Mini 617 - Scottish Mafia, Game Over

[q21]

vote CoheedCambria09

because that's a really long name that I'm not even going to try and spell after this.

[q21]

Vote: dRool89

avatarless = SCUM

How do you know he's avatar less? He hasn't even posted in thread yet. You sir are bussing your scum buddy.

[q21]

You get replaced... or even modkilled...

[q21]

I did warn you, dcorbe.

And kuribo, in defence of my name... bite me.

[q21]

dcorbe.... its page one. Everything I have said so far is a joke... though it does seem to be making you unnaturally touchy.

[q21]

EBWOP: well it was page one until then...

[q21]

I did warn you, dcorbe.

I don't know why you felt the need to warn me at all. We're still pretty much well entrenched into the random voting phase.

And kuribo, in defence of my name... bite me.

Wow, OMGUS much?

FoS: q21

for expecting anyone to take anything seriously at this point in the game.

Here is dcorbe taking my one liners seriously... and then FoSing me for taking anything seriously. They weren't serious - but they were intentional, to see who jumped on them.

FoWhatIsWrongWithYou: dcorbe because I think it's pretty obvious that EA is not breadcrumbing, and exiting the random voting stage is not anti-scumhunting. Your posts are really weird and you take everything seriously, what's with that?

What's wrong with taking anything seriously? You can take something seriously and still have fun with it. I'd be concerned about anyone who is able to coast through a game without making a serious attempt at scum hunting. It's in the town's best interests to take a few things seriously and it's in the scum's best interests not to.

Here, shortly after FoSing me for taking anything seriously he tells hw important it is for the town to take things seriously...

unvote, vote dcorbe

Erratus Apathos

If that was your reason surely you'd at least FOS everyone else without an avatar.

Holy bejesus, there's two people without an avatar? If I was the third guy on your team I'd be really pissed at the both of you for giving away yourselves this early.

Here is the comment which dcorbe seems to be hounding EA for. Looks like it was originally meant in jest to me. But just after FoSing me for being serious he decides that being serious is the way to go because then he can pile the pressure on.

And anyway, assuming three scum at the beginning of a 12 player game is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. It doesn't really help anyone much, but it isn't some outrageous assumption that indicates that he

must

know something. Yes, its perfectly possible that it was a scum slip, but it really isn't enough to justify the L-2 wagon on him.

[q21]

No just design, but believe what you will.

Also, I got the impression that it was not, or at least not just, the random votes you thought I was getting serious about.

[q21]

Mostly because you were the first to get on that wagon for a reason I don't particularly think is worth of the size the wagon has reached. And you were the one hounding him the most for it. Also, you seemed to lose your lets not take things seriously viewpoint just in time to pile the pressure on him.

But you make a decent point, there is more than 1 person on that wagon. The last vote on it come from Cephrir.

I've made the same slip-up as scum. This is a good wagon.

Unvote, Vote EA

dcorbe's behavior still strikes me as odd.

One of the main reasons the EA wagon (which you Cephrir approves of) being where it is, is due to the pushing of dcorbe... but he doesn't like dcorbe's behaviour?

[q21]

Um... OMGUS much?

First you say that most early day one wagons fall apart, which is perfectly true... then you vote for me for actions which could lead to an early day one wagon falling apart. Why do you think that early D1 lbandwagons fall apart?

If people didn't pick apart the early wagons based on "that's not a good reason to vote for someone" then those early wagons would end up being the day one lynches.

[q21]

No, by unvoting him EA you are in fact the one who

ensured

that the EA wagon would fall apart, I just said I didn't like it. I don't see how my posting could stop you getting info out of EA.

Its still OMGUS if the reason you give isn't worth much, and I don't feel the reason you gave was worth very much.

[q21]

Because EA would never have guessed that that was what was happening... right...

[q21]

q21 seems to be chainsaw defending erratus with the attacks on dcorbe

If I see something I don't like or don't agree with I say so. If that amounts to defending someone, then so be it. If Erratus is later shown to be scum then I was wrong - but I still don't like the wagon and said so.

[q21]

You don't need to get permission to hammer. If you think he should be hammered then hammer him. It looks like you want to have the defence of, "But you guys told me to," if he should come up innocent.

[q21]

Also, Lowell, why does that make CC09 town? Agree about rofl of course. dcorbe would have had to have been doing some ridiculous bussing that could have gotten himself lynched. But that might also have caused some of EA's frustration.

Because if the mod is unlikely to claim for EA she's even less likely to fake claim for for him... If CC09 were scum he'd know where the mod claiming would lead and would never have asked that.

[q21]

Apparently I have some splaining to do.

I originally posted my suspicions about dcorbe based on the fact that he seemed to change from serious is bad to serious is good just when it would give him reason to bandwagon EA. I also mentioned that I didn't like the reason the bandwagon started on EA and didn't feel it was worth L-2 so early in the game. Apparently that amounted to defending EA and when he came up scum I knew I would probably take some heat for it today and so be it. I am prepared to answer for any and every action I have committed.

I think my actions yesterday are summed up by the simple statement that it is a townies job to call out anything and everything they disagree with and this is what I did.

/splaining

With EA flipping town I don't like the way dcorbe took the very first route out of voting for him (voting for me) it seemed like he was relieved that there was suddenly someone he though he could pressure other than his scumbuddy. When it became clear that EA was going to be lynched anyway he was sure to jump back on.

I also don't like the way he seems to think we have to target the people he wants to target.

BTW I don't like all this blatant defending going on. If you care to hop on a bandwagon because you agree with my reasoning that's fine, but if you blast me before the target of my aggression has a chance to respond to me, then it sort of comes off like you're not actually interested in doing any scum hunting at all.

Yeah, people who target you aren't scum hunting..? Heaven forfend that the scum we might be hunting is you.

I'm thinking "bussing scumbuddy".

vote dcorbe

[q21]

I've already explained why I felt it necessary to put a vote out there on q21, but I'll go through the process again because it keeps coming up. This will probably be the last time I say this before I start ignoring it.

1) I felt as if the EA wagon was going to fall apart because I had to telegraph my intentions to get q21 to stop his relentless assault on my wagon.

I was just simply wrong in this assumption

I fully believe this, but its part of why I think you're scummy. You were bussing your buddie, you saw something that you thought would help the wagon fall apart and you jumped on and tried to exacerbate it. My assault on your wagon was far from relentless, mostly it was just me responding to you.

2) I'm not demanding that anyone be targeted, though I still support the wagoning process in its fullest. I tried to make my case against cybele and it isn't panning out like I had hoped, but I'm not sitting here arguing with people about it like you seem to enjoy doing.

But dcorbe, you're supposed to argue your cases, not just make them and hope a wagon forms.

[q21]

@q21:

and BTW all you seem to do is twist my words around and strawman me. I would definitely call that an all out assault.

What do you think of roflcopter's use of the word "chainsaw" to describe your actions yesterday?

Point out how and where I have twisted your words and strawmanned you. I believe everything I've said about you is a fair interpretation, pointing out those things instead of just complaining I'm doing them is much more likely to stop me feeling you're scum.

I think that by "chainsaw defence" he means that I was attacking you with the sole intention of helping EA. He is wrong, but I agree that my actions may look that way and am aware that EA being scum doesn't reflect well on me.

Oh, and with reference to your post 165, I haven't mentioned anything about your case on Cybele.

[q21]

Just pointing out why I didn't think the Slip was necessarily a scumtell.

Originally went after dcorbe mostly because he told me off for being serious (which he had to contrive since I was being anything but serious) and then when Cephrir told him not to take things so seriously he went on to say that we had to be serious.

[q21]

Oh, and Cephrir:

You're dead. Stop posting.

[q21]

Right. Now I'm REALLY confused.

[q21]

Maybe I am. Also, maybe I saw his post, thought that he'd been killed and then misread the OP... where he is listed as dead... I missed the bit where he's also listed as alive.

[q21]

That's L-1 I believe. Claim or die time.

[q21]

Empking, you claim points at the guy I'm voting for being innocent so for now I'll

unvote

but your last few posts (all of your posts on this page) make very little sense.

[q21]

When did I say everyone who wanted me to claim was scum?

That's L-1 I believe. Claim or die time.

I like the Empking wagon, all the points made against him seem valid and resonable... I'll wait for his claim before I do anything though.

Do you deny these quotes?

I can't deny the quote, but I can try to put in back into context. I never made any arguments for you being scummy, I never even voted for you. It was not, as you seem to think, me hounding you for a claim. It was me commenting out the fact that you'd just reached L-1 and that that is the time that people usually claim. No conspiracy.

[q21]

I see I am to become the next wagon target, fair enough. Is anyone going to give me some reasons to defend against?

[q21]

sigh. seriously, can nobody go back and read what i wrote about q21 when the empking wagon was going on?

long story short, q21 engaged in something that i've seen called "the chainsaw defense" on behalf of erratus. that is, he defended erratus not by trying to argue against the points that were made in favor of erratus being scum, but by attacking erratus' most vocal attacker, dcorbe. if empking is truly the cop, then we have a further point against q21 in the fact that dcorbe is cop-confirmed innocent.

i'm pretty uneasy about this whole kuribo wagon.

I believe I've answered this already.

Apparently I have some splaining to do.

I originally posted my suspicions about dcorbe based on the fact that he seemed to change from serious is bad to serious is good just when it would give him reason to bandwagon EA. I also mentioned that I didn't like the reason the bandwagon started on EA and didn't feel it was worth L-2 so early in the game. Apparently that amounted to defending EA and when he came up scum I knew I would probably take some heat for it today and so be it. I am prepared to answer for any and every action I have committed.

I think my actions yesterday are summed up by the simple statement that it is a townies job to call out anything and everything they disagree with and this is what I did.

I don't see how dcorbe being "cop-confirmed innocent" is a further point against me. For starters townies make mistakes and it is possible I did so with dcorbe, but he has acted scummy and I feel I was perfectly within my rights to attack him for it. Also, a probable cop claiming someone to be innocent is reason to stop voting them then, but it is not reason to drop all suspicion of dcorbe. There are many eventualities in which dcorbe is scum.

[q21]

What is weak about it?

[q21]

I have unvoted dcorbe and don't intend to vote for him any time in the near future I was simply pointing out how I don't see that a claimed cop claiming dcorbe is innocent is a point against me.

[q21]

@roflcopter

I like the way you leave yourself room to accuse Cephrir regardless or whether I'm innocent or guilty. Is it not possible that he's simply a townie pointing out something he doesn't agree with?

[q21]

Buddying up? You could be scum for all I know - I just don't like the way he doesn't even mention the possibility that your town.

[q21]

Apologies for the double post.

roflcopter - Was my attack on dcorbe irrational, uncalled for or invalid? If so, how?

If the answer is yes then you have a case for your "chainsaw defense" if not (as is the case) then your case is worthless.

[q21]

@q21: the case was not irrational or invalid. i think it may have been uncalled for, because i thought erratus was making himself pretty obvious with how upset he was getting over being caught for something he must have considered to be a stupid reason. however, something doesn't have to be irrational or invalid to be coming from scum. the scum are equally capable of putting together strong and well reasoned arguments, and i even agree that, looking back at it, you came out of the exchange with dcorbe looking

smarter

, but still more scummy because of who you were defending and who you were attacking. a strong and well reasoned argument from scum is harder to catch, but the

motivation

for it can still give it away. you were trying to derail the erratus wagon and put the heat on his primary aggressor, dcorbe.

If pointing out what I though was scummy is uncalled for then so be it.

You agree that it was neither irrational nor invalid so basically your case comes down to WIFOM. The fact that EA turned out to be scum does strengthen it, but it is still essentially WIFOM that you have grabbed onto the wrong end of.

[q21]

So do you think that Dcorbe is scum or just town making something up?

This is a very strange comment from a claimed cop who revealed dcorbe as town.

Also, it been rather a long time since we heard anything from dcorbe.

MOD: Can you prod dcorbe please.

[q21]

So do you think that Dcorbe is scum or just town making something up?

This is a very strange comment from a claimed cop who revealed dcorbe as town.

Also, it been rather a long time since we heard anything from dcorbe.

MOD: Can you prod dcorbe please.

As the cop who scried him as innocent, I found both answers absurd but I couldn't work out any other answers and I just didn't want to presume Kuribo thought Dcorbe was town making something up.

I got the information I wanted from that question and I'm 100% commited to a kuribo lynch.

If you have reasons to be 100% committed to a kuribo lynch do you mind sharing them with us.

[q21]

vote kuribo

Claimed scum dies, simple.

[q21]

Its sad when there are so few people around that you can't even lynch the claimed scum.

[q21]

First things first: Who did you investigate, Empking?

[q21]

Welcome Mirth, and thank god for another sane player... though I'll be impressed if your sanity is still completely intact after reading this whole thread at once.

I'm going to add to your vote on Lowell.

Vote Lowell

I'm growing suspicious of cephir and kuribo.

cephir for the reasons rofl brings up, particularly in 280. kuribo mostly because of his behavior of late.

He posts a lot about... basically nothing. Alarming.

Suspecting someone for basically what he, himself, has been doing the whole game. Lowell has even been doing to worse than Kuribo was. Only one of his posts exceeds about 4 lines of text... and that is basically an affirmation that CC09 is town.

There is also the fact that every vote he's made (save one) was for someone who already had votes against them. The one time he voted for someone (oddly enough one of the few times he gives any kind of reason for a vote) is when he voted for Empking - the reason given was simply that he wasn't on the EA wagon.

[q21]

I voted kuribo because he claimed scum. I am aware that he was one of the most townie looking players, but that doesn't stop him being scum. I know he's a good enough player to do that. It turned out that he was town being frustrated with the stupidity around him, but he could just as well have been scum imploding due to the stupidity around him.

When someone claims scum there are generally two possibilities (except in the case of a jester - but I'd be honestly surprised if we had one here). 1) They are actually scum. 2) They are a townie who's given up on playing but doesn't want to be replaced and as such isn't much use keeping around.

I pretty much agree with all you've said. Lowell, Massive and CC09 have hardly been around. Empking makes no sense most of the time, though he is almost certainly the cop. roflcopter is like a dog with a bone when he decides on something and changing his mind is difficult - but that doesn't make him scum. Cybele, I haven't got much of a read on. Dcorbe was scummy but he was cleared by Empking, who is a cop, as I said I now believe... therefore I think you are pretty much cleared, though there is still the godfather possibility.

Having just read through the thread you should know that the only people I have really showed any suspicion of were Cephrir1 (dead), dcorbe/Mirth (cop-cleared) and to a lesser extent Empking himself (cop). I was thinking about restarting the Empking hate, hence my questioning him about his find, until this post:

Yeah... I knew there was something I forgot to do before I opened the thread.

I then decided to look at some other posts - I was prompted toward Lowell by your giant post and having reread his contribution myself I decided that he was indeed worthy of my vote. Specifically for the reasons I mentioned.

[q21]

I didn't notice how much (or little, as the case may be here) it was until I actually looked over the thread. Much of day two was spent attacking dcorbe, defending myself or trying to follow what Empking was saying.

[q21]

well, mirth, what i got from reading your post by post (yes i did read it, and will probably comment on some of the details later after re-reading it because it was a big, meaty post) was that you disagree with the way i play this game and that i r dumb. i'm sorry you think so, but i have to disagree with your assessment of q. he was thankfully kind enough to drop a realllllllly scummy line just now to help me back myself up though.

therefore I think you are pretty much cleared,

though there is still the godfather possibility.

bolded to make it more obvious what is so freaking scummy. he's trying to legitimize a future lynch on the person (you, no less) who is

confirmed innocent

by what essentially just became a

mod-confirmed

cop, damage control post from the mod notwithstanding. am i the only one who finds instigating godfather paranoia to be really, really scummy?

... stuff aimed at Mirth...

vote: q21

Your vote doesn't surprise me, like I said earlier, you're like a dog with a bone. That said, why is it scummy to refuse to rule out any and every possibility?

...

based on the erratus lynch ALONE kuribo and dcorbe were obviously not scum, even if you think dcorbe was a flaming idiot because of the way he built cases.

the very fact that he worked so fucking hard to build the case clears him.

on top of that our resident masterclass cop has an innocent result on dcorbe which should only be icing on the cake, but your golden boy q still for some hare-brained reason wants you

in the running to be lynched.

WHAT!?

The bolded bit is so much wifom its laughable. Scum work extremely hard to build cases so that townies get lynched. If anything they have to work harder to paint guilt where there is innocence.

because of who he was attacking/defending (Hindsight is 20/20.)

this was in re: my q21 vote and case.

and here is the crux of the case, which apparently nobody fucking gets. scum sight is ALSO 20/20. the scum know, in real time, who is scum and who is not. so somebody defending the scum and attacking the townie is not scummy because in my hindsight i see dead scum and living cop confirmed townie, its scummy because at the time they were live scum and live townie and the scum KNEW THAT, and moved to try to CHANGE THE COURSE OF THE WAGON FROM SCUMPARTNER TO NONSCUM. jesus. sorry if i'm a little ticked off by mirth's post by post analysis of my apparently mongoloid intelligence.

If you hindsight is what you're basing your case on on why were you accusing me of this on day one, when you had no hindsight. What if I was right? I could quite easily have been. Maybe its you with the 20/20 scumsight? You saw your scumbuddy getting hammered and when you saw me make what was, at best, an oblique defence for them you commented on it in the hope that you could use it against me in the future.

[q21]

First of all I don't believe its a mafia roleblocker. I believe Emp is the cop and Mod's comments were an indication that she forgot to send emp his result.

Firstly:

Just got the reply. I got no result.

This would indicate roleblocker.

The fact that a player keeps trying to push the godfather idea is an unsettling one. It means someone doesn't want us to take future cop investigations at face value.

When did I keep trying to push the godfather idea? rolfcopter had to go an fish that line out a four paragraph post. And I hadn't mentioned it again until someone he brought it up.

[q21]

why is it scummy to refuse to rule out any and every possibility?

it is scummy to bring up the possibility of a godfather on the cop innocent because you are trying to take away the town's most potent weapon against the scum, confirmed innocents, which if the town accrues enough of become a literally impossible obstacle for the scum to overcome, by undermining every single cop investigation, past present or future. the people who benefit the most from a town that is paranoid about the possibility of a godfather are the scum themselves.

So you are saying that it is impossible for Mirth to be a godfather or for Empking to be insane? Should we implicitly trust everything she says? Mirth being scum is highly unlikely and I no longer think she is (as opposed to D1 and early D2), but it is a possibility. You are doing more to spread "godfather paranoia" than anything I have done.

The bolded bit is so much wifom its laughable. Scum work extremely hard to build cases so that townies get lynched. If anything they have to work harder to paint guilt where there is innocence.

but dcorbe was working hard to paint guilt where there was in fact guilt, at a point in time where if he hadn't been doing so the likelihood of erratus being lynched would be much lower. of course the scum work hard to lynch innocents, but the scum don't work hard to lynch their own fucking scumpartners, which is what "the bolded bit" was saying. i can't believe mirth thinks you are any less of an idiot than the rest of us.

dcobe worked hard to lynch Erratus? At the beginning he himself said that it was simply a pressure bandwagon a number of times. Later he jumped of the EA wagon onto me at the first given opportunity. When you mentioned about working hard on cases I thought you were talking about his D2 Cybele case. His pushing on EA proves nothing about his (now her) alignment.

If you hindsight is what you're basing your case on on why were you accusing me of this on day one, when you had no hindsight. What if I was right? I could quite easily have been.

no, sorry. at the time, you were the only person trying to stop the erratus lynch and start a dcorbe wagon in its place. everyone else was all over erratus' case and for good reason. he was mind bogglingly obvious. i called it like i saw it on day one, and then when we had role-reveal confirmation of erratus being scum i pursued you for the transgression.

If everyone else was all over Erratus and my transgression was so obvious why did you go after Empking before me? The reason that the EA wagon started was not good imo and I said that. I found dcorbe's actions scummy and I said that too. I am not the kind of player who will follow something simply because the town thinks that way. The "chainsaw defending" case was bad yesterday and its still bad today.

When did I keep trying to push the godfather idea? rolfcopter had to go an fish that line out a four paragraph post. And I hadn't mentioned it again until someone he brought it up.

hiding it in a four paragraph post is a great way to plant the seeds of doubt in the town's head without calling a hell of a lot of attention to the fact that you're trying to do so. i "had to go and fish that line out" because it was incredibly scummy, and attention did need to be called to it in particular.

There is nothing wrong with pulling out a line you think is scummy from a post (although I disagree that it was scummy). In this post I was simply pointing out that Lowell was wrong when he said that I kept trying to push anything.

[q21]

Well he hasn't posted as much recently, but yes.

All talk about a "godfather" does is plant the seed of "we can't necessarily trust cop investigations." He looks like someone who is worried the field will close around him and wants to be able to plausibly throw accusations at anyone and everyone he chooses.

Jees, you're taking a perfectly reasonable comment and blowing it up and acting like I was trying to push the idea that there must be a godfather on everyone.

[q21]

How are you certain that we'll know by tomorrow whether there's a roleblocker or not, what more will we have learned?

[q21]

Just reread your post Lowell, you said probably, not certainly. My bad, but still - what more are we likely to know by tomorrow?

[q21]

Just reread your post Lowell, you said probably, not certainly. My bad, but still - what more are we likely to know by tomorrow?

Do you really want me to discuss potential scum strategy in the thread?

If you think you'd be going deep into scum strategy then fair enough, don't talk about it. But if its something obvious I've missed then I'd like to hear it.

[q21]

Ceph is dead. Cybele is still alive, but quiet.

[q21]

Cybele, for the sake of cordiality I will assume your reasons for the Lowell vote are similar to those already expressed on thread by other players. I'd like to know the reasons for your Massive suspicion, though.

[q21]

Cybele, for the sake of cordiality I will assume your reasons for the Lowell vote are similar to those already expressed on thread by other players. I'd like to know the reasons for your Massive suspicion, though.

Mainly because it was he and Lowell who pushed so hard for a kuribo lynch on day 2.

Empking pushed Kuribo pretty hard - even forced suicide reveal out of him. What do you think of Empking?

[q21]

guys we have to leave empking out of it, if we exhaust all options THEN we may look at him but why try to go after an uncounter-claimed cop right now, its just useless unless we have no other suspects.

So you foresee a time when there are suspects better that the un-counter-claimed cop? I was simply questioning the validity of Cybele's reasons when when the un-counter-claimed cop did the same thing.

[q21]

q21

-

SCUMMY

. Reading back, the early pages around the start of the erratus wagon are really damning. dcorbe started pushing the erratus wagon based on the "3 scum" slip. Erratus punched back, voting dcorbe, and then, 35 minutes later, q21 jumps on with a dcorbe vote for weakly fabricated reasons. I think he did this thinking the erratus fire would die down.

Then he VERY suspiciously accuses dcorbe of abandoning the erratus wagon (a wagon he himself seemed until that moment to have no interest in). Post 69 is VERY scummy.

I've addressed my supposed defence of EA enough times.

The underlined bit. I never said that it was a wagon he should have stayed on, I said it looked like bussing because he jumped off the EA wagon at the very first opportunity for very little reason.

No, by unvoting him EA you are in fact the one who

ensured

that the EA wagon would fall apart, I just said I didn't like it. I don't see how my posting could stop you getting info out of EA.

Its still OMGUS if the reason you give isn't worth much, and I don't feel the reason you gave was worth very much.

Please tell me how this post is scummy?

[q21]

You're accusing dcorbe of destroying a wagon, despite there being many other people on it. If you cared about that wagon, YOU WOULD HAVE PURSUED IT. Instead you pursue someone else, avoid the wagon, and blame dcorbe for the whole thing.

My word you're backwards. I never particularly like the EA wagon and had said as much, I had no problem with it falling apart. That post was in response to dcorbe complaining that I was pulling down the wagon - something his own unvote and vote for me achieved much more assuredly than anything I did.

[q21]

I have to agree with Lowell and Mirth there.

unvote, vote CC09

If you give a better answer and vote Lowell I'll hammer him, if not my vote will stay here.

[q21]

crap whats going on in this game.

cc09 could be q's scumpartner, though it seems silly for him to bus here, especially starting the wagon himself. i guess busting his own partner like that would be a good way to try and clear himself of any remaining suspicions on him.

the lowell wagon on the other hand is really stupid all around. why are we trying to lynch the only other person here who understands that q21 is scum?

Lets talk hypothetically for a second. Say I do get lynched. I will come up town - how would that reflect on you rolfcopter?

Better yet: Say Lowell gets lynched and comes up scum, how would that reflect on you?

[q21]

At this point I've given up trying to convince roflcopter that I'm not scum. If he's town then he suffers from an unfortunate obsession, though the tunnel visioning is starting to get scummy.

[q21]

ok guys, this just a list in which Im placing from most scummy to most town on it.

q21
Lowell
Cybele
massive
roflcopter
Mirth
Empking(claimed)

rofl- you wanted help, and I argree with you

vote:q21

Since you have given zero reason for anything in that list I'm going to label that vote as OMGUS. Or do you fee like making a post that explains any of what you have said or done this game?

[q21]

Sorry, I seem to have overlooked that single word in parenthesis... the point is still pretty much the same, though.

[q21]

The reason I wanted you to give some form of explanation for that post was because at one point you seemed primed to hammer Lowell, but delayed until attention shifted... onto you. You then voted in completely the opposite direction , for me, the first person who decided that your comments while delaying and your lack of answers to people's question were worthy of a vote.

[q21]

You know, admitting that you've been scummy does absolutely nothing to improve my view of you. Actually the whole, "I know I've been scummy, but I a townie really" line reeks of scum with no defence and nowhere to go.

[q21]

then lynch me?

I am voting for you...

[q21]

Why are Massive and CC09 listed as having not voted?

[q21]

I'd be happy with someone hammering CC09 (except CC09) at pretty much any time. If CC09 sees fit to make some useful comments before then, so be it.

[q21]

I'm pretty sure CC09 is refusing to provide what he is being asked for because he feels he won't be hammered before he does - similar to how no one hammered Lowell because he didn't claim. He is hoping that by not answering the questions against him and by not providing anything in the way of analysis he can delay the hammer to the point where another bandwagon is formed and he escapes the hammer permanently - or at least for another day.

I say someone should hammer him now. He is never going to answer any questions. He is never going to provide any analysis. He should simply die.

[q21]

I like the way you call Lowell "unconfirmed", you're not confirmed either... trying to subtly make us think you're "confirmed town"?

[q21]

I'm sorry my posting has been pretty sparse lately, I have a whole pile of projects and assignments to hand in which has left me with no time for online recreation. On the weekend (Friday night/Saturday morning) I should be able to catch up properly and respond to what's happened and to anything that's been thrown my way.

[q21]

Double post, hrmph. It was 2 hours. Y'all are slackers. =]

Upon re-read of the first 7 pages, here's what I saw. Open points for discussion is really what will serve us best right now, I think.

Post 60: q21 posts a rebuttal in his nonsensical "seriousness" argument with dcorbe (Mirth) and then offers a throw-away "it's what I would have done" in regards to EA's numerical blunder.

How exactly was that post a rebuttal...? A rebuttal is made in response to something, what I did was quote some posts that seemed to show him contradicting himself and pointed out that I didn't like the reason for EA being at L-2.

Also, how was anything an "it's what I would have done". I simply said that I didn't think that EA thinking there were 3 scum was a scum-tell.

Empking's night one choice is consistent with his day one play.

I still don't get rofl's "chainsaw defending" argument, which he starts early on day one and continues to pound. Minus points for argument I don't understand. Plus points for sticking to your guns.

Post 111: Don't like rofl jumping off of EA after EA requests to be replaced.

Lowell was driving the train that pushed for lynching EA after he quit. He was also driving the train that ran up Empking early on day two. Call it even?

q21 picks back up his attack on dcorbe / defense of "seriousness" on day two. It's almost like he has blinders on and is unwilling to look at the events of the last lynch/night.

Looking at nightkills never leads anywhere, and I still think we got lucky with the lynch of EA. How come rotflcopter gets points for sticking to his guns and I get told I have blinkers on for sticking to mine?

Next post.

240: After Empking's claim and the banter back-and-forth between Empking and kuribo, q21 points out something I totally missed, and that was that he wasn't even voting for Empking at the time he called for his claim. And he hadn't made any argument saying he thought Empking was scummy. q21 claims his post was because it's, essentially, just what's done -- when someone gets to L-1, they claim. But if you don't find someone suspicious, then why would you want them to claim, bandwagoned or otherwise? It seems like you wouldn't demand a role claim in that case.

I asked him to claim because he was at L-1 and even though I wasn't likely to be the one hammering him I still wanted to see what his claim was. It wouldn't have surprised me if someone got eager and hammered him before he could claim.

[q21]

Also, how was anything an "it's what I would have done". I simply said that I didn't think that EA thinking there were 3 scum was a scum-tell.

You dismissed the three-mafia slip-up by saying that you would have assumed there were three mafia also. The slip-up wasn't because EA assumed three mafia; the slip-up was because he said conclusively "you and your two partners". An assumption would have read something like "you and your partners" or "you and your presumably two partners." It's not the quantity, which I think people focused on too much on Day One; it's the absoluteness with which EA stated that number.

I didn't dismiss it by saying I would have assumed the same, I said that I thought it was a reasonable, if useless, assumption to make.

Looking at nightkills never leads anywhere, and I still think we got lucky with the lynch of EA. How come rotflcopter gets points for sticking to his guns and I get told I have blinkers on for sticking to mine?

rofl's suspicion is related to the events as they transpired -- he was suspicious of you for your "chainsaw defense" of EA, and that was relevant because EA had flipped scum. Your suspicions, however, were unrelated to EA's lynch and were just a continuing attack on dcorbe despite dcorbe ultimately being proven right about EA being scum. I don't think you can equate the two as you seem to want to do -- it's apples and oranges.

My suspicions on day two were based more on the fact that dcorbe jumped off of EA at the first opportunity he was given and only jumped back on again when it became obvious that EA was definitely going to be lynched. I thought that was indicative of bussing.

I asked him to claim because he was at L-1 and even though I wasn't likely to be the one hammering him I still wanted to see what his claim was. It wouldn't have surprised me if someone got eager and hammered him before he could claim.

Well, that's either scummy (blatant rolefishing) or supremely lazy. If you didn't think Empking was scummy, didn't have any desire to vote him, why call on him to roleclaim? If you're just saying "it's what people do" then that's horrible. Especially in this game, since Empking's roleclaim has had the effect of rendering him completely useless.

If he hadn't claimed I'm fairly sure he'd have been lynched. Neutralised cop is better than dead cop because he's pretty much confirmed town at the moment. I happy that I asked him to claim before someone hammered him.

[q21]

So you attacked dcorbe on day one for what you thought was bussing EA, then when EA flipped scum, you felt vindicated and continued to attack dcorbe?

On day one I didn't think EA was scum, I pointed out what looked like dcorbe contradicting himself and said I didn't agree with the extent of the wagon. When EA did flip scum, the way dcorbe had jumped off at the first opportunity and complained about the wagon suddenly being useless and then jumped back on when it became obvious that EA was going down made me think he was bussing.

[q21]

Do you still think that dcorbe's play on Day One was worthy of your attention, given that EA flipped scum?

Yes.

[q21]

Massive

With respect to your [413] comments: The post was part of a discussion in which rotflcopter was calling me scummy for not labelling Mirth definite town. The reason I wouldn't do that is that it requires an assumption and I don't like making assumptions in this game. I didn't say it was likely that either she was a godfather or Emp was insane (hell, I was never going to vote for her) just that they were possibilities which made assuming Mirth confirmed town invalid in my eyes.

And who says the scum were assuming Emp was a true finder anyway?

[q21]

Well, we know dcorbe/Mirth came up as innocent and was actually innocent, so we have a bit of hindsight that the Mafia already knew. At that point of Empking's roleclaim and target reveal, the Mafia already know he's either true or naive. If we continue the thought process with the assumption that the Mafia do have a roleblocker, Empking seems like the most likely target, since Mafia wouldn't want to wait to find out which of those he specifically is before blocking him. (Cause that would mean he investigated a Mafia.) I think the Mafia assuming 'true' in this case is probably their safest play.

(Well, their safest play would probably have been to kill Empking, but what do I know.)

Okay, taking hindsight into account determine what the mafia were assuming is going a step further than I was thinking.

I think also that the death of the doctor and the abundance of plain townies means they didn't need to try and block anyone else. dcorbe played his vig role under the radar, which I think is the right way to do it. (Too many people, especially on this site, are content to just shoot and shoot and shoot.)

In [377], you call Mirth "cop-cleared" with an indication that you were suspicious of her (as dcorbe) but now you aren't. That was Sunday, July 13. [413] happens on Monday. Can you talk about why you seem to trust her less by [413]?

I trust her exactly the same in 413 and 377. What makes you think otherwise? The term "cop-cleared" comes with all the appropriate reservations that I mentioned along the way.

[q21]

vote q21

. No guts no glory. Someone has to do it.

Congrats scum if I'm wrong.

Scum trying to end discussion and therefore the day?

Personally not ready to vote yet.

[q21]

Make that three town losses out of three. Damn...

rotflcopter I was onto on day 3... days one and two were warranted with the chainsaw thing... maybe, but when he started going on about the one little line where I mentioned a godfather... should have attacked back then, but it would just have been seen as OMGUS.

Massive had me fooled until he started knowing what the scum were assuming... by then it was too late. Lowell said something one day 3 that made me think town so I was happy to move my vote to CC09...


Well played scum... Bastards...

[q21]

Only thing that really annoys me about this game is that EA goes down as having won.

[q21]

No hard feelings at all roflcopter, just a little annoyed with myself that I didn't attack back when I should have.