Mini 624 - Game Over!

[Hypatia]

VOTECOUNT:

Wumbo

imaginality
StrangerCoug
Kenfucius
Litral

Dark wingstalker

Wumbo
nhat

Litral

chenhsi

chenhsi

maxwellhouse

With 12 alive, it is 7 to lynch.

[StrangerCoug]

Lynch minus one. That means that, unless somebody unvotes, the next vote on that person kills him or her.

Oh, always wondered what that meant. Well, I wasn't counting when I voted, my mistake.

I see its at l-1 again, and i'm not 100% sure wumbo is scum, i just wanted to rattle his cage abit, so

unvote

That was your reason for your vote in the first place!? xP

Unvote: Wumbo
Vote: Dark wingstalker

This puts Wumbo at L-4, by the way. He was at L-3 before this post.

[maxwellhouse]

unvote chenhsi

i just mainly came here to unvote chenhsi. sorry about the delay.

however, major suspicions on dark wingstalker as well. you seemed overeager to jump on wumbo when he did come out and talk. true, he probably shouldn't have claimed innocent, but i think that was just bad tactics.

dark wingstalker bothered me a bit with this...

Out of chenhsi and wumbo, wumbo's certainly coming off the scummier.

i don't think anyone ever claimed chenhsi scum. or wumbo really at this point either. we just wanted to pressure vote so they would talk.

imaginality- i think your bolding is going a little too far. =P even if wumbo is mafia, i think that would have been a straight up lie instead of a technicality.

[imaginality]

Lynch minus one. That means that, unless somebody unvotes, the next vote on that person kills him or her.

Oh, always wondered what that meant. Well, I wasn't counting when I voted, my mistake.

This seems very very worrying. Not counting? So you didn't know if you might already be lynching him with your vote, but were happy to throw it on anyhow?

Unvote; vote Dark wingstalker

[Dark wingstalker]

Well, it was 7 to lynch, and i thought mine was the fifth vote. People were voting both Chenhsi and Wumbo, and I thought wumbo looked scummier. I didnt think he was scum, so I thought it would get him to talk more, without having to hang him.

Then i unvoted when i realised that a member of the mafia could hammer his bandwagon easily, Which they didnt do. So if/when you lynch me and i turn up clean, you should look at the people already on Wumbo's bandwagon.

I'd notch it up to forum inexperience, i'm used to play epic mafia, and irc mafia, where its alot easier to keep track of votes. I apolagise, I'll pay more attention in future.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, it was 7 to lynch, and i thought mine was the fifth vote. People were voting both Chenhsi and Wumbo, and I thought wumbo looked scummier. I didnt think he was scum, so I thought it would get him to talk more, without having to hang him.

Then i unvoted when i realised that a member of the mafia could hammer his bandwagon easily, Which they didnt do. So if/when you lynch me and i turn up clean, you should look at the people already on Wumbo's bandwagon.

I'd notch it up to forum inexperience, i'm used to play epic mafia, and irc mafia, where its alot easier to keep track of votes. I apolagise, I'll pay more attention in future.

The newbie card. Nice.

[Tom]

I'm back from being V/LA over the July 4th weekend.

The only thing remotely close to a tiger that I see is Tom.

Tee Eye Double Guh Err, that spells JOKER. Wait, uhh...

I don't support the lynch of Dark wingstalker, and I don't understand why you all are voting for him. Because he counted L-1 wrong or something?

I do support the lynch of McCloud, not because of his initial inactivity, but because of his reactions to it. He was quick to claim vanilla townie when there was minimal pressure on him, then when the pressure continued to pile he started pointing fingers at everyone. =/

vote: McCloud

[Tom]

okay LOL big mixup here. xD sorry for the confusion

Mod

, could you please replace every "McCloud" that I said with "Wumbo"? I know him irl as McCloud so I made a little mistake there.

just to be clear, im

unvote vote: Wumbo

I need sleep.

[imaginality]

Well, it was 7 to lynch, and i thought mine was the fifth vote. People were voting both Chenhsi and Wumbo, and I thought wumbo looked scummier. I didnt think he was scum, so I thought it would get him to talk more, without having to hang him.

Then i unvoted when i realised that a member of the mafia could hammer his bandwagon easily, Which they didnt do.

In the last sentence above, you make it sound like:

(a) you realised your mistake quickly
(b) you unvoted Wumbo when he was at L-1

The timeline suggests otherwise:

You voted Wumbo (to L-1): Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:32 am (post 97)

You questioned Wumbo again: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:44 pm (post 110)

nhat unvoted Wumbo (L-2): Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:13 pm (post 111)
And voted you for putting Wumbo at L-1.

geraintm unvoted Wumbo (L-3): Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:56 pm (post 119)

Litral voted Wumbo (L-2): Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:46 pm (post 121)

You unvoted Wumbo (L-3): Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:43 am (post 124)

You didn't unvote Wumbo until 10 hours after nhat already unvoted Wumbo and challenged you over your vote, by which time 15 hours and 27 posts had gone by since you voted him.

[Dark wingstalker]

I thought it was vote 5, till i was told i was at L-1 which i asked for clarification on what that was.

Then, when i was informed what lynch 1 was, i unvoted. Time is not a valid defence on Forum Mafia.

[Dark wingstalker]

I meant valid reason.

[imaginality]

Sure you did.

[Litral]

unvote

Lots of pretty interesting posts we have here.

but lurking isn't always necessarily a mafia thing to do. sometimes you just don't know what to say.

Who are you trying to protect?

FoS - maxwellhouse

Isn't it better to see for yourself who he is trying to protect? If suspicion is to be based on this, then at least equal suspicion should be given to the lurkers at that time, which you didn't seem to identify.

Ok, I am saying something now...

Sorry, kind of forgot that this was here...

So currently, from what I understand, the current argument is around lurking? I don't really have anything to contribute about lurking, me not being experienced enough to know whether that is good or bad...

There isn't much to talk about is there?

Lurking is bad as it denies the town information. Sure, all the mafia can fake town, but there's always a difference between how genuine they are. I think there is much to talk about.

Out of chenhsi and wumbo, wumbo's certainly coming off the scummier.

Its day one however, I cant say that lurking because there isnt anything to talk about is really a great offence. But he's coming off scummy, so chances are i'll vote if he doesnt come up with a decent defence in the next say.. 12 hours or so.

Why the tunnel vision?

my aforementioned status is that way because even if I die, the town still has a chance to win. Information is also crucial for them to win.

Information doesn't particularly help the town if it means people claiming vanilla townie when there are only a couple of votes on them, to help the mafia narrow down who the power roles are.

Information in the way of posts discussing, challenging, arguing, making a case against someone, pointing out noteworthy reactions, etc. and so on, is useful, but for someone who (rightly) claims 'information is crucial for [town] to win', you weren't exactly contributing much along those lines earlier.

Also, I'm slightly intrigued by your phrasing: "...even if I die, the town still has a chance to win. Information is also crucial for

them

to win," (my highlight) rather than "...for

us

to win."

IGMEOY

. A sudden discussion of theory seems to be avoiding the issue of whether to lynch Wumbo or not, or whether to look at any of the people who voted him, and it seems to be rather out of the blue if we take it in context. Your vote was on Wumbo at that time. Slightly bad feeling about this.

vote: chenhsi

. I don't like how he's lurking so much and getting off so easily for this. I feel that Day One, scum usually do the lurk thing and avoid the big noisy discussion (it's easy). By this principle I think my vote is better.

I get town vibes out of Wumbo's final defenses after careful reading, which is why I don't feel like lynching him any more. But for future reference, if anyone else claims blue out of the blue (cough), I'll consider him anti-town...

I don't get enough scum vibes from DWS to justify a vote.

[geraintm]

Then i unvoted when i realised that a member of the mafia could hammer his bandwagon easily, Which they didnt do. So if/when you lynch me and i turn up clean, you should look at the people already on Wumbo's bandwagon.

hammering and mafia just dones't work anymore. just too obvious

two thoughts

nhat - you seem way too eager to jump around. your posts have been an FOS on maxwell, an explnation of inactivity, vote wumbo, and day later a vote on dark.

chensi - you better start posting soon

[nhat]

nhat - you seem way too eager to jump around. your posts have been an FOS on maxwell, an explnation of inactivity, vote wumbo, and day later a vote on dark.

Just calling it as I see it. The FoS was to get maxwellhouse talking, and my votes have explanations.

[geraintm]

Indeed I do.

unvote: Tom

btw. Lulz phase over, serious business now.

You said this and did nothing in terms of serious business. I'm okay hopping on this wagon.

unvote

vote - wumbo

unvote

vote - dark wingstalker

We wanted pressure, you wanted to make an easy lynch.

yeah, you had great reasons...well, i dont think they were that great, more oppotunistic

[nhat]

^^^^^^Except you just cut out like 7/8ths of my explanation for dark wingstalker's vote. What's up with that?

[imaginality]

Information doesn't particularly help the town if it means people claiming vanilla townie when there are only a couple of votes on them, to help the mafia narrow down who the power roles are.

Information in the way of posts discussing, challenging, arguing, making a case against someone, pointing out noteworthy reactions, etc. and so on, is useful, but for someone who (rightly) claims 'information is crucial for [town] to win', you weren't exactly contributing much along those lines earlier.

IGMEOY. A sudden discussion of theory seems to be avoiding the issue of whether to lynch Wumbo or not, or whether to look at any of the people who voted him, and it seems to be rather out of the blue if we take it in context. Your vote was on Wumbo at that time. Slightly bad feeling about this.

It was hardly out of the blue. It followed this exchange:

and if you are a vanilla townie, why claim it so damn early?

And dark wingstalker, my aforementioned status is that way because even if I die, the town still has a chance to win. Information is also crucial for them to win.

I was pointing out that early claims don't help town, and that Wumbo hadn't contributed much other information at that point, to question Wumbo's comments quoted above. While my post was perhaps slightly indirect, it was supporting my vote on Wumbo.

[Kenfucius]

unvote

Didn't figure for that to push so close to lynch that fast.

I don't entirely dislike the Wumbo wagon (that is kinda fun if you say it aloud, geraintm), but I think that may be based on playstyle differences as much as anything else. But hey, if he wants to have a dig at me for reaction fishing, that's fine. It was that type of fishing that turned the inactive thread he was disparaging earlier into a relatively active one.

Concerning DWS, time may not be a valid reason for an attack, but what gets me is that while you may not have known what L-1 meant, surely that along with the inference in the statement "claim or die" in the exact same post must have made some bells go off.

Taken seperately, one might be jargon you don't get, and the other might just be some dramatic phrasing, but taken together and linked, it seems an easy leap to make to me.

I'm not willing to vote on that basis, yet.

FoS: DWS

Not liking geraintm's recent attack on nhat, either, and nhat called the reason. Chopping away part of a quoted post is something I don't like, it feels like an attempt at misrepresentation.

IGMEOY: geraintm

MOD:

By my count, it's been closing in on 5 days since chehnsi posted, perhaps a prod would be in order?

[geraintm]

^^^^^^Except you just cut out like 7/8ths of my explanation for dark wingstalker's vote. What's up with that?

unvote

vote - dark wingstalker

Certainly Wumbo's inaction after his serious business comment rubbed me the wrong way, and the bandwagon developed from there, but wingstalker, was it really called for to put him at L-1? I played in a game where a townie hammered himself just because, and that was wack. Why risk it? And the "I'm gonna give you 12 hours to respond" ultimatum is lousy for an L-1 vote. In my experience, people who do this can just say that the response was insufficient, knowing good and well that they've decided beforehand to vote for the person. We wanted pressure, you wanted to make an easy lynch.

ok, thats the whole quote. the bit about what happened in another game i didnt think was important to include. i only included the last line because i thought it was cheap of you to say that about dark when i felt you were looking for one yourself

i included all of the post where you voted for wumbo, was that alright? the main part of my argument against you was that you fosed, voted, voted so quickly. i didn't include any quotes when i said that first.
"calling it as you see it" isnt a god enough excise for me i am afraid

[Litral]

Imaginality, it's not, well, entirely out of context, it just seems that a discussion of theory felt a bit off at that point. Just an IGMEOY.

[Dark wingstalker]

discussion has slowed down, Anyone got any thoughts kicking around?

I'm eager to get a discussion going again, for obvious reasons

[StrangerCoug]

Agreed, and it's been too long in my opinion since I last posted.

I do feel your defending imaginality's case against you is in order, Dark wingstalker, if you're looking for something to talk about.

[Dark wingstalker]

Ask, and ye shall receive:

In the last sentence above, you make it sound like:

(a) you realised your mistake quickly
(b) you unvoted Wumbo when he was at L-1

This is basically what happened, However, I was unawares what constituted "Claim or die", as where I usually play, on another forums, Claim or dies are being thrown around from about 3 to lynch. and when I was informed what L-1 was, it all clicked into place, and I unvoted.

The timeline suggests otherwise:
You didn't unvote Wumbo until 10 hours after nhat already unvoted Wumbo and challenged you over your vote, by which time 15 hours and 27 posts had gone by since you voted him.

Again, i didnt have computer access, and when I got around to checking the computer and saw what l-1 constitued, I quickly unvoted. Regrettably, I'm an EU player and i work shifts, so sometimes it can be up to 24 hours before i get a chance to sit at a PC.

I hope this answers Imaginalitys claim a little better then my initial post, but i'd be glad to answer any other questions you might have.

[imaginality]

Your explanation still doesn't ring true to me. Two reasons in particular: firstly, because you're still making it sound like you unvoted because Wumbo was at L-1:

Then i unvoted when i realised that a member of the mafia could hammer his bandwagon easily, Which they didnt do.

when I was informed what L-1 was, it all clicked into place, and I unvoted.

when in fact, geraintm had already unvoted (post 119) so Wumbo was at L-2. So your reason for unvoting can't have been because you realised Wumbo was at L-1, since he

wasn't

any more by that time, unless you miscounted again...


Secondly, in posts 102 and 107 Wumbo had made ample reference to being at L-1, talking about how "moving it up to L-1" was silly, suggesting we should "seriously look into any of the 6 who put a vote on," telling people not to put the hammer vote on him without good reason, etc. but when you responded to those posts in post 110, you simply continued to put the pressure on him. You'd clearly had the chance to read those posts of his, whatever time zone you're in, since you

responded

to them, but you didn't unvote Wumbo then.

Now, I would have been more inclined to believe you if you'd said that you didn't realise the

significance

of L-1 (i.e. how easy it is for maf to hammer) and that in retrospect you see you cast that vote too lightly, but given the above point, I have a much harder time believing that you didn't

know

Wumbo was at L-1.