Mafia 75: Return of the Mafia! TOWN WINS (really late)

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Well, shit, bm, I'm sorry I haven't convinced you personally. There are 25 players in this game, you hardly need my vote, and I'm not convinced by anything

you've

said.

Tell me

why

rosso, as scum, would make that claim, and I'll listen.

[Battle Mage]

TS, it seems to me you think I am scum no matter Rosso's alignment, so, then please explain why your vote isnt on me but on the biggest BW?

This. Granted, i agree totally with what TS is saying. I'd just like to see her put her money where her mouth is.

BM

if you agree with TS, why isnt your money there too?

Because i've got a lot of other candidates fitting the same, or different criteria for being scum. Furthermore, just because i recognise that you will come up smelling of faeces no matter what Rosso comes up as (but significantly worse imo if he comes up town) it doesnt mean you are necessarily scum.

IGMEOY

is all.

Oh and CKD- For someone who thinks the RC wagon is dubious, your attitude is nothing short of perplexing to me. 0.o

up until a page or two ago I wasnt really questionning the motivation of this wagon, as you say he has done this before....he is avoiding questions, and either lied about his claim or is just not paying any attention.

..but it doesnt make any sense if he is scum, why would he do it at this point in the game??..if/when we catch hiim in a lie then he would hang the following day, right? why would scum want to swap one for one?

Its about survival. Some claims can allow a mafioso to live for far longer than he would normally. Yeh he wont make it to endgame, but he'll last alot longer because of that claim, and in the meantime, can take part in mislynches and help the long-term efforts of his teammates. I've done it before. Albeit not as suicidally as Rosso seems to prefer.

..unless he is scum with you that is. I think you are indeed the Miller and I think that Rosso is useless...I think that he would be great for a vig testing.

Thats odd. I think you're the second person to make that assuation. Why would i be more likely scum if Rosso is? I dont quite follow the evidently pristine logic here...
And what do you mean by 'vig-testing'?

BM

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Actually no. At first he didnt make it clear that he would get a guilty on a Miller. If it was a gambit for me and Rosso as scumbuddies, you'd think he might have mentioned that little nugget of information with his claim, no? :p

Hey, you're right. Which is why the only scenario I could come up with that has rc as mafia doesn't make sense, because neither of you are playing it like he should if you're both scum.

As for claimed cult miller, that wasn't very clear. I meant, for rosso's claim to be accurate, you would be both cult and miller, because if the recruitment was delayed, you still would have been a miller.

[Battle Mage]

Well, shit, bm, I'm sorry I haven't convinced you personally. There are 25 players in this game, you hardly need my vote, and I'm not convinced by anything

you've

said.

Tell me

why

rosso, as scum, would make that claim, and I'll listen.

Dont get lippy with me, kid. You know exactly what i'm saying. If i cant see anything convincing in your arguments, why are you claiming to see something? I'm seeing inconsistency written all over this. Your reasoning has been decimated. You have no further comment?

Again, if you want to hear why Rosso does what Rosso does, you can ask him. I'm not his mom (thank god).
I've pointed out to you that he's got form, and you dont seem atall phased... 0.o

BM

[Battle Mage]

Actually no. At first he didnt make it clear that he would get a guilty on a Miller. If it was a gambit for me and Rosso as scumbuddies, you'd think he might have mentioned that little nugget of information with his claim, no? :p

Hey, you're right. Which is why the only scenario I could come up with that has rc as mafia doesn't make sense, because neither of you are playing it like he should if you're both scum.

As for claimed cult miller, that wasn't very clear. I meant, for rosso's claim to be accurate, you would be both cult and miller, because if the recruitment was delayed, you still would have been a miller.

his investigation took place on N1 apparently...

BM

[curiouskarmadog]

BM, surely if you can see Rosso as scum with this gambit...you can also see why a Rosso/BM scum pair gambit would be brillant (maybe why I doubt it).

[Battle Mage]

BM, surely if you can see Rosso as scum with this gambit...you can also see why a Rosso/BM scum pair gambit would be brillant (maybe why I doubt it).

ouch, was that last comment a jibe!?

ftr, if Rosso was my scumbuddy, i'd have requested replacement a LONG time ago... 0.o

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

You want me to not get lippy with you. Really.

I'm sorry, you're going to have to tell me where my reasonings gone wrong. All I see your argument shaking down to is that he lied before. How about he was lying in that game and was inspired by the role he received in this one?

Is it the fact that it was a cult cop, which is an unusual role, I'll admit, but not at all inconceivable in a game where there's a cult. If I had fakeclaimed cop in the past, would you say the next time I claimed cop that I must be lying?

I'm sure asking rc why he claimed cult cop as scum is going to be highly effective.

Right, so his investigation of you took place N1. Assuming that the delayed cult recruitment didn't take effect until N1 (and what else could delayed mean, unless we don't have a cult at all), you wouldn't have been cult until then, after you already claimed miller.

As for what CKD said (stop posting while I write, dammit), it could have been a brilliant gambit, but its been executed anything but brilliantly, and I'd think anyone smart enough to think of such a thing would be smart enough to execute it better, no?

[curiouskarmadog]

ha!

but you can see what I am saying though, yes?

[curiouskarmadog]

xpost

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Yes. My conclusions are just the opposite of yours, though:

If RC is town, BM is almost definitely town.

If RC is scum, BM is still potentially scum (though no more likely than he was before this whole claim business), and in spite of thinking he's wrong on this one, I don't think he's scum.

[Battle Mage]

You want me to not get lippy with you. Really.

I'm sorry, you're going to have to tell me where my reasonings gone wrong. All I see your argument shaking down to is that he lied before. How about he was lying in that game and was inspired by the role he received in this one?

we did discuss this earlier, and its a pretty reasonable thing. In fact its the only thing giving the doubts about what seems like an open-shut case.
Sadly you havent mentioned this till now, which suggests that your original defence was based on emptyness.

Is it the fact that it was a cult cop, which is an unusual role, I'll admit, but not at all inconceivable in a game where there's a cult. If I had fakeclaimed cop in the past, would you say the next time I claimed cop that I must be lying?

No. I'd say that you have a tendency of fakeclaiming cop as scum, and it isnt atall unheard of that you could be doing it again. Thats also the worst analogy ever to prove your point. rofl

I'm sure asking rc why he claimed cult cop as scum is going to be highly effective.

hell, its worth a shot.

Right, so his investigation of you took place N1. Assuming that the delayed cult recruitment didn't take effect until N1 (and what else could delayed mean, unless we don't have a cult at all), you wouldn't have been cult until then, after you already claimed miller.

Ok, i admit you've lost me. Cult can claim miller ya know!

BM

[Toaster Strudel]

TS, it seems to me you think I am scum no matter Rosso's alignment, so, then please explain why your vote isnt on me but on the biggest BW?

This. Granted, i agree totally with what TS is saying. I'd just like to see her put her money where her mouth is.

I totally would, except that Rosso's claim is totally preposterous, his night choices are a joke, and now to boot I really like that point that he might be the delayed cult recruit. Claiming cult cop, BS night choices, it makes sense.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

OK. We have a delayed cult recruiter.

That could mean one of two things: Either they didn't get to recruit N0, in which case we don't have a cult (yay!), or that the recruitment is delayed until N1.

So N0 the cultist (too lazy to go to page 1) recruits you. You wouldn't know about it yet. But you claim miller day 1, prior to you knowing you were recruited if you were recruited.

And if you were scum, it wouldn't have gone through anyway.

Conclusion: If you are now cult, you must be both cult and miller.

And the odds of you being rosso's investigation and happening to be the delayed recruit are pretty damn tiny.

[Toaster Strudel]

Yes. My conclusions are just the opposite of yours, though:

If RC is town, BM is almost definitely town.

If RC is scum, BM is still potentially scum (though no more likely than he was before this whole claim business), and in spite of thinking he's wrong on this one, I don't think he's scum.

Let me add this twist:

If RC is town, BM is almost definitely town, and CKD is most definitely scum.

If RC is scum, BM is still potentially scum, and CKD is still potentially scum.

[Toaster Strudel]

And the odds of you being rosso's investigation and happening to be the delayed recruit are pretty damn tiny.

Is that yet another reason why Rosso's claim is rubbish?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Or that he honestly thought miller would be guilty as cult. Which is what he said. Or if he was actually paying attention, he would realize that his claim almost definitely confirms BM as town. But again, I ask you: if he's scum, why claim that? BM's response is a "shrug, who cares," who can do better?

I'm leaning more toward a "CKD might be scum independent of BM/RC being scum."

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

OK, I have school and stuff to do now. I'm done, and I pity everyone who wasn't around who now has to read all the back-and-forth.

[Battle Mage]

OK. We have a delayed cult recruiter.

That could mean one of two things: Either they didn't get to recruit N0, in which case we don't have a cult (yay!), or that the recruitment is delayed until N1.

So N0 the cultist (too lazy to go to page 1) recruits you. You wouldn't know about it yet. But you claim miller day 1, prior to you knowing you were recruited if you were recruited.

And if you were scum, it wouldn't have gone through anyway.

Conclusion: If you are now cult, you must be both cult and miller.

And the odds of you being rosso's investigation and happening to be the delayed recruit are pretty damn tiny.

ah now i get you.

BM

[Toaster Strudel]

I'm leaning more toward a "CKD might be scum independent of BM/RC being scum."

That's my point.

[Matt_S]

I really, really don't get how "Rosso has done the exact same thing in the past" isn't convincing. Same goes for claiming to have investigated in alphabetical order, yet investigating armlx first. And the whole BM is a claimed miller, so he should show up guilty to investigations. It's not that I don't have doubts about Rosso being scum. It's that lynching Rosso scum helps us more than letting Rosso town live. Of course, if you find any obvscum, I may switch my vote.

[Battle Mage]

Or that he honestly thought miller would be guilty as cult. Which is what he said. Or if he was actually paying attention, he would realize that his claim almost definitely confirms BM as town. But again, I ask you: if he's scum, why claim that? BM's response is a "shrug, who cares," who can do better?

I was satisfied with you. Until i read this BS.
Ive clearly outlined why he would claim a guilty on me as scum. If you want to know more, get it from the horses mouth. That is unless you are scared to get to the truth.

I'm leaning more toward a "CKD might be scum independent of BM/RC being scum."

Right, what makes you think CKD is scum?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I really, really don't get how "Rosso has done the exact same thing in the past" isn't convincing. Same goes for claiming to have investigated in alphabetical order, yet investigating armlx first. And the whole BM is a claimed miller, so he should show up guilty to investigations. It's not that I don't have doubts about Rosso being scum. It's that lynching Rosso

scum

town helps us more than letting Rosso town live. Of course, if you find any obvscum, I may switch my vote.

Fixed for you.

BM

[animorpherv1]

Vote: Rosso Carne

[curiouskarmadog]

this is your second post..your first being

vote: RossoCarne (If it's still morning)

Votes must be bolded for them to count

care to add more to this BW you are jumping on?