Mushroom Kingdom Mafia (Game over!)

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

confirm

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Vote gimbo.

Too easy?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Why, it is a game! Thank you for pointing that out for me, I. . . would not have realized this without your valuable assistance.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

TSN, you are basically attacking a Rosso-esque player for behaving in that manner. Think about it.

Well, my vote was half tongue in cheek. But then gimbo responded, and sometimes I can't help but feed trolls.

Gimbo, please don't fuck my sarcasm. I need that to do my laundry.

Mod edit:
Visible votecount:
Alabaska J (2): populartajo, iamausername
armlx (2): farside22, killa seven
Gimbo (2): TheSweatpantsNinja, Alabaska J
Surye (1): Celebloki
populartajo (1): Rogue Shenanigans
Mr. Incrediball (1): Riceballtail
farside22 (1): armlx

iamausername (1): Gimbo

Xtoxm (1): DragonsofSummer
TheSweatpantsNinja (1): Gimbo

Not voting (12): Xtoxm, Phoebus, sideney, somestrangeflea, Surye, mr. incrediball, MafiaSSK, alvinz95, FaerieLord, Cream147, Pepsidude, Dead Rikimaru

With 24 alive it takes 13 real votes to lynch.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

So, gimbo, pro-town, bowser, nk-immune miller vig, whatever, needs to be removed.

Give one coin to armlx.

I trust that you will do what needs to be done.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

You again. I don't. But if he doesn't use it on gimbo, which is what I want to happen, then I'll go after him tomorrow.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'm assuming that armlx has as many coins to start with as I do.

But while I do think gimbo needs to be vigged, I, while making a sandwich, started thinking that as a town, we could build a lot of cop-doc combinations.

That sort of seems like a good idea to me.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Gimbo wins before all of you do. How embarrassing.

Also, I have a followup, (sorry, I'm sort of thinking out loud):

We should use up all of our coins tonight, because killers gain coins, and we know mafia will be killing.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Oh, damn, you can't use mushrooms on other people. Never mind.

It seemed like a good idea.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I mean, that, as a town, we ought combine our coins in such a manner that we fire off a bunch of powers. Our best options are mass vig or mass investigation, which both have their ups and their downs. On the one hand, a mass vig is slightly more. . . final. On the other hand, at least some of our investigations will almost certainly be fake, which diminishes their value.

As I see it, these are our three (best) options:

1. Mass investigate.

2. Mass vig.

3. Mass

double

vig. The problem with mass vigging is that scum who have coins will protect themselves. But mushrooms only protect against one kill, so if we have all our vigs target two people. . . scum presumably won't be able to defend against that, although it runs into the same "scum will lie" issues that mass investigate does.

All of this, of course, requires a mass coin claim first of all. I've already claimed mine.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

The rules never stated how coins will be given.

Oh, I'm assuming that more coins will be introduced, but we can't really control that.

And, a note to everyone who voted me: What's my gain as scum by doing this? Giving away my coins? Are me and armlx both scum? Am I scum just willy-nilly giving my coins away to pro-town players?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

What makes you think that armlx actually wants to kill Gimbo?

B) you are a good vig target as using a lynch on you is a waste of valuable information gathering.

Please comment on the Socialist Mass Coin Redistribution Plan For Victory.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

We should wait until tomorrow? You mean so your scumbuddies can talk about it a little?

Unvote, vote farside.

Nothing is going to change from today to tomorrow, except we as a town will have less coins in our possession, and scum will have more.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I think we need to be very careful about how much we reveal about the number of coins we all have, because the scum are probably going to be looking to take out the townies with the most coins.

Which is why we should use them all.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'm assuming we can get more than one person investigating. If your assumption about 25 coins is right, we can get five. Five is a lot more than one, and scum can't kill them all.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

As of now mass anything would'nt make sense, because we might be unknowingly pooling our coins into the hand of a scum and he'll be sitting in front of his computer laughing his ass off at our vain attempt.

We aren't going to give them all to one person! Yeah, the odds are, we'll probably give some coins to scum, but we'll give more to town.

Let's keep using farside's 25 coins as true (I'm guessing that's low, but no matter): That's about one a person. That means no one has enough to do anything. If we don't combine, all that's going to happen is scum are going to start killing us off, and then we'll have less coins, and still not enough to do anything with.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Are five crapshoot investigations worse than no investigations?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I agree, I much prefer gimbo mark 2 to gimbo mark 1. I'd no longer want you vigged on principle.

Yes, we'll have to reach consensus on who to give the coins to. I'm confident that we can come up with something.

Farside. . . what "odds?" are you even referring to? Four investigations. One of them is probably the nk, yeah. So that leaves three. We can't completely trust them, but that's still three investigations day 1. I'd be fine using any later coins to investigate our day 1 investigators. That seems like a good idea, or at least preferable to the alternative, which is standing around twiddling our thumbs.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Gimbo wins again with the scum refusing to hand over coins. Unless people want to get lynched for being anti-town, when the town decides its time to move coins, they'd better move coins. That said, the day hasn't even been going for more than 24 hours. People will come back and contribute. We shouldn't be anywhere near lynching yet.

Coin Pooling. Putting all the coins in one basket seems like the optimal way for something disasterous to happen, and pooling them with multiple people seems like the optimal way for scum to just get a bunch of coins.

But coin pooling can directly lead to optimal coin usage, meaning scum get no coins, unless, of course, town members hold out on us. Or are you referring to scum getting some of those coins? They'll have to give some away as well, unless they think they can chance getting away with lying about having coins at all.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Surye, gimbo's claimed a confirmable role, no reason to lynch him. I agree, if he lynch town, he should revive the lynch, because then it doesn't matter if he gets killed or not.

Now, moving on:

A few people have said, "oh, pooling coins is a good idea, just not today." The differences between today and the next day are:

A. Scum will have time to talk and figure out what their coin claims will be.

B. There is going to be more scum relative to town (because of nightkills)

C. Scum, via nightkills, will hold more coins than however many they have today.

Those are all good for the scum and bad for us. Now, if you oppose pooling and using altogether, fine, but if we're going to do it, today is the best time.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

You're missing the point. It's not that black and white, if his "role" is an item, we have other methods to verify, and possibily better utilize. Can't think of this game with regular roles.

Ah, well, that's true, we could have gimbo give his item away. But now that its existence is public, it should still be used tonight if possible (if we lynch town).

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

So we're not going to pool our coins and purchase a couple of investigations? Even if not all of the pooled coins get into town hands, this would still give us a good lead to go off of.

Pepsidude is an upstanding young citizen.

We could, you know, play Mafia. You seem to be focussing on the coins as though they are the sole factor that will make or break the game. They're like powers in any other game: They're useful if we've got them, but we shouldn't be relying on them. Vigs, Cops and Bulletproofs (powers which we can buy) exist in many other games, but they don't serve as a replacement for standard scumhunting.

Thanks for that strawman. Obviously we should also be scumhunting. But we have this coin mechanic, and we ought to use it in the way that most benefits the town.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Yeah, if surye doesn't, we'll kill him, that's pretty simple.

In another news, I don't see nearly enough coin-claiming.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

In other

other

news (meant to post this, forgot):

Farside still looks the scummiest. The "paranoia" about an obviously pro-town plan and the super-scummy suggestion that we should wait a day before starting to pool coins look pretty bad in my eyes.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

TSN, please lay out how this coin claiming is going to be game breaking again, because right now I don't see it in the slightest.

I'm not saying game-breaking. I'm saying that we have these coins, as a town. I don't know how many people can buy items right now, but I'm guessing not that many. If we combine our coins so as to buy and use items immediately, we optimize that coin usage.

Also, as people like incrediball would know had they bothered to read the thread, if we use all our coins, the mafia can't take them by killing, hypothetical coin thieves can't steal coins we don't have, and we, get, say five investigations. Or eight vigs. Seems like a pretty good deal to me.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Um, as you as you have a plan for pooling that doesn't involve people saying, "I have this many coins," you let me know.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Indeed we will, except then we don't have a claims process where we might catch some liars.

And if we give all our coins to one person, they'd just have to redistribute them anyway.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Shrug, centralizing them seems like an unnecessary step, but I'm not opposed to it.

What I would like to see happen is a coin claim, then figuring out how we want to use them (I'm still leaning mass investigate, but mass vigging has the advantage of not having to trust your vigs for them to work).

Then we vote (condorcet, instant runoff, whatever) for who our most trusted cops should be. We could have them investigate blind, which has the downside of potential double investigations, but if scum can roleblock, they won't know who to roleblock. On the other hand, public investigation targets are prey to the WIFOM of "why did scum kill this cop?". Someone suggested we have two cops investigate the same person, which makes our results more certain, but on the other hand, means we get half the results.

Something else I've been kicking around is having our

least

trusted players receive the coins, buy the feathers, and investigate in a circle. As long as we don't have two scum in a row, we'll know which results we can't trust.

Step 3 is getting the coins where they need to go, and lynching someone, I guess. Probably farside, because she's scum.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

The biggest reason I support this is that the usual reason you don't massclaim is so scum don't know who to kill--but the items are all one-shot. There's no harm in claiming items, because once you use them, you're no longer a target. (Unless, of course, you have something that you can only use during the day, and not until day 2, in which case you should probably have kept quiet. )

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Gah, gimbo, I can't help people who don't want to be helped. You don't see the benefit in the town getting a bunch of investigations?

And no, coin-claiming unless followed by

doing

something would be a waste of time.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Well, now that Surye's touched his mushroom (lol), we can be sure that he's not making this up as he goes along.

*Unless, of course, gimbo and surye are both scum who worked out a complicated claiming plan beforehand. . . er, yeah, gimbo's probably town.

Individual based decisions on coin use> majority based coin use that can be influenced and corrupted by scum.

Care to back that up?

Pooling all our coins will render everyone that doesn't have a coin useless, but this way everyone could potentially be a threat.

And the benefit of having "everyone potentially being a threat. . . is?"

It would most likely end up hurting the town to mass vig and pool coins, as those who do not start with self recovery items are now at risk of your plan. It's a great idea... as a scum.

Care to back

that

up? Why would mass vig be more likely to hurt the town? Before you answer, consider this: what would the pro-town course be if we had multiple lynches day 1? Also, comments on mass investigation?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

What is rubbing me wrong with TSN is that he FOS's anyone that disagrees with him. I showed the numbers on why I felt the odds of coin pooling was bad and he still wanted to go along with it. I think he is nuts, but not scummy.

Farside wins the "first blatant misrepresentation post" award. First of all, I haven't FOS'd

anyone

. Like, not a single person. I'm voting for farside. . .and I haven't noted any other suspicions. So farside's pretty much just making stuff up. She's scum, can we kill her?

Also, re: odds, you should know that having confirmed innocents is almost as good as having guilties, so the fact that cops are more likely to hit town than scum isn't really an issue.

Mod edit:
Visible votecount:
TheSweatpantsNinja (3): sideney, iamausername, Riceballtail
Cream147 (3): armlx, Phoebus, Alabaska J
Xtoxm (2): DragonsofSummer, alvinz95
populartajo (1): farside22
Alabaska J (1): populartajo
somestrangeflea (1): Dead Rikimaru
farside22 (1): TheSweatpantsNinja
armlx (1): killa seven
Gimbo (1): somestrangeflea
Rogue Shenanigans (1): Gimbo

Not voting (9): Xtoxm, Surye, MafiaSSK, Pepsidude, Cream147, FaerieLord, Celebloki, mr. incrediball, Rogue Shenanigans

With 24 alive it takes 13 real votes to lynch.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Faerielord is correct. I was ready to policy vig you until you picked it up.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Why would we be lynching cream? It seems like the rationale was "if cream is town, we can revive him." That's no reason to stop hunting scum.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

ALSO, CONFIRMED INNOCENTS ARE REALLY GOOD. Christ.

Farside: I didn't vote for you because you disagreed, I voted for you

because you said we should wait until tomorrow.

Which is a bad idea because the differences between today and tomorrow are:

A. Scum will have time to talk and figure out what their coin claims will be.

B. There is going to be more scum relative to town (because of nightkills)

C. Scum, via nightkills, will hold more coins than however many they have today.

Also, farside, this is what you said:

What is rubbing me wrong with TSN is that he

FOS's anyone

that disagrees with him. I showed the numbers on why I felt the odds of coin pooling was bad and he still wanted to go along with it. I think he is nuts, but not scummy.

See, that's what you said. I was quoting you. And its not true. So either you're being uncommonly inattentive, or you were lying. I'll accept either explanation.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

How about the fact that you didn't like when anyone disagreed with you. Why do I get called out for it? Just because I was the first to say bad idea.

Yeah. . . I didn't vote for you until you said "we should wait until tomorrow." Like I've said, that's what I'm locking in on. I don't

like

being disagreed with, because I think people are either knock-kneed cowards afraid to take chances or scum, but obviously they aren't all scum, and I've no particular interest in pursuing all of them. And haven't.

So how about the fact that you said "FOSs everyone" when I haven't FOS'd anyone?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

What about if we give coins to Gimbo so that he can buy a star? He's not killed tonight and he can confirm a townie or kill a scum.

Won't work, he can only hold one item.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

MafiaSSK's in this game? And he's not contributing?

Unvote, vote mafiassk.

Mod:

Probably all five players in farside's list could use prodding.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

MafiaSSK replaced out as soon as being prodded? Shocking.

Unvote, vote farside.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

MafiaSSK has replaced out within a day of joining or replacing every game I've ever been in with him. Which is now three.

Basically you are saying here anyone who doesn't do the coin exchange is scum. That is like FOS'ing anyone who disagrees wouldn't you say?

If the majority of the town actually agreed to the plan, I would have a problem with holdouts, which is not the same is disagreeing with me over the plan being a good idea. Which is what you said.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

...pushing the issue with no new reasoning, evidence, or prompting, which bug me.

Eh, I'm just trying to keep it on the table. I feel like mostly people have ceased to actually engage me on the issue, just say "not interested" and move on.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

The case against cream is starting to look better, and we're at 23 pages, and no one else seems interested in either pursuing farside or optimizing our coins. . . so

unvote, vote cream

.

Mod edit:
Visible votecount:
Cream147 (5): armlx, Phoebus, Alabaska J, Gimbo, TheSweatpantsNinja
TheSweatpantsNinja (2): Riceballtail, iamausername
Alabaska J (2): populartajo, farside22
somestrangeflea (1): Dead Rikimaru
armlx (1): killa seven
Rogue Shenanigans (1): skitzer

No lynch (1): malthusis

Not voting (11): Surye, andersonw, Pepsidude, Cream147, FaerieLord, Celebloki, mr. incrediball, Rogue Shenanigans, DragonsofSummer, somestrangeflea, sideney

With 24 alive it takes 13 real votes to lynch.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Push, push, push. No one else agrees with you. Live with it.

I. . . did? What would you define changing my vote as? What is your problem?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

No, Gimbo. We've already decided that we're going to end up doing some kind of mass-vig/cop tonight.

Have we? If only that were the case. No lynch is obviously bad, etc. etc.

Alabaska's certainty makes me nervous.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I have faith in the coin-pooling idea but it would require a lot of co-ordination and my support for it depends on the answer to the following:

mod: is it possible to perform an action such as 'give all my coins to player X', or do you have to nominate an amount?

That would make our lives easier, but my read is that that isn't the case.

Farside keeps tripping my scumdar. Why FOS goborage when its clear that sideney is, regardless of

join

date, is fairly fresh?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Why do you keep strawmanning my attacks at you as if I'm somehow attacking you personally?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

All you are saying is you are getting scummy vibes and say "well the farside wagon isn't going anywhere." It's like you have no one else in your radar or scum vibe and then just vote with the flow. You don't think that doesn't look scummy to me? Honestly I think you are just being narrow minded on the subject.

I made a very specific point, which was that I didn't like that you said we should wait until tomorrow. That only makes sense from scum's perspective, which is why I continue to think its scummy. Even my most recent post, I was saying I didn't like a specific post. Nothing about scummy vibes.

If you think my play has been

scummy

, say so. Instead, you're implying I'm voting for you because I've for some reason taken it personally that you disagree with me.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Rogue's wagon hopping is definitely noticeable. I don't really see the scum play in what riceballtail did, so I don't think its much of a tell.

Unvote, vote rogue shenanigans.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I believe they are equally good lynches at the moment because of Rogue's recent Shenanigans (sorry couldn't help it).

Lolz. Also, deadlines in two days, so a claim should probably be coming from RS.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Unvote, vote riceballtail.

RS' claim is both believable, and better yet, confirmable.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

3) we keep the coins and lynch you. if it turns out you were telling the truth, gimbo revives you and we buy you a banana. the town loses nothing.

Can we please stop acting like who we lynch doesn't matter because we might be able to revive them?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Rogue's claim is less believable than rice's, (and he's scummier), so given the choice, I'd prefer rogue as well.

Unvote, vote RS.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

We should revive populartajo.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

How about this: Gimbo and surye have both seen the item, and if they both feel that its better left unrevealed, we drop the issue.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Surye, if you think its in the best interests of the town to tell us, then do so, and we can go from there.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Ah, yes, the patented TSN plan of, "suggest plan no one else agrees with, get investigated, become confirmed, no longer have to explain actions" plan strikes again.

Srsly though, I still think we should pool some coins. I also don't think flea saying gimbo isn't confirmed is suspicious, because he's not confirmed. He's almost definitely town, but not confirmed. I don't get gimbo's reluctance to reveal the ability, but again, he's almost definitely town, so whatever.

I dislike armlx pursuing him for it, as it sort of boils down to semantics.

Unvote, vote armlx.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Gimbo, there's a difference between being investigated and having an item which makes you more likely to be town.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

yes, but the result could be incorrect, nothing about the investigation or Gremwell is confirmed. confirmed = 100%, 99% = unlikely but still unconfirmed

Doesn't that describe you? Isn't that how this whole thing got started?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Only one problem I have with this and no TSN you can't jump up on me for this.

Can so, but I won't. That's a legitimate complaint. If pop is going to use a feather, he can't also hold a mushroom.

Of course, we could give him enough for a star.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

-Star (8 coins): protects yourself against multiple kills for one night, and grants you one nightkill. If you use this nightkill on someone who is on your side, he will not be killed. If you use this nightkill on someone who uses a mushroom or is immune to fireflowers, he will be killed (unless he’s on your side).

No kill means investigation.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I have no coins to give (any longer).

Also, I'll be out of town until the 7th.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

2)how beneficial for town would it be to know the quantity of coins everyone has, creating a way to control the buying of items.
Opinions?

Yes!

Anyway,

Unvote, vote mr. incrediball

Questioning the items sanity just as we're starting to use them well?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

shush don't explain to the scum what some of us figured out.

Unvote, vote iamausername.

I'm glad the cream wagon is dying, I never liked it much.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Farside's on top of things, the iamausername lynch looks pretty good. Tomorrow, we might want to pick someone to explain why, exactly, we were almost sure cream was town as soon as we made the claim. Someone scummy who seemed to get it, preferably.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Translation: I don't get it, but I really want to know, preferably also implicating the guy/gal who explains it. Also, it's very nice that farside exposed a non-toad.

Erm, no. Translation: I'd like someone who might be pretending to get it to have to explain what they're pretending to get.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Well, forcing someone to explain it can only work once.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Unvote, vote alabaska j.

I really don't like his OMGUSsy attitude toward, RBT, or his flippant attitude toward the iamausername wagon. I don't think either of them would be poor lynch choices.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Because I prefer alabaska's scumminess, personally.

Ashmite wouldn't be a bad choice.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

BEING DEFENSIVE IS IN NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM A SCUMTELL.

Chill, I'm not attacking you for being defensive. I don't like your attitude toward the semi-confirmed RBT. Maybe you attacked him first, but the continued pressure feels like you're trying to muddy the water. Also, like I said, you seemed just too sure from the beginning that iamausername was town (which I am by no means convinced of, but at this point I'd rather lynch you.)

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

For everyone who seconded, thirded, fourthed, etc., my issue isn't necessarily that alabaska opposed the lynch, but the way he opposed it. I mean, he didn't even seem to consider it. . . sort of like he already knew he was town.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Ideally.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

The case iamausername has just posted on mr. incrediball deserves some looking into.

Yeah, incrediball hasn't been impressing me much this game. He'd probably be my second choice.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Remind me of your first choice again?

Oh, who was it. . . balaclaska k? Maybe? I dunno, I'm starting to sour on you a little bit anyway.

Visible votecount:
mr. incrediball (4): iamausername, Gremwell, populartajo, Alabaska J
Alabaska J (3): Riceballtail, Thesweatpantsninja, farside22
iamausername (3): somestrangeflea, Cream147, ashmite84
ashmite84 (2): Korts, Lord Gurgi
Cream147 (1): killa seven
somestrangeflea (1): Armlx
killa seven (1): goborage

Not voting (8): Phoebus, sideney, andersonw, DarlaBlueEyes, FaerieLord, Surye, skitzer, mr. incrediball

With 23 alive it takes 12 real votes to lynch.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I think the best idea is to not discuss it any further until someone is at L-2 or so and has to claim. This way, if they're scum, they won't be able to claim Toad without being able to explain it, so they'd either have to make up a different fake claim, or take a guess at what farside saw. If they're really a Toad, they'll be able to explain it pretty easily, and so we'll confirm another townie.

Iamausername, regardless of his scumminess, has the right idea about this situation.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

as for this coin claiming/night killing. the idea is that everyone gives pop ALL their coins, so tonight the only one with coins is pop who is protected by his star that way we can limit the number of antitown night kills to one if were lucky, as well as scum investigations, because as we know 2 scum groups can cause cross killing over night, saving a townie and dropping a scum. also all the coins will be in town control and can be redistributed the next day.

This, while not the optimal plan in the sense that it only pushes off redistribution that much further, is preferable to doing nothing.

Also,

Unvote, vote mr. incrediball.

We're deadlined, alabaska looks pro-town as of late, incrediball is not a bad choice.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Gimbo claims to have a 1-up mushroom.

We lynch. . . (shit, who did we lynch?), um, Rogue Shenanigans, who was a bad guy, but not a bowser guy.

Populartajo is the NK, so Gimbo revives him. Apparently this also means Gimbo has stolen his vote.

Gremwell had a feather and investigated me, semi-confirming me. Discussion over pooling our coins and giving them to PT to confirm gremwell continues.

Incrediball is being run up at the deadline for scumminess, lurkiness, and again, the deadline.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

She's trying to finish what he started by attacking players he defended?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Which means that armlx knew he was going to get nightkilled, and intentionally defended players hoping that they would then be lynched. . . to what end?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Well done then, pt. (I'm all for keeping that guy full of stars, although it may not matter).

If you read my post, you'd see I outlined the strategy as working if he is killed, or the other is killed, at any point. Re-read what I posted please.

I read your post. Might armlx have been defending townies so as to make himself look better? Maybe. Might armlx have been defending townies to make them look worse in the event of their death?

Maybe

, although I'm not sure what his gain would be in this large a game. Might armlx have been defending scumbuddies? Maybe. Hell, in a game with at least three scum factions, he could have been defending scum of a different faction without even knowing it.

The point is, the suspicion of farside based on the idea that she might be somehow "following up" on armlx's strategy, (which

only

makes sense if for some reason armlx was trying to get those two lynched, and again, to what end?), is a serious stretch.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Everyone who is doubting fl's claim:

Why would he say anything as bowser? As it stands, we're essentially shooting in the dark, trying to hit the one guy out of 21 who is bowser. Why would fl speak up and draw attention to himself as bowser? That's seriously implausible.

So, possibilities: FL is telling the truth. In which case, we should halt the claim and lynch. . . well, I'd say ashmite.

FL is scum and lying. In which case we should still not lynch FL, and continue the claim.

I think FL telling the truth is quite a bit more plausible.

Vote ashmite84.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

You don't. The only thing that proves this is the End of Day real vote count and then...we'll I'll be dead if we don't lynch bowser

That has the advantage of being highly confirmable.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I never thought I'd say this:

It is critical for the town that killa seven continue to survive. All our efforts ought go into keeping him alive.

We need to give that guy a star.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Happy birthday FL.

Unvote

Not trusting K7 right now. Are you given a PM every night that Peach is not kidnapped telling you such?

Will claim if Pop wishes.

Why would K7 lie? K7 and faerielord would have to be scum together, have planned an elaborate and counterclaimable plan in the event that they lynched the princess, rather than relying on the

20 in 21

chance that we would simply lynch the wrong person.

I want ashmite dead.

And yes, claim feather/star results, the sooner the better. Its not like you risk being NKed because of it.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I am a Toad (Mushroom Kingdom). I am loyal to Princess Peach, and try to keep her from getting kidnapped.

Now, this presents a bit of a moral dilemma here. . . but tell me other people see why we should be lynching ashmite.

Assuming he doesn't get modkilled.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

And if he isnt a toad and is BSing the PM (its close but not exact) then why would THAT be a MK?

I think I missed something :S

Well, usually pretending to quote a PM is good enough to get you killed. But in any case, the fact that its wrong is good enough for me to want that to be the lynch.

Also, because K7's role is so critical, I would prefer that he be given a star than me protecting him because of the risk of scum power.

I agree.

Alright, I'm thinking about it...and I'm beginning to wonder if the best play might be to lynch K7. Wait, hear me out. If he's honestly what he says he is, then the lynch won't lose us the game. However, the claim he made is perfect for bowser, so by lynching him it might save the game after all. Course, there's probably some gaping hole in this idea...I just thought I'd put it out there.

I already said this, but let me repeat: If K7 is lying, then faerielord is almost certainly also lying. So what you're suggesting is that k7 and fl, rather than relying on the, again,

20 in 21

chance that we would pick the wrong lynch, decided to put both of their necks on the line.

And I don't think its too good to be true. Would it really be fair to us if the scum, by virtue of simply picking the right person to nk, could win the game, with a very slim chance of us being able to save ourselves? So I'm not at all surprised that there's a role to counterbalance that.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'd say you're our last choice to give out coins, but ideally, we'd have enough to give both k7 and pop stars tonight.

I'm not sure how many both of them have right now.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Btw I don't support an ashmite lynch.

Really. Because usually when I see someone try to fake a role PM, that means they're

lying scum.

So you're going to need something pretty good to overcome that.

What do you got?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

TSPN what is fake bout my claim? This should be good.

This:

I am a Toad (Mushroom Kingdom). I am loyal to Princess Peach, and try to keep her from getting kidnapped.

Is wrong.

I would have figured that paraphrasing was done so he wouldn't be MK'd.

That is no doubt what he will claim now, but do you

paraphrase

things in a quote box?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Hmm...that's actually a fairly good point. Other than the roleclaim fiasco, is there any more evidence on ash?

Lurking, general lack of contribution. I'd say he's a pretty good lynch without the bogus claim.

But I'm willing to listen to populartajo regarding DBE.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

And its not in the role pm *cough*. Just saying.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Right, right.

Give 1 coin to killa seven.

(It won't work, but I did want to remind people that we should also be trying to get him coins.)

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Im toadsworth im peaches personal assistant, ive stood by her all of her life,
so no disguise can fool me. i cant comunicate with peach and she doesnt know who i am. i will be notified if shes kidnapped and who did it.
last night i was notified that she wasnt kidnapped see my other post.

Seems like a pretty good reason to keep someone around. Considering that if peach is actually kidnapped, and k7's no longer around, we're screwed.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Actually...if K7 is lying we've lost anyway, so there's no need to star him, is there (I mean try to kill him with it.) I still say we need to pool our coins on pop taj since he's mod confirmed for the most part.

We're talking about giving it to him, not using it on him.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I believe FaerieLord's claim, which means that we are in no direct danger; however, k7's role is something that would break the game in favor of town. I don't buy his claim, yet starring him will let him live if he's saying the truth, no?

How would it break the game? Scum can still beat us like they would it in any other game. My thinking was until k7 revealed his role was that the game was broken in favor of scum.

Mod edit
Visible Votecount:
goborage (2): Riceballtail, iamausername
FaerieLord (1): Korts
ashmite84 (1): TheSweatpantsNinja
DarlaBlueEyes (1): populartajo

Not voting (16): skitzer, Wintermute, forbiddanlight, somestrangeflea, Surye, killa seven, Gremwell, Alabaska J, farside22, ting =), DarlaBlueEyes, FaerieLord, Lord Gurgi, Cream147, goborage, ashmite84

With 21 alive it takes 11 real votes to lynch.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

k7's role would break the game because scum would lose Bowser the day after they'd kidnapped the princess, and with Bowser, their NK opportunity too.

I'm curious as to how you know that only bowser can send in nightkills. In fact, if anything, my interpretation is the opposite, that bowser can only send in kidnaps.

If he actually is Toadsworth, starring him tonight won't hurt.

Unfortunately, him being NK'd

will

hurt. Quite a lot. And don't you think he might be a bit of a scum magnet?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Uhm, if he's telling the truth, he won't die.

The star won't. But scum could. And, you would think, should.

The way I interpret it, Bowser's kill is a kidnap in the case of the princess. I just assume that since there was only one NK every night so far, the scum have a fix NK as opposed to having to buy fireflowers.

Since there seems to be at least three scumgroups, we're either preventing a lot of kills, or scum do have to buy their kills.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

K7, no one is going to get a star today. We are only going to feather people and protect you so Id like that you give me all your coins to distribute them.

Whoa. K7 is so much more valuable than you. Which is nothing personal. . . but why the hell aren't we giving him a star? We should be getting him a star.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

If K7 gets a star tonight, aka isnt killed and scum for some reason kidnappes Peach, would he know who kidnapped her, aka Bowser?

You'd think they'd

try to kill him.

I mean, I understand not lynching him but I'd rather keep the mod confirmed innocent here and somehow test our claimant rather than just let him be invulnerable forever.

Gremwell is right. We investigate him.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I don't know if "intuitive" is the right word, but I'd say the evidence leans in that direction. I would guess that the leaders of each group (now mostly dead) can attempt to kill/kidnap, and beyond that, scum are reliant on items.

So I'm not interested in pursuing korts on that.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Natirasha is pro.

Also, more ashmite votes.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Then why is Gimbo (now Gurgi) out of the firing line?

Because we didn't really decide that items aren't indicators of alignment. I think (and I goborage's poison mushroom is both useful as a pro-town or pro-scum item, whereas gimbo's is useful pro-town and rather imbalanced pro-scum.

So gimbo/gurgi is more likely to be town, and I don't think we can make a read on goborage's alignment based on that one way or another.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Tell me how I knew what Cream was talking about when no one else brought it up.

This is why farside isn't scum.

What about if instead of feathering people we just fireflower like hell. Since Peach cant die we wont kill her and with so many confirmed Toads I think the chances of hitting scum are high.

My concern would be that scum will have resources to protect themselves and townies won't. Besides, having confirmed protected townies is really nice too. If we can get you and k7 stars, then fireflowers to trusted players would be a good second choice.

Also remember that time day 1 when I said that was a good idea and everyone said "no, no." /bitter

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Hey guys, giving all our coins away is smart, I'm not so sure telling the scum who has what items is quite so smart.