Mini 2065 - Access Point [Endgame]

[RCEnigma]

1 player has to be chosen each day we can't essentially NL. So I agree vigs should out. RC is right about shot directing since distancing/bussing don't really have a place in this setup, 2 scum are always tied.

I have different ideas on how the vig should shoot but I'd rather discuss it later

[RCEnigma]

Not necessarily TGP, scum only need 1 on the mission to make it 3p lylo. Getting a 2 man win is icing on the cake. RC is definitely a player where I can see the scumteam putting the game in his hands and letting him face off in lylo.

Slight town for RC regardless.

This isn't a paranoia post it's an acknowledgement post.

[RCEnigma]

why wouldn't the vigs want to out themselves, be confirmed town, and have a much larger share of influence into who goes to access point and by the same token reduce the amount of influence scum have over who goes to access point?

there's no discussion when it's basically gamethrowing for scum to shoot the conftown there's no benefit for the conftown not to out.

RC - what's to stop scum from killing the people we choose to be in access point if we decide d1?

They are removed from the game I think?

[RCEnigma]

She was but you would just be a nightkill as town. B for effort though.

[RCEnigma]

Fwiw I think you would realize the target on your back so I think the push to be sent early is warranted.

[RCEnigma]

Wow, RC and DDL are def leading in terms of posts this game. Feel like their disagreement is TvT, though leaning towards RC's approach currently

1 player has to be chosen each day we can't essentially NL. So I agree vigs should out. RC is right about shot directing since distancing/bussing don't really have a place in this setup, 2 scum are always tied.

I have different ideas on how the vig should shoot but I'd rather discuss it later

Now that both vigs have outed, curious to hear what your ideas are

That's gonna be a no from me dog. When the time comes.

[RCEnigma]

Actually don't think I'll be mentioning it at all. Once I mention it then it is invalidated as a strategy. It's kind of on the vig's to make that judgement call. I will say RC's approach to vig kills is the town only perspective without considering the wincon scum are playing to, and I'll leave it at that.

[RCEnigma]

(if it's not already clear I'm townreading your opener)

i certainly have no desire to play against you as scum, but i haven't really read much of this game beyond the intro posts about the vig claims and such

I'm not. I also believe that it's correct to send you to access point over me given that if scum enters I'm more likely to get mislynched than you are.

If this continues you know it probably means neither of you are sent to the mission today.

[RCEnigma]

If this continues you know it probably means neither of you are sent to the mission today.

if what continues?

The two of you townreading each other. I'm aware it's only been expressed one way but still.

[RCEnigma]

It gives scum an ultimatum. It's essentially leashing scum and a nk on one confirms the other. Your townread is fine but for the rest of the town it's a confirm.

[RCEnigma]

That's why I said it was one way at this point.

[RCEnigma]

Not sure I trust nsg's read on you as much as I trust your read on nsg but forcing scum to flip one of you removes the doubt there.

[RCEnigma]

hypothetically if neither of us died N1, what would you do on D2?

Man up and read you I guess.

[RCEnigma]

Not sure I trust nsg's read on you as much as I trust your read on nsg but forcing scum to flip one of you removes the doubt there.

so you're concerned that we're both scum? why are we more likely to be both scum than any other arbitrary pairing of 2 people in the playerlist

I wasn't pairing you as scum.

[RCEnigma]

Guys I have a god NSG read rate and I am 100% sure she is scum

LYNCH HER WITH FIRE

VOTE: northsidegal

I'm happy with this

You guys realize votes are to access point, not lynch?
RC are you joking or are you sure she's scum?

Are you honestly thinking this is serious coming from the man who gave a full strategy as soon as the game started?

I think it's serious. It'll change though, he hasn't called everyone else scum yet, just give it time.

[RCEnigma]

Votes are to send X slot on the mission correct? Not for scumreads so. That's a thing.

[RCEnigma]

Yes no I got that when he voted her. I still think his read will change. RC will nail his read down near EoD.

[RCEnigma]

Errr as a rule of thumb I assume all of RC'S pushes and to some extent his reads come with a caveat. Or an agenda, nai agenda I'll clarify. It's just his approach.

[RCEnigma]

you think that his read on me will change? does that mean... that you're scumreading me?

like, i can understand if you've noticed a tendency for RC to switch his reads around, but i'm wondering about why specifically you think he'll start scumreading me. seems fairly

Do I scumread you? No. Do I think RC will question his read in the future? Certainly. He needs to be sure right? Unless he has an Eli read and it's a very specific tell he has on you.

[RCEnigma]

To add onto that, RC hasn't tested the waters with any pushes yet and I feel he hones his reads that way. With that in mind he's only focused on setup spec at the moment which tells me his reads aren't solid yet. I don't feel his read on you is exempt from that

[RCEnigma]

Yours or insomnia's?

[RCEnigma]

I think you are the only townread RC and I share so I don't get the following RC thing. I don't have any experience with you or your meta and have only skimmed like 1 game you were in. Which is why I would probably trust his read on you more than mine. I don't really have a read on RC's meta either aside from general observations that may or may not be entirely accurate.

There's a portion that I can't really talk about yet and probably won't be able to this game however someone made a read on DDL that I think applies more to you than it does to him in regards of game solving. There isn't a specific post but I think your challenging posture comes from town. That and the skepticism to some of my statements seem genuine.

I acknowledge that it could be because Im trying to direct scum towards making a choice between you and RC but still.

[RCEnigma]

I'll have reads I don't really expand on until questioned. I think that's just a playstyle thing.

[RCEnigma]

I only really vaguely read nsg. I don't think I read DDL well and the setup spec is NAI for me. Locke had a semi scummy post so I guess I like roster pinging him out. Besides that no one is really involved in the game like you and nsg are.

Not in a meaningful way anyways.

[RCEnigma]

I don't think Rui is particularly townie can you expand on that read RC?

[RCEnigma]

Don't nominate outside of ddl nsg insomnia

How confident are you in this pool? I'd be willing to put nsg in today. If scum doesn't nk you I'd probably put you through tomorrow. If we holster the vig shots today I'd offer 2-3 nominees tomorrow as a 3rd and take a vig shot to flip me. I feel pretty good about you being able to sort between nsg and a 3rd proposed slot.

[RCEnigma]

Ideally the AP of NSG, Vedith, ddl would have worked out in towns favor. I think an AP of RC, nsg, DT would be decent. Doesn't work if RC is paranoid of nsg or vice versa however.

[RCEnigma]

Oh hmm, I hadn't thought of that.

[RCEnigma]

I think DT is an easier read as either alignment than DDL is.

[RCEnigma]

So in an AP that is RC + NSG I think the better 3rd is a slot that is easily readable and one that doesn't disrupt the focus of RC/nsg reading each other. I guess the third is interchangeable but a mutual townread makes things messier between RC/nsg.

[RCEnigma]

My idea isn't make sure that all 3 in the AP are town. It's to ensure that we make it to lylo and hope all 3 are town. I'm kind of banking on you and nsg both being town there but I don't think it's a stretch.

[RCEnigma]

RcE why haven't you put yourself forward for AP

I don't want to be in the AP. I want to give my reads, eat a vig shot, and live happily ever after.

[RCEnigma]

I retract my scumlean on rui btw.

[RCEnigma]

RcE why haven't you put yourself forward for AP

I don't want to be in the AP. I want to give my reads, eat a vig shot, and live happily ever after.

please AP this

Don't you do this to me...

[RCEnigma]

Also, don't think you are a bad player DT. Sorry if it came off that way. I just think parsing your agenda is less wifom than say RC, who seems like someone that will mindfuck slots as either alignment.

[RCEnigma]

The reason you are townreading me is why I'm townreading rui. Rui said it first.

[RCEnigma]

Still good for the access point.

[RCEnigma]

Do you like me? Or do you... like like me? uwu

[RCEnigma]

Get back to work.

[RCEnigma]

I hereby dub RC as the Goblin King.

[RCEnigma]

The thoughts I had on how vigs should be shooting are kind of null now knowing that all slots flip before a lylo AP.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: drdo
You know what I want lion to check in.
Before that i'm still the best person to send to AP.

Is this just a fmpov statement or is there a reason we should consider you the best day 1 option?

[RCEnigma]

We've already agreed that you townreading nsg with a town flip on you conftowns nsg.

[RCEnigma]

Ddl if you had to choose one person as a rep, and this rep is the person that got to choose who they wanted to be in the AP. Who would you choose?

[RCEnigma]

I'd extend that question to insomnia as well.

[RCEnigma]

It wasn't a riddle.

[RCEnigma]

Actually good point. Why aren't we letting the vigs choose 3 slots and 1 vig target. If all 3 are alive eod3 we nominate those three.

At minimum we have 2 vig selected nominees. The vig target chooses the last nominee eod3.

[RCEnigma]

If town is talking about vigging RC then scum don't have to nk him. Town is gonna don't for them.

[RCEnigma]

Meh, not interested in getting involved with RC's head to heads. Doesn't change my read either way. And OGI stuff but that's neither here nor there.

For RC specifically I think scum is less likely to spew you in the first 20 pages and then turn around and bump heads with you just because. Unless the team is like DDL+insomnia and they are splitting town reads. I don't believe this to be true and don't think you do either.

The logic that if you and NSG are both town Scum has to discredit your read on her to maneuver isn't realistic to me. Imo scum needs you alive to cast any doubt on nsg being town and insomnia wanting you flipped to prove nsg doesn't fit.

[RCEnigma]

I feel stronger about insomnia being town than DDL honestly.

[RCEnigma]

it's hard to explain, idk.

I've been told I have a scummy aura, no hard feelings.

[RCEnigma]

Also considering replacing out as I'm not sure how I'm feeling about this game, feel less motivated when we're just following a plan that was outlined page 1, not knocking the plan though it is solid. Might get over now I have more time free so well think on it. In case I do, to speed up the process, here my thoughts on who to AP as of rn:
D1-D2 {RC, NSG, RCE}
D3 {DT, Roster, DDL} This one is in order of preference

Obviously if we're trying to reach a consensus I don't mind someone from second pool being swapped with the one from 1st pool

Found this pretty genuine, what do you think of Locke? Not as a candidate just in general.

[RCEnigma]

I'd like to hear *anything* from tgp or guilty before that.

[RCEnigma]

Pretend we're in extended night.

[RCEnigma]

You're being melodramatic.

[RCEnigma]

Then you're intentionally misconstruing the events of the day, but we can talk about it tomorrow.

[RCEnigma]

Tomorrow.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah no sorry.

[RCEnigma]

I'm disappointed none of these emojis have the ability to hug.

[RCEnigma]

I don't scumread either of you. But you aren't dying tonight so it shouldn't matter.

[RCEnigma]

But I will be satisfied when we get a slice of discussion that isn't helicopter parented by you and isn't 1v1 based (insomnia/Rui).

[RCEnigma]

I literally said yesterday why scum can't shoot RC.

[RCEnigma]

DDL makes sense for the night kill since shooting RC in the night gets DDL sent to the AP anyways.

NSG is town regardless of RC's alignment so now if we end up in lylo it's just a matter of deciding between 2 slots.

[RCEnigma]

Put that vote back.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Rui

[RCEnigma]

Cool with me taking a vig so you start listening to RC?

[RCEnigma]

Of the alive I townread RC, Rui, insomnia/DT, Locke in that order. If RC doesn't want to be in the AP with nsg send rui, that's fine with me.

[RCEnigma]

Sashay pose sashay.

[RCEnigma]

RCE am I in the wrong here

You aren't wrong but I think the way you interact with players you don't think are on the same level as you is a major flaw in your game. There are players that can work around it maybe through experience and whatnot but this is a social game and being personable is a part of it.

Your conviction and confidence in your reads comes across as brash because it's presented as I'm right and you're wrong. Don't think I'm as good at mafia as you are so this criticism may not be helpful I just think you could handle people better than you do and it might help players accept you leading town as either alignment.

[RCEnigma]

Do you think nsg is town?

[RCEnigma]

We aren't talking about AP'ing Insomnia, he wants to eat a vig shot instead. Insomnia is Roster still your locktown read?

[RCEnigma]

Alisae I think our reads line up too well for you to not have a read on me, I get the live interaction thing. It may be a better way for you to sort. My townread on you only really sticks by proxy of your predecessor though.

I'll explain why I pivoted towards town on my Rui read but the gist is it's largely influenced by RC/nsg agreeing on her.

[RCEnigma]

I’ve mentioned that anything <#500 is for fun

So no, hell no, don’t put roster in AP.

Aren’t all of his posts like “Insomnia is conftown” or some shit

So why are we shooting you?

[RCEnigma]

Ah gotcha.

[RCEnigma]

Few things to consider:
Based on RC's trajectory Scum!RC would have to be with NSG + Rui or me. I'd be the more likely third as a slot that nsg/RC didn't agree on and RC only came around to me being town today with NSG already AP'd.

Actually with that in mind the alternative could be RC + Me +a third but I'm also advocate rui for AP regardless of her read on me.

Scum!RC would probably Mastermind an AP that he isn't a part of but he doesn't send Town!NSG to the AP in this playerlist specifically. Since RC flipping scum doesn't incriminate her due to the DDL kill.

Slots flip prior to lylo anyways so Scum!RC needs to play to get into the AP by day 3 if he sends a partner day 1 or day 2 if he sets a partner up that day. Of course this is all dependent on if and how he gets AP'd but his chances aren't great if he ends up in a lylo situation with almost any 2 townie in the original playerlist.

And town!RC just needs to stick around long enough to get his reads accepted. I think having him in the game longer is beneficial for town which you aren't seeing.

[RCEnigma]

I agree that brvr is a good shot only in the sense that it's likely scum.

[RCEnigma]

Now that my slot is majority null read I'm fine with again taking a shot to push rui through.

[RCEnigma]

RC is gonna throw a fit post game but no worries we got this.

[RCEnigma]

I didn't get the Rui townreads initially. Personally I think her interactions with GL and TGP came off as town. So the way it went down is that both vigs assumed rui was shading GL's vig claim, I assumed she just wasn't trying to be lolvigged on his entry and initial scumread.

But anyways Rui didn't really correct it. In a setup where the whole point is to be townread over anything else this comes off as pretty damn townie.

Also DDL dying as a mutual townread of RC and NSG looks insanely good for Rui who was the other townread shared by them.

[RCEnigma]

Your reads aren’t. You also share the same role.

Unless you think me/nsg/RC is the team you can just blame the game on us in the event rui is scum and wins a lylo faceoff.

[RCEnigma]

Hey guys
I’m not RC.
I get that RC influences games and makes the game about himself but
Try to remember that I’m not actually RC and our play styles are extremely different.

I get that but there isn't really appoint to start reading your slot from scratch if I'm not seeing anything scummy. I was already townreading the slot even today.

[RCEnigma]

Not really, I have a fairly solid idea of where I want the game to head so it's more important for you to read me than it is for me to read you.

[RCEnigma]

Unless you are down to vig me that is.

[RCEnigma]

Are these reads based on Ankamius or labrats replace out? Is this a meta thing I'm missing out on? I've never played with labrat before.

[RCEnigma]

If he isn't a scumread do you understand why a shot on RC whom is doing the lionshare of town leading isn't the best move for town? Especially after the next universal townread is picked off in the night and he isn't pushing for his own vote to the AP but a shared vote instead. As a day 2 shot I'd argue RC isn't the best if the vigs also agree on the slot being town.

[RCEnigma]

rce
nsg
RC
insomnia

everyone else

DDL
Locke

is where i am at

gonna have to iso others, tbh

What changed your mind?

I like this question. In this scenario, I nullread you, town read RC. Now TGP voted you. I said, I could follow conf town as according to plan. But then I realized conf town doesn't have to be right. In fact I trust in myself (100 percent that I'm town), but the issue is I might not be able to rally enough support to send myself to AP.

However, if GL also thought you were town, that's two conf town voices that I can listen to, and barring some odd co-variation, the likelihood that both of them are wrong is more unlikely, so I'm holding off sending you to AP unless GL also agrees that you are town.

My reads? I have town read on RC and RCE and DT. but none of them enough that I would bet the game on them (i.e. let them dictate 2 AP sends)

Also considering replacing out as I'm not sure how I'm feeling about this game, feel less motivated when we're just following a plan that was outlined page 1, not knocking the plan though it is solid. Might get over now I have more time free so well think on it. In case I do, to speed up the process, here my thoughts on who to AP as of rn:
D1-D2 {RC, NSG, RCE}
D3 {DT, Roster, DDL} This one is in order of preference

Obviously if we're trying to reach a consensus I don't mind someone from second pool being swapped with the one from 1st pool

[RCEnigma]

Other possible information shots. I don't think Locke has much equity to be AP'd but has consesus reads. DT has similar reads if I was considered for AP.

DDL agreed so what on me and DT and I'm willing to take the shot to get town into the AP.

So I guess I'm just saying shooting RC's slot isn't the only option.

[RCEnigma]

I consider insomnia to be town but can't bring myself to justify AP'ing him with everything that surrounds the slot in the event one of the others sent is scum and not insomnia. I honestly think you just get mislynched in lylo.

[RCEnigma]

I'll compromise on Ankamius being sent if and only if RuiRui is locked as the day 3 AP. Or in the event Rui is killed in the night, I'm sent. But only then.

If I'm shot today then you as a group agree to send Rui today.

[RCEnigma]

Nsg should be considered conftown so idk why that would happen.

[RCEnigma]

And if scum is a non lurker?

[RCEnigma]

Rui doesn't seem like scum to me. I wouldn't send them to AP today, but I would send them in the future if we had to.
People who I think we can safely send on AP today or tomorrow:
NSG
RC
RCE
I'm not sure about the entire meta gaming thing that's happening about RC. Wouldn't it be in somebody's best interest to act the same way for each and every game no matter what? It just gives you away in games if you are extremely talkative and helpful as mafia, but only have about one post every few days as town. If you keep acting the same way in each and every game you're in people aren't gonna be able to out you as scum or town day one from how active you are. A problem with acting the same way each game is that some people like Rui or Insomnia (Sorry didn't see which and I don't want to go back to read and see who it was.) will doubt what ever you say and won't trust you no matter what you do. What i'm saying is using RC's previous games as scum or town isn't really that good of a plan. I've never meta gamed or payed any attention to it so I dunno. Maybe Meta gaming is the best strategy you can do in this situation? From my experiences though Meta gaming is frowned upon in many games I've played on the forums and online games which is probably why I have this opinion of it.

Brvr also agrees with RC/RCE/NSG/Rui all town.

[RCEnigma]

DoubtingThomas - RCE
DrDolittle, who was an Agent, was killed on Night 1. - RCE, DT
RuiRui - Anka
northsidegal Vedith has been chosen on Day 1.
Alisae RadiantCowbells - Anka
GuiltyLion
BRVR - RCE/RC/Rui
Locke113 - RC/RCE
insomnia - Anka
rosterfoster -
RCEnigma - Rui
Ankamius LabRat01 -
TheGoldenParadox

[RCEnigma]

Just so I can keep track of who is pushing who through. Feel free to edit with your choices if I'm wrong.

[RCEnigma]

Well, it only takes 3 going against the town majority. I would argue 2 with 1 scum wanting to blend with town. Town is going to wifom itself regardless of what scum does it's just part of the game.

[RCEnigma]

On second thought I feel roster is more likely to flip scum than brvr. However treating Roster as lockscum doesn't change anything when his sole read is insomnia conftown.

[RCEnigma]

So 2v8 with a 3/3 split on who to send. I'm sure a few of those will flip to voting Anka through when they get active again.

If you think nsg is possible scum then we can treat the rest of the playerlist as 1v9 with the same reads still in tact and nsg still going through as a unanimous vote.

[RCEnigma]

I don't want DT over Rui no. I wouldn't take a vig to send DT through if that's what you're asking, he wanted to send me through though. Not sure if that's changed.

[RCEnigma]

Like I literally said shooting me should conf Rui goes to the AP.

[RCEnigma]

I'll compromise on Ankamius being sent if and only if RuiRui is locked as the day 3 AP. Or in the event Rui is killed in the night, I'm sent. But only then.

If I'm shot today then you as a group agree to send Rui today.

[RCEnigma]

Or you want an explanation on why Rui?

[RCEnigma]

Other possible information shots. I don't think Locke has much equity to be AP'd but has consesus reads. DT has similar reads if I was considered for AP.

DDL agreed so what on me and DT and I'm willing to take the shot to get town into the AP.

So I guess I'm just saying shooting RC's slot isn't the only option.

Can you explain what you meant in here, RCE?

If I was being considered for AP that DT would be a decent shot. A town flip is fine and even if I'm still not sent then it at least gets a little more credit towards my Rui read. If he flips scum then you just confscum me with the caveat that I hope you shoot me later like day 3 maybe.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah no DDL dying only really serves to try and discredit RCs reads and it's not a kill he makes when he can push DDL through with a partner day 1 for town cred. Scum should want lylo less than town tbh.

So scumshading RC looks good on RC and Scum RC never sends NSG for town cred. And as Town RC doesn't advocate for Scum!Nsg if he has any doubt. DDL also came around on his nsg read so she's pretty locked for town either way.

[RCEnigma]

So with that in mind my thoughts on Rui are that she could be scum with nsg but never with RC if nsg is town. Like, for scum RC to push nsg through he would have to actively try to be AP'd. Which didn't happen so the shared read is already enough for me to push rui through. In the event all three of us were wrong I trust nsg's ability to reassess.

Locke flipping scum at any point kind of points to Rui being town I think? Just from how he left room to pivot from the read.

I don't remember if ddl agreed on Rui though.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah no DDL dying only really serves to try and discredit RCs reads and it's not a kill he makes when he can push DDL through with a partner day 1 for town cred. Scum should want lylo less than town tbh.

So scumshading RC looks good on RC and Scum RC never sends NSG for town cred. And as Town RC doesn't advocate for Scum!Nsg if he has any doubt. DDL also came around on his nsg read so she's pretty locked for town either way.

I believed that RC's plan was either to send scum-NSG into the AP first and hardpush his other buddy in
or to push townNSG in because he HAS to, and then force both of his buddies or one buddy and himself in

I don't think there's a scenario where he specifically pushes for a LyLo as either alignment except in the EXACT way he did, it's very bad for scum to have to fight strong town in that environment

With DDL dead and RC advocating Rui then me you can see fmpov I would have to then assume the exact scumteam to be RC/NSG/Rui right?

[RCEnigma]

So with that in mind my thoughts on Rui are that she could be scum with nsg but never with RC if nsg is town. Like, for scum RC to push nsg through he would have to actively try to be AP'd. Which didn't happen so the shared read is already enough for me to push rui through. In the event all three of us were wrong I trust nsg's ability to reassess.

Locke flipping scum at any point kind of points to Rui being town I think? Just from how he left room to pivot from the read.

I don't remember if ddl agreed on Rui though.

if all three of you are wrong, then there's much bigger problems than that

and no, RC-slot is locktown; the way he played makes zero sense as scum in this gamestate

If all three are wrong it's still a town pushed AP.

[RCEnigma]

I agree on RC as town which is why I didn't really want to sort alisae. Sorry alisae.

[RCEnigma]

Yes, I agree, I don't know what this is right now... I'm not arguing that any of them are scum.

[RCEnigma]

So with that in mind my thoughts on Rui are that she could be scum with nsg but never with RC if nsg is town. Like, for scum RC to push nsg through he would have to actively try to be AP'd. Which didn't happen so the shared read is already enough for me to push rui through. In the event all three of us were wrong I trust nsg's ability to reassess.

Locke flipping scum at any point kind of points to Rui being town I think? Just from how he left room to pivot from the read.

I don't remember if ddl agreed on Rui though.

if all three of you are wrong, then there's much bigger problems than that

and no, RC-slot is locktown; the way he played makes zero sense as scum in this gamestate

If all three are wrong it's still a town pushed AP.

yes but if ruirui is scum then it's a massive problem since it literally doesn't matter if NSG can sort them in the access point, we still NEED to send town in D3 or we lose... and we would be assuming that we sent only town in

and scum get an extra nightkill to potentially kill a slot that is most likely to figure it out

Then we send your slot or RC's slot. RC is obviously the fallback. I don't think this is a hard game. At least it doesn't have to be.

[RCEnigma]

My hangup with you right now Anka, and this applies to most of the slots right now, is the acknowledgement that both of RC/NSG are likely town while steering away from a Rui AP despite knowing how competent both players are as town.

That and I am also advocating Rui when I could be making a case for myself to be AP'd.

I think even if you have reservations about RC that Rui is the optimal vote.

[RCEnigma]

So vig me, send Rui. The survivor of Anka/Alisae goes through day 3. Gg wp.

[RCEnigma]

0 lol.

[RCEnigma]

We have both vigs though. The odds of sending town is higher the less flipped townies we have. Which is why I'm more comfortable with following early reads in this setup specifically.

[RCEnigma]

Why is that?

[RCEnigma]

I keep thinking to myself, what if the scum team isn't lurking at all and we're screwed? Then Roster Posts to make it all better.

[RCEnigma]

Considering Ankamius and I were the only two to vote Rui....what?

[RCEnigma]

Not ok with sending insomnia regardless of your flip.

[RCEnigma]

RCE, you were also advocating an Alisae push. What happened in the meantime? Why Rui over Ankamius or Alisae?

I wasn't? I don't think Anka is scummy but I feel more sure on Rui town than anything so pushing in order of confidence would be Rui/Anka/then alisae.

I'd also prefer Rui today because the pushback against it tomorrow is going to be a lot higher than it is today. Especially when I consider Anka is the only other slot entertaining AP'ing Rui.

[RCEnigma]

Not ok with sending insomnia regardless of your flip.

Why not? I must say I've been quite town lately, what's your reason for scum reading me, especially if roster were to flip town? I'm pushing a consensus lynch and you're the only one who's trying to push Rui into the AP. Ankamius should be obvtown to anyone. If you're scum reading me, who are my mates?

I don't like you in this post and your latest posts as well. You said "what if lurkers aren't scum" , then you say "this game doesn't need to be hard" and then "I keep thinking to myself, what if scum aren't lurkers".

I don't think you're scum but if you think you're a good AP choice you're mental man, regardless of alignment unless you are 100% sure the other 2 we've sent are town.

You weren't willing to conftown NSG so I see that as highly unlikely. Even I keep doubting myself. I will say if there is an active scum it's within you/Rui and it could go either way I guess.

[RCEnigma]

Then we send your slot or RC's slot. RC is obviously the fallback. I don't think this is a hard game. At least it doesn't have to be.

Are you pushing that I was trying to put alisae through?

[RCEnigma]

Like I don't get why you would ever advocate for yourself knowing as town that you would be mislynch bait. That and the really shitty logic you've ran with all game. You threw a fit because your plan wasn't followed through and that's a large part of the townread on you. Do I think it's impossible that you're scum? No not really.

[RCEnigma]

What does how long you've been here have to do with anything?

[RCEnigma]

Ok so pause moment, your mid day theory was scum within brvr/Locke/DT/roster. Confscum roster so 2 slots within brvr/DT/Locke.

So alisae town, Rui town both of which you're adamantly pushing against and were advocating a policy cop on RC's slot until his rep out. Do you see where you gain the untrust from inconsistency?

[RCEnigma]

You’ve advocated for Rui and you were willing to get shot and even stated it numerous times, now you think she’s scum?

Are you gonna ignore this?

If I thought Rui was scum why would I push to die for the slot?

[RCEnigma]

Im still ok with it if Alisae and Rui are both pushing for it.

[RCEnigma]

Idk something like the vigs not having a presence. I didn't let RC end day 1 early for the same reason.

[RCEnigma]

It's unfortunate since they are basically ICs but they have a part to play in this setup and at the moment are largely uninformed. When that's the case they either don't have a place in this setup or the likelihood scum manipulates their shot increases, especially later in the game.

[RCEnigma]

Is there another game this setup was used?

[RCEnigma]

I guess that's an

@Mod question

.

[RCEnigma]

TGP you still around?

[RCEnigma]

Hmm, why haven't you wanted to be AP'd? Locke and DT.

[RCEnigma]

Now that the Lorge normal is over...yeah probably. Can I vote Rui again?

[RCEnigma]

I don’t like that there are too many people sending Rui in AP but not Anka

Why do I feel like Rui’s push is scum driven and townies are bandwagoning

Just call me scum then.

[RCEnigma]

1 part RC's read. 1 part how easily slots townread labrats replace out but not RC's and then just ditched all of his reads on rep out. The pool of players supporting Anka but not Rui, that's nothing against Anka but obviously I'm going to ask myself why X group is willing to push Anka through if I think scum may lurk in it. If we AP Anka over Rui I feel the night kill makes the game slightly harder which doesn't apply the other way around (Rui first).

[RCEnigma]

For example we push Anka through today, Rui dies tonight since I will literally die to make Rui the AP nom. Knowing I'm town scum can't really let that happen. So with Rui dead it's probably a pool of myself/Alisae/insomnia and slots are already shading 2 of the 3. So I'd imagine there will be some split there.

Or alternative Rui goes through Anka is the nightkill and I probably advocate Alisae with a vig on me. Though I'm more hesitant on that because it gives room for the RC!scum theory to return.

[RCEnigma]

I think pushing you through today makes scum shoot Rui every time. Whereas they make a suboptimal kill the other way around. And the town path is still in tact even in the event you are the nightkill with Rui being AP'd instead.

[RCEnigma]

I think that's accurate, just fmpov one pov has less wifom than the other is my point I guess.

[RCEnigma]

Path, not pov.

[RCEnigma]

It gives less credibility to RC being scum.

[RCEnigma]

Although I haven't given deep thought to RC being scum so I can't say with certainty how associations play out.

[RCEnigma]

The team is never nsg/RC/Rui so Rui flipping town doesn't clear RC and RC isn't with Rui if nsg is town since he dies night 2 or is a likely vig target day 3. So he doesn't get to manipulate the final AP nom and no offense to ruis game but nsg wins that lylo.

[RCEnigma]

I'm willing to give it up and say town win regardless of the order. We are just playing musical reads atm.

[RCEnigma]

There are exactly 2 scum on the ruirui wagon

But that's on purpose

I get the thinking behind this but only thing k it works if scum is already AP'd.

[RCEnigma]

All living slots flip prior to lylo. If it isn't a town stomp then wifoming like that is pretty pointless.

[RCEnigma]

In this weird spot I want to hammer because I feel it's right but I want to shake the vigs or at least let them rep out if they don't have the time to play.

[RCEnigma]

Unless you think it disrupts Alisae being AP'd I'm not sure I follow actually.

[RCEnigma]

Ok yeah Rui today then, I'm just a little slow.

[RCEnigma]

Fwiw I think I can block that from happening regardless Anka.

[RCEnigma]

They will dodge with the nk if Anka is the AP I believe.

[RCEnigma]

Don't know if we are in the same page or not theory wise.

I'm fine with alisae or Rui. Gonna ghost the thread till vigs remember it's here.

[RCEnigma]

Alisae, you have to give me the town leader role as I’m the only one that understands what we’re doing heheheh

(This is if we’re sending you to AP)

This is gonna be a no from me dawg.

[RCEnigma]

Vig's do need to be aware of what's happening. BOTH of them.

[RCEnigma]

If we need a shot, yes. Yes they do.

[RCEnigma]

....the other slots aren't even playing.

[RCEnigma]

@Mod: Does a vig shot end the day?

[RCEnigma]

Ty.

VOTE: Alisae sure.

[RCEnigma]

Well I could have just shot DDL because he townread me so. That's kinda surface.

[RCEnigma]

If Rui stays alive tomorrow, she’s 90% scum and her scum mates pushed her from today.

If Rui is town, she’ll die tomorrow, which proves my theory that she was being pushed by scum either way because she’s being universally town read and scum want to get rid of her by any means.

Again, you could just say "RCE is scum" here.

[RCEnigma]

Well I could have just shot DDL because he townread me so. That's kinda surface.

you could have but you wouldn't when there are way more important targets to kill

DDL wasn't like a consensus D2 access point from where I'm sitting

Yeah but like, I don't kill RC there because I'm on the Fringe of his AP choices and without NSG he's the loudest voice of the town. Plus he isn't advocating to AP himself and probably talks people out of entertaining it day 2.

I maybe shoot Rui but that's only if I don't think I can out-town her.

DDL just makes sense, outside of that there wasn't strong consideration for anyone else.

[RCEnigma]

I just wanna be shot man.

[RCEnigma]

Just her to prodge and vote at some point. Good fun.

[RCEnigma]

The vig shot on RC is if he flips scum, then there is a really high chance of NSG being scum with him.

I'm town regardless of whether RC is town or not (although I think that he is). There is no universe in which me and RC are both scum here and the decision is made to send me. It just doesn't happen.

like

I've neve played with NSG before

but I HAVE played with RC plenty of times and I've seen enough about NSG's townplay and scumplay to believe that this is very likely to be genuinely true.

RC's plan in this scenario is to win by sending two scum into the AP, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense with NSG being scum unless the third is Ruirui or RCE.

See that's the thing. I don't like RuiRui or RCE in this game.

I've established my reasons on RuiRui. On RCE, I believe he's said that he has ideas that he doesn't want to share.

I understand this from a veteran member like RC but from someone relatively new like RCE it seems like posturing. That said, I can't remember a game with him so I don't know.

do you think that all the town just stopped caring?

I know I did. Sorry.

[RCEnigma]

Fine with shooting myself or Insomnia today.

[RCEnigma]

Site meta is literally becoming "just play around Creatures meta to win" and it's honestly hilarious.

[RCEnigma]

Anka, please don't. I genuinely want you to consider the fact that Vig exists to give town more information.

Insomnia, I like that. We just need to convince one of the DayVigs.

Creature is a reasonable person and I think he'll be able to see this too.

NinEdit: I don't like 1744 by Alisae at all. Realizes things are turning against eir, tries to contribute, but the contribution is ultimately redirecting our attention.

Is it cool if we confscum you if Alisae flips town then?

[RCEnigma]

I don't trust anybody to meta Creature anymore after how universally wrong everyone was on him in Anuket

Almost like he's becoming self aware.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Ankamius

[RCEnigma]

What does town cred get me when I've been trying to get shot all game? Zzz

[RCEnigma]

Alisae's vote on Ank is not good. Completely ignoring discussion to push this. Unvote if your vote is on Ank please.

@RCEnigma

: I am town, but if that's what it takes to vig Ali, yes. Frankly, even conf!scumming me as town works for town. If Ali flips as town, we send Ank to AP as e wanted and win the game anyways.

If Ali's scum, I don't get conf!scummed and I'm correct.

Either way, since my plan with Ali does not hinge on myself getting APd, I am fine with your suggestion.

This is assuming that RC/Labrat were scum together and set up their 1v1 double rep out. If not and you think it's just Alisae then you would just AP Anka.

Getting yourself confscummed as town doesn't help us either way and isn't how I would want the shot used.

[RCEnigma]

5 people wanted to be shot

Think all of them are town?

Just because you are getting stomped, a request to end your suffering doesn’t make you town

I don't care about any of the other slots. Idk what your deal is this game link you just took a nosedive early day 2.

[RCEnigma]

What does town cred get me when I've been trying to get shot all game? Zzz

Town wouldn't be asking for themselves to be shot if they still cared.

Town would be trying to get Ali shot because either way, her flip gives us the most information.

Why don't you people get it. In this setup, town has inherently less information. The AP format means that we need information in the case of LyLo. We need to do this for information.

It's simple setup design. Given the fact that Ali the current modfather and doesn't see this makes me scum lean eir more.

My flip also disproves an RC/nsg/rce team or an RC/nsg/Rui team. So the constant notion that RC's slot is the only shot that gives info is silly. Or it's scummy. Or it's just both.

[RCEnigma]

Nsg is already conftown regardless of RCs flip...

[RCEnigma]

There isn't a world I agree to send insomnia to AP. It just doesn't happen.

[RCEnigma]

Hello yes it's me, ya boi. I would preferrably like to be the shot. Still wanna send Rui. But, I'm not down with shooting for potential scum because it makes the third AP a wifom slot if the vig shot is being aimed by "town". Scum can only really buss via the vig shot.

Shooting town that isn't going to be AP'd isn't really a big deal and you get two guaranteed scum flips going into lylo.

[RCEnigma]

Oh Alisae got replaced. Hmm, maybe shoot freezer in the face so he doesn't have to read the game. I'm just here so I don't get prodded.

[RCEnigma]

And I'm sure vigs know how their role works but on a scumflip feel free to take the second shot. Holster on a town flip.

[RCEnigma]

Well I mean half us slots aren't really involved in the game at this point. Like there isn't a reason for us to post.

[RCEnigma]

I still feel like there's someone here deepwolfing

Who would you classify as deepwolf?

Roster.

[RCEnigma]

ok so trekkie showing up and just memeing or whatever seems like a scumclaim, cool, that's fine.

where is this surge of insomnia votes coming from? scum's last ditch effort to avoid APing ruirui/gif.

Shoot RuiRui or GIF, AP the other unless it's a scumflip. Ezgame. I'm caught up and have to leave now.

Yeah this has been the plan for like 3 days now. Except for the sudden push for insomnia day 3. I'm no rocket surgeon though.

[RCEnigma]

No. Because if it doesn't end the game I'm not likely to put in the effort to figure lylo out.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Rui Rui

[RCEnigma]

Or we could mass vote Rui and not worry about a replacement.

[RCEnigma]

All players flip pre-lylo. Nsg is conf town regardless of RC's slots alignment flip. You only have to figure out between two slots. Well NSG does. But flips will heavily implicate the remainder so.

[RCEnigma]

Super fun game VOTE: insomnia

[RCEnigma]

I'm about where ank was at around reading RC. I couldn't wrap my head around why Scum!RC would send Town! NSG knowing the two can't be AP'd together. It would have had to be me+RC+Rui or me+RC+NSG to make sense to me and I know neither are true. And if he starts pushing someone obscure like DT or something then it's just a scumclaim. I didn't think RC would hole himself in like that.

[RCEnigma]

Not the first or last time. I'm a nice guy lol.

[RCEnigma]

Tanks a bunch.