Open 885: Backup6 [Game Over]

[Aureal]

dayvig: iamveryhappy

[Aureal]

Had to get that in first before he got me!

dayvig: iamveryhappy

whoa the timing on this O_O

Hi five!

[Aureal]

Sure, I think yeet is a great choice.

[Aureal]

No! How else am I supposed to pocket you!

[Aureal]

Setup is actually linked at the end of the ruleset.

Alright, now that we've got things sorted, let's yeet some scum! VOTE: CCGeek

[Aureal]

okay then

VOTE: Black

You misspelled CCGeek.

[Aureal]

okay then

VOTE: Black

You misspelled CCGeek.

who

The Mafia. The cement-shoe provider club. The sneaky mustache twirlers. The shadows in the shadows.

[Aureal]

CCGeek, how can you find T3's aggression possibly 'faux' but also agree with the point he made?

Oh right because you're scum.

The dayvig was a reference to a random newbie game I tuhink 2123

FOLLOW HIM! CORNER HIM! MURDER HIM!
BEAT HIM DOWN! BEAT HIM UP!
SEND HIM TO HIS GRAVE!



(How do I get this song out of my head, someone please help)

[Aureal]

Can I get everyone to give me their mafia experience/background/record?

Let’s put it like this:

Estimated completed games:
Have you had victories in a mafia team?:
Favourite alignment:

If a first game just declare yourself a n00b

Help! Information fishing! You don't get to steal my identity so easily!

[Aureal]

VOTE: black

Hi, other Mafia person! Done strategizing in your scum PT and ready to pay attention to us now?

[Aureal]

Can I get everyone to give me their mafia experience/background/record?

Let’s put it like this:

Estimated completed games:
Have you had victories in a mafia team?:
Favourite alignment:

If a first game just declare yourself a n00b

Help! Information fishing! You don't get to steal my identity so easily!

Aurreal is scum.

And also has the single most annoying username for phone posting

Keeps autocorrecting to surreal. Screw it, you are surreal now unless I’m casting a vote.

Awesome! Black, remind me to make sure to include Surreal as part of the team name next time.

[Aureal]

Not unless you had a different account. I see you signed up in the middle of my long hiatus from playing Mafia.

[Aureal]

Who are you, to make such a wild accusation!?!?

[Aureal]

Estimated completed games:
Have you had victories in a mafia team?:
Favourite alignment:

Estimated completed games: 25? 30? Probably a few hundred on EpicMafia and mafia.gg.
Have you had victories in a mafia team?: My winrate as scum is 45% or so.
Favorite alignment: Scum. Fakeclaiming is my favorite part of the game!

Pfffft, you don't have to be scum to fakeclaim. It's even more fun the other way!

Probably.

I never get to fakeclaim as scum. _._

That’s a good win rate for a role that is sometimes out of your own hands. Get the wrong team around you and it’s like cycling up a mountain.

What an odd perspective. How is town's success more in their own hands? I'd say it's the other way around, and not just because I have a 100% win rate as Mafia.

[Aureal]

Whatever happened to the fine art of the TL;DR?

:sigh:

TL; DR: Black is locktown

[Aureal]

If you're actually town and try very hard to win, you should try going to read some towngames of Black's.

Like maybe this one or this one.

[Aureal]

aureal what do you think i should look for specifically in black's town game that is different from her scum game

[Aureal]

I have an idea guys. How about we pretend the last 10 pages never happened and this is page 1? -_-

[Aureal]

I have an idea guys. How about we pretend the last 10 pages never happened and this is page 1? -_-

i feel like it has been mostly civil. i'm sorry if this isn't enjoyable for you

i should probably just step away for the night

I'm glad you're not feeling too distressed by it then, but I would still like to try to yeet scum. I don't feel like this is very likely to accomplish that. Generic seems to be pretty ego-driven, with his fixation on "oooh hoo, I'm gonna catch the one who hasn't been caught!"

The same applies somewhat to all of you who are still dogging Black despite having been clearly warned that this is a regular pattern. It's tempting when dealing with someone who has a strong scum reputation to snatch at any little something that feels weird, I know. You don't wanna be a chump getting fooled. But you've gotta understand that being town does not make someone a logic computer. Black is very open as town and shares her thoughts, even if they're not well formed yet, asks questions that may not end up really have much purpose, shamelessly trying to solve the game rather than look good. This player archetype is apparently pretty hard for some people to figure out, but until I see Black roll scum and mimick it, I'm gonna call her town when I see this sort of thing.

[Aureal]

I'm glad you're not feeling too distressed by it then, but I would still like to try to yeet scum. I don't feel like this is very likely to accomplish that. Generic seems to be pretty ego-driven, with his fixation on "oooh hoo, I'm gonna catch the one who hasn't been caught!"

What are your thoughts on players not named Generic and Black?

Still happy with my vote on CCGeek.

Really exasperated with Dunn's vote on you. Like, he opens with acknowledgement that your posting style has you use words expressing uncertainty a lot, then is concerned because you used a question mark on something that wasn't a question. Then the very next sentence is also an acknowledgement that he doesn't think you're a confident player. COME ON MAN Then he basically just goes "this is a good point" a couple times and calls something a false dilemma and scum indicative. I'm not even sure what he's referring to there because it's replying to Dannflor and trying to read Dannflor's wallposting about you is just MAKING MY EYES ROLL OUT OF MY HEAD with how ridiculously he's acting with all the "town Black should've thought about things better" crap.

Why isn't happy doing anything? Weird. If scum has been off your wagon I would guess him over Snivy.

[Aureal]

Okay, iam, why aren't you doing anything?

[Aureal]

Well that's definitely a trade up.

I hate the idea that we're obligated to yeet Black now because of claim stuff when we're like a freaking quarter of the way into the deadline and she was the only major wagon. Great way to score a miselimination and no information there.

And no Black, I couldn't even remember who the other person who had voted you was when I was writing that post. So no read on T3 right now. Really not up to poking and prodding at that stuff right now to try for one, sorry.

[Aureal]

black was at e-2? she's probably town for that lol.
haven't read anything except skimmed the most recent page, will do later.

snerk

[Aureal]

Oh it's a kitty. I guess I can give her a chance to do something with the slot. VOTE: Dannflor

Why do you think I'm town? I wouldn't say I'm playing much like our previous game.

ok i have a question for everyone here

when you roll scum, on average, how guilty is your conscience

I think I'd have to be able to roll scum more than once within memory to have an 'average'. But yeah, to belabor the point, it was more 'cunning glee' than 'guilt' for the most part. Which I now try to attain as town with ridiculous sneaky plans when opportunities arise.

[Aureal]

is it weird that like no one in the game jumped in to call generic vs. Black TvT

*raises eyebrow*

What do you think I was doing?

Though I suppose he could just have been the brand of troll who doesn't actually care about the game, not quite as confident about that read as I was at the time.

[Aureal]

i am mostly caught up btw, just didn't bother with another post like the ones i was doing.

So... Just curious... Is there someone you wanna vote, or are you cool leaving it where the previous slot holder did?

it isn't a meta read, i think your posts this game are towny

i think 279 in particular comes from scum a very small amount of the time. i think the point about what dunn and dann are doing is like... good and insightful and vibed a lot with how i was feeling as i read the thread. i generally like the sarcasm, both in that post in 172 - it feels consistent and genuine to me, and i think the intuitive approach as scum is to be more polite to dannflor since you really couldn't give an expletive about anything he's saying about black and that's just helpful in case you need him later.

Well crap, I'm supposed to plan out who to be nice to?! Can't I just get him yeeted so I don't have to be nice?!?

i think in the scumgame abnegation linked for iavh he also feels... a bit flat, especially towards the end

however reading his recent games i found this game where iavh is town and super flat and stale (sorry) and multiple people comment on it.

so i think maybe his playstyle has just shifted more generally? i still don't love his posts but whatever

I just glanced through his ISO there but it seemed more in line with my previous experience with him than this game has been. I would say he's very... Demanding. Which isn't happening here.

Where is your head at with regards to this game dunnstral

iamveryhappy has really empty posts where they don't put forth a lot or comment on things. Their 427 does not make sense. I am not seeing a reason to not vote for them, so i will do so.

VOTE: iamveryhappy

You are so wooden that I think you're probably town.

[Aureal]

Where is your head at with regards to this game dunnstral

iamveryhappy has really empty posts where they don't put forth a lot or comment on things. Their 427 does not make sense. I am not seeing a reason to not vote for them, so i will do so.

VOTE: iamveryhappy

You are so wooden that I think you're probably town.

i get "too scummy to be scum" logic in some cases, but i'm not seeing how it applies here. isn't wooden-ness when someone is having difficulty posting in a way that looks natural? not something someone would intentionally avoid doing as scum. why do you think it's town-indicative here?

I may be overstating it with 'probably' but he was coming off like that in Scarfolk too, where he was town. I don't remember ever getting pinged like that reading his play in Team Mafia, where was was scum (and I was scumreading him most of that game). I'm also kinda agreeing with Black's analysis that his vote on her was rather more tortured in how it came across than seems likely for scum.

this is the first time i remember someone has been trying to convince me that i shouldn't townread them

i don't think being sarcastic or rude towards dannflor is particularly helpful regardless of your goals as mafia - it probably makes you less likely to successfully eliminate him

Huh. I didn't think that was quite what I was trying to convey but maybe I am more uncomfortable with townreads than a lot of people because I don't get them that often and they've often been strategically motivated. Like you might do if you're scum here and wanting to get me to feel better about your slot.

I found your reasoning kind of odd and this is still odd. It feels like you're making very broad brush statements which maybe could be applicable in certain situations but I certainly wouldn't agree are categorically true. I'm certainly not nearly as experienced at this as you are but I feel pretty confident that scum can and do use sarcasm and rudeness and it can be quite effective. A townie might well glaze over a wallpost then read someone snarkily dismissing it and go "oh apparently that wallpost sucked anyway, guess I don't need to bother paying attention to it".

[Aureal]

I am going to assume Black is town

I think the game state through my Black tunnel makes more sense that way and I just don’t have as much belief in my read reading back through as I did before

Plus both Aureal and meowmeow have told me Black is very town and they can’t both be scum with Black

Why did it take multiple people arguing against your scumread to convince you?

[Aureal]

well, tbh I thought there was a possibility you and Black were S/S. I also don't know you or your relationship with Black and have no basis to decide whether your read on her is actually quality or if you're just town reading her because you like her

it also helps that I know and respect meowmeow's reads and I think that slot is probably town

Odd. That's very much not the impression I got from 310. What were you thinking there?

[Aureal]

Yeah I'm not following that progression either. You voted T3

after

he argued against Black. Then decided that even though he'd pinged you with a scummy townclear of Generic, his argument against Black was just so great it made him town? It feels to me more like you saw that he was actually getting traction with that argument and decided to jump on it and maybe end the day quickly with a big push. I think that makes you two pretty unlikely to be scum together, at the least.

[Aureal]

pretty sure that comes from mafia who wants to claim a pr before he dies not an actual pr

Yeah I don't see any reason to think 'Mafia' over 'actual pr' or 'person concerned that the other wagon could still be a pr'

Aureal what is your read on T3? iirc you didn't have a read on him last I checked

Why is Dann your #1 fade choice here?

I went through the game again and didn't see anything that really pinged me. He seems to occupy a pretty solidly reasonable position. Could he be scum, sure. I don't have any reason to particularly suspect him at this point so I'm fine worrying about that later.

[Aureal]

This logic is so weird that I almost wonder if Dannflor is tunnled town

at risk of being tunneled town this sentence feels performative

Well. That I can actually kinda see. But I largely agreed with your point. I dunno about "most often" but I do agree there's certainly a nice niche in the 'inoffensive and reasonable' read for scum to occupy. I expect it depends on the person whether that's the sort of place they'd likely end up. Maybe T3 doesn't agree with that idea though?

[Aureal]

And by do it, they mean after declaring intent and allowing for a claim.

[Aureal]

like i think a lot of the time thunderdoming / being abrasive / not making any apparent allies can be town indicative

but for a certain category of player it is not

I do think this is pretty true. Played in another game with a player who got banned during it and that person seemed to take the same not giving a shit abrasive attitude in all their games, regardless of alignment.

UNVOTE: Dannflor

Might not be a bad idea to think about some things more.

[Aureal]

Aureal unvoting at the same time as me is probably a good sign.

I assume you mean for your reads, because that 16 minute gap doesn't do anything for me.

Also lol, good thing you remembered not to use a question mark there

[Aureal]

pretty sure that comes from mafia who wants to claim a pr before he dies not an actual pr

how about let’s intent t3 if you think I’m town now and t3 is in your meh pile and you have no other scum reads

is there a world where dann is mafia and noticed what he thought was pr softing and told me to declare intent so he could get confirmation?

why on earth would this be my plan over just night killing T3

That was truly spoken like someone who can't roll Mafia.

[Aureal]

I think Aureal missing my question twice is probably town indicative XD

I think scum!Aureal pays way more attention to the thread and my slot in particular and doesn't miss my questions or ignore me

cry

It's not that I missed it... I just got sidetracked responding to other things because well, I sorta feel like I've expressed a good bit of my suspicions of Dann through my interaction with him and the wagon so I kinda thought what I was doing was answering. I didn't explicitly state my initial reasoning for calling him and CCGeek scum (their slowness to start posting in the thread despite having confirmed) but I think I touched on a fair bit of other stuff. And by the time you brought it up again I was having more doubts so explaining a scumread that's trending down just wasn't a priority.

Also I disagree with this read of what I would do. ._.

[Aureal]

Dann has a good point regarding Generic and thunderdomes and I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned it. I think the effort Dann put into researching Generic's scum games from other sites is town indicative. If he were scum then I don't understand why he would go through all that effort just to not push there

I think Abnegation was fairly townie when she entered the game. Townier than Generic for sure. I'm not really sure I'm getting scummy vibes here. I agree with her that activity level isn't alignment indicative for her

@Dann can you elaborate on your Abnegation scumread?

Logically, the meta evidence presented by Dannflor only supports the conclusion that Generic would do that as scum, refuting the idea that he's town for it. It would be hard to conclude that the slot actually is scum for doing it because that would require evidence that he wouldn't also do it as town.

[Aureal]

Is it really that hard to look at the last page? XD

Someone said you were too carefree to be scum and now you're just running with it huh

I feel like that comment didn't come from someone who's played with Snivy before. He's actually been giving me more serious vibes than usual. It's making me think more of his play in Weird Dreams where he was 3p scum. In contrast, iamveryhappy seems to have just jumped off a cliff in terms of caring which gives me more limbait vibes.

VOTE: camelCasedSnivy

[Aureal]

I dunno, I kinda think of this as peak Snivy though XD

[Aureal]

wait im thinking of newd3 for some reason

What

What does this mean? How is NewD3 relevant here?

lol i was just wondering if you were intentionally trying to dumb slip or something

Yeah that's uh, kinda what I'm feeling too.

i want to go back to tunnelling black

Why?

[Aureal]

What

It's not like you're playing in one right now or something

Are you gonna make me go look at all your newbie games to see if that's a role distribution you played? Because I will.

[Aureal]

Wow, you only played three newbie games and one of them was two years ago. None of them were doc/cop setups. So I don't know why you would associate that setup with those roles.

Guess I'm back to VOTE: camelCasedSnivy then

[Aureal]

But again, if you were thinking this was NewD3, I don't see any reason you would decide that means there must be a cop. I'd have to go look at the chart to figure what all roles there could be. Cop with doc is just one, and I know there's also a doc with a tracker possibility off the top of my head because I played a game in that configuration.

Like, this whole page makes no sense. We already had T3's claim and discussed which roles might be in play here as a result of that info. And here you are, going "I didn't see the flip" appropos of nothing so you can apparently segue into thinking something about the setup that you have no particular reason to think? It feels really artificial, like you came in with a plan to try to 'townslip' since I expressed suspicion of you last and I've townread you for a townslip about the setup before.

[Aureal]

...I'm not a believer in OMGUS necessarily being scummy, but that one sure was.

[Aureal]

lol

u first

[Aureal]

because your reasoning sucks ass?

Oh, well, there's an unbiased and well-defined opinion.

like the newd3 thing is the only thing that i couldve faked and i tried to disregard the point but you want to drag it as if you WANT to vote me

your turn

Bwuh? If we're talking about things you could've faked we can definitely include the claim that Ircher added the flip into the opening post after you looked at it. It took you scarcely two minutes to post after that so I'm kinda confused about how this timeline works. You look at the post, there's supposedly no flip in it and you... what? Start writing a post then refresh the page partway through to see if something has changed, see the flip, delete what you wrote and decide to comment on the confusion you had anyway but without actually specifying why?

And is there supposed to be something wrong with wanting to vote you? Voting people is how the game works. We try to vote out people on the other team. You are my primary suspect for someone on the other team right now. This shouldn't be surprising.

my theories should be taken with a grain of salt but i wonder if 805 might have actually been a rolefish.

Oh, yeah, that's likely part of why it's rubbing me the wrong way.

[Aureal]

meowmeow and abnegation are just blind

at least for abnegation, shes defending aureal by saying she "trusts in her ability to roll town"

That doesn't seem to actually answer Dann's question. You seem to be answering "why don't other people suspect Aureal" rather than "why do you suspect Aureal for saying the same thing that other people are also saying?"

[Aureal]

Do people think Abnegation's posting here was scummy, surface-level or otherwise? I don't get it. I can't say she's not in my poe but nothing here pinged me.

[Aureal]

ofc I wouldn't want to fade T3
I caught onto that soft and by the time I was available to hammer the CW I can't tell between Dann and Dunn I'm dumm kek
great I love being a wagoned

also why would I hammer when I know I'm basically kingmade in that situation, we could easily squeeze a few days of discussion in there
@Dunn I don't like ur logic

This kinda just feels like a bad excuse not to hammer Dannflor

You think scum iamveryhappy would be so hesitant to hammer town Dannflor?

[Aureal]

i think snivy's read on happy is, like, pretty anti associative? like the feeling i get from it is mostly just 'oh hey snivy is scum and knows happy is town' - idk if that's tunneled but it is what it is. if snivy is scum, it's definitely not an intuitive move to go to bat for happy for like no reason

Intuitive or not, he did do it as 3p scum in Weird Dreams.

maybe i should think happy is town if i don't think he's scum with dannflor or snivy. shrug.

Thought experiment I've been mulling over: if happy is town, that means both Mafia were on the Dunnstral elimination. Why would they both get on that?

[Aureal]

...Ircher? He was in that game, I guess. I was thinking of his defense of WhemeStar. Although looking back at his ISO now, it's not as defense-like as I remembered. He certainly was awkward though.

[Aureal]

to be clear my point was specifically that i don't think snivy behaves like that as scum with exactly happy

as scum with anyone else it doesn't apply

OK, I guess we're all confused because it seemed like you were talking about a world where iamveryhappy is town. So whatever, then.

Did anyone have any thoughts on my thought experiment?

maybe i should think happy is town if i don't think he's scum with dannflor or snivy. shrug.

Thought experiment I've been mulling over: if happy is town, that means both Mafia were on the Dunnstral elimination. Why would they both get on that?

Or am I the only one who tries to think about gamestate like this?

[Aureal]

Or am I the only one who tries to think about gamestate like this?

I don't think I put enough brainpower into the game to think of it this way

But you post so much more than I do.

BTW can you elaborate on why you think Snivy is town? He's really kinda frustrating me right now with his like, total disregard for explaining most anything about his pov.

[Aureal]

do you think there's a benefit to scum!me in hammering the wagon myself instead of allowing t3 to do it?

Nah, the hammer itself didn't ping me as much as the reasoning behind it. Or lack thereof really. It felt like you jumped from Dann to T3 to Dunn and it didn't really seem like you cared which of the 3 were faded. I guess I would expect town!you to differentiate between the 3 and determine which is the scummiest instead of just going with the flow and wherever the wagons led you

Also, I do feel like while this isn't great in a vacuum, this attitude is possibly town indicative for Alianna at this point. I just finished a game with her and she wasn't seeming terribly motivated there either. Whereas I feel like if she got a Mafia role she'd be more likely to go "yeah!!! Curse is over!!!" and put in more effort.

[Aureal]

Oh no, Snivy set Alianna up for a page top, clearly they're working together!

I don't even know what to think about Snivy's supposed suspicion of me now, it's so obviously off base that maaaaybe it isn't that likely to be scum. "One thing on the second day" really??

I really don't know where else to look though, Abnegation and iamveryhappy give me more mixed signals and I just kinda want to townbin the rest of you.

[Aureal]

Was... that comment directed at me? I don't know that 'ironic' is a strong enough word to describe it if so.

[Aureal]

Alright, iamveryhappy shall henceforth be referred to as Alanis.

[Aureal]

i think the only way that aureal dies is if i die here so that kinda sucks for me

dann why did you vote me and revoke it anyway

Why do you think Aureal/Dann is the solve?

if aureal is town then she decided to make a read off of one thing on the second day which is a terrible move in my opinion

dann not only was in my iamveryhappy/dunn/dann poe but he is kinda just sitting on the sidelines and NOW is pretending to not be confident on me

Wait, what poe? You've been maintaining a townread on Alanis even as you said there was one scum in that group. If you're still so confident in all that, why start the day like you did, with confusion and then coming after me?

[Aureal]

Oh lol, he did vote Dannflor first. I didn't really even make note of it since he didn't actually say anything about him there.

Meh

VOTE: Abnegation

[Aureal]

Just because Snivy suggested some names doesn't mean anyone has to go along with it. There are in fact other players in the game!

[Aureal]

aureal what made you switch from snivy to abnegation

I looked back at some early stuff from Generic and really just don't like it now that we've established that he'll do the thunderdome thing as scum. He makes a lot of 'sarcastic' comments saying that he's a wolf. Kinda feels like something that kind of trolly person is more likely to do when they actually are, just openly wave it around as a "joke" ha ha. Also there was 22 where he says "I don't get yeeted day one" which seems maybe a setup to claim a PR, but he goes on to claim VT.

Also I realized Alianna's lack of engagement in the last game might also have been because she was a PR and trying to be more low key.

Can you elaborate on this read? Wasn't she in your PoE?

day 1 i might've voted her but i have a better poe today

You do not.

[Aureal]

So who do people think Snivy would be partnered with if he's scum?

[Aureal]

think this is an okay vote.

VOTE: aureal

Cool scum attempt to pivot with a replacement incoming. I give it a 7/10 on the scum scale

[Aureal]

No, he's helping me with first.

[Aureal]

Banter aside though, I asked about who might be a Snivy partner because I feel like Abnegation is notably the most likely. There's been what seems to be fairly real attempts by Dann and meow to push Snivy (and vice versa for him trying to push Dann) so they don't seem likely. Black would be the only other one that seems even close to as likely a prospect and I still maintain my townread on her so still, not likely. And meow covered why Snivy and Freedom's slot would be an odd team, though I don't quite have the same level of confidence there that she does.

[Aureal]

for me it's between ccs/abnegation and my waffling has been about who between those two i think makes more sense teamed with someone else or just individually seems more likely to flip red

my confidence isn't high enough on abnegation that if you feel significantly better about ccs flipping red then I'm happy to follow you there

I

feel significantly better about Abnegation flipping Mafia.

I mean, the reason she decided to come after me was weird enough in the context of just this game. She took the same attitude towards Black being town because of all the suspicion on her that she's now criticizing me over. It's even more weird when I consider this interaction from our previous game.

[Aureal]

What... does that even mean?

[Aureal]

abnegation/aureal/freedom yall wanna help we have 1 day

Wow, is this an attempt to get voted by being obnoxious, Mr. Doesn't Care To Answer Questions or Explain Anything About His Reads?

i actually explained in 1101 that it was not the read but the way you pushed it that was bothering me.

Your

first thought

upon looking at just the game's vote count was "oh Black is town because she's getting scumread" and you can't see how I would be incredulous that people are just going full-speed ahead on their Black scumreads even after being warned that that's a pattern? Yeah, no, not buying it at all.

[Aureal]

I'm psychic. That's why my vote is staying on Abnegation.

If you guys want further motivation to consolidate on Abnegation, consider that there's basically no chance of accidentally outing the other PR this way. Unless she wants to claim that Generic was lying.

[Aureal]

If we take your theory that Mafia aren't likely to be sarcastic, I think this post is pretty towny of Dannflor. (Well I think it's pretty towny even without that theory, because it's totally the same reaction I was having to Snivy there.)

hi omgussing im dannflor

are you enjoying this game?

Also, I'm sorta feeling that 843 is actually kind of anti-associative between Snivy and Abnegation, because Abnegation goes on to back off of that statement in 932, calling it a joke. It seems pretty genuinely a reaction to criticism, not so much how partners would likely engage with each other. I think its defensiveness makes Abnegation look worse here.

Her reactions aren't coming off too authentic to me in several places such as this. To name another one, back when she suggested that maybe Dannflor saw T3 softing doc and he pointed out that if he was Mafia there's not much reason to run T3 up rather than just night kill. When I saw Dann's post my reaction was like "oh right, lol" because I also have issues getting non-town roles so I'm not used to thinking about how I can just get rid of players at night. But even as I was posting to that effect, Abnegation responded like she still believed it might be a possibly valid theory. Now, I

can

see some slight reason for Mafia to still want to make someone they think is a PR claim it openly, but she didn't make any argument to that effect.

[Aureal]

I think an Abnegation scum flip basically guarantees Black is town, and is likewise pretty clearing for Dannflor with the way he researched Generic's previous games on the other site to rebut the thunderdome being towny thing. I'm wary of how meowmeow has approached the push on Abnegation if she flips Mafia, it seems fairly reasonably partnered in how she's been like "yeah I don't really like some things but I'd still rather vote Snivy" and 971 in particular pings me as possibly looking for someone else's reasoning to latch onto to help defend a more vulnerable partner.

[Aureal]

Hmm. If a replacement showed up and was like "no way, that first guy was lying when he claimed VT" would you believe it?

[Aureal]

I think an Abnegation scum flip basically guarantees Black is town, and is likewise pretty clearing for Dannflor with the way he researched Generic's previous games on the other site to rebut the thunderdome being towny thing. I'm wary of how meowmeow has approached the push on Abnegation if she flips Mafia, it seems fairly reasonably partnered in how she's been like "yeah I don't really like some things but I'd still rather vote Snivy" and 971 in particular pings me as possibly looking for someone else's reasoning to latch onto to help defend a more vulnerable partner.

I think I'd agree with this.

Question: how much of the game have you read?

[Aureal]

gg you two, can't say I never had any doubts but that was well played. I guess the Black flowchart gets retired now.

5-0 as scum now

Suck it, Generic

this makes me happy i lost lol.

tbh i genuinely don't think sidetracked is a common term and my explanation for why i thought aureal might be the tracker was true

I wouldn't crumb like that. If I'm gonna crumb a role, it's going to be for good reason and something pretty indisputable, like what T3 did. Crumbing tracker never really even occurred to me, those song lyrics aside (which was mostly because I was once again referencing the last game with iamveryhappy where he was the tracker). I've never been run up and forced to claim (with one exception but that was an anticipated part of my strategy that game) so needing to prove I'm the real PR isn't really something I expect. Also I've never rolled a PR in an open setup like this either. And here I thought I'd be able to survive better than most since I'm never a nightkill target.

[Aureal]

since I'm never a nightkill target

This may have been my idea

Sorry about that bestie

Note to future players: if I get nightkilled, Black did it. She's the only one who does this.