Mushroom Kingdom Mafia (Game over!)

[somestrangeflea]

/confirm'd

[somestrangeflea]

Ok, so I wake up, get excited because we're on page 5 already, and then realise that most of it is pointless Gimbo posts. Gimbo, please get an avatar change as well. Seriously, it would be ok if your posts weren't regular, but as they are, it is seriously annoying.

You're like me, but a few hours in the future...

1 to 23, top down.

Original Roll String: 1d23

1 23-Sided Dice: (21) = 21

[somestrangeflea]

Vote: Mr. Incrediball

You can't argue with dice...

God, I missed this...

[somestrangeflea]

vote alvinz95

Wait! I CAN argue with dice!

unvote,
vote somestrangeflea

You don't get to play because you haven't done it in almost-but-probably-not-exactly every game you've played, in the

exact same way

, since you joined up.

[somestrangeflea]

vote alvinz95

Wait! I CAN argue with dice!

unvote,
vote somestrangeflea

This post is win.

SSF, do you already know why truely randomizing your vote is anti-town, or do I need to go through the rant?

Anti-town maybe, but not, given the context, scummy.

[somestrangeflea]

cuz I was the 2nd one on Alabaska and yours would've been the 3rd, the 3rd one on a bandwagon...

Dude, you're right! L-10! It's too risky!

lol, I'm joking, it takes 13 to lynch, wonder how long it'll take for 13 of us to actually reach a concensus...

You claim you're joking, yet hold your vote? Seems a tad inconsistent.

This....

Vote Xtoxm

for being the only one who still hasn't confirmed.

Unvote
Vote:Xtoxm

Let's get him out so fast he won't know what the fuck happened. At least for fun, c'mon people, please???

...and this...

Vote

gimbo

.

Too easy?

OMGUS and fuck your sarcasm with a passion

Unvote
Vote: TheSweatpantsNinja

...seem remarkably opportunistic.

Maybe, just maybe my

meta

is to act dumb so that you gusy will think I am acting dumb

A player's "meta" is essentially information which is gathered about how a player acts in certain situations. This information is gathered from researching a player's completed games, of which you have none. Therefore you have no meta.

but I am actually using reverse psychology and am actually dumb but because you think I am acting dumb you are suspiciosu and lynch me the 1st day and discover that I am an innocent Townie and you can all go fuck yourselves for getting

youselves

closer to losing, how's that?

Oh, so the lynching of an innocent Townie doesn't get

you

closer to losing? How's that?

In conclusion,

Unvote, Vote: Gimbo

.

Although you probably saw that coming from the moment you started reading this...

[somestrangeflea]

I had no idea every word I type must be scrutinized.

Scrutinizing over every word, so long as you're doing it right, is likely to provide the best results.

Dude, now don't go and analyze every word up there

There's something inherently scummy about a player who doesn't want to be inspected.

I typed that in like 1 minutes

This is the problem. If you apply such an attitude to the gameplay as a whole, then blatant carelessness could lead to your downfall.

Fos: Cream 147, somestrangeflea

...voting one after the after and completely agreeing, one of you is scum...

You have a conclusion, you have evidence, but you have no reasoning to connect the two, and thus no argument.

[somestrangeflea]

This vote is not about wagoning, its about you attacking the EXTREMELY easy lynch target on the basis of him acting normal for him.

FOS SSF

secondary to that, but you at least tried to make a case.

I find it difficult to see why I should come off scummy from this situation. It's not as though there was a Gimbo-wagon and, reading from the posts so far, it didn't look as though many other people actually saw Gimbo as scummy at that point in time. I personally don't believe a 24-player town will lynch based on their personal opinion of Gimbo, so I disagree with your argument that he was an "extremely easy lynch target" for me.

That said, I will agree that Cream's vote does seem a tad opportunistic, but I will not research, in depth, Gimbo's behaviour in ongoing games because:
1. They're ongoing, so I wouldn't be able to comment on the results anyway.
2. I don't feel that Gimbo's personality traits can act as an excuse for genuine tells.

Besides, what makes you not scummy?

I don't see very much that makes me inherently not-scummy, but it's much easier to get a lynch based on scummy stuff that someone has done than non-scummy stuff that they haven't...

So, gimbo, pro-town, bowser, nk-immune miller vig, whatever, needs to be removed.

Give one coin to armlx.

I trust that you will do what needs to be done.

It seems you're willing to see this player dead regardless of the role he may actually hold.

How you know that you can trust armlx?

This, plus:
What makes you think that armlx actually

wants

to kill Gimbo?

IGMEOY: TSN

The rules never stated how coins will be given.

I think he's referring to Rule 23.

[somestrangeflea]

Please comment on the Socialist Mass Coin Redistribution Plan For Victory.

I'm very meh about it. It seems like something which the scum could manipulate fairly easily...

If we don't combine, all that's going to happen is scum are going to start killing us off, and then we'll have less coins, and still not enough to do anything with.

That seems like a good idea, or at least preferable to the alternative, which is standing around twiddling our thumbs.

We could, you know,

play Mafia

. You seem to be focussing on the coins as though they are the sole factor that will make or break the game. They're like powers in any other game: They're useful if we've got them, but we shouldn't be relying on them. Vigs, Cops and Bulletproofs (powers which we can buy) exist in many other games, but they don't serve as a replacement for standard scumhunting.

Because no matter what, someone is going to die before N1 and we can either decide to do this meticulously and actually lynch the one who seems the most scummy (which might take god knows how long given the amount needed to lynch:13!)

I'm willing to bet that if there is a lynch, it'll be done by June 25th.

Deadline: June 25

Gimbo's claim is weird. It starts off as a role that can revive, then changes to a Toad with a one-shot ability, then into a Toad with an item. I don't have a large amount of confidence in it. What I will say is this: Given that the revival is an item, Gimbo's claim does not, in and of itself, hint towards or against any specific alignment.

Hi, btw 1-Up can onyl be used during the day, that's why I was really upset I forgot about the 1-item clause

You've only just found out that your item is day-use only? Surely this is the sort of thing you should know from the start of the game?

FaerieLord, I still insist that my outting will be a good thing in the long run.

The outing of you as what? You're nothing but a regular Townie with an item (which any number of other players

could

have) who claimed with little/no provocation whatsoever.

I'm not buying it.

[somestrangeflea]

We could, you know, play Mafia. You seem to be focussing on the coins as though they are the sole factor that will make or break the game. They're like powers in any other game: They're useful if we've got them, but we shouldn't be relying on them. Vigs, Cops and Bulletproofs (powers which we can buy) exist in many other games, but they don't serve as a replacement for standard scumhunting.

Thanks for that strawman.

You're welcome... wheat...dude (?)

[somestrangeflea]

We could, you know, play Mafia. You seem to be focussing on the coins as though they are the sole factor that will make or break the game. They're like powers in any other game: They're useful if we've got them, but we shouldn't be relying on them. Vigs, Cops and Bulletproofs (powers which we can buy) exist in many other games, but they don't serve as a replacement for standard scumhunting.

Thanks for that strawman. Obviously we should also be scumhunting. But we have this coin mechanic, and we ought to use it in the way that most benefits the town.

It wasn't an argument, just an observation.

[somestrangeflea]

SSF saying that he agrees with TSN that coin stuff can break the game but then saying he doesn't want to pile coins is odd. Saying you don't think TSN's strategy is a breaking one is valid, but saying it may be but not wanting to do it is shady.

Could you get quotes for this? I don't recall saying that the coin mechanic could break the game. I said that it could be manipulated by scum, and it's not as important as scumhunting, IIRC...

Yea! I'm confirmed townie

No, you're not. Here's why...

SSF also attacked Gimbo's claim, saying 1-up is not a alignment based item. SSF, it is. Revival is a very town specific action.

It's a town specific action, which means revival would be an action for a pro-town role, but, as I've already mentioned, the revival isn't part of a role, it's an item which could be completely independent of the role which holds it.

Also note, there was something he wasn't telling us about the item which gives the scum an advantage...

Though he did leave out one interesting property of the revived player... I'll give Gimbo a chance to reveal that, or tell me there's a reason he plans not too. Note: This property makes it quite useful for scum, which is why I'm curious.

...and thus it is feasible that a scum member could be given the item at the start of the game.

That said, whilst I don't agree with the confirmed-Gimbo arguement, I can see that a large number of other players would. So

Unvote

, for now.

What is rubbing me wrong with TSN is that he FOS's anyone that disagrees with him.

This I agree with. TSN, you've suggested the coin claiming, people have agreed, people have disagreed, you've provided your counter-arguments against those people, which is all well and good, but it's posts like this...

In another news, I don't see nearly enough coin-claiming.

...pushing the issue with no new reasoning, evidence, or prompting, which bug me.

That's absolutely right. And people know that you're always telling the truth now, so all opinions and comments you make are valid.

Bear in mind that "valid" =/= "correct", "accurate", "logical", "sensible", etc.

With 20 people to investigate you have a 1 out of 5 chance of finding scum with 4 players looking.

This is true, if there is one scum in the group of 20 players, and one scum only. 1/20 (odds of investigating the scum), * 4 (number of investigators) = 4/20 = 1 in 5 (your number).

Think of a hypothetical situation with 2 scum in that group of 20. The odds of one player investigating a scum is 2/20, or 1/10. Now, since there are four investigators, you multiply that probability by 4, giving a 4 in 10 chance, or 3 in 5.

See how the numbers change with more/less scum in the group being investigated? This is the point which iamausername and some other players were trying to get at. Also, see this post from Cream.

[somestrangeflea]

Since you are still questionign my alignment, think of it this way. finding even a single scum is hard enough in mafia games, why would a scum be given an item that could potentially allow them to revive a dead player.

There could be a bunch of possible reasons. "To balance pro-town items", "To balance pro-town coin count" are just a few.

Im feeling really lazy atm.
Care to explain me why are you voting for him?

Well at least you're honest...
Also note: If you don't do your own research, you're susceptable to mindless bandwaggoning. I think you could be setting yourself up to hop on.

FoS: Pop

SO why not you?

I call "Burden of proof"...

Cream, the town wants you dead. So no, it is not being opportunistic. It is following the town's lead. Which in this case is a null-tell

Last I heard it was mindless bandwaggoning...
Also note: As previously mentioned, "the town wants you dead" is bullshit.

FoS: FL

being too town sometimes is a good scum-tell.

I certainly have not been too townie this game lol. I am aware that it is often a good tell,

X

"Too Townie", is a very well documented piece of bullshit logic.

Deadline approaching, this post needs a vote.

I can see the logic behind a Cream wagon, but I feel there are better lynches today. I agree with Surye. FL needs to be examined more, and quickly too.

Vote: FL

[somestrangeflea]

No, Gimbo. We've already decided that we're going to end up doing some kind of mass-vig/cop tonight.

...since when had we decided that? It looks to me that you're not

really

paying attention to what's going on.

Maybe you don't need to.

IGMEOY: Riceballtail

I think i will go with the majority, i don't have any idea from this day one. For now:

Vote Cream147

Any decent reason that you're voting me, or are you simply voting me for going with the majority's sake.

FOS:sideney

. It's opportunistic, and it's self-admitted bandwagoning.

Absolutely.

IGMEOY: Sideney

For completeness sake,

ISGMEO Popular and Cream

.

[somestrangeflea]

Do you think Gimbo could be scum now that we know that the 1UP mushroom also has a scum ability?

My opinion of this has already been made quite clear.

What was the exact reasn for voting Faerie Lord?

I voted for FL for pretty much the same thing that armlx did. Also, deadline was/is approaching, and there wasn't a particularly strong alternative to the Cream-wagon. We needed to find one.

In other news...

Ehh, I rarely vote. See other games.

You haven't made a "non-random" vote all game. There's caution, but this is just a complete lack of commitment.

[somestrangeflea]

Whoops. I was looking at this:

The exact reason for FOS/voting FL was

The reasoning is still valid though...

[somestrangeflea]

Phoebus question definately does not sound like the words of someone who got the townie PM,

Hahaha!
And what exactly is the townie PM?
Are you role fishing?


Are there even any specific non townies?
For all I know - there's the mafia, a bunch of toads who can buy powers and that's it.
Even Peach might be a mechanic from where I sit...

You are right clueless, you are.

What exactly have I said or.. rather... not said that's so evil and scumbaggy?

Well, you accuse someone of fishing, then fish yourself, so I'm gonna go with hypocrisy...

...interspersed with ad hominem.

Unvote, Vote: Phoebus

For those who aren't aware, I was reaction fishing with my NL vote.

Of course you were.
For future reference, if I do anything scummy, it's just to test for reactions...

[somestrangeflea]

LOL wait. Riceballtail is so much more scummy than Rogue Shenanigans...

NL just for reactions? Please.

Unvote, Vote Riceballtail

Is exactly the scummy reaction I was looking for.

Why do you think this is more likely a scum reaction than town?

Because I find that his use of words, in particular, are what makes it scummy. They sound pro-town upon looking, but if you run them through your head as though someone were saying it, they sound very anti-town whichever way you run it.

That's because there is no way for "LOL" (or "ELL OH ELL") to sound sincere.

Mod edit:
Visible votecount:
Phoebus (5): ashmite84, killa seven, Riceballtail, somestrangeflea, Rogue Shenanigans
Cream147 (4): armlx, Alabaska J, TheSweatpantsNinja, sideney
FaerieLord (3): Surye, mr. incrediball, iamausername
Riceballtail (2): skitzer, Gimbo
Rogue Shenanigans (1): farside22
Alabaska J (1): populartajo
somestrangeflea (1): goborage
killa seven (1): Phoebus

No lynch (1): malthusis

Not voting (5): andersonw, Cream147, FaerieLord, Celebloki, DragonsofSummer

With 24 alive it takes 13 real votes to lynch. Deadline: June 25th. At deadline, it takes 7 real votes to lynch.

[somestrangeflea]

cream's wagon is dead.

Is this even a valid reason to unvote?

It kind of is when we have a deadline in two days and we need to get someone to 7 votes to get a lynch.

Which is why I'm going to

Unvote, Vote: Rogue Shenanigans

too.

Just pointing out that, if deadline is drawing near without them, I am willing to change my vote to make up the seven needed to lynch.

I'm following the standard

Any lynch>No lynch

reasoning.

Mod: Can we get prods on any player sideney, Surye, Celebloki, andersonw, malthusis and FaerieLord please?

All the above players have not posted since this time on Friday.

[somestrangeflea]

Rogue only has six votes and we need

thirteen

to lynch. Throw your votes in now.

It's only thirteen to lynch

before

the deadline hits. The limit falls to seven

at

deadline.

[somestrangeflea]

Alabaska, i suggest you go save your own sorry ass in T.T and not mingle among us toads when you're safe anyways

IF YOU'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT OUTSIDE GAMES GO STAND OUTSIDE.

[somestrangeflea]

*cough*

Please don't talk about ongoing games.

[somestrangeflea]

In other news, everyone calling

Phoebus

"Pheebz" is annoying me for some reason.

^Pheebs

THERE ARE NO OTHER PHEEBSES.

OR PHEEBZES.

[somestrangeflea]

Something really bugs me about that claim. I don't think DK has been pro-Mario in ANY game in the Mushroom Kingdom. If I am wrong, someone can correct me, but vote stands.

Mario party series? He's definitely anti-bowser, almost by definition.

Mario Party maybe, but not Mushroom Kingdom.

I call fakeclaim.

Unvote, Vote: Rogue Shenanigans

[somestrangeflea]

Mario Party maybe, but not Mushroom Kingdom.

Mario games is mario games.

How observant.

Mario games doesn't automatically => Mushroom Kingdom.

[somestrangeflea]

By the way guys. If you are really set on lynching me... put your money where your noose is. The banana I get is an ITEM. I can be confirmed in the same way gimbo was.

I didn't buy that either.

[somestrangeflea]

Yoshi - I get no items, no coins, and no vote (ever, and no you can't give them to me, they become forfeit when anything is in my possession). At night I can attempt to eat a scum. If I hit a scum, they don't get a vote the next day. I am town.

More believable than a "Super Banana".

[somestrangeflea]

Sigh, another testable claim, though this one is cheaper if he is scum and more expensive if town.

Unvote, Vote Cream

I KNOW, LET'S WAGON AS MANY PEOPLE AS WE CAN TO CLAIM BEFORE DEADLINE HITS, THEN LYNCH WHOEVER WE HAPPEN TO BE ON AT THE TIME.

This is a setup designed to make massclaim ineffective. This is D1 and we've had three fullclaims. This is thus a bad thing.

At this point, whether claims are "testable" or not doesn't matter. It's whether or not they're believable that's important. Also note that all of the claims so far could just as easily be anti-town.

To sum up:
Let's cut the wagon->claim->wagon->claim... crap and make sure we lynch someone.

[somestrangeflea]

Also 8x simulpost.

[somestrangeflea]

How the heck do you think Yoshi is anti-town? You could be delicious tonight SSF.

Yoshi (Pro-town rolename) -> Vote nullifier (Could be pro- or anti- town)

Yoshi nameclaim could easily be a substitute for, for example, Piranha Plant.

Remember, I'm not saying it's likely, but I'm making sure that everyone knows it's a possibility.

Ohh the suspense…

It's like Speed.
Also, you get bonus points for using genuine ellipsis. Well done.

[somestrangeflea]

Cream and Riceball are on 4, Rogue and Phoebus are on 3, K7 is on 2, FaerieLord, Alabaska and No-Lynch are on 1.

Unvote, Vote: Riceballtail

Now he's on 5.
22 hours 15 minutes till deadline.

[somestrangeflea]

RBT is confirmed to have that role.

No.

He's confirmed to have a role that has "You cannot hold items" in it. No more, no less.

[somestrangeflea]

We can also confirm two of the other three aspects of his claim easily enough (if anyone feels like wasting a coin on such). And I think the existence of a scum role that can hold no coins/items and has no vote is far less plausible than pro-town Yoshi with same.

It's a fairly plausible scum role if you take into account that, as a scum, the fact that Yoshi can only nullify scum votes is BS. Being able to nullify town votes is quite a useful scum ability.

No reason to lynch confirmable townies when there are still other suspects.

We don't

have

any confirmable townies. We have some semi-confirmable roles. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. A bunch of people (including you, I think) thought the same thing about Gimbo and his role.

[somestrangeflea]

We don't have any confirmable townies. We have some semi-confirmable roles. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. A bunch of people (including you, I think) thought the same thing about Gimbo and his role.

Semi-confirmable roles is the same thing at this point in the game.

I CLAIM "SOMEONE WHO CAN RECEIVE COINS". GIVE ME A COIN TO PROVE THIS, AND I WILL RETURN IT.

*receives coin*
*returns coin*

I'M A CONFIRMED TOWNIE YAY.

[somestrangeflea]

We can also confirm two of the other three aspects of his claim easily enough (if anyone feels like wasting a coin on such). And I think the existence of a scum role that can hold no coins/items and has no vote is far less plausible than pro-town Yoshi with same.

It's a fairly plausible scum role if you take into account that, as a scum, the fact that Yoshi can only nullify scum votes is BS. Being able to nullify town votes is quite a useful scum ability.

OK, I can understand your position now, although I still think it's far more likely that Riceball is telling the truth than it is that Rogue is.

Ditto, but the Rogue wagon died.

[somestrangeflea]

If your vote was there, both would be on four at this point.

Touché.

Unvote, Vote: RS

.

(I'm now keeping an updated VC open in Notepad... It's hard to keep up.)

[somestrangeflea]

We don't have any confirmable townies. We have some semi-confirmable roles. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. A bunch of people (including you, I think) thought the same thing about Gimbo and his role.

Semi-confirmable roles is the same thing at this point in the game.

I CLAIM "SOMEONE WHO CAN RECEIVE COINS". GIVE ME A COIN TO PROVE THIS, AND I WILL RETURN IT.

*receives coin*
*returns coin*

I'M A CONFIRMED TOWNIE YAY.

I don't even feel this needs to be justified with a response.

It's called "Reductio ad absurdum".

And it's f**king awesome.

[somestrangeflea]

It's called "Reductio ad absurdum".

Yeah, that. It falls in that large pile of bad reasonings.

...

This is the part where you explain why.

Mod edit:
Visible votecount:
Riceballtail (4): Gimbo, TheSweatpantsNinja, Alabaska J, Surye
Cream147 (4): sideney, Riceballtail, armlx, farside22
Rogue Shenanigans (4): iamausername, mr. incrediball, skitzer, somestrangeflea
Phoebus (3): ashmite84, killa seven, Rogue Shenanigans
Alabaska J (1): populartajo
killa seven (2): Phoebus, goborage

No lynch (1): malthusis

Not voting (5): andersonw, Cream147, FaerieLord, Celebloki, DragonsofSummer

With 24 alive it takes 13 real votes to lynch. Deadline: June 25th, 6 PM GMT. At deadline, it takes 7 real votes to lynch.

[somestrangeflea]

And if you call Strawman I'm going to beat you to death.

[somestrangeflea]

Because you aren't using a reasonable, applicable comparison. You are comparing chihuahuas to wolves.

I'm not "comparing anything to anything". I'm applying your argument...

Semi-confirmable roles is the same thing [as confirmable townies] at this point in the game.

...to an absurd situation (claiming a role which can receive coins) to highlight the flaws within it.

What you are doing is Strawmanning though.

GRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAH

*ahem*

Not true. Strawmanning is when you take a twisted form of an opposing argument and then disprove it. As you can see above, I haven't twisted your argument.

[somestrangeflea]

hoyl shit, the amount of mass-claimign going on, lol

There are exactly 0.125 mass-claims in the game so far.

...

rofl

[somestrangeflea]

Because you aren't using a reasonable, applicable comparison. You are comparing chihuahuas to wolves.

I'm not "comparing anything to anything". I'm applying your argument...

Semi-confirmable roles is the same thing [as confirmable townies] at this point in the game.

...to an absurd situation (claiming a role which can receive coins) to highlight the flaws within it.

What you are doing is Strawmanning though.

GRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAH

*ahem*

Not true. Strawmanning is when you take a twisted form of an opposing argument and then disprove it. As you can see above, I haven't twisted your argument.

Yes. That is what you are doing. He is proven to have a non-standard role, and that is good enough for now. Your argument was "the game rules work, so I must be town", mine is "the game rules don't apply to him, which is a sign his role works as claimed, and usually that is pro-town".

Alright, fair enough. You've proven that my example was flawed. (Also, I apologise for being an ass about it)

But my argument still stands. Why should people who have had aspects of their role confirmed be seen as more likely to be town than those who have not?

[somestrangeflea]

EDWOP: ...potentially anti-town aspects of their role...

[somestrangeflea]

that specific ability seems very odd for a scum.

Same with perma jail.

I can see scum uses for a permanent stoppage of a players Night Choices and the removal of a Townie vote...

Scum are more likely to be vanilla then town

Huh. I would say this is less likely to be true in Themed games.

Mod edit:
Visible votecount:
Rogue Shenanigans (5): iamausername, mr. incrediball, skitzer, somestrangeflea, Surye
Cream147 (4): sideney, Riceballtail, armlx, farside22
Phoebus (3): ashmite84, killa seven, Rogue Shenanigans
Riceballtail (2): TheSweatpantsNinja, Alabaska J
killa seven (2): Phoebus, goborage
Alabaska J (1): populartajo

No lynch (1): malthusis

Not voting (6): andersonw, Cream147, FaerieLord, Celebloki, DragonsofSummer, Gimbo

With 24 alive it takes 13 real votes to lynch. Deadline: June 25th, 6 PM GMT. At deadline, it takes 7 real votes to lynch.

[somestrangeflea]

I can see scum uses for a permanent stoppage of a players Night Choices and the removal of a Townie vote...

Did he say it removed the vote?

Referring to RBT's claim.

And what about the bulletproof part?

What with the ability for Town to buy killing items, I'd say Bulletproof is fairly useful for scum too.

[somestrangeflea]

Also, I'd like to ask a question to everyone on the Cream wagon.

If the wagon were to gain momentum, and Cream claimed something in the same vein as the claims so far, what would you do?

[somestrangeflea]

SSF: I would unvote. Not sure from there.

I'm guessing deadline will be too soon to build up a non-Cream, non-Rogue, non-Riceball wagon. If you're crazy lucky, you'll get Phoebus!

My point is this: I don't want to run the risk of No Lynching because everyone we go to lynch claims something that might confirm them in the future. At the end of the day (which is now less than 18 hours away), we're just going to have to take a chance and lynch someone we think is scummy, despite their claim.

Surely you can see where I'm coming from?

What with the ability for Town to buy killing items, I'd say Bulletproof is fairly useful for scum too.

Trading the ability to kill for bullet proof is not that good for scum.

Only if they're the last scum alive...

[somestrangeflea]

yea, i was thinking that too...a super banana...even the name sounds bad, plus the whole thing seems made up.

Gimbo speaks the truth.

[somestrangeflea]

I think our first port of call should be to answer this question:

Should Gimbo revive populartajo?
Y/N

I'm abstaining for the moment. The reason is the property which makes the item useful for scum. More specifically the "one interesting property of the revived player"¹. To be perfectly honest, reading back over this, I'm not entirely sure why we didn't push for that piece of information. From what I can see, Gimbo and Surye agreed that it should be kept a secret and then we all moved on...

Still, thoughts, everyone?

¹ Surye, post 337.

[somestrangeflea]

It may be in the town's best interests not to announce that info publicly.

The point I'm making is that I find it difficult to imagine a property which makes the above statement true whilst being useful for scum. As you haven't seen the item yet, feel free to prove me wrong with some example properties.

somestrangeflea: why are you ability-fishing?

Because I expect a strong Y-vote, and I'd like everything to be out in the open

before

you use the item so we know where we stand.

SSF: how about reviving Rogue? just asking...

I see no reason why we should revive a non-town player.

[somestrangeflea]

if I'm scum, then I would know you were town, and I would know that you'd likely just use it on whoever got NK'd.

Bowser's Army and DK Crew say otherwise...

Also Gimbo:

SSF: how about reviving Rogue? just asking...

I see no reason why we should revive a non-town player.

Why do you think we should revive Rogue?

[somestrangeflea]

Slow down.

Thread's only been open for 7 hours...

[somestrangeflea]

if I'm scum, then I would know you were town, and I would know that you'd likely just use it on whoever got NK'd.

Bowser's Army and DK Crew say otherwise...

Also Gimbo:

SSF: how about reviving Rogue? just asking...

I see no reason why we should revive a non-town player.

Why do you think we should revive Rogue?

Sry, i can't answer that, all i can say is that reviving Rogue should be made a viable option

...

OK.

[somestrangeflea]

If the special property is what I think it is, that was not a good move...

[somestrangeflea]

If the special property is what I think it is, that was not a good move...

What do you think it was?

I think that the revived player's alignment changes to that of the reviver.

I'm revealing this because if I'm right, it makes no difference, since pop was town anyway.

[somestrangeflea]

I think that the revived player's alignment changes to that of the reviver.

Meh, I still don't see why that would be a problem. Just given a scum group a recruit like that would be unreal powerful, so Gimbo would be confirmed town on balance reasons.

If I'm right, then reviving Rogue would clue us in to the identities of his entire scum group.

[somestrangeflea]

I thought about it too SSF, but that'd be a bit unfair unless there's a good number of different scumgroups

There's at least two, so I think that's highly possible.

I think Gimbo should say the entirety of the item, now that he used it

Keffed.

Dear Gimbo,
I would like a full-full-full-claim. Not like these almost-nearly-full-claims we've got since Day 1. I want to know, right now, exactly what the hell is going on.
Love, Flea.
xoxo

[somestrangeflea]

Dear Gimbo,
I would like a full-full-full-claim. Not like these almost-nearly-full-claims we've got since Day 1. I want to know, right now, exactly what the hell is going on.
Love, Flea.
xoxo

Also Surye, feel free to jump in if Gimbo won't.

[somestrangeflea]

Surye, don't, and it'll be very anti-town of you to reveal. Don't fuck me over plz

Why? What can possibly be so special about PT now that no-one can know?

He's a confirmed townie which means that he's, in all likelihood, going to be dead tomorrow. If the special property is pro-town, it doesn't matter, because he's probably dead anyway. If the special property is anti-town, we'll lynch him, then give you a metaphorical slap across the face for making us waste a lynch.

Vote: Gimbo

[somestrangeflea]

EDWOP:
...if the special property is very anti-town...

Because mildly anti-town properties will probably require some sort of "is it worth losing a confirmed townie?" debate...

[somestrangeflea]

Actually...
...pressure votes on Gimbo won't work mainly because a fair number of people see him as confirmed townie.

Unvote, Vote: Surye

Now we've got ourselves some leverage...

[somestrangeflea]

EDWOP: ...as a confirmed townie and thus unlikely to get lynched.

[somestrangeflea]

Why are you voting the person who has no part in refusing to claim SSF?

Because he has both the information that we want and a reasonable possibility of being lynched.

Gimbo lacks the latter, so pressure votes won't work.

I realise that Surye hasn't actually posted since this whole scandal began, but it's always nice to have some pressure!

[somestrangeflea]

your constant need to EBWOP to brush up your words seems like a scum who doesn't want to say anything that sounds even remotely out of line.

Changing incorrect things to correct things =/= changing scummy things to townie things.

Also, the fact that I've done it... ooh, let me check... twice is not "a constant need".

Because he has both the information that we want and a reasonable possibility of being lynched.

Gimbo lacks the latter, so pressure votes won't work.

I realise that Surye hasn't actually posted since this whole scandal began, but it's always nice to have some pressure!

So, your point is you think Gimbo is town, but he is hiding info that would aid the town, so you want to pressure someone else in order to get him to reveal the info? This is 100% confusing.

No, I don't think he's especially likely to be town, but I realise that a significant proportion of the town does. Gimbo knows this, and thus realises that the probability of any "pressure-for-information" votes actually being taken to lynch if no information is given is slim-to-none.

Considering that Gimbo is unlikely to yield the information we want, is it not sensible to attempt to get it from other sources?

So, your point is you think Gimbo is town, but he is hiding info that would aid the town, so you want to pressure someone else in order to get

him

to reveal the info?

Yes if bold is referring to Surye, no if Gimbo.

Abridged for people on the go.

@Riceball: I saw your post hitting preview, but thought the above pretty much summed up my opinion on the subject.
Also:

I have no real proof that Gimbo is a confirmed townie yet either, he just has a pro-town item.

I love you.

[somestrangeflea]

if Gimbo claims his item is neutral why would it make him town, if it is so neutral couldn't any group start with it?

I agree with you completely.

For reasons which are beyond me, a bunch of people assumed that, because Gimbo had an item which could bring people back to life, he had to be pro-town.

When it became apparent that the item had properties which would make it useful for a scum, no-one found the time to change their opinions...

...and I wept.

[somestrangeflea]

SSF - > obvious scum ability-fishing even after I stated revealing isn't gonna help town.

Fishing? I'm outright asking, nay, demanding the information.
"It's called fishing because it requires subtlety. When you grab a shotgun and start firing into the water, thats not fishing."
-IH

I'm particularly concerned about

if I do [reveal], primarily i will be fucked by it

These are the words of a man who's main interest is self-preservation rather than helping the team.

For instance, the reviver/revived player gains a one-shot/permanent ability, which, if revealed, would get the reviver/revived NKed. This is not very probable, but I'm sure this isn't the only scenario where revealing is bad for town.

There is not much reason for the reviver to gain an ability after using an item on another player, and the revived is an NK target anyway on account of his confirmed-townie-ness. As I went on to mention:

If the special property is pro-town, it doesn't matter, because he's probably dead anyway.

I commend you for giving it a shot, but I stand by my argument that it is difficult to think of a reasonable property which would be anti-town to reveal.

SSF, recall that I willingly gave the itme to Surye and he told town that it has a weird property that might be useful to scum and I acknowledged it.

Null-tell. That wasn't pro-town, it was sensible. Outright rejection of the trade would've gathered suspicion.

And why did we have to hear that news from Surye anyway? Why didn't you tell us about that upfront?

Now you are saying that I am not town, even though I've already confirmed that I'm town

Circular argument. You're using "I've confirmed that I'm town" as reasoning against my argument "You aren't confirmed town".

armlx said, having a scum with a revival item tips the balance way too much for ti to even be possible.

I don't play "Outguess the Mod".

if I do, it would probably hurt town, and I'll said 'i told you guys so' and then we lynch you, SSF, how's that plan?

Who's "we"? You're going to need about 11 more people to agree with "let's lynch Flea if he does the oh-so-scummy thing of... BEING WRONG", and even then, I don't have control over those 11 people, so whether I agree with the plan is irrelevant.

Oh, and what armlx said.

[somestrangeflea]

You're going to need about 11 more people to agree with "let's lynch Flea if he does the oh-so-scummy thing of

attempting to spread fear and distrust about a pretty much confirmed townie and create baseless wagons on less confirmed townies based on said statements

Fixed.

Conversation was about this:

if I do, it would probably hurt town, and I'll said 'i told you guys so' and then we lynch you, SSF, how's that plan?

As such, any further reasons for lynching me were pretty much irrelevant to the discussion.
Still...

attempting to spread fear and distrust about a pretty much confirmed townie

Hang on. You actually believe that I don't really believe anything that I've said about Gimbo's alignment over the last 30 pages? That's a pretty strong accusation, and so far, the only basis for it is "not following the crowd".

creating baseless wagons on less confirmed townies based on said statements

I'm afraid that's completely incorrect. Here's why:
1. "

baseless

wagons...

based

on said statements" is a contradiction in itself.
2. "Creating a wagon" is a way to say "casting the first vote on someone" whilst attempting to make it sound scummier than it is.
3. My vote for Surye was to obtain the information Gimbo was withholding. I've told you this multiple times already. It was not "based on said statements" made to "spread fear and distrust about a pretty much confirmed townie".
4. "less confirmed townies" implies that Surye is, in some shape or form, partially confirmed, which is not true.

So you've:
Attempted to completely derail a conversation.
Attempted to dismiss a large amount of consistent gameplay as scummy using one sentence.
Contradicted yourself.
Radicalised a common action.
Ignored the reasoning given for an action then replaced it.
Misrepresented the standing of another player.

Amazingly, in the process of accusing me, you actually did three times as many scummy things as you accused me of.

Generally speaking, quoting and editing people's posts with "Fixed" at the end of it does not a good argument make.

You're spared a vote because I want to hear a defence before I decide whether to or not. That, and I'm almost certain I'll get cries of

OMGUS!

Vote: Flea

if I vote immediately.

Hmm, I shouldn't have said that out loud, should I?

[somestrangeflea]

Can we have confirmation that pop is actually alive?

Mod hasn't checked in since the start of the day, so the revivification hasn't gone through yet.

[somestrangeflea]

I thought items had to be used via PM.

What I think Gimbo's just done is given a 1-Up Mushroom away...

[somestrangeflea]

You can buy items during the night, and use them during the night. This is done by sending me a PM at night in which you say which item you want to buy.

Not sure if this differs from day-items.

[somestrangeflea]

SSF, think Gimbo is town yet? Or still gonna hound a double voting reviver?

You seem to believe I think he's scum.

[somestrangeflea]

You seem to believe I think he's scum.

Thats how I'm reading your doubt that he is anything but confirmed town. If I am mistaken, please show me examples of your saying he isn't scum at all and I will rescind my accusation, as that is the main basis of it.

I'm not saying he's scum.

I'm saying he's not definitely-100%-absolutely-confirmed town.

And here is everywhere I've said it.

Yea! I'm

confirmed

townie

No, you're not.

Whilst I don't agree with the

confirmed

-Gimbo argument, I can see that a large number of other players would.

Do you think Gimbo

could be scum

now that we know that the 1UP mushroom also has a scum ability?

My opinion of this has already been made quite clear.

We don't have any

confirmable townies

. We have some semi-confirmable roles. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. A bunch of people (including you, I think) thought the same thing about Gimbo and his role.

Why should people who have had aspects of their role confirmed be

seen as more likely to be town

than those who have not?

Bolded for emphasis.

[somestrangeflea]

I see no reason Gimbo should be anything BUT confirmed townie at this point

I do. Namely "not confirmed townie".

your pressing the issue is really scummy.

Only because you say so.

No, I'm referring to how you tried to push the rest of the town into pressuring Surye with you.

Which is scummy because..? Kinda hard to get a wagon on your own...

The correct procedure is just ask, not put votes down.

"Just asking" wasn't going anywhere.

He is less confirmed then Gimbo by being completely unconfirmed.

You don't say "less full" for a glass that's completely empty...

You seem awfully concerned with not being lynched.

That's because being lynched is a bad thing.

1st point: No, I didn't. I've said Gimbo should reveal, and said that your way of trying to go about it is scummy.

Because..?

2nd: Except I'm right.

Because you say so.

3rd: See above

See above.

What common action? Trying to start an indirect wagon on a confirmed townie?

You said "creating a wagon". Not the same as "trying to start in indirect wagon on a confirmed townie", which isn't even right as it implies that I was trying to get Gimbo lynched...

I have a feeling your stated and actual reasons differ, hence my post. Replacing stated reasons with intended reasons is a part of making cases, amirite?

Not when your only evidence is "because I say so".

I misrepresented nothing.

Well I'm convinced.

Explain to me from a mod-balance perspective how Gimbo can be scum.

I don't play "Outguess the Mod".

I don't play with the assumption that the game will have an equal (or near-equal) chance for each faction to win. I don't play with the assumption that setups will be finely tuned to be as unswingy as possible. Hell, I don't play with the assumption that Day 1 isn't LyLo.

The only assumptions I make about

any

setup are these:
1. There is at least 1 scum in it.
2. The town is bigger than in the largest scumgroup.
3. The mod won't lie.

How do you counterbalance a scum with an item which revives someone and takes their vote?
Give a townie an item which revives someone and takes their vote. Well that was easy.

There are probably tens (maybe hundreds) of other ways, but, since I'm a player, it's not my job to work any of them out.

[somestrangeflea]

we can make a feather chain

OOH! AND THEN WE CAN BRAID EACH OTHER'S HAIR AND WATCH

DANGEROUS LIASONS

!

I'm not proud of that...

[somestrangeflea]

Give one coin to populartajo

BANDWAGON.

Also,

Unvote

. I for got. Soz Surye. D=

[somestrangeflea]

I'm waiting for something other than the populartajo coin-giving to spur. That seems to be hogging the spotlight...

This is true, and I think this and the prior drama regarding Gimbo's item are the reasons why we haven't been doing an awful lot of scumhunting today. This needs to be changed.

I think the recent stall in gameplay is directly influenced by Flameaxe not yet having mod powers, and with the popular-coin-situation pretty much resolved, we should return to our regular scheduled programming shortly...

[somestrangeflea]

Yoshi - I get no items, no coins, and no vote (ever, and no you can't give them to me, they become forfeit when anything is in my possession). At night I can attempt to eat a scum. If I hit a scum, they don't get a vote the next day. I am town.

As much as I find the "You're not really Yoshi, you're a Bob-omb" argument from skitzer to be reaching, I would like to know the flavor behind your "abilities".

[somestrangeflea]

I think someone else said this but I'll ask just to be sure.

RBT, are you a piranha plant?

Your only post in five days serves to:
A. Quickly hop onto a wagon gathering speed.
B. Question someone about a claim using a completely baseless example of what I said RBT's claim could be a cover for.

To me, this looks like opportunistic wagonning, and a piss-poor attempt to cover it up with "scumhunting".

Unvote, Vote: goborage

WRT Cream, I didn't really agree with the wagon on him yesterday and the connections don't really seem

that

strong. I'm torn between:

• Cream is the only person who Rogue outright said he did not like the lynch of. Rogue was scum, thus, he was staying off a buddy's wagon.
• Rogue had a knack for jumping on wagons, but stayed off Cream's. He knew Cream was a Townie and stayed off the wagon so that, if he got lynched, he could use that as evidence of his own townie-ness.

Weighing everything up, I think the scum preservation instinct is stronger than planning ahead...

Would-be-Vote: Cream

I'm not sure where the votecount stands, but as I understand, we're waiting for RBT to vote..? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[somestrangeflea]

UNVOTE; VOTE:Alabaska J

Have at thee scum!

..?

What the hell just happened?

Also, why haven't you claimed last your action last night yet?

[somestrangeflea]

Just to explain there was something Cream said that a few of us reconized that only those who are vanilla townie (as iamausername stated) would know that scum would not know.

Of course! I did not think of that!

Good job someone did then!

Unvote, Vote: iamausername

[somestrangeflea]

Is Gimbo gonna be replaced because of his indefinite suspension?

O_O

Don't dangle the dream and then take it away! You can't do that to me!

[somestrangeflea]

Theres a newbie called Obmig who wants to play if you are having trouble finding a replacement.

<3

Oh, and

Unvote

.

ITP Flea returns from a full reread and nothing to show for it. I'm stumped.

Vote: Mr. Incrediball

Deadline is still deadline though.

[somestrangeflea]

DBE and SSF, why are you voting for this guy?=

Deadline.

[somestrangeflea]

I also think we might want to massclaim today

Why?

[somestrangeflea]

I also think we might want to massclaim today

Why?

[somestrangeflea]

I also think we might want to massclaim today

Why?

We need to find Bowser or we lose.

And massclaim will help... how?

[somestrangeflea]

I also think we might want to massclaim today

Why?

We need to find Bowser or we lose.

And massclaim will help... how?

How will it hurt?

Peach's identity will be exposed to the scum who don't already know it. Assuming we then do manage to keep the game afloat, we will be stuck in the same position we are now

every day

.

How will it help?

(We're playing argument tennis here... It's fun.)

[somestrangeflea]

I also think we might want to massclaim today

Why?

We need to find Bowser or we lose.

And massclaim will help... how?

How will it hurt?

Peach's identity will be exposed to the scum who don't already know it. Assuming we then do manage to keep the game afloat, we will be stuck in the same position we are now

every day

.

How will it help?

(We're playing argument tennis here... It's fun.)

We will be less likely to lose now.

How!?

[somestrangeflea]

We can reason out the scum.

I severely doubt we can pick

one

correct fakeclaim out of twenty-one claims.

Why are you against a massclaim?

Because I can see

no

benefit to the town for doing it.

You don't think scum can talk at night? Honestly?

I figured we'd already discovered there were at least

two

different factions who want the Princess. I'm going to take a huge leap of faith here and assume that they can't talk to each other...

[somestrangeflea]

The Princess has been captured!

I am Princess Daisy.

Mod doesn't specify

which

Princess...

I don't buy it.

We can test it. We get the ten people who we know the vote power of (Cream, killa seven, armlx, goborage, Wintermute, andersonw, Surye, skitzer, mr. incrediball, ashmite84) to run FL up to -1 and have FL drop the hammer on himself. If he's telling the truth, no lynch happens. If he's not telling the truth, then he's likely to be Bowser anyway...

[somestrangeflea]

Um, you can scratch armlx from that list, SSF. I don't think he's gonna vote FL anytime soon.

Oh yeah. That's what happens when you copypaste...
Well that leaves us with only nine, so for the plan to work, we need someone not on the list to claim singlevoter...

[somestrangeflea]

FL is tellin the truth.
peach isnt captured stop claiming please.

Why are you so sure, k7?

[somestrangeflea]

how do you know it was you that was kidnapped?

I'd just like to point out that I'm lolling at the idea of the above sentence appearing in a real-life situation...

HELP! I'VE BEEN KIDNAPPED!
Well, how do you

know

you've been kidnapped..?
I... well... uhm...
*BEEEEEEEP*

[somestrangeflea]

Im toadsworth im peaches personal assistant, ive stood by her all of her life,
so no disguise can fool me. i cant comunicate with peach and she doesnt know who i am. i will be notified if shes kidnapped and who did it.
last night i was notified that she wasnt kidnapped see my other post.

Actually why would you be notified if you said that you can only be notified if she IS kidnapped?

The Princess being kidnapped (or not) is the subject of each notification, rather than the trigger which causes it.

I read it the wrong way at first glance too, but K7's claim makes sense.

Mod edit
Visible Votecount:
FaerieLord (1): Korts
ashmite84 (1): TheSweatpantsNinja

Not voting (19): iamausername, skitzer, Wintermute, forbiddanlight, somestrangeflea, Surye, killa seven, Gremwell, Alabaska J, farside22, ting =), DarlaBlueEyes, FaerieLord, Lord Gurgi, Cream147, Riceballtail, goborage, populartajo, ashmite84

[somestrangeflea]

C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER

[somestrangeflea]

Give 2 coins to populartajo

[somestrangeflea]

Also

I would give you my coins, pop, except

I don't have none.

This means you do have some.

FLEA - EXPLOITING DOUBLE NEGATIVES SINCE NOW

[somestrangeflea]

Apologies for the recent inactivity. Internet was down since Tuesday.

And it's obvious that ashmite wasn't trying to PM-quote, fake or otherwise, because it's written in the

first person

.

[somestrangeflea]

Why would he reveal that he had a poisonous mushroom if he wasn't town? It doesn't sound very good for him after all.

I'm tempted to brand this WIFOM...

[somestrangeflea]

Give one coin to killa seven

. This actually will work, even though I didn't have any before, because I somehow received one last night.

How did this happen?

FoS: Iamusername.

Were you the one that kidnapped Daisy and got her coins?

23) When someone is

killed

at night, the person who killed him gets the coins.

Killed != Kidnapped.

[somestrangeflea]

If he actually is Toadsworth, starring him tonight won't hurt.

Unfortunately, him being NK'd

will

hurt. Quite a lot. And don't you think he might be a bit of a scum magnet?

Uhm, if he's telling the truth, he won't die.

[somestrangeflea]

Uhm, if he's telling the truth, he won't die.

The star won't. But scum could. And, you would think, should.

Guh. I misread your post.

[somestrangeflea]

The trouble with Korts' thought process is this:

Well, it's not like I'm gonna be able to mount any serious defense against that. To explain my thought process more, this is why I think Bowser's got a fix NK. Every night so far, there has been a single NK, no more, no less, and even though the coins were pooled into pop's hands before N2, there still was a NK then, too.

Also, after the D1 lynch of the DK Crew's boss, though there are obviously at least two scum factions, there was only one NK, which lead me to believe that the bosses have a fix NK.

Wario's presence as anti-town yet no NK confuses me, though.

Maybe he was an SK, but had to buy his kills?

There is no evidence to support this. The fact that DK was lynched Day 1 makes it

impossible

to prove if his death stopped his faction making a kill. There's no "before/after" scenario.

You've just disproven your own theory.

Maybe. Do you have anything that lends support to this?

[somestrangeflea]

Wintermute was in this game?

Replaced Phoebus but didn't post.

[somestrangeflea]

Vote me, then.

I am. Not sure why more aren't.

I'm waiting for a response from Korts before I decide what's what.

[somestrangeflea]

Goborage during D1 claimed to have a poison mushroom so earlier today people were like "so, why would town have a poison mushroom"...I think we eventually decided

items aren't determiners of alignment

Then why is Gimbo (now Gurgi) out of the firing line?

FLEA - BEATING A DEAD HORSE SINCE NOW

The trouble with Korts' thought process is this:

Well, it's not like I'm gonna be able to mount any serious defense against that. To explain my thought process more, this is why I think Bowser's got a fix NK. Every night so far, there has been a single NK, no more, no less, and even though the coins were pooled into pop's hands before N2, there still was a NK then, too.

Also, after the D1 lynch of the DK Crew's boss, though there are obviously at least two scum factions, there was only one NK, which lead me to believe that the bosses have a fix NK.

Wario's presence as anti-town yet no NK confuses me, though.

Maybe he was an SK, but had to buy his kills?

There is no evidence to support this. The fact that DK was lynched Day 1 makes it

impossible

to prove if his death stopped his faction making a kill. There's no "before/after" scenario.

You've just disproven your own theory.

Maybe. Do you have anything that lends support to this?

True. There is no evidence, however, to refute this.

Yes, and that is why I add the last sentence.

Nothing supports this other than the fact that my theory wouldn't work properly otherwise.

Argument from Ignorance fallacy. You're pushing that something is true almost solely because it hasn't been proven false. If what you say is valid then so is the exact opposite:
"DK's death is

not

the reason that the DK Crew do not make NKs because there is no evidence to refute this."

[color=what does blue and green make?]The fact that your own theory has an exception makes me doubt that you believe it yourself.[/color]

Vote: Korts

[somestrangeflea]

Give Fireflower to Riceballtail
Give Mushroom to Riceballtail
Give Feather to Riceballtail.
Give Star to Riceballtail.
Give five (5) Coins to Populartajo
THEN
Give one (1) Coin to Populartajo

I don't get Korts' claim. Shy Guys are generally enemies, I've never heard of a Shy Guy being a guide, and I don't see how being a Tracker instead of a Cop fits into the flavor of being a guide anyway.

[somestrangeflea]

Give Fireflower to Riceballtail
Give Mushroom to Riceballtail
Give Feather to Riceballtail.
Give Star to Riceballtail.
Give five (5) Coins to Populartajo
THEN
Give one (1) Coin to Populartajo

First five transactions fail, the last transaction is succesful. somestrangeflea loses 1 coin, and populartajo gains 1 coin.

Guh, forgot I already gave two.

Give two coins to populartajo.
THEN
Give one coint to populartajo.

[somestrangeflea]

Wait a second, why did SSF have more coins than she should? Explain! ... I may be missing something but she surely knows.

I gave you two coins earlier today, which, as you can see from my recent failed transactions, I forgot I had done, but I did not imply that I had given you all my coins, because I was unaware at that point that we were giving

all

our coins to you (rather than just a lot of them).

Bear in mind that this had gone completely unnoticed up until now and that, were I scum, I could

very

easily have kept the coins...
...

especially

since deadline is in two days.

On that note, I still feel Korts is a good lynch, and I don't think a better wagon is forthcoming. However, using the information we have, there's only five real votes on the wagon (ie not enough for a deadline lynch). I think we need to get the votes on here in order to prevent a No-Lynch.

[somestrangeflea]

Forbiddin light is town.

Wait hang on.
How come?

Wait... I'm confused. Maybe I missed something, but the real vote count shows populartajo with a real vote? I thought he didn't have one, per Gimbo's 1up?

This is important and needs to be resolved ASAP because it brings a confirmed into question.

[somestrangeflea]

Good to join the pseudoconfirmed

That reminds me...

List of possible confirmed

Cream
Ashmite
Farside
Natirasha
Lord Guri
Gremweel
TSPN

I may be missing something but why is Gremwell on this list?

As for the lynch on Korts, I may or may not have information on that, and it would require me to claim. I want the town's decision on that.

That depends entirely on how useful the information actually is. Obviously, there's no way for the town to decide that without telling us, but if you think the information (or lack thereof) is particularly useful to the town, then please claim.

Also note:

Give one coin to populartajo

This will fail.
Ideally we should all do this before rather after today's lynch. It's probably safest if you do it now.

NOW

[somestrangeflea]

Good to join the pseudoconfirmed

That reminds me...

List of possible confirmed

Cream
Ashmite
Farside
Natirasha
Lord Guri
Gremweel
TSPN

I may be missing something but why is Gremwell on this list?

I'm semi confirmed from way back. I feathered tspn N1 and was a candidate for being stared to confirm the 2 of us, but pop killed armlx instead.

Ah yes, that. I was somewhat confused because everyone on that list barring you and TSPN had

roleclaimed

.

Forbiddin light is town.

Wait hang on.
How come?

Wait... I'm confused. Maybe I missed something, but the real vote count shows populartajo with a real vote? I thought he didn't have one, per Gimbo's 1up?

This is important and needs to be resolved ASAP because it brings a confirmed into question.

I saw the item, I think this may be a mod slip, but we'll see.

Bear in mind that if the number beside "Not Voting" in the Real Votecount represents votes rather than players then Lord Gurgi has also snapped back to being a single voter.

[somestrangeflea]

The list of non-peaches is growing too, which is not nice.

As of FL's claim, "the list of people the scum know aren't Peach" is a majority of the currently alive players.

---

Earlier today, I went back and did some (fairly quick) research on who'd claimed what, mainly because I was beginning to lose track of what the hell was going on, and noticed that the farside/Natirasha/ashmite/cream debate over the Toad role PM (hereby referred to as "The Fartirashmeam Debate") got pretty much railroaded once the end-of-day item-and-coin-pass-fest happened.

---

DarlaBlueEyes loses her mushroom, but... Riceballtail does not receive it.

Here's a question which, in retrospect, I'm confused no-one asked:
Where does that stuff go then?
From the looks of things, everyone just assumed "Nowhere! It disappears into thin air and will never be seen again". That's what I thought. But then some gears clicked and some dots connected.

And then I remembered that Natirasha just said this:

I also have a mushroom for some reason.

Well hang on just a minute! Where'd you get that from? You gave all your items away in the end-of-day item-and-coin-pass-fest, did you not?

Give Mushroom to RiceBallTail.
Give Fireflower to RiceBallTail.
Give Feather to RiceBallTail.
Give Star to RiceBallTail.
Give One (1) Coin to PopularTajo

Well, you tried...

Fail.

But all that proves is that you didn't have an item Day 3 and now you do! That doesn't prove that you're lying or anything like that!
But this post does:

No, let me clear this up.

I have a mushroom

, and my PM had a little aside about how I can protect myself with the mushroom.

Uh huh. So you have a Mushroom, but the transaction fails anyway?

So to sum up, in chronological order:
Natirasha claims to have a Mushroom.
Natirasha attempts to give away the Mushroom.
Transaction fails, proving he didn't have a Mushroom.
DBE gives a Mushroom to RBT on Day 3.
Natirasha claims to have a Mushroom Day 4.

Now, those last two points

may

be coincidence, but I certainly think the first three warrant a

Vote: Natirasha

. However, I am somewhat inebriated, so I will need someone (or 12 hours) to confirm whether I'm talking bullshit or not.

[somestrangeflea]

Interestengly enough, a Mario claim can make Alabaska's lynch more possible. Why would there be two Marios? If no one claims Mario then I think its pretty possible that Alabaska is indeed Dr. Mario.

I think a simple mass-"are-you-Mario?"-claim from anyone who hasn't roleclaimed yet (skitzer, Surye, Gremwell, ting, DBE, goborage and me) is the way forward. Thoughts?

[somestrangeflea]

Um...

Mod, is there a limit to the amount of coins someone can carry?

The answer was "Not telling" when goborage asked, why would it change!?

BTW

Unvote

because of the whole "mod-error making my case worthless" thing.

I find it terrrrrribly unlikely that Mario and Dr. Mario are both in the game, because I don't think Mario and Dr. Mario are different characters (in the same way that I wouldn't expect there to be a "Red Yoshi", "Blue Yoshi", etc.)
Alabaska's claim did not include the possibility of being a double-voter, which I think was an oversight on the part of his fakeclaim.
Gremwell's claim didn't either, but because of recent events I think that was an underlying assumption, although, to be fair, Gremwell's claim amounts to no more than a nameclaim.

I will restrain myself from voting Alabaska until the coin issue is resolved.

[somestrangeflea]

*sigh*
Once again I've fallen victim to the terrible plague of "examples that don't match up to what I'm actually trying to say".

My point was that I don't think it's likely that Dr. Mario and Mario are in this game because they aren't distinctly different people. Dr. Mario is simply Mario acting as a Doctor. A is just B with a white coat.

Let's go for something which represents what I'm trying to say a bit more...

I find it terrrrrribly unlikely that Mario and Dr. Mario are both in the game, because I don't think Mario and Dr. Mario are different characters (in the same way that I wouldn't expect there to be

a "Red Yoshi", "Blue Yoshi", etc.

"Bowser"

and

"King Koopa"

)

... where "King Koopa" basically amounts to "Bowser with a crown."

[somestrangeflea]

@rbt.
Are you going to give a reason at all?

He ate you last night. Apparently he got a result that implies you don't have a vote today. Good enough for me.

unvote, Vote: Ting

. Though, I would like confirmation from RBT that's what happened. You are at 2 real votes if RBT really does double mine.

I propose something of a variation on the plan I suggested for FaerieLord:

We can test it. We get the ten people who we know the vote power of (Cream, killa seven, armlx, goborage, Wintermute, andersonw, Surye, skitzer, mr. incrediball, ashmite84) to run FL up to -1 and have FL drop the hammer on himself. If he's telling the truth, no lynch happens. If he's not telling the truth, then he's likely to be Bowser anyway...

Now obviously, it's slightly different because it's one person claiming that

another

person is voteless. However, it's clear that

at least one

of RBT/ting is lying (and, therefore, that at least one of them is scum). So what do we do? We run RBT up to -1 using votes that we know the power of and have ting hammer. If RBT is

lying

, he's dead. If RBT is telling the truth, ting is

scum

. Nothing will happen when he tries to hammer, so we lynch him instead.

Are there any glaring faults in this plan which I'm missing?

Note the differentiation between the bolded "lying" and "scum". This is to highlight that RBT being scum and ting being scum are

not

mutually exclusive.

[somestrangeflea]

Also, no to plan on me hammering RBT. It's not a scenario where one of us is bound to be scum. We could both be town, and in that scenario - I still have my vote and I'd hammer a role that's essentially a delayed cop. I'm not going to do that.

FWIW, I thought that RBT was claiming that he had received a PM saying you'd lost your vote, meaning that at least one of you was scum.

I assume we've stopped trying to give our coins to pop since it seems he can't hold anymore, so where are with regards to the "Things We Must Do Before We Lynch™"?

Mod edit
Visible Votecount:
Alabaska J (5): farside22, Lord Gurgi, Natirasha, DarlaBlueEyes, forbiddanlight
Natirasha (2): ting =), Alabaska J
ting =) (1): Riceballtail

Not voting (9): skitzer, Surye, killa seven, Gremwell, Cream147, ashmite84, goborage, populartajo, somestrangeflea

With 17 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch.

[somestrangeflea]

Give 2 coins to Populartajo

Give 1 coin to Populartajo

Transaction succesful. Natirasha loses 2 coins and populartajo gains 1 coin. Second transaction failed.

[somestrangeflea]

Give 2 coins to Populartajo
Give 1 coin to Populartajo

The second trasaction will fail. I also have a mushroom for some reason. Anyways, Suyre's looking quite scummy right now.

Give one mushroom to Killa seven

Wky K7 is asking for a mushroom?

Because Natirasha doesn't have a mushroom. He gave it to RBT on Day 3, but this transaction was incorrectly noted as "failed" by the mod. The error as since been rectified.

[somestrangeflea]

If you're confirmed and Ive forgotten about you, tell me.

Why are those two confirmed anyway? Did you feather them yourself?

Why the hell is Cream getting coins?

[somestrangeflea]

I have 2 votes.

[somestrangeflea]

I don't see why the mod-confirmed toad needs to explain anything.

This is so wrong and fallacious it hurts.

Keff'd.

Town != Infallible.

Surye, you belong to another scum faction, right?

Where'd this come from?

[somestrangeflea]

If we dont believe their claims, we fireflower tonight*:
Mnowax (by )
Ting (by )
Surye (by )
Nat (by Cream)

Do you ALL agree?

When did Alabaska slip out of the firing line? Or have you just assumed he's the lynch?

[somestrangeflea]

So the deal is we give fireflowers to confirmed to kill non confirmed. Agree?

I disagree. We're making an already small list of people who might be Peach

even smaller

.

I think we should lynch people who we suspect of fakeclaiming

before

going on a Fireflower clusterfuck on people who haven't claimed yet, so that we can get rid of people who we suspect

before

we're under the pressure of the kidnap.

But then again, the more nights we wait, the more coins pop has to spend keeping himself alive, which means we can't actually buy as many Fireflowers...

Then again, does pop actually

need

to keep himself alive? We know coins go to whoever kills, so if he dies, the killer is obviously the person with ten gazillion coins (unless it's RBT, in which case we're fucked).

I'll stop second guessing myself. We don't need Fireflowerfest

yet

!

[somestrangeflea]

So the deal is we give fireflowers to confirmed to kill non confirmed. Agree?

I disagree. We're making an already small list of people who might be Peach

even smaller

.

I think we should lynch people who we suspect of fakeclaiming

before

going on a Fireflower clusterfuck on people who haven't claimed yet, so that we can get rid of people who we suspect

before

we're under the pressure of the kidnap.

But then again, the more nights we wait, the more coins pop has to spend keeping himself alive, which means we can't actually buy as many Fireflowers...

Then again, does pop actually

need

to keep himself alive? We know coins go to whoever kills, so if he dies, the killer is obviously the person with ten gazillion coins (unless it's RBT, in which case we're fucked).

I'll stop second guessing myself. We don't need Fireflowerfest

yet

!

Well to be fair, the people who we seem to be fireflowering are people who have fallen under suspicion.

From what I gathered, we're having confirmed townies (which seems to translate into "anyone who has claimed and is no longer (or hasn't really been) under the spotlight") fireflower unconfirmed townies (or "people who haven't claimed (most likely because they have never really been under the spotlight) or people whose claims are questionable").
The main problem I have with this (aside from the exposing Peach thing) is that people are in the firing solely because haven't been suspected widely enough to be forced to claim. I stand firmly against the idea of killing off people who, from the circumstances, haven't

really

been anti-town.

An aspect of Alabaska's claim is testable. We just have him give us all his stuff, then give him two coins and have him give us a mushroom in the morning. Simple.

[somestrangeflea]

fine.

I am a toad with a poisionous mushroom. i have no coins.

What does your poisonous mushroom do?

ooohoooh! I know I know I know!

[somestrangeflea]

From what I gather, Alabaska is now at real-1, so let's decide what we're doing tonight, and get it sorted, sharpish.

Also, Ting still needs to vote No-Lynch.

[somestrangeflea]

I'm alright with the skitzer flowering, particularly regarding the baseless fakeclaim accusations regarding RBT.

[somestrangeflea]

EDWOP: Regarding = because of

[somestrangeflea]

1. We mass fireflower unconfirmeds.

Agree/

Disagree (Delete where appropriate)

2. If we do decide to mass fireflower non-confirmeds, there should be a massclaim.
Agree

/Disagree

(Delete where appropriate)

[somestrangeflea]

@Ala do you have a mushroom? Please give me all your coins and keep the ones you need for a mushroom, in case you dont have one.

Meh.

Would it not be more reliable for Alabaska to give you as many coins as he can (and prove he can't give any more) and try to give all the items away, then for you to give him the two coins he needs to buy the Mushroom?

[somestrangeflea]

The problem with not starring Alabaska tonight is that we have to waste a lynch on him tomorrow...I really really really do not think for one second that he's town.

Cream do you realize the number of lynches doesnt matter anymore, right?

The fuck? Have you completely forgotten that the scum have a chance to kidnap Peach every night? The number of lynches most certainly does matter.

[somestrangeflea]

Let's take a look at the claim and see the things which are important.

I am Dr. Mario. Each night I can make some megavitamins and "prescribe" them to a player. These megavitamins are made with a special ingredient so as to protect a player from

fireflowers

instead of viruses. This special ingredient? Mushrooms. I have the option each night to buy a mushroom from the mod for only

two coins

and make it into a special megavitamin. This megavitamin is sent to the person I prescribed it to (I just send the name in the pm requesting to buy a mushroom to make things easier, although

flavor-wise I suppose I'd actually have to receive the mushroom first

but whatever), and they are safe for the night.

I cannot prescribe a megavitamin to myself, nor can I use a mushroom at night

.

The megavitamins only protect the player they are used on from Fireflowers.

Mushrooms only cost 2 coins for Alabaska.

Alabaska is not forced to make a megavitamin after buying a Mushroom.

Alabaska cannot protect himself using megavitamins or Mushrooms.

Is there anything else important I'm missing?

[somestrangeflea]

on the whole topic of poisonous shrooms, K7 shouldn't use the shroom he was given, he should buy his own.

Oh hell, awesome catch. Just cause goborage/mnowax admitted their's does NOT mean that others can't have them. Good call.

WHAT?! When will I at last have the trust I deserve!

Can we honestly trust ANYONE in this game? Trusting me means you have to trust K7. Trusting Gremwell means you have to trust RBT. Trusting Pop Taj means you have to trust Surye and LG that the mushroom didn't flip alignment...seriously, it's all a web, and you really aren't in it unless I overlooked something.

Hey, did you read the part where I was revived as a Toad?

Yeah, but the mod also said you were revived on day 1 so eh.

[somestrangeflea]

Requesting permission to hammer.

==[]?

[somestrangeflea]

I meant more in the sense of:
"Is everyone finished trading/donating/whatever?"

[somestrangeflea]

OH YES!

[somestrangeflea]

I was anxious when I claimed doublevoter, as I figured I may have just painted a bullseye on my back. I was contemplating fakeclaiming, but I couldn't think of a role which could:
* Doublevote.
* Not be lynched.
* Not be killed.
* Not buy mushrooms or fireflowers.
* Buy Stars and Feathers for 3 coins more than advertised.
* Get all the coins from the lynches.

[somestrangeflea]

Dear scum,
Why me?

Love, Flea.
xoxo

[somestrangeflea]

Also I have fakeclaims, but the mod has warned me that maybe we should just look like toads. The fakeclaims are:

Dr. Mario

, Shy Guy, Paper Mario, Rosalina, Baby Luigi, and Bob-omb.

Oh the irony.