Gistou Eternal

[Cerberus v666]

O.o

*sigh*

[Cerberus v666]

But you would have NEVER been able to get me lynched.

You would have suffered forever having to deal with KNOWING I was scum and being unable to do anything about it!

[Cerberus v666]

*sigh*

I was fucking BP too, if we hadn't been backed into a fucking corner with the watcher+faction cop I wouldn't have had to use my redirect, and thus would have at least forced town to lynch me today.

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Also, there must be a mole in there. I'm serious. 2x BP+cop+watcher+x other patsies to share results, who may have their own powers+masonry too OP. That is quite literally stronger than our scum team by itself, without accounting for the rest of the town.

[Cerberus v666]

your claim/reaction to the cop was way more believable than LLD's imo. i'm assuming town killed you just because Nosferatu and SS's flip implied Isolationists were primarily Nosferatu scum.

Yeah. An LLD kill made more sense though, because the wulden part of our win con should have implied that wulden were DEFINITELY anti town. Ah well.

shaddup drixx, you can't play in the dead thread if you didn't play in the game.



<3

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Cephrir: At least we won't have to wait until the end of this game to find out whether or not our faction won. Unless <redacted> recruits tonight of course.

@mastin: Without a mole, if the team played well, then they wouldn't be high priority targets? It's only with the mole/all the unnecessary claims from their faction that made them targets.

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Also, Cerb's gonna be mega-pissed when he comes in and realizes there was a second cop in the game which had a guilty on him from N1 so his lifespan was limited anyway.

Oh, and not super pissed about that. I stand by my position that cops are dumb in a game with the sort of mechanical checks you gave everyone access to. It's just a lot more interesting to make people work together to figure out the implications of all the information they'll gather from their checks, than to just give faction results.

I mean, I was so confident that you had that whole cool system in place specifically so your game wouldn't possibly be ruled by simple cop checks, that I didn't even consider any possible anti-cop play.

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You also have to keep in mind, this game was made at least partially on the (accurate) assumption "towns are stupid, scum are not".

That's one of the things i take in mind when i townhunt, of course my reads arent that great on D1, but i try my hardest on D1. I usually play like this because D1 is the only day im guaranteed to be alive.

Also, basically everything I said all game long regarding my views on optimal play were true.

Like, you guys literally had the ability to create an x man masonry with uber powers, and you didn't do it.

I mean, it worked out because you found scum, but it was absolutely sub optimal role usage overall.

Also, sorry beeboy. :-/ I saw you asking for help when she announced the guilty on you, but I was busy and didn't jump in to tell you to take the scum claiming path, and you were posting WAY too fast for me to have really had a chance to advise you.

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Hey mastin, can you at least tell me if KC/Bacde was even going to bother watching Luna tonight? Like, was my night action of any value?

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Your reasoning was good Luna, but it shouldn't have been. Seems counterproductive to make scum faction names obviously not the same as town when you have all this other obfuscation going on.

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Like, beeboy SHOULD have been able to claim his faction and get away with it until a scum flip happened, because of the sheer number of factions.

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But seriously... thanks for killing me.
It was becoming hell in that PT.
Mastin can even tell you there were like TWO times (i think?) i considered replacing out coz it was bothering me a lot.

Sort of had to. If it weren't for the threat from your PT, I would have wanted us to kill LLD in hopes she was scum and to prevent her from rolecopping us, since all our remaining roles would show up as undeniably scummy.

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*sigh*

Mastin can you please spoil me, because I don't feel like waiting for you to post flips.

[Cerberus v666]

Also cuz then I can just judge your setup with full knowledge and move on. <3

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*sigh* also, whoever killed me, fuck you! I was looking forward to living in spite of hard defending my buddy for an entire day.

It was going to be glorious.

@Nahdia: Well...you should have had that discussion in place long before then. Like, you should have been the one in the thread at day start outing luna's results.

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But yeah, i had lots of fun, this was a very interesting setup, the thing that was saddening to me is all the people crying "OMG I CANT READ MECHANICS SO IDK IF DED PPL ARE TOWN" sorry if that sounds mean but that's how i felt dealing with everyone in D2.

ABSOLUTELY.

Most annoying thing ever.

On D1, sure, it was reasonable, but after town had *4* flips to look at, PLUS their own, it should have been easy to identify whether or not you were town...

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Mhm. And your win con was deliberately bastard.

The connection between the new human treaty/survivorish roles was kinda phrased in a deceptive fashion. Cephrir thought the individual nosferatu could win with the undead, because the wording of the win cons were the same, and he was correct...I disagreed with him because each of the win cons specifically said "faction win con: win con details" instead of just saying "win con details", so I thought the faction win con: part was what distinguished the factions.

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Eh, it would have made the day shorter. Should have disappeared for 1 hour, decided whether or not you believed your result, and if you did, fake claimed the strong willed/empowered/whatever thing to make sure you got your guilty lynched. The only downside to you making that claim(since a cop is naturally not long for this world in a multifactional game) is you'd be risking getting lynched if you were wrong, but you could EASILY avoid that lynch simply by virtue of the fact that it's suicidal as scum, in a game this large, to fake claim a guilty and leave themselves no outs on D2.

So yeah, actually, I guess there was no downside to the strong-willed fake claim thing. It would have also kept scum from wasting their time roleblocking/redirecting you, and FORCED them into killing you, thus allowing a watcher to catch second scum 100% of the time(if they didn't claim for no reason).

@beeboy: Yeah, sorry man. Cop's are dumb, so...yeah, can't just roll over to their guilties. *shrug*

I'm also pretty amazed that the town actually rolled with the redirection uncertainty thing for so long. Like, it was CLEARLY optimal to lynch SS, and yet we had LLD up to 9 votes. She was 2 town votes away from us quickhammering her before there had been any vote counts, thus easily letting us get away with it.

[Cerberus v666]

Next time I get a guilty on me I am giving up immediately lol. That's what I learned this game.

Dang though day 1 in this game was so fun >.>

pedit: I hate cop as a mafia role tbh.

Yep. I mean, it's just a dumb role. In UNIMUM(The game which should never be mentioned again, but which I'm going to mention here) dram gave us all some awesome roles, but we basically just perverted them all into versions of cop checks, because it basically wrecks the game in favor of town half the time.

[Cerberus v666]

So yeah, actually, I guess there was no downside to the strong-willed fake claim thing. It would have also kept scum from wasting their time roleblocking/redirecting you, and FORCED them into killing you, thus allowing a watcher to catch second scum 100% of the time(if they didn't claim for no reason).

Yeah i still have no idea why Klingy claimed...

No idea.

Then again, well. One sec. I'm gonna go grab something from the scum PT. :p

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Wait no I can't, cause it'd spoil things. But, basically, the amount of information we had as a result of people just claiming things all over the place was absurd. And that was without anyone on our team, as far as I knew, actually looking for crumbs actively.

There's absolutely NO reason why anyone should claim ANYTHING on D1 unless they're at L-1. :p

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Tho im not sure if i can talk about things that were said in our PT here, but ABR did leave a very bad impression on me.

ABR is an asshole in PT's with teammates, consistently. He berates people for their play all the time.

Pretty standard for him.

In Bloodborne, I specifically did not recruit him to the neighborhood I had specifically because I didn't want to deal with him outside of the game thread, even though I KNEW he was town.

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my favorite moment was Wake88 calling for all other Northern Tribes people to claim.

Lol yeah. I was very much hoping they would all do it. The people who were human claiming were doing it in numbers too small to be helpful for recruiting, since the odds were likely you'd just run into someone elses recruit.

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Anyways, so yeah, two factions are down to a single member now, and both have a recruit left? (unless you undead used your recruit already?)

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I didn't really care who was in your hood I just wanted to look like I was trying to figure out who was redirecting me >_>

I had a really solid force fighting against my lynch despite having a guilty on me though which I thought was pretty cool.

Yep. Fyi, in every game we play in together I'm going to make fun of you for deliberately choosing to argue redirector in this game.

@Mastin: spoilers yo!!!! Seriously, I don't read games I'm not in, so...yeah, there is no benefit to me not being spoiled. I'm not going to try to figure it out because I don't care anymore.

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Btw, i did ask mastin about the dual action redirect, i didnt get a concrete answer, and i figured that only ONE of my actions could be redirected, but i decided to keep pushing coz i needed to know if you flip town, i'd have guaranteed scum in the hood.

Oh, that too!! You ran into one of my pet peeves: I HATE PEOPLE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT GAME MECHANICS. I mean, in this case I KNEW you were wrong, but even without that knowledge I would have still mentioned that same chance. Like, I ask mods loads of questions about the roles I'm given even if it seems super straightforward.

Though, as town, I would have just sheeped the guilty, tbh. :p I would have said " x, y, z could be problems, but are low likelihood, and in thr case of a redirector, they'll know they're not in a masonry" Done.

Also, you were second scum faction apparently. I was legitimately concerned that you guys were a scum faction, until I saw drams flip, then I stopped being concerned, but apparently I shouldn't have relaxed. :p

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Agreed beeboy. We were all, except Cephrir, entirely too defensive.

In my defense, I don't push people early game unless a hydra partner makes me, and without Drixx around to point me at someone I was just kinda there.

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I didn't really care who was in your hood I just wanted to look like I was trying to figure out who was redirecting me >_>

I had a really solid force fighting against my lynch despite having a guilty on me though which I thought was pretty cool.

Yep. Fyi, in every game we play in together I'm going to make fun of you for deliberately choosing to argue redirector in this game.

@Mastin: spoilers yo!!!! Seriously, I don't read games I'm not in, so...yeah, there is no benefit to me not being spoiled. I'm not going to try to figure it out because I don't care anymore.

The only person scum reading me day one publicly scum reading me was StormBlade I didn't see "I was framed" was a good excuse >_>

No....framed wasn't the excuse? Scum claim and rely on towns ignorance of which factions are town and which were scum. That's the excuse you needed to use. *shrug* then if you got lynched anyways we could be in here blaming mastin for giving us a bad faction name.

Instead, she gets to be all like "well, from a design standpoint there was no reason why he couldn't have claimed that, so it's not my fault", when in reality, isolationist sounds so obviously anti town especially in the face of a whole faction that's trying to create a treaty...that the result itself is fairly damning (and should have been assumed to be damning by that whole faction, basically enough people to make it nearly impossible to force through a lynch on anyone else)

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You're right about that mastin. I specifically used that argument to tell luna why it made sense for the redirector to only affect their targets role usage.

Unfortunately (well, fortunately, actually ) Mathblade pointed out the self redirect thing for me, so I could gracefully back away from the SS defense. Unfortunately, the lynch happened sorta accidentally on purpose (as in, the first people to vote didn't realize how close to lynch he was), and I was just waiting for a vc to vote since town me would never risk an accidental lynch by voting without knowing the VC, so I wasn't able to distance myself further by actually voting for him.

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Copper, stop being an ass. Seriously. Absolutely unnecesary.

[Cerberus v666]

Copper, stop being an ass. Seriously. Absolutely unnecesary.

I am being honest, should I quote some of your post games Cerb.? Now that is some real rotten posting and you weren't even in my team to judge why I think they were so bad, so kindly keep your platitudes to yourself.

You're welcome to do so copper, and I'll gladly tell you why what I've said is acceptable, and what you said wasn't.
And, I saw their play in the game, and decisions that were made, etc, SO....I can understand why you're upset at them for the way they played, HOWEVER the sentiment of "I never want to play with you again" is completely bullshit. It shows you're a shitty person who this site would be better off without, which makes me sad, because I thought you were cool. :/

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I mean...no matter how harsh I have been with individuals for their play, I have NEVER told someone I don't want to play with them ever again.

That's an asshole thing to say, period.

Anyways. That's all I have to say on that subject.

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Yeah day was over when we didn't get up to 9 not us votes on LLD before the first VC. :p everything else was just noise and posturing.

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Lol, I didn't even notice that.

Once you did that, you shoulda told us and we woulda just hard bussed you then. :p saved us all so much time lol.

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did you kill him or just visit him?

oh ok I can see now, I was redirected, my results don't match storm's flip.

Let's see if Nosferatu did what we failed bum bum bummmm

Wouldn't make sense for it to work, since they have evidence already of what redirection took place.

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Holy shit I wish I were alive. The extreme level of incomprehension about what's going on is hurting me to read.

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the people parsing all the flood of information we got all died last night lmao.

Word. Now everyone is mainly having trouble solidly putting things together to understand what actually occurred.

I mean, I'm not being too harsh on them, right? I do have insider information etc, but I THINK from the information they have they should be able to put all the pieces together.'

Bacde watched Luna
Toogeloo BG'd luna.
Bacde saw Nosferatu and himself visit Luna, and did not see Toogeloo.
Luna died.
Nosferatu claims he visited Stormblade with his role.
Stormblade died.

Luna dying through protection means: Toogeloo is lying scum, was redirected, or was roleblocked. The first two are unlikely because luna was a high priority watcher target, and toogeloo was a low priority redirect target.
Bacde not seeing Toogeloo means: Toogeloo is lying scum, was redirected, was roleblocked, or Bacde himself was redirected. We already established the first two as unlikely, so Toogeloo was roleblocked, or Bacde was redirected.

No reason to assume two redirectors. Most likely that one of Bacde or Nosferatu was redirected.

If Bacde was redirected, and Nosferatu was not, he saw Nosferatu alone visit a town corpse. Nosferatu guilty.
If Nosferatu was redirected, and Bacde was not, he saw Nosferatu alone visit a town corpse. Nosferatu guilty.

These hold true regardless of whether Toogeloo was roleblocked or not, but not seeing toogeloo makes it more likely that Bacde was redirected than Nosferatu.

That's where they should be at, right? I'm not using any information they're not privy to. They're just not seeing it.

[Cerberus v666]

I mean, I KNOW that I redirected Bacde to me, so what he actually saw was Nosferatu visiting my corpse, which Nosferatu could easily use to claim to have vigged me, but THEY don't know that.

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Man, I was sure I had that in that write up, but apparently I didn't. Yes, or Luna was strongman killed, but that's not relevant to determining whether or not Bacde's results are a guilty on Nosferatu.

[Cerberus v666]

Well. That should basically clear everything up. Once he claims that, he'll know that either I redirected Luna, OR he was redirected himself.

If I redirected Luna, Nosferatu is lying about who he targeted.
If I redirected Bacde, Nosferatu was seen visiting a 2x BP corpse.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, or I killed Luna. That's also possible. ^^

[Cerberus v666]

Well. That should basically clear everything up. Once he claims that, he'll know that either I redirected Luna, OR he was redirected himself.

If I redirected Luna, Nosferatu is lying about who he targeted.
If I redirected Bacde, Nosferatu was seen visiting a 2x BP corpse.

Idk, seeing how town has been lately, i dont think they'll come to this conclusion.
But you never know... one can hope.
P-Edit: Nah it's impossible if they read your role PM.

But then again i never bothered asking if i could use my role action and my factional action at the same time.

I could have used my role action and factional action at the same time. They don't know that, and they'll probably assume I couldn't have, but they'd be wrong.

Had I lived until the end game, I would have hurt town so badly. *sigh* Kill+Redirect every night in a small pool is devastating.

[Cerberus v666]

Fuck me, just discovered a second mod error.

I BARELY missed a mod error on one check, but I missed a second mod error, because I had my notes wrong on that player's information.

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Mastin: Can I make a bah post saying:

"Ugh. I spend an entire day defending my scum partner, and I don't even get the pleasure of wriggling my way out of the lynch I deserved."

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Done! They're gonna just ignore it and make me sad.

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OMG I DIDN'T EVEN PLAN IT THAT WAY!!

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RAM probably redirected your action with someone elses

Checking the flips:
RAM did NOT redirect anyone's action on N2. This is from their role PM:“When you perform

no night actions

(checks do count as a night action), during the night,

you are immune to nightkills.

”, and they did get killed on N2.

...

How did A50 arrive at the exact opposite conclusion? My death means I was strongman killed or performed an action.

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We should have organized it, so there would be page top with like 10 bah posts from all the hydra heads and stuff.

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Holy shit Bacde is throwing.


....

Like....why the hell do you communicate a mod error that way?

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Lol yeah. Just so ridiculous.

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Holy shit, A50 isn't even reading any of the flips correctly. None of them say what he's saying they say.

[Cerberus v666]

Well, right now both our factions chances of winning are rapidly dwindling based on the fact that nobody seems to be able to communicate properly.

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Heartless and Mathblade are disappointing me.

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*sigh* I'm very disappointed in the players this game. They're extremely vote happy. It's like they haven't even realized the game has had 10 deaths and no longer has a huge lynch threshold.

[Cerberus v666]

Cephrir, please help me understand why this town has decided Luna must have been killed by a strongman but figures I sent in the kill, even though I'm not a strongman.

...

[Cerberus v666]

Cephrir, please help me understand why this town has decided Luna must have been killed by a strongman but figures I sent in the kill, even though I'm not a strongman.

...

Factional strongman ability?

Factional strongman is actually dumb, because they saw we has a ninja, and thus it negates all the BP in the game until our entire faction is dead.

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Also can you explain why rachmarie keeps going on about her check when my flipped role makes it clear that her check doesn't matter???

Pedit: pfft. Super ridiculous. I've never seen a town try to hard to avoid lynching their guilties.

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Yeah, I'm only following because I want to see if my redirect, which was meant to catch whoever killed me if someone did go after me, actually ends in THE RIGHT scum death.

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Well, there need to be a lot of scum deaths before their faction is wiped out in order for them to become anti-town.

Like we're looking at 3 day/night phases of all scum deaths, without their faction getting wiped out, for it to happen.

[Cerberus v666]

Mathblade, please catch up with this thread and explain to me why you didn't get nosferatu lynched yesterday instead of your teamate. You had all the tools! :/

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the people parsing all the flood of information we got all died last night lmao.

Word. Now everyone is mainly having trouble solidly putting things together to understand what actually occurred.

I mean, I'm not being too harsh on them, right? I do have insider information etc, but I THINK from the information they have they should be able to put all the pieces together.'

Bacde watched Luna
Toogeloo BG'd luna.
Bacde saw Nosferatu and himself visit Luna, and did not see Toogeloo.
Luna died.
Nosferatu claims he visited Stormblade with his role.
Stormblade died.

Luna dying through protection means: Toogeloo is lying scum, was redirected, or was roleblocked. The first two are unlikely because luna was a high priority watcher target, and toogeloo was a low priority redirect target.
Bacde not seeing Toogeloo means: Toogeloo is lying scum, was redirected, was roleblocked, or Bacde himself was redirected. We already established the first two as unlikely, so Toogeloo was roleblocked, or Bacde was redirected.

No reason to assume two redirectors. Most likely that one of Bacde or Nosferatu was redirected.

If Bacde was redirected, and Nosferatu was not, he saw Nosferatu alone visit a town corpse. Nosferatu guilty.
If Nosferatu was redirected, and Bacde was not, he saw Nosferatu alone visit a town corpse. Nosferatu guilty.

These hold true regardless of whether Toogeloo was roleblocked or not, but not seeing toogeloo makes it more likely that Bacde was redirected than Nosferatu.

That's where they should be at, right? I'm not using any information they're not privy to. They're just not seeing it.

Actually, mainly this post. :p I'M SO CONFUSED BY WHY YOU GUYS LET LLD DIE!!!

[Cerberus v666]

This thread isn't spoiled. There is another spoiled thread, which you can request access to. So some of us here are spoiled. But nothing I pointed out in that post matters spoiler wise, it was just an available out that you guys didn't take.

Anywaus, the whole explanation is above. :p

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Lol, I misread your last post. Thought you were asking me to explain when you weren't busy. And alright, I'm eagerly awaiting some clarity.

[Cerberus v666]

Well, they have two public human claims that are very obviously true to pick from, and I don't believe anybody else will be able to recruit tonight. Their best choice to recruit is TWIE, since his racial check is a cop on the cult AND wuldens, but he would be a stab in the dark really, so it's unlikely. They're not talking in our PT at all (I think LQ may have abandoned Suzune), so I don't know what thoughts they have...but they do have a nice summary of all known information which includes those two known humans marked as such.

Anyways, a recruit should *definitely* be happening tonight, because they're simply too vulnerable

I'm not certain that not lynched bacde or LLD would have ruined your cred. There was/is no good reason to be suspicious of Bacde or LLD *over* an actual guilty result. That's basically what happened yesterdsy, two circumstantial guilties versus one ACTUAL guilty, and town went with the circumstantial one(probably because all the people who would have been yelling about it in a more convincing way died that night).

Also, Mathblade: thank you for pointing out the self redirection thing. I was deliberately ignoring it in my attempt to get the lynch to pivot to LLD, but once town stopped caring enough to actually talk I didn't have a graceful way to disengage until you brought that up for me.

Not that it mattered of course, or perhaps it may have even doomed me since I wasn't quite as obviously SS' partner, therefore the cult had cause to target me

.

[Cerberus v666]

Slipped? How so?

[Cerberus v666]

Scum pretending to be town claim redirection in closed setups.

The fact RAM was so adamant that SS wouldn't claim it as scum meant it was impractical in this scenario.
The parenthesis seemed like an after thought of not being able to be that sure.
The only way this happens is if RAM is scum with SS.
Means that scum team has a redirector. The way RAM is faking that and their hypothesis and how they were not thinking about it meant RAM scum who did not redirect Luna. Since Wulden don't have a redirector it made sense.

You're wrong.

Normally you're right, but you're sorta ignoring the most important part of the equation here - the fact that in this particular setup, there is no actual reason to not agree with the result.

The guilty here wasn't actually a guilty until a flip occurred. The faction result in and of itself meant nothing, it was just a name.

So...yeah. Scum caught by guilties claim redirector in closed setups BECAUSE GUILTIES ARE ACTUALLY GULITIES...so they have no other choice. In this game, it was merely a faction result, NOT a clear "this slot is anti-town".

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Sure. However the tactical point still stands. *shrug* I guarantee you I would have arrived at the same conclusion were I town. The only difference is I would have 1) considered the self redirection possibility, and 2)not defended them on those grounds for nearly that long.

The fundamental argument that the call they made was not appropriate for this game in particular would have remained though.

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So...to anyone who's actually reading along here, I want to hear other positions regarding Mathblades belief that it wasn't reasonable for town!me to consider the scumclaim response to the factional cop on SS as the more reasonable play for anyone to make.

Was it a display of inside knowledge? Did it make sense in the context of this game in particular?

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At some point you're just doing their work for them, mastin. Like, maybe you ought to start analyzing ISO's and scumhunting

But she's pretty good at that, too! Why shouldn't she scumhunt like the rest of them?

In all srs, though, I think you're doing the most that you need to re: VCs, Mastin. I think anything else is stuff they need to do themselves (though if you

really

want to you could always make a separate topic or folder for yourself to put them in).

re: the game itself, at least they're thinking about the cult a bit.

Isolationists should be all gone now, right? Or was this 4-3 or 4-4...no, 8 scum (even split into 4 teams) seems pretty low for a 28-player game. I mean, it's already ~25%, but it still seems low to me. (there's the cult, but still)

Spoiler: Spoiler for reals, meant for Voidedmafia, so only check if you REALLY want to know!

There's one Isolationist left(with a recruit unused)

Spoiler: Another spoiler below, if you want to know the state of any other anti town factions/the initial game state of faction numbers

Wulden have 3 left(and have used their recruit), and the cult has 3...but one of the cults members is a wulden, so their faction is pretty much no longer able to win. Game started at 4-4-1 with 1 recruit for each of the non cult factions, and a non-consecutive one success per race recruit for the cult.

Mastin, your VC's are a delight and are absolutely the best formatting I've ever seen, and also are the most you can reasonably do without messing with the game state. You basically did all the work that I usually do when I bother to do any sort of rudimentary VCA(though I usually don't do formal VCA, it's more like vote tracking and judging reasons given for votes and whether or not peoples play makes sense based on their priors), and it would have been INCREDIBLY helpful in either manipulating the data to frame people or accurately finding the other faction(s).

[Cerberus v666]

(Someone shold come and finish filling up shadowrun mafia so I can have something to distract me from this game)

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What mastin said. You guys had a fantastic fake claim and didn't even bother using it. Giving up was super shitty, since no matter how scumread you were, you had a recruit available and just needed to live through one more day in order to at least give your team a chance at winning.

I'm actually super irritated about the way everything played out after our death, from your decision to shoot rather than recruit even though you were THE most scum read slot in the entire game, to the fact that you guys didn't even talk to one another after you were alone much less to the rest of the game.

We even handed you a guilty on a silver platter, with your slot KNOWING that I was killed by Nosferatu based on the watch results, and you did nothing to get them lynched.

It was pretty bad man. Expected more out of you guys.

And I've vented. Still <3 you, now I'm gonna go away and be distracted from this game by another game, one which currently needs a replacement, only 20 pages in if someone wants to join!

[Cerberus v666]

It's okay. I disappoint myself all the time, and my words were certainly harsher than you deserve, I've just been watching the game forever and hoping you'd manage to live till tonight and it's super disappointing that you didn't. Idk, I'd like to like have a post loss discussion about play and such so we can all get better, but I don't really even know how much of your play was because you guys gave up, and how much was deliberate, so, like...I can't offer advice for the future.

[Cerberus v666]

Ah. Yeah, you basically missed the entire opportunity you had to turn reads around on your slot then, by actively participating in the game and scumhunting and such when the focus wasn't all on you. :/ that's bad luck there.

[Cerberus v666]

There's a very good chance they're winning still, unless one member is lynched, and the other roleblocked tonight while they get shot. They have a guaranteed recruit tonight in one of the three living undead, or the lycan on the wulden team., and then a second recruit. The biggest problem for anti-town are the champions, who no longer have any counters remaining.

[Cerberus v666]

Imagine...if I were still unemployed and hadn't decided to take mafia slow going forward.

You haven't experienced this Mathblade, but I'm like...a very high volume poster, usually keep pace with the post count of Titus in the games we've played together.

[Cerberus v666]

Spoiled thread is smaller than this one(15 pages), but I feel it also had more content. I stopped following the game though, so...yeah.

[Cerberus v666]

Toogeloo:

what's frustrating is that Expedience had a guilty on Nosferatu N2 (an ambiguous guilty but still a result that didn't fit in with what he knew made someone town), AND bacde watched him kill me, AND watched him recruit ASOIAF, but town was too dumb to lynch him then shoot ASOIAF that night, and the cult is now like 90% going to win.

Regarding him shooting me: like....Nosferatu friggin claimed to have visited one corpse, and bacde was redirected from watching a second corpse, to a third, and all he saw visit that corpse was myself and nosferatu. You, toogeloo, claimed to have visited thr person he was redirected from, SO he knew he wasn't watching that person . The only thing that makes sense waa for bacde to have been redirected from luna to one of RAM or Stormblade. If RAM, then the kill was clearly performed by nosferatu. If stormblade, the kill waa clearly performed by nosferatu using a strongman kill, because RAM flipped as a non strongman.

Like...he was SUPER guilty, and obviously so, and town couldn't figure it out.

[Cerberus v666]

It's hard to justify third party hunting on Day 2 of the game. In a multi-ball game, town has to take it's guilties when it gets them. With SS and LLD both having guilties, hard guilties, and the fact that literally NOTHING was known about the cult, town has to take it's lynches presented to them. From my perspective, I thought Wulden were cult due to the flavor in my PM, so I thought lynching LLD was going to be a Cult flip.

It's not so cut and dry to assume that town know Nosferatu was Cult and could have stopped him on Day2/Night2, especially with all the confirmed scum we were dealing with. Discussion got stifled on other topics most likely not to derail from scum lynches.

Do the Cult have a Night Kill? I really don't think they should, but if they do, then yeah, they will probably win.

Yes. They have a night kill, and a non-consecutive recruit, usable only 1x on each race. They can't kill and recruit simultaneously, BUT they have already recruited one wulden member, and if they recruit the wulden teams lycan, those two would allow them to have two night kills one night, and one kill+one recruit the next.

And this was D3 that they had all this information, not D2. Vigs did a shit job too, no reason why LLD should have lived through N2.

Also, the irritating thing isn't so much the fact that town lynched different scum.

It's the fact that NOBODY put the pieces together and called nosferatu out on his BS, and he ended up taking *two* vig shots to remove.

Only team that probably deserves to win right now is the wulden imo, but they're fucked because they're basically guaranteed to lose a member to the cult tonight, and then the rest of the cult will make sure that the last member dies, leaving them in control of both kills.
Anyways, the only shot town has is the double vigs they have, who will take a total of 5 shots from scum to remove, because all the strongmen have been killed.

On the other hand, Toogeloo...you fucking nailed EVERY town slot in the game on D3 I believe. The only person you were wrong about was rb, who had just been recruited the night before, so everything you were reading off him was town.

[Cerberus v666]

Are you referring to this reads list I had?

Just a quick overview of the player list...
1. Heartless (cool with this slot for now)
3. Bacde (cool with this slot for now)
7. Almost50 (cool with this slot for now)
8. Nosferatu (could lynch)
10. Wayward Thinker (could lynch)
12. davesaz (could lynch)
14. Wake88 (cool with this slot for now)
15. Tim (could lynch)
16. No Retreat (cool with this slot for now)
17. A Song of Ice and Fire (scum read)
20. rb (cool with this slot for now)
23. Expedience (could lynch)
25. TheWayItEnds (could lynch)
26. DrippingGoofball (cool with this slot for now)
27. Toogeloo (scum read)
28. RachMarie (cool with this slot for now)

Yep. Every single slot you're cool with is town, and all the ones you could lynch, are scum. Except RB, who got culted that night, so what you were basing it off of was 100% town play. Solved the entire game.

Mastin, get this man spoiled thread access, he asked for it awhile ago!!

[Cerberus v666]

oh wait. Not that list. Hmm. Maybe I misread something. There are some people in your could lynch who aren't scum. :-/

[Cerberus v666]

Is the spoiled thread bigger than this thread?

What I mean is, if there is more game discussion going on there than here,

I'd like access I guess lol.

Having read through this topic, a lot of game related discussion seems to have died down.

I guess he did give a conditional request. :-/

[Cerberus v666]

Be spoiled Dan, be spoiled. It's better there.

[Cerberus v666]

The people who talk get spoiled. The ones who are silent didn't bother