otherwise. If I'm wrong ... Well it wouldn't be the first time and it for damn sure won't be the last

[Pavowski]

Omg he's gonna do it

[Pavowski]

Pass the popcorn Flava

[Pavowski]

She did speak in a scummy way
But she also just joined, so it's a bit strange to me

Just hammer me bro. This game is miserable

True even if scum

[Pavowski]

Ah ha, I see what you're doing there

No, I think there's a decent chance you flip green but we're getting nowhere

[Pavowski]

@Black - quick question, though

how did you expect Hu Tao to be faded today?

At most, we only ever got 4 votes, Pav, Gamma, CW, Myself.

Geraint, Purple, and Dragon were never voting there. Hu Tao was literally impossible to fade today.

Fucking this, every wagon hits a wall of "I'm never voting there"

[Pavowski]

Ah ha, I see what you're doing there

No, I think there's a decent chance you flip green but we're getting nowhere

What the fuck???

FADE THIS AFTER HU

Black you feel the pain of this game for three days

I've been in it for a month

The pain is real

[Pavowski]

Ah ha, I see what you're doing there

No, I think there's a decent chance you flip green but we're getting nowhere

What the fuck???

FADE THIS AFTER HU

Black you feel the pain of this game for three days

I've been in it for a month

The pain is real

We were saving you from this, Black. I hope you see that in time how absolutely delirious we are here

LMAO

This suffering is only for us

God please let me wake up dead (she won't)

[Pavowski]

Ah ha, I see what you're doing there

No, I think there's a decent chance you flip green but we're getting nowhere

What the fuck???

FADE THIS AFTER HU

Black you feel the pain of this game for three days

I've been in it for a month

The pain is real

We were saving you from this, Black. I hope you see that in time how absolutely delirious we are here

LMAO

This suffering is only for us

God please let me wake up dead (she won't)

[Pavowski]

Fucks sake, double posting jerkface

[Pavowski]

and if Dragon/Hu Tao are scum together, they won by tiring us out so much.

there's really not a scenario where im gonna feel bad if town lose here unless it's Geraint/Purple.

Either of these scenarios will have me blind with rage

[Pavowski]

There's gotta be a way FL is scum here. Something mechanical that everyone is overlooking. Feels too agenda driven

I also wish this were true, but there's no way out

[Pavowski]

and if Dragon/Hu Tao are scum together, they won by tiring us out so much.

there's really not a scenario where im gonna feel bad if town lose here unless it's Geraint/Purple.

Either of these scenarios will have me blind with rage

I dont see how anyone could think I'm leading this day phase.

i was literally all over the place, where was i leading people to

Hell, obviously

And we've arrived, please make sure to retrieve all baggage from the overhead compartments

[Pavowski]

Ah ha, I see what you're doing there

No, I think there's a decent chance you flip green but we're getting nowhere

What the fuck???

FADE THIS AFTER HU

Black you feel the pain of this game for three days

I've been in it for a month

The pain is real

We were saving you from this, Black. I hope you see that in time how absolutely delirious we are here

LMAO

This suffering is only for us

God please let me wake up dead (she won't)

Aren't you enjoy the game?

Oh, I'm having a great time over here

*Bursts into flame*

[Pavowski]

Having an even number also made this day phase quite difficult

If no bussing, all but one town have to agree. And given the vibe of this lobby I dunno if that ever happens

[Pavowski]

Deuces black, and good on you for the rep in, at least you juiced the game up

[Pavowski]

i am pocketed by Pav if im wrong, and im probably gonna stay in that pocket. it is accepted.

I have plenty of snacks in my pocket, you'll be fine in there.

I wish I were scum here so I could claim pocketing you, but alas

[Pavowski]

Having an even number also made this day phase quite difficult

If no bussing, all but one town have to agree. And given the vibe of this lobby I dunno if that ever happens

purple and RN's votes not in play either most of the time.

Purplemango. 2 votes, 2 hammers. Absolute legend

[Pavowski]

is it bad i kinda hope Black's town? like a scum flip is GREAT, but if Black is town, it shows I was probably on the right track this day phase.

I think that will really get my spirit back in this game, cuz i have been on autopilot since before Black showed up.

Given the game state we keep bemoaning, it feels almost impossible she's not green here. Lot of twilight fuckery if scum

[Pavowski]

Have I mentioned I hate this game?

I swear on my rug, if Hu Tao is scum here...

VOTE: Black I hate to lim somebody who just repped in but

I'm gonna sheep it, y'all can scumread me for it tomorrow

. If this flips red it'll be worth it

Who's the other scum with HT, Black?

It's coming Flavor, mark it

[Pavowski]

her flip is necessary to get Hu Tao Scum, though. There werent enough votes to get Hu Tao.

If scum!HT took me with that one little thing I'm gonna be pissed

At myself, but pissed nonetheless

[Pavowski]

i am pocketed by Pav if im wrong, and im probably gonna stay in that pocket. it is accepted.

I have plenty of snacks in my pocket, you'll be fine in there.

I wish I were scum here so I could claim pocketing you, but alas

im gonna die tonight and youre gonna get misfaded

i can feel it

At least if you die you get to make with the pew pew. What do you think the odds are?

[Pavowski]

Dragon over here talking like Black isn't already gift wrapped lol

[Pavowski]

So you CAN die at night and leave this game. I thought that was a myth.

I am fucking daunted at the moment realizing we are four to two, this feels terrible. Town has to align here

VOTE: Purple while I process a little

[Pavowski]

Why would you vote so quickly?

Because I want to plant a flag where I think we hit scum.

If Purple is town they need another vote before they could quickhammer him

[Pavowski]

I also need to decide whether I'll be willing to vote Dragon today because of the WIFOM, but I will always be willing to vote here today

[Pavowski]

So you think it's purple and dragon?

No,

Just noting that Dragon WIFOM is a thing that's gonna plague me this round no matter what

[Pavowski]

But I may be ready to accept some of the soulreads on Dragon based on tone

[Pavowski]

The game really could be Purple and Gera here, couldn't it

lmao

[Pavowski]

So you CAN die at night and leave this game. I thought that was a myth.

I am fucking daunted at the moment realizing we are four to two, this feels terrible. Town has to align here

VOTE: Purple while I process a little

Hate such a quick vote on the person I was voting for yesterday, you hoping I'll follow you there?

My current theory of the moment suggests you won't

Also hate the vote before people come back and confirm their night actions

Night actions will only be phrased in the form of Dragon jking Flavor

[Pavowski]

Wanna fade Hu Tao and blame it on Black if they’re town?

Not blaming a damn thing on Black for at least 24 hours, we did her dirty

[Pavowski]

RN kill does lean towards scum in Hu Tao/Dragon, though

Really? I think RN kill is the obvious move for scum last night regardless of who it is

[Pavowski]

Bloop

[Pavowski]

Wanna fade Hu Tao and blame it on Black if they’re town?

Not blaming a damn thing on Black for at least 24 hours, we did her dirty

nah, a misfade late in the game isn't doing someone dirty, especially after the day we had yesterday. More of a testament to scum team.

-1 to Pav.

You misunderstand

I'm saying she came in as town and gave it a go, if we misyeet Hu Tao today we can hardly blame that on Black

[Pavowski]

Fmpov, obviously, it's in purple/gera/hu tao if Dragon is legit, but shit, that wifom is brutal, like it's already hurting my head and I'm not thinking all that hard about it yet

I'm probably a lot more ready to vote either gera/purple before either hu tao or dragon right now. I tend to agree with you, Dragon has worked too hard for it

Well I mean obviously I'm ready to vote purple

Maybe we yeet Geraint first, maybe that gives us more to go on? Damn...

[Pavowski]

I guess I need to get rid of the idea of "first", we bollocks it up here we're just about cooked

[Pavowski]

The entire day yesterday was a lot of TvT which Pav and Purple both coasted through.

Then we finally settled on Black, and Pav said "cool there are actually enough votes for this lim", and voted, and told Purple to hammer in the scum PT.

Nope, sorry.

Why do I have my scumbuddy Purple hammer HPE? Purple doing that kept me from being on the one scum wagon we've had in this game. I am very aware of how yucky bad my votes look at the end of every day phase, there's no way scum!me doesn't get a piece of the bus on HPE. to balance the fact I'm on three green wagons.

Actually you *are* right, I *did* say "cool there are actually enough votes for this lim" because every other vote ran into the brick wall yesterday

And if we're scum together why am I all over Purple this day phase?

I get you're tired, and I sure am too, but Purple/Me is not the case here

[Pavowski]

It also explains why Dragon doesnt die in place of me.

See my theory of the case is that the scumteam has been keeping town!Dragon alive for the past two night phases for the WIFOMs.

Obviously scum!Dragon never gets NK'd. Flavor or Dragon should be getting targeted every night (assuming scum have an RB to balance a cop, vig, AND a jk, Dragon gets blocked/killed and then Flavor dies. If there's an RB scum *never* shoot into protection on Flavor two nights in a row).

So it's either scum!Dragon saying all the right things (a pretty deep play) or town!Dragon being left alive to drive people like me crazy

I decided to lean toward the latter in the last day phase and I guess I still do. Unfortunately, we can't really vote Dragon this day phase without kinda sorta betting the game on it. That ship sailed yesterday.

The question that won't let go of me is, if Dragon was blocked n1 (which was his claim) wtf has that blocker been doing the entire rest of the game? Sitting on that ability, letting town circle the drain? Pretty big gamble.

[Pavowski]

(But it might just work.)

My fear now is, they *do* have that RB, and if we misyeet Dragon today, they simply block/kill Flavor tonight, and that's the game.

We also stand in the unfortunate situation of needing 4 town to align to vote out scum here, which given the past day phase, makes me itch. It almost makes me want to vote no-lim today with Dragon JKing Flavor one last time, except there are issues with that plan, too.

I just don't know what to do here. The only thing I have to cling to is that Purple's two hammers are scummy as hell. Like Dragon, I think the scum partner told Purple to hammer in both cases (his timing on Black was pretty impeccable). Dragon's just wrong about who did the telling.

[Pavowski]

RN kill does lean towards scum in Hu Tao/Dragon, though

Really? I think RN kill is the obvious move for scum last night regardless of who it is

Why

For me, CW/RN was *almost* locktown given HPE's iso, and several other players had voiced an unwillingness to vote CW/RN if not outright saying they thought the slot was towny

If you're not going to kill Dragon or Flavor, you kill the slot that people are unlikely to vote for.

[Pavowski]

Have I mentioned I hate this game?

I swear on my rug, if Hu Tao is scum here...

VOTE: Black I hate to lim somebody who just repped in but I'm gonna sheep it, y'all can scumread me for it tomorrow. If this flips red it'll be worth it

Who's the other scum with HT, Black?

I'm not scum

I think Hu is just scum here

I'll dig deeper tomorrow

I'm town

Been there all game, Black.

I don't think it's a real read and she is purposely avoiding going into detail about it

How is this not a real read? I've explained my read over and over and over. I'm sorry you don't agree with it, but this is how I base my reads. I've not been wrong on him in any of my games.

I've explained over and over and over how it's a bad read and instead of reevaluating you're just ignoring all my points. It doesn't feel like you want to solve for Dragon. That's because you already know his alignment and are committed to the pocket attempt

Okay. Since you're new I'll level with you. Tell me why Dragon is scum here then.

I think Dragon might be town actually

You're scum though

VOTE: Hu Tao

hu tao, you town?

Yes

This is just the last few days of gameplay, but surely scum!Hu Tao is trying a little harder here, no? I mean I get that fmpov, if I accept Dragon is legit, Hu Tao has a 2/3 chance of being scum, but this is just, such a lazy effort if so

[Pavowski]

Ya know, come to think of it, (3683) a scumteam involving Dragon is the only team that's not gonna make me mad at the end of this game. If Dragon is scum here, it's a game well-played. Anybody else is just hiding, lurking, coasting. Boring.

I *guess* Hu Tao pocketing Dragon is a little less boring, but if scum her defense is just so weak sauce.

Also Dragon, purely off the topic here, but it's a bummer you and I don't seem to line up on time in the thread. I think if we could bounce it back and forth a little more rather than posting at/about each other when the other isn't around, you might have an easier time seeing I'm town here.

[Pavowski]

*sigh* I'm gonna quit spamming the thread here (what, nobody else is awake and playing mafia at 7am on a Sunday??) but I've just about circled back around to townreading Dragon and Hu Tao, leaving a scumteam of Purple/Gera.

Like .... shit. That can't be it. My brain will not accept this as the solve. This is why this game is wearing me out.

[Pavowski]

I just don't know what to do here. The only thing I have to cling to is that Purple's two hammers are scummy as hell. Like Dragon, I think the scum partner told Purple to hammer in both cases (his timing on Black was pretty impeccable). Dragon's just wrong about who did the telling.

This was also said in the context of HPE alone, but basically, assuming i'm scum, why do you think I need someone to tell me to hammer?
especially on two different days, and not here

Not saying you can't hammer until someone tells you to do so, but if you're scum with HPE there would have to be a discussion in the scum thread (well, I would hope) and it's not at all a stretch that it was discussed before you hammered Black as well.

The fact you have zero non-hammer votes is an extremely weird thing that the rest of us have to contend with. And Dragon, who has a meta read on you, has confirmed that as scum, you'll bus.

[Pavowski]

I also wanna flag that, as Dragon rightly points out, it very much looks like you and I could have coordinated to hammer Black. I'm in the thread talking about "what if Purple hammers this" and then you show up to hammer.

It's extremely ballsy and out in the open (and it's not what happened), but from Dragon's POV, it's pretty convenient for a lim on town!Black, which he claims he might have tried to derail otherwise.

Like from town!Dragon's POV, on d3 he sees me say I'll hammer HPE, but you hammer instead, so I don't end up on that wagon at day's end (aka I never bussed my partner). Then on d4 he sees me take a convenience vote on Black and give you plausibly deniable permission to hammer in the main thread while also saying "yes hammer this" in the scum thread.

The postgame will sort out the scum thread but I can actually see where he's coming from here (and it's not an un-towny train of thought). Luckily I'm voting you already, and I'm still happy with that vote.

[Pavowski]

Why would you vote so quickly?

Because I want to plant a flag where I think we hit scum.

If Purple is town they need another vote before they could quickhammer him

This is the other thing. I knew Dragon was gonna try to yeet me today and I was not gonna get pre-empted and have my push on Purple be seen as opportunistic and a response to pressure. No, I thought at the end of the day yesterday that Purple was a good vote, I think it's a good vote today, and if Dragon wants to continue to cast me and Purple as the team, he's gonna have to reconcile the fact that I'm hard-bussing my partner here, when there's a good chance that a town mislim today ends the game.

Is Purple LHF here? *Maybe*, but there's a distinct possibility we're living in a game where there is *only* LHF.

[Pavowski]

In fact Dragon pushing me just about makes the case for me that Dragon is town. Flavor has leaned real hard on his vibe-read of me as town for big portions of this game, and as Flavor says, if Dragon is town, he's going to have to convince Flavor to vote me.

I don't want to overstate my standing with Flavor, but there are other players in the lobby I think it would be easier for Dragon to align with Flavor to vote out than me. (Remember that any successful wagon today without Flavor on it by definition has scum on it, and as such is obviously a mislim or calculated bus. Dragon has to align with Flavor.) It feels like Dragon is pushing me because he believes the push.

[Pavowski]

More thread spam from me. Sorry. I just have a rare day here with not much to do.

[Pavowski]

Day 1

Spoiler:

1.1

DragonEater70 (1)

- geraintm

Flavor Leaf (1)

- Pavowski

Hu Tao (1)

-

Thomith

Not Voting (10)

-

Abnegation

,

cw357

, DragonEater70,

Flavor Leaf

,

HighPrincessErinys

, Hu Tao,

Laplacian

,

Gamma Emerald

, Purplemango,

ssbm_Kyouko

1.2

Flavor Leaf (3)

- Pavowski,

Flavor Leaf

,

cw357

Pavowski (2) -

Thomith

,

Laplacian

Abnegation (1)

-

Abnegation

DragonEater70 (1)

- geraintm

Laplacian (1)

-

ssbm_Kyouko

Not Voting (5)

- DragonEater70,

HighPrincessErinys

, Hu Tao,

Gamma Emerald

, Purplemango

1.3

Laplacian (4)

-

ssbm_kyouko

,

Abnegation

, Pavowski,

HighPrincessErinys

Flavor Leaf (2)

-

Flavor Leaf

,

cw357

Abnegation (1)

-

Laplacian

cw357

(1)

-

Gamma Emerald

DragonEater70 (1)

- geraintm

HighPrincessErinys

(1)

- DragonEater70

Not Voting (3)

- Hu Tao, Purplemango,

Thomith

1.4

Laplacian (5)

-

ssbm_kyouko

,

Abnegation

, Pavowski,

HighPrincessErinys

, geraintm

HighPrincessErinys

(3)

- Hu Tao,

Flavor Leaf

, DragonEater70

Flavor Leaf (1)

-

cw357

Abnegation (1)

-

Laplacian

cw357

(1)

-

Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (2)

- Purplemango,

Thomith

1.5

Laplacian (5)

-

ssbm_kyouko

,

Abnegation

, Pavowski,

HighPrincessErinys

, geraintm

Abnegation (2)

- DragonEater70,

Flavor Leaf

Gamma Emerald

(2)

-

cw357

, Hu Tao

cw357 (1)

-

Gamma Emerald

HighPrincessErinys

(1)

-

Laplacian

Not Voting (2)

- Purplemango,

Thomith

1.6

Laplacian (7)

-

ssbm_kyouko

,

Abnegation

, Pavowski,

HighPrincessErinys

, geraintm, DragonEater70,

Flavor Leaf

Gamma Emerald

(2)

-

cw357

, Hu Tao

cw357 (1)

-

Gamma Emerald

HighPrincessErinys

(1)

-

Laplacian

Not Voting (2)

- Purplemango,

Thomith

Day 2

Spoiler:

2.1

cw357

(2)

-

Flavor Leaf

,

HighPrincessErinys

Flavor Leaf

(1)

-

cw357

geraintm (1)

-

Gamma Emerald

Gamma Emerald

(1)

- Hu Tao

Pavowski (1)

- DragonEater70

Not Voting (4)

- geraintm, Pavowski, Purplemango,

ssbm_Kyouko

2.2

cw357

(4) - DragonEater70,

cw357

,

HighPrincessErinys

, Hu Tao
geraintm (1) -

Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (5) -

Flavor Leaf

, geraintm, Pavowski[, Purplemango,

ssbm_Kyouko

2.3

cw357

(3) -

cw357

,

HighPrincessErinys

, Hu Tao
geraintm (1) -

Gamma Emerald

Pavowski (1) -

ssbm_Kyouko

ssbm_Kyouko

(2) -

Flavor Leaf

, DragonEater70

Not Voting (4) - geraintm, Pavowski, Purplemango

2.4

cw357 (1) - cw357

geraintm (1) -

Gamma Emerald

Pavowski (1) -

ssbm_Kyouko

ssbm_Kyouko

(4) -

Flavor Leaf

, DragonEater70,

HighPrincessErinys

, Pavowski

Not Voting (3) - geraintm, Purplemango, Hu Tao

2.5

cw357 (1) - cw357

geraintm (1) -

Gamma Emerald

Pavowski (1) -

ssbm_Kyouko

ssbm_Kyouko (3) -

Flavor Leaf

,

HighPrincessErinys

, Pavowski

Not Voting (4) - geraintm, Purplemango, Hu Tao, DragonEater70

2.6

cw357 (1) - cw357

ssbm_Kyouko

(4) -

Flavor Leaf,

HighPrincessErinys

, Pavowski, Hu Tao

HighPrincessErinys

(1) -

ssbm_Kyouko

Not Voting (4) - geraintm, Purplemango, DragonEater70,

Gamma Emerald

2.7

ssbm_Kyouko

(4) -

Flavor Leaf

,

HighPrincessErinys

, Hu Tao,

cw357

HighPrincessErinys

(1) -

ssbm_Kyouko

cw357 (1) - Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (4) - geraintm, Purplemango, DragonEater70, Pavowski

2.8

ssbm_Kyouko

(4) -

Flavor Leaf

, HighPrincessErinys, Hu Tao,

cw357

HighPrincessErinys

(1) -

ssbm_Kyouko

Gamma Emerald

(1) - DragonEater70

Not Voting (4) - geraintm, Purplemango, Pavowski,

Gamma Emerald

2.9

ssbm_Kyouko

(5) -

Flavor Leaf

,

HighPrincessErinys

, Hu Tao, Pavowski,

cw357

Gamma Emerald (2) - DragonEater70,

ssbm_Kyouko

Not Voting (3) - geraintm, Purplemango,

Gamma Emerald

2.10

ssbm_Kyouko

(6) -

Flavor Leaf

,

HighPrincessErinys

, Pavowski, Hu Tao,

cw357, Gamma Emerald

Gamma Emerald

(2) - DragonEater70,

ssbm_Kyouko

Not Voting (3) - geraintm, Purplemango

Day 3

Spoiler:

3.1

DragonEater70 (1) -

Flavor Leaf

geraintm (1) -

HighPrincessErinys

HighPrincessErinys

(1) - DragonEater70

Not Voting (6) -

cw357, Gamma Emerald

, geraintm, Hu Tao, Pavowski, Purplemango

3.2

cw357

(1) - Pavowski
DragonEater70 (1) -

Flavor Leaf

geraintm (1) -

HighPrincessErinys

HighPrincessErinys

(1) -

DragonEater70

Pavowski (1) -

Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (4) -

cw357

, geraintm, Hu Tao, Purplemango

3.3

HighPrincessErinys

(5) - DragonEater70, Hu Tao,

Gamma Emerald

,

Flavor Leaf

, Purplemango

cw357

(1) - Pavowski
geraintm (1) -

HighPrincessErinys

Not Voting (2) -

cw357

, geraintm

Day 4

Spoiler:

4.2

Pavowski (2) -

Gamma Emerald

, DragonEater70
DragonEater70 (1) -

Flavor Leaf

geraintm (1) - Hu Tao

Not Voting (4) -

cw357

, geraintm, Pavowski, Purplemango

4.3

Pavowski (2) - DragonEater70, Flavor Leaf
DragonEater70 (2) -

Gamma Emerald, cw357

geraintm (1) - Hu Tao

Not Voting (3) - geraintm, Pavowski, Purplemango

4.4

DragonEater70 (2) -

cw357, Flavor Leaf

Pavowski (2) - DragonEater70, Hu Tao
Hu Tao (1) - geraintm
Purplemango (1) - geraintm

Not Voting (2) - Pavowski, Purplemango

4.5

Hu Tao (2) -

Gamma Emerald, Flavor Leaf

cw357

(1) - DragonEater70
DragonEater70 (1) -

cw357

Pavowski (1) - Hu Tao
Purplemango (1) - geraintm

Not Voting (2) - Pavowski, Purplemango

4.6

Hu Tao (2) -

Gamma Emerald

, Pavowski
Purplemango (2) - geraintm,

Flavor Leaf

cw357

(1) - DragonEater70
DragonEater70 (1) -

cw357

Pavowski (1) - Hu Tao

Not Voting (1) - Purplemango

4.7

DragonEater70 (2) -

cw357, Flavor Leaf

Pavowski (2) - Hu Tao, DragonEater70
Hu Tao (1) - Pavowski
Purplemango (1) - geraintm

Not Voting (2) -

Gamma Emerald

, Purplemango

4.8

Hu Tao (4) - Pavowski,

Gamma Emerald, Flavor Leaf, Random Nurse

Pavowski (2) - Hu Tao, DragonEater70
Purplemango (1) - geraintm

Not Voting (1) - Purplemango

4.9

Pavowski (3) - Hu Tao, DragonEater70, geraintm
Hu Tao (2) -

Gamma Emerald, Random Nurse

Not Voting (3) - Flavor Leaf, Pavowski, Purplemango

4.10

Pavowski (3) - Hu Tao, DragonEater70, geraintm
Hu Tao (3) -

Gamma Emerald, Random Nurse, Flavor Leaf

Not Voting (2) - Pavowski, Purplemango

4.11

Pavowski (3) - Hu Tao, DragonEater70, geraintm
Hu Tao (2) -

Gamma Emerald, Random Nurse

geraintm (1) -

Flavor Leaf

Not Voting (2) - Pavowski, Purplemango

4.12

Pavowski (2) - DragonEater70, geraintm

Black

(2) - Hu Tao,

Flavor Leaf

DragonEater70 (1) -

Black

Hu Tao (1) -

Random Nurse

Purplemango (1) - Pavowski

Not Voting (1) - Purplemango

4.13

Black

(3) - Hu Tao,

Flavor Leaf

, DragonEater70
Hu Tao (2) -

Random Nurse, Black

Purplemango (2) - Pavowski, geraintm

Not Voting (1) - Purplemango

4.14

Black

(3) - Hu Tao,

Flavor Leaf

, DragonEater70
Hu Tao (2) -

Random Nurse, Black

Purplemango (2) - Pavowski, geraintm

Not Voting (1) - Purplemango

4.15

Black (5) - Hu Tao,

Flavor Leaf

, DragonEater70, Pavowski, Purplemango
Hu Tao (2) -

Random Nurse, Black

Purplemango (1) - geraintm

Not Voting (0)

For me to be scum, it would require me on day 3 to not get involved at all in any counter wagons to my partner and letting them go down without a fight. This is so not my scum game. I didn't even try and get some town cred by joining their wagon.

So what exactly *were* you doing day 3?

[Pavowski]

So i think it's pav purple. With pav trying to set up a bus for tomorrow he's likely rber. So pav should be the vote today.

I won't vote yet but willing to go there

I ain't bussing anything tomorrow, I want Purple dead today

[Pavowski]

Anyway, if you think I'm scum, you should be ready to vote me. Whose permission are you waiting for? Flavor's already signaling he's ready to vote me, Dragon's *already* voting me.

[Pavowski]

I dunno if I'm in the right headspace right now, I read that post from Hu Tao and all I can think is that it oozes scum vibes. Gonna step away a bit and see if I have better thoughts than a reflexive OMGUS.

[Pavowski]

Actually how come this wasn't hammered

@Pav didn't you say that you settled on Black because you just wanted a lim? Why didn't you vote HT there?

If memory serves I unvoted partially because replacements were coming onboard and partially because I was wavering in my scum lean on Hu Tao when she posted thinking she was hammered.

[Pavowski]

But that's like one point in her favor against a yucky feel from HT for most of the game. Possible I let it sway me too much in the moment. It didn't seem to flag anybody else.

[Pavowski]

VOTE: Dragon

This is so out of left field. Your last solve was me/purple. Please to explain

[Pavowski]

You mean test to see if I'll hammer?

[Pavowski]

Cop and Vig vs Roleblocker Goon Goon does feel alright too.

In theory, if scum goes down day 1, they could lose on Day 2 with Guilty/Vig, so power is fine.

Cop, Vig, Jailkeeper vs Blocker Goon Goon still works, I think, but a lot stronger for scum. It could be 2 PR’s on scum in that case, a Blocker and then a 1-shot BP or something.

So setup wise, I can see Dragon either way.

Idk. I’m torn.

I just don't think agonizing over the mech gets us anywhere. Except to say that if Dragon is legit and we yeet him today, that's the game, cuz you'll be blocked and killed tonight.

Maybe if we yeet anybody not named Dragon and he attempts to use his jk as a block instead, but there's no guarantee that works.

We just have to take a leap of faith on him one way or another. I would rather go Purple or Hu Tao.

[Pavowski]

Bloop.

[Pavowski]

Cop and Vig vs Roleblocker Goon Goon does feel alright too.

In theory, if scum goes down day 1, they could lose on Day 2 with Guilty/Vig, so power is fine.

Cop, Vig, Jailkeeper vs Blocker Goon Goon still works, I think, but a lot stronger for scum. It could be 2 PR’s on scum in that case, a Blocker and then a 1-shot BP or something.

So setup wise, I can see Dragon either way.

Idk. I’m torn.

I just don't think agonizing over the mech gets us anywhere. Except to say that if Dragon is legit and we yeet him today, that's the game, cuz you'll be blocked and killed tonight.

Maybe if we yeet anybody not named Dragon and he attempts to use his jk as a block instead, but there's no guarantee that works.

We just have to take a leap of faith on him one way or another. I would rather go Purple or Hu Tao.

No, this doesn't work. If we mislim today and Dragon is scum, scum!Dragon just jails you and kills anybody else for the lolz.

Leap of faith.

Fuck.

[Pavowski]

Or if he's scum we lose regardless unless we vote scum here

Yeah.

[Pavowski]

Presumably if we limmed Dragon and you die tonight, we'd be in mountainous from there out right? With hopefully 1 scum left to find out of ... what ... we'd have 5 alive tomorrow?

Shit if Dragon is scum and you shoot true the game could end tonight

Putting mech issues behind us *does* sound tempting, and we'll have to solve the question of Dragon sooner or later anyway

No need to rush it though.

I remember when this was possible. It was too good for this game, though. We had to do this to ourselves. We were all so innocent then

[Pavowski]

Geraint voting alongside their main scum read Pav is baaaaaaaad. Purely a saving Black vote.

No, Purple was where I was before Pav, but at that time no one else wanted it. All I am.doing is moving my vote back where it was

*Sigh* Gera is town, isn't he

Purple/Hu Tao/Dragon 2/3 scum

Hello darkness, my old friend

[Pavowski]

Cop and Vig vs Roleblocker Goon Goon does feel alright too.

In theory, if scum goes down day 1, they could lose on Day 2 with Guilty/Vig, so power is fine.

Cop, Vig, Jailkeeper vs Blocker Goon Goon still works, I think, but a lot stronger for scum. It could be 2 PR’s on scum in that case, a Blocker and then a 1-shot BP or something.

So setup wise, I can see Dragon either way.

Idk. I’m torn.

I just don't think agonizing over the mech gets us anywhere. Except to say that if Dragon is legit and we yeet him today, that's the game, cuz you'll be blocked and killed tonight.

Maybe if we yeet anybody not named Dragon and he attempts to use his jk as a block instead, but there's no guarantee that works.

We just have to take a leap of faith on him one way or another. I would rather go Purple or Hu Tao.

Fuck, am I actually townreading Pav now? No fucking way

Optimistic brain loves this, town!Dragon is finally figuring it out

Skeptical brain hates this, scum!Dragon is considering giving up on misyeeting me today

The timing is convenient, but then somebody is gonna have to change their mind on SOMEBODY here.

I just want optimistic brain to be right.

BLARG

I have no clue who scum is lol

Like i literally town read all yall, and everything i got is just paranoia tin foils.

But some of my paranoia tin foils are correct

I know your struggle Flavor

Thirded, the motion carries

[Pavowski]

Look, is it ... Is it *crazy* to consider no-lim today?

I mean ffs the last thing I want to do is drag this game out further but I just feel like getting 4 town to align perfectly is ... Very far away. Scum win with almost any mislim, a bus feels exceedingly unlikely.

And I know, tomorrow we still have to have 3 town align to win but that's one less person, and the NK would give us more to go on.

I mean imagine how your thinking changes when one of us is confirmed along with Flavor.

That *seems* to me like a better universe for town than the one we're in here.

Please feel free to explain to me all the reasons this is stupid and bad.

[Pavowski]

HOLY SHIT I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING

I thought today was Melo but actually, if scum quickhammers a townie today, Flavor and I jail/vig randomly between the quickhammerers. I have 50% chance to stop the kill. If scum blocks me, then Flavor has 100% chance to kill scum. If scum blocks Flavor it's 50% chance to stop the kill and 50% chance to lose. If scum blocks neither, we have 75% chance to either block the kill or kill scum.

Which means hammer tests are completely useless.

What this ALSO means is if we can lock one person as town (I'm leaning on that one person being geraint), then even if we miselim today we still have 50% to win.

Also if we miselim Flavor NEVER shoots me because if I'm scum I just block him and win, so for his shot to go through I have to be town.

Processing this. It assumes a quickhammer from scum, which might not happen (and feels less likely with this out there), but I'm glad it's out there.

Does scum!Dragon make this post?

[Pavowski]

Thanks. Don't address the idea or anything, that would be very silly indeed

[Pavowski]

Dammit Dragon. Seriously. I'm actually annoyed right now

I'm over here trying to engage with the thread and wrangle with this heinous situation, which at the very least, I have bemoaned, Flavor has bemoaned, and you have bemoaned. I'm trying to find town. I WANT YOU TO BE TOWN.

And I float this idea and you're just "eh. Scum." I 100% get that what I suggested could benefit scum. We lose a day, we don't get those votes on the record... I get it. What I asked was whether it was crazy to think it might benefit town considering where we're at.

I am town trying to find town. You think discrediting me like that feels to me like town trying to find town? No, it feels to me like scum!Dragon saying THANK HELL, HERE'S A REASON TO PUSH PAV. If you're town trying to win, I don't know how to break it to you, but YOU NEED MY VOTE.

You think I'm scum for it, that's fine. I'm used to you scum reading me for any reason you can grab onto. You're tired. I'm tired. This game is fucking brutal. But at least engage with what I said. Tell me why it's scummy. You think scum!pav made this post that's so obviously scummy everybody should just recognize it as scummy, but yet, I went ahead and made it anyway?GTFO.

Just... Jesus. Engage. If you're town, explain to the room and to me *why* my idea only comes from scum. I can't wait to hear it.

Please.

[Pavowski]

I do think it's possible that I needed a reset. And its not like scum can quick vote right now so I don't see the issue of voting you at the moment dragon

The issue is not with voting me, it's with the lack of reasoning. But you know what, I'll let you have a reset.

I think I might need a reset myself.

Fucking thirded. Motion to reset carries.

[Pavowski]

I apologize for the blowup but we have to find each other if you're town, dragon. I'm close, but don't shut the door in my face.

[Pavowski]

And frankly, Hu Tao feels like Hu Tao that game.

Like every inkling in my body wants to take Hu Tao out. Even then turning on Dragon when they did. But like…that could be Hu Tao, and it’s Tuesday, so they’re probably town.

Sorry, was Hu Tao town in this game you're referencing?

I don't mind you using it to frame this situation, it just obviously isn't gonna help me much.

[Pavowski]

Okay, full disclosure.

I don’t have more vig shots. I was 2-shot.

It’s another reason I was skeptical of Dragon with them claiming 2-shot earlier and then retracting.

So if we misfade, we lose.

If dragon is scum and we misfade, we lose.

If dragon is town and we misfade, he could potentially jail the killer or protect the kill target... Right?

[Pavowski]

Towncase if it helps you Flavor, but I dunno how much it's going to move me at this point. I think it's Hu Tao / Purple. It would take a lot for me to vote Gera and as much as it'll hurt, if Dragon is scum here, he probably deserves the W. Between the tone and the sheer cojones needed for the mech play, I think he's town.

[Pavowski]

Votecount 5.3

With 6 players alive, it takes 4 votes to eliminate. Day 5 ends in (expired on 2024-01-30 19:27:15).

Votecount

DragonEater70 (1)

- Hu Tao

Hu Tao (1)

- Flavor Leaf

Purplemango (1)

- Pavowski

Pavowski (1)

- DragonEater70

Not Voting (2)

- geraintm, Purplemango

Flavour

If Purple voted geraint and geraint voted Flavor, we'd be like a snake eating it's own tail.

So am I like supposed to believe a narrative where town!Pav innocently commented about Purple hammering, and then town!Purple thought it was funny and hammered?

When Purple votes Geraint for the lolz, that means you guys are scum together, right?

[Pavowski]

Iam banking on scum bussing, yes.

This actually strikes me as a towny thought despite being so very wrong

[Pavowski]

Another thing that occured to me re: Purple is that Purple almost only ever posts reads or impressions in response to other people asking. It's rare for him to volunteer information or muse openly in the thread. Now maybe there's some meta there, maybe this is just the way he does it, but this is another thing that strikes me as untowny about his play.

Hu Tao is similar, but not at the same level. She'll tell you what she thinks but it usually takes some digging to get to why.

Gera is in this boat too but has started volunteering reads more openly, this day phase especially. I wish it had happened earlier in the game, but wishes and wants are worth exactly nothin' in this world