Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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And who is "our"? Am I the only one here who doesn't know what Team Liquid is?-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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This game is, TBH, not good for my mental health.
If you want me to change my mind, be diplomatic about it.
If you don't like something I've said, do everything in your power not to be such a jerk about it. I 5000% prefer that you just say something like "this is incorrect for reasons X Y and Z" instead of "What?!?! LOL what the hell yo!"
All I'm asking is that youACT LIKE A GODDAMN ADULT.
If that is too much for you to handle, I'm going to stop talking to you. There are enough reasonable people in this game, who I trust, that I expect this to be no issue at all in how I approach and hopefully solve this game.
If you are upset that this is my plan, I don't care. If you want to tell me you think this is bad, FUCK OFF. If I run out of people I trust or my reads change, I'll re-evaluate accordingly. But I am just fucking done having conversations with people who can't just be decent.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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For real if the scum team turns out to be Dunnstral / Dannflor / Naerys, I won't know what to do with myself lol.
Yall remember when I said I suck at this game? There you go.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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If it is Dunnstral / Dannflor / Luca, my mind is going to fucking explode.
If the more dominant voices in this town are to be trusted / believed, then there are 3 scum amongst the pool of Dunnstral / Dannflor / Luca / Naerys. Seeing who has the ability to control the conversation and who does not, I doubt that any less popular theories gain any traction until we learn that we didn't capture the entire scum team in that pool of 4.
I've got ways to sort that out but until there's a good reason to suspect otherwise, it doesn't seem like any of us are going to do ourselves any favors entertaining any other theories at the moment.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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UNVOTE:-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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Dunnstral, just to make sure, you're aware that you are at -1 and that people are expecting a role claim here?
If you're really avoiding the issue then I'm inclined to hammer here.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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In post 2380, Dunnstral wrote:
When did they say this?In post 2362, Vivax wrote: Even if gob is a troll town, him voting Dunnstral and being familiar with him is a plus. And I think it's a serious vote.
Oh okay, the second half of this quote is Vivax's vote, and pointing out that Dunnstral is -1 and bringing up that a role claim might be good here. So Dunnstral is for sure aware.....-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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FWIW, Dann and Luca both said they'd be fine with a Dunn vote prior to reaching hammer territory, so that certainly makes a Dunnstral / Dannflor / Luca team less likely. And Naerys is frankly a lazy target and easy pickins for scum, so that feels off to me. Maybe I'm not as dumb as I think.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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I feel like if he was town, he would have claimed, period.
Even if his role sucks, what can he do about that? Claiming anything else as town has got to be a terrible idea, like if he did claim a power role, someone else may speak up and out themselves, and then Dunn dies anyway. Kinda just have to accept that the gods of mafia fucked you over if you're vanilla town in this instance.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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I already ruled that out. He quoted the post from Vivax that did exactly that; he just erased the portion of it saying that he was at -1.In post 2389, Hu Tao wrote: Maybe he didn't see he was e-1 just wait.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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I'm good with a hammer at any point. Nothing else I want to talk about today.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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I have nothing to add, other than to say your sensitivity to Dunn's suspicion makes more sense now since you're a power role lol-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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The suspense is killing me lol-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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In post 2428, Grackaroni wrote:
Same lol. I did a quick sweep through her ISO to try to see who she may have wanted to check.In post 2424, SuperfluousNinja wrote: The suspense is killing me lol
My bet from her posts is Oats, but that'd make me bad for copying OutofOrder/DP's read on him.
Well at this rate, that will be tomorrow's problem lol.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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Well Grack, if you feel bad about your reads, realize that I had a vote on / suspected a power town for a large chunk of day 1, I leaned scum on a vanilla townie, and I had a strong scum read on the player who now appears to be a town investigator.
To say that my reads have been a bit off this game is a massive understatement lol.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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That's great, but like, why would we yeet anyone other than whoever Hu Tao mentions today?
Obviously we need to know if they are lying, and if they are, we yeet Hu Tao next, which I'm sure Hu Tao is well aware of, thus they wouldn't just make this up.
I see no reason to doubt Hu Tao here and don't plan on focusing on anyone other than whoever they bring up today.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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This is like that experiment with the kids where they are promised two marshmallows instead of one if they just wait 10 minutes for them.
(I am calling myself the kid in this scenario)-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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Watch it be another 24 hours before Luca shows up.
This is driving me fucking crazy! I honestly don't understand the point of waiting for everyone to chime in anyway.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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In post 2488, Oatsmaster wrote: But yes I don’t think hu Tao should reveal
I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to here. Reveal their information, or reveal their role?
They have already revealed themselves as a power town, so why wouldn't they just go ahead and reveal what they know at that point?-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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Well I've put off my errands long enough and Luca seems content to sleep with the fishes or whatever he's off doing so I'm out for the time being.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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In post 2494, DarthPunk wrote:
There are reasons to not reveal. We shouldn't talk about them till later tho.In post 2492, SuperfluousNinja wrote:In post 2488, Oatsmaster wrote: But yes I don’t think hu Tao should reveal
I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to here. Reveal their information, or reveal their role?
They have already revealed themselves as a power town, so why wouldn't they just go ahead and reveal what they know at that point?
Well I'm gonna have to remember to ask you what those are in post-processing. Maybe I am just too much of a noob at this game but I feel like I've searched every corner of my brain and can't come up with a good reason why waiting on this reveal in this particular circumstance is helping anything.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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In post 2502, outoforder wrote: Well Ninja is at least just waiting. Unsure what that means.
Really?
You should know EXACTLY what that means.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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Luca is here now, can you do whatever it is you plan on doing?In post 2470, Hu Tao wrote: I think that leaves luca-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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In post 2613, Luca Blight wrote:In post 2612, outoforder wrote:
What makes you feel this way?In post 2609, Luca Blight wrote: Well, I've decided this game isn't particularly enjoyable for me and I'm probably going to play like Gob from here out, so fill your boots.
Is it because people think you're mafia (if you're town it shouldn't), or something else?
The fact that half the players are from a different site who are basically ganging up and shouting down everyone else, especially Darth Punk and Oats, you to a lesser extent, Grack and Vivax the least, but they also are more inclined to side the same way.
I think Darth Punk could well be scum, but am I going to waste my time trying to push for him elimination when there is no chance of it being successful in this climate? Hopefully Hu Tao has a guilty on him, as that might change how I feel a little bit.
Going out now.
Yep. 100% in agreement with this sentiment.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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I'm actually kinda surprised someone said it out loud, it's pretty much been on my mind for a while now but I thought I was the only one who felt that way lol.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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I'll leave it to you and Vivax to have another 500 pages of back-and-forth to convince you why that's clearly incorrect.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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In post 2630, Hu Tao wrote: imo OoO is town with the way he acted during this whole thing. I also think ninja is pretty obvious town too.
Okay...this REALLY confuses me. Because OOO's reaction to this and mine could not possibly be more different.
Mine was, great, you've got a lead, let's see where it takes us, the end. Some other people tried pushing me for stuff, and I was largely just like, nah, I don't really see the need.
OOO did one of the biggest songs and dances I've ever seen in this place. What about this? What about that? Ninja, can we get a reads list? Vivax, what do you think about this? Luca, let's have it out with more bullshit! Hey Vivax, what do you think about this and that and the other thing? How many more words can I insert here to try and stir up as much shit as I possibly can and hopefully distract everyone from what is going on here?
I admit to being a little slow at the start, but I figured it out eventually: the main reason you wanted to wait was to see who would do everything in their power to try and distract from it, who would throw up more smoke and mirrors, who would do anything other than just "cool, let's hear what you have to say". I thought there was a chance that you made the claim up, but I did figure out that that's why you were waiting.
Because, let's be real: if you really were outing yourself as some investigative role who found scum, either as a cop or a watcher who saw who visited Roden or some such thing, there's NO reason to not just focus entirely on what you have to say. There's little reason to keep on speculating, to keep on having these discussions, when you (allegedly) have the ability to narrow down the target list which would probably put a lot of theories to bed and would obviously make at least some, if not a lot, of what was said between your initial announcement and your reveal completely pointless.
If you lied about it, we'd yeet the person you said was guilty and find out they are scum, and we'd just yeet you tomorrow. If you fake-claimed as an investigative role and bussed your teammate to look legit, the actual investigative role would see a red flag and immediately check you, and you'd once again be hosed but now with 1 fewer teammate also, so that makes it an even DUMBER play. So the only logical conclusion here was that you were telling the truth.
I think scum were aware of this on some level but were hoping that I wouldn't go through all of this and say it all, but at this point I would be highly suspicious of anyone who tried to insert a whole bunch of pretty much anything between your initial announcement and what you said just now.
So I guess that's actually why I'm a bit confused why you think both OOO and myself reacted "well" or whatever word you choose here. Why do you say that, Hu Tao?-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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Frankly, scum, you are total morons for choosing ME as your target right now. Are you not following how bad my reads are? How I keep on telling you how bad I am at this game? Why would you not want me at the end of the game and keep me on the final day when I can keep my idiotic streak going? You are totally blowing it here lol. Pretty much everyone here is a lot better at this than I am and you are completely fucking yourselves over by removing me from the game. You want to keep the people with thousands and thousands of posts on this site instead and think they'll be easier to play in end game? lol the hell are you thinking here...-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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In post 2655, outoforder wrote: Are you really scumreading Hu Toa for this? Like really fucking really????
You really, really need to stop being so fucking intolerant of people coming to a different conclusion from you.
And this will be the last time I talk to you, unless you apologize and shape the fuck up. I'm going to switch gears now and explain why it is that your personality and your attitude are making this game so difficult for me, probably for Luca also.
When you take this kind of attitude towards people like this, they don't want to talk to you. You're being toxic. You're making me upset. You're real-life stressing me out with how incredibly toxic you are towards me, like I am constantly afraid of saying anything in this game, trying to give a read, without you just completely fucking blowing up in my face over it.
You and your buddies here seem to have some connection with each other that I'm not a part of, and pretty much all of you seem totally satisfied with just beating me up as much as you can. I can't make a counterpoint to Darth without him making some snide comment about how he thinks I'm trying to one-up him. I can't theorize about Vivax without him telling me he's literally laughing out loud at me and how dumb I am. And Oats is just champing at the bit to shit all over anyone. I hate talking to any of you. I fucking HATE it. I can't stress that enough. It is a horrible experience talking to fucking any of you about anything.
I'm asking you to stop and to treat me like a fucking human being, and I will NOT ask again. I'm really fucking sick of this shit. Dial it the fuck down. Now.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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Here's where I am right now.
TOWN
Luca
Darth
Oats
Gob
Dannflor
Hu Tao
NULL
OOO
Vivax
Naerys
Grack
I'm not confident in any scum reads at this point. So far my track record on my scumspicions has been totally wrong so I think I'm going to try this the other way, where I find people to put in the town bucket and solve by process of elimination.
I am genuinely worried that scum have taken control of the conversation and that those of us who are getting shouted down with excessive punctuation and belligerent rhetoric are falling victim to it. If you want, I could probably find dozens and dozens of examples of people using hostile tone here and explain in detail how people would react to stuff like that. In essence, you'll expect them to become meek, to lose their composure, to make mistakes.
For the life of me, I cannot conceive of any reason why any townie who is interested in winning this game would speak to each other. But I understand perfectly why scum would find it so advantageous to use harsh rhetoric, to belittle people, to emotionally influence people into shutting the hell up, because they know the facts aren't on their side and so this is what they have to resort to.
Please, everybody, let's agree to knock off the hostility. If you really, truly, honestly believe that you've seen no hostility here and just do not understand what could be interpreted as such, go ahead and tell me so and I'll go through and demonstrate to you how it could be happening. It has happened a little bit amongst probably half of you but there's one here who has just gone completely overboard with it. Let's all agree we are going to be respectful to each other and NOT tear each other to shreds like scum wants us to, and let's agree to call out this shit if we see people being rude, there's no fucking reason for it and it is driving people away from this game.
In short, let's bring a swift end to this shitty tactic OOO is trying to use on us and RESTORE order.
VOTE: OutOfOrder-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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*like thatFor the life of me, I cannot conceive of any reason why any townie who is interested in winning this game would speak to each other.
Add that to the end lol. Don't worry, I DO know why townies want to speak to each other lol.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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I'm also going to bed, see you all in several hours.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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In post 2779, Luca Blight wrote: I agree that there is at least one or two of the tl players in the scum team, but outoforder seems the one who is genuinely trying to solve the game, whereas Oats comes across as incredibly insincere and Darth Punk's actions and statements don't align, which shows he doesn't actually believe what he is saying, as well as the fact his supposed confidence is based on such poor reasoning, when he is supposed to be a good player as town. Oats is like the annoying sidekick, always there to back up his buddy. This is more likely where the scum lies, in my opinion.
The biggest thing I need to hear right now is why OOO is being so belligerent and seemingly oblivious to the fact that he IS being oblivious.
Like look at how he overreacted to me simply asking Hu Tao to explain his actions. I didn't say he was scum; I just asked him to explain. This was met by OOO with "really, fucking really???"
And then like 1 hour later he comes to the same realization as me, realizes it's worth digging into, and votes Hu Tao.
THAT is not genuine. And to me it's the clearest sign yet that he isn't actually trying to make logical arguments to me; he just wants to intimidate me and get me to shut up. Why else would he write such belligerent words towards me about wanting to press Hu Tao and then just decide to do it himself later? Clearly he's up to something.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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*final word should have been belligerentThe biggest thing I need to hear right now is why OOO is being so belligerent and seemingly oblivious to the fact that he IS being oblivious.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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Okay one more thing and then I'm going to bed for real lol.
Luca, you say OOO has been "genuinely trying to solve the game." But like... He's pushing YOU. And he has BEEN pushing you for all of D2 so far and it seems like a good portion of D1 also. So shouldn't that tell you he's NOT genuinely trying to solve it? His top scumspect is me, and you are claiming I'm one of your strongest town reads! So like, I am confused how or why you think he's trying to solve it if his reads are so wrong (allegedly, of course).-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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I can't sleep lol.
But I do have an example. You were trying to get on Luca's case for voting Roden, citing the fact that Luca had voted for someone "who was injured". But Luca had clearly cast that vote BEFORE Roden's injury. You can look at the time of his vote and the time of Roden posting that he was injured and see for yourself that this was true.
Nevertheless, you still stuck to your guns that Luca had voted for an inactive person, even though it was clearly demonstrated to you (by both Luca and myself) that his vote happened before, not after, the injury. Unless Luca has the ability to tell the future, you cannot possibly argue that he cast that vote with any knowledge that Roden would be inactive.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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I almost forgot the homework assignment I pursued over the night phase. I documented the vote wagon on Dunnstral to see if anything interesting came up. The full history of votes on Dunnstral on Day 1:
Grack - 1st vote on Dunnstral (pg 29)
Darth - 2nd (pg 29)
Hu Tao - 3rd (pg 35)
Oats - 4th (pg 36)
Dannflor - 5th (pg 36)
Then OOO yells at Oats and Dannflor, and Dannflor immediately switches off Dunnstral and votes Roden
Then Darth unvotes (pg 37), followed by Oats (pg 38), followed by Hu Tao (pg 39)In post 893, outoforder wrote: That's absolutely very fucking stupid, both of you!!!
Only Grack is voting Dunnstral at this point
Much later, Grack switches to Gob (pg 62), 0 votes on Dunnstral
On Wednesday, a new Dunnstral vote begins:
Gob - 1st (pg 79)
Vivax - 2nd (pg 79)
Then Vivax switches his vote to Roden (pg 80) which puts Roden at -1
Only Gob on Dunnstral
Voting continues some pages later:
Luca - 2nd (pg 92)
OOO - 3rd (pg 93)
Then OOO hops off Dunnstral to vote Hu Tao, then Darth immediately votes Hu Tao, then OOO immediately puts his vote right back on Dunnstral (pg 94)
Darth - 4th (pg 95), after light encouragement from Oats to vote Dunnstral
Oats - 5th (pg 95)
Vivax - 6th (pg 95) which puts Dunnstral at -1
Dannflor - 7th (pg 97), hammer vote-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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Some interesting things I noted:
- Vivax pushed the vote to -1 twice and helped to reveal two town alignments. The pushing of Roden to -1 seems very opportunistic, look at this...here was vote #5 on Roden:
Then, 4 posts later, Dannflor makes a point of saying this:
Then the very next post is this:In post 1975, Dannflor wrote: roden is at e-2 right now by my count
So yes, you could absolutely argue that that vote switch from Dunnstral to Roden is opportunistic, IMO. I am suspicious of Vivax because of it.
Otherwise, look at just how fast that Dunnstral wagon grew at the end there. The final wagon started on page 92, then it grew into a really serious one on page 95, and the day was over on page 97. I don't think it's crazy to think that the final vote on Dunnstral includes at least one scum, if not two, if not all three... That group is Gob / Luca / OOO / Darth / Oats / Vivax / Dannflor.
Oats definitely sticks out to me also, for piggybacking off of Hu Tao on the very first wagon to cast the 4th vote and not backing off until Dannflor and Darth had backed off, then encouraging Darth to cast the 4th vote on the final wagon and casting the 5th vote himself. Votes that are 1st, 2nd, 3rd, IMO they are a bit less likely to be opportunistic and more coming from an actual read on a person. Votes that are 4th, 5th, 6th, they can easily be interpreted as scum joining a wagon. So yeah I think there's good reason to be suspicious of Oats as a result of this analysis.
The fact that Darth caved so easily is something I haven't made sense of either, but I am still leaning more town on Darth on the moment so I am letting that one go for now.
OOO yelling at Oats and Dannflor is jarring to me and reads almost like he knows something that a lot of us do not. And to be clear, that's obviously not any town power information, since it is day one. Although this was much later in the game, it's notable that after such a forceful statement, he cast the third vote on Dunnstral on the final wagon.
If anyone has any other stuff they glean from this, please add it.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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I started with a bullet point and then forgot I was doing bullet points. oops lol-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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In post 2796, Luca Blight wrote: Here is an example of Oats' pedantry, since he asked for it:
In post 1643, Oatsmaster wrote:
Like this is not real, how is the dann case/push foiled when the only other person here is hard pushing dann mafia?think you might be scum based on your recent posting, which doesn't seem genuine and feels very much like you're just lashing out at me because I foiled your case.
Like I completely don’t understand how you can say this with a straight face being 100% serious
He snips a piece of my post and overly-focuses on the word 'foiled' to entirely dismiss my point out of hand. Even if oats was the only other one there at that moment, and he sides with Darth (which he always does regardless), it does not invalidate the point I was making.
If you have more examples, I would love to see them.
I do feel like something is off about Oats and I'm now leaning scum on Oats I think. It's also jarring to me that he started the game showing himself as a very blunt and aggressive player, but then he has so many other posts where he has thoroughly sterilized his wording, and it seems like the sarcastic jerk persona he had before is totally gone. I haven't made sense of it.-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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In post 2795, DarthPunk wrote: Can anyone explain to me why ht trying to out a counterclaim is something a townie would do?
That’s the second super scummy thing she has done this game , it’s crazy to me how she is just written off as town.
I'm definitely not writing her off as town, and you can count me amongst the ones scratching my head over Hu Tao.
I have an easier time seeing the towniness of the second gambit (the "I have investigative info, U guyz!" gambit) than I do seeing the towniness of the first gambit (the "I am playing like shit on purpose!" gambit). Hu Tao will just tell you, they did this to gauge reactions from people to detect scummy behavior, and that is a townie thing to do. It's just that the first gambit in particular REALLY sounds like an attempt to cover their tracks. Like what are some things a scum might say if they are caught in the act of not contributing well to the game? I think it's clear that "oh, well, I was just playing like shit on purpose to see who wasn't noticing it and then I'd think those people are scummy" is pretty high on that list of excuses you could quickly drum up to try and talk yourself out of the hole. That's why I referred to it as a "dog-ate-my-homework" style of excuse, because it is VERY much like that.
It also just doesn't seem like Hu Tao learned anything interesting from this either. Like I don't think Hu Tao learned ANYTHING from the first gambit at all, which was, if true, a much more concerted and risky maneuver to actually pretend to be scum, so for little, if anything, to have come from that is...odd. And I still think her read on what happened in response to the second gambit makes NO sense at all, they say they read both OOO and myself town because of our reactions to it, and if you plotted our reactions on a plot that scaled from "did almost nothing" to "did as much as humanly possible", OOO and I would be on COMPLETELY different ends of that spectrum, so it REALLY confuses me that both of these reactions could be viewed as "townie".-
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One last point of discussion on the second Hu Tao gambit: I genuinely believed, and still believe, that anyone who reacted to Hu Tao's day 2 gambit with a bunch of doubt and an onslaught of other leads and other topics of information is suspicious. There was no reason in that moment to think that Hu Tao was either lying or pulling something they'd be able to get away with. I went for a walk outside and gave it a real thorough think, trying to come up with any way whatsoever where Hu Tao could do what they did and come out ahead as a scummy player, and I came up empty. If they had faked a claim on a townie, the yeet would turn up as a townie, and we'd yeet Hu Tao the next day. And if they bussed a scummate, for one we're still yeeting a scum, and two, since the fake investigator claim IS fake, the REAL investigator would for sure raise their eyebrows (having their own private knowledge that there likely aren't TWO town cops) and check Hu Tao, and then they'd be toast (and minus a teammate, too). I am one of the dumber players lol and I was able to figure this out, so I trust pretty much everyone else to realize all of this also. Thus, if anyone at the time was trying to cast doubt on whether this info was useful or wanted to change the subject, that's going to strike me as highly suspicious.
Gonna reread that period now and see if I dig up anything interesting...-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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What are your reasons for voting Luca?-
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SuperfluousNinja She/herMafia ScumShe/her
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So you are saying that Luca is guilty for keeping the focus on whoever Hu Tao said was guilty? Here's everything Luca had to say about the gambit:
In post 2597, Luca Blight wrote: Why are people voting me when Hu Tao said she has a guilty on someone?
I'm going to be busy most of today so won't be around much.In post 2599, Luca Blight wrote:In post 2598, outoforder wrote: Who should we vote for then?
The person who is supposedly guilty.In post 2604, Luca Blight wrote: You can play normally without necessarily voting, but whatever floats your boat I guess.In post 2609, Luca Blight wrote: Well, I've decided this game isn't particularly enjoyable for me and I'm probably going to play like Gob from here out, so fill your boots.In post 2613, Luca Blight wrote:In post 2612, outoforder wrote:
What makes you feel this way?In post 2609, Luca Blight wrote: Well, I've decided this game isn't particularly enjoyable for me and I'm probably going to play like Gob from here out, so fill your boots.
Is it because people think you're mafia (if you're town it shouldn't), or something else?
The fact that half the players are from a different site who are basically ganging up and shouting down everyone else, especially Darth Punk and Oats, you to a lesser extent, Grack and Vivax the least, but they also are more inclined to side the same way.
I think Darth Punk could well be scum, but am I going to waste my time trying to push for him elimination when there is no chance of it being successful in this climate? Hopefully Hu Tao has a guilty on him, as that might change how I feel a little bit.
Going out now.
As I said in my last post, this right here is the exact kind of reaction I expect from town. Why do you think this is NOT how a townie would react?-
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In post 2814, Naerys wrote: Hmm i am kinda thinking about the nightkills. Either scum got really lucky or there is person with good analytical mind
makes me kinda sus Dann tbh
The only interesting info you gleaned from all of the voting history on Dunnflor is to hop on the person who hammered?-
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Dunnflor, holy shit lol. I finally did it.-
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In post 2795, DarthPunk wrote: Can anyone explain to me why ht trying to out a counterclaim is something a townie would do?
That’s the second super scummy thing she has done this game , it’s crazy to me how she is just written off as town.
Another thought I had was that this second gambit was made because Hu Tao thought "I have to pull another gambit to make it seem like I am the kind of player who pulls gambits in this game, which will lend credibility to my first gambit and make it seem less weird".
But I might be getting into deep WIFOM territory on that one.-
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In post 2793, SuperfluousNinja wrote: I can't sleep lol.
But I do have an example. You were trying to get on Luca's case for voting Roden, citing the fact that Luca had voted for someone "who was injured". But Luca had clearly cast that vote BEFORE Roden's injury. You can look at the time of his vote and the time of Roden posting that he was injured and see for yourself that this was true.
Nevertheless, you still stuck to your guns that Luca had voted for an inactive person, even though it was clearly demonstrated to you (by both Luca and myself) that his vote happened before, not after, the injury. Unless Luca has the ability to tell the future, you cannot possibly argue that he cast that vote with any knowledge that Roden would be inactive.
Oats asked for examples and I wrote this 6 minutes later. I can't help but think he definitely saw it and chose not to explain it.-
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Fair enough, I think my vote needs to be here right now.
VOTE: Oatsmaster-
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My sus list is otherwise:
Naerys, for extremely underwhelming contributions and what I feel are illogical arguments. This angle on Luca's reaction to Hu Tao's gambit makes 0 sense.
Vivax, for the opportunistic voting yesterday, and the tremendous difficulty I've had really all game long in grokking anything he has said.
OutOfOrder, for using what I think are very clear oppression tactics that only scum would be interested in.
I also lean a little scum on Hu Tao at the moment, but right now my scum reads are strongest on Oats and the 3 I mentioned above.
My town pool at the moment isLuca / Darth / Dannflor / Grack / Gob.-
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In post 2447, Oatsmaster wrote:
Really depends on their claimIn post 2443, SuperfluousNinja wrote: That's great, but like, why would we yeet anyone other than whoever Hu Tao mentions today?
I'd really like to see an explanation for this one. What is the dependency where we don't take Hu Tao seriously? What scenario is that?-
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In post 2829, Hu Tao wrote:
I've noticed that as soon as Darth spouted suspicion on me, you vivax and ooo also did the same. You just had me as town and you're now overthinking to find a way I could be scum here.In post 2822, SuperfluousNinja wrote: My sus list is otherwise:
Naerys, for extremely underwhelming contributions and what I feel are illogical arguments. This angle on Luca's reaction to Hu Tao's gambit makes 0 sense.
Vivax, for the opportunistic voting yesterday, and the tremendous difficulty I've had really all game long in grokking anything he has said.
OutOfOrder, for using what I think are very clear oppression tactics that only scum would be interested in.
I also lean a little scum on Hu Tao at the moment, but right now my scum reads are strongest on Oats and the 3 I mentioned above.
My town pool at the moment isLuca / Darth / Dannflor / Grack / Gob.
That's not entirely accurate. I did say this right after you revealed your actual intentions, which I asked well before Darth spouted that recent suspicion:
And I'm definitely not trying to "find a way you could be scum"; I would actually love to move you out of null territory which is effectively where I have you right now.In post 2651, SuperfluousNinja wrote: ....
So I guess that's actually why I'm a bit confused why you think both OOO and myself reacted "well" or whatever word you choose here. Why do you say that, Hu Tao?
Also, think about what you're saying there about me teaming up with either Vivax or OOO. I just put them down as scum in my most recent post and gave my reasons for it.-
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In post 2838, Naerys wrote:no, i must have missed that
i dont keep up with that mass of posts you people are producing
This information is in the very first post.-
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In post 2840, Naerys wrote:
what?In post 2839, SuperfluousNinja wrote:In post 2838, Naerys wrote:no, i must have missed that
i dont keep up with that mass of posts you people are producing
This information is in the very first post.
The very first post tells you the alignment of everyone who is dead. You'll see Roden there, marked as Jailkeeper.
You say you're thinking about the night kills, yes? So you're thinking about this after we would have gotten our chance to see Roden's alignment, not to mention that Roden had claimed being jailkeeper during day 1 also. But if you were really interested in putting some thought into the nightkills and wondering how and why they happened like they did, why wouldn't one of the very first things you do, if not THE first thing, be to check the role of the person who died?-
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In post 2842, Oatsmaster wrote: It’s illegal to try to be nicer now?
Oats, I would really think hard about these kinds of responses you are giving me (and Luca).
If you're town, what is this accomplishing? Why wouldn't you have just said "I am indeed trying to be nicer; I realized I was being too confrontational before and that wasn't helping, so I am making more of an active effort to be nice now."
I obviously didn't say it was "illegal". I'm just saying it struck me as odd. You are strawmanning what I am saying and discussing in bad faith when you do stuff like this.
Like, for real, what are you hoping I get out of reading these words you wrote? Do you not think I'd get the least bit frustrated by you strawmanning my point? Do you think that using a tone of antagonism is helpful? Because I personally feel like it should be incredibly obvious that it isn't.
If you think I'm town, you shouldn't be wanting to antagonize me. And if you think I'm scum, you have to be able to make better arguments than strawmen like these. The angle of "Ninja is scum because she is arguing that a law was passed that makes it a crime to be nice, and I know that no such law was passed, so she's clearly lying." Once you really drill down into what you are saying, that is the argument you are making. Do you see now how incredibly absurd it is?-
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In post 2843, Naerys wrote:
You are confusing me. I knew that Roden flipped jk i just didnt know he claimed it.In post 2841, SuperfluousNinja wrote: You say you're thinking about the night kills, yes? So you're thinking about this after we would have gotten our chance to see Roden's alignment, not to mention that Roden had claimed being jailkeeper during day 1 also. But if you were really interested in putting some thought into the nightkills and wondering how and why they happened like they did, why wouldn't one of the very first things you do, if not THE first thing, be to check the role of the person who died?
I see, I was maybe misunderstanding things. So when you're looking into how scum "got lucky", you're wondering how they got lucky killing the JAILKEEPER specifically. I thought you might have meant that they got lucky getting a kill, period.-
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In post 2827, Luca Blight wrote:In post 2812, Naerys wrote:
Bad reaction to Hu Tao´s experiment. Got overly defensive imoIn post 2811, SuperfluousNinja wrote: What are your reasons for voting Luca?
Yeah, this makes no sense.
I was being voted by multiple people while we were seemingly waiting for a guilty result, so i questioned the sudden votes on me.
How can that in any way be interpreted as being overly defensive to the 'experiment'?
This, btw, is a great point that needs to be addressed. What does it have to do with the gambit / experiment itself?-
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In post 2848, Oatsmaster wrote: Not sure where you are getting that I’m calling you mafia?
Read what I wrote more carefully. The point of everything I said there was to say, no matter what my alignment is, your actions here are bad. THAT is what I am saying.
Also not sure why I cannot be annoyed with what you write but you are allowed to be annoyed with what other people write
There's a difference between simply being annoyed with what someone writes and actually manifesting that annoyance into a troublesome relationship with someone. I am plenty annoyed with you, like 110%, but I am still actively working to smooth things out with you. Whereas you are annoyed and just trying to antagonize. That's the difference.
I'm expending a lot of energy trying to manage your personality here that I should be redirecting towards the game. But if I don't do this, it's going to continue being a problem for the duration of this game. It's entirely possible that you are indeed town but just have an abrasive personality and don't seem to have the ability to have good faith conversations with people. The problem is, it's also possible you're doing this as scum to piss people off, spoil conversations, make people turn against each other, create an awful environment for solving the game. So it's really important that we work through this here.-
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In post 2858, Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah you are literally scumreading me for changing how I’m typing.
I'm scumreading you for how contentious you are being with everything. I think it's a scum tactic to do that.
Not sure why I have to read more carefully. Maybe you should type more carefully if that’s not what you mean.
Only way to settle that one is to see if others are able to read it and parse out what I meant.
I invite everyone in this thread to read this and see if you think any part of it could be interpreted as me being concerned that Oats thinks I am scum:
In post 2845, SuperfluousNinja wrote: Oats, I would really think hard about these kinds of responses you are giving me (and Luca).
If you're town, what is this accomplishing? Why wouldn't you have just said "I am indeed trying to be nicer; I realized I was being too confrontational before and that wasn't helping, so I am making more of an active effort to be nice now."
I obviously didn't say it was "illegal". I'm just saying it struck me as odd. You are strawmanning what I am saying and discussing in bad faith when you do stuff like this.
Like, for real, what are you hoping I get out of reading these words you wrote? Do you not think I'd get the least bit frustrated by you strawmanning my point? Do you think that using a tone of antagonism is helpful? Because I personally feel like it should be incredibly obvious that it isn't.
If you think I'm town, you shouldn't be wanting to antagonize me. And if you think I'm scum, you have to be able to make better arguments than strawmen like these. The angle of "Ninja is scum because she is arguing that a law was passed that makes it a crime to be nice, and I know that no such law was passed, so she's clearly lying." Once you really drill down into what you are saying, that is the argument you are making. Do you see now how incredibly absurd it is?
Personally I don't see what part of this could be construed as me having any concern whatsoever over Oats reading me as mafia. If you're able to identify what it is, please tell me.
If nobody can do this, then Oats, your "maybe you should type more carefully" comment clearly doesn't stand.
I’m also not sure how my illegal to be nice comment is”manifesting the relationship into a troublesome relationship”.
Because I never said it was ILLEGAL for people to suddenly become nice. You've already twisted the wording from "illegal to try to be nicer" into "illegal to be nice", which is, again, bad faith. You went out of your way to portray things incorrectly and you are making no effort at all to try and smooth things over with me. I want us to move to a more diplomatic place. Do you?
Do you understand how it is hurtful to town to discuss in bad faith, to be contentious for no reason? Do you understand why teamwork will help us?-
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In post 2860, Oatsmaster wrote:
How is this consistent with thisI'm expending a lot of energy trying to manage your personality here that I should be redirecting towards the game. But if I don't do this, it's going to continue being a problem for the duration of this game.
I do feel like something is off about Oats and I'm now leaning scum on Oats I think. It's also jarring to me that he started the game showing himself as a very blunt and aggressive player, but then he has so many other posts where he has thoroughly sterilized his wording, and it seems like the sarcastic jerk persona he had before is totally gone. I haven't made sense of it.
The connection here is that I have indeed identified something being off with the way you are acting, and thus I am expending this energy to figure out whether this is just the way you are or if you're doing this to add chaos to town.-
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