Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps

[MariaR]

If we lose this game on a Krazy Lynch after my other 2 big trs shot each other I might just bash my head into a wall

[Firebringer]

If we lose this game on a Krazy Lynch after my other 2 big trs shot each other I might just bash my head into a wall

can i bash it in the wall 4 u?

[Alisae]

If we lose this game on a Krazy Lynch after my other 2 big trs shot each other I might just bash my head into a wall

you should try and do something to prevent that

[Wooper]

gamma questions aren't helpful for alignment sorting.
gamma not pushing his questions and badgering for answers or follow up on them tells me they are there to fill space. Which is what he would do as scum.

Like literally the only way i have known scum!gamma and town!gamma apart.

This is straight BS. While I've had this issue before of lack of follow up, firstly to say that is the case here is fucking idiotic, did you not see when I tried to catch up at all you myopic drone? Secondly that is NOT HOW ANYONE has ever fusing read me right ever. I am almost certain every time that point has been made against me, I've been town. And I do have one instance burned in my mind of a scum deliberately BSing a scum read on me with that reasoning. So you pushing such a point makes me doubt YOU are town.

Actually Gamma

did you ever say why you wanted Ali to answer about who e targeted

Already explained paranoia parts of it but there was some desperation to it as well, I was desperate for something that would turn the game for town.

alignments aside i'm framing this post after the game's over

[Krazy]

Spoiler:

Dannflor
^Dannflor is an amazing town player but I've zero idea how Pine would think of him in terms of selecting him as a scumbuddy. That having been said: his play this game is incredibly underwhelming given what he's capable of. It's a little bit iffy as a result.

I kinda think Dann actually is an above average equity pick also because of Vengeful Ghosts; he had a night 1 save as a doctor (even though, as far as I know, Pine completely forgot this occurred halfway through the game--so your mileage may vary here). Still Dann and Duck kinda saved the game in the dead thread with him so I think Dann and Duck both have pretty decent pick equity.

oh ok dann is scum

pedit: also bahahaha this whole "ooh how does fruit work let me bargain for it" the past 10 posts is so fucking fake

town Dann never writes this lol

like I agree with this but *what did you mean* by this?

@Dann why did you ignore this?

so if maria's vote is scummy FYPOV why are you not unvoting me here?

@Dann why did you ignore this?

Krazy like specifically ignored inquiry on the topic

What I was wondering was why Alyssa buys into Dann's suggestion of Buffy rather than saying something like "I'm bringing Buffy" from the getgo to make it a bit more obvious

But she did say she was going to go to his house and watch Buffy which could easily be construed as a crumb for a slayer's gambit.

I just don't know whether I like it more than my Mena theory

It's also the case that I'm familiar with the extent to which Dann and Ank shitpost to each other, but I don't want to say it can't be a crumb just because they shitpost.

I've literally never played with Menalque before. I don't know how he plays. He fits the specific type of player

I've been trying to hunt for

because the way I'm seeing the game, that specific type is the most likely to hold scum.

Yeah what do you got

the breakfast club, moana, seven seasons of Buffy

yknow the usual

Looks like a Buffy night

Like there's no way Ank hid anywhere outside of Mena or Dann.

Dannflor
Mastina
chennisden
Menalque
Lady Lambdadelta
Pine

The question is whether she hid behind her top living scumread, someone who no one else was scumreading, or her 4th highest scumread.

There's basically no way she hid behind anyone else.

So I find arguments that Dann + Mena are BOTH town sus

So a few points for reference, in 2650 I observe that Dann is a likely pick for Pine; Dann had been pushing me weakly off and on before but he becomes significantly more aggressive after this, which I observe in 3019 and 3055. He spends the next dayphase kinda pushing me but then begins to drop off his push as I get focused on mastina. Dann tries to stay off both me and mastina a lot of the time after this, which would fit with a scum agenda of letting a TvT persists while not really wanting to get into it too much. In 7279 I noticed that Dann seemed to be ignoring my posts more frequently which surprised me given his read on me had seemed so unstable and he had seemed so paranoid.

I feel like 8856 is important though. Dann had stalled on updating his read of me for a while at this point, and I think that he was trying to decide how I would react to pops' theory that he might have been Ank's guilty. I wasn't really sure at the time because I think the language Ank used irt to Dann had previously been used toward Dann and it seemed like there was a crumb, but the other contextual evidence suggested she hid behind someone who wasn't her top scumread and her "slay" language used toward Dann came late in the day, whereas her language toward Mena came early. In this sense I think Ank *was* planning to hide behind Mena earlier in the day, and changed her mind toward Dann later in the day, but I hadn't really reached that conclusion at that point. But what's important here is that after this, Dann really spends a while pretty much openly townreading and defending me. That is until 10777, when I start emphasizing that while there's room for doubt between Mena and Dann, Dann is the stronger case at this point but there's really no plausible target outside the two of them. And in fact Dann had argued against using Ank's guilty at all, which I found pretty suspicious. It's one thing to have doubts, it's another to use the challenges in Undertale as an excuse to ignore a potential mech guilty.

What this says to me is that Dann has been not been genuinely sorting me for the entire game, pushing me lightly early, backing off when I became focused on mastina, townreading me when I wasn't certain he was a guilty, and then immediately scumreading me when I reconsider that position. It's not just that Dann's read of me changes in response to my read of him, it's that his tone changes as well.

blah I don't like either of the top wagons

VOTE: Krazy

I'd like to talk about your reads the next time you pop in

Like this is not a very scummy post independently but the important thing to bear in mind here is that Dann never follows up on this ever. And, as I mentioned before, he later in the game just starts ignoring my posts altogether. Whenever I'm online I feel like he's not really that interested in interacting with me or talking about reads, even though at points like this he pretends like he cares. If there was actually followup this might be townie but instead this seems more like virtue signalling.

pedit: also bahahaha this whole "ooh how does fruit work let me bargain for it" the past 10 posts is so fucking fake

Tonally this is just very at odds with town Dann. As I said before, Dann never writes something is "so fucking fake" when I am asking a few basic points about how the core mechanic of the game works. As I observed before, in Merchant's Dance I was town and talked about mech extensively, but he pretends like this never happened at this point until he goes back and reevaluates later, until he then decides to drop that reevaluation when my read of him changes.

I'm still 100% down for a Krazy lynch

his posts at the end of D1 were disgusting

Why is saying "Dann is scum" "disgusting"? This is a brand of hyperbole that is very much not in line with how Dann plays.

The OMGUS reaction was extreme and you refused to engage with me beyond that

He defends his tone there with this post, but again, why is saying he is scum on tone "extreme"?

I'd still lynch Krazy over Mastina, but their interactions today town ping me for both of them.

I'm not really convinced my pops' scum slip case.

As a point of reference, I begin pushing mastina in 6320. As soon as I start pushing mastina, Dann backs off me. This is important for three reasons:
1) Dann is now arguing that it would be easy for me to fake my push on mastina. If this was the case, why did he in the moment feel like I was townie for it?
2) Dann moves away from discrediting me, which means that my push on mastina (town) will be more likely to gain traction
3) Since Dann is no longer pushing me, I'm now less likely to veer off of mastina back on to him -- but now he accuses me of not tunneling him during mastina. That's Trumpian shit right there lol

I should probably just stick to my gut on Krazy

VOTE: Krazy

But then despite apparently seeing townpings from me on mastina he goes back to me if it seems like I'm the more likely lynch just a few hundred posts later with no explanation beyond that of what actually prompts this reevaluation yet again.

mastina

- Like, I don't even care about the claim. There's definite problems with saying this slot will resolve via night actions, but that's fine because I'm pretty sure the slot is just town via day play? I understand why pops latched onto that one sentence as a slip, but as somewhat backwards of a thought process as it is it's something that town!mastina would actually think. Her reads and analysis have a consistent progression that doesn't read too forced—like how she's been scum reading PB, Pops, and the worst less today. And her case on Krazy is GOOD actually, but I'll get to that. She's just town? I haven't seen one good case against her and every post I read from her just reminds me more of Undertale.

Krazy

- can we just lynch here please. It's a slot Fire won't govern AND it's scummy. It's like the best of both worlds. Mastina's case is basically what I've been saying since late D1. Krazy's ISO is largely mechanics, something several people remarked was within his comfort zone as scum and was a large source of paranoia throughout MD so I know mastina isn't just pulling that out of her ass. I think someone like MariaR said there's nothing in Krazy's ISO why are we lynching this but like... That's exactly it. Town!Krazy doesn't have "nothing" in his ISO. I was town pinged by his interactions with Mastina at first today but his catchups since than have been too angery and too off tonally for me to believe this is town Krazy. I keep comparing to MD and I realize meta isn't everything, but the difference in tone feels like night and day. I think if this was town!Krazy I would be town reading him by now... and it's just not happening.

tl;dr: can we lynch krazy and stop voting the pops/tw/mastina vanity wagons

thank you for coming to my TED talk

I've cut this up so this thread doesn't break but let's consider this in light of 6622 -- it's like he can't remember what all he has said about me at this point or something tbh, which is something I can only imagine coming from a scum Dann.

Krazy, I'm not ignoring you, but responding to your posts is going to take more time than I have right now. So it's gonna have to wait until later.

He now doesn't have time to respond to the person he's saying we should "just lynch"

consider my vote simultaneously on krazy and chennis

Saying he's okay with either potential mislynch

[Firebringer]

@Wooper OUT OF MY MILLION HILARIOUS POSTS.

YOU CHOOSE A GAMMA POST!?!?!?!

THE FUCK....

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma questions aren't helpful for alignment sorting.
gamma not pushing his questions and badgering for answers or follow up on them tells me they are there to fill space. Which is what he would do as scum.

Like literally the only way i have known scum!gamma and town!gamma apart.

no offense to gamma

I don't think his questions are always especially useful as town either

I'm not sure how Gamma just staying afloat by filling space really pushes the game towards a scum victory here—we already went down this road with Chennisden, and this is LyLo now

Like this guy gets me despite less experience with me. It's not easy tracking responses to questions, especially when the thread is 60 (at the time I cared to seek them out) pages and rapidly expanding. And my recent questions have all been directed towards forming any lasting impressions of the game which I'm doing now but it seems like no one cared earlier to really help. Every just viewed me as a number I guess.

[Krazy]

If we lose this game on a Krazy Lynch after my other 2 big trs shot each other I might just bash my head into a wall

We're lynching Dann today

[Dannflor]

Maria who do you wanna lynch that's not PP?

[Firebringer]

Every just viewed me as a number I guess.

I am number 4.

[Gamma Emerald]

I LITERALLY CANT DEAL WITH THE LOWEST OF STANDARDS YOU PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO GIVE GAMMA A STUPID FUCKING TOWNREAD JUST BECAUSE HE ISNT TONALLY SCUM.

GUESS THE FUCK WHAT

I HAVE NEVER TONED READ HIM AS SCUM. EVER. I PRIMARILY TONEREAD PLAYERS. GAMMA HAS NO TONE TO READ.

How is tone involved AT ALL?

[Dannflor]

Like this is not a very scummy post independently but the important thing to bear in mind here is that Dann never follows up on this ever.

objectively false

[Wooper]

@Krazzy
simple question: where's this read been?

[Dannflor]

He defends his tone there with this post, but again, why is saying he is scum on tone "extreme"?

you literally did not respond to me beyond saying "lol dann scum"

like it's the exact same tone you're accusing me of and I don't know how else to take that besides you're scum who doesn't actually want to engage with me in good faith

[Dannflor]

@Krazzy
simple question: where's this read been?

dormant until I called him out for his lack of tunnel on me

[Gamma Emerald]

So you pushing such a point makes me doubt YOU are town.

hey look great

what other reads do you have

Don't trust Krazy
That's why I questioned Dunn's reads, he had Krazy bove the most confirmed player outside of himself (yes this means I know he replaced Katsuki)

[Gamma Emerald]

Like outside of possibly mastina what has Krazy pushed? Dann and me iirc, which have been conveniently timed and OMGUSy pushed all the way through as I have seen them.

[Dannflor]

Krazy.

You seem very confident that I would not say certain things as town.

I can assure you that I can and do use hyperbole and call things "disgusting" as town. Especially in a game like this where I've been slowly getting more and more fed up. I'd say in the dead thread of Vengeful Ghosts I acted similarly, and I was conf town.

Here, my reaction is based off of your refusal to actually engage with me. Even now, you come out with "lol Dann is hilarious as scum" instead of like, directing anything that I can respond to at all. You haven't been interested in sorting me ever since I started scum reading you it feels like.

[Wooper]

case on this page also feels as though it's fitting an agenda to your posting :#

[Krazy]

i am interested in what krazy in particular does with this

This is really important. Dann starts *really* stalling on his read on me once pops asks about whether it's potential Ank's guilty was actually on him.

I've been wondering about this a lot and given that both Dann argued to totally ignore the guilty and Mena argued that it should be in one of Ank's high townreads, I think it's plausible that Mena and Dann are both scum and they actually just didn't know which one the guilty was on. So they tried to kill the guilty altogether. But they've both been working to get themselves mutually townblocked and to discredit the idea the guilty is on them since then.

I'm with Titus on the Mastina/Krazy dichotomy

I'll hammer chennis if that wagon picks up more steam than this one

Gonna wait for Krazy to return to the thread / see what he does with Pops' crumb before I continue that 1v1

Continues to stall

and I don't really see Krazy as not scum

Slight discrediting

ok I will case Krazy tomorrow probably

it is possible I am wrong

Never happens

hi krazy I actually like this post from you ???

but can you please explain what a political reads list is because I am either too sleepy or dumb to comprehend that term

possibly both

Flips his read on me when mastina gains traction

im rereading Krazy's iso in merchant's dance right now and

I was expecting to be able to case him off that

but it's actually way more similar than I thought

In post 538, Dannflor wrote:
Also Krazy just posted two big posts again (about specific players in the game and not mechanics) with 0 reads

One of them was explaining why I don't want to form a read of a player before they have posted lol

Also, I feel like my 'early reads' last time hurt more than helped; while they may have made me townread, I didn't feel like they helped town naturally sort the player list, so I'm trying to be a little bit less pushy on my reads early on this time tbh

I even scum read him for similar reasons I started scum reading him here for

basically idk why but my memory of that game was warped and the tone matches too

bullshit meta to justify his flip on me after pushing me half-heartedly the entire game

Dann why do you think Ank chose "Buffy" among your tv choices?

Buffy is the best tv show ever created

I'm okay getting lynched for my Buffy read I will die on this hill

Actively downplaying the guilty

@Pine,

MariaR, Krazy, Pink Ball, PP, Iconeum

That's a short but not locked list

I like the Ico, PP, and PB solve

really ?? on the Maria scum reads and I'm warming up on Krazy

Continues his read shift dramatically after I don't finger him on the guilty

Okay dann, if mastina flips green where do we look

If mastina flips red where do we look

I think it’s probably flipping green given Pine’s hammer and ignoring subsequent posting. Doesn’t really change where I’m looking given I’ve never had Mastina in my solve. I would still be looking at about PB/Krazy/PP/Ico/Kats

If it’s actually a scum flip, I think that town spews Krazy a lot. And I would look at you for scum instead.

There’s probably a deeper wolf somewhere that I’m missing but I don’t think it behooves me to look for that right now

Sets himself up to flip his read on me again after a mastina townflip

i have some thoughts on that VC stuff already but ill bite my tongue for now

WHERE KRAZY

Just really random and awkward

VOTE: Krazy

UNVOTE:

HURT: krazy

So the question is where does this come from. For the entire previous dayphase Dann had been warming up on me etc. etc. But he has two reasons to flip his read on me with minimal explanation:
-mastina townflip which he was fine letting happen
-now Ali is scumreading me therefore he thinks he can get a consensus push on me

i want in

Something_Smart
Wooper

Gamma Emerald
MariaR
Firebringer

Pinkball

Menalque
Iconeum

Krazy
PenguinPower

I'm taking issue with all the tone reads just because of how easy it is to fake tone for bursts of posts

If you can point me to a consistently towny tone for all 500 pages I'll be both impressed and town read that but otherwise

Especially with Krazy: Mastina comes at him with "you would have replaced out if you were scum"

and it's not hard to come off as towny in response to that

How is this an organic progression from the previous day where he was recognizing townpings and finding meta explanations for why I might be likely town?

I also feel Krazy suddenly stopped tunneling me when I started tentatively feeling better about his slot after the mastina shit

Accuses ME of politically reading him when I have only wavered on him a few times, and also deliberately ignores the fact that he made several moves to soften his push on me when mastina/krazy was flaring up

Krazy you haven't approached my slot in good faith since the beginning of the game and that's really really not something I would expect from town!you

horseshit. you know it's worse than bullshit because it's not a bull.

me: Krazy's tunnel on me doesn't feel genuine

Krazy: LOL DANN DEEPWOLF BLAH BLAH

like you can't make this shit up

[/quote]

LOL

[Dannflor]

Like this is not a very scummy post independently but the important thing to bear in mind here is that Dann never follows up on this ever.

objectively false

btw

his reads list is what directly feeds into my initial scum read of Krazy

Since this is singleball I'm thinking Mena's town, when he was scum he had a very particular feel to his posts and I'm not getting that here. Thinking of Micc's Pokemon game where I was on my Pikachu account and he replaced into scum.

right okay that's one read

I definitely need more and I think it's unlike Krazy to be this shallow regardless of his activity

that's basically where I'm at re: Krazy, he's a player I really want to read but I haven't been able to yet this game

is it a spicy reads list?

didn't you want to talk to me about reads? what ever happened to that? what did you think of my last reads list?

I'll get to that in my post dw

it's unfortunate that you're probably scum this game

And then I case him based on his reads list and other posts he made in my big reads list.

Krazy is looking for reasons to scum read me at this point to justify his tunnel and actually just straight lying about our interactions now.

[Dannflor]

In post 8929, Dannflor wrote:
In post 8928, Krazy wrote:
Dann why do you think Ank chose "Buffy" among your tv choices?

Buffy is the best tv show ever created

In post 8942, Dannflor wrote:
I'm okay getting lynched for my Buffy read I will die on this hill


Actively downplaying the guilty

like what

why are these shit posts a part of your case

Why is it

A GUILTY

all of a sudden when you shrugged it off so many times before

[Krazy]

Here, my reaction is based off of your refusal to actually engage with me. Even now, you come out with "lol Dann is hilarious as scum" instead of like, directing anything that I can respond to at all. You haven't been interested in sorting me ever since I started scum reading you it feels like.

Sure except I don't interact with people to form reads, I analyze what they do and then I reach a conclusion. I might talk with people about the merit of a read but I have never been good at generating content with provocative questions or shit like that. It's the reason I hate playing day 1 as town. Whereas you have spent the game trying to present yourself as interactive when you never seem to actually care

[Dannflor]

Here, my reaction is based off of your refusal to actually engage with me. Even now, you come out with "lol Dann is hilarious as scum" instead of like, directing anything that I can respond to at all. You haven't been interested in sorting me ever since I started scum reading you it feels like.

Sure except I don't interact with people to form reads, I analyze what they do and then I reach a conclusion. I might talk with people about the merit of a read but I have never been good at generating content with provocative questions or shit like that. It's the reason I hate playing day 1 as town. Whereas you have spent the game trying to present yourself as interactive when you never seem to actually care

What about my ability to form reads?

That's how I form reads. You've not considered the possibility that I am town long enough to actually help me sort you. From your perspective, on the off chance that I am town, why wouldn't you want to help me see that you are town?

[Krazy]

@Krazzy
simple question: where's this read been?

You mean the read I was talking about when Alisae decided that I was scum and that I didn't want to play the game?