Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Endgame

[scamper]

<3 this pl

VOTE: dats

[scamper]

<3 this pl

VOTE: dats

aaaaa two skitters?????

lol

[scamper]

pedit who are u even lol

<.<

[scamper]

VOTE: hem

[scamper]

oh gosh i just realized that scamper is an even more dedicated parody account than i initially realized >.>

i'm just a fan tbh

[scamper]

my vote was on gut but i continue to be okay with it

[scamper]

i have townpings on ydrasse and skitter

[scamper]

marci doesn't really have to reply to that message with "sh im lurking" as wolf, or rather, i dont think marci wolf opts to do so given that it might invite more pressure than she'd want

but ppl joke claim scum like all the time. Has marci never done that before or something?

thats not a joke scumclaim, tho...

[scamper]

i dont rly have a read on marci right now but i dont think debating her alignment currently is super useful, it should become obvious down the line regardless


the way hem reacted kinda gives the appearance of scum being annoyed at an early correct townread (admittedly presumptive on my part), and the questions about why dont feel like theyre aimed at actually sorting

[scamper]

Alas my friends, it is an unfortunate day.
For I have rolled scum.

i believe u tbh

[scamper]

which questions would those be mr scamper

the "why is marci town" one

i realize thats a standard response to a townread you dont see, but idk it feels off

[scamper]

gn skitter!

[scamper]

Oh whoops, I missed that the game had started already. Hi everybody, it's great to see you all again. Making my semi-yearly mafia appearance with a playerlist I'm pretty excited about.

Datisi, if you're scum, I'm gonna cry so please don't be scum kthx.

im p sure datisi would also cry if hes scum so that makes two of you

[scamper]

I don't like the phrasing of 108 it doesn't actually give me any idea why scamper thinks HEM is scum

do i need to explain myself on page 5?

110 is offensively non-offensive.

ok

114 also gave me a feel of trying to stir shit around Nero without actually directly getting involved.

im just disagreeing with a thing he said. like, if i wanted to "stir shit", id just call him scum

addendum I forgot to add, specifically I really dislike the trailing "..." on 114, that's what gives me the shit stirring vibe. like if you think Nero being wrong in 113 means something, say that, if you don't, what's the point of the post

thats just how i type...

[scamper]

the questions about why dont feel like theyre aimed at actually sorting

what makes you say they're not aimed at sorting? 103 directly lead to 105 which feels like useful content from fire

"why is x town" is like a stock response but i just didnt get the vibe he actually cared about the answer, the most we got was him weakly unaligning fire/ydra/marci, which is a not very helpful thing to draw a conclusion on in day 1 of a large game

[scamper]

I've decided Datisi is scum but we should let him live because he's cool

Datisi I'm putting you in the penalty box, you're gonna need to start wowing me with some better reads to get out

oh good shit guiltylion is town, i can stop completely shitposting now

This post feels pretty yucky. Not sure I buy into the idea you genuinely townread GL for pushing on you there, and it feels like an easy way to almost defuse the conflict involved. Now that I think about it, your response to me was kind of similar; it didn't strike me badly originally since my vote also had a jokey tone, but I'm surprised your original instinct was to crack a joke about it instead of (I wouldn't suspect as well as) pushing me on it.

im going to call ausuka town before skitter does

[scamper]

did you roll scum again my dear? <3

first of all, no

do you think it's likely i rand scum and then enter townreading you for no reason, after knowing you gave me a lot of shit for that when i was scum?

>.>

[scamper]

scamper u stink

sorry, i havent showered yet

[scamper]

So I'm alone in thinking FB could be scum here?

no

[scamper]

why?

because i want to read u correct before skitter, obv

you started off with what lookd like legitimate sorting and your questioning/suspicion of datisi looks genuine, i believe that you believe all the stuff youre saying about him (personally im still on the fence re: dats, but thats less important right now)

[scamper]

Marci is just projecting, she told me earlier she never showers, don't worry about her

lol

im just going to assume she means she takes baths instead

[scamper]

because i want to read u correct before skitter, obv

Do you guys have, like, some sort of anime rivalry or something

nah im just having fun

[scamper]

rescinding marci townread

datisi black hole of attention

theres one post she made thats a little pingy but idk still

[scamper]

i have townpings on ydrasse and skitter

why skitter? I dont think skitter is very town at this point

its just a ping but i felt the townreadon ydra was sufficiently out of the box wherenone of her posts were conventionally townie so scum would be less likely to give a townread on those posts knowing its more likely to get weird looks

[scamper]

Read 2 pages and fireisredsir can maybe be town, okay bye for awhile

uhm

[scamper]

i have townpings on ydrasse and skitter

why skitter? I dont think skitter is very town at this point

its just a ping but i felt the townreadon ydra was sufficiently out of the box wherenone of her posts were conventionally townie so scum would be less likely to give a townread on those posts knowing its more likely to get weird looks

eh

*shrug*

[scamper]

VOTE: fb

[scamper]

Can we talk about how guiltylion is maybe bringing more heat to this earlygame than I even expect from town!him?

???

[scamper]

Scummier than rand:

guiltylion, datisi, maybe deasvail

This plus vpb is exactly my suspect list lol

I also agree with most of the townreads but I will never trust scamper

<3 thats what i was waiting for

[scamper]

Also you forgot about me

confirmed scumbuddies!???!

[scamper]

now I want to see an elephant bus

elephants are known to dislike bussing though

[scamper]

scamper u stink

Marci town

do tell

[scamper]

scamper you changed your thoughts on me

first it was i was annoyed that the read was correct
now it was a stock response and thus scummy because it only had "weak conclusions"

what can a monkey do to find someone consistent in his life

i can hold both of those thoughts - the first was irt the post where you said fire calling marci town was a quick conclusion

so like, do u actually have thoughts on fireisredsirs explanation for his read on marci?

[scamper]

so like, do u actually have thoughts on fireisredsirs explanation for his read on marci?

you say it like i dont

if u said them, i missed it

[scamper]

i really like irrelephant he's showing originality

define this "originality"?

[scamper]

like i'm not out here saying GL is being overly negative, i don't think so, but i understand the pov that can think so and call it out post-by-post

i shld probably check before immediately replying

but im not sure thats inherently town? i think that kind of meta-based read is easy to fake. i thought gl's case on me was reachy (altho i am biased), but didnt have a problem with it insofar as all early game cases like that are going to be reachy

[scamper]

Towny: Ausuka, Relly, Marci, Ari

Scummy: HEM, skitter, scamper

y am i scummy?

[scamper]

like i'm not out here saying GL is being overly negative, i don't think so, but i understand the pov that can think so and call it out post-by-post

i shld probably check before immediately replying

but im not sure thats inherently town? i think that kind of meta-based read is easy to fake. i thought gl's case on me was reachy (altho i am biased), but didnt have a problem with it insofar as all early game cases like that are going to be reachy

i was still talking about irrelephant and not gl

i know thats what i mean - im sayng im not sure whether its a towny read from relly

[scamper]

Towny: Ausuka, Relly, Marci, Ari

Scummy: HEM, skitter, scamper

y am i scummy?

Ur interactions on pg14 seem off

go on...

[scamper]

i still think ausuka is obvtown


rereading vpb's questioning of her i kind of understand the thinking because questioning whether someones townread is real or not is a valid process. i think the fixation there is a little weird though b/c vibes/gut/etc are going to be a standard answer and i dont think falling back on that is a sign of a lack of a real thought process. i can see a town thinking that tho ig

[scamper]

@scamper do you think my hot take on guiltylion is hot garbage? If so @ me I'm, ready to argue over GL's 8 posts, I've got lots of work I need to procrastinate

i dont have a strong enough read to feel like arguing over it

[scamper]

yeah i think marci is more likely to be wolfing here

ironically i thought she was towny for very dumb reasons at this moment

[scamper]

i would like to see more from deasvail

wouldnt we all

[scamper]

yeah i think marci is more likely to be wolfing here

Was thinking the same

this is me tut-tutting you in disapproval

[scamper]

yeah i think marci is more likely to be wolfing here

Was thinking the same

this is me tut-tutting you in disapproval

I will never not scumread Marci tbh

i *get it* but i dont think what shes doing right now is scum-indicative even if its offputting

[scamper]

(personally im still on the fence re: dats, but thats less important right now)

scamper, is this "null" or "conflicting feelings"? if it's the latter, can you elaborate?

idk, more null. im more waiting to see what reads u have rather than going off some silly vibe thing about whether u seem happy or unhappy or anxious or w/e

[scamper]

@scamper who's scum? Get us out of this spinning wheel of townies townreading townies townily

im voting fb

no one else has stood out yet tbh

[scamper]

im not super worried about forcing a scumread in the first 24 hours of a 20 player game

[scamper]

scamper that's really reasonable ugh

i have that effect on people

[scamper]

(personally im still on the fence re: dats, but thats less important right now)

scamper, is this "null" or "conflicting feelings"? if it's the latter, can you elaborate?

idk, more null. im more waiting to see what reads u have rather than going off some silly vibe thing about whether u seem happy or unhappy or anxious or w/e

Datisi posted some reads. What did you think of those?

if u mean the ones from 237, i thought they were ok early game thoughts but theres been a lot since then and as far i can tell his thoughts havent updated

[scamper]

i think if ur getting frustrated with people take a breather rather than making more personal attacks

[scamper]

thats in general and not aimed at anyyone in specific. try to play nice here

[scamper]

Yeah.. I'm with skitter on this, maybe joining was a bad call. Also forgot how much I hate being called a fluffposter. Like that's not wrong, but >:(. It's always my starting point as I'm reading along and personally helps me as a bookmark of where I've either last started to have some vibes, or I've had nothing at all. I also just wanna play with my friends :'(

i think some of it was the initial hype but fwiw i'm going to be curtailing my posting so the game thread doesnt become unmanageable. we dont need a 100 page day 1 and atp id rather hear more from you/dv/dunn/skitter/gl/eiralox/juice than other people. thats like 33% of the game who havent said enough for a strong read on them. and thats fine since the game isnt even 24 hours old but we dont need to make the game unplayable.


so maybe the more active people can take it easy rather than constant realtiming on the same thing again and again

[scamper]

is that actually nasty- i largely held back

im aware im in a pretty bad mood so it might seem nastier than how i meant it, but also im genuinely frustrated with this game.

i dont want to deal with this right now but marci please manage ur emotions and if the game is frustrating u step away. i was easily able to take advantage of you getting tilted in 2276 and it was a massive benefit to scum, i dont want that repeating in this game seeing as i am town this game. i may have been scum that game but my advice to you on how to deal with feeling about the game and stuff was sincere.

all of that is to say is being like this is unhelpful. log off. take a breather.

[scamper]

no you didn't ask to be insulted and you didn't deserve to be insulted in the way that you were insulted. That's not what I am saying at all.

from her POV, you said

"I feel like Marci town here is more likely to give a tonally aggressive response? like "stupid asusuka i dont have green hair" or something. she feels slightly uncomfortable"

and she thought you meant town!marci would be more mean/aggro to you; so um she went super aggro on you.

like one insult is obviously more hurtful than another insult but I don't think she can tell the difference[or at least I hope she can't >.>]

I'm sorry but I can only repeat to you that there is context to this you do not understand. If you need clarification, message me postgame. I won't escalate this any further in the game thread and hopefully this will be my last post on the subject. Goodnight.

Ausuka, I just want to say: I enjoy your presence in games. I appreciate you. Hopefully things are less heated tomorrow. Let's talk then.

[scamper]

deas town nice let's go

y is that post townie?

[scamper]

Also forgot how much I hate being called a fluffposter. Like that's not wrong, but >:(

i think this is likely to be a genuine emotion that you can only have if you're town. you won't hate being called a fluffposter as scum.
im just making a bet that it isn't likely he's using it as a way to diffuse suspicions because there isn't any. it's not like he's skimping out on reads either so i doubt it's delaying tactic.

*they

[scamper]

hi skidder!

instead of catching up maybe just read the last 4-5 pages and give thoughts?

[scamper]

not sure i understand marci/ausuka but i think it's probably tvt
750 is a townpost, and i'm not sure ausuka gets this worked up as scum?
(also lowkey uncomfortable to read on p31)
(as i wrote this the bizarre thought of svs crossed my mind but i don't really think that's a thing here)

i think their last game would be relevant to understand the context but rather than explaining the details because that would take a bunch of time ill just say i agree its tvt

[scamper]

oh i thought of one more thing: read firebringers iso and tell me what u think?

[scamper]

scamper, let me into your head a bit, why did you feel compelled to respond to my case on you? I was sharing that mainly for skitter's benefit, but I didn't try to engage with you in the post and if you're town and I'm wrong I'd expect you to understand it's pretty early game reasoning. Are you normally a defensive player as town? Do you have prior town games where you decided to reply point by point defending against an early case like this? I don't feel like you're trying to really sort me with this reply either, so it just kinda feels like a defensive post for ?? reason, help me fill in the blank

why would i not respond to a case on me even if it's early game reasons? i dont, like, care that u were pushing me there in terms of what it means for ur alignment but im not just going to let that stuff slide

[scamper]

@scamper i shall so long as it is noted that i'm quite awful at reading him so idk if i'll manage to get anything out of that

o i thought you could read him

[scamper]

why would i not respond to a case on me even if it's early game reasons? i dont, like, care that u were pushing me there in terms of what it means for ur alignment but im not just going to let that stuff slide

is your goal to help me read you or is it to ensure that no one else agrees with me about you?

i'm just making conversation

[scamper]

@scamper i shall so long as it is noted that i'm quite awful at reading him so idk if i'll manage to get anything out of that

o i thought you could read him

no, i can't really

nvm then ig

[scamper]

scamper u stink

Marci town

do tell

how is this post different in your mind than HEM's 103 that you took issue with in 148?

because he quoted a post that seemed quite obviously nai. his response led me to believe it was a non-serious comment, but it felt worth interrogating because sometimes scum gives manufactured townreads for reasons that dont make sense

i didnt necessarily see a real followthrough from hem but also ive kind of moved on from that

[scamper]

no you didn't ask to be insulted and you didn't deserve to be insulted in the way that you were insulted. That's not what I am saying at all.

from her POV, you said

"I feel like Marci town here is more likely to give a tonally aggressive response? like "stupid asusuka i dont have green hair" or something. she feels slightly uncomfortable"

and she thought you meant town!marci would be more mean/aggro to you; so um she went super aggro on you.

like one insult is obviously more hurtful than another insult but I don't think she can tell the difference[or at least I hope she can't >.>]

I'm sorry but I can only repeat to you that there is context to this you do not understand. If you need clarification, message me postgame. I won't escalate this any further in the game thread and hopefully this will be my last post on the subject. Goodnight.

Ausuka, I just want to say: I enjoy your presence in games. I appreciate you. Hopefully things are less heated tomorrow. Let's talk then.

<3

gm! (or good afternoon ig)

i dont have anything in specific i want to talk about rn which feels awkward

[scamper]

what do you wish you were doing today instead of whatever it is you are doing?

idk im playing mafia while pretending to do work

its pretty alright


--

i feel like some of the townreads being thrown around right now are a little too free, but maybe im just overly paranoid. i dont feel like elaborating on that at this time though

[scamper]

i dont have anything in specific i want to talk about rn which feels awkward

This happen to you as town sometimes? Any examples come to mind?

that was specifically toward ausuka in that i had wanted to mediate the conflict between her and marci but otherwise didnt have anything t talk to her about rn

i feel like some of the townreads being thrown around right now are a little too free,

Which reads bug you?

i dont feel like elaborating on that at this time though

my view of the game is still kind of incomplete - i dont think there is anyone who is overtly scummy, but i dont like assuming scum is all in the least active people. to that end i dont like to extent credit to someone for 'looking solvy' when without meta im going to ssume people have decent ranges. these are just sort of generalized thoughts. i still dont have a good picture of the game in my head yet

truth be told if theres no ~burning questions~ for me i will be lurking and rereading isos

[scamper]

Firebringer (5): Ydrasse, scamper, VP Baltar, Datisi, fireisredsir

Why is fire the leading wagon rn ?
I didnt really see anything so damning in his iso, and i thought his vote on me was a joke

my vote on him was a gut thing in that i felt he was trying to lean into the happy funtimes vibes a bit too much

i havent found a better place for it yet

[scamper]

VOTE: Irrelephant11

[scamper]

Pedit - also don't love scamper's elephant vote, so there's that

y not?

[scamper]

Pedit - also don't love scamper's elephant vote, so there's that

y not?

It's a naked voted on a very townie looking player. Outside being edgy, what are you hoping to achieve here?

why is irrelephant very townie?

do you think my play here as scum is being contrarian for no reason? i have about a dozen better ways to get townread

[scamper]

i will get to explaining the relly vote when i have time to do so, but i wanted to see the response i'd get from dropping that vote first rather than all-out casing him.

--

i will say this wrt datisi: i dont think the case against him is all that compelling. i think a lot of the arguments against him amount to "vibes seem awkward" and "too defensive", and i feel like i have seen town!tisi get accused of this all the time on day 1 of games. hell, ive done it against him myself as scum.

this might be ironic considering i literally just lost a game to scum!tisi, but in that game a lot of the reads he gave on day 1 in that game just made absolutely no sense, and i havent got that feeling from him here. i thought his vote on fb was entirely reasonable and there was a decent thought process behind it. the reads hes had so far have all *made sense* to me

i wuldnt say im exactly townreading him rn but im not interested in wagoning him

--

the rest of this stuff is unimportant unless you are the person i am talking to so feel free to skip it

Fwiw I tend to agree scamper voting relly is +town just because the push seems kind of flimsy. Even if it could attract positive attention, it seems risky to poke the bear. I'm not sure how scamper plays scum and it might be he just understands the game better or something but from what I could tell in the scum game I played with him, I think he was fairly careful and like manipulative, minimising risk, all that stuff?

i think scamper as a scum player is probably more likely to be organised and make sure their pushes look Sensible and Towny compared to town scamper who is presumably just vibing and trying to find scum

tbf in that scum game i voted crescent and datisi day 1 who were certainly not 'easy' pushes, altho i dont really remember why, a lot of the moves i make as scum are intuitive rather than calculated, i just do what makes sense to me in the moment

the push seems kind of flimsy

i scumread scamper for this reason tho so it's weird that you townread it

scamper's early push on me felt so persistent i was wondering why he wanted me to be scum so much and now it's fizzled

do u expect me to hold on strongly to a read i had in the first 24 hours of the game?

Scamper to give me a winning POE again

tbh on day 1 of a 20 player game that is a big ask, i would need 9-10 TRs and i have maybe half that i feel good about rn, not that id really expect a game to be that easy right when it starts. rn theres a lot of people im unsure on and thats not just the people who havent posted much. i will say that in a game like this, absent meta im going to assume people have a decent scum range so im not gunna give ppl credit just for "looking solvy" etc. that was a bit of what my remark earlier was about. its possible this game really is an "oops, no effort" scumteam, but mathematically its improbable and i dont like to play assuming that.

[scamper]

do u expect me to hold on strongly to a read i had in the first 24 hours of the game?

i expected you to come back to me when you felt like your vote is doing nothing which seems to me like that's where you were before voting irrelephant

u expect me to return to a gutread from the first 14 pages?

[scamper]

yeah. has your read changed about me?

i havent reread your iso yet

u are in the pile of people i am unsure about

[scamper]

yeah. has your read changed about me?

i havent reread your iso yet

u are in the pile of people i am unsure about

you went from trying hard to sort me to leaving me alone

so?

im in observation mode rn. im watching while picking at things i find interesting. ur just not that important to me, sorry

[scamper]

are you even thinking as you type your responses

you ask me why i find it scummy that you didn't get back to me
i answer why

and now you give me this clapback

i asked why u expect me to revisit u

as far as i can tell your expectation is that i should 'default' to a read i had earlier and interact with u more to try to 'solve' u. thats not how i am choosing to play the game rn. i vote wherever i feel is worthy of my attention and when the game is new and theres a lot of new information i am going to change my mind and move around, esp. when theres a lot of players. i have also stated my desire to limit my posting to not make the game unmanageable in length (im not doing great at it tho). as it is, my read on u was a gut based read that i decided to push when maybe 8 people in the game had posted, and u seemed the most awkward. its hardly something i felt strongly about, so i feel no obligation to continue pressuring u. id rather hang back and leave u to ur own devices at this point and read u based on waht u choose to do


this discussion seems eminently pointless so im just going to stop talking to you to avoid filling the thread with white noise, because it is definitely not helping me read u. if u think that makes me scum, i encourage u to push me.

[scamper]

oof that is not the response i was looking for

more votes on eiralox

from reading his past games i think his play so far is entirely nai

[scamper]

re: eiralox, my impression of him from looing at his other games is that hes slow to form reads and i wuld sort of expect him to struggle in a game like this regardless of alignment. i dont think the tone in response to being voted is inherently ai and hes kind of a predictable/default kill in a high posting game with more well known players.


i dont think the reasons given for him being scum are, like, especially damning but wouldnt be shocked if he was scum, its just not that interesting to me rn. either he starts contributing eventually or he doesnt and he dies.

[scamper]

Elephant is asking consistent questions and pushing datisi reasonably seriously, which is probably unlikely to come from scum early game.

I think when you're scum with datisi, it's easier to just say townbin early and not risk his wrath.

I also don't get agenda vibes from elephant, like at all.

Why is he scummy?

ok so, revisiting this:

- i dont think "asking consistent questions" or "pushing reasonably seriously" are inherently towntells for anyone who has a decent amount of experience. i think those are bog standard things to fake. i also think being reasonable etc is more likely to come from scum, and i wuld dispute the notion that his push is even very serious, its kind of weak.

- i dont think the assumption of how scum will play around such and such a player is a good one, and ive seen datisi come under pressure from scum early in games. additionally, if a wagon against town!tisi looks viable id expect scum to be willing to join in. probably not all scum or even most of them, but at least some.

- agenda vibes is really vague and nonspecific. it doesnt actually mean anything to me.


the thing in games like this is i more or less expect people to put on a reasonable air of "looking townie". when i have been trying to put the names of people in the game in a list, no one leaps out as flaming obvscum. now, its possible scum are in the group of people who are null/havent said much (and id categorize that as FB/eira/juice/dunn - fb has been active but intentionally low content). in fact id guess theres probably at least 1 in there on pure probability. but id bet against it being the entire team, and that to me means i need to raise the bar for whats considered townie, i can't just give someone a pass for *looking* the part of a townie, i have to examine what they are actually saying and doing and ask myself if it makes sense or if its just trying to give the appearance of being productive. and relly felt like someone who is trying to look solvy but is thin on real depth of thought and is playing in a deliberately inoffensive fashion.

[scamper]

heres stuff i take issue with. quotes are mostly spoilered for readability.

Spoiler:

townier than rand:

skitter, ydrasse, vpb, scamper, fireisredsir, nero cain, HEM

Scummier than rand:

guiltylion, datisi, maybe deasvail

???:

gamma, deasvail, aristeia, marci, firebringer, xofelf, [people who haven't posted]



This is not a readslist anyone should sheep I'm mostly just organizing my jumbled thoughts before exiting the thread

firebringer and xofelf trading compliments on page 9 maybe not s/s?

giving an early list like this to me just feels like its trying to give the appearance of being "sorty" by having opinions down in thread, it reads as manufactured to me because the conclusions feel a bit too quick for where the game is at. giving off appearances versus having actual thoughts. the second quote is a minor point that might only make sense to me and no one else but in multiple games i have seen scum giving "not s/s" reads in the ealy game. it gives the appearance of being "solvy" without saying much at all, because ruling out a pair of players doesnt actually narrow down potential scumteams much, and you dont have to actually case someone. it also feels like a very thin and trivial thing to make an observation on.

--

Spoiler:

did you roll scum again my dear? <3

first of all, no

do you think it's likely i rand scum and then enter townreading you for no reason, after knowing you gave me a lot of shit for that when i was scum?

"How dare you scumread me for doing something that would be suboptimal for me as scum, I intentionally did that so you couldn't call me scum!" -Scumtisi

VOTE: Datisi

his anxiety levels went from 0 to 100 real quick and by 279, he's already invoking wifom as defense.
you said you'll be obvtown soon so we'll see!

Yeah this! First time I'm townreading HEM

the tone of the bolded line here is really gross and sets off buddying/pocketing vibes, like its just egging hem on in his datisi suspicion

--

if we examine relly's actual reasons for scumreading datisi they are here:

Spoiler:

oki

guiltylion town bc i was gonna murder him if he didn't call out my shitty entrance, but he DID so he is town for now

firebringer can be town (sorry :<) because his calling out vpbaltar feels Good because i am disliking him too currently

ari can maybe be town if she saw something that i also saw. ok no point in being vague when i didn't out too many reads, if she noticed that baltar not voting me is weird, then yeah +town

uhh i dislike baltar so far, idk if anyone has noticed

i had... like one post where i thought that nero was vibing with me. i don't remember which one. i can look for it later if needed.

nobody else made any kind of impression at the moment.

ok i'm sorta caught up ama

wow when I arrived at this post I mindmelded with 0% of it and agreed with like 4% of it (especially "nobody else has made any kind of impression at the moment" :barf:

If someone has to catch scum Datisi why not me?

VOTE: datisi

Like acting like I'm making this push because I don't understand how mafia works or something just feels super not genuine from Datisi here. I don't think my concern with handing GL an easy townread in a situation where it defuses tension between him and Datisi is super unreasonable or difficult to understand.

Agreed that Datisi got super defensive when "good point, you can be town" would have been a townier response

not me but ari has barely pushed you seriously and you already pulled out a wifom defense where i expected more goofing to be present

+1

aaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH

- i had a gut townread on ari for noticing something is up with baltar
- that's good, but i don't know EXACTLY what she saw. if she saw what i did, then that's even better townpings.
- write out the first part of the post
- realize that (1) scum!ari could probably deduce what i was looking for, based on what i said and what she said in thread so far; (2) even if she couldn't, scum!ari could probably fake her reasoning on baltar ANYWAY because she has seen us in games together way too many times
- realize that there is no opportunity to actually get the stronger townread on aristeia
- decide that the weaker, gut townread is still worth mentioning as a starting point and as a way to get the game going forward

This is my first time having the thought "maybe Datisi is too stressed to be scum? Aren't most of the possible scumteams in this playerlist a Good Time(tm) and shouldn't scumtisi therefore be enjoying himself a bit more?
But that's like wifom-ing myself into townreading Datisi when the only AI thing I feel like I know how to use on Datisi is whether he's having a good time [yes=town] [no=scum]

... I guess it's mostly true that he was just reiterating. My first read through I found his compulsion to repeatedly explain himself scummy, but maybe it was a necessity because of how much he was being interrogated on the same point. I still find it scummy how stressed he seemed (his protests that he was nought but "bored" notwithstanding)

what, you mean my "reaction test" on ari? i feel like i have made myself quite clear what my thought process was there, what part is giving you trouble?

ok but is anyone else scumreading datisi for posts like? Too nice. I felt the same about our first few interactions in our coalition game (my thought was "huh, very nice and polite") and while at that time it felt NAI I kind of think it might be scummy for Datisi specifically? Trying to rein in his tone sort of thing
I am in the tunnel and I'm not coming out!!

fire I think you maybe said you think datisi is town? Why?

I think datisi is scummy because I don't see him solving, really. I see him being defensive and tonally weird (like kinda all over the place, and then asserting he's "bored" which doesn't match his tone or what I would expect towntisi to feel in his first!! town game!! in forever!! if town. Compare to fireisredsir who's having a blast with the playerlist regardless of alignment)
I think he's focusing on weird things and just kinda flitting around trying to find places to look solvy instead of getting his hands dirty on things that actually matter/could be refuted

in summary the points are:

- relly disagreed with a post he made in the early game
- datisi got defensive when being accused
- he seems like hes not having a good time/is stressed
- too nice
- not solvy (which, by that point, i dont think is true)

none of these are...good reasons to actually all anyone scum? they're all tone/vibes stuff that doesnt actually try to examine any of datisis actual reasoning or solving. even the first post relly said he disagreed with, he never expanded on WHY he disagreed with it or what about that disagreement made him scum rather than who had different opinions. he accuses datisi of not solving but doesnt comment on any of the actual reads datisi has given, which makes me qusetion if hes actually really looking at datisis posts and thinking critically about them, or just making a vague accusation in line with popular sentiment and hoping the line sticks.

--

irrelephant (temporarily) backs off from his datisi scumread here:

it doesn't feel like he's trying to pump up his posts with extra emotion or extra thoughts

hm perceptive. I was really hoping to catch scumtisi D1 but maybe I'll just townlean him now and then vig him later out of paranoia

+townpoints to fire for the depth of this read on datisi

VOTE: aristeia

after just claiming he was tunneled in 563. but...this is a really weak reason to actually reverse a read? literally all fire says is datisis posts dont have extra emotion or thoughts, and somehow this is a "deep" read to relly? thats not analytical. its not even saying anything particularly meaningful. the swap here feels super fake and contrived.

--

now, here are some town reads relly has given:

Spoiler:

xofelf town

xofelf town

You and HEM both said this. What is compelling a TR there?

- Looking up what DeasVail's alignment was the last time they played together
- Stating the obvious t/t read of Ausuka & Marci in a way that would be hard to rescind
- Complaining about being read as a fluffposter while admitting it's true

pedit: HEM is locktown for like 3 day phases at least tbh

got him to get mad at me accidentally

I'm being bad and dumb for basing a townread off of the tone of this single post but like if you can imbue your scumposts with a feeling of "oops I found a townie and made him mad", I'd be impressed

also heya relly

hi! I think you're town because people scumread your entrance to the game in the same way I've seen people scumread you as town like 12 times

I don't have any strong scumreads except, like.... datisi? I sure hope the silent slots are scum

in the big picture i dont necessarily have an issue with him townreading these people. but the reasons for them all feel super contrived and fake. xofelf looking up a past game is not a towntell. giving a TvT read on a big fight in thread is not a towntell. the bit about admitting to being a fluffposter makwa literally no sense?? why is that towny? the townreads on ari and skitter are also incredibly bad and superficial and based on totally trivial things, which isnt really an approach that makes sense toward two players with decent scumranges. im not saying that ari/skitter should never be townread out of paranoia, but the reasoning for those reads is just bad to me.

I mean frick if Datisi is town who is even left to be scum??

Lion, Gamma, firebringer, marci??, Eiralox, Juice, Dunnstral oh okay there's more in this pile than I thought

and the way it adds up is that it feels like hes afraid to call anyone active scum, which to me comes across as a mindset of trying to play too carefully and not step on anyone's toes. which goes in line with scum that is trying to look town more than actually solve anyone

[scamper]

So anyway on Thursday evening I lost 4 days of work when my computer crashed. And then today I lost 6 hours of work when Microsoft PowerPoint crashed.

Trying my best to catch up on recent posting and my brain is becoming more and more like “no you can’t process these words you’re too bothered by work”

Am I dumb for thinking that Datisi expertly defusing my scumread on him is a reason to scumread him? Probably I’m dumb for thinking that. Not sure where I want my vote. Too emotionally tired about work. Okbye

that really sucks, imsorry

i feel, uh, awkward with my timing but dont feel obligated to respond right away. im not calling you lockscum but i have issues with stuff youve said so far. i dont have any scumreads i feel super confident on.

[scamper]

where im at rn:

Ausuka - town
scamper - radiant lodestar of towniness
Juice - null
Datisi - null
humaneatingmonkey - no clue
Aristeia - lean town
Firebringer - heart says lean town but my head cant justify him being higher than null
Gamma Emerald - town
Nero Cain - lean town
Eiralox - null
fireisredsir - lean scum
GuiltyLion - lean town
VP Baltar - no clue
marcistar - town
xofelf - lean town?
skitter30 - has been reasonable. which is not the same as towny. but i want to give her time.
Irrelephant11 - lean scum
ydrasse - town
Dunnstral - null
DeasVail - lean town

[scamper]

I townread all the talkative people and scumread the quiet ones. And I’m having trouble nailing people down in both categories

the thing is, i think that is categorically not true for me. i am trying to actually critically examine the people who have posted content to be readable by

fireisredsir - lean scum

do you mind explaining this one? I'd been feeling pretty good about fireisred townread today and I wanna see if you can knock it down a few pegs like you just did with Relly

also are you looking for outside thoughts on your Irrelephant case or should we wait for him to give it a real response

i think his push on eiralox is icky, and thats true regardless of eiralox's alignment

sure, i welcome thoughts. tell me im being a conf-biased dummy if you must

[scamper]

DeasVail - lean town

y?

i think the way he backed off on his scumread of you was towny because it felt like he was really evaluating your push back against him. i think the reason for his datisi townread in 994 makes sense to me. 1002 looks like genuine analysis to me. in general i find his thoughts on the game believable and he looks like hes authentically trying to scumhunt.

[scamper]

I sorta think that Eiralox might try harder if he was scum but I guess it's not impossible that he just nopes out of the thread.

its kinda hard to say without knowing his scum meta. i just think as it is its a boring wagon since flipping him has 0 accountability. if he keeps active lurking i would support policy flipping him but its still only been 2 rl days

[scamper]

Guiltylion my friend and buddy we only barely crossed the 48 hours of this game being live

yeah and? why is that reason for your vote to be a joke vote? you truly don't have any inklings of suspicion/scumread on anybody?

And even the game you referenced earlier of me being so town, I am a million percent sure I wasn't off to the races in 48 hours. Because I don't have a scum read or person I want to dig in on to vote. Am i not allowed to joke vote

Only person i had suspicion on earlier was VP Baltar for his earlier tone/vibe that seemed out of sync but he dropped for me awhile ago so I got no one im that suspicious of right now or want to do some digging on. If you want to talk about specific people we can but nothing is tickling my fancy.

Like you literally nailed 3 of the 4 scum by post 600 24 hours into the game so yeah I want that energy again here and you're not giving it

Obviously some town games will be better than others but you're not even trying yet and I'm asking you to try

my friend, if you think im scum because im not trying or doing anything please continue voting me.
If you are voting me and trying to argue with me to try to get engage me in the game. You are going to be left disappointed.

I understand you want me to do more. I will, at my pace and when the game gets me to that zone. You can't force it you are just going to get me mad and annoyed at you and then we will argue for pages eating up game space in which you could actually be doing something productive you want to do.

i know realistically this kind of response is nai but i didnt really get scumvibes from this

[scamper]

I probably didn't have better reads. I would have just said that.

can u give me some reads so i can copy them

FB scum. Scamper maybe scum (but I should actually read this elephant case). Ausuka maybe scum. Probably one in the super lurk squad or a deep wolf, you can pick your favorite there.

Game solve, lock it in.

these scum reads are so bad i want to say they must come from town

[scamper]

do u scumread me for reasons other than scumreading irrelephant?

[scamper]

do u scumread me for reasons other than scumreading irrelephant?

I haven't had a chance to iso you to articulate it to myself, but I haven't felt interested in much you've posted this game, and I can usually find something. I do think you're pushback on the Eira wagon was good though, so maybe I just need to spend more time directly involved with you.

But yeah, you're kinda wallpaper to me at this point, and that's not great since you've been posting somewhat regularly for dozens of pages.

sounds like a u problem and not a me problem. i have been deliberately a bit limited in my involvement but i think i should be readable as town anyway.

overall I guess my tl;dr is I think you are picking up on some valid impressions (not very logically rigorous reasoning, most of his reads are 'vibes' on more active players and don't hold up to real scrutiny), but then you're assuming that means he's scum putting on a front to appear amicable and townie rather than town not trying too hard and just being authentically vibey, and I don't know if I feel compelled to prefer the former explanation over the latter. I'm definitely more wary of Irrelephant now, and I think as the game narrows in focus and we start to have real data and associatives he'll absolutely need to flesh out his reads beyond what he's given, but I don't think he'd make a good wagon here yet, esp not over slots that aren't doing jack

but we may also have slightly different play styles in that I like to weed through the lolcat slots first and then try to sort the harder reads when we have more info, I don't trust my ability to nail a scummer with deep range on D1 and the consequences of getting that wrong are worse than getting limbait wrong

understood and recognized, its just that (imo) killing people just for not playing isnt likely to produce results better than random chance when theyre, like, super inactive. the only player i would really suggest is "conventionally scummy" is fb and even then im cold on the prospect of voting him.

[scamper]

sounds like a u problem and not a me problem. i have been deliberately a bit limited in my involvement but i think i should be readable as town anyway

What have you done that only comes from town you?

1289 and 1291, for one thing

but aside from that: while realistically the answer is "not a ton" because i try to minimize divergence in my play, ive been more focused on analyzing things this game rather than trying to look town like i would be as scum. i also dont ever try to intervene in the ausuka/marci feud here as scum, even if ultimately people conclude that its tvt letting it disrupt the thread as long as possible is pro-scum. i literally used marci overreacting to pressure in 2276 to win the game as scum which is why i was so sensitive to it here. as town im always going to be trying to clear slots i would otherwise be looking to eliminate as scum and i think thats evident in how im reading people here

[scamper]

I know you'll disagree with me and think its silly of me to even entertain the idea but what if he's just scum that couldn't maintain a push on me? I think I get shit pushed by scum fairly often. Like I just don't believe that he was honestly scumreading me for 243. 968 felt like a non sequitur and it was disappointing that he couldn't/wouldn't state these other reasons he had. I also really didn't like his complaint about me not engaging with elf more. They said their piece and they'd get back to me on their DV read and there wasn't really a need for me to continue to push there until they got back. So I thought that was a fairly silly comment to make.

Obviously, town do reset but de-escalation is a thing. I kinda think that town are more likely to be confident or more tunnely with their pushes so I'm not sure if I really buy into the "town are going to be more liely to reset." (I know you maybe aren't making that exact argument but its pretty close. Or are you saying that resetting is towny SPECIFICALLY for DV?) There wasn't going to be enough traction on me and DV would have to stich his neck out and I'm not sure if he'd do that.

I'll give it a look over at somepoint but in our last game where he pushed me as scum (we were both town) he didn't reset despite my pushback.

nah i dont think its silly, i mean its certainly possible im being overly generous in my read and thats why its only a lean. none of the stuff i said is, like, a hard towntell, i just havent felt the things you have felt. i think youre more bothered by him voting u than i am, for obvious reasons that i understand. comparing to your last game isnt necessarily valid because its possible he learned from it and is trying to be more conscientious. i think specifically the manner in which he reset felt real, not that resetting is itself inherently townie or w/e. ill give a look to the stuff youre talking about but i havent seen anything from dv that felt off to me

[scamper]

Falling behind, had some specific thoughts, and goals for people to iso to unblend them from everybody else tomorrow. I've got some brand new pain meds to try making existing be less garbage, and I'm hopeful I'll accomplish more then.

To keep me accountable as well as my own notes, I wanna iso:
scamper
Ausuka
fireisredsir
humaneatingmonkey

I also would love to hear more from Dunnstral as that's somebody I've played before so I have past gut to compare to.

is there a reason i am one of those names?

[scamper]

i have conflicting thoughts on firebringer. my first thought is that saying "i'm not into this game yet!" is very easy to do as scum. my second thought is that it utterly fucking sucks when you're not into the game yet and people are shitting on you for not being into the game. so i guess the two cancel out. sad.

agree on the first point, i just kinda feel like if he were scum hed feel more obligated to fake something. but thats a light read. im not really concerned with him slipping away the way hes playing now, if he continues to do nothing hell just die eventually.

Datisi - null

i feel like you said earlier that you had a null on me until i did stuff? in the previous post, you mention how irrel doesn't comment on any of the "actual reads" i've given... do you have any opinion on them?

i want to say i think uve been fine, im just being a little cautious bc of that micro, sorry

i already said i liked the read on firebringer u had where it was like, interact, notice suspicious thing, vote, because the thing you pointed out made sense to me at the time too and it was adding to suspicion on a player i suspected for gut reasons. i like 1346 just because its a more elaborate theory than anything you put out last game. i would lean toward it probably not being true just because day 1 team theories rarely are unless scum are playing *really* badly, but having those thoughts is +town. i thought a lot of gls stuff to start the game was weird/awkward but im trying to be more patient w/ ppl who suspect me so i just let that stuff pass. i kind of felt like hes improved since then but thats a vague feel-based read. i still dont know what to make of vp baltar really. i wildly disagree with most of the reads hes put out but idk if he plays this confrontational as scum

uh if you have anything in specific u want me to talk about lmk

[scamper]

hmm

[scamper]

do you have any thoughts on what me and/or scamper wrote about him

I don't think it's like a slam dunk but I am interested in seeing where this goes

to be clear i dont really think its a slam dunk either (im at like 40-50% confidence) and i mite have taken the wrong approach by just throwing the book at him rather than questioning him on the reads i found odd, but the game felt too static at that moment in time and i wasnt really satisfied with the leading wagons/pushes so i wanted to provide a different direction

[scamper]

his read on you doesn't make sense but he has a reason to fear scum!you from watching you win and you should know sometimes when you see someone play a good scum game and win, you then play a game with them and suddenly every freaking thing they do ends up looking "scummy" to you. wink wink wink

this is understandable but it doesnt really come thru in how hes talking about dats

[scamper]

his read on you doesn't make sense but he has a reason to fear scum!you from watching you win and you should know sometimes when you see someone play a good scum game and win, you then play a game with them and suddenly every freaking thing they do ends up looking "scummy" to you. wink wink wink

this is understandable but it doesnt really come thru in how hes talking about dats

yea that's a fair point but I do rather enjoy his playstyle its so refreshing compared to people who think they absolutely must be right when they tunnel someone

>.>

[scamper]

i think theres a reasonable probability of scum in the inactive slots, but as a cautionary tale i wuld like to share that in 2276 i encouraged suspicion on an inactive slot i had rolecopped as a friendly neighbor and baited town into hammering before a replacement was found that could have roleclaimed


the point of this is to say im not in a gambling mood rn. if we cant get content from any of the juice/eira/dunn slots in a few days im fine with policying one for the sake of making the game playable but lets not get hasty

[scamper]

[quote="In post 1437, Gamma Emerald"]xof and nero I think I'm willing to call town atp/quote]
why?

[scamper]

ydrasse nerfed by the mod

she was too powerful

doublevoters arent allowed under normal rules

[scamper]

VOTE: Datisi

What's up folks how's she cutting? Tell me when we win.
Working a late one tonight but I've already read the first couple of pages, ego so I can get back to this later.

y the vote?

[scamper]

i agree that replace outs are +scum after pressure especially in this environment
from modding newbie games, i recognized a pattern of people replacing out when it becomes too overwhelming to reassert yourself as town

i think juice siteflaked so that replace out is nai



however i want to

VOTE: ConManMick

because i did not like that first post at all


however, i want to note in doing so i still find relly sus and his responses on the last page did not really move the needle for me

[scamper]

I read the first 15ish pages last night when I requested the slot and a couple of folks are on my radar, off the top of my head joining in Datisi was most memorable of those so sent it there.

what do u mean "most memorable"?

[scamper]

Replacing skitter30. The deadline is still frozen.

):

[scamper]

scamper have we played together before

no

I'm not so sure I like the idea of a frozen deadline, we are already @ 60 pages and we'll only increase the pageage while waiting on reps. It just seems like the clock should be ticking still and then maybe if the reps need more time they can request it.

I'm kind of bored of this phase already.

fwiw i lagely agree with the sentiment of this - i think that extending the day toward infinity is never going to be protown as the game will ted toward bloat and apathy. i think the best thing to do is accept that you will always have imperfect information on day 1 and sometimes its necessary to consolidate even if its a wild guess, in order to move the game forward

im happy to see we have gotten replacements quickly. ill probably be stepping back to let the replacements get their bearings on the game but one they are all set i think we have more than enuf content to progress the game with

[scamper]

ngl, dannflor feels kind of townie to me on this past page,

but

i opened up the ISO of the slot before them (which was Eira apparently?) - before subbing in, just when i thought i may sub into that person - it was the only one i looked at - and i thought they were scummy so i'm a bit hesitant there.

okay starting to read the game, Post#4 (question: is there a way to link these?) i feel like is believable from fire.. i'm reading them as like the opposite of me, which, i have friends in my group irl who are like this and so i can see it as legitimate. i'm liking the energy of some people in early game, but there's sort of a bar/standard to weigh in "is this happy energy because they like being town like me" or not - so, i don't fully feel like i can regard it with a ton of weight.

i'm getting town feelings from Post#108 from scamper, because i feel like mafia doesn't have "gut feelings" obviously, as they know the answers, so someone saying they have a gut feeling must be either inherently townie or mafia pretending to be townie. this post makes me feel like scamper isn't mafia pretending to be townie specifically because it's not just a post on a gut feeling, it's a second conclusion from that gut in a way that makes me feel like the gut feeling was real.

similarly i'm really liking how humaneatingmonkey is getting into the game right away on P#116 by thinking of the game as teams and making associatives/connections as a whole - they seem solvey in an exploratory way.

Post#152 sounds a little manipulative/overly-knowledgeable to me from Ydresse - mostly because it's not framing something as a townie read, it's a direct "this is why you're town" that feels framed in an intentional way.

i've read 7 pages, i'm great =p my townreads so far are fire, scamper, humanmonkey. slight scumlean on ydresse, but not confident.

use the post tag with the number, no pound sign inside the tag. i edited ur post in the quote as an example

[scamper]

I read the first 15ish pages last night when I requested the slot and a couple of folks are on my radar, off the top of my head joining in Datisi was most memorable of those so sent it there.

what do u mean "most memorable"?

Literally just that I remembered thinking "yeah I want to vote that", I'll go back and get whatever it was that bothered me

My Datisi read I think is wrong for now and I'm gonna move my vote. Later stuff certainly appears to be working toward a solve. Page 28 interactions with FB aside but I thing ye all talked about that enough.

fwiw, i still want to know what bothered u even if u dont have the read anymore...

[scamper]

some quick bits on the new stuff:

- i think frogsterking is probably town
- im less decided on dannflor, he felt rather reactive tho ig thats to be expected when replacing into a slot and getting called scum right off the bat
- apart from the thing on dats, i didnt like conmanmicks 1714 bc it felt like he was just throwing out things to give the appearance of having opinions but with no visible reasoning its hard for me to believe a sub has that developed a view of the game, and it was all nonspecific
- i dont have any thoughts on obscure at this moment in time
- im still not seeing scum!gamma

[scamper]

im still not seeing scum!gamma

What do you see when you read Gamma's iso and what do you think motivates Gamma in this game?

i think shes hanging back and commenting/giving input on things that catch her attention. her analysis is brief but i can feel shes thinking abt things. shes not trying to take a big role or influence things too strongly and has been unbothered by pressure or the suggestion shes not doing enough.


i felt like she played fairly similarly in 2276 where i was scum and she was town. i dont think her playing in the background this game is scum-ai. even looking at the scum game from last year u mentioned, i would describe her play there as "performative" and i dont get the same feeling from her this game, at all.

[scamper]

Fair enough, do you have any thoughts on xo?

i had leaned them town when they had like 6 posts just on vibes, they made a post that was very waffly but it felt authentic in an indecisive townie way for someone who doesnt play mafia games that often and isnt used to the high volume. it kind of feels like they are operating at their own pace doing their own thing.

i get what ur saying about the iso posting feeling potentially performative, there was one post they had where i kind of worried it mite b writing words for the sake of writing words, but it was a minor ping and i otherwise havent been concerned. i may be biased just because they seem pleasant and its easy to townread people for being pleasant, but i think they are fine for now.

[scamper]

What are the cases for GL/relly?
I don’t think I care for the “Eiralox is RWSTFO scum” case as it’s presented rn

my read on relly is in 1149

despite the presentation i am not strongly confident in the read or anything and dont expect people to be convinced to lim him on day 1

[scamper]

Uhhh come again? 1149 is saying you’ll explain later

oh lol sorry i meant 1291, i just skimmed my own iso looking for a long post

[scamper]

Okay, is anyone here willing to townsend Ydrasse?

yes

[scamper]

Okay, is anyone here willing to townsend Ydrasse?

yes

How much?

And how biased are you because of likeability?

none, i think on play shes been towny for her. i think her play so far has been geared toward having fun and giving reads when they come to her rather than doing things to look town. a decent chunk of her reads in the early game resonated with me. i think even her lapse in motivation the last couple days is more likely to come from town feeling out of touch with the game.

[scamper]

hi ari!

[scamper]

i think the following are town, unordered
[nero, ydra, scamper, hem, skitter/obscure slot]

im ok with treating the following as town for now, but am not as confident, also unordered
[datisi, deasvail, xofelf, ausuka, maaaybe ari]

im feeling slightly more sociable at the moment, ama while it lasts or don't idc

what was the last thing u ate?

[scamper]

just finished eating some garlic bread like 5 min ago, was v good

nicw, i havent had garlic bread in ages

@scamper @Ydrasse

It would make it a lot easier to hit scum D1 if you can confirm there's an up to date list in your isos containing all of your town reads.

will do, but i want to sleep on things a bit first

[scamper]

I think townhunting is quite silly since there will always be more town in a game than scum so it's like handing yourself a participation trophy.

tbfh, im not really a 'townhunter' but i start from the baseline of assuming most people are trustworthy (b/c as u said theres always more town), until they give me reason to think otherwise

[scamper]

{ydrasse, ausuka, gamma emerald}
{frogsterking, marcistar, nero cain}
{aristeia, firebringer}
{deasvail, xofelf, guiltylion, datisi}

{hem, fireisredsir, obscure, vp baltar, dannflor}

{conmanmick, irrelephant}

i doubt my townreads are all perfect, because its near impossible to have perfect reads on day 1 of a 20 player game, and i doubt i managed to get the entire scumteam in 7 names. usually theres someone i end up being overly generous with my read, usually somewhere in the middle of my townreads. but i feel okay-ish with where im at for mid d1 of a large game.

[scamper]

Handshake

posting readslists together

[scamper]

there are like 2 votes u last i checked and enough people tr u that i doubt u go over today

[scamper]

[scamper]

*cracks knuckles*

ready to dive in today, only like, 10 extra pages behind!

since i forgot to give a proper greeting yesterday: hi obscure, welcome to MS! i hope u enjoy the game (:

this is probably a challenging game to start off with since its a large pl/high volume, lmk if u have any questions abt stuff

ooc, what are the games u play irl usually like?

[scamper]

*cracks knuckles*

ready to dive in today, only like, 10 extra pages behind!

since i forgot to give a proper greeting yesterday: hi obscure, welcome to MS! i hope u enjoy the game (:

this is probably a challenging game to start off with since its a large pl/high volume, lmk if u have any questions abt stuff

ooc, what are the games u play irl usually like?

@scamper thank you, i appreciate it! i like that i have a lot of time to catch up at the very least. i sort of like the.. lower intensity vibe? haha

for the irl games, we usually have a "captain/host" who will assign people roles (sometimes we'll just draw roles), then there will also be a cop, doctor, then just regular villagers. there's phases (day/night) but it's like, shutting your eyes during the night, during the day basically collectively deciding who we think is mafia. we don't play it super strictly, it's just for fun, but i love it

cool, cool

i recommend checking the Normal_Game page to get an idea of the roles that will be in this game, the forum description says the roles are basic but sometimes they get kind of complicated imo

do u have a usual strategy for how u play games as town/scum?

[scamper]

willing to bet top 5 posters has 0-1 scum

i think it is entirely within range for 4 of those people to highpost as scum

i certainly wuldnt clear me for it, at a minimum

[scamper]

willing to bet top 5 posters has 0-1 scum

i think it is entirely within range for 4 of those people to highpost as scum

i certainly wuldnt clear me for it, at a minimum

which one should I clear?

its been a few years but in her scum games i looked at ausuka was notably lower involvement and i doubt she replicates her current volume of posting as scum (tho i townread her content as well)

i think this could be following the same trajectory as turing test here where i kinda lowkey scumread GL for most of d1 and then it gets to eod and he summarizes his reads and oops turns out we agree on almost everything maybe he's just town

can you give me like the top liner for why you're voting CMM instead of Dann? I'm considering switching but kinda want to see what Dann does on return

i trust scamper and ydra and they have CMM as a top scum and dann more towards null

to be clear on my end it is not a high confidence scum read nor is the differential so strong that i wud ordain one over the other. but i think the pressure is good.

[scamper]

If I had to pick between Dann and Conman I'd say that Dann is scummier and it also feels like Dann has sorta disappeared? I think VP is scummy. But remember, I'm town and my reads are bad.

I don't understand the current dan or con world we are in, how did we get here? I don't know what the cases are on either but I think you could argue that Dann is scummier than con so....

- i didn't like cmm's intro
- his posting came across like he felt pressured to have opinions quickly but didnt have good reasons for having them

i dont think its a lockscum read but i felt like applying pressure after his start


u'll have to ask other ppl about dann i dont sr him as strongly. iirc frog and gl thought he was scummy

(also: both have only been in the game a day, i dont think the inactivity is noticeably different or likely to be ai in and of itself)

[scamper]

What if that means the "town core" is not pure town b/c they are all following the same reads?

do u want people to agree on a wagon or not

[scamper]

What if that means the "town core" is not pure town b/c they are all following the same reads?

no, I want this game to go on and on and on b/c some people started playing it just for fun but they'll continue playing it forever b/c its the phase that never it ends.

but on a more serious note, (for better or worse) it feels like we are getting close to deciding on ending the day in a con or dann vote and apparently we are all doing reads lists to compare where we are all at at you not really wanting to provide us with your reads is

to not sass u for a moment: i see and understand ur concern about too much consensus, but i dont actually think the consensus is as strong as u (or frog) believe, i think i differ from popular reads in a few places. ultimately for the day to end we need to reach an agreement somewhere with a majority of people which is gunna take some amnt of compromise (i swear ppl used to be better abt doing this). i agree again things dont need to go too long and the day extended is bad. but to get that you gotta have agreement, u know?

anyway im probably going to retreat to lurking atp unless its absolutely necessary for me to weigh in

[scamper]

UNVOTE:

i think i got what i wanted out of the cmm wagon, not feeling strongly he flips scum anymore

[scamper]

UNVOTE:

i think i got what i wanted out of the cmm wagon, not feeling strongly he flips scum anymore

what about his recent posts vibes townie to you?

its less so that its townie and moreso that i feel like my case against him isnt all that strong

(and the soft side of me says i dont want to elim someone on d1 in their first game back in years)

[scamper]

Has anyone who is scum reading elephant done a meta dive on them?

i took a look but his scum games are all 3+ years old and there's no obvious differences or tells, he's fairly competent at the alignment. any research at this point is probably just going to reaffirm my existing biases


hes still my only scumread of significance tbh. i have some theories on other people but theyre weak and ive cooled on cmm being scum even if others disagree

[scamper]

I kinda think Dann is just town from skimming his entry again but not like something very certain.

ari do u have people u want to vote? im meh on wagoning cmm now

[scamper]

I kind of think CMM is mafia but if you want to change to someone else I am happy to sheep you

firebringer or baltar? I'm not sure are you trying to pressure to solve or just consolidate for an elim?

just checking to see if we have reads we agree on, had forgotten whether your vote on conman was a sheep vote or not. i dont have any scumreads im strongly confident in, i cld vote vpb if there was a pivot to him

[scamper]

VOTE: gamma emerald
Fuck this game.

can u not

[scamper]

ConManMick, I meant to follow up with another question but I think you missed the first one.

I asked you why you voted Ari because i think it's a bit suspicious when you could have wagoned the eira slot which you scumread and also who dann replaced
you followed it up with an "iso" on dann that i thought didn't make a bit of sense and the conclusion that dann was town and a bad wagon came out of nowhere. i wanted you to expound on that.

hm

VOTE: conman

[scamper]

Spoiler:

I'm finding it pretty hard to be invested in this game because of the long weekend in the US, but I'm going to raise a few points about GuiltyLion that kind of bug me. This is far from a comprehensive analysis of his ISO, but I need to force myself to be involved here otherwise I'll just end up not logging in all weekend.


I'll say I started off the game kind of being OK with GL. I didn't mind his pushes on scamper and FB, and I could at least understand where he was coming from there. But as the game has progressed, I've found the things he's pushing to be quite nonsensical and filled with busy work.

As an example:

like specifically, he's the one who brought up the idea of a shitfight with Nero to begin with. Then when Nero was like "actually why aren't you fighting with me", his response was "cause that's what I would do if I were scum, and I'm not scum". idk if I'm effectively communicating the point, but it just feels like comments weren't meant to do anything other than imply that his play is town

This is such a nonsense point he is trying to even make. The person who got freaking OUTRAGED that I asked a clarifying question about who he was referring to (1214 is around the end of this argument for those who need refreshing) is trying to use a clear joke as a shade point against me. It just doesn't make sense when he thinks its so fake for me to not understand him, but then he can't comprehend jokes. Give me a fucking break. He's either town who is way over committed to a scum!VP worldview and is trying to score cheap points, or he's scum. I have a hard time believing the former considering I had to goad him about not actually being willing to vote me without cover of a wagon.

i'm not personally really townreading but a number of my townreads are and I'm currently ok with that: {dv, marci, xofelf}

would yeet: {dann, conman, firebringer, vpb}

This is an absolute trash reads list, imo. DV looks pretty town to me this game. Marci seems pretty townie, though she's opaque sometimes. xofelf is probably null to town lean for me. Dann and conman I've talked about already. FB did look scummy to me early on, so I can agree there. And I'm town.

So like, where's the beef in this reads list? Unless I'm so dead wrong on my reads at the start of this game, I have trouble seeing how people see this list from GL as credibly a good take from someone who has been HIGHLY engaged with the game so far.

i think this could be following the same trajectory as turing test here where i kinda lowkey scumread GL for most of d1 and then it gets to eod and he summarizes his reads and oops turns out we agree on almost everything maybe he's just town

can you give me like the top liner for why you're voting CMM instead of Dann? I'm considering switching but kinda want to see what Dann does on return

And the last thing that really bugs me about GL is the constant looking for cover from other players. I've made this point already, and GL says "well I do this as town"...which means absolutely nothing. That's an easy meta thing to exploit and duplicate as scum so you take no responsibility for anything that happens.

The extremely hedgy "I'm considering switching" just reads like he's testing the waters with fire here to see what they think before actually making a move. It's gross and doesn't have town vibes to me.

In that situation, if I'm actually unsure of what to do, I might ask a more direct question, like: "Hey fire, I think CMM is scummy for XYZ, but I'm unsure if I'm over analyzing that. I"d like your opinion." Instead, we get a trial balloon floated.



Datisi, I'd be curious to hear what you find townie about GL since you said that's your read there. What am I missing?

TLDR on GL:

-Shading and making pedantic arguments with people that aren't scumhunting. Evil intentions!
- Readlist stinks to high heaven.
- Too afraid to live his own life. Wants excuses in the future when he's on a misyeet D1.

i dont want to feel like this is getting glossed over, but im really not sure any of this adds up to being scum...at most i get that u disagree with his reads and the language hes using, but i feel like even that is selective because ive felt in a few paces like hes been genuinely solcing. its really kind of a vibe read so not that high confidence but i dont feel like limming gl

[scamper]

This is fucking hilarious, I must've asked you four times now to explain your reasoning on me vs. Irrelephant and you're gonna pull me on missing a question, you're some cowboy

its not really that interesting. i do what i want with my vote and at that time it was better served pressuring you, im not obligated to keep a vote on one particular scumread

[scamper]

are marci and conman a team or s/t lol

is there a reason ur considering the possibility of a team?

[scamper]

This is fucking hilarious, I must've asked you four times now to explain your reasoning on me vs. Irrelephant and you're gonna pull me on missing a question, you're some cowboy

its not really that interesting. i do what i want with my vote and at that time it was better served pressuring you, im not obligated to keep a vote on one particular scumread

And like, which one of you in the thread came up with this in the last few days you've had to talk it through?

lol

i mean i think answering something like would be p trivial to fake as scum, its just a bad question so i ignored it the first time

[scamper]

anyone here to real time for a few?

at first i didn't like how long these days were but now it's become a huge blessing.

do u have thoughts on the current wagons?

[scamper]

2413 felt like a townie hip-reaction from gamma, though i had some issues with the slot before iirc, the vote with the disclaimer of possible reconsideration looks townie.

what are the votes at right now?

conman, dannflor, and gamma are the main wagons. vp baltar is pushing guiltylion but not many people agree with him

[scamper]

i mostly thought hem made a good point against cmm that cmm was unable to answer

dannflor said he didnt have time to catch up properly until today so see what he does now ig

[scamper]

mostly thought hem made a good point against cmm that cmm was unable to answer

The point being that his GL read flipped? Idk, maybe he is making it up, but like why? It's not like I have a lot of momentum backing my GL push right now. What's he got to gain from it?

moreso that hes distancing himself from the dann wagon while not actually having a scumread on any of the people on it

[scamper]

hi i want to revisit this

VOTE: tsq

[scamper]

also vp flipping scum makes me feel better about GL and Nero as town although i already had Nero as a pretty strong townread

[scamper]

Were you @ me for scum reading VP?

no, i checked and i disagreed with u on dv but not vpb, i couldnt figure out what to make of vpb because all his scumreads seemed so bad to me but ultimately i had fewer reasons to townread him tgan other people

[scamper]

I'm really interested in what people think about what i think about obscure.

Because i was not happy when i came to the conclusions i did. So sanity checks appreciated.

i will cop to this: this was a thought i had in my back pocket that i did not want to share on day 1, because i did not want to push obscure then (and was planning on waiting on sharing it until later this phase if possible)


i do not think obscure is new to forum mafia. i believe he is legitimately new to the website (because the mods will smack down someone who tries to join the newbie queue as an alt), but he is downplaying his forum mafia experience. he is more self-assured than i would expect a newbie to be, and has also used language i would not expect a new player to use, while seemingly playing up his inexperience to get townread. i do find this suspicious although i have seen people play the fake newbie card as town before, god knows why

[scamper]

i think you should be happy that you came to a better conclusion

well jury is still out on marci, not so sure about that one

i think baltars townread on marci is too terrible to be a townread on a partner

beyond that i still think her reaction to being scumread is way more likely to be town entitlement altho i admit i could be overly generous there

[scamper]

going back to this:

Post 1501 ok I’m back to not liking scamper because I do not like this post at ALL. I know I have some bias here because I know the flip, but this play just does not match the style I’ve seen scamper do all game, which is to cautiously move extremely slowly with his own reads and nitpick everyone elses reads ad naus without actually engaging with them. He has also multiple times expressed not being interested in things or bored by them because he does not think they lead to useful information.

So it is EXTREMELY incongruous here for him to immediately say, upon a replacement joining the game to replace an extreme lurker “I’m just going to vote here immediately.” despite even saying that the replacement is NAI based off of the one entry vote when theres so much else going on. I just…What?

Do I think its necessarily scum indicative? Idk, but holy hell is it completely different from every other game action he’s taken this game.

do u actually think me making an immediate vote is unlike the actions i have taken this game?

i had one scumread i felt decently about on day 1, irrelephant. i could not get traction on him because people were townreading him for (imo bad) reasons and then he stopped playing the game and made excuses for not catching up. of course i am going to go back to tghat scumread on day 2. you dont get to start with a clean slate.

[scamper]

i think you should be happy that you came to a better conclusion

well jury is still out on marci, not so sure about that one

i think baltars townread on marci is too terrible to be a townread on a partner

beyond that i still think her reaction to being scumread is way more likely to be town entitlement altho i admit i could be overly generous there

I want to know what you think of my observation that multiple times day one she responded to people saying x is more likely to come from town by immediately doing x right after.

i havent read ur entire wall and probably wont have time to get to most of it tonite

[scamper]

thread moving too fast rn so i am probably going to take a break

[scamper]

going back to this:

Post 1501 ok I’m back to not liking scamper because I do not like this post at ALL. I know I have some bias here because I know the flip, but this play just does not match the style I’ve seen scamper do all game, which is to cautiously move extremely slowly with his own reads and nitpick everyone elses reads ad naus without actually engaging with them. He has also multiple times expressed not being interested in things or bored by them because he does not think they lead to useful information.

So it is EXTREMELY incongruous here for him to immediately say, upon a replacement joining the game to replace an extreme lurker “I’m just going to vote here immediately.” despite even saying that the replacement is NAI based off of the one entry vote when theres so much else going on. I just…What?

Do I think its necessarily scum indicative? Idk, but holy hell is it completely different from every other game action he’s taken this game.

do u actually think me making an immediate vote is unlike the actions i have taken this game?

i had one scumread i felt decently about on day 1, irrelephant. i could not get traction on him because people were townreading him for (imo bad) reasons and then he stopped playing the game and made excuses for not catching up. of course i am going to go back to tghat scumread on day 2. you dont get to start with a clean slate.

I'm talking about your vote on CMM there.

Your vote on relly was when i started to think you were town.

serves me for not clicking the link ig

i dont really have a lot to say in response to this, i thought it was appropriate to pressure the replacement because of his opener. i dont think thats out of line with how i play

[scamper]

in other news: firebringer was the one day 1 read where i decided i was possibly being overly generous on the townread of him and think vp could have been bussing him, at a glance

[scamper]

i think you should be happy that you came to a better conclusion

well jury is still out on marci, not so sure about that one

i think baltars townread on marci is too terrible to be a townread on a partner

beyond that i still think her reaction to being scumread is way more likely to be town entitlement altho i admit i could be overly generous there

I want to know what you think of my observation that multiple times day one she responded to people saying x is more likely to come from town by immediately doing x right after.

Spoiler:

Marcistar

I can’t help but notice that marci, as soon as people started discussing her on page 6-7 and declaring her town for being present and not awkward and willing to respond to something with a joke immediately disappeared from the conversation. I would think that’s something that people who were actually looking into a real meta analysis of marci would pick up on, but like I said meta is garbage and people squint to make it say whatever they want it to at any given time.

Post 330 don’t like this post either. Coming back into the game and reacting in the exact same way as people flimsily townread you for before while adding very little additional context to the game at all is a big yikes. And I really hate the meta read here a lot. People change and people learn. This seems to be a particularly shitty example of meta which is directly correlated to change as someone gets more experience.

Oh hey, marci comes back on page 24 and once again contributes nothing. And ONCE again drops the “let me joke about being scum” thing again that got her town read for shitty meta reasons earlier. Hmmmmmm.

Post 732 seems like such a huge tonal overreaction to what was happening here. Maybe I’m missing some context but like jesus christ.

Post 740 is a weird AtE. What is there to be frustrated about? The game has barely started? You had a couple people vaguely think you could be scum? This also seems like such an incredible overreaction to me and I don’t think a town one.

Post 750 more AtE stuff. Marci, if you are actually town and you want to “do good” as you put it, why don’t you try solving instead of posting giant walls about being sad. The reason people are finding you suspicious is you’ve done basically nothing except pop into the thread go “LOL YA I’M SCUM” and then disappear without any attempt at determining other peoples alignments. If this is really your town game it needs a major makeover.

Post 809 feels vaguely town. One of the first times I’ve seen marci do something I would call earnest attempt at sorting.

In fact, the whole follow up to dropping this list feels vaguely town too. And spurred actual discussion.

Post 838 is also pretty townie.

Post 996 dont love this from marci. When she posted a similar list someone pointed out that one of the people on it had done nothing she said “so why do you think theyre on the list” so she’s aware of the process of putting lurkers in your scum pool.

Page 53: Marci is still here apparently. And still not interested in playing the game.

Post 1564 YES! <3

Post 1717 this grouping is EXTREMELY gross.

Post 1835 yo this is precisely how I feel about gamma as well. Marci why dont you post more shit like this and less shit like LOL VOTE ME LOLOLOLOL

I think I’ve decided to town read marci for her actions and push on gamma at end of day, mostly. I also feel like the tone is good.

why are u asking me about this observation when u ultimately concluded on a town read of marci?

[scamper]

Because I am unsure.

i'm not sure why u want my opinion on it? i dont think the stuff u pointed out about her doing is particularly scummy, it reads like very minor things to me and she did a lot of odd fluff posting stuff in her last game as town too. i had her as town on day 1 and havent had reason to re-evaluate most of my reads yet.

[scamper]

UNVOTE:

while i am still very suspicious of the relly slot i feel like i dont need to dogpile someone who has just replaced in

[scamper]

i feel like i dont need to dogpile

Spoiler:

its a wolf

[scamper]

now that the spam from the game re-opening is (hopefully) over...

Tbh i don’t think if datisi and vp are wolfing together vp goes after datisi for something that awkward lol, the vote entitlement thing. they’re probably gonna be more than happy together to coordinate something more believable and less. well. awkward.

it feels like their interactions too prickly like too little hedgehogs

i would agree with this after looking it over, i think baltar was consistently shading datisi well beyond the point of it making much sense as distancing, and the reaction in 1045 is very defensive, it felt like he got threatened by what was a pretty simple question by datisi

--

i think the relly slot, the fb slot, and hem are all p darn scummy and have questionable associations with vpb after looking them over, and i would like to focus on those players. will get into details in a bit.

[scamper]

Spoiler: Irrel trajectory on VPB

Why do you ask? I think there's enough content here that you don't have to pick at vibe reads

Seemed like a read not based in reality.

What should I be picking at?

What does "a read not based in reality" actually mean

It means it seems like you made it up and now you are covering poo with ~vibes~

This feels like a wildly out-of-nowhere take?? Like even if you think Ausuka's wrong I'm not sure why it's so unbelievable that her wrong read would be based on vibes

dats, why didn't you withhold your ari read before she can explain what her baltar read was so you can read her better

well for one, she can still explain it. for two, i think scum-her is capable of faking that read. so i don't think it's too alignment-indicative either way.

Why bring it up if it's NAI?

wow can't believe Datisi is the planned D1 bus for once

townier than rand:

vpb

VOTE: VP Baltar
I love wagons

I was actually just on VPB and my townlean on VPB has mostly faded at this point. Could go either way. Datisi feels like a lightning rod choice bound to pull in a lot of attention, alternatively VPB might be an interesting wagon as someone sitting closer to most people's null piles. So uh yeah, could go either way lol

This back and forth progression on VPB feels more likely to be real and not a projected trajectory

hmmm

usually I don't see scum fake reversals like 403 to 652

however the fact that VPB flipped maf weakens that somewhat as it could be a thing specifically to pretend to be uninformed

I genuinely don't know if I feel strongly about this being T-S or S-S, would love to hear others opinions

oh cool, you quoted the posts so i dont have to

i think the reasoning for the vote on vpb is p bad and noncommittal, and it was him joining a pre-existing train without actually saying much. he later leaves, ofc without saying much abt vpb after that

he also made this post, which i absolutely hated at the time:

willing to bet top 5 posters has 0-1 scum

because it was trying to clear people off volume when most of those names are capable of posting a lot as scum. when i questioned him on it he mentioned he townread me/hem/ausuka but didnt say anything about vpb

[scamper]

Spoiler:

This feels like a wildly out-of-nowhere take?? Like even if you think Ausuka's wrong I'm not sure why it's so unbelievable that her wrong read would be based on vibes

Mostly because Nero hadn't done anything out of normal range there, fmpov, so I wanted to press a little bit and see if she had any deeper reasoning for making a town read there. She did not.

I think pushing on flimsy reads early on in a game can be a fruitful way to catch scum before they find their footing.

"It means it seems like you made it up and now you are covering poo with ~vibes~" is how you're planning to catch scum!Ausuka?

Like 399 is a good reason for pushing Ausuka's Nero read but also not sure it matches with you just kinda shading Ausuka for having a viberead. You can be a townlean for 396 though, so maybe I'll just drop this

this interaction (which would be missed by ctrl+F'ing relly) feels like relly wants to avoid actually pushing on baltar and the post he townleans baltar for is really weak

Spoiler:

Read 2 pages and fireisredsir can maybe be town, okay bye for awhile

uhm

Uh oh I agree with scamper

firebringer and xofelf trading compliments on page 9 maybe not s/s?

Kind of like this thought. Can you tell me more why you think that's unlikely from them specifically?

Lol ok. So how is it 'made up' exactly

[snipped spoiler tag]

Bolded are places where I was surprised at GuiltyLion feeling a little firey, a little overly negative, something off about the vibe.
I dunno maybe I'm inserting a tone that isn't there but I just got negative vibes from a lot of these posts? Like a puppy trying to assert dominance. Whereas I feel like from InnocentLion I'm used to something a bit more like an older dog slowly and professor-ishly catching scum.

No offense @GL I'm just using the best silly metaphor I can think of

I actually liked GL so far? Why can't they be serious? Seemed like trying to work an angle and see where it goes, even if it's early.

is it just me or ausuka and vpb has this

t en s i o n

A real will they, won't they vibe

firebringer and xofelf trading compliments on page 9 maybe not s/s?

Kind of like this thought. Can you tell me more why you think that's unlikely from them specifically?

Feels unlikely anyone would fake it as scum theater, and also if they shared a scum thread I kind of think that's where they would have done this "oh hey it's you, nice!"

I guess there's a small chance they re-enacted their scum thread convo in the main thread, but overall it just feels natural. And I doubt as scum they would plan this type of casual reconnection as their way of appearing unaligned

Oh so it's more general and not about then specifically?

Right. Why?

I kind of liked it more as a read if it applied specifically to them.

Scum being friendly in thread doesn't seem that AI to me, but to each their own I guess.

xofelf town

You and HEM both said this. What is compelling a TR there?

a summary of these interactions:

- agrees with me being suspicious of one single relly post i thought was awkward/forced sounding
- likes relly outing a really trivial not s/s read
- defends gl from relly calling him ovely negative
- does some softball questioning of that not s/s read from earlier
- asks why relly is townreading xof


then vpb tries to jump down my throat when i vote irrelehant:

Spoiler:

Pedit - also don't love scamper's elephant vote, so there's that

idk i think its a spicy take

Spicy isn't the same as good unless we are talking about burritos

Pedit - also don't love scamper's elephant vote, so there's that

y not?

It's a naked voted on a very townie looking player. Outside being edgy, what are you hoping to achieve here?

Pedit - also don't love scamper's elephant vote, so there's that

y not?

It's a naked voted on a very townie looking player. Outside being edgy, what are you hoping to achieve here?

why is irrelephant very townie?

do you think my play here as scum is being contrarian for no reason? i have about a dozen better ways to get townread

Elephant is asking consistent questions and pushing datisi reasonably seriously, which is probably unlikely to come from scum early game.

I think when you're scum with datisi, it's easier to just say townbin early and not risk his wrath.

I also don't get agenda vibes from elephant, like at all.

Why is he scummy?

Elephant is asking consistent questions and pushing datisi reasonably seriously, which is probably unlikely to come from scum early game.

do you think he's pushing me for reasons that are actually any good

Eh, I they are OK, not great. I think he's right that you're reasonably flat so fat this game, but I think that could be RL related and I dont want to yeet you rn.

I do agree with his "if you worry about dats, you should push there" because I've fallen victim to the opposite of that.

Can I ask why you get annoyed with people pushing you? You seem kind of more frustrated than i might expect. It's to be expected as a good player to some degree isn't it?

Hell, I think I'm just OK, and I get wagoned in like literally every game I'm in.

please note: the confidence of the townread on relly is WAY out of proportion to anything he expressed prior, where he was making a waflly townlean, and the reasons for it are p bad

i really dont see why he goes off like this at a random naked vote on a townie, and after i out that read he keeps calling me scum

Spoiler:

willing to bet top 5 posters has 0-1 scum

Wouldn't any random distribution of 5 players contain 0-1 scum?

I just said I'm not into statistics but I think ur wrong

I'm not either, but in a 20p game, there are probably like 4 scum. So seems like that's accurate.

I guess what I'm saying is that I think what you posted looks like you're saying something, but in reality you're not saying much at all.

Maybe some math person will tell me I'm dumb, but that's my gut reaction.

here he shades relly for his post about the top posters being mostly town which is again weird, if its a townie making a bad read why say anything at all?

Spoiler:

pedit: I see this is unrequested, but I don't care because I'm fooking trying. Datisi, I don't think your reads actually closely align with GL would be my takeaway. 4-5 of his top scum reads are on the town side of your triangle (even if some are lower confidence), so you might want to rethink how you're viewing him.

irrel

- i've talked about my issues with his read on me already. i didn't like the post where he was like "i love when the wagon is on town, makes vca easier", first because it reads like fake bravado, second because i don't get the feeling he's actually done any vca. what's giving me pause is the recent vent-posting, because i feel like that *usually* comes from town, but good scum definitely can replicate it so it's not a greta point but it still is giving me pause.

a read I keep avoiding going to the ISO well for. fuck if I know. I actually didn't mind his push on you. Still on my to-do list forever because I don't wanna

and here again he stalls on actually giving a read on relly in his response to datisi

so all in all i think theres a decent chance of relly slot being teamed with vpb based on their interactions

[scamper]

who was the first person to call out nero and vpb are not arguing? i feel like that might be telling for *someone*, but i'm phoneposting and lazy atm

iirc GL was the one who called him scum for his response to nero?

[scamper]

I feel like vpb being so willing to call relly extremely town is +town for relly

I think scum is more hesitant to chainsaw so blatantly?

no

[scamper]

i also dont think sheas wallpost was towny

having a bunch of reactions to things is easy to fake as scum because you can just...say things. ive faked that sort of catchup before, and as a replacement its easy to do because you dont really have to have an agenda with ur commentary

but it wasnt actually synthesized into a cohesive worldview that shows an attempt to join those observations together in attempt to actually solve

now granted, it is an absolutely monstrous game in terms of length and he clearly did not catch up to everything, and i dont want to unfairly dump on shea for being behind


but i certainly do not townread him just for effort, and absolutely no one should be doing that when a player is reasonably skilled as scum

[scamper]

i can probably do due diligence and check vpbs meta for how he behaves around partners but if hes only rolled scum like twice in 2 years i wouldnt expect any consistent obvious patterns

i also would be kind of surprised if he exclusively pushed town but thats not necessarily a road i want to go down right away

[scamper]

I agree that my post was not town or scum, it just was.

I would ask you to look at what I've done since and tell me what about it is scummy?

i dont have thoughts on what youve done since then. i have a pre-existing scumread on ur slot, i believe there is reason to believe it is partnered with vpb and i am discussing that.

however, i am willing to give u space to work and analyze things if u are town. i dont have anything more to say about ur slot and will probably be moving on to discuss other players. i dont really think getting in a back and forth with u about ur alignment is likely to be helpful for either me or u atp.

[scamper]

if possible, can i get a list of who is playing right now/alive and the votes?

unofficial vc

thestatusquo (2): ydrasse, datisi
Datisi (2): humaneatingmonkey, ausuka
gamma emerald (2): thestatusquo, dannflor
marcistar (1): gamma emerald
Dannflor (1): frogsterking
xofelf (1): nero cain
something_smart (1): guiltylion

not voting: obscure, something_smart, marcistar, xofelf, scamper, fireisredsir, deasvail

17 alive, 9 to elim

[scamper]

ok so status replaced elephant. i kind of think they're not paired with VP. just because VP seems to put an emphasis on saying votes on elephant are bad, and i don't think mafia would so obviously try to pair themselves to a partner: it seems more likely they're trying to get a villager on their side.

I agree with this take tbh and like it, VP really felt like white knighting Relly to me

Btw Dats why was my case on you towny?

honestly i feel like i should have died last night and the fact im still alive makes me think i have townread scum

I think this take is pretty wild but maybe town indicative???

i think your analysis of baltars interactions is completely backwards, i dont think baltar makes sense as scum with datisi, i only looked at one of baltars scum games but his play trended a lot more toward defending his partners in that one, so going in with the expectation that "baltar fosed this person so they were distancing" is the wrong way to go about things

[scamper]

and one of them (nero) has garbage reasoning like "relly white knighted an unflipped slot and that was bad????"

I get that you aren't going to agree that you are scum but your slot said that Skitter was town for an event that never even happened in this game. Only one person said anything about it and it got swept under the rug b/c you guys were too busy mislimming conman to care.

i mean, i wanted to vote relly but half the game gave me pushback on it so i wound up settling, and now im getting pushback again today

[scamper]

wrt hem: i think nero had a good read on him day 1 when he said he was present but didnt really feel like he was doing all that much. it occurred to me overnight that there was mention of a previous game where he got caught fr being overly aggressive, and as there is some overlap between that game and this one its possible he was trying to avoid being caught on that same thing, but overcompensated by playing very passively instead. his push onto datisi sucks and is lazy, like he picked a tunnel target in the first 10 pages and decided to just stay with it. him shading me for unvoting tsq is also bad.

he posts about vpb, but never commits to a real read on him, asks him a few ez questions and fencesits. i dont ever get the sense hem actually tried to solve vpbs alignment

Spoiler:

Ari, Datisi isn't asking you so I'll ask on his behalf

did you think VP was scummy for not voting Datisi there? do you think it's consistent that Datisi would have assumed what he assumed about you here?

is it just me or ausuka and vpb has this

t en s i o n

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ausuka

oh there he goes

making the first move

VPB is your scamper vote serious

here's my early game list

Ausuka - likely town
scamper - poe
Juice - waiting for arrival
Datisi - poe
humaneatingmonkey - town ofc
Aristeia - poe
Firebringer - pending to mid-game
Gamma Emerald - pending read on me
Nero Cain - poe
Eiralox - poe
fireisredsir - probably town
GuiltyLion - poe

VP Baltar - poe

marcistar - probably town
xofelf - likely town
skitter30 - likely town
Irrelephant11 - likely town
ydrasse - pending read on early game
Dunnstral - waiting
DeasVail - pending question on datisi townread

I've decided Datisi is scum but we should let him live because he's cool

Datisi I'm putting you in the penalty box, you're gonna need to start wowing me with some better reads to get out

GL is top town read.

what do you think of Irrellephant, VPB

since we're both high GL, can we vibe and talk casually about the game

what do you think about vpb

At times it feels like VPB is just going down intellectual lines of questioning for its own sake instead of like, genuinely seeking an answer that will impact his reads - if that makes sense

this is exactly what i felt as well

im figuring out if it's vpb pushing buttons to generate content or scum trying to fake a push

did you feel as if vpb's fixation on your gutread was natural?

VPB where are you on this game

@ HEM - for me it's just like, why even put out a list if like 75% is just saying "poe". I'd probably just say "I'm TRing this person. Or so and so is scummy"

It looks like busy work to post a full list that is just meh.

are you even reading my posts

my posts are nothing but that

I'm only talking about your list specifically. Seemed useless, so why even post it? That's what I didn't care for. Think it was a good call out by Nero at the time.

seemed useless? how do you condense your thoughts in one post efficiently? did you even read it in context?

I count 5 reads out of 19 players. Zero scum, or anything generally that doesn't have the flavor of lukewarm milk. It's a pointless list to make other than it looks like effort. I know you're better than that.

to view it as 5/19 is a choice. first of all, if we're using the same unfair standards as you're putting in through, it would be 6/19. second, i dont understand, what would you have expected me to do? third, do you have better reads at that point in the game?

nero said i wasn't doing anything so i showed him where i'm at. why should i make a list later?

meanwhile this is the most baltar had to say about hem:

Spoiler:

VPB where are you on this game

What an incredibly vague question.

I am voting FB. You should too or push a more serious alternative.

There's a lot of faffing going on this game and I'm kinda bored

VP, when did you start thinkng that I was town?

Part of it is cumulative vibes from you being an asshat, which is consistent with my town experience with you obv. (Though certainly fakeable)

For example, your fight with ari seemed absolutely unnecessary.

I also remember feeling better about you when you said something about HEM's list being kind of wishy washy, because that was my same gut reaction when I read it.

I would feel better if you had actually called out HEM in thread instead of retroactively agreeing with me. Or did you call it out, I just don't really remember you doing it.

I didn't call it out at the time because I'm skimming along while I work and just repeating stuff other people have said isn't super useful.

As far as the attitude stuff, I can be a prickly person too! It's definitely not all on you. As much as I joke, I do want to avoid toxic fights if possible because it's probably good to be a grown up. Sometimes I think you intentionally make insults, but I think it's also maybe just your playstyle to try and get reax.


@ HEM - for me it's just like, why even put out a list if like 75% is just saying "poe". I'd probably just say "I'm TRing this person. Or so and so is scummy"

It looks like busy work to post a full list that is just meh.

@ HEM - for me it's just like, why even put out a list if like 75% is just saying "poe". I'd probably just say "I'm TRing this person. Or so and so is scummy"

It looks like busy work to post a full list that is just meh.

are you even reading my posts

Sure.

my posts are nothing but that

I'm only talking about your list specifically. Seemed useless, so why even post it? That's what I didn't care for. Think it was a good call out by Nero at the time.

here's my early game list

Ausuka - likely town
scamper - poe
Juice - waiting for arrival
Datisi - poe
humaneatingmonkey - town ofc
Aristeia - poe
Firebringer - pending to mid-game
Gamma Emerald - pending read on me
Nero Cain - poe
Eiralox - poe
fireisredsir - probably town
GuiltyLion - poe
VP Baltar - poe
marcistar - probably town
xofelf - likely town
skitter30 - likely town
Irrelephant11 - likely town
ydrasse - pending read on early game
Dunnstral - waiting
DeasVail - pending question on datisi townread

I count 5 reads out of 19 players. Zero scum, or anything generally that doesn't have the flavor of lukewarm milk. It's a pointless list to make other than it looks like effort. I know you're better than that.

why should i make a list later?

Because it might contain useful information later about your viewpoint later.


In other news, I agree with scamper that the Erialox wagon seems Zzzzzz.

Vote FB.

pedit: I see this is unrequested, but I don't care because I'm fooking trying. Datisi, I don't think your reads actually closely align with GL would be my takeaway. 4-5 of his top scum reads are on the town side of your triangle (even if some are lower confidence), so you might want to rethink how you're viewing him.

humaneatingmonkey

- the main reason why i'm townreading this slot if because his thoughts on me and around me make sense, see my 1343. otherwise, this seems like a... quiet-town game from him. what i mean is, i don't get the feeling that he's trying to brute force or shitpush things through, and i feel like there were several moments he could've gone more aggressive (like on his push on me) and did not do that. and my impression of him as a scum player is that he *would* have done that. so i'm fine lowkey townbinning him for now.

monkey is town probably.

he never really gives much of a real read on hem, just agrees with nero when nero calls his list bad, and then they have an incredibly tepid argument that goes nowhere. then somehow in a later post he calls hem town and never elaborates on why

so i think hem looks compatible as a partner with vpb, i dont have any good reasons to townread him, if someone who townreads him could give an explanation beyond "he posts a lot" and "has chill vibes", id love to hear it

[scamper]

don't mind me Scamper. I'm just old and cranky. I do feel like I've been ignored a bit and I'm kinda pissed at the con flip b/c I feel like a bunch of pseudo-intellectuals are trying to psychoanalyze everything and it let to a bad flip. I meed to eat foods that are lower in sodium b/c I'm just salty.

no, its fine tbh. i regret letting myself be talked into that vote after i had doubts because everyone kept resisting any other wagon and i was getting kind of tired of the day. i tried to be diplomatic because i didnt have the confidence to strongarm an elim but i can kind of sense the gamestate going sideways if people are allowed to keep wildly pulling in every direction like this because scum just will refuse to vote for each other and we'll have to settle again

[scamper]

Gamma why is HEM scum

he's basically felt fake all game to me, between the overly verbose post I called out early and his approach to me
there's also a slight meta aspect, he feels rather reactive, which I attribute to his scumgame

It feels like you're making a squishy meta feels case here that involves actively ignoring a lot of what HEM is actually doing in order to accomplish it, so the read doesn't feel real to me either.

To me, looking through HEMs posts theres a lot of stuff which is interesting novel thoughts on game and relation to the alignment of others that would be really strange to come from a scum player and hard to fake because they involve breaking the flow of the game which in some cases would be detrimental to scum.

UNVOTE:

while i am still very suspicious of the relly slot i feel like i dont need to dogpile someone who has just replaced in

i wonder if this is a direct reaction to TSQ mentioning that scum loves to dogpile replacements

Take this post, for example. Why would scum HEM feel the need to point this out at this time? Unless you think he and I are buddies there's very little reason that HEM would think this is a good topic of conversation for town to take, because it detracts from the momentum of the suspicion of me. Like, I guess you are saying that you think HEM and I are buddies because its a game solve but when I read back on HEMs iso theres a lot of stuff like this that individually seems like pointing out little things that are interesting for the town to think about.

I don't see a lot of scum motivation for a lot of HEMs posting, and I think its hard to fake because its not like not doing this stuff will get you scum read and the effects on the game are net negative for scum.

that post is haasically awful shade on me for nonsense reasons, how the hell is it tony

[scamper]

i think tsq and hem are scum together

[scamper]

wjy?

theyre defending each other for poor reasons

hem is trying to attack/discredit sheas detractors

irrelephant gave that awful post count read on hem and townread him for no good reason

hem also townreadirrelephant for awful reasons initially

hem swearing at shea on entry was absurdly theatrical and they backed down quickly and since then hes basically made no effort to interact with tsq

[scamper]

Would be nice if

scamper

and Dats could comment on wether or or not they think relly's town read of Skitter for a reason that didn't happen is a "mistake" as Ausuka and Shea believe or if that was scum.

scamper might agree with me but would be nice to hear from Dats about anything other than Ari

i think it was probably scum glossing over the thread and BSing a read without actual good reasons behind it

[scamper]

annoyed with the noise in this game again, people are shouting over one another, i am barely able to pay attention to things other people post, back in a few hours

[scamper]

i've stopped reading this game


would probably vote any of {hem, something_smart, fireisredsir, obscure, tsq}

[scamper]

if i made a wall post would u read it out of support?

if u ask me to read something, sure

it's just that the noise level is too high and at this point it becomes not worth trying to keep up with everything

[scamper]

I feel like people should just start voting and we can see what happens

VOTE: something_smart

[scamper]

would probably vote any of {hem, something_smart,

fireisredsir

, obscure, tsq}

i think i'm interested in the bolded

hi it's me, the bolded

i don't townread u

i don't have a case beyond that

[scamper]

also: ari had a scumpool of {dats, fireisred, conman, vpb, firebringer}

i dont think ari dies n1 if she only has 1 correct scumread and i dont think she was right about dats

[scamper]

I mean Datisi's posting on why he can't be a buddy to VPB is basically just

"we are friends and I would like us to be scum together, if we were scum together I would be more active."

I think given that datisi was very busy for part of the game and is still one of the top posters, and he specifically messed around a lot with Baltar, his play here is engaged and meets that description. I also think Aristeia knows Datisi and VP Baltar well enough to know that they're friends and account for that in her read.

I'm not saying Ari is infallible or a god or whatever. I'm saying specifically on Datisi I have reasons to think she is trustworthy and when she dies on night 1 and datisi comes out with self meta opposite to what she said, of course I'm going to be suspicious of that. I don't think that's unfair at all.

i'm going to step in here and tell u that u are wrong on datisi. i am incredibly confident he is town. i do not think u are scum and if u are town it is more productive for u to be able to focus ur time elsewhere rather than being tunneled on an incorrect answer

[scamper]

I still think the kill is WIFOM and the "omg Ari is dead so her reads must have been AMAZING!" is exactly what scum were going for but maybe I'm just wrong and they were good.

i mean she was right on vpb so i hardly think u can call the whole argument WIFOM

[scamper]

I wouldn't say I'm tunneled? I am aware there is a very good chance Datisi is town. I think
1) nobody else is really going to give Datisi any scrutiny if I don't do it
2) I have in fact been thinking about other slots in the game and there isn't any one in particular that stands out as a good push to me right now.

I have been giving arguments for why Datisi is suspicious. Last time you talked to me you mischaracterised my arguments as saying Datisi is scum because VPB pushed him which obviously is not the case. I'm open to dropping this but I don't know why you'd expect "datisi is town" to convince me?

because i am strongly implying i have reasons i would not like to state at this time and my hope is u would pick up on that rather than continuing to press me on that

[scamper]

i would hope most players would take the hint that "incredibly confident" suggests

[scamper]

UNVOTE:

whatever I'm stupid or something you guys have fun without me

you're not stupid. you're just wrong in a game of mafia. it happens to everyone. i value your input which is why i wanted to nudge you off of spending all your time pushing an incorrect read.

[scamper]

its fine, dw about it

[scamper]

i basically agree with all of that, would also point out that this comment about ari "soft defending" firebringer can easily be the thing scum does where they try t set up a teammate as defending a buddy:

FB, what do you think of ari's meta defense of you?

wut?
Pretty sure Ari is doing to opposite of defending FB

VP Balter

, you gonna explain what made you think this?

Ari is definitely soft defending FB by questioning my vote there. How would you describe it?

and firebringer had basically the lightest of shade toward vpb and from the game i looked at he tends to distance/bus a fair amount

[scamper]

i don't think it's, like, guaranteed or anything. i'm just trying to find a wagon i want that other people might vote...

[scamper]

Do you feel ready to post an updated reads list, scamper?

not tonight, maybe tomorrow

i don't think they've changed all that much for me though

[scamper]

game has a high concentration of too many people making too much noise which leaves a bunch of people doing very little

{datisi, ausuka, nero cain, frogsterking, ydrasse}
{gamma emerald, guiltylion}
{deasvail, xofelf, marcistar, dannflor, thestatusquo}
{hem, fireisredsir, obscure, something_smart}

enough people are vouching for tsq that either scum are just surrendering an opening to push him or town are throwing.

but atp wld rather have someone who's actually contributing alive than someone who's not

[scamper]

183
makes me think Skitter/VP aren't a thing though

i don't really think this is anti-aligning at all, btw

and if anything i can see 2327 being something he does to boost up a partner

[scamper]

I also agree with the first part of this. I understand that probably some of scampers frustration is not being able to get me killed but I don't think the characterization of the game is correct. This isn't a spam fest, this is players talking through what they think of other players. I think its just extremely normal mafia in that sense and I don't understand the characterization of it in this way. I don't think this game has been particularly noisy unless you are deliberately categorizing game posts from people you think are scum as "noise" or trying to discredit people somehow.

we have almost 4000 posts and it's day 2. that is too many posts. people aren't really engaging substantively and i have a sneaking suspicion a good chunk of the game is checked out entirely. ive started skipping posts because no one is makign any substantive points and i feel like even when i check in im not missing anything. at this point it's not worth me attempting to make much contribution cuz its just gunna get ignored, and adding to an excessively large volume of posts will only cause thread health to deteriorate further. if u cant sort scum from town who are perpetually behind and therefore unmotivated, town is gunna lose.


i'm not, like, dead set on killing u or id still be pounding away at that point. as it is im perfectly content with sitting back and voting somewhere else while people yammer away.

[scamper]

Something_Smart (6): GuiltyLion, Frogsterking, scamper, fireisredsir, Ydrasse, humaneatingmonkey

in scamper's pov i am lurking scum who voted with him on his scumread so he should probably be unvoting now if his reads are real

r u saying i should be assuming ur scum and s_s is town?

[scamper]

Something_Smart (6): GuiltyLion, Frogsterking, scamper, fireisredsir, Ydrasse, humaneatingmonkey

in scamper's pov i am lurking scum who voted with him on his scumread so he should probably be unvoting now if his reads are real

r u saying i should be assuming ur scum and s_s is town?

it should give you pause

i don't really anticipate my reads are perfect and i have very little patience for this game atm because i think the threadstate is poor


if u want, i can get u elimmed instead

[scamper]

VOTE: hem

[scamper]

hem is trying to bad faith push me because i've been calling him scum, all his arguments are terrible and he's not interested in doing anything resembling actual solving

he was distancing from vpb day 1 as i've already pointed out

i am going to start hammering this point home until he is dead

[scamper]

wrt hem: i think nero had a good read on him day 1 when he said he was present but didnt really feel like he was doing all that much. it occurred to me overnight that there was mention of a previous game where he got caught fr being overly aggressive, and as there is some overlap between that game and this one its possible he was trying to avoid being caught on that same thing, but overcompensated by playing very passively instead. his push onto datisi sucks and is lazy, like he picked a tunnel target in the first 10 pages and decided to just stay with it. him shading me for unvoting tsq is also bad.

he posts about vpb, but never commits to a real read on him, asks him a few ez questions and fencesits. i dont ever get the sense hem actually tried to solve vpbs alignment

Spoiler:

Ari, Datisi isn't asking you so I'll ask on his behalf

did you think VP was scummy for not voting Datisi there? do you think it's consistent that Datisi would have assumed what he assumed about you here?

is it just me or ausuka and vpb has this

t en s i o n

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ausuka

oh there he goes

making the first move

VPB is your scamper vote serious

here's my early game list

Ausuka - likely town
scamper - poe
Juice - waiting for arrival
Datisi - poe
humaneatingmonkey - town ofc
Aristeia - poe
Firebringer - pending to mid-game
Gamma Emerald - pending read on me
Nero Cain - poe
Eiralox - poe
fireisredsir - probably town
GuiltyLion - poe

VP Baltar - poe

marcistar - probably town
xofelf - likely town
skitter30 - likely town
Irrelephant11 - likely town
ydrasse - pending read on early game
Dunnstral - waiting
DeasVail - pending question on datisi townread

I've decided Datisi is scum but we should let him live because he's cool

Datisi I'm putting you in the penalty box, you're gonna need to start wowing me with some better reads to get out

GL is top town read.

what do you think of Irrellephant, VPB

since we're both high GL, can we vibe and talk casually about the game

what do you think about vpb

At times it feels like VPB is just going down intellectual lines of questioning for its own sake instead of like, genuinely seeking an answer that will impact his reads - if that makes sense

this is exactly what i felt as well

im figuring out if it's vpb pushing buttons to generate content or scum trying to fake a push

did you feel as if vpb's fixation on your gutread was natural?

VPB where are you on this game

@ HEM - for me it's just like, why even put out a list if like 75% is just saying "poe". I'd probably just say "I'm TRing this person. Or so and so is scummy"

It looks like busy work to post a full list that is just meh.

are you even reading my posts

my posts are nothing but that

I'm only talking about your list specifically. Seemed useless, so why even post it? That's what I didn't care for. Think it was a good call out by Nero at the time.

seemed useless? how do you condense your thoughts in one post efficiently? did you even read it in context?

I count 5 reads out of 19 players. Zero scum, or anything generally that doesn't have the flavor of lukewarm milk. It's a pointless list to make other than it looks like effort. I know you're better than that.

to view it as 5/19 is a choice. first of all, if we're using the same unfair standards as you're putting in through, it would be 6/19. second, i dont understand, what would you have expected me to do? third, do you have better reads at that point in the game?

nero said i wasn't doing anything so i showed him where i'm at. why should i make a list later?

meanwhile this is the most baltar had to say about hem:

Spoiler:

VPB where are you on this game

What an incredibly vague question.

I am voting FB. You should too or push a more serious alternative.

There's a lot of faffing going on this game and I'm kinda bored

VP, when did you start thinkng that I was town?

Part of it is cumulative vibes from you being an asshat, which is consistent with my town experience with you obv. (Though certainly fakeable)

For example, your fight with ari seemed absolutely unnecessary.

I also remember feeling better about you when you said something about HEM's list being kind of wishy washy, because that was my same gut reaction when I read it.

I would feel better if you had actually called out HEM in thread instead of retroactively agreeing with me. Or did you call it out, I just don't really remember you doing it.

I didn't call it out at the time because I'm skimming along while I work and just repeating stuff other people have said isn't super useful.

As far as the attitude stuff, I can be a prickly person too! It's definitely not all on you. As much as I joke, I do want to avoid toxic fights if possible because it's probably good to be a grown up. Sometimes I think you intentionally make insults, but I think it's also maybe just your playstyle to try and get reax.


@ HEM - for me it's just like, why even put out a list if like 75% is just saying "poe". I'd probably just say "I'm TRing this person. Or so and so is scummy"

It looks like busy work to post a full list that is just meh.

@ HEM - for me it's just like, why even put out a list if like 75% is just saying "poe". I'd probably just say "I'm TRing this person. Or so and so is scummy"

It looks like busy work to post a full list that is just meh.

are you even reading my posts

Sure.

my posts are nothing but that

I'm only talking about your list specifically. Seemed useless, so why even post it? That's what I didn't care for. Think it was a good call out by Nero at the time.

here's my early game list

Ausuka - likely town
scamper - poe
Juice - waiting for arrival
Datisi - poe
humaneatingmonkey - town ofc
Aristeia - poe
Firebringer - pending to mid-game
Gamma Emerald - pending read on me
Nero Cain - poe
Eiralox - poe
fireisredsir - probably town
GuiltyLion - poe
VP Baltar - poe
marcistar - probably town
xofelf - likely town
skitter30 - likely town
Irrelephant11 - likely town
ydrasse - pending read on early game
Dunnstral - waiting
DeasVail - pending question on datisi townread

I count 5 reads out of 19 players. Zero scum, or anything generally that doesn't have the flavor of lukewarm milk. It's a pointless list to make other than it looks like effort. I know you're better than that.

why should i make a list later?

Because it might contain useful information later about your viewpoint later.


In other news, I agree with scamper that the Erialox wagon seems Zzzzzz.

Vote FB.

pedit: I see this is unrequested, but I don't care because I'm fooking trying. Datisi, I don't think your reads actually closely align with GL would be my takeaway. 4-5 of his top scum reads are on the town side of your triangle (even if some are lower confidence), so you might want to rethink how you're viewing him.

humaneatingmonkey

- the main reason why i'm townreading this slot if because his thoughts on me and around me make sense, see my 1343. otherwise, this seems like a... quiet-town game from him. what i mean is, i don't get the feeling that he's trying to brute force or shitpush things through, and i feel like there were several moments he could've gone more aggressive (like on his push on me) and did not do that. and my impression of him as a scum player is that he *would* have done that. so i'm fine lowkey townbinning him for now.

monkey is town probably.

he never really gives much of a real read on hem, just agrees with nero when nero calls his list bad, and then they have an incredibly tepid argument that goes nowhere. then somehow in a later post he calls hem town and never elaborates on why

so i think hem looks compatible as a partner with vpb, i dont have any good reasons to townread him, if someone who townreads him could give an explanation beyond "he posts a lot" and "has chill vibes", id love to hear it

for visibility

[scamper]

hem is trying to attack/discredit sheas detractors

i dont remember this can you quote it then let's see how much of reach it is on scale of 1 to 10

inb4 no response in 24 hours

u tried to shade me for unvoting shea


however i am less convinced that he is scum now than u are