Dichotomafia- Games Over

ralphmerridew · Post Post #325 (ISO) » Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:04 am

ralphmerridew in post 253 wrote:MMCL, you didn't answer my question. Which of these is the case:

a) Your information marks Talitha as definitely being scum, but your information could be wrong (i.e., you are a cop, but you could be insane).

b) It is possible that Talitha is innocent but your information is correct (i.e., you are a tracker who followed Talitha to tss).

Also, is your information binary (you get one of two results, guilty / innocent) or not?

[qupte="MMCL in post114"]Also - the calls for me to reveal that I am a cop. What do you want me to say? At this stage I won't say I am and I won't say I am not. Just that I believe I have the town's best interests at heart and that I think it is highly likely that Tally is scum. [/quote]

MMCL in post 257 wrote:B cannot be correct ralph... I am not saying if A is...

This is the main post that's making me suspicious of MMCL.

If he's a standard cop, why hasn't he just said so? What does he gain by being mysterious?

If he's a less specific information role (like tracker or gunsmith), I can understand his refusal to give a specific role; it would tell the scum what sort of lie to tell. But why refuse to give any sort of response?

When I was Miss Infrared (tracker) in Clue Mafia, I followed the SK night 1. Day 1, I tried to subtly push for his lynch; when that failed, I directly claimed that I'd investigated DP, that my result had given me good reason to believe him guilty, and pushed for him to role-claim. As it happened, he claimed townie; after that, I would have been willing to state my information directly contradicted his claim, and that the town could lynch me or vig-kill me if his claim proved true. (Unfortunately, I flubbed the play at that point, and didn't post as well as I could have.)

OTOH, MMCL won't even say, "Yes, I have an investigative role." That strikes me as a way to keep open a day 2 defense of "I'm not a cop; I just I was voting based on her behavior."

That sets my scum-o-meter off completely, so until MMCL can commit to

something

,

Vote: MMCL

and FOS: Everyone who's following MMCL despite his wishy-washyness.

MMCL · Post Post #326 (ISO) » Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:30 am

LOL - Scum coming out of the closet, maybe?

I have made a commitment Ralph - I have an information role - I can't go back on that now.

I do have information to suggest that Talitha is scum. I am not 100% sure of that information but Tally's play hasn't convinced me otherwise - and that is something I usually look for (even Tally can vouch for that - check other games, some still in progress).

Why did I choose Tally, because as an ally she would be easy to convince of my innocence if the information I had suggested she was innocent. Tally, again, can vouch that I play like this.

I may be wrong - and that means my information is incorrect. But at the moment this is the most direct way of me working out my source and it's validity. Tomorrow - I can promise you now I will not say: "I'm not a cop; I just I was voting based on her behavior." The most I can say is: "I was wrong because my information was."

And that I have been honest and upfront about all along.

Why should you trust me and VOTE TALLY? Because information on a 50/50 chance is better than a random lynch. The subsequent discussion has been good and we have lots of candidates for investigation tonight and such. I will also need protection tonight, of course.

Why should you not trust me and VOTE ME (or SOMEONE ELSE)? Because you don't believe me, or Tally has convinced you that she is not scum, or because you would rather vote someone else.

Here's a few questions I would like answered:

Tally - If I was...

a) A tracker - how would you counter my information against you?
b) A cop - how would you counter my information against you?
c) A gunsmith (or equivalent) - how would you counter my information against you?
d) Another type of information role ....

Ultimately I will

FOS: Ralphmerridew

because of his vote on me and his questioning of me and my motives, and the fact that Tally random voted him at the beginning of the game, which suggests a scum distancing vote to me...

ralphmerridew · Post Post #327 (ISO) » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:27 am

Now that you've finally committed himself to something, I will

unvote: MMCL

.

Also, is your information binary (guilty / non guilty)?

In response to your comments:

Yes, Talitha has given me cause to believe she is probably good. Combining that with your (IMO) suspicious refusal to commit to anything led me to believe you were lying. Because you have since claimed, I'm going to have to carefully think it over.

MMCL · Post Post #328 (ISO) » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:35 am

I still haven't changed what I've being saying all along Ralph - perhaps you have missed some posts. I committed myself a long time ago.

I still think you and Tally are likely to be scum together.

No - Im not answering the binary question.

ralphmerridew · Post Post #329 (ISO) » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:43 am

Well, I had looked through all the posts for such a message, but must have overlooked it; where did you specifically commit yourself?

Talitha · Post Post #330 (ISO) » Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:53 pm

MMCL wrote:Tally - If I was...

a) A tracker - how would you counter my information against you?
b) A cop - how would you counter my information against you?
c) A gunsmith (or equivalent) - how would you counter my information against you?
d) Another type of information role ....

a) If you were a tracker you would know that the person I visited last night is still alive
b) If you're a cop (which is my guess), then you're paranoid or insane.
c) If you're a gunsmith then you'd know I don't have a gun
d) I can't think of any other role that would make you think I'm guilty.

(I already answered all these things for Wacky, BTW.)

NanookTheWolf · Post Post #331 (ISO) » Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:38 pm

Unvote: Peacebringer

... since that seems to be the consensus.

MMCL wrote:Why should you trust me and VOTE TALLY? Because information on a 50/50 chance is better than a random lynch. The subsequent discussion has been good and we have lots of candidates for investigation tonight and such. I will also need protection tonight, of course.

Well, I'm interested to see whether your role is valid or not to follow and I suppose this is the only way to do it really. As much as Talitha has defended itself I think it's still best to test this ability that MMCL has I guess, so

Vote:Tally

. I don't really know what else to go on right now besides that MMCL does make a good point above.

Mgm · Post Post #332 (ISO) » Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:52 pm

I don't like it when people accuse first and check their sanity later even if it is their usual play.
I'll go and think this over.

Unvote

if I'm voting someone.

MMCL · Post Post #333 (ISO) » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:38 pm

Who said anything about checking my sanity?

I think I have quite explicitly stated that I am checking my information.

Norinel · Post Post #334 (ISO) » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:56 pm

Mgm wasn't voting for anyone.

Probably last time I'll get on before the deadline

Vote Count:

Talitha- 6 (MMCL, Fishbulb, Save The Dragons, Wacky, Flying Dutchman, NanookTheWolf)
NanookTheWolf- 3 (PeaceBringer, Talitha, Uraj45)
lulu muumuu- 1 (willows_weep)

Not voting (5) - Fuldu, lulu muumuu, Mgm, ralphmerridew, Silgado106

8 to lynch, 4 at deadline.

Mgm · Post Post #335 (ISO) » Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:53 pm

Yes, you are checking your info, but I'd prefer you check it

before

killing someone based on it. Now that Tally responded to your questions could you be more specific on your claim?

Talitha · Post Post #336 (ISO) » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:58 am

Yeah, why do you keep ignoring my answers MMCL.

MMCL · Post Post #337 (ISO) » Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:09 am

I don't 'keep' ignoring your answers...?!

I read them - I think they are bog-standard answers and they haven't convinced me to unvote.

Talitha · Post Post #338 (ISO) » Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:30 pm

bog-standard? What more do you want from me???

For everyone's information - I have already communicated my role to MMCL, and he acknowledged that he knows what role I am claiming. And he STILL doesn't see fit to give me any kind of a chance.

I've changed my mind and I think you should lynch him tomorrow, when you see I'm on the level. At the very least it will teach him not to do this bullshit again. (Yes, I am annoyed.)

See Improbable Role mafia for mith and Antrax's opinions on what you should do when a 'cop' gets an innocent lynched - lynch them the next day as a meta-game strategy.

MMCL · Post Post #339 (ISO) » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:11 pm

Who said I am a cop? I didn't...

Yes - I know what role you have claimed to have. I don't believe you. Just something in your style, Tally.

Mgm · Post Post #340 (ISO) » Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:32 pm

Tally wrote:a) If you were a tracker you would know that the person I visited last night is still alive
b) If you're a cop (which is my guess), then you're paranoid or insane.
c) If you're a gunsmith then you'd know I don't have a gun
d) I can't think of any other role that would make you think I'm guilty.

You claim to have info on Tally, so you can't be much else than a cop, or would you like to discredit any of the claims Tally made here?

Talitha · Post Post #341 (ISO) » Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:54 pm

**Deletes all the obscenities**
You obviously don't know my style as well as you think you do then. Perhaps next time you'll actually THINK about things.

I know it's too late to save myself, but at least yelling at you is therapeutic.

Wacky · Post Post #342 (ISO) » Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:02 pm

I would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge my aliveness and FOS: MGM a few more times, if Tally turns out to be scum.

Talitha · Post Post #343 (ISO) » Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:15 pm

Flying Dutchman · Post Post #344 (ISO) » Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:24 am

Sorry Tal, I'm also thinking you're our best option today.....

MMCL · Post Post #345 (ISO) » Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:26 am

Tally,
With regard to your style... I have never seen you get angry over something in the way you are in this game - even when wrongly accused. I would even go further and suggest that you are faking this anger to make me think your posting is 'emotional' - which is something I have indicated in another game as a good sign of someone's innocence (but of course, only when it is honest emotions being reflected).

I know you have seen me state this in the other game, and I would suggest that an honest defence would work better than your shrewd but seemingly faux emotional appeal you are making now.

Mgm · Post Post #346 (ISO) » Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:17 am

*cough*answerplease?*cough*

Mgm wrote:
Tally wrote:a) If you were a tracker you would know that the person I visited last night is still alive
b) If you're a cop (which is my guess), then you're paranoid or insane.
c) If you're a gunsmith then you'd know I don't have a gun
d) I can't think of any other role that would make you think I'm guilty.
You claim to have info on Tally, so you can't be much else than a cop, or would you like to discredit any of the claims Tally made here?

MMCL · Post Post #347 (ISO) » Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:50 am

You claim to have info on Tally, so you can't be much else than a cop, or would you like to discredit any of the claims Tally made here?

No. I would not like to discredit any of her claims. However - I haven't changed my vote, have I?

Talitha · Post Post #348 (ISO) » Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:08 am

AN HONEST DEFENSE??? TO WHAT???????

I can't do ANYTHING about what goes on in YOUR brain MMCL.

Thinking I'm scum is one thing... getting everyone else to follow you because you say you have information is quite another.

My dying wish is that you lynch MMCL tomorrow (town).

As for me getting angry/upset. I think it only ever happened once before. My very first game, I was pro-town, I was the doctor, I was lynched Day 1. At least I deserved it in that game.

Mgm · Post Post #349 (ISO) » Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:13 am

MMCL:
If you're some information role trying to get someone lynched, it's not a smart thing to keep the town in the dark as to the specifics of your role.

How do you expect people to believe you if you don't give them proof? Besides, by claiming you have info on Tally, you've already put a target on your head, so what have we got to lose if you claim?