i semi-agreeQuagmire wrote:I'm thinking elvis knits myself
Dynamite Stick Mafia! GAME OVER
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pickemgenius Jack the Tripper
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ShowRumpelstiltskin Grinder
(1:55:11 AM) ahallucinogenic: it's ok drench
(1:55:21 AM) ahallucinogenic: it's perfectly normal for young children to walk in on their parents making love
(1:55:31 AM) Drench394: i can't wait
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Surye Mafia Scum
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CES scares me mostly because I see him as the next irrational player that will blow up someone at the drop of a hat, but I'm not convinced he's scum at this point. Scum has no incentive to blow them selves up, and CES seems pretty convincing he'd take someone out when he feels justified (even if town doesn't..).
I'm pretty confused by the night kill choice myself, I have a suspicion that all the calling out of him as likely scum, and then him dieing, may be a tactic to distance scum from the kill, but I am not sure of this, what is everyone else's take on this choice?-
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Sarcastro Sarcastric
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Sarcastro Sarcastric
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NabakovNabakov LalitaLalita
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My take is that analyzing it is WIFOM, especially given the amount Skruff's was the target of distrust. This eliminates any concrete motivations (killing astute or trusted players) and leaves only flip-flopping association and dissociation.Surye wrote: I'm pretty confused by the night kill choice myself, I have a suspicion that all the calling out of him as likely scum, and then him dieing, may be a tactic to distance scum from the kill, but I am not sure of this, what is everyone else's take on this choice?
Also note that (aside from his "I will dynamite the next person who votes me" which he has already claimed was a joke), this is the first time CES has included himself as a participant in a dynamiting, in other cases he was just directing traffic.Show"Shut up!" one woman shouted at another.
"You shut up!" the second woman shouted back.
"I agree with NN"
-Yosarian2-
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Elmo Mafia Scum
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Mmph. Yos, you mixing me up with skitzer or someone? I can't remember saying that about you going after lurkers.
Marmalade: Mmm. Honestly, I remembered I had a vaguely decent reason for the vote, but really couldn't remember what it was then and had to leave at that point - it was a ten second post, like. I should also say that I don't 'expect' reasoning from anyone, necessarily, just that I was curious. The reason that post was somewhat wishywashy was simply as I said: not a lot has happened, despite us being on day 3, due to people ending the day far too prematurely. I didn't/don't have any solid suspicions, so I wanted to wait until we had something to actually look at, rather than push a case/wagon that was probably incorrect. In 'normal' mafia terms, I'd say we're probably not halfway through day 1 in terms of analysable content, despite the amount of words in this thread.
My voting for you was based around 76.. the first part is that you push Surye's wagon (who I think was a popular wagon, and I doubt is scum), based on him being conformist. Now, scum obviously like to blend in, but people will fairly frequently adopt a kind of herd mentality regardless of alignment; a bunch of people have probably done the same thing as him, but he's being singled out for it here for no ostensible reason. If I hadn't thought it through, I do think I would have been tempted to go along with it for the simple reason that the majority of people were doing it, andnotdoing it seems intuitively anti-town - I consider going along with that plan (as such) a towntell, because it makes the individual odds of survival lower, which scum want to avoid, albeit also leads to rapidly self-destructing towns, which is worse. So in my opinion this is at worst a null tell. I don't agree with your interpretation of the second quote there - it reads naturally to me, I guess there's really not a lot of room for debate on that, heh. I think (from memory) only PEG and someone else were suspicious of you when I voted? I don't think that's particularly un-townlike. Having said all the above, the last time someone acted towards me the way you are now, they were town, so I feel better about you, to the extent I'd say you're probably town. Nice and contradictory, I imagine.
CES.. something about the apparently joking post rubs me the wrong way. Pretty much pure gut, there. It doesn'tseemlike the kinda thing a townie would do, since they have no motive for discouraging people to vote for them; it's apparently not serious, but I still get a bad vibe from it, because it doesn't seem like the kinda random thing that would be rattling around in a townie's head.
I didn't like the way Adel made post 98 with respect to LML bluffing. I thought he might be just pressuring ooba, but didn't say anything because that would just defeat the point. I can't actually think of a pro-town reason to say that, at that point; but it does work well as scum trying to goad Lee into making the kill (I think Yos said this, as well as LML pointing this out in his last words). The problem with that is simply that Adel is not always easy to follow, and it turns out she was town and obviously had some reason for saying what she did that I didn't understand, which is what I was concerned about.
Yos' slip - I wouldn't expect there to be three scum in a game this size, so it's very probably nothing. The only case in which it means something is if we can be reasonably sure there actually are only three scum; in that case, the fact he talked about three scum when one would intuitively expect more makes it more probable that he has inside knowledge, but it seems very unlikely we will ever actually be in this situation. So I don't think it's really worth pursuing, right now.
</verbose>Succinctness is pro-town.
Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available. ~ Gregory Benford-
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NabakovNabakov LalitaLalita
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Note, every person mentioned in this paragraph, besides Yos, is dead.Elmo wrote: I didn't like the way Adel made post 98 with respect to LML bluffing. I thought he might be just pressuring ooba, but didn't say anything because that would just defeat the point. I can't actually think of a pro-town reason to say that, at that point; but it does work well as scum trying to goad Lee into making the kill (I think Yos said this, as well as LML pointing this out in his last words). The problem with that is simply that Adel is not always easy to follow, and it turns out she was town and obviously had some reason for saying what she did that I didn't understand, which is what I was concerned about.
Regarding Yos' slip: I would actually call it a scumtell. When you don't think about it, you would expect there to be more than three scum in this game, but when youdothink about it, three actually makes sense considering that there will beat leasttwo townie deaths per-cycle. So, when not thinking about it, Yos gives the right/non-intuitive answer, and while I wouldn't go so far as to call bullshit on the "mini mindset" out it's in no way a solid alibi.Show"Shut up!" one woman shouted at another.
"You shut up!" the second woman shouted back.
"I agree with NN"
-Yosarian2-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yeah, you're right Elmo, I was getting you and Skitzer confused there, my bad.
Sarc: No, not especally, I was just trying to pick a fight, although I got the people confused. It was actually Skitzer who said that, who claimed that I was "going after lurkers on day 1", and I rememberd thinking that was a really scummy thing for him to say, since not only was he completly wrong, it made me notice that he himself had only posted 3 times all game, that he hadn't really said anything all game, and that it seemed like he was attacking me because he was a lurker who didn't like the idea of the town going after lurkers. It seemed like a paranoid over-reaction, and I've seen lurker scum react like that before.
So, yeah.vote:Skitzeruntil we hear more from him. And sorry Elmo.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Sarcastro Sarcastric
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Surye Mafia Scum
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pickemgenius Jack the Tripper
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vote: surye
def scum.
reading his most two recent posts have convinced me.ShowRumpelstiltskin Grinder
(1:55:11 AM) ahallucinogenic: it's ok drench
(1:55:21 AM) ahallucinogenic: it's perfectly normal for young children to walk in on their parents making love
(1:55:31 AM) Drench394: i can't wait
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Claus Mafia Scum
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Because on day 2 (where you attacked lurkers on your post no 1). We can't really know who are the lurkers.Yosarian2 wrote:Claus: Exactally why is a "heavy attack on lurkers" a scumtell?
In less than 11 pages we had 9 players dead and 3 days past us by. Townies are blowing up before we wait for everyone to speak. It is ingenuous of you to accuse anyone of not speaking, when the town is not waiting for them to speak in the first place. It is a cheap shot.
If these were normal length days, with normal majority bandwagons, that can be seen a long time going, I would agree with you. A player that sees a bandwagon form and discussions happen without saying anything - possibly lurker scum.
But in this game. No. Are there some scum lurking? Probably. But there are also townies that haven't had the chance to speak yet, because of the short days.
(Now to hunt any more questions directed at me during D3)-
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Mr Stoofer Less than scum
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Which is why I didn't attack any specific lurkers yet. At that point, all I made were general statements that scum might lurk and we should look out for that. Which is both true, good stratagy advice in this kind of game, and was hopefully going to be a deterent that might hopefully get people to lurk less if they knew we were going to be going after lurkers.Claus wrote: Because on day 2 (where you attacked lurkers on your post no 1). We can't really know who are the lurkers.
I didn't attack any SPECIFIC lurkers until day 3, after the game had been going for a full week. If a full week goes by and someone hasn't said anything meaningful yet, then yeah, they're a luker, especally in a game that moves this fast.
The very fact you point out is why it's so easy for scum to get away with lurking in this kind of game, if the town's willing to let them do it; scum don't even have to bandwagon really, they just have to sit back and wait for townies to blow each other up and stay out of the way; if we don't want that to be a winning scum stratagy, we have to take steps to prevent it.In less than 11 pages we had 9 players dead and 3 days past us by. Townies are blowing up before we wait for everyone to speak. It is ingenuous of you to accuse anyone of not speaking, when the town is not waiting for them to speak in the first place. It is a cheap shot.
And, "cheap shot"? Really? Sorry, am I not being fair to your lurking scumbuddies?
I never said all the lurkers are scum; there are too many lurkers for that to really be likely. But we need to make them all talk, we need to pressure them to do so, because if we just ignore the lurkers and let them lurk like you seem to want to do, it pretty much guarentees that a lurker scum will in the game.If these were normal length days, with normal majority bandwagons, that can be seen a long time going, I would agree with you. A player that sees a bandwagon form and discussions happen without saying anything - possibly lurker scum.
But in this game. No. Are there some scum lurking? Probably. But there are also townies that haven't had the chance to speak yet, because of the short days.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Marmalade Goon
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unvote, I'm more convinced by Elmo's recent post.
Can someone who finds Yos scummy actually give a proper case? I'm finding the Yos hate pretty boring, to be honest.
I agree with pickem that Surye's recent posts are suspect, but I'm not entirely sure as of yet whether or not his skitzler vote is opportunistic. Not voting for now.Sign up for [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8094]Unanimous[/url] today!-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I've been voting you since D1. It's just never gone anywhere since people keep blowing themselves up without looking at the votes.Cogito Ergo Scum wrote:
Just yesterday, I think.elvis_knits wrote: Been trying to get rid of this guy for how many days now?
I'd rather see Elmo or Yos blown up, but I will do so myself if y'all really think I must.-
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Surye Mafia Scum
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Both of them? I can see how the most resent can be seen as somewhat scummy, though after re-reading, that is exactly what I found, I'd like to see where I am wrong.pickemgenius wrote:vote: surye
def scum.
reading his most two recent posts have convinced me.
And what is wrong with my second to last post? I'm not sure what you don't like about it.-
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NabakovNabakov LalitaLalita
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Well, that post basically parroted ideas about CES in a more alarmist tone and then WIFOMed a nightchoice.Surye wrote:
Both of them? I can see how the most resent can be seen as somewhat scummy, though after re-reading, that is exactly what I found, I'd like to see where I am wrong.pickemgenius wrote:vote: surye
def scum.
reading his most two recent posts have convinced me.
And what is wrong with my second to last post? I'm not sure what you don't like about it.
But since you have it all figured out, I'd like it if you handled the second post.Show"Shut up!" one woman shouted at another.
"You shut up!" the second woman shouted back.
"I agree with NN"
-Yosarian2-
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skitzer Mafia Scum
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I'm kind of sad that I'm being called out as a lurker, I mean to post, but because the nights last longer than the days it's kind of hard to find a interval in which I can post. Some people don't watch the site 24/7.
I would like to note this point from Surye.
this is how I interpreted it.Surye wrote:CES scares me mostly because I see him as the next irrational player that will blow up someone at the drop of a hat, but I'm not convinced he's scum at this point. Scum has no incentive to blow them selves up, and CES seems pretty convincing he'd take someone out when he feels justified (even if town doesn't..).
"CES scares me because he could blow me up, which would be bad for me because I'm scum, but I know he's not scum. Scum have no incentive to blow themselves up, and CES seems like a townie who could take me, scum, out when he feels justified (and even if town doesn't see this)[multitude of periods]
Maybe if you read through it again, you'll see what I'm getting at.
Vote: Surye-
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Flameaxe Comma Police
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Surye Mafia Scum
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So you're saying it's not bad for town to take things into their own hands and blow someone up? Have you been watching this game? I think CES is town, but I don't think he should take things into his own hands. Your interpretation makes no sense.skitzer wrote:I'm kind of sad that I'm being called out as a lurker, I mean to post, but because the nights last longer than the days it's kind of hard to find a interval in which I can post. Some people don't watch the site 24/7.
I would like to note this point from Surye.
this is how I interpreted it.Surye wrote:CES scares me mostly because I see him as the next irrational player that will blow up someone at the drop of a hat, but I'm not convinced he's scum at this point. Scum has no incentive to blow them selves up, and CES seems pretty convincing he'd take someone out when he feels justified (even if town doesn't..).
"CES scares me because he could blow me up, which would be bad for me because I'm scum, but I know he's not scum. Scum have no incentive to blow themselves up, and CES seems like a townie who could take me, scum, out when he feels justified (and even if town doesn't see this)[multitude of periods]
Maybe if you read through it again, you'll see what I'm getting at.
Vote: Surye-
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skitzer Mafia Scum
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