Open 452i - Open Space

[Name User]

VOTE: MattP
Unbearable, as well as Aether and Nom.

[Name User]

So much damn fluff.

Add AngryPidgeon to the list of unbearability.
Any of those four, please.

[/unvote]Matt[/unvote]
VOTE: Om

[Name User]

Damn tags.

[Name User]

By "unbearable" I mean that all that is being posted by them is random shit, nothing that will help us and only clogs up the thread.
Doesn't mean scummy, just anti-town, and irritating.

Scum would want to encourage pointless talk, so in a way it is kind of scummy, but I'd be surprised if Aether and MattP are scum again.
But Aether literally told us he was going to play as Village Idiot, regardless of alignment, and we've heard MattP's style of gameplay,

as for Om and Pidgeon, who could be scum, they're posting a lot and not contributing anything, there was a wagon on Nom when I came in so I took it.

[Name User]

As to my reading so far, the don't like the self votes by Aether and Om earlier, even in jest. The wagon on Om wasn't quite as wagony once I realized he was self voting.

Still kinda bad that the pile got so big

, and Director's response not cool.

Why's that a bad thing?

And self-voting as scummy is overrated.

[Name User]

That is the waffliest shit I've ever seen.

What does this mean?

As much as I'm tempted to have a Matt-lynch, I'm just not getting a scumread from him, only thing I'm getting is "Everyone sucks" posts.
So no thank you.

Instead VOTE: Venmar, when every single post has been a tunnel on someone,

anyone

, something's up.

[Name User]

Aether, stop with the damn percentages.

[Name User]

Going with my gut, declan is looking scummy.
I'm wondering why we don't have a wagon on him.
And I'm pretty sure there is no declan-om team.

But anyway,

I don't like the people on the wagon, but VOTE: Om for now.
Matt is being pretty useless, but isn't hurting town too much, plus it's still pretty early, so let's not hammer him. (Like I said, I doubt he's scum, anyway.)

[Name User]

I'll change my vote for a Venmar or a Declan wagon.

[Name User]

Declan is scum. His posts are all pretty fake.

VOTE: Matt

L - 1.

...

Scum reads in no particular order (except Declan is obvscum at this point):

Why vote Matt if Declan is so scummy?

[Name User]

By "unbearable" I mean that all that is being posted by them is random shit, nothing that will help us and only clogs up the thread.
Doesn't mean scummy, just anti-town, and irritating.

as for Om and Pidgeon, who could be scum, they're posting a lot and not contributing anything, there was a wagon on Nom when I came in so I took it.

What's the distinction between Om and Pidgeon, who are scum for "posting a lot" and the other people who you consider unbearable for for posting "random shit?"

Taking quotes out of context?

That "as for" was indicating a change in subject.

[Name User]

What the hell director?

[Name User]

1) don't ever post lists of reads

[Name User]

I have to say I'm surprised at Matt's change of gameplay.
Cool.

You still shouldn't have claimed.
I'm sheeping you, for now though.

[Name User]

I've been busy, sorry for not posting.

Give me a moment.

[Name User]

Name User closes out page 4 with a change in vote from mattP to Om despite the fact the neither MattP or Om posted anything between NU voting them. So why the change?

FOS

Name User

I noticed that there was a wagon on Nom and not on Matt, so wagon for wagon's

What Disturbed_One said.

Not what AngryPidgeon said.

Terrible MattP post. I seldom look at join dates unless someone is acting inexperienced. Which isn't jumping out at me in this game. Stop being so conceited ffs.

Page 7 has people getting personal....for shame.

Good Lord Mhork question to Aether.

Up to page 10...still suspecting Name User.

Thanks for the contribution, guy.

@Name User re Post 231...why change from Venmar to Om following the MattP claim? Venmar hadn't even posted since you voted him iirc. WTF? And why would you vote someone if you suspect the people on his wagon (ie Aether and Venmar)?

Like before, I figured nobody was going to vote Venmar, so I compromised on Om.
I meant I didn't like their gameplay, not anything to do with their roles.

[Name User]

Oh, and by the way Om, I didn't really suspect you by the end of day 1, I just never changed my vote.

[Name User]

What the heck I do?

-

Vote: Declaran

Can someone explain Declan's post is scummy? I don't really understand this.

[Name User]

Excuse the multiple-posting, if it bothers you for whatever reason.

Because I would hope the hider wasn't stupid enough to go hide behind someone else, die and then get me needlessly mislynched for no good reason and leave the scum still alive.

Why would that get you mislynched?

VOTE: dragon

OMGUS DETECTED. SCUMTEAM OF OM OF THE NOM AND ANGRYPIDGEON DETECTED.

Angry votes Nova --> Om is scum?

[quote="In post 491
So, at the moment I'm gonna say Pidegeon is town. He's been heavily scum hunting and he has very accurate reads IMO. He's been taking a stance on the issues at hand and is not afraid to share his opinion. I like Pidgeon, I don't see any reason to see him as scum.[/quote]

I feel it's more self-preservation than anything.

Om and AP

, you think Declan could also be hider, why?

Om, why do you pull out an Aether lynch proposal out of nowhere?
----

Can't really think of anything else to add.
Fitz seems to be town, because I agree with most of his reasoning. NovaDragon is just unlucky town.

Somebody convince me that Declan is scum.

[Name User]

Quoted the wrong bit in post 491.

Novadragon and Declan feel like obvscum to me. Declan tried to play the "I don't know what I did wrong" card, which is a huge scum-tell. Novadragon's AP vote was shitty to begin with, and his vote for Declan is such an obvious bus.

Vote: Novadragon

[Name User]

If I'm hider I'm hiding behind Declan!

Name User Y u ignore my question

Oops, I didn't see it the first time.

By "unbearable" I mean that all that is being posted by them is random shit, nothing that will help us and only clogs up the thread.
Doesn't mean scummy, just anti-town, and irritating.

as for Om and Pidgeon, who could be scum, they're posting a lot and not contributing anything, there was a wagon on Nom when I came in so I took it.

What's the distinction between Om and Pidgeon, who are scum for "posting a lot" and the other people who you consider unbearable for for posting "random shit?"

Taking quotes out of context?

That "as for" was indicating a change in subject.

Nice deflection. You lumped Om/AP with all the other "unbearables" in post #98. So I'm not taking anything out of context. Plz answer question.

You took out the middle part. of my post.

By "unbearable" I mean that all that is being posted by them

by "them", I mean all four of the people I had mentioned in post 98.

is random shit, nothing that will help us and only clogs up the thread.
Doesn't mean scummy, just anti-town, and irritating.

Scum would want to encourage pointless talk, so in a way it is kind of scummy, but I'd be surprised if Aether and MattP are scum again.

Here, I'm talking about Aether and Matt.

But Aether literally told us he was going to play as Village Idiot, regardless of alignment, and we've heard MattP's style of gameplay,

as for Om and Pidgeon,

And here I'm talking about the other two

who could be scum, they're posting a lot and not contributing anything, there was a wagon on Nom when I came in so I took it.

An early post that's irrelevant now, since I don't feel the same way about any of them anymore. Aether is getting better, but he's still hiccuping every once in a while.

[Name User]

VOTE: dragon

OMGUS DETECTED. SCUMTEAM OF OM OF THE NOM AND ANGRYPIDGEON DETECTED.

Angry votes Nova --> Om is scum?

Om is already at 20% town when I made that post.

Come to think of it, I seriously think that AngryPidgeon and NovaDragon are bussing each other.

%%%
That doesn't answer anything.

@Venmar, post 578, "shamelessly wagoning" is one way of looking at it. But I call it "compromising".

Om is not scum, and if he is, there's not much evidence, hider and all that, spend your energy on something else.

I was wrong, Aether isn't getting better.

[Name User]

Om is obvtown. Venmar is prob town. Im nowhere near caught up.
Aether is looking scummy.
Declan still muh pick, may change on catchup. The fuck is techno.
Is this twilight or not????

Don't be dumb Om.

Anything else?


---

If I was being waffly as shit with my reads I wouldn't have been able to define where I stand on any of my reads.
I've proved otherwise.
I've also shown tons of confidence, and frankly if you feel you want more confidence from me I can arrogantly say I know I'm not going to get lynched today.

- There is a difference between defining where you stand on your reads and then contradict them later. I'm sorry but you're not pushing your reads enough for me to tell you that you're being confident about them, and in some cases I can define it as you trying to give out suspicion without getting on someone's bad side. The Aether thing is a good example.

Are you saying Om is trying to not get on Aether's bad side? If you you're wrong.

Aether it's pretty obvious Om was joking.
VOTE: Aether Stop.
Who's the "so-called hider"?

[Name User]

@Name User...regarding Post 560, you claim to have moved from Matt to Nom because there was more of a wagon on Om. Fair enough. Then you give some bullshit excuse for moving from Venmar to Om following Matt's vig claim. But why were you on Venmar in the 1st place? You moved off Matt initially because there was no wagon on him (you had the lone vote) on to Om who did have a wagon (you put him at L-2)...but then you decide to start a new wagon on Venmar (you had the lone vote). WTF? And now you're saying you didn't even suspect Om by the end of D1 (despite leaving your vote on him the rest of the day). The Matt and Venmar voting moves make no sense.

Is it really that hard to understand? I voted Matt, decided nobody liked him as scum, so voted Nom. Then I liked Venmar as scum better than Nom, so I voted him, but nobody would vote Venmar, so I went back to Nom.
Matt's claim had little to do with anything.
And director got lynched before I could take my vote off of Om. Also, I tend to leave my votes lying wherever they are until I vote someone else.

PEDIT: Fitz isn't tunneling you.

[Name User]

Browser crashes in the middle of post.



Do it again, right?

[Name User]

Unless it crashes again.
I am frustrated, and have to do other things, so I'll have to skip over the fancy tags and paraphrase.

[Name User]

In post 561, Name User wrote:Oh, and by the way Om, I didn't really suspect you by the end of day 1, I just never changed my vote.
You said this looked town. Why?

In post 563, Name User wrote:I feel it's more self-preservation than anything.
You said that Oh you were talking about giggs/dragon here? Or just Giggs?
I was talking about Disturbed saying that Nova was busing Giggs. I said it was probably self-preservation.


In post 563, Name User wrote:NovaDragon is just unlucky town.
What events or statements constituted this town read at the time you declared it?
Hmm, not a town read. "Unlucky null" would have been a better word-choice. I meant that I felt the wagon on Nova was unjustified, there was nothing scummy about him in my opinion.

Reads list:
Om: I'd like to think is town, but continued, fruitless bickering with Aether is bothering me.
Nova: Nothing scummy.
AngryPidgeon: Angry! Towny town-asset.
Declan giggs: Scum.
Distrubed One: Lurky scum.
Aether: Most anti-town player in game. Won't be playing any games with this guy in the near future.
havingfitz: Walls of text and a slight smartass, but probtown.
Last survivor: Nothing scummy.
Venmar: Puzzling and lurky, making him scummy.

So, Giggs is scum, and there's scum in Venmar, Aether, Disturbed One. I'm still contemplating on Om.

[Name User]

Declan says: I played along with the everybody say their hider target thing, but it was a horribly scumtacular idea in truth and NOT the best strategy for the town to benefit from the hider role (not that we had time for a better strategy with the rush to lynch Dragon). AP also tried to open the door to me to "claim hider" (post 524) then lynch me when the real hider counterclaims. Scummy.

AP ask: Declan, why would that plan work for me?
1. Why would you be so dumb as to fake claim hider for any reason ever? Why would I think I could get you to fake claim hider?
2. Geting you lynched for fake claiming (AND THEREFORE BEING SCUM SINCE THAT IS THE ONLY FEASIBLE TIME YOU WOULD DO THAT) is scummy how? Even if I were retarded enough to think I could get you to fakeclaim as town?

Best I've seen so far, and that's why
VOTE: Giggs

[Name User]

Last survivor, I don't know if my posting streak just now bothers you, but if it does, I just like making short relatively concise posts, and was afraid that my browser was going to crash again.

I don't really have much to say right now.

Why did you feel it was necessary to make this post?

- Why did you feel it was necessary to address this post?

This one is going to be anti-town too as well, apparently.

[Name User]

Okay, I'd like to see him post something good, actually.
UNVOTE: Declan_Giggs
VOTE: Disturbed One

[Name User]

Name User: Leaning Scum
Aether: VI
Lastsurvivor: Leaning Town
AngryPidgeon: Leaning Town
Dragon: Prob Scum
Declan: Scum
Disturbed: Null
Havingfitz: Hard to say, I would say leaning town for now.

Well at least we agree on a few things.

I don't like how NU is justifying his vote with pressure and lurkiness rather than legitimate reasons. I'll put it out there right now, lurking is not a scumtell on it's own and you're all scummy for pushing a lynch on a lurker without anything else to justify it. Period.

No, not period. "." <---- No.
There are three options: You are scum, you don't care, or both. Probably both.
Look at his entire day 1 posting, he adds nothing of substance whatsoever. At around the time of this post, his day 2 playing is a pathetically weak Declan case on a loop, and apologizing.

[Name User]

Declan says: I played along with the everybody say their hider target thing, but it was a horribly scumtacular idea in truth and NOT the best strategy for the town to benefit from the hider role (not that we had time for a better strategy with the rush to lynch Dragon). AP also tried to open the door to me to "claim hider" (post 524) then lynch me when the real hider counterclaims. Scummy.

AP ask: Declan, why would that plan work for me?
1. Why would you be so dumb as to fake claim hider for any reason ever? Why would I think I could get you to fake claim hider?
2. Geting you lynched for fake claiming (AND THEREFORE BEING SCUM SINCE THAT IS THE ONLY FEASIBLE TIME YOU WOULD DO THAT) is scummy how? Even if I were retarded enough to think I could get you to fakeclaim as town?

Best I've seen so far, and that's why
VOTE: Giggs

Why has nobody responded to this?

Declan's sliding out of scum territory, but you can't just disregard this.

[Name User]

Aether seems to be counting on his idiocy protecting him since a mislynch today leads to LYLO D3. We're lynching him at deadline if no better case emerges. I'm in, the deliberate WIFOM actually removes some of my doubt about the purpose of it for me.

Been re-reading through the thread and I've decided that Aether is obvious town. Declan trying to push through a mislynch on an obvious townie and setting up an out for when he flips town at the same time is... exactly what I would expect of scum to do.

I can see Aether being town, but obvious town? He's playing the exact same thing as last time, and Declan makes an excellent point, what the hell?

Venmar ty for answering my questions.

Those answers deserve a thank you?

Been re-reading through the thread and I've decided that Aether is obvious town.

Why?[/quote]

Because he is scum. With Dragon and Fitz.

Are you wrong on purpose or by nature?

How can you not see it Fitz?
Because you're tunneling AP?
Stop it.

[Name User]

Disregarding page 32 except

Here's where I see where we are: regardless of individual people's individual reads, which are wildly different in many cases, I can divide the players up into a few categories which make it easy for me to think about them strategically.

Lurkers/noncontributors: Name User, Venmar, LastSurvivor. To varying degrees these three players don't have much to say very often at all. This is more an observation about their FREQUENCY of appearing in the thread and less a value judgement on their posts that they have made. In my experience, this style of play is typical of a disinterested vanilla townie or a scaredyscum, who is afraid of slipping up if they say/participate too much. Given that there are 9 players (plus me) and 3 scum, and 3 players in this sub group, it is likely there is ONE SCUM in this lurkpool. Order of my vibe: scummiest Venmar, name user, LastSurvivor most likely town

Completely agree.

Dumbasses: OmoftheNom and Aether. If we weren't in crunch time already due to sad developments we can't take back, I'd be delighted to policy lynch either of these two, preferably Aether. But there is too much WIFOM here to make any call on these two. The good news for the town's win condition is they will just keep slapping each other and mostly stay out of the way. These two will probably get re-categorized for Day 3.

Except now Om is confirmed town.

Tryhards: This is not an insult (although I used it that way at AP earlier when he was just all about lynching a name any name). Fitz and AP. Both are trying to build cases, both have points that sway me, and both have points and occassional bursts of activity that I don't feel very good about. Each has established connections that especially in the case of AP I have talked about in previous posts. Either COULD be scum, my game-long suspicion has been on AP, and I still feel Fitz is more likely to be town, except under one condition I will discuss below. AP has stepped up his explanations for his FoSs, which isn't a scumtell, he clearly just realized that his original style was losing traction, so either way he had to up his game.

But Fitz's wall-posting verbosity is anti-town.

Lynchable, likely scum: Disturbed and Nova Dragon. Both of these players have managed to give a general feeling of scumminess to most of us at most points in the game. Mitigating Nova's scumminess for some people is how he reacted during pseudo-twilight, when his posts were pretty resigned in nature. This only slightly changes the fact that we intended to lynch him, and was saved by a technicality. We benefit from a ND lynch in that if he does flip town, Fitz is practically 100% cleared; why would scum have brought up the voting technicality if there was s successful town lynch? If ND were to flip scum, Fitz is quite damned although not as conclusively as he is cleared by a ND town flip.

Okay, Fitz is town anti-town, because I doubt Nova is scum.

We need to narrow our focus to these two players in my opinion (unless there is a STRONG appetite for an Aether policy lynch/roll of the dice? Didn't think so....) Let's disucss whether the gain from lynching Nova pays off, and whether a Nova scumflip means the hider should hide behind Fitz. If we cannot come to a consensus on a solid benefit from lynching NovaDragon, we should each post a read with a reason on Disturbed. Of course a few people will sheep a wagon on Disturbed, which is at their own peril. My own feeling is both could well be scum (together) and we aren't really going wrong lynching either.

So really just Nova for me.
An in all a very good post Declan.

So basically everyone who isn't you fits into a demeaning or scummy category? Okay, that works.
I've provided reasons for my reads and done more extensive reasons for my Aether read, yet you seem to be fine with discrediting all that and my play in general as me being a dumbass so you don't have to respond to it.

Because you're being a fucking baby fighting with someone like him.
Also, I've always felt kind of weird analyzing myself in my posts, not sure if that's scummy.

[Name User]

EDIT: Went out for a while, sorry for the wait.

Major FOS to Aether who liked AP's Post 775 enough to ~vote me for "a very, very good point" despite no points really being made. That and AP's statement that Aether was the best place for a vote while never actually voting him WHEN Aether had teh largest wagon going at that point. Since AP is so keen on wagon's that have substance to them, why would he not vote the "best place for a vote" and instead remains voteless for over two gamepages (16 posts of shich are his).[?]

I would like an answer to this question.

MR PIDGEON SIR

I don't agree with OmNom. Scum don't always just give up after being lynched, it can be in a scums best interest to cause havoc and chaos, especially in a situation where they might not have been legitimately lynched, like when Nova was "lynched". Nova might be a bit townier, but not super obvious town some of you might be making him out to be.

Hmm? Who's doing that?

And let's just stare at this for a while:

Disturbed is probably town btw.. i smell no fakeness in what he has been saying, it feels genuine.

[Name User]

Well Im not 100% buying the not scum part. My play today was so obviously hider. Ive been talking about it since D1 and all but ignoring Om except to try and compromise with him. So obvious.
Anyways, Fos Venmar.

Obvious to you because you're hider, not to anyone else.
And about damn time with that Fos

Okay this means my town read on Declan would be based on nothing, so bye bye to that townread.

AP, why you no be scum??

Unvote: AngryPidgeon
Vote: Declan_giggs

Down to my last scum-read, here. Before anyone asks, I'm not quite convinced Fitz is scum. I think objectively speaking, if you look at his case against AP, it's very solid and the only reason it wasn't good is because AP was the Hider. Which no one could have known (unless AP breadcrumbed, which he may have because Nova somehow figured it out).

I don't think I need to point it out.

Om, the possibility of Declan being hider is not the only thing that makes him towny, or at least not scummy.

But maybe not. I'll know when somebody acknowledges my vote on him I had.

[Name User]

Honestly, Venmar is still prob-town. The fact he made a post w/o unvoting me after my claim is a towntell IMO.

I thin k Im still happy with my vote. Not much time left. I may be willing to compromise on Dragon or Fitz for deadline related reasons.

Every time I start to think LS is town, he posts something scummy.

Specifically what? #904?

I actually think Last survivor might be the best vote right now. I can't find a singleb town looking post on his iso.

But since you didn't point to any examples of scum looking posts, I'm assuming you can't find any of those either. I will wait diligently for you to prove me wrong.

Me too.
---------------

Ven is still too hard to tell. While he has mostly voted townies (Om, AP, Director, Me... Especially me), 'unknowingly' dropped the hammer on me, and has been spewing some pretty lame stuff lately... His style and reasoning have actually seemed town oriented. I have a lean toward scum, but it isn't very strong, say 60-40.

Town oriented? How?

Ya, like NU opened by calling people unbearable and calling them good votes.

VOTE: MattP
Unbearable, as well as Aether and Nom.

Where do I call anything a good vote?

DECLAN ANSWER MY QUESTION PLEASE

[Name User]

Also I'm surprised AP told us who he's going to hide behind. Newb question: Is this common practice?

[Name User]

I'm not sure what to say about Lastsurvivor's question to me, other than I thought it was rhetorical.

NU, were you not calling Mattp and the other unbearables by
1. Mentioning only them in your opening post
2. Voting one of them with no other reason provided

Why did you feel the need to respond to me pointing it out?
Read on last survivor and giggs?

Because you were putting words in my mouth. Yes I said they were unbearable, but this was basically an RV, iirc the first 4 pages were full of useless crap by the time I got here.
Last Survivor: Null. Haven't really been paying much attention to him. (By the way, LS, I thought your avatar was a chair until I looked closely at it. )
Giggs: Town. It's a weak read, because I did think he was scum for a significant amount of time, he's not in any way cleared, but that's my opinion at this moment.

Callinf them good votes**

I didn't do that.

i dont see one dircted at me. Is it in a different post?

Please respond to my vote on you.

Well, you are dead. Either you get NK'd tonight (not actually happening) or you are getting lynched because you are guilty.

Om will likely die tonight, which sucks, but hopefully there will only be 1 unconfirmed scum left.

Why do you think Declan won't get killed and Om will?

[Name User]

We're in twilight right? Where's Techno?

[Name User]

How is it possible for Venmar to be town?

How?

[Name User]

That was real short-like.

Alright. I'm cringing at the fact I missed the entire day.
I'm doubting Giggs will flip town, so no need to worry about that.
And we're lynching Aether tomorrow.

AP, why'd you decide to hide behind LS? I'm having trouble understanding that.

[Name User]

^ Glad we got that out of the way.
VOTE: Aether

[Name User]

You people were up early.

[Name User]

Well, what do you know.
We know what happens now then.
VOTE: Nova Dragon

Hopefully I'll be back later today.

[Name User]

I would have the possible advantage that you thought I was town anyway - so boom, bam, done.
NU would have the possible advantage to try to make the above argument for why I would be scum.

Except that's not really an advantage, because Venmar had already said he would have preferred to lynch me rather than Aether, and considering he didn't really think things through it would be a lot easier for you to have voted him.
That would be my advantage for killing Venmar instead of Om. It would be a lot easier for Nova-town to convince Venmar than to convince Om.
What advantage would Nova have? I'm not really sure. He could have done it to create a WIFOM of me, but I'm surprised he didn't point it out.

[Name User]

Also Nova, please fix your vote tags.

[Name User]

PEDIT: I went out for a bit, sorry for the break.

Case on me?:
*Lurked throughout the game, to varying levels, but it was still a lot of lurking.
*My first vote on Giggs was sheepish and could have been for early town-cred.
*After voting Om day 1 (and never making it clear why) I left my vote on it and hand-waved it away when asked why.
*Defended Nova in 491, possible buddying.
*Flip-flop on whether or not havingfitz is tunneling AP, possibly for buddying.
*Seem to attempt a distraction by asking AP something even though he's already confirmed town at 881
*Continuously suggested Venmar was scummy without ever putting a formal case on him.
*Lurked so badly that I missed an entire day.
*Quickly hammered on Aether, maybe should have waited for more discussion.

(Case on Nova coming up next.)

[Name User]

I've had a real long day. I don't think I can make a proper case on Nova.
Let me get a good night's sleep.

[Name User]

Please don't hammer just yet Om.

I'm here.

[Name User]

15 hours! I messed up bad.
For whatever reason I keep getting logged out when I try to multiquote, so excuse this but I need to get this through:

post 153: Starts off by saying that the director's response to Matt's vote on him is scummy, but agrees that Matt himself is being scummy.
Then says the team is director/matt, and

maybe

me. Making sure to not take too strong a stand.

[Name User]

post 457, backtracks on whether or not he's trying to discredit AP. (Do you really believe he's surprised that AP is saying he's trying to discredit AP?)

[Name User]

post 525, tries to diminish his awkwardness by calling himself a VI. (Okay, seems kind of legit, actually.) But then he uses an appeal to ridicule right in the next post.

post 622, says he was "furious" when he was supposedly lynched, even though that's not my impression from reading that post.

Then he begins to see that AP is turning into a town-leader, so he tries to gradually backtrack. "AP is 50/50... AP is 70/30..."

[Name User]

Poop.
Disregard that post 622 crap.

[Name User]

Sadly, that's all I got.

Apart from his AP rivalry thing, the guy has been very careful about leaving big red marks anywhere. (One last thing, I guess, is that he made sure to tell us exactly why he was voting Aether, even though that's something that shouldn't really need explaining.)
Om, I can totally understand you hammering me, regrettably.

Just let me respond to his case on me.

[Name User]

I'll change my vote for a Venmar or a Declan wagon.

So he vote's Om, then openly admits that he will bus his partner (or lynch a townie)

Openly admit? Openly admitting would be if I was scum, people knew I was scum, and then I said that I'm going to lynch my partner/the townguy. Your argument only works if those things are true.

Fitz seems to be town, because I agree with most of his reasoning. NovaDragon is just unlucky town.

Somebody convince me that Declan is scum.

He want's to bus, so he's trying to get someone else to make a good argument... Also, notice the mention that I am "unlucky town".

Because I saw nothing scummy about your posts. If you're not scummy then you have to be town, right? Like I said later, unlucky null would have been better, because just because you're not scummy doesn't make you town. Unfortunate wordchoice on my part.
My last comment was trying to get someone to make an actual case on Declan. I was only going with my gut, and it wasn't that strong, I saw that there were others who also said he was kind of scummy, so I wanted to get some feedback that would maybe make sense.

If I'm hider I'm hiding behind Declan

"If I'm hider"... which he isn't, and "behind Declan"... because why not talk the real hider into hiding behind NU's scum-partner to "find" scum, take care of hider, and still appear town.

We were all doing, don't you remember? That doesn't make any of the others who posted who they were hypothetically hiding behind scum, and it doesn't make me scum.
I wasn't trying to influence the hider, (would have been very surprised if he'd listened to me.) I was just participating.

In post 561, Name User wrote:Oh, and by the way Om, I didn't really suspect you by the end of day 1, I just never changed my vote.
You said this looked town. Why?

In post 563, Name User wrote:NovaDragon is just unlucky town.
What events or statements constituted this town read at the time you declared it?
Hmm, not a town read. "Unlucky null" would have been a better word-choice. I meant that I felt the wagon on Nova was unjustified, there was nothing scummy about him in my opinion.

Reads list:
Om: I'd like to think is town, but continued, fruitless bickering with Aether is bothering me.
Nova: Nothing scummy.
AngryPidgeon: Angry! Towny town-asset.
Declan giggs: Scum.
Distrubed One: Lurky scum.
Aether: Most anti-town player in game. Won't be playing any games with this guy in the near future.
havingfitz: Walls of text and a slight smartass, but probtown.
Last survivor: Nothing scummy.
Venmar: Puzzling and lurky, making him scummy.

So, Giggs is scum, and there's scum in Venmar, Aether, Disturbed One. I'm still contemplating on Om.

Several things here... First, despite his L-2 vote on Om, he claims to "not really suspect him", all the while, still having mentioned that he is good with a bus on giggs. Second, NOW he is calling me "unlucky null". So he was calling me town at first, and then flipped to call me null when he didn't want to make me look

too

town. Also, here's the strong bus... the strongest on Declan, and a second bus on his other partner. Notice he also has his fail-safe read on Venmar (probably hoping for a lynch on him later).

L-2 isn't that big of a deal.
Being scum, why would I not want to make you look too town? Do you really think "null" or "town" wording is going to get town to change their mind about you?
I didn't have a fail-safe on Venmar. He was acting scummy.
I didn't pick Giggs and Disturbed because they were my partners, I picked them because they were scum. (This point, even if true by the way, doesn't really matter for Om because we both said the two of them were scummy. One of us genuinely and the other as a bus. Why do you include this, then?)

Declan says: I played along with the everybody say their hider target thing, but it was a horribly scumtacular idea in truth and NOT the best strategy for the town to benefit from the hider role (not that we had time for a better strategy with the rush to lynch Dragon). AP also tried to open the door to me to "claim hider" (post 524) then lynch me when the real hider counterclaims. Scummy.

AP ask: Declan, why would that plan work for me?
1. Why would you be so dumb as to fake claim hider for any reason ever? Why would I think I could get you to fake claim hider?
2. Geting you lynched for fake claiming (AND THEREFORE BEING SCUM SINCE THAT IS THE ONLY FEASIBLE TIME YOU WOULD DO THAT) is scummy how? Even if I were retarded enough to think I could get you to fakeclaim as town?

Best I've seen so far, and that's why
VOTE: Giggs

He got his bus vote finally

Look at Giggs post. Was that not scummy? Read what your partner actually wrote. His biggest scumslip was right here.

Okay, I'd like to see him post something good, actually.
UNVOTE: Declan_Giggs
VOTE: Disturbed One

And immediately removed because it was time to bus his other partner or risk losing townie points.

Because it was time to lynch scum. (Or risk losing townie points is right, though.)

Declan says: I played along with the everybody say their hider target thing, but it was a horribly scumtacular idea in truth and NOT the best strategy for the town to benefit from the hider role (not that we had time for a better strategy with the rush to lynch Dragon). AP also tried to open the door to me to "claim hider" (post 524) then lynch me when the real hider counterclaims. Scummy.

AP ask: Declan, why would that plan work for me?
1. Why would you be so dumb as to fake claim hider for any reason ever? Why would I think I could get you to fake claim hider?
2. Geting you lynched for fake claiming (AND THEREFORE BEING SCUM SINCE THAT IS THE ONLY FEASIBLE TIME YOU WOULD DO THAT) is scummy how? Even if I were retarded enough to think I could get you to fakeclaim as town?

Best I've seen so far, and that's why
VOTE: Giggs

Why has nobody responded to this?

Declan's sliding out of scum territory, but you can't just disregard this.

Despite his vote on Disturbed, he still REALLY wants to lynch Declan. I think he is actually trying to save Disturbed at this point, which is understandable until he realizes that it is fruitless... and then he does this...

Aether seems to be counting on his idiocy protecting him since a mislynch today leads to LYLO D3. We're lynching him at deadline if no better case emerges. I'm in, the deliberate WIFOM actually removes some of my doubt about the purpose of it for me.

Been re-reading through the thread and I've decided that Aether is obvious town. Declan trying to push through a mislynch on an obvious townie and setting up an out for when he flips town at the same time is... exactly what I would expect of scum to do.

I can see Aether being town, but obvious town? He's playing the exact same thing as last time, and Declan makes an excellent point, what the hell?

... Back-pedaling! He realizes that he needs to do some back-pedaling so that he doesn't lose both partners.

If I really wanted to bus Declan I wouldn't have said he was sliding out of scum territory.
I can see that back-pedaling thing being there. This and that first quote you had (The one I haven't included) are your only good points so far.

Hopefully I'll continue later. I have to go.

[Name User]

Really surprised we won

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/2ZngMZE5h7cUE