Mini Normal 2322: Game Over

[DragonEater70]

Pav didn't get on me because there weren't enough town votes on me. There were enough town votes on Black, so he got on her. Easy.

[DragonEater70]

Purple busses as scum

Having his hammer on HPE be his first vote in the game is +scum to him (though only slightly because I can see him also doing it as town). Then hammering a miselim after he never did it before probably happened because Pav told him to.

[DragonEater70]

If purple hammers this...

I didn't really understand from reading what the case was against black
But when you say it like that...

She did speak in a scummy way
But she also just joined, so it's a bit strange to me

Fade Hu Tao tomorrow. And don't listen to FL no matter what he says, unless he says to fade Hu Tao

So just to fade hu tao and ignore FL?
anyway
VOTE:

black

Is this an actual progression? Idk.

[DragonEater70]

Bye

[Pavowski]

The entire day yesterday was a lot of TvT which Pav and Purple both coasted through.

Then we finally settled on Black, and Pav said "cool there are actually enough votes for this lim", and voted, and told Purple to hammer in the scum PT.

Nope, sorry.

Why do I have my scumbuddy Purple hammer HPE? Purple doing that kept me from being on the one scum wagon we've had in this game. I am very aware of how yucky bad my votes look at the end of every day phase, there's no way scum!me doesn't get a piece of the bus on HPE. to balance the fact I'm on three green wagons.

Actually you *are* right, I *did* say "cool there are actually enough votes for this lim" because every other vote ran into the brick wall yesterday

And if we're scum together why am I all over Purple this day phase?

I get you're tired, and I sure am too, but Purple/Me is not the case here

[Pavowski]

It also explains why Dragon doesnt die in place of me.

See my theory of the case is that the scumteam has been keeping town!Dragon alive for the past two night phases for the WIFOMs.

Obviously scum!Dragon never gets NK'd. Flavor or Dragon should be getting targeted every night (assuming scum have an RB to balance a cop, vig, AND a jk, Dragon gets blocked/killed and then Flavor dies. If there's an RB scum *never* shoot into protection on Flavor two nights in a row).

So it's either scum!Dragon saying all the right things (a pretty deep play) or town!Dragon being left alive to drive people like me crazy

I decided to lean toward the latter in the last day phase and I guess I still do. Unfortunately, we can't really vote Dragon this day phase without kinda sorta betting the game on it. That ship sailed yesterday.

The question that won't let go of me is, if Dragon was blocked n1 (which was his claim) wtf has that blocker been doing the entire rest of the game? Sitting on that ability, letting town circle the drain? Pretty big gamble.

[Pavowski]

(But it might just work.)

My fear now is, they *do* have that RB, and if we misyeet Dragon today, they simply block/kill Flavor tonight, and that's the game.

We also stand in the unfortunate situation of needing 4 town to align to vote out scum here, which given the past day phase, makes me itch. It almost makes me want to vote no-lim today with Dragon JKing Flavor one last time, except there are issues with that plan, too.

I just don't know what to do here. The only thing I have to cling to is that Purple's two hammers are scummy as hell. Like Dragon, I think the scum partner told Purple to hammer in both cases (his timing on Black was pretty impeccable). Dragon's just wrong about who did the telling.

[Pavowski]

RN kill does lean towards scum in Hu Tao/Dragon, though

Really? I think RN kill is the obvious move for scum last night regardless of who it is

Why

For me, CW/RN was *almost* locktown given HPE's iso, and several other players had voiced an unwillingness to vote CW/RN if not outright saying they thought the slot was towny

If you're not going to kill Dragon or Flavor, you kill the slot that people are unlikely to vote for.

[Pavowski]

Have I mentioned I hate this game?

I swear on my rug, if Hu Tao is scum here...

VOTE: Black I hate to lim somebody who just repped in but I'm gonna sheep it, y'all can scumread me for it tomorrow. If this flips red it'll be worth it

Who's the other scum with HT, Black?

I'm not scum

I think Hu is just scum here

I'll dig deeper tomorrow

I'm town

Been there all game, Black.

I don't think it's a real read and she is purposely avoiding going into detail about it

How is this not a real read? I've explained my read over and over and over. I'm sorry you don't agree with it, but this is how I base my reads. I've not been wrong on him in any of my games.

I've explained over and over and over how it's a bad read and instead of reevaluating you're just ignoring all my points. It doesn't feel like you want to solve for Dragon. That's because you already know his alignment and are committed to the pocket attempt

Okay. Since you're new I'll level with you. Tell me why Dragon is scum here then.

I think Dragon might be town actually

You're scum though

VOTE: Hu Tao

hu tao, you town?

Yes

This is just the last few days of gameplay, but surely scum!Hu Tao is trying a little harder here, no? I mean I get that fmpov, if I accept Dragon is legit, Hu Tao has a 2/3 chance of being scum, but this is just, such a lazy effort if so

[Pavowski]

Ya know, come to think of it, (3683) a scumteam involving Dragon is the only team that's not gonna make me mad at the end of this game. If Dragon is scum here, it's a game well-played. Anybody else is just hiding, lurking, coasting. Boring.

I *guess* Hu Tao pocketing Dragon is a little less boring, but if scum her defense is just so weak sauce.

Also Dragon, purely off the topic here, but it's a bummer you and I don't seem to line up on time in the thread. I think if we could bounce it back and forth a little more rather than posting at/about each other when the other isn't around, you might have an easier time seeing I'm town here.

[Pavowski]

*sigh* I'm gonna quit spamming the thread here (what, nobody else is awake and playing mafia at 7am on a Sunday??) but I've just about circled back around to townreading Dragon and Hu Tao, leaving a scumteam of Purple/Gera.

Like .... shit. That can't be it. My brain will not accept this as the solve. This is why this game is wearing me out.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’ll think about.

Might just sheep

[Purplemango]

I just don't know what to do here. The only thing I have to cling to is that Purple's two hammers are scummy as hell. Like Dragon, I think the scum partner told Purple to hammer in both cases (his timing on Black was pretty impeccable). Dragon's just wrong about who did the telling.

This was also said in the context of HPE alone, but basically, assuming i'm scum, why do you think I need someone to tell me to hammer?
especially on two different days, and not here

[Pavowski]

I just don't know what to do here. The only thing I have to cling to is that Purple's two hammers are scummy as hell. Like Dragon, I think the scum partner told Purple to hammer in both cases (his timing on Black was pretty impeccable). Dragon's just wrong about who did the telling.

This was also said in the context of HPE alone, but basically, assuming i'm scum, why do you think I need someone to tell me to hammer?
especially on two different days, and not here

Not saying you can't hammer until someone tells you to do so, but if you're scum with HPE there would have to be a discussion in the scum thread (well, I would hope) and it's not at all a stretch that it was discussed before you hammered Black as well.

The fact you have zero non-hammer votes is an extremely weird thing that the rest of us have to contend with. And Dragon, who has a meta read on you, has confirmed that as scum, you'll bus.

[Pavowski]

I also wanna flag that, as Dragon rightly points out, it very much looks like you and I could have coordinated to hammer Black. I'm in the thread talking about "what if Purple hammers this" and then you show up to hammer.

It's extremely ballsy and out in the open (and it's not what happened), but from Dragon's POV, it's pretty convenient for a lim on town!Black, which he claims he might have tried to derail otherwise.

Like from town!Dragon's POV, on d3 he sees me say I'll hammer HPE, but you hammer instead, so I don't end up on that wagon at day's end (aka I never bussed my partner). Then on d4 he sees me take a convenience vote on Black and give you plausibly deniable permission to hammer in the main thread while also saying "yes hammer this" in the scum thread.

The postgame will sort out the scum thread but I can actually see where he's coming from here (and it's not an un-towny train of thought). Luckily I'm voting you already, and I'm still happy with that vote.

[Pavowski]

Why would you vote so quickly?

Because I want to plant a flag where I think we hit scum.

If Purple is town they need another vote before they could quickhammer him

This is the other thing. I knew Dragon was gonna try to yeet me today and I was not gonna get pre-empted and have my push on Purple be seen as opportunistic and a response to pressure. No, I thought at the end of the day yesterday that Purple was a good vote, I think it's a good vote today, and if Dragon wants to continue to cast me and Purple as the team, he's gonna have to reconcile the fact that I'm hard-bussing my partner here, when there's a good chance that a town mislim today ends the game.

Is Purple LHF here? *Maybe*, but there's a distinct possibility we're living in a game where there is *only* LHF.

[Pavowski]

In fact Dragon pushing me just about makes the case for me that Dragon is town. Flavor has leaned real hard on his vibe-read of me as town for big portions of this game, and as Flavor says, if Dragon is town, he's going to have to convince Flavor to vote me.

I don't want to overstate my standing with Flavor, but there are other players in the lobby I think it would be easier for Dragon to align with Flavor to vote out than me. (Remember that any successful wagon today without Flavor on it by definition has scum on it, and as such is obviously a mislim or calculated bus. Dragon has to align with Flavor.) It feels like Dragon is pushing me because he believes the push.

[Pavowski]

More thread spam from me. Sorry. I just have a rare day here with not much to do.

[Hu Tao]

Purple busses as scum

Having his hammer on HPE be his first vote in the game is +scum to him (though only slightly because I can see him also doing it as town). Then hammering a miselim after he never did it before probably happened because Pav told him to.

So if pav is bussing then it must mean pav is the role blocker?

[DragonEater70]

*sigh* I'm gonna quit spamming the thread here (what, nobody else is awake and playing mafia at 7am on a Sunday??) but I've just about circled back around to townreading Dragon and Hu Tao, leaving a scumteam of Purple/Gera.

Like .... shit. That can't be it. My brain will not accept this as the solve. This is why this game is wearing me out.

FML

Flavor, tell me this is not scum blatantly bussing his buddy Purple to set up a geraint mislim tomorrow.

I really want this to be town but like, it feels like such a blatant bus.

[DragonEater70]

Purple busses as scum

Having his hammer on HPE be his first vote in the game is +scum to him (though only slightly because I can see him also doing it as town). Then hammering a miselim after he never did it before probably happened because Pav told him to.

So if pav is bussing then it must mean pav is the role blocker?

Probably.

[DragonEater70]

In fact Dragon pushing me just about makes the case for me that Dragon is town. Flavor has leaned real hard on his vibe-read of me as town for big portions of this game, and as Flavor says, if Dragon is town, he's going to have to convince Flavor to vote me.

I don't want to overstate my standing with Flavor, but there are other players in the lobby I think it would be easier for Dragon to align with Flavor to vote out than me. (Remember that any successful wagon today without Flavor on it by definition has scum on it, and as such is obviously a mislim or calculated bus. Dragon has to align with Flavor.) It feels like Dragon is pushing me because he believes the push.

That is indeed a good case for town me

I am going to log off for a time period between 2 and 24 hours, and when I am back I will

hopefully

feel fresh enough to re-read you objectively.

[DragonEater70]

Btw it's nice that there are only 6 possible scumteams now (pav/purple, pav/hu, pav/gera, purple/hu, purple/gera, hu/gera). This means solving for scum teams might actually be viable.

And if all of you (except Flavor) assume I am town (I am), then from your viewpoints there are only 3 possible scum teams so it makes it even easier to case the correct one. If any of you can do that before I come back I'll be very proud of you.

[geraintm]

Day 1

Spoiler:

1.1

DragonEater70 (1)

- geraintm

Flavor Leaf (1)

- Pavowski

Hu Tao (1)

-

Thomith

Not Voting (10)

-

Abnegation

,

cw357

, DragonEater70,

Flavor Leaf

,

HighPrincessErinys

, Hu Tao,

Laplacian

,

Gamma Emerald

, Purplemango,

ssbm_Kyouko

1.2

Flavor Leaf (3)

- Pavowski,

Flavor Leaf

,

cw357

Pavowski (2) -

Thomith

,

Laplacian

Abnegation (1)

-

Abnegation

DragonEater70 (1)

- geraintm

Laplacian (1)

-

ssbm_Kyouko

Not Voting (5)

- DragonEater70,

HighPrincessErinys

, Hu Tao,

Gamma Emerald

, Purplemango

1.3

Laplacian (4)

-

ssbm_kyouko

,

Abnegation

, Pavowski,

HighPrincessErinys

Flavor Leaf (2)

-

Flavor Leaf

,

cw357

Abnegation (1)

-

Laplacian

cw357

(1)

-

Gamma Emerald

DragonEater70 (1)

- geraintm

HighPrincessErinys

(1)

- DragonEater70

Not Voting (3)

- Hu Tao, Purplemango,

Thomith

1.4

Laplacian (5)

-

ssbm_kyouko

,

Abnegation

, Pavowski,

HighPrincessErinys

, geraintm

HighPrincessErinys

(3)

- Hu Tao,

Flavor Leaf

, DragonEater70

Flavor Leaf (1)

-

cw357

Abnegation (1)

-

Laplacian

cw357

(1)

-

Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (2)

- Purplemango,

Thomith

1.5

Laplacian (5)

-

ssbm_kyouko

,

Abnegation

, Pavowski,

HighPrincessErinys

, geraintm

Abnegation (2)

- DragonEater70,

Flavor Leaf

Gamma Emerald

(2)

-

cw357

, Hu Tao

cw357 (1)

-

Gamma Emerald

HighPrincessErinys

(1)

-

Laplacian

Not Voting (2)

- Purplemango,

Thomith

1.6

Laplacian (7)

-

ssbm_kyouko

,

Abnegation

, Pavowski,

HighPrincessErinys

, geraintm, DragonEater70,

Flavor Leaf

Gamma Emerald

(2)

-

cw357

, Hu Tao

cw357 (1)

-

Gamma Emerald

HighPrincessErinys

(1)

-

Laplacian

Not Voting (2)

- Purplemango,

Thomith

Day 2

Spoiler:

2.1

cw357

(2)

-

Flavor Leaf

,

HighPrincessErinys

Flavor Leaf

(1)

-

cw357

geraintm (1)

-

Gamma Emerald

Gamma Emerald

(1)

- Hu Tao

Pavowski (1)

- DragonEater70

Not Voting (4)

- geraintm, Pavowski, Purplemango,

ssbm_Kyouko

2.2

cw357

(4) - DragonEater70,

cw357

,

HighPrincessErinys

, Hu Tao
geraintm (1) -

Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (5) -

Flavor Leaf

, geraintm, Pavowski[, Purplemango,

ssbm_Kyouko

2.3

cw357

(3) -

cw357

,

HighPrincessErinys

, Hu Tao
geraintm (1) -

Gamma Emerald

Pavowski (1) -

ssbm_Kyouko

ssbm_Kyouko

(2) -

Flavor Leaf

, DragonEater70

Not Voting (4) - geraintm, Pavowski, Purplemango

2.4

cw357 (1) - cw357

geraintm (1) -

Gamma Emerald

Pavowski (1) -

ssbm_Kyouko

ssbm_Kyouko

(4) -

Flavor Leaf

, DragonEater70,

HighPrincessErinys

, Pavowski

Not Voting (3) - geraintm, Purplemango, Hu Tao

2.5

cw357 (1) - cw357

geraintm (1) -

Gamma Emerald

Pavowski (1) -

ssbm_Kyouko

ssbm_Kyouko (3) -

Flavor Leaf

,

HighPrincessErinys

, Pavowski

Not Voting (4) - geraintm, Purplemango, Hu Tao, DragonEater70

2.6

cw357 (1) - cw357

ssbm_Kyouko

(4) -

Flavor Leaf,

HighPrincessErinys

, Pavowski, Hu Tao

HighPrincessErinys

(1) -

ssbm_Kyouko

Not Voting (4) - geraintm, Purplemango, DragonEater70,

Gamma Emerald

2.7

ssbm_Kyouko

(4) -

Flavor Leaf

,

HighPrincessErinys

, Hu Tao,

cw357

HighPrincessErinys

(1) -

ssbm_Kyouko

cw357 (1) - Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (4) - geraintm, Purplemango, DragonEater70, Pavowski

2.8

ssbm_Kyouko

(4) -

Flavor Leaf

, HighPrincessErinys, Hu Tao,

cw357

HighPrincessErinys

(1) -

ssbm_Kyouko

Gamma Emerald

(1) - DragonEater70

Not Voting (4) - geraintm, Purplemango, Pavowski,

Gamma Emerald

2.9

ssbm_Kyouko

(5) -

Flavor Leaf

,

HighPrincessErinys

, Hu Tao, Pavowski,

cw357

Gamma Emerald (2) - DragonEater70,

ssbm_Kyouko

Not Voting (3) - geraintm, Purplemango,

Gamma Emerald

2.10

ssbm_Kyouko

(6) -

Flavor Leaf

,

HighPrincessErinys

, Pavowski, Hu Tao,

cw357, Gamma Emerald

Gamma Emerald

(2) - DragonEater70,

ssbm_Kyouko

Not Voting (3) - geraintm, Purplemango

Day 3

Spoiler:

3.1

DragonEater70 (1) -

Flavor Leaf

geraintm (1) -

HighPrincessErinys

HighPrincessErinys

(1) - DragonEater70

Not Voting (6) -

cw357, Gamma Emerald

, geraintm, Hu Tao, Pavowski, Purplemango

3.2

cw357

(1) - Pavowski
DragonEater70 (1) -

Flavor Leaf

geraintm (1) -

HighPrincessErinys

HighPrincessErinys

(1) -

DragonEater70

Pavowski (1) -

Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (4) -

cw357

, geraintm, Hu Tao, Purplemango

3.3

HighPrincessErinys

(5) - DragonEater70, Hu Tao,

Gamma Emerald

,

Flavor Leaf

, Purplemango

cw357

(1) - Pavowski
geraintm (1) -

HighPrincessErinys

Not Voting (2) -

cw357

, geraintm

Day 4

Spoiler:

4.2

Pavowski (2) -

Gamma Emerald

, DragonEater70
DragonEater70 (1) -

Flavor Leaf

geraintm (1) - Hu Tao

Not Voting (4) -

cw357

, geraintm, Pavowski, Purplemango

4.3

Pavowski (2) - DragonEater70, Flavor Leaf
DragonEater70 (2) -

Gamma Emerald, cw357

geraintm (1) - Hu Tao

Not Voting (3) - geraintm, Pavowski, Purplemango

4.4

DragonEater70 (2) -

cw357, Flavor Leaf

Pavowski (2) - DragonEater70, Hu Tao
Hu Tao (1) - geraintm
Purplemango (1) - geraintm

Not Voting (2) - Pavowski, Purplemango

4.5

Hu Tao (2) -

Gamma Emerald, Flavor Leaf

cw357

(1) - DragonEater70
DragonEater70 (1) -

cw357

Pavowski (1) - Hu Tao
Purplemango (1) - geraintm

Not Voting (2) - Pavowski, Purplemango

4.6

Hu Tao (2) -

Gamma Emerald

, Pavowski
Purplemango (2) - geraintm,

Flavor Leaf

cw357

(1) - DragonEater70
DragonEater70 (1) -

cw357

Pavowski (1) - Hu Tao

Not Voting (1) - Purplemango

4.7

DragonEater70 (2) -

cw357, Flavor Leaf

Pavowski (2) - Hu Tao, DragonEater70
Hu Tao (1) - Pavowski
Purplemango (1) - geraintm

Not Voting (2) -

Gamma Emerald

, Purplemango

4.8

Hu Tao (4) - Pavowski,

Gamma Emerald, Flavor Leaf, Random Nurse

Pavowski (2) - Hu Tao, DragonEater70
Purplemango (1) - geraintm

Not Voting (1) - Purplemango

4.9

Pavowski (3) - Hu Tao, DragonEater70, geraintm
Hu Tao (2) -

Gamma Emerald, Random Nurse

Not Voting (3) - Flavor Leaf, Pavowski, Purplemango

4.10

Pavowski (3) - Hu Tao, DragonEater70, geraintm
Hu Tao (3) -

Gamma Emerald, Random Nurse, Flavor Leaf

Not Voting (2) - Pavowski, Purplemango

4.11

Pavowski (3) - Hu Tao, DragonEater70, geraintm
Hu Tao (2) -

Gamma Emerald, Random Nurse

geraintm (1) -

Flavor Leaf

Not Voting (2) - Pavowski, Purplemango

4.12

Pavowski (2) - DragonEater70, geraintm

Black

(2) - Hu Tao,

Flavor Leaf

DragonEater70 (1) -

Black

Hu Tao (1) -

Random Nurse

Purplemango (1) - Pavowski

Not Voting (1) - Purplemango

4.13

Black

(3) - Hu Tao,

Flavor Leaf

, DragonEater70
Hu Tao (2) -

Random Nurse, Black

Purplemango (2) - Pavowski, geraintm

Not Voting (1) - Purplemango

4.14

Black

(3) - Hu Tao,

Flavor Leaf

, DragonEater70
Hu Tao (2) -

Random Nurse, Black

Purplemango (2) - Pavowski, geraintm

Not Voting (1) - Purplemango

4.15

Black (5) - Hu Tao,

Flavor Leaf

, DragonEater70, Pavowski, Purplemango
Hu Tao (2) -

Random Nurse, Black

Purplemango (1) - geraintm

Not Voting (0)

For me to be scum, it would require me on day 3 to not get involved at all in any counter wagons to my partner and letting them go down without a fight. This is so not my scum game. I didn't even try and get some town cred by joining their wagon.

[geraintm]

I am happy with Voting in thr pav/Purple pair