Large Normal 216 - Endgame

[profii]

AP


Were you waiting for something to happen between responding to the motion detection outage and specifically saying you were disloyal rb

I mean it’s obvious that you knew what you were going to claim in the first post, but there was like a 9 hour gap before you totally cleared things up - were you waiting for someone (Maxous?) to say something to verify something?

[Nosferatu]

You have ct as scum AND in not sorted
you have AP as tr AND you voted him
Then you return to coasting

ap wants to die
im not gonna deny him

and we've both talked about ct... i thought u understood his place in the readlist.
i cant read him lol.

[AP]

I kinda was hoping he'd slip, yes. In fact, I wanted to keep it hidden for a bit longer if I didn't see people voting me casually.

To be precise, I made my 1st comment when I saw both CT & Garmr voting me, but then I left. I came back to be stunned by Nos having joined my wagon, and I felt if I stayed quiet any longer that you might too, and then it wouldn't have taken much for the wagon to reach it's climax. I either had to speak up or keep quiet, because if I even tried to just ignore the wagon and carry on with the plan that would have still been seen as suspicious, and you and I both know people (Maxous) would have said I was taking my time to think of a good claim. *Sigh*

Actually, I will admit myself this is not out of my scum range either, to be completely honest. What

is

though is that hidden crumb of my target from D1 when I was talking to FL. That is totally out of my scum range, because I couldn't have possibly anticipated I would be precisely "motion detected", and that Maxous would also be specifically "tracked". I mean, even assuming Flubber somehow did convey his "information", what exactly do you 9or anyone else) think he would have been informed of? Would he be told of the existence of a multitasking JOAT??? Would he also be told who that was??? Let's be crazy and say that he knew both these things.. would he be told whom Performer will target and with which ability???? If not, then why the hell did I tell FL I needed more than just his opinion regarding Maxous?

[AP]

@Nos: What's with the sudden flip on me? For real? Why did you take my sarcastic comment literally? I was saying I'm not enjoying my role, and I was frustrated my wagon was growing before I even got what I wanted from Maxous. But then Performer claimed and Maxous would not have said anything, because it was outed he didn't go anywhere anyway, so I also claimed.

[Nosferatu]

@Nos: What's with the sudden flip on me? For real? Why did you take my sarcastic comment literally? I was saying I'm not enjoying my role, and I was frustrated my wagon was growing before I even got what I wanted from Maxous. But then Performer claimed and Maxous would not have said anything, because it was outed he didn't go anywhere anyway, so I also claimed.

i didnt really flip on anything

the gods demand a sacrifice and you were willing even if only in jest

[Nosferatu]

also are we voting max now?

VOTE: max

im voting max now. we need counterwagons for scum to expose themselves.

[profii]

If Maxous was scum I take it the rb would obviously be successful and that would make performers result too

Not saying it’s probable at this point, justits possible and fits

[xx2008]

I love it when people go "If there was motion on/from that slot they must be scum"! Motion Detector cannot even tell if I performed an action or one was performed on me (or both).

But sure, lynch me. The game is not fun and my role isn't fun either. I don't even know why it exists in the first place.

I mean, I do see the functionality from a mechanical PoV, but it tells

me

nothing, so I'm probably shooting blanks in all directions.

Are you loyal vig? I love that as a role.

If I was I would have never acted.
I'm DISloyal RB. This means I don't even know if my action succeeded or not. I targeted Maxous. It was between him and Shattiel for me.

I think these two posts go hand-in-hand with one another. The disloyal Roleblocker doesn't seem to be that helpful of a role. The fact that the first post was made before the second also makes it seem more real.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Nos
I don’t like how he’s voting rn

[xx2008]

The Role Itself

Disloyal is a role modifier conceived as a complement to the earlier Loyal modifier. If a player is Disloyal, then any attempts by that player to use a night action on a player with the same alignment will fail (as though they had been roleblocked). As such, a disloyal player can only succeed with actions when targeting a player of a different alignment.

-Considering rule 15 of how there could multiple folks with same abilities, the rb portion of his claim doesn't sound outlandish...dva also had a similar ability
-I need to re ISO ap to see if his post about max & shat, even make sense
-If he's disloyal rb tpr & targeted someone, they must target a player opposite their alignment to have their action go through.
If he's scum disloyal rb & targeted someone, same as above so his role is risky either way...as a negative utility role.

Setup Speculations

1. mafia: disloyal rb, informed goon, 1-2 more scum
town: n2+n3 stopper, multi joat, IC, maybe 1-3 more tprs based on NRG balancing

2. mafia: informed goon, 2-3 more scum
town: n2+n3 stopper, mult joat, IC, disloyal rb, 1-2 more tprs based on NRG balancing

I see either case is possible .

More Thoughts About Disloyal Rb Claim from AP

See, this is why I wanted to wait for my targets to say something to my actions on the, BEFORE I outed my results. But now, who knows if AP is fabricating this as a scum story because he just so conveniently targeted maxous also.
Has anyone EVER seen a disloyal tpr? This is the first I've even heard of it.

AP remind us - why did you target max??

Consider this: if town ap thought max was scum, then his disloyal role means max HAS to hit someone of OPPOSITE alignment in order for his role to work. If max was indeed scum, then max OBVIOUSLY would target OPPOSITE ALIGNMENT aka anyone other than his team. Now, if max turned out to be a tpr too, then town ap shouldn't even risk it because what if tpr max had a protect or some other good ability to help town - then ap would've neutralized max's role. So ideally ap needs to have waited until another night to use his ability, because on n1 he could've neutralized tpr.
Am I understanding this correctly?

Now that I've seen this, I have a much better idea of what a disloyal rb does. I like the reasoning in this post, especially those involving alignments. I also like the reasoning behind the setup speculations.

[xx2008]

Generally speaking I use implicit WIFOM for my targeted actions. For example, if I was a Doctor I would have more likely protected Profii. Why Profii? Bc I hard TR him. Why not FL? Because Scum will assume he will be protected anyway. What if Scum have a strongman shot? Then my protection on FL would have been useless anyway.

If I was an explicit investigative (say a Cop) I would have checked in Maxous Shattiel, and not in people already in my lynch pool. I'd worry more about the scum I might not want to lynch (i.e. not including in my lynchpool) than the one(s) I already have in my lynchpool.

Got it?

This I agree with, and has been a strategy I used sometimes in irl mafia. But, supposing one were scum, one might think town pr's would think this way, and actually target fl instead of another target. It's hard to predict what the scumteam would do as town and what tpr's would do as scum, which makes the game very complex.

[xx2008]

I'm very busy right now, so I will finish reading later.

[Nosferatu]

VOTE: Nos
I don’t like how he’s voting rn

where do u think i should be voting gamma

[Garmr]

UNVOTE: AP
hmm I need to think about this.

[profii]

VOTE: Maxous


Feels right

You're worrying me slightly but I see where you're coming from.

AP makes me more paranoid, he seems like a much better player than what you can see for now.

Can you explain why you find Maxous case more compelling than my point about Maxous doing exactly what he accused AP of

FTR I’m now leaning town on AP and Maxous

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Nos
I don’t like how he’s voting rn

where do u think i should be voting gamma

I said how not where
You lack conviction and just seem to be taking easy wagons

[Nosferatu]

if im taking ez wagons that seems like a where more than how issue

if i drop a case on max is it no longer an ez wagon?

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ll say no, as you’re actually showing effort

[Nosferatu]

i dont think that makes sense

then im just really putting effort into an ez mislynch

[Gamma Emerald]

I think you’re doing easy wagons because you don’t really need to provide reasons
Providing reasons debunks my thought process

[xx2008]

Generally speaking I use implicit WIFOM for my targeted actions. For example, if I was a Doctor I would have more likely protected Profii. Why Profii? Bc I hard TR him. Why not FL? Because Scum will assume he will be protected anyway. What if Scum have a strongman shot? Then my protection on FL would have been useless anyway.

If I was an explicit investigative (say a Cop) I would have checked in Maxous Shattiel, and not in people already in my lynch pool. I'd worry more about the scum I might not want to lynch (i.e. not including in my lynchpool) than the one(s) I already have in my lynchpool.

Got it?

AP I don't get how you progressed from max not being in your lynchpool & being town, to rbing him on n1, to saying his case on you is scummy.

PLEASE.. when I link a game I do mean for people to at least go check it.

When I intent to block X I do NOT explicitly put them in my SRs. When I want to investigate X I do NOR put them in my SRs either.

When I want to

protect

someone it would most probably be someone I expect scum would kill that night and not necessarily my top TR.

If I wanted to VIG someone it will be from the "turbulent middle area" on my read list, not the ones at the bottom.

When I removed Shattiel from my lynchpool that was my intended RB target. Then I decided Maxous was more worthy of my "love touch" to I switched them. I didn't have a strong TR on him.

@FL: I get that. I got it the first time too. Problem is [redacted][redacted][reacted] so I hope you'll excuse me if I don't fully trust your read. Not that I have a "strong" read on Maxous anyway, but he's not in my lynch pool for D1, so it would take me more than just your word of honour to sheep you there.

^^ See? I wasn't sure (and I was also teasing FL about his shitty play in another game that has now ended). THIS is the point where I decided I'd go for Max rather than Shattiel.

I think these two posts seem to contradict one another. reading one posts and then the other , it's pretty clear they don't exactly express the same thoughts.

[Nosferatu]

i think thats faulty thought process

as scum rn it makes more sense to just give bs reasons for people who think like that

[Nosferatu]

I think these two posts seem to contradict one another. reading one posts and then the other , it's pretty clear they don't exactly express the same thoughts.

could you bold like one sentence from each that contradict one another

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
Kinda doubt you’d act like this as scum tbh

[xx2008]

Generally speaking I use implicit WIFOM for my targeted actions.

For example, if I was a Doctor I would have more likely protected Profii. Why Profii? Bc I hard TR him.

Why not FL? Because Scum will assume he will be protected anyway. What if Scum have a strongman shot? Then my protection on FL would have been useless anyway.

If I was an explicit investigative (say a Cop) I would have checked in Maxous Shattiel, and not in people already in my lynch pool. I'd worry more about the scum I might not want to lynch (i.e. not including in my lynchpool) than the one(s) I already have in my lynchpool.

Got it?

AP I don't get how you progressed from max not being in your lynchpool & being town, to rbing him on n1, to saying his case on you is scummy.

PLEASE.. when I link a game I do mean for people to at least go check it.

When I intent to block X I do NOT explicitly put them in my SRs. When I want to investigate X I do NOR put them in my SRs either.

When I want to

protect

someone it would most probably be someone I expect scum would kill that night and not necessarily my top TR.

If I wanted to VIG someone it will be from the "turbulent middle area" on my read list, not the ones at the bottom.

When I removed Shattiel from my lynchpool that was my intended RB target. Then I decided Maxous was more worthy of my "love touch" to I switched them. I didn't have a strong TR on him.

@FL: I get that. I got it the first time too. Problem is [redacted][redacted][reacted] so I hope you'll excuse me if I don't fully trust your read. Not that I have a "strong" read on Maxous anyway, but he's not in my lynch pool for D1, so it would take me more than just your word of honour to sheep you there.

^^ See? I wasn't sure (and I was also teasing FL about his shitty play in another game that has now ended). THIS is the point where I decided I'd go for Max rather than Shattiel.

These were the parts that were contradicting each other.
I know this might be a wild and wrong guess, but does anyone think ap is fake-claiming?