Open 53: Near-Vanilla - Game over!
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klebian Mafia Scum
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klebian Mafia Scum
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:badposting:deadscilent wrote:I recomend you don't kill me.
and Holey cow Vote jumping.
IGMEOY: Disciple Slayer
I know my vote currently stands on you, but I am keeping an eye on you, just to make that clear.
Stop being such a smart mouth and focus on the game shall we?
If anything, we should have bad feelings about you.-
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klebian Mafia Scum
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klebian Mafia Scum
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This is a pretty dumb post. Kinda feeding the flame or whatever the phrase is.skitzer wrote:Disciple Slayer, do you actually think this is a good way to play?
First you fake claim, than you claim again, which is clearly fake.
FoS: Disciple Slayer
Still typing whole sentences in caps is really irritating. stop pls-
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klebian Mafia Scum
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klebian Mafia Scum
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I mostly agree with shanba's post. I have some discrepancies with the discussion on definitiveness but I agree that it's mostly playstyle and so it doesn't matter that much. I actually don't like ross's defense of TSN, especially his statement that TSN's post was decidedly innocent. I also do not like how he implies that Disciple is scum but decides to vote shanba for being definite and seeming like scum trying to vote innocent....
Vote: rosswilliam
Phate, i'm not so sure that voting without reason is worse than voting for a weak reason. That's pretty much all I can really say now that I think about it. I agree with ross that you couldn't have expected no one to ask you why you voted... I guess all I can say is if you don't think your reason is strong it's probably not enough for a vote...-
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You think it'd be best for the game if you were replaced? You mean best for this game to be abandoned or something? You're active on the site, and there's not much to read in this game, it shouldn't be too hard to get posting again.tyhess wrote:I thought that I was already replaced in this game.....Hjallitti you can replace me...I think it'd be best for this game...-
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What do you think of the rw miniwagonCrub wrote:Any sort of bandwagon which sparks some conversation is welcome at this point.
I still support it for the record.
Ross, I don't agree that your lurking would make the wagon go away. In fact, if you were to lurk, and ignore a wagon on you, this would probably make it grow.-
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klebian Mafia Scum
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This is a pretty weird post. It seemed to me that jdodge was just asking this question, almost as an introduction for killa. And this is all you have to go on? I find this a bit suspicious/strange.skitzer wrote:Sorry I've been kind of lurky. I haven't had much to goo on, except for maybe killa seven not replying to whoever's "Are you scum?" question.
I note your shift from apathy to antipathy toward the RW wagon. I will agree that it's obviously not the strongest reasons for a wagon, but I do think it seems a bit late to be jumping on a wagoner, especially seemingly randomly.Crub wrote:This game is seriously painful.
I'm not a big fan of the RW bandwagon so I'm jumping on klebian.
vote klebian
There's scum on that there wagon.
Concerning korlash's first post. I thought it was a decent read. I agree with his reasoning against DS for the most part, and his argument against post 119 is valid.
His post 221, I liked less.
This makes little sense to me. Their seems to be egregious contradictions, and his statement 'not being on the fence is scummy' just doesn't sit well- just because there are reasons against him and reasons for him doesn't mean that we shouldn't form an opinion regarding him...As for your fence sitting i don't think that makes you scum at all. Unless you and DS are scum partners that is. Then yeah, its a valid point. But I don't see that... (yet) In fact I think not being on the fence here is scummy. I mean on one hand you have a player acting blatantly anti-town. Every town should at least want him out of the game. At the same time we all have to consider him just a "Village idiot" and thus the fence sitting.
The other parts of this post are pretty much him joking.
I don't like this. First off, there was a DS discussion because korlash was recapping his opinions on the game. Also, I don't agree that you can excuse scumminess for meta and go on with it. And even more, this post seems like counter productive to discussion. It should never be the wrong time to discuss someone's behavior, and just because he is about to be replaced doesn't mean we can't do analysis on him.Crub wrote:Secondly WTF is DS even a topic of discussion right now? He's about to be replaced. I think we can safely put DS's play down to his VI meta and hope he get's replaced by someone who isn't a VI.
I agree with the fact that his vague reference doesn't give him real basis for his vote. But I do not think that there is anything wrong with pushing for a VI lynch, if one does think he is scummy...Phate wrote:I can never read Korlash. He always strikes me as either scum or stupid town.
Also, he's pushing a VI lynch, citing one game (well, not really citing, just vaguely mentioning some other game) where VI claimed, retracted, and was scum.
There is no one who at this point truly sticks out as most suspicious. I am still ok with the Ross wagon though I don't see it developing into a lynch too soon and I don't think that at this point it even should be a lynch without some more discussion. I am happier that the game has gotten a little more fast-paced and I will be contributing as well.Shanba wrote:/me sighs.
kleb: which player do you suspect most at the moment? What do you make of Korlashes posts?
Neko, you earlier noted that you had a comment for RW but you don't seem to have made it. (Or was it just regarding his reaction to jdodge's vote?)
This is quite wishy-washy and I don't like it at all. First, you haven't saidNeko wrote: From what I can see so far, TSN and Korlash are towards the top of my scum list for reasons already stated. RW seems like newbie town atm, but he could also be newbie scum. Thus, the 4 on the RW wagon make me a bit nervous. I would agree with Crub that there is probably scum on that wagon somewhere, and seeing how none of them gave much, if any, reasoning, it would pretty much give the scum a free pass (hey, all four of us can't be scum, right? so if they didn't give any reasoning, why should I?). On the other hand, because it's so likely at least one of the four is scum, that makes the townie(s)(though I highly doubt all three scum would be dumb enough to join the same wagon like that) on that wagon an easy target, so Crub could very well have randomly picked someone, or, if he's scum, he could have "randomly" picked a townie. For now, though, Crub seems more town.muchabout tsn and korlash so far. Also, I'm not sure why the RW wagoners make you nervous when you say he could be newbie scum as well as town. And the rest of your post sounds a lot like random gibberish, with unclear reasoning towards your conclusion that crub seems more town.
At first I was going to agree with you, but rereading killa's post, it does seem like skitzer is joking... it seems as if he had intended the "I'm" to be italicized, to indicate that even he is 'getting desperate', as killa said about korlash.skitzer wrote:
Bolded makes me somewhat suspicious of TSN. Although TSN quoted a very suspicious post by RW too.TheSweatpantsNinja wrote:Man, this day's gone on too long.I'm getting desperate to get someone lynched.The post that really sets me off wrong about rw is:
rw wrote: to all the people who are voting for me, i think it says something to my innocence that I'm still here posting and defending myself when it would be so gosh-darn easy for to slip into lurking and let the whole thing blow other.
Not very big leads, but suspicions all the same.
Sometimes this is a better idea =P... or if you're gonna not be serious, make it clear. Sarcasm doesn't pass well over teh internetz.TheSweatpantsNinja wrote:It wasnot entirely serious. It doesn't really matter anyway, we have a deadline, so whether we want to get this day over or not, we don't have a choice.
I swear, I should stop being anything less than dead serious in mafia games.
Though a lot of this post seems like a mess of speaking, I agree with the first statement. Killa's point against korlash that he is getting desperate does seem like a pretty crappy point, as korlash was just saying he wanted to put some pressure.korlash wrote:Your going to have to try very hard in order to convice me that I'm desperate to lynch someone that has one vote... I mean if I was desperate I would totally go after someone with at least 3 votes... Unless your going to say I have a personal vendetta against DS. Which... is not only insane but useless. I mean a vendetta against an idiot? O.o waste of my time if you ask me.
Melody: I agree with skitzer. Number of votes should not at this point affect your choice on votes, unless we are within a day or 2 of deadline, which we are not. Also it seems like you are picking 2 of the 'crowd favorites' to get scummy vibes from. Any opinion on other players other than those two?-
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klebian Mafia Scum
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I would just credit that to a newbie-move: it is not entirely clear to newbies that a death of a townie provides more information than a nolynch (avoiding a townie lynch).
It is not selfish, RW, and it is probably a fairly common notion. But I'd prefer that you try some scumhunting on the evidence we do have before I unvote you.
Crub: I didn't respond to that post after mine, because I felt that there was no good to argue that point.-
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You are being called opportunistic for your post in 289, not later, where you ask rw why you shouldn't vote him, because he immediately 'jumped on' no lynch when the mod 'let him'. You stated that you didn't plan on voting rw in a later post. The rest of your explanation is pretty mediocre- you needed to see how he would respond to criticism? What/why? What does that mean?killa seven wrote:
how am i opportunistic, i stated i didnt plan on voting you (atleast not yet), i pointed that out to get a reactin out of you to see how u would respond to get a better read on you, this game is really slow and there isnt much going on you had 4 votes on you and you had have to most attention on you i need to see how u would respond to critisism.RossWilliam wrote:I was referring to my use of the word oppurtunistic. It is an unfair word when used unproperly, but I think it describes killa seven right now perfectly.-
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Hmm I'm looking at the case on melody man and I realize that he's made about 3 posts. The first was a vote on rw because out of rw and tsn, rw had more votes.
The second post is to explain his suspicions of rw: mainly rw's panickiness and his 'all of a sudden' change to calmness/coolness. He backtracks now and says that another reason he voted rw over tsn was because his only suspicion against tsn was 'feelings'.
The third post states that he realizes the votes on rw were just a wagon, so he unvotes (not revoting tsn)
Now looking at jd's posts: Nothing at all. A lot of nonsense, a lot of votehopping, and his 'suspicion' of rw seems to just have been based on a vote he had made, which also had no backing.
I don't really care about meta that much here. If he's not only gonna lurk but not even post anything when he's posting, I don't like it. Unfortunately mm's lurking doesn't help.
Basically, I could go with either lynch. I slightly prefer a jd lynch so I'm going tovote: jdodge. I am hoping that mm will return from business and start posting, because he hasn't made substantial posts in any topic, while jd has.-
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This post is pretty wrong.RossWilliam wrote:how did you know, killa? How could you have been 100% sure?
and nice cop-out FoS. people who FoS whole bandwagon's are just trying to distance themselves from a mislynch, without actually sharing any of there opinions.
It's easy to say what would should have done. Everyone can play smart in hindsight.
First, obviously he couldn't be 100% sure someone's not scum, but that doesn't mean that someone can't have strong convictions to the point that they believe something. Otherwise you can argue in another game that a claimed cop who has outed 3 scum isn't 100% town because there's no way to 'be sure'...
Second, Killa seven was not on the mmwagon. He was committed to vote on someone else. And he even VOTED someone who was on mm's wagon, the person he was voting yesterday, so it's not just a cop-out fos...-
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I believe you missed what I was saying. I was saying that k7 was not just distancing from a mislynch/cop-out Fosing and 'playing smart in hindsight' because he wasn't on the wagonKorlash wrote:
And? Whats your point here? Kelb tried to use the excuse that Killa wasn't on the MM bandwagon as an excuse for him being town but with the amount of people on JD scum could just have easily been on his with the added knowledge that if MM is lynched they were "off a town lynch."Neko wrote:...including you, in case you forgot...andhe also voted someone.
[quote="Korlash"
I'm sorry where did he say that?[/quote]Neko wrote:So, I don't think it's entirely accurate for you to say that you knew he was scum.
Neko mixed up a word but it should be pretty clear what he meant. He meant it wasn't accurate to say he knew MM, as opposed to jd, was town.-
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Hmm well I thought you had just mixed up a word but it seems you actually believe that k7's claim that he 'knew' mm was town was equivalent to him knowing jd was/is scum. Although you are right in that he considered mm for quite a while, this doesn't mean you can take his statement and assume the contrapositive was true.neko2086 wrote:Ah. k7 said he knew mm was town. He also seems convinced that jdodge is scum. I mixed them up a bit and thought k7 said he knew jdodge was scum. Nevertheless, my point is really the same. k7 is basically saying 'i knew mm was town and jdodge was scum,' and I was simply pointing out that mm was one of his suspects not too long before his jdodge vote, and that his jdodge vote wasn't that strong to begin with.-
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jdodge i was thinking about that question and I think I would agree
not being pro-town is not directly anti-town
however, you are detracting from discussion because it is too often focusing on you (the person who is not being protown) when you are just messing around, so it indirectly hurts the town and so I would call it antitown-
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Maybe what korlash said was laughable but he's not the only person asking you to give some reasoningCrub wrote:
Yeah it is all I'm going to say. What Korlash said was laughable, which is why I laughed. You OMGUS'ing me like that isn't really doing anything to make me feel any better about your alignment.klebian wrote:... is that all you're going to say?
I'm gonnavote: crubas well, because you're pointlessly wasting our time and there is a fixed deadline which is obviously getting closer and closer
but discussion is not really picking up
also i don't frankly care whether my OMGUS makes you not feel better about my alignment because I have some actual basis behind the vote-
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i guess we're kinda waiting on jdodge to answer those questions when he 'has more time'?
i still think crub's 'explanations' are pretty weak- he picked me semi-randomly and has not liked reactions.... also his saying i over-reacted to one vote is pretty baseless until he points out where I did this... I wouldn't agree that I over-reacted, and that still wouldn't show proof of his claim yesterday that I was obv scum since this occurred after he made the claim-
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So I note that the post after this you remark "Well that post didn't do anything to ease my mind about your alignment kleb. " As you had said, you had picked me randomly off the RW wagon, and to gauge reactions. Does this mean that at that time you still viewed me as someone neutral but possibly scum because I was on a wagon that you didn't like (An aside, this wagon at first had just been one that you had no real opinion on)? Did my post affirm this view of me in your opinion?Crub wrote:
First post after lurky period, in regard to my voting him. Fair enough.klebian in 266 wrote:I note your shift from apathy to antipathy toward the RW wagon. I will agree that it's obviously not the strongest reasons for a wagon, but I do think it seems a bit late to be jumping on a wagoner, especially seemingly randomly.
There would have been no positive discussion about that. You had argued that there was no good discussing a 5 page old point, my implication was that there was definitely no good discussing whether discussing a 5 page old point was worthwhile. Obviously we had different viewpoints on how this would move the thread on, and I didn't like it but I didn't think that an argument between us there would resolve my or your opinions.
But then followed by a healthy dose of OMGUS.klebian in 266 wrote:
I don't like this. First off, there was a DS discussion because korlash was recapping his opinions on the game. Also, I don't agree that you can excuse scumminess for meta and go on with it. And even more, this post seems like counter productive to discussion. It should never be the wrong time to discuss someone's behavior, and just because he is about to be replaced doesn't mean we can't do analysis on him.Crub wrote: Secondly WTF is DS even a topic of discussion right now? He's about to be replaced. I think we can safely put DS's play down to his VI meta and hope he get's replaced by someone who isn't a VI.
This got ignored. Why?Crub in 277 wrote:
Except that it wasn't fresh and there was no one around to respond to it in any case.klebian in 275 wrote:It is good to see a fresh analysis of past behavior, even if only to get some discussion going again...
klebian in 287 wrote:Crub: I didn't respond to that post after mine, because I felt that there was no good to argue that point.
Admittedly I have lurked. I would argue that jdodge and melodyman were both as lurky during that period. But this isn't quite good reasoning on my part; however, this game has been too much of a lurkfest, and I felt that I should at least vote and provide my reasons, which I did- something I would argue is better than not having stated an opinion at all (and I feel that you would agree, in that you would find me significantly scummier if I had taken no position on jdodge vs mm yesterday).Then he continues to lurk through the rest of the day. Comes back at the 11th hour to put a vote on. ie. He did absolutely the minimum he had to.
Crub honestly I ignored your vote because there was not much I could say to it. I tried asking you about it near the end of day 1 and your response seemed to me as if you were at least some what joking. Additionally, your vote at the beginning of the day seemed as random as your accusation seemed to me ('just putting it out there') so I chose to ignore it until you gave solid reasons that I could actually respond to.Day 2. He completely ignores my vote up until :
Yeah I'm obv scum for committing to how I feel about someone's alignment.klebian in 506 wrote:... is that all you're going to say?
I'm gonnavote: crubas well, because you're pointlessly wasting our time and there is a fixed deadline which is obviously getting closer and closer but discussion is not really picking up
As you may note, a number of players, including Justin and TSN, asked you to clarify on your vote. Ross expressed some suspicion of my posts in the beginning of the day but you ignored these so they seemed to be different from what you were thinking, so in effect, he also didn't see where you were coming from.
Regarding the "Yeah I'm obv scum for committing to how I feel about someone's alignment." This was clearly not my argument. What was happening around that time was you asking for people what they thought of me, generally people saying they didn't see the scumminess and asking you to clarify, and you didn't. Korlash voted you for ignoring people and you lulzed. My vote on you was obviously an attempt to get some actual information that I could sufficiently respond to (which I did get a few pages later).
I had given my reason, I guess you didn't find it enough. As has been expressed by others, I OMGUSed you because I felt that you were just wasting time calling me scummy and saying next to nothing else. This was my actual basis, that you were not being vocal about what you should have been and the hope that a second vote would pressure you to do so. This is compared to your basis, which was my being "obv scum".
And yet he doesn't explain. Hypocritical much? Oh and now back into lurk mode Yay for klebian.klebian in 514 wrote:also i don't frankly care whether my OMGUS makes you not feel better about my alignment because I have some actual basis behind the vote
In 515, you posted, in response to that last quote of mine
As I said later, I'm not exactly sure what you were referring to. Which vote did I overreact to? If it was a vote on me, obviously you can't quite use this as reasoning as the overreaction would have occurred... after you made the vote on me.Over-reaction to one vote for (seemingly) baseless or bogus reasons, I find to be a scum tell. <3
Regarding
I never claimed this makes you scum. Unlike what you had been doing, I had not been accusing anyone of being scum and not explained. However, I had voted you on the thinking that a vote would get information. I know you're aware that a vote doesn't necessarily imply that i think you are scum.Crub wrote:If you disagree, fair enough, if you think that makes me scum, please explain.-
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I feel that this is an important point. I am reasoning similarly seeing his questions to me asking why his behavior implied that he is scum when I had made no implication that I believed he was. I think this is more interesting to note than scummy that Crub seems to have this paranoia in these 2 separate but similar situations of being accused of scum where there is no accusation or even an implication.Justin Playfair wrote: Crub,
Well I wasn’t making a case on you being scum, at least not as yet. But I am a bit curious now why you would think my questions to Skitzer, trying to discern the reasoning behind his statement defending you implied that I believe you to be scum.-
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Not sure what you mean here. If you see here, some people consider acting against the interest of town a viable reason toCrub wrote: Whatever.lynch, and a plurality of people believe this is part of the reason to lynch. On the other hand, I am merely voting you on the belief that you were acting against the interest of the town (being too vague about your suspicions on me) and in the hope that this vote would stop you from doing so.-
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Justin
At the first, I was trying to show that it was entirely viable for me to vote someone NOT JUST because I thought he was scum, as a lot of crub's 'defense' for himself against my vote was essentially 'this means you think i'm scummy but what i've done isn't necessarily scummy'.
At the second, When I placed my vote on Crub, it seemed a lot like he was just dilly dallying and when people addressed him he pretty much shrugged them off (his lulz post to korlash). My vote was an attempt to force him to be more explicit (I had said "... is that all you're going to say?
I'm gonna vote: crub as well, because you're pointlessly wasting our time and there is a fixed deadline which is obviously getting closer and closer ")
Finally in 554, crub posted some reasons. He accused me of OMGUS and of being hypocritical, made that statement about how my vote implied my belief he was scum, and as a whole elaborated much more than he had. With this I was able to actually respond to him (579) rather than him thinking I was ignoring his vote on me. This was what I had wanted, something I could respond to, so I felt my vote had done what I had wanted of it, and so I unvoted.-
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klebian Mafia Scum
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klebian Mafia Scum
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klebian Mafia Scum
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klebian Mafia Scum
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I'm not seeing much of a case on crub or TSN, their argument looks like 2 townies, 1 much less interested in the argument than the other. I could see this at distancing but this doesn't look that much to me like that at the moment.
On the other hand, I support a k7 wagon. His reasons for voting have seen entirely contrived. Especially amusing is how he unvotes jdodge, who he has been voting for since the beginning of the day, and puts his vote instead on TSN, while JD, based on k7's reasoning in 640, is equally or more guilty for the actions that he has cited in that post. I also don't like his use of 'near the deadline' to describe when tsn and jd started voting crub, when it was a week ago that it happened.
Additionally, he doesn't seem to realize that yesterday, he participated in the same type of deadline lynch. 5 days before deadline hit, he placed the third vote on jdodge, for successive reasons of "fuck it", "he hasn't posted anything in ages, mm made mistakes but he should get another chance", and then confirming his vote when jdodge pretty much ignores his wagon (this one I am ok with). The problem here is that he makes these posts right after saying he is deciding between tsn and mm. He later goes back, in the second post of reasoning I mentioned, and explains why he sees jdodge as scummier than the other two, but I feel that k7 is just following the wagons in this game.
vote: k7
I'd rather see this lynch than a crub or TSN lynch.-
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klebian Mafia Scum
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forgot to address that. I was waiting for you in the same manner as neko: you had said that you would look through and see if there was anyone scummier. Later, when asked by neko and I, you said that you would wait until someone scummier jumped out.
I didn't like this change in position either
mainly what I was waiting for was you to clarify whether your stance had changed or not.-
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klebian Mafia Scum
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Actually, your saying that put me in a catch 22. If I voted you, lo and behold, you were right so I must be scum. If I didn't vote you, well, it was because I 'knew' that I would be 'outed as scum' if I did.Crub wrote:
Yes because obviously I want people voting for me . Of course I said it in order to pre-empt it from happening.neko2086 wrote:By stating this, you more or less set klebian upnotto vote for you, so if you were hoping that he would so that you could add to his case, why did you even bother saying it? This seems like one of those things best kept to yourself rather than shared with everyone else because it requires a genuine response rather than a calculated one.-
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klebian Mafia Scum
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it doesn't make me scum but it puts me in a difficult situationKorlash wrote:I don't see how it makes you scum not voting him... Nor do i see how him being right makes you scum... Bad falty logick... keep up the good work! XD
basically i'm saying such a 'prediction' was completely unnecessary and put double the meaning on how I voted-
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klebian Mafia Scum
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we've played in 2 games together. You were scum in the last one. This isn't supporting my vote on you but rather, your meta is useless. K7, I addressed that the post after I voted you.killa seven wrote:
klebian allways singles me out in every game i play with him, his lurking in this game is is noticable, he says "im kinda waiting for k7" i ask him what hes waiting for he ignores me then i post a vote on tsn instead of crub and he all the sudden votes me, it seems kinda suspicious he would all the sudden try and vote me right before the deadline. i wasnt just "randomly hopping on a wagon" i really thought j dodge was scum and when it came down close 2 the deadline and the votes were so close i decided 2 pick tsn because he looked scummy 2 me the way him and jdodge were attacking crub. now that jdodge turned up town, i dont know about it anymore.neko2086 wrote:Seeing as how we're on D3 and haven't caught any scum, any reasoning behind your vote would be much appreciated. Looking back, I didn't really see anything indicating that you were leaning in that direction, so I'm assuming it has something to do with recent events.
Also, did you not know you were going to be gone during deadline?
K7, I'd still like an answer to my previous question: can you explain why klebian's reasons for voting you are "bull shit"?
I think that's a pretty good start for today.-
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klebian Mafia Scum
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klebian Mafia Scum
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I will first respond to thisJustin Playfair wrote: Klebian,
The above two posts seem defensive in a way that doesn’t comfortably correspond to town play. If you truly thought Crub was scum his statement about you shouldn’t have bothered you. You would have voted him in the honest belief that he was scum and his statement would have been shown to be scummy nonsense. If you thought another person was most worthy of your vote you would have voted that other person, perhaps pointing out to Crub that your vote wasn’t going on him because he wasn’t quite number one on your list.
These posts have bothered me since I first read them, but I couldn’t quite put my finger on why until now.