Large Normal 224 | Endgame

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Zote the Mighty

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VOTE: NorwegianBoyEE

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So first you called the votes on Norwegian bad, and now you’re calling the ones on Layla bad because they should be on NorwegianboyEE instead?
Thought processes can change?
Explain, please.

And why are

you

not voting NorwegianboyEE for that matter, Tea?

Does it need to be?

I don't understand this response. What are you replying to?

[Dunnstral]

So first you called the votes on Norwegian bad, and now you’re calling the ones on Layla bad because they should be on NorwegianboyEE instead?
Thought processes can change?
Explain, please.

And why are

you

not voting NorwegianboyEE for that matter, Tea?

Does it need to be?

I don't understand this response. What are you replying to?

Why did you first call the votes on Norwegian bad, and then the ones on Layla bad?

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VOTE: Wake88

I don't like his positioning in nearly all of his posts

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VOTE: Wake88

I don't like his positioning in nearly all of his posts

You can read positioning as posturing, for the reason that I voted him

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That was at davesaz

With that said, I see the Wake wagon as being justified, and as long as there's nothing to really suggest that he's Town, then he's also a safe lynch for this first day.

I don't like this though

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Vorkuta is distracting from real wagons/avoiding them by fakeclaiming a n0 result in a normal game

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I'd prefer to lynch Wake or Vork

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Most people alive right now are town, I don't think that means anything

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Most people alive right now are town, I don't think that means anything

Sorry but what the heck does this post even mean

That looking at "wagon resistance" at a scale of 1-2 votes being moved when there are 18 players alive is very misguided, at worst

To be clearer, saying that Tea's wagon has been "deflating" isn't a reason to think that tea is scum

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And even if it was, one of those votes that moved off was Vorkuta anyway.

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The thing about Wake is that everyone seems to have no qualms about him being voted today. Which suggests mafia is ok with his wagon. And there’s no real counterwagon other than Vorkuta right now. That’s why i’m a bit reserved about voting him.

He's not defend-able. And, again, it's an 18 player setup

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So you think mafia gave up on him assuming he's one of their mafia buddies?

More like, there aren't any grounds to defend wake on right now. It would be too obvious

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If there are about 4-5 mafia (which i’m asduming is the case since this is a bigger game) i think they would be quite vocally opposed if anyone actually got a wagon started on scum today.

The general formula is where y is the number of players in the game and x is the number of mafia:

y=x+3(x)

3(x) is the way to calculate the number of town. So in an 18 player game, with a potential 3p, you're probably looking at 4 scum

4+3(4)=16 +1 for a 3p, then maybe 1 more town for good measure. But 5 scum would probably be too many.

The way I think of it:

9 players: 2 scum
13 players: 3 scum
17 players: 4 scum
21 players: 5 scum

I'm sure other people disagree, but they tend towards more players for 4/5 scum, not less, so with this being an 18 player game, it's pretty safe to assume 4 scum, or shenanigans

[Dunnstral]

^this guy deserves more scrutiny

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VOTE: PMysterious

I think we should move here, because it looks like he is posturing around Wake

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Why, if we're not lynching him?

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VOTE: Dunn
easy no resistance CFD wagon pls join

This vote is still on me

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Deadline restarted at 3 days, and trying to run up PM doesn't seem promising at all. What are we going to learn from that?
Sure if it flips scum I'll take it, but then what?

What?

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Not a Vorkuta lynch today

But look at them more tomorrow

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VOTE: Dunn
easy no resistance CFD wagon pls join

This vote is still on me

Yeah, he hasn't posted in like 3 days.

What the hell was that fish monger post. Why are you asking for claims if hes not even L-1 anymore?

When did I ask for claims?

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Oh, nevermind, you're talking to that guy (I interpreted fish monger as not a name)

Yeah, I agree that that is bad in the sense that it's not a good idea

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Luca blight seems really town to me, I'm not sure why people keep voting him

I don't ever remember davesaz being so hung up on "avoiding scumhunting" being a reason to scumread people like he is right now, or being concerned about a lack of info from a lynch (which is a honestly a pretty dumb reason to be against a wagon anyway)

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A little bit of research on my part shows that him pushing the avoiding scumhunting/scumreading that is normal for him, just that I haven't seen it or don't remember it

I think 753 is a bad post, what you quoted in 806 is valid though

I don't really like 806 overall though

Historically, I tend to scumread davesaz

Basically, I don't know, but I'm not set on him being scum, and it's probably incorrect to say that he doesn't do this as town. I don't know if he'd push the lack of info thing as town or what, but if PM is scum that does put Dave in a bad light IMO, especially if Wake is also town.

I'm pretty content to vote PM today

As for wake, I think he's scummy, but also acknowledge that he's kind of lynchbaity (It's been a while since I've seen him play though)

[Dunnstral]

That's L-1

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I'll let them speak

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Dunnstral]

Yeah so I was never actually a cop

I'm actually a Loyal Neighborizer,

Yeah, that's why we let other people speak first.

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I’m pretty sure I’d be informed if I was blocked given that this is a normal

You're wrong, you wouldn't be informed in a normal game

@FL: Tell me something.. how many scum victories did register in 2019? :twisted:

VOTE: FL

I'm tired of seeing you escape the noose with those over the top fake claims. You know as well as I that a Miller has to claim on D1 .. ALWAYS

P-edit: You do NOT get informed of a Roleblock in a Normal

This post looks like distancing

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What do you want us to do about it Wake?

[Dunnstral]

If you were neighborized by chemist last night, claim it

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VOTE: splitfarvle

As for Wake, 1062 looks like town to me

[Dunnstral]

I don't really like what Wake is doing here, though

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Day 1:

As said before I hate Day 1, and can't deal with all the speculation.

Once Day 2 begins I can actually play the game. Day 1 is just crazed paranoia and I can't deal with it, and if you want to lynch me for that and take a gamble go ahead.

Day 1 there's no weight to any wagon, and only rarely do you actually catch someone in a lie that early. So, yeah, I do lurk and stay in the background Day 1 in general, because that's my playstyle.

Day 3:

I would not mind one bit pressuring Luca Blight.

VOTE: Luca Blight

I’m not claiming.

That's not suspicious at all.

[Dunnstral]

Wake's scummier here.

a guilty.

ARE YOU SUICIDAL?

I'M TOWN.

I dunno this feels overreacty

As town id be like "ok wtf" and let it sit for a while and hope they go "sike"

Also this feels more like scum overreacting and trying to look like an enraged townie.
His first though is Dolly is a suicidal townie rather than the fact she could be scum?

To be fair, he never said "suicidal townie"

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Dolly and Wake are both doing the scum thing where they care much less about what's going on when someone else is being wagoned, and start making filler/troll posts instead of pushing the wagon they apparently believe in

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I didn't say there was something wrong with that, I'm saying you aren't doing that.

Can you please quote where you think you are pushing the wagon?

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Are you trying to stop the luca wagon for some weird reason?

This is loaded but yes, I think he's been pretty town, and a lot of the people on wagon are worth more scrutiny than Luca himself, pretty much everyone on it except NorwegianboyEE by my reckoning

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I'm not asking you whether you believe it, I'm asking you to quote posts that you think are you pushing the wagon

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I'm not the counter wagon, so that's irrelevant

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If you want that to be a credible threat, you should show evidence of yourself pushing the current wagon you are voting, like I've asked you to do twice now

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Let's go back to my original point.

Dolly and Wake are both doing the scum thing where they care much less about what's going on when someone else is being wagoned, and start making filler/troll posts instead of pushing the wagon they apparently believe in

I'm saying you are scummy because you're basically coasting with a vote on Luca, and that you seem to be posting for the sake of posting rather than pushing the wagon because you're comfy with what's going on right now

That's why I'm asking you to point out posts that are, in your opinion, you pushing this wagon

If you want that to be a credible threat, you should show evidence of yourself pushing the current wagon you are voting, like I've asked you to do twice now

I'm not threatening you. I'm not delusional, I know for sure that I don't have the pull in town that you seem to think I think I do.

I'm not sure what the purpose of the questions you keep coming up with are, then. What information were you trying to get out of 1181?

You seem to be asking me if I want to be lynched, my answer is no.

[Dunnstral]

If you were neighborized by chemist last night, claim it

He targeted scum

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Dolly

[Dunnstral]

Why can't Luca be scum here???

you would have realized that I have already town cleared 2 people today.

Wake & Luca ( Both the reaction to fake guilty and the Luca wagon dissolving).

[Dunnstral]

We make a dunnstral wagon (leaving mine alone because it's ain't good for us because we already have established I'm town) so we can sort that slot.

Ok.

We should work together and not against me.

Wow. I didn't think that scum trap would work that quick.

Scum!Dunn couldn't resist pointing that out.

I love this game.

Why is Dunnstral scum fypov?
And why is his reply to your post scummy? Isn’t it something anyone could have pointed out?

Well, I think his response is indicative of lurking. He just pops in quotes my posts with no comment of his own and poof is back in the shadows. ISO Dunn and let me know any obvtown posts he has made.

I don't think lurking was a valid response at the time the question was asked/you voted me

[Dunnstral]

Hot take: Menalque and Dolly have been hard defending each other while trying to look like they don't care about the other

[Dunnstral]

Kill Dolly Parton and Menalque, in that order

VOTE: Dolly Parton

dave, why did you hammer like that?

[Dunnstral]

The longer he's left alive the more lies he will post.

This kind of felt like distancing too, and a50 was distancing, and I'm looking at wake too, add him 3rd on the list

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The way Menalque pushed the jailkeeper claim itself yesterday was really gross

Would lynch today too

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We had a roleblocker and a jailkeeper acting at the same time, that's kind of interesting when thinking about game balance

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^Do you think Luca is town, and that A50 was not bussing?

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@Dave, Menalque

Norwegian claimed a roleblocking role - there was an additional kill at the end of night 1, but not at the end of night 2. Did you not think to wait for a vigilante claim on day 2, either targeting the JK target or being roleblocked by the JK?
Is that not just good play? Why did you guys rush the lynch?

[Dunnstral]

Well, this sucks.

Both A50 and I were on the Luca wagon, so obviously people are going to assume I'm Scum as well.

This post seems to assume that Luca is town, or am I wrong?

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N1 Gamma
N2 Tea

First of all, don't claim anything Tea, this isn't directed at you

At the end of yesterday, nobody thought to wait for Tea to come in and claim "actually, my kill was blocked" or for someone to say "I targeted Tea with the kill"

Reminder that the night 2 kill was the claimed town power role, and it's pretty safe to assume the vigilante didn't shoot there. Of course, you can assume that the vig is odd night/joat or something, but why rush the lynch to prevent that?

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I don't want to lynch wake anymore

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I wasn't assuming anything

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if your play is to the point where you're top wagon then claiming PR shouldn't save you unless it makes A LOT of sense mechanically

You didn't give it time to see if it to made sense mechanically, so you couldn't have known.

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I killed Billy N1 and A50 N3.

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By the way, I do think we could have proceeded without the vig claim

because it was an atrocious claim

No it wasn't

I mean if you thought I was wrong about norway then why didn't you do anything to try and stop his mislynch ?

Because I wasn't online

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I'm not asking you whether you believe it, I'm asking you to quote posts that you think are you pushing the wagon

Do you believe that Luca is town so much that you would be willing to be the counter wagon?

Reminder that this was rolefishing

[Dunnstral]

if you think it wasn't atrocious then it's on you to explain why it wasn't

No it isn't

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1408 still holds true

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Hot take: Menalque and Dolly have been hard defending each other while trying to look like they don't care about the other

I mean you were online after I posted my case and instead of saying anything about why norway was town you made this comment and didn't mention anything re: my case

so

I didn't read it, then next time I came back he was already dead and flipped, so I didn't bother. He wasn't under serious pressure when I posted though, then town turned into apes and scum did their thing

[Dunnstral]

I don't want to work with you

[Dunnstral]

what changed your read on wake?

You and dolly hopped right on that

I don't want to work with you

why

Because you're scum or driving town off a cliff

[Dunnstral]

I am talking to you

like I'm no longer convinced you're scum given the Norway!flip but if you assume town!me for a second then what's the impact of that on your wake read?

I don't trust Dolly

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do you agree that Luca is pretty much locktown now?

He's been obvious town all game, so yeah probably

[Dunnstral]

what does everyone think of hectic?

No clue

also of reundo?

Leaning town

[Dunnstral]

Why are you against lynching Wake now, Dunnstral?

Dolly is pretty blatantly scumsiding

My time is limited today, need to drive ~4 hours round trip to get my daughter from the airport, and my son has a concert. It's been fairly crazy for a couple of weeks...
I may finally have a handle on reading A50, pretty happy about that.
To distinguish between vig and sk I'd need to do a closer review of things. Both are hunting mafia but from different angles.

Scummy post IMO because you come in and start talking about vig/sk but it doesn't matter - you should be looking for mafia today, and maybe explain why you hammered when you did

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What happened to your "town clear" on Wake?

Good point

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I mean... I think it's theoretically possible Luca is scum vig that vigged A50 to stay clear... but I'd rather lynch Dolly?

Then who killed Gamma?

Mafia

[Dunnstral]

I mean... I think it's theoretically possible Luca is scum vig that vigged A50 to stay clear... but I'd rather lynch Dolly?

This is dumb though

[Dunnstral]

Vig's can't be scum aligned anymore in normals either

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I'm not saying I think davesaz' hammer was scummy, I just want him to explain why he did it, and why he didn't consider the jailkeeper/vigilante thing

I'm... not sure if I want to vote Menalque, I'll think about it

Votecount 1.16 is interesting. I don't think I trust Wake to the extent where I wouldn't want to lynch them if it were lylo

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I don't really think that will help us. With so many roles outted or dead already, it may not hurt us either. I'm generally not a big fan of claiming before I think it's time, put me down as neutral for this one - I won't push for or against it

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So The Final Scum:

Dave and Pisskop.

***Maybe Wake/Hectic.
****Prolly not Hectic
*****Wake maybe.

What’s your read on Menalque?

What’s your read on Menalque?

Spamming scum comes to mind tbh after a quick ISO skim.

I thought you scumread me?

[Dunnstral]

I haven't heard a reason to lynch Pisskop yet

[Dunnstral]

Maybe they forgot who was on their team and both assumed you were on it when they saw your posting?

[Dunnstral]

I think Wake is the ‘correct’ lynch today, tbh. Even if he’s Town he’s going to a liability later in the game. It would also give some valuable info regarding wagons this game.

I’m not sure why but I feel less inclined to lynch Dolly. I think it should either be Wake or Menalque for the chop today.

Here is a question for you.

Who do we need on the Wake or Menal wagons to get the most info out of these 2 lynches.

I don't understand what this is supposed to mean

[Dunnstral]

Even-Night Doc

Night 2 I picked Norwegian

On day 2 chemist claimed a guilty and claimed to have another shot of his ability, and we lynched scum off of it

On night 2, dolly claims to have protected Norwegian instead, and we have 4 ways of stopping the mafia kill with her claim

LYNCH HER.

[Dunnstral]

I have a guilty on Flavor Leaf

VOTE: FL

VOTE: Flavor

Just to get that out of the way.

More on my +s and -s

I felt it would be the best way to get acquainted coming in at the start of the day.

I didn't keep track of which exact posts I used for my points. I didn't rate every post but if it stood out to me (positive or negative) I updated the rating for that player.

She for sure saw it too

[Dunnstral]

doctor, jailkeeper target, jailkeeper roleblock, roleblocker

4 potential stoppings of the mafia nk, really?

[Dunnstral]

OK. I just checked and we're at evens right now, so it's to our advantage if you can shoot again on night 5

That being said, I do think she is fake claiming her role here to survive for even 1 more night

But yes, it does make sense to keep her around, even if we lynch her tomorrow anyway

[Dunnstral]

Menalque or Wave, probably

[Dunnstral]

Not feeling Pisskop?

What are the reasons to vote him?

[Dunnstral]

I'm up for lynching dolly at the start of the next day, it's still best to lynch somebody else today

[Dunnstral]

No '2' info to be had, if you will

[Dunnstral]

I forgot to unvote

UNVOTE: Dolly Parton

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Menalque

Yes, this one

[Dunnstral]

Jailkeeper. Roleblocks. Town. Investigatives.

[Dunnstral]

"taps head with nose"

[Dunnstral]

Doesn't sound like scum to me

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Dolly

[Dunnstral]

No claiming

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In other words, why is my claim less believable than the 2 VT claims?

Because the town investigative died night 2, and without your claim you would have already been lynched

[Dunnstral]

Make scum shoot me or Luca tonight if they want to have a chance to win.

Weird thing to say when you're a doctor. You're not planning on protecting Luca?

[Dunnstral]

This is quite the quandry.

I had trouble with Hectic's reaction to Dolly's (lack of) reaction to the protective soft. The way I remember it he seemed kinda wishy-washy on the lack of reaction, but also unwilling to either confirm or deny the soft. But then still willing to follow through with the lynch. I kinda agreed that Dolly's claimed targets were pretty oddball and the kind of things that scum would say to keep a fakeclaim alive. On the flip side of that, I tend to think err on the side of caution when working with a claimed doc, the scum kinda need to kill it eventually anyway. Don't know if this is scum squeezing through a lynch on the doc, or just town who doesn't take the same cautious approach that I do with claimed PRs.

Menalque has been doing a lot of pushing on stuff that has turned out to be wrong. Is that just town being wrong, or highly successful manipulation? I have a blind spot for scum who act really town and it has a tendency to lead to thrown games. :( I'd have to re-read a bunch of stuff to find out.

Dunn pushed so hard (relative to Dunn in general) on there being too many protectives but I don't remember if he just paid it lip service or if he acted on that push. If he really thought there were too many then he should have been there trying to get one of the claims lynched. It could be a fake protest though, the logic he was using to say too many protectives was suspect at best -- not all of them are active at once and with a half vig in play town benefits from an extra half protective. It's a nice cozy rocking chair in any case, I could totally see this as being scum.

Reundo has seemed quite reasonable pretty much all the time, but I'd need to re-read to see if it's an active reasonable or passive.

I was pushing dolly before she claimed a protective
Her claim was nonsensical, and she let the town power role die. She needed to go. I don't like your analysis here, it doesn't feel real

[Dunnstral]

I don't understand what 2455 is supposed to show.

Dolly replaced in for Vorkuta, I don't think it took me especially long to "notice" them

[Dunnstral]

Him doing nothing all game is prob scum indicative for him

Based on what?

[Dunnstral]

I'm voting menalque and davesaz

[Dunnstral]

Members of the scummy five being, Menalque, Wake, Dolly, Davesaz, Pisskop.

I reiterate, if four of those five players are Town then Town doesn't deserve to win this game.