Newbie 595 - Game Over!

[q21]

@Litral - you were quoting Yosarian2 to show how Muerrto was being unhelpful. Close enough I think.

Also, the 2nd last paragraph of my last post was @Muerrto...

Official Vote Count

Muerrto - 2 (Litral, Muerrto)

Not Voting - 5 (q21, massive, snafoo, starkmoon, Super Archivist)

4 to Lynch

[Muerrto]

Shrug your choice. I wanted you to kill me to prove I was town then lynch Litral.

If he won't let you do the opposite(lynch him then lynch me) then he's scum, period.

Sounded like a good method to me. Would like to hear Massive's take on this.

[q21]

I agree that you idea is essentially sound. BUT I don't want to go into day 3 with some people having hardly checked in, let alone contributed. If massive also agrees I would probably go through with it.

If starkmoon could arrive and tell us what she thinks that would be great.

[Muerrto]

Agreed. It takes 2 more votes anyway. I meant I wasn't doing it like he said 'go ahead lynch me I give up' I was doing it as a valid strategy. He is annoying but I'm not gonna throw the game because of it.

[Super Archivist]

Good lord, I come home today and find this WALL OF TEXT.

I don't think he's mafia (since he wants us to kill him so bad to prove he's not), but Muerrto isn't helping at all. It would be a waste of time to lynch him just for that, though. Muerrto, if you're going to sign on for a game, don't abandon it like that!

Anyway, snafoo and massive are automatically suspicious for not voting Mike (and starkmoon, but she has an excuse...), so FOS them, I guess.

And... what about Walnut? Why did they choose to kill him? I think we should go back and look at Walnut's posts to see if there's anything helpful.

[Muerrto]

Abandon? Um...I've been posting near non-stop all of day 1 and so far day 2...

I don't think calling my participation into question is something that you personally want to be doing...

As for analysing the night kill, always pointless. The scum have their own agenda, we don't know what it is or why and it's WIFOM to assume anything.

I want you to kill me to HELP the town so yes it does help.

My point is Litral is not okay with it being the other way around. He's sure I'm scum, I know he is. So he should be okay with dying first, yes? He's not. I am.

Hopefully you guys will lynch one of us and then, if need be, lynch the other. But if he dies first the town wins, so he doesn't like that idea. Says mislynches are bad for the town. But if I'm lynched second then the town wins anyway, right? So why are you not willing to die?

[Litral]

That is not logical. Of course I am not fine with dying first. What will happen if I get lynched first? Nothing good. I, and I believe many other players, wouldn't automatically lynch you just because you advocated my lynching. Therefore my mislynch serves no purpose.

You should realize that this isn't a "either Muerrto is Litral is definitescum now since they voted for each other" situation. Also, I have not ever said that I'm sure you're scum. I said that you are suspicious, although your entire "OMGUS!! OH, NO, wait, VOTE MYSELF!" reaction doesn't help at all.

You are indeed abandoning the game if you can offer no constructive argument except that lynching you will magically find scum for us.

I do not even wish we should lynch you immediately. My vote is made to express my view that you are scummy, and I want you to explain. Your explanation is - OMGUS.

I am perfectly fine with you dying, and you're going along with that. That makes me happy.

If you're so willing to die, just die. I am not because I believe mislynches make no sense. I have no idea why not wanting to be lynched = scum.

The problem with the entirety of your argument is that you are 100% sure I am scum and that you, as a villager, dying would reveal me as scum. That is your super strategy. Guess what? That is not true in a variety of ways and you have not offered any argument for that. The only thing I have done is to vote you, and you have decided to place myself in such a way that the town can only choose 2 options. Why don't you even think anyone else can be scum? I do think so. But I think you're more likely to be scum, and that's why my vote is there.

The best you have going against me is that I wanted to replace Mike and didn't want to hammer him. There are really only two possibilities for this.

1) I am scum. I am quite blatant and very open about defending someone who was about to die anyway. I essentially hammer him, although in an indirect way anyway. I also come out the second day immediately with a post against someone who has fervently advocated his hammering, like Mike was my brother and I had to avenge him.

2) I am townie. I want a better game without mislynching due to absence and people not posting.

If this implies that I am obvscum to you, have it your way.

@SA: Nah, Walnut was being both a good player and very analytical. Dangerous to the scum. I immediately regretted quoting that paragraph from another of q21's games because q21 is also a good player, and I thought it'd give the scum ideas, for which I would be very apologetic.

[Muerrto]

If you think my vote is OMGUS I'm sorry. There's not much more I can say to you. But as I already stated, other people had problems with your actions at the end of day 1 as well. That's why I'm voting you. You jumping right out of the gate and voting me isn't what I expected but I did expect you to try and get me lynched.

[Litral]

@Muerrto: so, to summarize, your "valid strategy" is:

1. Point at someone who pointed at you.
2. Kill self.

This implies that whomever you pointed at must be scum? How?

The tunnel vision doesn't help the town at all. If you're townie, simply bring out an argument against me instead of saying killing yourself will necessarily imply I'm scum. It is not true in any way whatsoever, the only confirmed townie is Walnut.

That said, I find q21's last comments extremely dangerous.

unvote

.

@q21: I have offered my argument against simply voting off one of us as a valid town strategy in the last post and this one. Please respond ASAP with your thoughts on whether or not this is a good strategy.

[Muerrto]

Your subsequent over-reaction only confirms my suspiscion. Scum backed into a corner foams at the mouth and becomes rabid.

[Litral]

Ooh, so that's why people should never put forth arguments. Thanks Mr. Muerrto. You've been a great help to the town in this game.

Talk about over-reacting when you actually voted for yourself...

[Muerrto]

Dude, stop w/the immaturity (Mr. Muerrto, you've been a help etc.). Act whatever age you are or if you're still a kid try and act older. I'm not replying to you any more. If you turn up scum I'll be disgusted with your play. If you're town, learn to not take things personally.

I voted myself as a valid strategy, if you don't buy that or understand it then so be it, that's why you're in this game.

Unvote

I'll post again when you start acting like you're not in grade school.

[Litral]

Ever heard of sarcasm? Is it not permitted in these forums? Is it necessary for you to continue with the ad hominem attacks? I would argue that you are childish for being so impatient and willing to rely on the "I have more experience" mentality. But let's leave that until later.

Again, q21, please explain why you think this is a good strategy.

[snafoo]

@starkmoon, snafoo and massive: Post please, kthxbai.

@snafoo: Note that your "pairing argument" no longer works in incriminating massive. I'd love to see another post carefully analyzing everyone's posts.

I surely will, need some time to read through the recent arguments first though.

[Litral]

Hmm. Actually, Muerrto, you are right. If I am convinced that you are scum, another way to get you lynched is to get myself lynched. That way, everyone will see that you were pushing my lynch too hard, and that you must be scum.

vote: Litral

Everyone else should comment on Muerrto's strategy, which sadly shall lead to his own demise. If you believe it makes sense, vote for me. Especially q21.

I ask our kind mod for a

prod

on starkmoon who has not posted ever since she came back from her holiday.

[Litral]

I'm wondering if there's someone called "myself". That way, anyone who votes for him must type out vote: myself.

[q21]

Ever heard of sarcasm? Is it not permitted in these forums? Is it necessary for you to continue with the ad hominem attacks? I would argue that you are childish for being so impatient and willing to rely on the "I have more experience" mentality. But let's leave that until later.

Again, q21, please explain why you think this is a good strategy.

Okay Litral, I think you look most guilty as things stand at the moment. In essence I agree with Muerrto that should he die and come up innocent it would big finger pointing your way. I did not agree that his plan should be carried out straight away, though, and did not vote for him, neither will I vote for you yet.

As I have said before, I want to see posting from the other four players. While I do suspect you I know that there is a possibility that I'm wrong, but it is hard to tell if others don't post. Our scum may actually be lurking - waiting for you and Muerrto to blow each other up. For this reason I am opposed to lynching

anyone

before we have decent day 2 contribution from everyone.

MOD

I have to second the motion that you prod starkmoon.

[Super Archivist]

So now Litral wants us to kill him too!? What's up with you people...?

Assuming you're both townies, if we lynch both of you, we'll still have 4 pro-town players, and if either of you is mafia, we win. Might as well give it a try, I guess. =/

Vote: Litral

But with you guys dead, the game will kinda die too, since you two post the most...

[q21]

SA, don't complain that the game will die if they aren't around to post. Post yourself to help keep the game alive.

[Muerrto]

Slight correction.

If me and Litral are both town you'll lose me/him today, someone tonight, the other tomorrow and someone the next night.

You'll be at 3 people w/1 scum. So yes. You won't lose if we're both town so it's definitely in the town's interest.

Although discussion in between is of course also good for the town.

But there's no disputing the idea works to weed out the scum nicely, and also gives a good chance of catching them before the last day if it's one of us, which we both seem to think it is.

[Muerrto]

Litral, right now we should both be assuming we're both town so that IF we both die and we're both town we can contribute NOW as to who could be scum out of the other 5 so they'll know that's legit when they're in LYLO. If one of is scum it doesn't matter if it's legit because we'll be dead and the town will win anyway.

I was just re-reading and thought I'd mention that if you're not already doing it.

[Muerrto]

Reading back, I'm actually floored Walnut's town. It was more his argument that we should vote IC's although Snafoo started it(he says as a joke).

It was also weird that Snafoo quoted the prod on Mike, then said lets wake up people and voted Demon, not Mike.

Snafoo was also pushing the Massive/Muerrto thing hard so now that Mike's dead, where does that leave his supiscions? It'll be interesting to see when Litral reads back assuming I'm town, how he takes the 'IC' argument differently. It definitely reflects poorer on Snafoo once you 'confirm' me town.

Now we reach the Mike vote. Me, Q21, SA, Walnut, and Litral. Stark, Massive, and Snafoo didn't vote him. Since I didn't see bussing occuring or any other stronger ties to Mike and since I'm assuming Litral is town, my suspiscion still lies solely with Snafoo.

He stayed well clear of the vote and has barely chimed in day 2.

Walnut didn't really throw out any suspiscions day 1 too much until he voted Mike which we all know was pro-town.

Not much of a re-read since day 1 was for the majority me and Litral and I'm assuming you're town atm

Maybe he'll get more I missed.

[Litral]

Good.

unvote

SA, unvote. I think that's all I need to see now. T'was a gambit and I think it failed, because I don't want to leave for 10 hours only to find myself lynched.

Let me explain myself. Voting oneself is in most cases not a good strategy. The only possible good that will come of it is time saved because you don't have to give any arguments, but then the town loses 2 people (most likely).

Let's see what one of us getting himself lynched will do: the other will be lynched. However, this is only good because if one of us believes the other to be so guilty that no other person is anywhere close. The only logical step is to give arguments, then; getting lynched only proves that one of us is a townie, it doesn't prove that one of us is right, or that the other must be scum.

Being lynched as a town doesn't prove you right in any way whatsoever, because townies don't have more information.

However. This situation is perfect for scum. The situation was that both of us will be lynched in Day 2 and Day 3 - a free ticket to the endgame for the scum if it's not either of us. This is very likely - I wouldn't put Muerrto's possibility of being scum above 25% (still high, but much lower than everyone else's combined). This situation is perfect for scum to take advantage of.

Thus, whomever went with this strategy would've been put under extreme suspicion. I tried to restart the strategy just to get the scum to go along with it. No one actually did. But for the first one:

I agree that you idea is essentially sound. BUT I don't want to go into day 3 with some people having hardly checked in, let alone contributed. If massive also agrees I would probably go through with it.

FoS: q21

for now.

q21, I hope to see an argument why the strategy is good. You have said that:

In essence I agree with Muerrto that should he die and come up innocent it would big finger pointing your (Litral's) way.

This is true, very true. This, however, is not "good for the town", because if you think I'm scum, you should actually lynch me today.

I have given my read in that very long post at the beginning of the day. There is nothing to add except suspicion for q21. However, I suspect this is a perfect case of "town tearing itself up by posting". I will not be voting until everyone posts.

I'm actually also surprised Walnut's town... okay, it's not good to guess what the scum thinking, but since this is a newbie game lemee share my thoughts: I think the scum got cop reads out of his play; also, no doc would try to save him because he was slightly suspicious.

I guess I'm happy that Muerrto thinks I'm only playing poorly if I'm scum. That is true. If I were scum clinging on would be bad play. I would've disappeared altogether.

[Muerrto]

Shrug you do seem a bit more competent than to do what you did yesterday to save Mike. If you legitimately didn't want to lynch an empty seat just remember how it reflected on you in the future. If he's picked up his prod and not posted(btw check by poster, Mike NEVER posted in the thread once, EVER, I've never seen that) then he's scum, period. If he's simply not posting and not picking up his prod then he's not playing.

Huge difference.

I'm not sure about Q21 thing, he definitely seemed reluctant to go with it.

SA on the other hand was more than happy jumping on it immediately, that was a bit surprising.

[Super Archivist]

Wait, so we're not doing the "lynch Litral and Muerrto" thing anymore? Whatever....

Unvote