Dichotomafia- Games Over

[Wacky]

Well, I just discovered this thread, because I was waiting for the role pm, and not checking theme park, and maybe some other people are in the same situation. Will there be two threads, or will it all be in here?

[Wacky]

<- Indifferent

[Wacky]

/confirm,

random vote Werebear

, cos he's not in the game. (And just for the hell of it)

[Wacky]

I think I'll be taking a wait and see approach.

[Wacky]

And Wacky is the last to check in--

-Uraj45, Willow, ralpmerr...., fishbulb, are the true lurkers[...]

Ahaha. While I'm waiting, I'll

Vote: PeaceBringer

. You're trying too hard. Far too hard. In any case I don't tend to lurk as scum.

[Wacky]

That should be "tend not to". How many games has mmcl been in?

[Wacky]

Not only that, but I will Fos: Lulu & Wacky as they both want to seem to take the laid back approach, and sorry, but you need to get off your bums and play.

My approach is... laid back? I guess... Though I always hate day 1, and this is day 1.

FOS: Nanook

anyway.

It doesn't look like we'll be getting anything out of MMCL, and he's implying he has info. I guess the only thing we can do is to bandwagon Tally, get a claim and itemised account of target(s), and then get MMCL to make a comment. This could be bad for the town, but the die has already been cast with MMCL's possible-cop-claim (which I think was a bad play, but it's done already), so

Unvote PeaceBringer, Vote: Talitha

[Wacky]

I might not be able to count very well, but this is around lynch minus 2 or 3 or so, so be careful about your votes.

And I see nothing wrong with metagaming. Waiting for sufficient bandwagoning (inevitable, but reading the reasons will be interesting), and then a claim. (Preferably in that order)

[Wacky]

I'm not the scum. And coincidentally, I think one or more of lulu, nanook is scum

Well, the reason(s) I'm voting for you is

1. Shameless bandwagoning
2. Behaviour that might be out of character (Haven't been in a game with you lately, so that's not a major reason)
3. MMCL gave some vague, weird excuse, which, as you say, would be pretty bad play unless there really is reason to suspect you.

[Wacky]

2. Behaviour out of character?? I have probably been scum just as much as I've been town on this site. And so far, people haven't really been able to tell the difference between my behaviour as scum and my behaviour as town. You

know

this very well because you've mentioned it to me yourself!! If there's a difference in my behaviour in this game it's because I've been accused and called a scum right from the word go.

That's partially true. I have mentioned that it's hard to tell if you're scum or not. That doesn't mean I can't try, and that doesn't mean you aren't acting out of character right now.

3. MMCL being vague and weird. Bah, even IF he's a cop and he got a guilty on me, he still would have no information about his sanity. And IF he was a sane cop (which he isn't - but I guess he can't know that) it would STILL be bad play, because he'd be killed tonight. The mafia always have more information than the town and being vague like this just hurts the town.

If you're a conscientious townie you should make him speak before carrying this bandwagon on me any further.

What if you are scum?

He could be a cop, paranoid, or random - no action necessary
He could be a sane cop, in which case claim miller
He could be a reporter, in which case you would have to claim a role that visited the dead guy
He could be a gunsmith, in which case you would have to claim vigilante

I think you're trapped. You certainly act like a deer in headlights. And you want MMCL to claim first so you can make up an appropriate counterclaim.

So, no, you claim first, then we get MMCL to explain his weird actions.

[Wacky]

I forgot caterer. Not sure what mafia would have to claim then.

And it doesn't have to be a full claim, you just need to claim all the possibly incriminating roles you don't have.

[Wacky]

This is getting irritating. Maybe they're all scum. Tally does seem like she's digging for info, MMCL does look increasingly like he's pulling a Lepton, Nanook is just plain scummy the way he encourages people, PeaceBringer's doublepaste looks weird, and I better not die tonight or I will be very annoyed at MMCL. The doc should make up his own mind.

Now that I got those incomprehensible statements out of the way, I think I'll ask for a

Vote Count (please)

and wait for this to sort itself out.

[Wacky]

I'm not sure - MMCL seems sure about his result, but this is Day 1 in a big game. Any cop's sanity is likely to be questionable. But he's an experienced (enough) player, and he seems sure, for reasons unknown. He could be pulling a Lepton, but nobody seems to have done that in a long while - Mafia tends to use that idea when they get pointed at day 1 more than most. But then that's all the more reason to use it. But Talitha said earlier she believed he was innocent but mistaken (She appears to have changed her mind now)

-OTOH Talitha isn't all that helpful, but she does have a possibly valid point about lulu.

So I'm not sure, and since Talitha is a better player as scum than as town, I'm inclined to lynch. She can still help us when it's night in this game, can't she?

[Wacky]

For me Wackys stuff just looks odd and hyper or something.

Hyper? How/Why?

Unvote: Talitha

. Not like anyone is voting for her anymores it seems.

Vote: MMCL

. I don't know when he unvoted Tally, but this is freaking weird. Explain this odd behaviour.

P.S. Those who are dead in the other game can actually be silenced by mafia kill. So they are also more likely to be targets.

I think we should discuss the mechanics of this game some more and come up with various modifications to strategies of regular roles etc. This would increase town chances.

[Wacky]

Oh yay, another IS!

Do we always lynch IS on day 1? I'd prefer we did, but that wouldn't be a good play.
So,

Unvote: MMCL

,

Vote: NanooktheWolf

.

Though come to think of it, those who just agreed with him seem more suspicious.

[Wacky]

I'm not convinced Talitha is scum, because this is day 1, and sanities are unknown. If the votes were based on Talitha being suspicious, I would accept, but
that some people are using MMCL's result as the sole reason I find suspicious.

Thus I shall

Unvote

(Actually, I don't think I'm voting for anyone thatI remember) and

Vote: mgm

[Wacky]

I should also add that I don't think the wolf wagon is enough to go on at the moment. For good or for ill, at least he put new ideas forward and committed to it. Even if he turns out to be mafia later on, that provides information we can use.

[Wacky]

I'm not sure if bandwagoning anyone is going to get much more information.

As for what Talitha said, it's difficult to tell whether its scum-siding or town-I-believe-you. Personally I do both (though more of the first one than the second one).

I really have no idea who to go after because at this point I probably should be seeking the lynch of them.

So,

unvote: mgm

,

Tentative Revote: Tally

. It really bugs me that she seems to have a very good idea about what she's doing. I hope I know what I'm doing, but I don't think I do. Make up your own minds.

[Wacky]

Actually, I'm voting for Talitha because Silgado106 FOSed you.

On further reflection, that doesn't make much sense, but I've done the same sort of thing in the past, so....

But they didn't work out well, did they?...

I think I'll

unvote: Talitha, Vote: silgado

And fos: STD, MGM, Talitha - (there was some strange voting and unvoting around you) just because.

[Wacky]

Between Talitha and Nanook I choose Talitha. FOS: All you lurkers! You should be posting! Most of the mafia should be amongst you!

Unvote: Silgado, vote: Tallyscum.

That's 4.

[Wacky]

I agree with the lynching her rather than let the deadline do it.

If you had a really useful role, and it's hopeless, you would have claimed already.

In any case, if you are town, you can attack me on the other side.

Everyone else, please commit to an opinion, or something..

[Wacky]

I would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge my aliveness and FOS: MGM a few more times, if Tally turns out to be scum.

[Wacky]

Damn. Sorry Talitha

We could always vote for the suspicious people in the other game in case they're actually evil here....

Vote: MMCL

.

[Wacky]

I'm not sure if discussing werewolf roles will get us anywhere either, for all kinds of reasons.

You mean IIRC doesn't mean "In IRC chat rooms"?

Oh well. Can we bandwagon someone for some crap reason now? It is day 1 you know.

[Wacky]

Actually, I was hoping for a

Vote Count

so I could see who already has a vote.

Who else is voting for me?

[Wacky]

I think I will

uneven

things up.

Unvote: mmcl, Vote: PeaceBringer

[Wacky]

I ain't getting any vibes at all. It's frustrating.

[Wacky]

Who said I was upset? I'm just frustrated about not seeing any clues on who the mafia might be. And while a bandwagon is good, being bandwagoned is always bad, so I wouldn't like it too much either.

Okay, the reason:

1. The rules say that you can just ask norinel for the equivalent role. So discussing what the equivalent roles could be isn't very useful to the town.

2. On the other hand, a lot of you seem to not know that. Some of those people who don't know that might be mafia. If they were mafia and made up a claim, and then (or beforehand) I asked norinel and got a different role name, we just trapped a mafia.

3. Also - discussion of roles often results in people dropping tells about their roles, mostly the pro-town people (since mafia -> werewolves. Not that much to say).

4. In summary, discussion of possible roles does detriment to the town, and helps the mafia.

Finally - I rarely know what I want to say or really want to say.

[Wacky]

Side note: Could you tell me for future reference what my style of play is?

Unfortunately I don't have much to add to this discussion at the moment, except that although I get Fuldu's rationale, he should probably elaborate in his own words for other people.

[Wacky]

I'm beginning to see why people are voting for Fuldu. The "I don't think it's Wacky's style / it could be PB's style" got me on side.

Problem is, he could be mafia or town doing that (biased towards mafia), but because I'm beginning to suspect WW as well, and WW just undermined the wagon,

Unvote: PB, Vote: Fuldu

If WW is right, that's six out of eight.

Side note: I'll be posting a little less for about 3 weeks due to final exams coming up, but I don't think I'll need replacing.

[Wacky]

Do you think Fuldu would really be so unworried about his own demise if he were scum? It could all be an act I guess... but quite a gamble...

It isn't exactly original for mafia to do that - they've been unworried about their demise many time before, and will be many times again.

I just think that if he was town, he'd be *more * worried, but then again, I could be wrong.

[Wacky]

I don't know.
Talitha never claimed, and Fuldu isn't going to right?
The similiar stance is what strikes me as odd.
I mean if anyone is the positive rolemodel it's Talitha.
You know to set the point.
But as far as having someone else actually say they are taking the stance to purposely get send the point across....Just slightly bothers me.

Though Fuldus post 500 with an explanation of why a no claim feels different from Talithas. Plus they are two different situations. No one is claiming any type of knowledge.

At this point I sense that if I unvoted, a lot of people would be very annoyed, so I think I'll just have to ask:

Are you trying to claim doc?

Cos if you are, you'd be better off just claiming it, because this bandwagon has too much inertia to go away otherwise.

[Wacky]

What the last two said.

[Wacky]

On one hand, we have Nanook's being blocked and no kill, and on the other hand, we have MMCL's NOT being blocked and no investigation.

I think I'll go with

Vote: MMCL

.

[Wacky]

If lulu's previous count is right, that's very close to a lynch.

[Wacky]

I agree with ralphmerridew. Correspondingly, I'd like to ask mmcl to reveal his results now, if that's a good idea.

[Wacky]

I think we might also have to take a close look at PeaceBringer in the other thread as well. MMCL was blocked, and Nanook was blocked. That makes two (that is, unless PB is lying), and probably a mafia blocker in there regardless of whether PB is telling the truth.

But I don't know, he didn't seem very suspicious in the other game.

Reading back I don't feel he's all that suspicious in this game either. But that could change.

Right now, I like the wolfy wagon this game better, I think.

Vote: Nanook

.

[Wacky]

As Ralphmerridew said, you're voting for the people who were suspicious in the town. That seems like as good a reason as any.

[Wacky]

Fishbulb: I totally don't get what you are asking.

[Wacky]

Well, I'm not sure what to say in this situation. I can't really get why I'm being accused of laziness, because my holidays just started. I.e. I should be the opposite of laziness. I suppose this could be attributed to my more frequent posts which have correspondingly less content.

Does it really make sense that as mgm says bandwagoning when I'm the first to vote is suspicious? I tend to associate that with sheer incompetence more than anything else.

Anyway, the key to lynching scum in the right game is to make sure you lynch them in the right game. Reactions are good, and reactions are always good. Even when I don't know what I'm doing I get reactions, and that is good for the town.

[Wacky]

What?

[Wacky]

Okay, I'm a bit confused, but... I suspect Nanook might be scum in the other game, but I also suspect nanook might be scum in this game, because it is sometimes hard to tell which, plus I thought there was already a bandwagon on nanook, so I voted for him.


I guess the whole premise was wrong, so

Unvote

.

[Wacky]

Which questions would that be?

Are you addressing me or FD?

Mod: could you possibly provide links to starts and ends of days? It would help figurig out which game is which when rereading.

And what is the werewolf equivalent of "Flying Pumpkin that shoots Lazers out of its Ass"?

[Wacky]

Hey. I figured I'd do a little (but only a little) rereading, instead of just being useless as I have been for the past few game days.

I've been thinking about:

1. The night kills:

KingEnigma - just replaced. I'm not sure when people got the idea that replacements might get a better idea of who's scum, but (perhaps this is wrong), it's always struck me as a more recent idea.

Willows_weep - Why would anyone want to kill willows_weep? She's so... random. As far as I can tell, mafia kill people because that person suspected a mafia. And Willows_weep voted for PeaceBringer.

Just now, I remember that I said that it might be prudent to wait, but he might be our best bet...?

The problem is of course, that WW might not be sane (There's probably a dualism between the games.) And for that, we need to ask WW to reveal the results (though not necessarily the people she targeted, just the results), e.g. of the investigation she made just before she got mauled.

2. The lynches. I'm not good with those, and this was the end of day vote count:

Fuldu- 8 (lulu muumuu, the silent speaker, Wacky, Flying Dutchman, NanookTheWolf, Mgm, Save The Dragons, Fishbulb)
PeaceBringer- 2 (willows_weep, Fuldu)
Flying Dutchman- 1 (Talitha)

Not voting (4)- ralphmerridew, MMCL, PeaceBringer, Silgado106

I'm guessing arbitrarily that some of the mafia will be on that wagon for possibly dubious reasons, and some will be off, for dubious reasons. That doesn't really help, because there wasn't a good reason in the first place.

So, in conclusion, I have no conclusion - this post is mainly for future reference.

[Wacky]

How... interesting.

Oh, and I'd like to hear from lulumuumuu more.

[Wacky]

MMCL was blocked and PB said he blocked NanookTheWolf. That's two blocks in one day.

Why isn't anyone puzzled by that?

Why isn't anyone thinking about the possibility of a mafia blocker?

[Wacky]

OMG. Did I confuse two games or something?

Yes, I think I did. PB didn't say he blocked nanook the wolf in this game, did he? *bangs head against the wall*

[Wacky]

Well, it looks like I didn't confuse this game and some other non-dichtomafia game afterall until that last post where I thought I did. Similar player lists + similar events + tabbed browsing = very easy to confuse things.

But STD: Care to explain that vote?

[Wacky]

Seeing how the game is stagnating a little (a lot). I think we should talk about this game much more now.

I'll partially claim for now: I have an investigation role in one of the games (possibly this one) and a backup role in the other.

(The strategy behind claiming like this is that:

1. I'm useless at the moment, so mafia: killing me if I didn't have an investigative role is a bad idea.
2. On the other hand, most of the mafia in one game will be town in the other (I'm guessing that for the mod to be evil, there's going to be 1... or 2 who are evil in both games), so
mafia: killing me if I had the backup role in your game would hurt your chances in the other game - if I die in the other game, I can't reveal my results in your game.

[Wacky]

Kill me in both games? You have to admit that I haven't been useful to the town at all - even as I vote I know I'm wrong. Also, I tend to just take a single post and find something suspicious about it, then try to start of bandwagon (or join a nonexistant one)

May I propose a suitable candidate for bandwagoning? How often have to seen mafia "vote: bandwagon target one, FOS: bandwagon target two"?

Vote: Lulumuumuu

.

Oh, and in case I die in both games - I'm told masons exist. Not very surprising in a large game, I know but that makes things interesting. Well, not really - mafia are also able to have limited full communication when it's night in the other game.

[Wacky]

I'm here. I've been waiting for Lulumuumuu to respond. Why is it that games almost always come to a standstill whenever I post something of interest?

[Wacky]

It's a new year, so I'm back. Trying to take a break from mafia so I can get things done was a complete and utter failure.

Voting for coron is because I have nothing better to do. I think voting for coron is the best thing I can do right now. Nothing new that I can see to be incriminating has shown up. I don't think Coron would say anything particularly stupid that would make me sure of my vote, but I don't think he's going to say anything innocent-sounding that would make me unvote.

So, by the power of inertia, vote stands. I guess the reasons I outlined are the exact same reasons people are voting for coron. It sucks, but... well, it sucks.

That is all, have a happy new year, and I hope coron is scum.

[Wacky]

It's a new year, so I'm back. Trying to take a break from mafia so I can get things done was a complete and utter failure.

Voting for coron is because I have nothing better to do. I think voting for coron is the best thing I can do right now. Nothing new that I can see to be incriminating has shown up. I don't think Coron would say anything particularly stupid that would make me sure of my vote, but I don't think he's going to say anything innocent-sounding that would make me unvote.

So, by the power of inertia, vote stands. I guess the reasons I outlined are the exact same reasons people are voting for coron. It sucks, but... well, it sucks.

That is all, have a happy new year, and I hope coron is scum.

[Wacky]

Okay, I'm totally back from everything (break, flu, HD failure) now.

Lulumuumuu seemed suspicious, but coron hasn't. I'm inclined to unvote him and see who else we can go after, but that wouldn't be helpful if nobody was here. So.. quick roll call, come and post!

[Wacky]

well, I guess that didn't help much. Well, as soon as people who aren't here are replaced I'd like to see a deadline or something to end the damn day.

[Wacky]

I think FD might be completely absent (i.e. not lurking. Maybe he got hit by a bus?)

i.e. replace the guy.

Maybe I'll reread the thread when I'm completely bored and want to read about 300 contentless posts, but I think that day 1 mania has to end sometime.

[Wacky]

Let me put some subjects into play so the subject can be changed:

Who to suspect and why:

Lulumuumuu (coron): For: On fuldu wagon, that quote, voting for a non-here person.
Against:

those wacky quotes are almost a week apart! i think that's more than enough time to rationally change one's mind (been there). i think you're grasping at straws. vote stands

Sounds like it had thought put into it. So if I assume lulumuumuu is not that bright [big assumption], she doesn't sound scummy.

Peacebringer: For: Willowsweep, fuldu wagon, all kinds of crap.
Against: I have no idea, but I probably gave reasons earlier and they were probably good. Maybe.

FD: For: not here.
Against: not here.

Other under the radar people: just about everyone else (bah).
Note to self: Lurky-Tally is scummy-Tally. But that was what I said in the other thread, and it didn't work too well there.

Other points of discussion: I agree with Fishbulb's point about scum, which is why I think we should lynch someone active, and I want to switch votes. Unless coron is scum, which he might be.

So my thoughts (which are jumbled) are:

1. maybe lynch coron, and if he is town, go after active people who were on this wagon, and if he is scum, go after FD wagon people.

2. Maybe lynch PB, because it is strange how this got totally dropped.

3. Maybe lynch Tally, for no apparent reason, but there's probably an unapparent reason.

4. I don't get FD/FD wagon, and probably never will. So I'll leave this option open.

[Wacky]

Reasons to vote FD extended: Voted lulu after she was replaced. My scumdar said to when I read over the thread.(before he was lurky)

Cancel my second thoughts about voting for coron. I wouldn't vote for someone until they were replaced.

[Wacky]

yay for lynching Coron. It also gives us a lot of fodder for discussion when we wake up from this dream (or is it go to sleep?_)

I would like to repeat the request that Nanook claim and Willows reveal her (or his, I don't really know) respective night actions.

Since it's late, I'll leave it at that and start thinking again tomorrow.

[Wacky]

Having thought about things, I have come to the conclusion that we should wait for nanook to claim and stuff and willows to reveal and stuff.

What, were you waiting for something?

[Wacky]

And now, to wait for WW.

... it looks like I misunderstood fuldu, but I'd still like to press for a claim at some point.

[Wacky]

meme? Cool beans? only one investigation? (okay, maybe not a good idea to reveal the other right now, but just so you know, there SHOULD be another investigation there)

??wha???

[Wacky]

...what a horrible post to start on a new page.

anyway, I'm bored, so

Vote: Nanook

.

[Wacky]

So WW - no result on night 2? (You don't have to reveal the result already, just answer yes or no)

[Wacky]

A player's night action succeeds on the night he/she dies unless there is some other reason for the action to fail; notably, an information role performing an investigation will receive a result.

What I find surprising is that willows investigated PB the night she got killed.

The reason I think revealing your investigations might be a bad idea is that the mafia in the other game probably can't kill you in this one, so you can risk leaving it to later BUT if you do reveal, that person has a very good chance of dying.

But you're right. because while I was typing this I realised that you already revealed one person, and your other investigation might get lynched. heh.



But the reason why I'm voting for nanook is simple - PB has said he got blocked the night there was no kill, and atm, there's no reason to doubt PB, and by a process of elimination, the only std. role that fits is mafia.

[Wacky]

1. You have 1 vote. From me, actually, and not because I investigated you or anything.

2. Two roleblockers does seem strange. Especially if one has a "twist".

3.

Honestly I couldn't tell you whether or not my action worked ... I assume it did because I didn't get a message from the mod or anything saying otherwise.

Yes, I do have a blockable action which is why I find that it didn't work last night. I don't however have a killing action.

Back to my original thoughts, Vote: MMCL

meh. Can we lynch him already?

[Wacky]

Yeah, I was blocked, it didn't work, lets lynch MMCL (WIFOM)(Town Day 2)
Honestly, I don't know if it worked! (Town Day 3)

I think you're mistaken.

Notice how it's also quiet - deadly quiet, people. Mafia are all waiting for something better to come up, (or trying to figure out whether to kill me or not, because it might or might not ruin their chances in the other game [remember that?])

[Wacky]

Mafia <in this game> are all waiting for something better to come up, (or trying to figure out whether to kill me or not <the mafia in the other game>, because it might or might not ruin their chances in the other game [remember that?])

[Wacky]

Role call time?

[Wacky]

Nanook: If you are anything but mafia, you should at least give a full list of people targeted, and explanation as to why you contradicted yourself, what kind of twist you suspect it might be. This lack of effort is just disappointing.

<fuldu's confused gibberish goes here>

A clarification:

I can't remember who nanook claimed to have blocked n1 or n2. I'm not sure if he did, so if you find out, please tell.

Night 1: I don't remember who PB said he blocked, but MMCL investigates Tally, gets guilty result.

Night 2: Peacebringer claims he blocked nanook, who says his night action (blocking), didn't work. So that's the actions of two claimed blockers accounted for. BUT MMCL says he's blocked, or at least that his investigation didn't work [when we get back to the village, we better ask him who it is, because it might just be a godfather effect.... but then again, MMCL was paranoid/insane/random/other sanity]

This is the weird part, because that is a lot of blockers, and blocking a claimed cop that is in doubt seems like a weird thing for a pro-town role to do.


-----


w_w - It's surprising because the village almost got led into lynching the guy you investigated because they thought you had already investigated the guy N1 and got a guilty result, when in fact you investigated the night N2 and got an innocent result.

[Wacky]

Well, I suck.

Why oh why didn't the doc protect me anyway? MMCL: (no choice) and general inactivity kinda screwed my Master Plan up.

[Activity - > doc will make choices -> mafia less likely to kill me in village -> me looking more likely to be cop in the village and not the town when in fact cop in town -> continuing to lynch scum in the town until someone noticed]

Mafia (ralphmerridew, willows_weep, Save The Dragons): Send ralphmerridew to kill Wacky
Outsider (Wacky): Outvestigate Save The Dragons (Changed from ralphmerridew)

I was sooo close to getting the mafia (well, STD got lynched anyway, but still).

Well, I wish me better play next time. Good day.