Cultafia: Game over

[Norinel]

Prodding NabakovNabakov.

Vote Count:

aioqwe (2) - SlySly, Skruffs
Beep! Beep! (1) - the silent speaker
Skruffs (1) - mnowax
vollkan (1) - Beep! Beep!

Not voting (5): aioqwe, armlx, NabakovNabakov, vollkan, Yosarian2

6 to lynch

[armlx]

Why is armlx ejecting himself from the conversation?

Sounds to me a lot like the whole Skruffs vs. me argument yesterday, which was just pointless.

[Skruffs]

well.. the roleblocker is dead... scum can't keep you from making a kill. You should announce before night falls who you are going to kill.. if you are killed in the night and revealed as vig, it will tell us that you're attack was unsuccessful because the person you killed was scum.

[Skruffs]

Why is armlx ejecting himself from the conversation?

Sounds to me a lot like the whole Skruffs vs. me argument yesterday, which was just pointless.

actually it was me vs you and vollkan.

[NabakovNabakov]

Um guys, I think there's something getting lost here.

When aio posted something along the lines of "well, if it looked like I was a recruit, it would be silly to lynch me." I decided to amp that up and accused him of softclaiming. In (serious) posts since then, he has stridently denied this.

So first we have to decide if aio actually is cult who got spooked by insta-pressure or townie who got caught theorizing. One thing is certain, he's not standing up there and saying "I'm a recruit, don't lynch me" (which is what some people are basically boiling it down to)

[the silent speaker]

So first we have to decide if aio actually is cult who got spooked by insta-pressure or townie who got caught theorizing. One thing is certain, he's not standing up there and saying "I'm a recruit, don't lynch me" (which is what some people are basically boiling it down to)

QFT.

[Skruffs]

This:

If you are scum, you could also phrase your posts in an iffy way to mislead other people, which is exactly what I believe you were doing.

I'm not making that connections

My intention wasn't to mislead. If I was going to counterclaim I would have stated that it was a counterclaim. The post that I made was meant as I didn't think that that was a good/believable claim (hence, bad claim...).

THE CKD TRAIN

vote: aioqwe

[/quote]Yes, we know now, but recruiters/recruits might pile on because they didn't know if he was steadfast or not yesterday.

Why me, why not skruffs? You liked him yesterday. If your suspicions change then that would imply that I'm a recruit and the proper play would be to focus on recruiters.[/quote]


LEd to this:

What did I do armlx? I just claimed a recruit and gave out my fellow cultees like a good townie wood

Yup, my recruiter is N-N, skruffs is also in the cult

EBWOP: armlx is also with it.

Surely, you jest!

Isn't it against the rules to expose your scum buddies and their hierarchies like that?

No N-N is actually my leader have fun lynching him You can lynch me next, but it's better to get rid of leaders first eh

But yeah, I'm town.

HE played it off as a joke, but he intentionally 'connected' himself to other players in the game, which reeks of WIFOM. He acknowledged that because his behavior had changed that it meant he was likely a recruit and then suggested that I was a cult recruitor because, apparently, my behavior DIDN'T change. (Still waiting for Vollkan to pipe in with something more than "I have a dream that you are the CL" on that one).

[aioqwe]

Your first quote doesn't make sense.

I think people are latching onto the "If your suspicions change then that would imply that I'm a recruit and the proper play would be to focus on recruiters." bit too much. That wasn't a soft-claim, "I'm a recruit" or whatever, I was stating that Sly's logic is flawed. If your opinions are suddenly changing overnight, then it is a sign of a recruit as opposed to a recruiter. We should still be aiming for leaders (this doesn't mean that lynching a recruit is bad, and if someone claims recruit (aside from blaze ) that puts them in immediate consideration because they are associating themselves with cults). Furthermore, my thought was that SS might be in a cult due to the fact that he is jumping on a wagon of a recruit rather than pushing a case on what is more likely a recruiter (given the evidence/logic from his perspective).

Whatever the case is, I'm town. Skruff's second quote is completely a joke. Notice how I associated everyone attacking me with my "cult"?

Volkan, when you do argue with skruffs, can we please put like a word limit on you guys arguments? Information and discussion is good, but after a certain point it has the opposite effect, people become disinclined to read through mountainous posts and townies hence don't see through to the key points.

[mnowax]

im killing skruffs, unless there is a problem with anyone other than skruffs saying there is a problem with it.

[aioqwe]

I have a problem with it, because I think he'd be a better lynch

vote: skruffs

[Skruffs]

MNOWAX:
You've already said you're ignoring me, but your suspicion of me is as off-base as your vote on Yosarian2 yesterday for being a cult-recruitor even though you knew you were roleblocked earlier in the game.

IF you don't remember correctly (And I doubt you do because I don't htink you are actually reading the game), Armlx was pushing a case to suggest you were actually a cult recruitor, yesterday, and I defended you. You ended the day voting me. Now.. I'm not even going to say "If I was a cult recruitor, wouldn't recruiting you silence you" or whatever, it's wifom, and more importantly... And this is basically me just being mean spitritied, but I can't imagine anyone would WANT to recruit you.

AIoqwe:
I don't think the first post was a joke. I think you threw out the second post exactly for hte reason you did: A joke that you could erite off later, if you survived. IF you didn't survive, it looks like a lot of WIFOM connections to several living players in the game that, presumably, would give town a turkey chase to go after.

You have done nothing to actually HUNT for scum in this game. You are voting me SOLELY because you think I am a competing lynch and you want to be part of something without making yourself vulnerable.

Go on, admit it, it's okay. You're a low profile player trying to keep things low profile. You made a mistake, you tried to cover for it, and now you're trying to push attention off of yourself onto me. You don't even know WHY you are pushing attention on to me, except that I am the other player that people are looking at today.

I'd like to see someone say that I am a cult recruitor because I get into arguments with so many people in the game. I *would* do that, as a cult recruitor, but it's not a traditional argument to use in hunting cults.

If I have to, I Will claim, but I'd really prefer NOT to.

[mnowax]

i know isn't it so kewl that no cult would recruit me? it makes me live longer as a town member and not a cultie.

i konw you were pushing for me to be town. its EXACTLY the reason why i think youre scum. youre right in that i am town, however most people think i am scummy. why are you so different? cause youre scum that is making it look like youre distancing from me. , so when you go down, they will be able to lynch a powerful town role like me cause you were distancing.

[Beep! Beep!]

I'm not seeing Skruffs as scum.

[vollkan]

"This guy claimed recruit. I agree that someone claimed recruit is more likely to be a recruiter than another form. I can't think of any other ways to determine if someone is likely to be a cult recruiter. I stringently oppose you pressuring that player, even though they are the most likely player in the game to be cult leader and I Can offer no other ways to determine if someone is cult!

I can't remember how many times we've been over this again and again now, but you have just misrepresented me.

All I have opposed, from the beginning of this, is snap-lynching recruit claims. I don't see how you can find that even remotely controversial. I've admitted fully that they are more likely to be CL than any player at random. I've admitted that they are probably good lynches by and large. All I have argued against is voting purely because somebody claims.

At one end, there is the potential for recruit claims to be used strategically (by CRs, not CLs obviously) and, at the other end of the spectrum, there is the risk of mere opportunity cost - not going after a heavily suspected CL and, instead, taking the safe claimed option. I'm not saying that lynching the claimer is bad, or wrong, or anything. I am just advocating what I thought would have been the obvious thing which is just not to approach this with tunnel-vision.

I can understand why you are so worried abou kneejerk voting. After all, the last time you voted was a reasonless bandwagon hop onto my wagon, May 17th. Perhaps you ahven't heard o f the concept of "Pressure Voting", but it's a tactic wherein players vote a suspicious player to A) get reactions from them and B) get reactions from other players.

I've been quite clear throughout my posts about what I don't like about you. If you've forgotten, view my posts in isolation and search "Skr".

As for pressure voting, bear in mind that I am not a player who likes to move my vote around. Unless the game is dying, I don't trust pressure voting as a good means of garnering information. My reason for this (and this is really a MD discussion for later, so please don't backchat to me) is that I do not like game plays that are equally amenable to town and scum. Making a strong, logical argument as scum is much more difficult than relying on pressure and conjecture. Hence, my opposition to hunches, and gut and so forth.

I'm not defending claimed scum. I'm questioning the sense of voting the claimed scum without making an effort to explain why she is the best lynch. I find that accusations of 'defending' are among the most stupid sort to make. If somebody votes a claimed scum for what I see as a poor reason, why is it wrong of me to point it out?

This doesn't work, though. You agree that they claimed scum. You agree that the reasoning on her is sound (Recruitors would claim recruit), and you can't think of any other way to determine wether she is scum or not. You basically are saying you just don't want any attention on her, even though she claimed scum.

For starters, nice strawman, but I might suggest a bit more subtlety. I say that I don't want snap voting - and you attack me for not wanting "any attention" on the claimers. Bravo.

I've explained my position above.

There's nothing wrong with pointing out 'poor reasoning' for voting someone, bu in this case, you have outright said that you AGREE with the reasoning. However despite that you are questioning the peopple voting her (more than one) And directing no questions towards her, yourself.

Wonder why not?

Ah! Now we get to conspiracy arguments. The fact that I am questioning you and not her indicates some sinister design on my own part, does it? Equally, it's fascinating that you are spending all this time focussed on me whilst (eeny meeny miney mo) ignoring Yosarian2. See what I did thar?

I'm questioning and arguing with you because I had a problem with your play. I don't have anything I want to ask aio at this point in time. It's as simple as that.

This is what you say, but not what you do. FOcussing on other players and ignoring the scum. Tsk. You're a defense attorney, aren't you? How is aio paying you?

Skruffs, I think that focussing on you and focussing on the scum are very much one and the same.

I just really don't like the whole "I am not going ot analyze or offer input of my own but I'm going to criticize you for yours because I think it's flawed!" line of thinking you have. Something abou it is very wrong.

Nice. "Something" is wrong, but you aren't going to say what. Gut-fluff, in other words.

You are missing the fact that I am putting my reasoning out in the open through this argument. It can't be said that I haven't been clear in who I suspect (you).

Um guys, I think there's something getting lost here.

When aio posted something along the lines of "well, if it looked like I was a recruit, it would be silly to lynch me." I decided to amp that up and accused him of softclaiming. In (serious) posts since then, he has stridently denied this.

So first we have to decide if aio actually is cult who got spooked by insta-pressure or townie who got caught theorizing. One thing is certain, he's not standing up there and saying "I'm a recruit, don't lynch me" (which is what some people are basically boiling it down to)

Good point. I'd like to know if skruffs thinks that such a claim actually merits insta-votes.

im killing skruffs, unless there is a problem with anyone other than skruffs saying there is a problem with it.

Fire away. Unless we lynch him first.

[Skruffs]

i know isn't it so kewl that no cult would recruit me? it makes me live longer as a town member and not a cultie.

i konw you were pushing for me to be town. its EXACTLY the reason why i think youre scum. youre right in that i am town, however most people think i am scummy. why are you so different? cause youre scum that is making it look like youre distancing from me. , so when you go down, they will be able to lynch a powerful town role like me cause you were distancing.

I am "Different" because I've SEEN you as scum and as town and I pay attention to your CHARACTER.
I would have no reason as a cultist to be trying to say "This guy is town", especially if a lot of people think he is cult, unless you are in MY cult, and even THAT would be stupid because it leads right back to you if I die.

Now: LEt me just make this clear:

The reason you are going to vig me is because I was trying to get a lynch on SCUM yesterday, and not you. If I had acted like... a cultist... and just piled onto you and let Armlx take the fall if you came up town, then, well, that would make me seem more likely to be tonw.

And that completely BACKWARDS thinking is exactly why I think you are, and always have been, town. Go ahead and vig me, I don't care. You obviously think I am town, or else you wouldn't think I was viggable.

[Skruffs]

The reason I Say "Go ahead" is because when I die, it confirms you as still-a-vig, and not a cult recruit.

Vollkan: I like how you call what I said about Aioqwe 'gut fluff' when actually I was calling Aioqwe out for hte same thing. You couldn't be tying yourself to him harder if you tried.

[Yosarian2]

im killing skruffs, unless there is a problem with anyone other than skruffs saying there is a problem with it.

Meh. Let's see how this lynch goes first.

vote:aioqwe

[aioqwe]

I don't think the first post was a joke. I think you threw out the second post exactly for hte reason you did: A joke that you could erite off later, if you survived. IF you didn't survive, it looks like a lot of WIFOM connections to several living players in the game that, presumably, would give town a turkey chase to go after.

You have done nothing to actually HUNT for scum in this game. You are voting me SOLELY because you think I am a competing lynch and you want to be part of something without making yourself vulnerable.

It's a joke nothing more to it. I added in armlx in the second post because I didn't see his attack in the post right before the first post.

Also, I have no idea why I was voting you.

vote: slysly

. BTW if you want some who is lying low try SS or BB! I mean BB doesn't really post that much.

My first day I was presenting a case against occult, but that ended up going nowhere and I kind of had a falling out with the game ever since you and volkan started mountain posting.

[aioqwe]

EDBWOP: unvote, vote: slysly

[aioqwe]

EDBWOP:

unvote, vote: slysly

Gr.

[armlx]

Umm, yeah, its pretty obvious aioqwe is scum at this point, but I don't think he's a CL.

[Beep! Beep!]

vote: aioqwe

We may be pleasantly surprised.

[aioqwe]

what's so obvious about me being scum?

[NabakovNabakov]

Umm, yeah, its pretty obvious aioqwe is scum at this point, but I don't think he's a CL.

*shrug*

Scum is scum, and I've always had this tickly feeling in the back of my mind that it's been the scum saying different all along. Not that there isn't a logic to going for recruiters, but how possible is it really to pinpoint a lynch like that? How easy could it be to derail a wagon on a recruiter by indicating they're a recruit?

I say we get scum now and sort the rest out later.

vote: Aioqwe

[Yosarian2]

How easy could it be to derail a wagon on a recruiter by indicating they're a recruit?

Plus, it kind of feels like this is exactally what Armlx has been trying to do.