Open 822: Popcorn Mafia - Game Over!!

[Hectic]

Hello friends

[Hectic]

Could everyone give 3 or 4 players they think are scum, and why?

I'm suspicious of players who have voiced minimal or few scumreads, despite the fact there are FOUR scumazzers out and about from a town player's perspective. Players that fall under this category include T3, marcistar, Toogeloo, and probably others

It's probably pretty difficult for scum to voice many scumreads here, given they either have to choose in the limited pool of townies, or give scumreads on their buds

[Hectic]

Is that toog read based on meta, Art? Which posts?

He's voiced exactly 1 townread and 0 scumreads this game so far. He doesn't seem to care much about the popcorn vender having the right information to shoot scum, not interested in expressing who he thinks they should shoot etc

[Hectic]

Actually I think NM being chosen clears Enchant.

marci's normal play gets her scumread but using a ~secret~ meta tell it should become apparent if she is scum pretty fast.

Luke is a strong town player but it should become readily apparent if he's scum so I would hold off on shooting him.

Hockey seems to have good intent. Hard to explain, kind of just vibes.

T3's play this game has been really flashy and weird.

231/232/242 all express townreads on marci given T3's experience and meta with her, but once opinion of her steadily decreased in the thread, she's "lean-scum" in 299. Unsure whether that's scum capitalising on a townie's stocks going down, or some last ditch distancing.

The people you want to hipfire are presumably people you SR, so whats the point of hiding this info from town

I don't want those people to alter their play just yet.

I think Toog is towny for the secretiveness around the reads. He seems to be quietely solving on his own.

This read made me wanna draw some art of a trash can

Newbies being all over the place and having complex thoughts like that is very strongly town indicative.

^Also, lol @ T3 treating Hockey like he's a toddler. I wanna say he's TMIing Hockey-town

[Hectic]

Hello friends

I will miss the pictograms but welcome some more concrete thoughts from this slot :)

There is a time and place for them!

I have too many thoughts this game for pictograms, would have to be churning them out at 20 a day

[Hectic]

Lukewarm likely town for:

-Being aware Not_Mafia actually has good reads, yet picking him to be the gun bearer nonetheless. Picking the snorlax for first gun bearer is actually a pretty bad strat, since he's a very viable misshot down the line. His power comes from having good reads, not being able to look town. So, I think scum probably assumed his reads would match the power level of his general content (bad)

-289 isn't a perfect

gourmet

townslip, but it's more likely to be real than faked

-The marci meta susread was very good

[Hectic]

That should say:

-If scum, he'd have to be aware that Not_Mafia actually has good reads, yet pick him to be the gun bearer nonetheless.

Ergo I don't think scum!Luke gives him the gun

[Hectic]

There I think I've done everybody, this is usually the point where people start scumreading me pretty hard.

Your T3-not-used-to-him-being-towny thoughts and lines like make me want to lean town on you

[Hectic]

Anyways, it feel like marci is the best shot here.

181 expressed liking Art and their point about Luke. It implies liking the point means some kind of agreement with it, in most cases

However, when Luke calls her out on it, she backpedals in 188, saying she only liked Art

having

the thought, and she's not sure if she agrees with it, which is a little more convoluted, and possibly her changing her stance since she knows Luke would see through agreeing with it

Since then, she's almost seemed a little afraid to express many reads/thoughts. The only one being in 321 where she says she's scumreading Enchant but doesn't elaborate

I don't think Luke is scum with marci for their interactions, and I don't think Hockey is scum with marci for 204/216/226. So, if correct, it'd be a very valuable flip

But we have tiiiimeee, so marci, if you're not scum, give us a power star; talk about your reads etc

[Hectic]

Yeah, can I get a tldr of a tldr pls Lukewarm

[Hectic]

Most likely. I'm going to take the full day and shoot based on votes, as if it were a launch.

This doesn't change your stance there, Toog?

[Hectic]

In a way, I kind of see it almost tactically beneficial to sign up for this game as an alt if you might possibly be perceived as a threat as town from scum in order to avoid being chosen for the first gun.

PEdit:

This doesn't change your stance there, Toog?

Nope. Galron can say that as an attempt to see where slots vote and still shoot elsewhere. It's just as easily a gambit for them. I don't intend on voting at all. With as many scum as there are in the game, it's foolish to trust votes.

How do you plan on making yourself look town then, in order to avoid being shot?

[Hectic]

I saw it earlier and went "huh, that's weird" but thought Marci was townier than her other scum games.

T3/Marci makes sense at least if Luke is town but it's hard to get over how slimy he felt early on to me.

T3's reads this game have felt very deliberate and showy, that's one of them

I'm not sure if town!T3 has big enough of an ego that he'd imply his read on marci is more important than the rest of the game's?

[Hectic]

I want to be shot.

What happens if Galron mishoots and 1 more mishot loses town the game? What do you do then?

[Hectic]

I saw it earlier and went "huh, that's weird" but thought Marci was townier than her other scum games.

T3/Marci makes sense at least if Luke is town but it's hard to get over how slimy he felt early on to me.

T3's reads this game have felt very deliberate and showy, that's one of them

I'm not sure if town!T3 has big enough of an ego that he'd imply his read on marci is more important than the rest of the game's?

...I do think town!T3 would have that big of an ego but I also don't think he's town here anyways.

But yeah, he's been all flash and no substance all game.

Is that what that one Vulture with a hat/crown image was about? I couldn't make out that one.

I think you'll find the that was a detective's hat and a towny crown, and yeah, it was investigating into Hockey's mind, and about T3's posts

[Hectic]

I hate the fact that I want to say Toogeloo is town for choosing to die on this hill. It wouldn't be difficult for scum to fake some reads here, and scum!Toog is basically gambiting on the fact we don't just policy them here since we do have 1 misshot left. While town!Toog doesn't care as much since they get the gun.. grumble gromble

[Hectic]

That's a very fair assessment, HockeyFan. I like Pav tonally but his content is iffy

HockeyFan
Lukewarm
Vulture
Toogelo
Enchant
Pavowski
T3
marcistar

[Hectic]

All of Pav's reads seem sheepy and based on other peoples reads which could be scum sheeping town here. "Hockey's play is weird but I like T3's read on it so I'm inclined to agree that Hockey feels town for now" is an example from 336 is an example. Also I dont really like 337 since that post implies hes wiling to keep all of his options open and not commit hard to a TR/SR.

This is just another one of those weird posts from Hockey. The thought process just doesn't make sense to me. You're welcome to SR me for "not committing hard", but, seriously...

Who, playing Mafia, doesn't keep their options open?

Generally, scum like to keep their options open more. Means they have less explaining/faking to do on progressions down the line if they need to scumread someone they previous townread or vice versa

I think the main reason it's scum-indicative though is that most scum feel taking a hard stance one way or another feels more risky, and is more prone to criticism/suspicion. Being

open

on the read feels like the safer route which is harder to scumread for specific points

[Hectic]

*Waves hands at whatever this is.*

This is beautiful, a work of art

Here, I'll lend you my account and you can take my mantle as Art:

username: Art
password: hunter2

[Hectic]

Someone else must've signed in before you could and hijacked the account, don't blame me

[Hectic]

I've been known to die on a lot of hills. It's not outside my scum range lol.

Generally, scum like to keep their options open more. Means they have less explaining/faking to do on progressions down the line if they need to scumread someone they previous townread or vice versa

I think the main reason it's scum-indicative though is that most scum feel taking a hard stance one way or another feels more risky, and is more prone to criticism/suspicion. Being open on the read feels like the safer route which is harder to scumread for specific points

And yet you town read me because I have vague reads (I could literally name any three people at any time since) and am WIFOMing the player list that I want to be shot.

/winkyface

Oi, are you trying to be scumread for posts like these

It makes me want to townread you more

[Hectic]

I'll throw you a bone.

One of the three people I would shoot immediately upon getting the gun is T3.

Would you also throw me the meat on the bone and explain why that is?

[Hectic]

Most likely. I'm going to take the full day and shoot based on votes, as if it were a launch.

I mean, I didn't want say just yet why this is a terrible idea, but yeah, Toog's right, Galron

There are 4 scum, letting them influence your decision via votes is a really bad idea

[Hectic]

How do you think you would be playing differently as scum, marci?

[Hectic]

I'd be disappointed if at least 2 of T3/marcistar/Pavowski weren't scum

We'd likely be in a good position if those 3 were the next 3 shots

Possibly a 5 town, 2 mafia situation

[Hectic]

Maybe it's just my take on this setup but I don't think it makes sense to ask for the gun today as town

But then I have to WIFOM myself down the drain. Is Toog asking for the gun hoping to get the gun? Or are they asking for the gun hoping they won't get it?

All of Pav's reads seem sheepy and based on other peoples reads which could be scum sheeping town here. "Hockey's play is weird but I like T3's read on it so I'm inclined to agree that Hockey feels town for now" is an example from 336 is an example. Also I dont really like 337 since that post implies hes wiling to keep all of his options open and not commit hard to a TR/SR.

This is just another one of those weird posts from Hockey. The thought process just doesn't make sense to me. You're welcome to SR me for "not committing hard", but, seriously...

Who, playing Mafia, doesn't keep their options open?

The chaotic energy of Marci's 392 is just :eek:

But specifically this:

But we have tiiiimeee, so marci, if you're not scum, give us a power star; talk about your reads etc

PLS SMSSKSMSK THIS IS SO FUNNY
i dont have too much reads, and im sure not confident enough in them to do anything with it :cool: :cool:

Do not like this response at all. Surely you have *something*?

I wasn't a fan of any of these last 3 posts from Pav

The Toog assessment looks more for show rather than him actually trying to draw anything meaningful from it
The defense against Hockey is bad imo
The dig at marcistar is also strange since marci does actually give *something* for reads if you look further up in that post of hers, she just included it in a response to one of my earlier questions

[Hectic]

VOTE: Hectic

Do you still scumread me, T3?

[Hectic]

Explain?

You're trying to scare me into thinking an incorrect shot on you ends the game since you would mishoot me, aren't you?

[Hectic]

Very sneaky of you, I understand why you don't use an avatar and hide your face now

It's fortunate that scum don't get the gun

[Hectic]

It's like you're a gimmick alt lol

[Hectic]

HockeyFan
Lukewarm
Vulture
Toogelo
Enchant
marcistar
T3
Pavowski

[Hectic]

That and the "this person could be scum, this person could be town... let's say i townread them "

[Hectic]

HockeyFan
Lukewarm
Vulture
Toogelo
Enchant
marcistar
T3
Pavowski

Alright at this point, hectic is just pocketing me LOL

Why are you expecting yourself to go down in my reads?

[Hectic]

T3, you haven't explained why you started scumreading marci this game after the various defenses of her

[Hectic]

HockeyFan
Lukewarm
Vulture
Toogelo
Enchant
marcistar
T3
Pavowski

Alright at this point, hectic is just pocketing me LOL

Why are you expecting yourself to go down in my reads?

Idk it just feels weird for someoene to TR me this hard without much of an explnation(u dont have to give one). This isnt me scumreading you, I still have u a TR but its something I wanted to point out

You're poking at people for reasons that align my own thoughts, and I haven't seen a reason recently to doubt the read

It also seems likely that mafia may be TMI-ing you town. If T3 is scum, it's very likely that was the case. You're also unlikely to be aligned with marcistar (so 2 of my scumreads right now don't look S-S with you)

[Hectic]

I'd be disappointed if at least 2 of T3/marcistar/Pavowski weren't scum

We'd likely be in a good position if those 3 were the next 3 shots

Possibly a 5 town, 2 mafia situation

There very well could be 2 scum there, I'm less confident in my TR on T3 over time.

Sorry you didn't like my last 3 posts. Let me elaborate and clarify.

Toog is still in null and I could read them asking for the gun either way. I'm still leaning scum.

I didn't particularly feel I was playing defense against Hockey, moreso stating my philosophy.

And Marci, well, it looks like you agree with my conclusion on that slot if not my reasons, so I'll take it.

You don't need to apologise for me disliking your posts ><

It doesn't help me to stop thinking you're scum, because your mindset right now seems to be to appease by trying to elaborate or clarify all the points against you

[Hectic]

What are your thoughts, Galron? I would recommend not spontaneously shooting like the snorlax.

Also, idea: Letting someone know you plan on shooting them 24 hours before you do gives a good opportunity for them to try and townspew/scumspew one last time on maximum WIM, and hopefully make their alignment clearer for us

[Hectic]

shrug

I can't shake the feeling

56 / 57 / 61 / 134

^Should we just shoot T3 for these really awkward gunbearer pocket attempts?

[Hectic]

shrug

I can't shake the feeling

56 / 57 / 61 / 134

^Should we just shoot T3 for these really awkward gunbearer pocket attempts?

The only pockety post I see in here is 61 if u can even call it a pocket. Other than that, I dont see how these are pockets, can you elobartae? Also if you're taking about gunbearer pockets, I direct your attention to luke :lol:

T3's buddying was more subtle than Luke's which makes it more suspicious

The definition I use for T3's pocketing here is excessively joking around with the gunbearer

[Hectic]

Well, so much for giving intent

marci's growing on me, I'm starting to believe her when she says she'd be faking more reads as scum after looking through her last scumgame

Enchant meanwhile seems to be avoiding this game which makes his scum equity rise sharply

HockeyFan
Lukewarm
Vulture
Toogeloo
marcistar
Enchant
T3
Pavowski

[Hectic]

Very cool

That flip makes Hockey very likely town for all the TMIing T3 did there

Vulture also looks better for his T3 push earlier

[Hectic]

T3 talks about marci a lot and kinda uses her as an anchor which makes her slightly more like to be town
He "hard clears" Enchant on page 1 for bad reasons but it's a bold way to treat a scum partner

^One of these is probably still scum though

He doesn't mention Pavowski much at all which is more eyebrow raises in that direction

[Hectic]

T3, there's 4 mafias. So one of them at minimum is in your Town list.

Why you not considering it?

Considering i saw pretty enough trollpeople, i think marci is town likely.

T3 mention some secret meta, and if she in maf list, then he noticed it. I just ask, is twerking alien have chain with that meta or what?

^These are Enchant's first 2 mentions of T3. Questioning him, but not explicit scumreads

I will ask blunt.

Who even thinks T3 is town.
Anyone?

^So this post is kinda out of the blue when Enchant is implying that T3 is the obvious shot, and comes after others are suspecting him. I smell potential bus

[Hectic]

Alright so Toog, u mentioned T3 "slipping" his partner, can you elaborate?

It might be this:
quote="In post 231, T3"]Hm let's see if marci did the ~tell~[/quote]

Not yet.

Not yet implies she will at some point because she's scum lol

[Hectic]

Both of them have some bad posts but I don’t think they’re scum together for how Enchant defended Marci?

It feels like a weird way to treat a scum partner to go “no they’re just bad someone is framing them” and then not saying who.

Yeah, I think we're looking at 1 of Enchant/Marci (probably marci), Pavowski, and 1 sneaky deepwolf

[Hectic]

The probably marci should say probably Enchant

It was a heavy typo

[Hectic]

What are your thoughts, Galron? I would recommend not spontaneously shooting like the snorlax.

Also, idea: Letting someone know you plan on shooting them 24 hours before you do gives a good opportunity for them to try and townspew/scumspew one last time on maximum WIM, and hopefully make their alignment clearer for us

I would also like to hear some thoughts from Galron and in addition to requesting intent to shoot, I would ask for a reads list before you do shoot, just in case you do miss and die. We know we can at least trust your reads to be genuine.

Well that was abrupt. Gal mind giving reads in case it's a bad shot?

I didn't say earlier, Pavoski, but do you know Galron or respect his play? Because I found this intense worry about him giving final reads before shooting really weird.

[Hectic]

I think you have to speak in her language to communicate, Vulture. Use the emojis

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

HockeyFan

Vulture

Lukewarm

Toogeloo

marcistar

Enchant

Pavowski

^Given those are my reads, and I think it's Pavowski + exactly 1 of Enchant/marcistar, it would mean 1 person I'm townreading in the top 4 is scum, our dear DEEPWOLF

Although, perhaps Toogeloo wouldn't qualify as a deepwolf given he's not as strong of a townread

That's a nice theory btw, Toogeloo, kinda towny

[Hectic]

Lukewarm's lack of deep solving is actually starting to worry me slightly. My experience of seeing town!him is being very analytical and proactive. There's been shades of that this game but it's started to peter out

Also, if you CTR+F T3 in his ISO, you see mentions of him saying he thinks he could flip scum, but never a reason why. I find this especially strange for Lukewarm given the familiarity he has shown with T3 in the past

[Hectic]

That's true, I've noticed he's had less bite than what I'm used to as well

I remember initially scumreading him in our last game together and he interrogated me because he was naturally suspicious of my read

How he's reacted to my initial suspicion as Art and to yours earlier contrasts that this game

[Hectic]

Hum de dum

HockeyFan
Vulture
Toogeloo
Lukewarm
marcistar
Enchant
Pavowski

Anyways, I feel bad for saying it because he seems like a nice guy, but I really do think Pavowski should be the next shot, Galron. I'm fairly confident on him flipping scum just based on the way he's been posting this game, my gut's been screaming it at me for a while now

[Hectic]

marci was interacting and bouncing off Luke too much for S-S imo. Like I think it'd be a lot harder to use Luke as a focal point for scum!marci if he was also scum, it's work and harder to make look natural

Their interactions also didn't really look like theatre to me

[Hectic]

Something always feels off even if you can't articulate it imo

[Hectic]

It's hard to get over the reasons I had for Luke!town in 335 though

475/476 were also towny but maybe it's too towny to be town

[Hectic]

Something always feels off even if you can't articulate it imo

Okay, not always, but for a player like marci who supposedly has very little confidence in her scumgame, I think it's different

[Hectic]

Perhaps

I think we agree on Pavowski being next snipe though, right?

I'm willing to case if you need convincing, Galron

[Hectic]

Both of them have some bad posts but I don’t think they’re scum together for how Enchant defended Marci?

It feels like a weird way to treat a scum partner to go “no they’re just bad someone is framing them” and then not saying who.

Thought this was pretty good reasoning for them not being S-S

[Hectic]

It's fun but probably not extremely productive, let's place our bets though

I reckon Pavowski + Enchant + Lukewarm

[Hectic]

@Pav:

"intense worry" is an exaggeration, sure

I'm debating whether town would be as considerate of Galron's reads, or whether you're scum going through the motions of asking because you think it's reasonable to

Your last few posts are considerably better and the doubt starts to set in again

[Hectic]

Well, it's not so much deep casing, it's just talking about specific things he's done and whether you find them towny/scummy

[Hectic]

(the lack of)

[Hectic]

But I am also starting to think that either Luke or hectic could be scum with her. Luke's pulling back which is unlike him (too many games he said and I get that, but still) but he seems to be holding some sus on Marci which brings him back up some in my book. I don't love hectics push on me.

Scum knows I'm legit and could easily be trying to get Galron to shoot me here, add to that I've already said I'm not super confident in my reads. Maybe he wants me to get the gun and misfire.

Taking a more critical look at this slot from here on out.

This is kinda dodgy though. Lukewarm having "some sus" on marci pulls him up some in your books? How confident exactly are you on marci being scum for that to be the case?

The bolded feels a little off too, like you're trying to convince an audience of your suspicions

[Hectic]

It felt like T3 actually believed Hockey being obvnewbtown. My theory is that it was an angle he took to get into the game with a foothold. Hockey was also appropriately weirded out by T3's whiteknighting in a few posts

I concur that 73 really pinged me at the time though. Art gives reads with Hockey as the biggest scumread, and he responds by complimenting the graphic without commenting on his position. It felt strange

[Hectic]

Do you have any thoughts on Vulture and I's discussing regarding you, Lukewarm?

[Hectic]

Can you explain

why

you're confident on scum!marci, Pav?

@Enchant:

Why are you avoiding this game? Who're your guess for the remaining 3?

[Hectic]

What does this even mean lol. having towny posts doesnt automatically make you scum

It means when there's a greater than average amount of townslips or voiced thoughts that are exclusive to a town mindset

Like there comes a point where if they're too frequent they might be faked

I don't think it's something to consider here though

[Hectic]

Town: Vulture, Hockey, Toogeloo

3 scum in Pavowski, marcistar, Enchant, Lukewarm

this is my view of the game right now

@Lukewarm: Why aren't you considering Enchant for scum?

[Hectic]

This is entirely possible and I'm trying to avoid it, I'm sure it's getting tiresome to those of you *not* scumreading Marci. I will try harder to avoid it in the future. (When she asks me questions, though, I feel somewhat compelled to answer.)

Uh, why would you ever let someone you think could be scum shut down you voicing a scumread? There's 3 scum out there and from your reads I can see you think hockey could be one, I don't know why you'd listen to his advice here and avoid openly voicing a scumread on marci

[Hectic]

but I still think Marci is scum, and T3's defense of her earlier suggests to me that we've been on the right track there.

This is a very level 1 reason for thinking marci is scum. Scum defending someone does not make that person more likely to be scum. It probably means nothing on its own.

You gotta look at the way T3 defended marci and whether or not you think it's genuine/theatre

[Hectic]

Fair enoff, Lukewarm

My confidence levels on Pav!scum are back to high and I feel better

[Hectic]

That doesn't look like theatre to me, Galron

Can you explain

why

you're confident on scum!marci, Pav?

@Enchant:

Why are you avoiding this game? Who're your guess for the remaining 3?

This is entirely possible and I'm trying to avoid it, I'm sure it's getting tiresome to those of you *not* scumreading Marci. I will try harder to avoid it in the future. (When she asks me questions, though, I feel somewhat compelled to answer.)

Uh, why would you ever let someone you think could be scum shut down you voicing a scumread? There's 3 scum out there and from your reads I can see you think hockey could be one, I don't know why you'd listen to his advice here and avoid openly voicing a scumread on marci

Hi, Pav

[Hectic]

256/257/258

^This was also a good push from Vulture on T3, and was the first big vocal scumread on T3 in the thread

[Hectic]

Everyone in this game right now:



We shall carve out order from the chaos though

[Hectic]

marci, why did you ramp the ironic gimmick posting to 100 this game? I'm debating whether it's a way for you to hide tone and not be read that way, or if you're just having fun with it

[Hectic]

In the meantime, a question for you since you're scumreading me (over the Marci read, and whatever else). If I'm scum, why in the balls am I going neck-deep in my scumread on Marci? If she does flip green (again I doubt it but let's face it, I could obviously be wrong), I'm almost guaranteeing that she turns around and shoots me in the face. A 1-for-1 trade is hardly ideal for scum in this setup. How is this a winning play for me as scum?

Scum have to scumread someone, it's not like scum!Pav would plan for marci to scumread him back and shoot him upon receiving the gun. Also, I'm not even sure if town!marci shoots you, there's been a lot of talk of Vulture-scum from her recently

[Hectic]

...marci

[Hectic]

Looking like you're gonna flip town, aren't you? I don't see a reason to give more info after death is guaranteed

My solve would still be Pav + Enchant + Lukewarm

[Hectic]

I'm feeling townish on Toog and Hockey these days, so ... I guess my poe would be in Vulture, Enchant, Luke, Hectic ... in no particular order at the moment, but I'm not super comfortable leaning into any of that right this minute.

what do u think about how enchant was tring me earlier?

It's bad. The only real reason he gave for townreading you was that mafia wouldn't be so outrageous. Ergo, he's saying mafia wouldn't do the posting schtick you do which is easily discounted if he looked through any of your other games and saw you do it every game

Otherwise, he seems far too confident on marci!town just because you're easy to push and "simple easy target" etc

Looks like some standard whiteknighting TMI to me

[Hectic]

(this is all assuming marci isn't just trolling here)

I also don't really like Luke's reason to townread Enchant. I get Enchant looks bored with the game and his posting progression reflects that, but I don't think that's exclusive to town. Like that reads makes me want to shoot Luke before Enchant, since there's a chance Luke is TMIing on town!Enchant (or he's just defending a scum buddy)

[Hectic]

One concern I have there tho, is that if he is scum, and has been gunning for me, then I think that might mean that my reads are bad. Otherwise, why risk giving me the gun?

I also wanna come back to this

I'm really struggling to see where this comes from a genuine town perspective. Like why does town!Lukewarm assume that scum!Vulture pushing him means he wants Lukwarm to actually get the gun? Galron is the gun bearer, and Vulture and I were pretty much the only ones in thread with much sus on Luke at that point. Does he really think scum!Vulture pushes him there eith the goal of getting Galron to shoot him, given Lukewarm's overall thread status?

It seems like a big jump in logic to go from
Vulture is pushing me and may be scum ->
Does that mean scum want me to have the gun? ->
My reada might be bad and they want me to misfire

Isn't it the far more likely conclusion that in a scum!Vulture world, Vulture is just faking reads and doing what scum do without a grander objective like

get the gun to someone who has bad reads

. And would scum!Vulture really think they can even influence Galron enough to shoot Luke?

Essentially, I don't buy that Lukewarm is actually worried about such a thing and that it's faked nuance that he would never think as town

[Hectic]

Yo Pav, can you articulate your thoughts on Luke? With like those fancy reasons people do sometimes

I know I'm asking you for a big favour here but I'll pay you in soul hearts if you can help me out

[Hectic]

Hmm

I go between being very sure and completely lost in this game, it feels uneasy

I think this setup is better in a marathon format. The extended time of no power/vote is a little frustrating tbh

[Hectic]

Would be a lot more fun with like 3 day deadlines between kernel explosions imo, currently it feels like the gun bearer shoots after everyone's stopped posting and become a little apathetic

[Hectic]

Dashing avatar btw, Luke

It does feel very dangerous to me to townread Enchant in a game like this for very little

[Hectic]

r u sure it would be that easy

Idk

I don't see any incompatibilities in the team. I could easily be wrong on Toogeloo though, what he's done is towny but not super hard to fake. I'm more confident on Hockey/Vulture

[Hectic]

Dashing avatar btw, Luke

It does feel very dangerous to me to townread Enchant in a game like this for very little

It is a fun temporary change, that interestingly would break site rules for me to tell you why the change happened :cool: :cool:

I've noticed a... plague of pirates spreading around the site and I have no idea why lol

Gonna have to go digging

[Hectic]

I would still strongly lean to shooting Pav over Lukewarm after seeing these recent posts

I really don't like 695 while Luke is giving more legitimate reasons

Also, I don't like the uncertainty Pav is still showing over marci potentially flipping town. I think it'd be pretty clear to town here that marci is town and has no reason to continue posting, potentially spilling more of her partners and giving opportunities for town to look towny if she were scum

[Hectic]

Scum!Pav may think it's a good idea to remain unsure because he wants to look uninformed, but I don't think it's genuine her

[Hectic]

*here

[Hectic]

marci, I

guess

I don't mind getting shot but you should shoot Pav first if you want that sweet sweet cred smh

[Hectic]

I shot Marci because I thought there's a fairly decent scum case to be made on her, and I did not like her response to my intent and didn't answer me on scumcasing vulture before I pulled the trigger. If Marci flips town, my advice to her is that if she gets too unsure who to shoot, shoot the player who you trust the most. I'm not giving a final reads list because Marci may flip red.

Ngl this is a pretty scummy post though

[Hectic]

Ugh everybody alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum, do not like

What do you mean, everyone alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum?

Everyone is a null read?

No I mean in a vacuum there are 4 scum to 8 shootable slots

I was getting ready to accuse you of tmi'ing how many scum there are, but double checked it is in the OP from the mod, and apparently I just missed it lol

4 seems like a lot for an 11 player game, but probably makes sense since we are nightless

Hmm, did you forget we were playing an open game

and did you look at the setup page when signing up in the queue?

[Hectic]

Meanwhile hectic isn't gonna miss an opportunity to read me in the least favorable way possible and I think I've seen that enough this game. Welcome to the top slot in my PoE. If I get the gun here it's probably gonna be open Hectic season.

Happy to be here! I don't you'll ever have hold of a gun unfortunately for yourself

722: Don't like this either. Why is Pav assuming marci is even likely to take Toog's advice here? It's so incredibly easy for scum to make a simple advice post like that, Pav's faking reads radar is off

[Hectic]

Hectic and Pavowski are still where I'm leaning. Maybe Vulture instead of Hectic, but I don't feel as strongly there, though Hectic and Pav are just gut reads anyways. Spend some time looking at T3's iso if it helps you eliminate some possible misfires.

Elaborate on your gut read on me? First I'm hearing of it

[Hectic]

Here's a simple exercise:

I've quoted two posts from different times with similar circumstances. Galron the gunbearer asks Pav why he's town. Galron the gunbearer tells marci she has 24 hours.

Spoiler:

Marci -- you've got 24 hours.

am i being threatened :cool: :cool:
idk what to say, but i promise im town :cool: u can ask any questions u have tho !!

Sure these posts may be a bit content-devoid, their tone I

think

is way townier than early game

i am not content devoid wtf :cry: :cry:

Spoiler:

Why are you town?

What a question. I mean, the short answer is green text in my pm

The longer answer is I'm trying to find scum and I'm trying to make my thinking clear to the group. I think we have found scum in Marci, whose "how could anybody possibly suspect me" schtick is pretty much all she's offered. I think she's a good shot and I think a red flip there would tell us a lot. (I say that fully aware that if she's town, she seems likely to shoot me at this point when she gets the gun, and that's the game if it goes that way... But I don't think she survives getting shot.)

I'm also trying to clean up my reads list because I keep forgetting there are 4 scum in this lobby which from my POV means half the non-gunbearing players are out here bullshitting. I have a bad habit of interacting with everybody as if they're town and forgetting that the entire point of this game is for a subset of the players to make bad-faith arguments.

Anyway, take a look at my reads and decide if you trust me not to lose the game.

Because if you shoot me, I have to shoot to keep the game alive. Personally I don't like my chances right now because I don't have a ton of confidence in any of my reads. I think I've also made it pretty clear where I'd likely aim first.

Do you see the difference; and which is from town, and which is from scum? One is rather nonchalant and almost dismissive, the person isn't overly concerned with being shot because hey, they'll get the gun.

The other writes a wall trying their best to change the gunbearer's mind, since being shot = DEATH.

Additionally, Pav's situation isn't even Galron threating to shoot him or intent, yet Pav tried his utmost best to sway Galron from shooting him. Sure, he claims it's because he's not confident in his reads, but the survivalistic mindset is very scum-indicative.

Btw I've bolded parts in that post that felt very off

[Hectic]

I believe your sample size is the game where I was olaf/Pyro

Yeah, that was a alt playstyle choice to be more bombastic and confident

[Hectic]

Oh, and [post=pichu]pichu[/post] lol, how could I forget

Yeah, I can see why you'd have that impression actually. I just ramp up the aggression and confidence for versus games

[Hectic]

pichu

[Hectic]

I should've played like a jester so I could get the gun early this game

Pav is a consensus scumread because he's scum and his 2 partners aren't gonna defend hum when very single other town player scumreading him. Otherwise, his partners would look like his partners

[Hectic]

I find Luke's analysis up there +scum, since he makes factual observations but doesn't try to draw any conclusions from it, which I think town!Luke likely would

752 outlines the possibilities with regards to Pav, but is very non-committal and he doesn't aim to express which he thinks is most likely

[Hectic]

I guess I am trying to decide if I think that implies that we are wrong on Pav, and scum team is riding it, or are his partners bussing / letting him sink :dead:

Put another way, scum would be happy to give me the gun :shifty:

Considering Pav scumreaded by everyone else, i think he is town.

Honestly I could be wrong on Pav just because of the fact no matter how much I scumcase whatever he posts he comes back and gives more takes and reads, like it doesn't seem to phase him at all. I have caught myself scumreading town payers similar to Pav with waffly (nice?) tones, so it might be that again

I feel more confident in a Luke shot at this current time

766: This is also scummy from Enchant

Hockey
Vulture
Toogeloo
Pavowski
Enchant
Lukewarm

[Hectic]

Ugh everybody alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum, do not like

What do you mean, everyone alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum?

Everyone is a null read?

No I mean in a vacuum there are 4 scum to 8 shootable slots

I was getting ready to accuse you of tmi'ing how many scum there are, but double checked it is in the OP from the mod, and apparently I just missed it lol

4 seems like a lot for an 11 player game, but probably makes sense since we are nightless

Hmm, did you forget we were playing an open game

and did you look at the setup page when signing up in the queue?

I never looked at the setup from the queue. ArcAngel modded the last game that all of Me, Marci, Pav, and T3 played in, and she asked us to sign up for this on in the post game of that one, and I did just because she asked lol

And I already knew how popcorn worked, because in a discord conversation like a week before I in'ed Notscience, LLD, and Cabd were talking about the set up when aa9 first signed up to mod it. So, I understood the gun mechanic even before aa9 asked up to join her game

So, yeah, I missed the town / scum split :oops:

I can't say much on this, because these specific events are probably true

What I don't understand is how town!Lukewarm forgot we were playing an open game that he signed up for in the open queue

It does say "Open 822: Popcorn Mafia" up there

[Hectic]

I seriously do not mind getting shot right now btw, I welcome it

I just really don't want to be shot if marci misfires given that would lose the game

[Hectic]

gib ur team prediction

Really difficult but I'll do my best.

My elim pool is Luke, Hectic, Vulture, and Enchant right this second. Hockey seems unlikely and Toog is gutpinging me hard as town over their recent posts.

Problem is I don't see a ton of scum equity among those 4, although this setup doesn't necessarily lend itself to the scum team showing a lot of equity. I also have a hard time thinking Luke and Hectic could be teamed, though I don't think I could articulate a good reason for that.

So... Enchant, Vulture, Luke/Hectic.

I go back and forth on Hectic. On one hand I feel like he's reading me unfavorably at almost every opportunity to try and get me shot. On the other he could be genuinely scum hunting and I just look bad for him. I know I was all gung-ho shoot Hectic this morning but honestly he's still one that could flip either way and not surprise me at all. (I double-talk myself a lot, which is probably the source of most of the scumreads against me, but I am what I am.)

Gun to head, I'd shoot Hectic over Luke. Ask me again in a couple hours and that could change.

But tomorrow's Saturday so I'm planning to re-read the game and see if my gutfeels line up with a look back.

Also sorry if I'm being extra-thick again but I dunno what pog means?

I mean he's wrong, but I was way wrong on Marci so I guess I can't be mad about it. The question is if he's wrong because he's scum or because I don't know how to not sound scummy.

Actually, I guess it could be both.

Anyway, refresh my memory? Your solve is me + ?

This is what specifically made me rethink Pav

His read on me ever since I started pushing him as been fairly complex. I can tell he goes back on forth on me, replying in good faith whenever I answer him questions, but expressing how he doesn't like my push. He's also aware on some level that he "sounds scummy". Like it's a lot better than just a standard OMGUS reaction or just "you're town and wrong", and that underlying thinking might make him town

Toogeloo's advice columns to marci have slightly rubbed me the wrong way, but I can't articulate why. Or maybe I'm just starting to think that because I think Pav may be town so someone needs to take his place as scum lol

[Hectic]

Inspired new solve:

Lukewarm + Enchant + Toogeloo

I reread Hockey and Vulture both again but I still think they're both town. T3 whiteknight of Hockey is a big factor for him. While, Vulture's 1v1 with Luewarm (assuming I am correct on Luke) is a big factor for him. Which leaves Toogeloo

[Hectic]

lol I made all those posts in bed right after waking up, Pav. Glad you enjoyed them

This is such a delightful day for me

Luke points out I'm pretty much universally scum read and all of a sudden people are diving off the boat

I wonder what the PT looks like right now :lol:

It is interesting that you were a consensus scumread, I townread you, and you're now almost a consensus townread (you owe it all to me obv)

I'll think about this more seriously when gain the motivation again

Anyway,

Gladiate: Lukewarm

I request you shoot Luke or I today, marci

[Hectic]

marci: Maybe it's a little selfish but I wouldn't mind being shot first because then I could finally have POWER. I very much like the odds of shooting Luke and it would give me much motivation to find the remaining 2. I've been struggling to keep myself motivated the longer this game goes, only finding it in short bursts

But yeah, if you want to go for pure wincon points, go for Luke

Look at the world where Pav and Hectic are town, Luke is scum. I've been pushing Pav for who knows how long, while still scumreading Luke in parts, but my preferred shot has remained Pav. Luke has been relatively unphased by my scumread on him, still thinking I'm town despite all of the various reasons I have said he's scummy for. He has also had Pav as his top scumread during this time.

HOWEVER, as soon as I recognise Pav is town, and Luke is now my preferred shot (largely for the same reasons I was expressing before), Luke now thinks Pav is town and Hectic is scum. There comes a big reevaluation and shift of thinking from him because he

needs

to do it, whereas he didn't before where Pav was the one being pushed to get shot, and likely would've shot me, winning scum!Luke the game. This isn't the case anymore, so Luke shifts his approach; townreading Pav, pushing me

To me, it's very clear that this turn of reads and actions are very self-motivated from Luke

[Hectic]

Not self-motivated

*scum-motovated

[Hectic]

Why don't you townread me anymore, Hockey?

[Hectic]

Hockey, do you mind ordering your reads right now? A mythical read ist of sorts

[Hectic]

Why do you think me tunneling was scummy or scum-motivated?

[Hectic]

I'm looking at Luke's reads and actions this game, and the consistent push on Hockey is very suspicious to me. It very much fits into the scope of distancing, just based on the reasons given yet lack of desire to ask anyone to shoot there.

Additionally, Luke right now knows he is going down either next shot or the one after (I have strongly implied I shoot him if marci shoots me), so his solve being two town in Hectic + Hockey seems quite unlikely to me. He'd probably want to distance with a partner, and his placement of Hockey would fit like a glove.

new NEW Inspired Solve:

Lukewarm + Hockey + Enchant + T3

We're locking this one in (probably for a day or two before I inevitably change my mind again)

[Hectic]

You could totally shoot Enchant and still hit scum 80% of the time btw, marci

[Hectic]

He was trying to quote it to the spec thread I assume

I really hope this isn't some intentional manipulative tactic from T3 though, he wouldn't do that.... right?!?

[Hectic]

Maybe he's laughing at it because scum's start this game was to hard buddy each other and be friends. Would fit this read list with my previous solve:

Town: Pav,

Hockey, Luke

Lean town: Toog,

Enchant

Null: Vulture
Lean scum: marci
Scum: Art
I think I forgot someone but I forgot who.

Would also work if Toog subbed in for anyone

[Hectic]

This is strictly a prodge post. I still like shooting in Luke/Hectic. I don't have a lot to add except to say that Luke's tone has shifted here. Could be indignant town, could be flailing scum. My money's on the latter.

A hero

I'll be here twiddling my thumbs, no way am I gonna put in the effort to dismantle Luke's case/words when I can just shoot him lol

[Hectic]

You're also a hero btw

[Hectic]

No agenda here, just little care

Waiting for the fireworks to start

[Hectic]

pew pew pew

[Hectic]

smh, if I was mafia, I'd be a mafia bulletproof strongman at the very least

[Hectic]

Hey, Luke, do you think you're out of your scumrange? If yes, then what part? Also, have you ever faked townslips as scum before, and is it something that you would consider doing as scum?

[Hectic]

Enchant, how do you read me, and why did you forget me from your readlist when I have the most posts in this game?

[Hectic]

If i receive gun right now, i will randomshot.

Even though i think you are town, i can be wrong, so i really doesn't exclude you from roll.

Before someone call me idiot, it's actually smarter. I am easy to decieve, but that way we have sure 50% chances to shot mafia. Consider me chaos force in this one.

This just feels like Encant is trying his hardest to discourage marci from shooting him

[Hectic]

Hmm, why are you so confident I'm scum?

Why do you think I randomly flip on Pav from certain scum to probably town in the space of like 15 minutes of posts? That was sleepy Hectic in bed who'd just woken up opening his eyes, aka the VISION QUEST. Why tip the balance when Pav is consensus scum, and do something so flip floppy which probably looks scummy on a surface level?

[Hectic]

I'm looking at your super long detailed walls and it'd be a first for you ias scum in terms of pure raw effort

[Hectic]

You reasons for scum!me are pretty nice tbh

The T3 thing: I think you overestimate the amount of power a single voice in thread would have. If I was bussing T3, I would just go all the way and have him bottom of my list, not always second last while hoping the gunbearer decides to sheep me out of everyone and not just shoot the person that is overall read as scummy by most

The gladiate thing; Seeing you flip to Pav town and Hectic scum as soon as I flipped on Pav myself looked really really bad to me. It made my confidence go from good to great. Also, I've simply stopped caring as much this game

[Hectic]

Does it change your opinion knowing why my confidence levels changed?

Ftr I would not immediately shoot if marci shot me. The gladiate was me wanting marci to either shoot my top confident scumread or me so that I could get the gun and finally have some fun, it wasn't me betting the game on you being scum since I still would've questioned you and made sure before pulling the trigger. (And I would expect you to do the same)

And I know, it's selfish in some way to want the gun just because it's more fun but it is what it is

[Hectic]

You kidding me lol?

Being the conftown having the deciding vote in Elo is literally my favourite position in any mafia game. I've said it many times before if you want proof from other games

Some of my fondest memories are the victories coming out of those moments, it's the THRILL. Some of the defeats are even pleasant to think back on

[Hectic]

To be frank, I don't think I ever gladiate you as scum. My aim as scum would absolutely be to endgame. To gladiate you is very unnecessary cutting my lifetime short for absolutely no good reason, since it means marci is much more likely to shoot me, and it would also likely make you much more likely to shoot me if marci shot you

[Hectic]

It's an okay strat if my slot is already fairly scumread, but at the time, I was still pretty townread and to throw all that away is just bad scumplay

[Hectic]

Sure. Being flip floppy and all over the place is an absolute classic town trait of mine though btw, I like to remain consistent with my reads as scum, and when I do the change them, I like to show clear and "towny" progression. I don't think I've ever done something as scum like I did with Pav earlier this game

I will now have to obviously do that the next time I roll scum so it's in my scumrange lol

Anyways, much to think about, I should sleep too. My preffered shot right now is Enchant

[Hectic]

It's a day ability which forces players to vote between the person who used the gladiate and who they gladiated

Luke's reading way too much into it though since it is purely figurative in this case and not "game losing" if we're both town. One of us being shot does not mean the othe person immediately drops dead

Shoot: Hectic

or VOTE: Shoot: Hectic would both work

[Hectic]

Nah, my biggest scumread is Enchant right now

Luke is in a very unsure territory for me right now, after actually reading through his Dead Silence scumgame and seeing the effort there doesn't even come close to the walls he's put out here, and what he said about the townslip is kinda convincing

I think I'd prefer if you shot me over Luke since I don't like the possibility of town!Luke shooting me and losing the game

but beat shot Enchant

[Hectic]

*best

[Hectic]

cuz if enchant is town, its like ....

The more he posts, the more I think he's trying to give off the impression he's just gonna lolrandomshoot to discourage marci shooting him

There's definitely scum-motivation there

[Hectic]

what do u think about vulture or toogeloo

Toss ups and both townier than Enchant

[Hectic]

This is off topic, but we now have 3 players who have openly expressed reluctance to play/post due to not holding the gun and I just don't get it, I think this setup is fascinating. But to each their own!

Yea I didnt mean to mean it that way, Its just that A. im in other games B. This game feels stale cuz I have my Sr's pretty much locked in. Maybe i have a conf bias on you(pav), but I think you're scum regardless. Hectic tunneling this makes me TR hectic a bit less tho so ehhh maybe things could change but i think not

Why don't you townread me anymore, Hockey?

748,759

Hockey, do you mind ordering your reads right now? A mythical read ist of sorts

Enchant -> Luke -> Hectic -> Pav -> Vulture -> Togeloo

Now im not saying enchant/luke/hectic have scum paired with each other this game, they're just indivually scummy

do u think i should shoot within u/luke?
i kinda dont wanna but like if itll help town i will..

honestly, I think they're both a better shot than enchant so yes, you should

Isn't Enchant your top scumread?

[Hectic]

Toogeloo could definitely be scum, nothing he's done is anywhere close to out of his scumrange

Townier than Enchant though

[Hectic]

Last thing I'm going to say is that I have a very slight suspicion that T3 scum slipped a partner, but I'd need T3 to flip scum first before I divulge my suspicion and why. If I had the gun, I'd just shoot T3 and then follow up with the second shot if I was right.

I'd like TO flipped, then if scum I'll say where I think they scum slipped a partner.

Or Galron can shoot me, and I'll rapid fire if I'm right

Here is where I think T3 slipped his partner....

Players in order of readability:
Really easy: Lukewarm, marcistar
Also ez but slightly less: Pavowski, Toogeloo
I have some idea: Enchant, HockeyFan
Screw alts:

Hectic alt

, Galron, Vulture
OPENWOLF: NM

I had no idea that Art was Hectic's alt until Hectic officially replaced into the game. After he replaced in, I went and looked at Art's posting history. There is no reference that Art was Hectic there. So then I checked Hectic's posting history, and I went all the way back to the beginning of July (Art was born mid-July). There was no mention of an Art alt there. So how did T3 know that Art was Hectic's alt? An alt like that probably needs an ego post from it's main account in a private topic, especially for easier communicating.

My suspicion is Hectic made himself known in the mafia chat and T3 slipped that knowledge in the beginning of the game.

If I had the gun, Hectic would be my next shot.

My third suspect is Pavowski, which is more gut.

These first 2 posta are actually kinda sus

Toogeloo twice implies that he would "rapid fire" T3 into Hectic if he were shot and made the gunbearer

We later discover his theory in the third post, which was immediately disregarded by Vulture

Did town!Toogeloo really intend to rapid fire me after T3 if he was the gunbearer, without giving the reasoning or asking for an explanation? It seems pretty bizarre not to think about asking for an explanation to the slip first

[Hectic]

Scum!Toog doesn't use that case to push me, Luke. He posts it to look towny

It shows he actually bothered to look through my post history and think about it which is slightly +town

[Hectic]

Got Ninja'd again. Phone posting slows me down so much x.x

Rejoice

[Hectic]

Enchant probscum for:
-marci whiteknight
-Pav whiteknight
-"If you shoot me I will random shoot" - discouraging people to shoot him
-Disinterest for this game

[Hectic]

When he looked, my only posts as Hectic back to July were mod posts in Yin and Yang, this was also before any PTs were released. It wasn't actually a lot to look through.

[Hectic]

The real mafia are the friends we made along the way

Why did you make this post, Hockey? Like what in the thread was it a response to or referring to?

[Hectic]

When he looked, my only posts as Hectic back to July were mod posts in Yin and Yang, this was also before any PTs were released. It wasn't actually a lot to look through.

Have you not been in games?

I saw "looked through a month and a half of all posts on site" and thought, yeah, that guy's town

I was also vaguely leaning town before that, but would need to reread his earlier iso to remember why. That post supplanted all prior reasons to think Toog was town lol

Not since Forest Fire. My other games have all been on alts

I read his stubbornness towards not giving reads as town

His multiple advice columns to marci are slight +scum

There's just not a lot to go on tbh

[Hectic]

I'm not willing to bet there is one scum in Hectic/Luke. My concern is that Marci shoots Hectic and he is town, and then he shoots Luke who is also town.

I've been toiling around with the possibility that the scum team is Enchant, Hockey, and Vulture for the past 24 hours.

I'd rather Marci shoot me then Hectic or Luke since I would probably shoot Enchant, then Hockey, and then hash out the final shot after that if I'm right.

Why is that your concern after I've explicitly said I would likely shoot Enchant over Luke right now (same as you)?

[Hectic]

i was waiting to have time to reread the game, which i did like last night i think? or the night before that, dont remember when, but when i read i got busy right after as well OGHDFJ

i actually was so close to shooting someone else btw ;) i had it typed up but i thought a bit about it and deleted it :cool:

Who?

I like Toogeloo a lot less solely for 935. It becomes a lot more performative when you realise I'd spent the last 2/3 pages talking about how I'm no longer confident on Luke and I'd rather have Enchant shot.

It might be scum getting the last minute bus in seeing the tide is turning against Enchant anyway.

I actually like Hockey's 899 because it feels uninformed and bold to say something like that if you're Enchant's partner

[Hectic]

Mostly because I looked at his last scumgame and the amount of effort/nuance he's put into this one greatly exceeds it. That's what got me initially doubting myself and why I enquired into his "townslip" further, and his response there was good.

I wouldn't bet my house on it, I'd put maybe a shed on him being scum, and a conservatory on him being town.

[Hectic]

lol wrong link

880

[Hectic]

I didn't see another scumgame, Luke, but it shall-

Oh no, I just opened it now and saw all the walls. I don't see why you redirect me to it as scum but looks like I can't just lazily say your effort is town. Btw part of the reasoning was that you were still putting out that solving/effort even after I'd made it very clear I was shooting you and marci had suggested she was probably shooting me. So it felt pretty unnecessary at that point for convincing me or marci that you're not scum, with our minds seemingly made.

marci ignored 957 and goes down a few tiers in my reads.

[Hectic]

Hockey, can you come hit the puck around a bit?

Your post-shot silence and opting to post in other games is giving bullet shivers.

[Hectic]

Hey hey, haven't read in a while, and I'm busy for a couple of days

I'm not gonna say who I think marci should shoot because I am completely uninformed about recent events

[Hectic]

Okay, I skimmed since it was only 2 pages in 4 days. I'd still shoot Toog, Hockey's still probtown

[Hectic]

I think I'm gonna be embarrassed no matter who's scum at this point

[Hectic]

I've probably somewhat thrown by not trying to towncase Hockey more and dissuade marci, curse time constraints

I'll try and dedicate time to do some more reading soon.tm

[Hectic]

I think Hockey should hipfire at you, we're at a point in the game state that you being fired at is healthy.

If you say so, but being the elo shot is scary x.x

What do you make of Toog asking Hocket to shoot you, Luke? Does it change you read on them at all?

[Hectic]

Luke and Hockey, I'd like to hear from both of you the best reason for why Toog is town

Considering the earlier discussion about why the Art look through isn't actually that much effort
And their 935 still pings me a lot (957 - explanation)

[Hectic]

Vulture, how confident are you on Luke being scum at this point?

[Hectic]

I guess I can see that from your perspective

From my perspective, I see that how vocal he is about shooting me has actually gone down over the course of last week or so, and I think that may be correlated to my willingness to shoot him, since it's around the same time I've had him as my top shot

Since he was always pretty strong on you being town, with posts like 968, so expressing desire to have you dead over me is very ? to me at this point

[Hectic]

^to Luke

[Hectic]

Luke and Hockey, I'd like to hear from both of you the best reason for why Toog is town

Considering the earlier discussion about why the Art look through isn't actually that much effort
And their 935 still pings me a lot (957 - explanation)

Honestly its a gut read and looking through his iso, he hasnt done anything that stands out as scummy to me

He's done a lot less than Pav/Luke/I

Less content means less posts are gonna look scummy, while even if all 3 of Pav/Luke/Hectic are town, you're gonna find loads of scummy posts just due to how much we've posted. The lack of effort isn't scum-indicative exactly but it does make his playstyle a lot easier to play if scum

[Hectic]

I will say one thing about Enchant's iso. He forgot Hectic in his list on who should be shot when Galron had the gun. I want to say that scum are probably more likely to forget a town name than a scum name on a list of players.

My solve still remains Hockey and Vulture today.

Good read though tbh

[Hectic]

Eh, my only hard read right now is Pav-town

[Hectic]

[Hectic]

It kinda looks like a scumclaim

[Hectic]

Yeah, "real winner" about having most pagetops, despite being shot as scum

gg if so Luke

Respect for your scumgame has gone up massively

[Hectic]

Racking up the pagetops, we'll see who's on top by the end of this game

[Hectic]

lol no

[Hectic]

In the case of Luke-scum, pretty sure this is a sure win as long as Pav

isn't

shot under any circumstances

We can literally shoot all but 1 person

[Hectic]

Pretty funny that you think the Hectic vs Luke gladiate saga is ever S/S, Toog. Our interactions this game are some Sydney Opera House level theatre if we're S/S.

The reality is that it's you or Vulture but I don't need to figure out which. Pav is always town, based on the interactions he's had with the flipped scum (especially Luke) and his play this game. Also, a lot of players in this game have grown apathetic, many of them being town, but Pav has always been there providing more content and insight. His stamina as scum would have to be pretty insane to keep up that constant level.

Basically, we can shoot Hectic/Toog/Vulture in any order and this game is always a win. Not gonna bother putting in the effort to find out whether it's Toog or Vulture when it's completely unneeded.

[Hectic]

Anyone who isn't Pavowski

[Hectic]

Works for me

[Hectic]

Quick, everyone name your favourite type of weapon of mass destruction, and I'll shoot whoever has the worst answer

[Hectic]

But seriously, I'm genuinely just 50/50 between Toog and Vulture. This game really is a win if the town in them just realises or sheeps the fact that Pav is town and never shoots him

I won't be putting in the effort to turn that 50/50 into a 80/20 due to time constraints, so Pav, please figure it out for me. Tell me a name when you're ready, I believe in you.

[Hectic]

I swear, Hectic

you better either shoot Mafia, or shoot me.

Cuz if we go into 3p LimLo and I have to defend myself after begging for the gun all game, I'm going to be sour.

Are these two mutually exclusive or can I get a 2 for 1 deal?

Alsop, you should've

accidentally

scumslipped if you wanted the gun super early

[Hectic]

You want me to towncase him? That's so much effort... but I'll see what I can do later

It's a combination of very clean interactions with flipped scum, meta, energy/effort, and tone

[Hectic]

Tomorrow!

[Hectic]

I'll do the towncase and take the SHOT

[Hectic]

Alright alright, let's get down to business

[Hectic]

The way Pav's played this has been super clean. Even now, he's going into depth and ISO-diving, and solving in a very believable way. You'd think if he were scum, you'd read at a couple of things and think

huh, that seems weird/dodgy

, but there have been none of those moments from Pav in the last week or so. He's unafraid to see what he wants, whereas he'd probably be more cautious about disrupting the status quo if he were scum. The more content he produces, the more likely he posts something that could slip him up. The fact he isn't in that mindset and his going gung-ho to find the last scum is very, very towny.

If he was a potential migrater from another site, who's actually secretly a god at scum, I might be a little more cautious, but he was recently a newbie, and his only scumgame is for all to view. He played fine, being the last scum to get voted out on day 5, but it's clear that that 59 post ISO doesn't even come close to the level of solving or depth that we've seen here.
Contrast that to the 189 posts here, with many more of them being wally and far more in-depth, like, we're talking ravine levels of depth here.

And then we have Lukewarm's telling behaviour around Pav:
I consistently scumread Lukewarm more and more for a part of the game. I give many reasons for why he's scum, but always place Pav below him at the bottom of my reads, advocating a shot on Pav instead. 614 621

703 - At the time of this post, Luke and Pav are my bottom two scumreads, but I continue to say Pav should be the shot over Luke. Lukewarm is unphased and does not comment, leaving me as town and also being fine with a Pav shot.

769 - I finally reconsider Pav, Luke is now my bottom scumread and preferred shot

787/794 - Luke is now scumreading me and townreading Pav

It's fairly obvious that Luke was fine with me scumreading him as long as I kept advocating Pav to be shot, as it would likely lead to a Pav-shot into Pav shooting me. But the moment Pav rose in my reads, and Luke became the prioritised shot, he shifted his strategy, scumreading me. If Pav was scum here, nothing has changed for scum!Luke from me going from Pav preferred shot to Luke preferred shot, since I was scumreading them both anyway.

However, it changes everything for Luke if Pav is town and I go from wanting to shoot Pav to wanting to shoot Luke.

The drastic shift in gameplan from Luke and the wall he pumped out to start attacking me in response is very telling imo that Pav is town.

Other than that:

This is such a delightful day for me

Luke points out I'm pretty much universally scum read and all of a sudden people are diving off the boat

I wonder what the PT looks like right now :lol:

This was really genuine and I'd be impressed if it was faked

797 - Luke's wall was really nice looking and there's no reason for his scum partner to continue advocating him to be shot over me. And his opinion does actually matter here, since at this point he was becoming UTR and the gunbearer would actually consider his view.

775 - Sweetly accurate with good reasons

[Hectic]

VOTE: Shoot: Vulture

Let's see if any of that was needed. Please heed my words if you're town, Vulture.

[Hectic]

Yeah, as much as you'd like to be you're not a powerwolf this game, Pav. I know you crave it

Wanna go bowling after this? I only play on the wii though

[Hectic]

If I knew that art was hectic, I would have given him the gun Day 1 :/

My reasoning for giving it to Not_Mafia was that he is pretty good at scum hunting (but normally struggles to get town to follow him, but that did not matter this game) and he was always getting shot at some point. SOMEONE was going to shoot him. If he was going to get the gun, I wanted him to get it when there was the least amount of info for him to scum hunt with.

Which, for Hectic, similarly, I would have wanted him to have the gun and get out of the game as soon as possible. How hectic differed from Not_Mafia is that he was not going to get shot early and does have the ability to get town to follow him. So, by not giving him the gun off the bat, he was able to live long enough to solve the puzzle, and give town winning directions.

This would have been a very different game if I had known that Hectic was Art :sob:

I assumed this would mostly be a meme game too and that I would play it through on Art. The game started to really interest me though so I wanted to use

words

.

Well played btw, you played amazingly

[Hectic]

Interesting Luke. I can see your thinking there.

Off topic, this has been my favorite game so far on site. I joked about Hectic having a vision quest when he switched up his reads midgame, but I had one of my own. Basically this is like the 3rd game I've had as town where I just started getting scum reads on me and I couldn't figure out why. It was seriously stressing me out. But at a certain point - I guess it was when Luke pointed out the entire lobby was scum reading me - I just said hell with it,if my play gets me scum read I might as well have fun with it.

A relaxed Pav is a more fun Pav whether I'm winning or not. Let's see if that holds up next time I roll scum...

I felt that! You were just spewing your thoughts out and the town shone through. Playing like you have nothing to lose and being completely transparent is a strong strat as town. Filtering yourself as town only makes you look like scum generally.

[Hectic]

Thanks for modding, ArcAngel!

Fun game, although I completely sympathise with scum that this would greatly benefit with much shorter deadlines.