Mini 624 - Game Over!

[nhat]

In addition, FoS: nhat until he gives a reason for his L-2 vote.

Posts 223 and 240. Seriously, do you even bother to read my posts before going after me? This is the second time you take action against me when my explanations are plainly there. I let it slide the first time, but two times?

I'm going to get some sleep, more on this tomorrow.

Oh, also

unvote

Again, more on this tomorrow.

[nhat]

I am a COP...

I win when all threats to the town are dead...

Just saw this.....what the fuck? There's no words to truly communicate how much you blow at this game. Find a new hobby to take up.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote: chenhsi
Un-FoS: nhat

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP:

This is the second time you take action against me when my explanations are plainly there. I let it slide the first time, but two times.

I'm unfortunately the kind of person who has to be told and reminded of everything. Your giving post numbers are fine since they're reference points to me.

[Litral]

Gah...

unvote

26th July is the deadline. Reading more tomorrow.

[Cass]

Joy. I was afraid of that. I'm inclined to believe it, too. I suggest that from now on we ignore chen, like he ignores us, until he says something interesting or someone counterclaims. That's what I'm going to do.

Vote: Wumbo

Because he's being an idiot, and one idiot per game is more than enough.

[Inspector Godot]

Gah, this is where my inexperience annoys me. I guess I'll

Unvote Chenhsi

but I'd really like to see you pick up the pace. We have six days left until we reach the deadline. I guess it's time for a reread.

[imaginality]

Arrrgh... chenhsi...

Let's lynch chenhsi anyway. We don't need a cop to win this game.

(Just joking about lynching him, I hasten to add. Though the frustration is real. )

@ chenhsi... being a cop does not give you license to contribute absolutely nothing to the discussion safe in the knowledge that if you come under pressure you can claim and avoid being lynched. You could at least have taken advantage of the questions I threw your way instead of pretty much inviting us to wagon you and force you to claim.

unvote

(though it would be so sweet to see a cop counterclaim right now...)


So... okay, there is a deadline fast approaching and I'm not keen to see day 1 end without a lynch.I stand by my suspicions of Dark wingstalker, but after a re-read, I am also highly suspicious of Litral.

Reading Litral's posts, the following things stood out to me:

36. Voted Tom, no reason given
38. After Stranger Coug voted him (post 37), gave a reason for his vote:

Because Tom suggested that we kill Godot, and yet he did not put on a vote himself, or give reasons.

If Litral thinks not giving a reason for a vote is suspicious, why didn't he give a reason for his vote? Seems more likely he thought of this as a justification for his vote after the fact.

121. votes Wumbo (back up to L-2) because:

anyone vanilla townie who has claimed is completely useless to the town, and should be lynched, unless there is a far better candidate.

Aside from whether this is a good argument, I think it's pretty interesting that he made absolutely no comment on the Dark wingstalker L-1 vote shenanigans, which was breaking news at the time he posted. Instead he tried to keep the Wumbo wagon alive with his vote.

137. Here Litral unvotes Wumbo and votes chenhsi, saying:

I get town vibes out of Wumbo's final defenses after careful reading, which is why I don't feel like lynching him any more.

Yet Litral was happy to vote Wumbo in post 121, and Wumbo hadn't posted since then. It seems more likely to me that Litral realised the Wumbo wagon had run out of steam, so he claimed to have changed your views after a careful reread of his posts. (And if he

is

telling the truth, then shouldn't he have read Wumbo's posts carefully

before

voting him to L-2?)

183. Litral drops in to say:

Although I'm attentive, I'm not going to bother with this discussion.

I find this pretty interesting because it heightens my suspicion that

both

Dark wingstalker

and

Litral may be scum together. In post 121 Litral ignored the attacks on DWS's vote, in post 137 he only questioned him slightly ("Why the tunnel vision?"), and now he stays clear of the fray completely. I think this makes a lot of sense if DWS is Litral's scum buddy and Litral wants to avoid facing the dilemma of either obviously defending DWS (which could put him under suspicion if DWS is outed as scum later), or adding to the attack him (which at that point could have led to a DWS lynch).

203. Defends DWS's mistakes as unintentional:

while DWS did seem to misinterpret and misspeak at times, those misinterpretations are not meant to be malicious or anti-town, and to me, not intentional.

206, 209, 212, 216. Defends his argument that lynching lurkers is a good strategy. Worth noting though, in 216 Litral says:

You're saying my strategy is to lynch every lurker. First of all, it's pretty sad if there are enough lurkers to lynch all the way to endgame, and second of all, I'm saying that we should lynch (or at least vote) chenhsi, who while suspicious (suggesting that there is nothing at all to talk about and nothing questionable at all), has the added benefit for lynching of being a lurker.

But he used the same argument to push for a lynch on Wumbo, so it does seem that the lurkiness is the reason for Litral targeting them, not an 'added benefit'.

246. Not sure why but this post also seems slightly off, maybe because of its WIFOMish flavour:

On the other hand: if you're going to claim, claim doc. Then the scum can kill you if we don't.

Not any more they will.

Given the specific points I've mentioned, as well as the general 'feel' of his posts/play so far, I feel justified in voting Litral:

vote Litral

Aside from Litral, I'm also fine with a Dark wingstalker lynch if there's more chance of us agreeing on it by deadline, and I'm open to being persuaded if anyone else wants to make a case against someone else. (Cass, at the moment I'm not convinced that Wumbo is a good lynch, mainly because if I'm right about Litral and Dark wingstalker being scum, it follows that Wumbo is pretty likely to be town.)

[Dark wingstalker]

Unvote

Damnit chenshi, You just had to be an important powerrole. I do assume you'll inform us if you get any guilty reports, rather then just lurking away in the corner?? You came very very close to getting yourself lynched on day 1, and that woulda screwed that game up for us.

Regarding the case against Litral, I'd far rather lynch someone that was not contributing, Nhat has come foward and started to play alot more, which is good, Especially now he's not trying to hang me from the nearest tree, And cass is a more then able replacement for tom.

This leaves us with our two lurkers, Wumbo, and Chenshi. Chenshi is claimed cop, so we cant really lynch him, until he breaks our trust by failing to clear himself, and Wumbo is.. well, I dont think he's scum, but i wouldnt trust my gut.

I think the thread is due a re-read before i cast my next vote, but i just this minute got home from a 15 hour shift, and my eyes feel like sandpaper. Tommorow i'll take another go.

[chenhsi]

Of course, I do post if I find anything interesting...

[StrangerCoug]

@ chenhsi... being a cop does not give you license to contribute absolutely nothing to the discussion safe in the knowledge that if you come under pressure you can claim and avoid being lynched. You could at least have taken advantage of the questions I threw your way instead of pretty much inviting us to wagon you and force you to claim.

unvote

(though it would be so sweet to see a cop counterclaim right now...)

It would be interesting xD

So... okay, there is a deadline fast approaching and I'm not keen to see day 1 end without a lynch.I stand by my suspicions of Dark wingstalker, but after a re-read, I am also highly suspicious of Litral.

Reading Litral's posts, the following things stood out to me:

36. Voted Tom, no reason given
38. After Stranger Coug voted him (post 37), gave a reason for his vote:

Because Tom suggested that we kill Godot, and yet he did not put on a vote himself, or give reasons.

If Litral thinks not giving a reason for a vote is suspicious, why didn't he give a reason for his vote? Seems more likely he thought of this as a justification for his vote after the fact.

Good question. I also remember Tom suggesting killing Inspector Godot, but nothing else from his posts about him.

121. votes Wumbo (back up to L-2) because:

anyone vanilla townie who has claimed is completely useless to the town, and should be lynched, unless there is a far better candidate.

Aside from whether this is a good argument, I think it's pretty interesting that he made absolutely no comment on the Dark wingstalker L-1 vote shenanigans, which was breaking news at the time he posted. Instead he tried to keep the Wumbo wagon alive with his vote.

Hmm. I have to go back and check this.

137. Here Litral unvotes Wumbo and votes chenhsi, saying:

I get town vibes out of Wumbo's final defenses after careful reading, which is why I don't feel like lynching him any more.

Yet Litral was happy to vote Wumbo in post 121, and Wumbo hadn't posted since then. It seems more likely to me that Litral realised the Wumbo wagon had run out of steam, so he claimed to have changed your views after a careful reread of his posts. (And if he

is

telling the truth, then shouldn't he have read Wumbo's posts carefully

before

voting him to L-2?)

Agreed. Litral seems to have completely withdrawn from actual scumhunting here.

183. Litral drops in to say:

Although I'm attentive, I'm not going to bother with this discussion.

I find this pretty interesting because it heightens my suspicion that

both

Dark wingstalker

and

Litral may be scum together. In post 121 Litral ignored the attacks on DWS's vote, in post 137 he only questioned him slightly ("Why the tunnel vision?"), and now he stays clear of the fray completely. I think this makes a lot of sense if DWS is Litral's scum buddy and Litral wants to avoid facing the dilemma of either obviously defending DWS (which could put him under suspicion if DWS is outed as scum later), or adding to the attack him (which at that point could have led to a DWS lynch).

Interesting catch-22 you bring up. What gets me here, and I don't know whether I'm getting this from you or Litral, is that nothing here mentions the possibility of Litral attempting to bus Dark wingstalker. It may be something the former is afraid to do, but I can't read minds.

203. Defends DWS's mistakes as unintentional:

while DWS did seem to misinterpret and misspeak at times, those misinterpretations are not meant to be malicious or anti-town, and to me, not intentional.

Good point, actually. How does Litral know this if he and DWS are not scum together?

206, 209, 212, 216. Defends his argument that lynching lurkers is a good strategy. Worth noting though, in 216 Litral says:

You're saying my strategy is to lynch every lurker. First of all, it's pretty sad if there are enough lurkers to lynch all the way to endgame, and second of all, I'm saying that we should lynch (or at least vote) chenhsi, who while suspicious (suggesting that there is nothing at all to talk about and nothing questionable at all), has the added benefit for lynching of being a lurker.

But he used the same argument to push for a lynch on Wumbo, so it does seem that the lurkiness is the reason for Litral targeting them, not an 'added benefit'.

Where is this argument?

246. Not sure why but this post also seems slightly off, maybe because of its WIFOMish flavour:

On the other hand: if you're going to claim, claim doc. Then the scum can kill you if we don't.

Not any more they will.

Now that you bring it up, something's telling me that Litral is insinuating something. Again, I can't read minds. If Litral flips scum, this would be something good to look at.

Aside from Litral, I'm also fine with a Dark wingstalker lynch if there's more chance of us agreeing on it by deadline, and I'm open to being persuaded if anyone else wants to make a case against someone else. (Cass, at the moment I'm not convinced that Wumbo is a good lynch, mainly because if I'm right about Litral and Dark wingstalker being scum, it follows that Wumbo is pretty likely to be town.)

I've been pushing pretty actively for a Dark wingstalker lynch, too, and I remember mentioning his weak L-1 vote reason and the newbie card. I think his later posts clean up his act a little bit, but I'm still pretty sure he's scum. Right now I'm happy to go with either. If chenhsi gets counterclaimed, I'll consider lynching him too.

Of course, I do post if I find anything interesting...

You say you're the cop, yet nothing in these 11 pages interests you!?

[Wumbo]

Vote: Wumbo Because he's being an idiot, and one idiot per game is more than enough.

Ahahaha..oohooohhohoho...hehehehehe...

Your ad hominem amuses me.

I've done nothing to warrant an attack on my character, good sir. And I would suggest you refrain from making such attacks, as they're rather trite and offer no real help to the game.

Now, compose yourself and explain your vote.

[imaginality]

206, 209, 212, 216. Defends his argument that lynching lurkers is a good strategy. Worth noting though, in 216 Litral says:

You're saying my strategy is to lynch every lurker. First of all, it's pretty sad if there are enough lurkers to lynch all the way to endgame, and second of all, I'm saying that we should lynch (or at least vote) chenhsi, who while suspicious (suggesting that there is nothing at all to talk about and nothing questionable at all), has the added benefit for lynching of being a lurker.

But he used the same argument to push for a lynch on Wumbo, so it does seem that the lurkiness is the reason for Litral targeting them, not an 'added benefit'.

Where is this argument?

Oops, my bad; I think when I wrote that I was thinking of his post 137, but of course that's when he voted chenhsi. So I retract that argument and accept that his reason for voting chenhsi doesn't contradict his reason for voting Wumbo, though I think that his actual argument for voting Wumbo in post 121 ("lynch anyone claiming vanilla unless there's a far better candidate"), combined with the lack of comment on DWS in that post remains suspicious. Also, on a re-read, the timing of his vote on chenhsi in post 137 could very well be an attempt to shift pressure away from DWS and onto another lurker.

[nhat]

Can we just vote to have chenhsi replaced? That'd be hawt.

Strangercoug, pretty much everything that I said to DWS about being on the ball can apply to you, too. Placing votes and such based on riddled with sheer oversight distracts from the issues and clutters the thread.

DWS, you're still not off the hook yet, either as far as I'm concerned.

[Cass]

@Wumbo: why yes, it's ad hominem - I don't like to be on a team with someone who finds killing himself the height of amusement. Sue me. (And if you're not on my team, there's no harm in lynching you anyway...) [sarcasm]I also spot a contradiction: you seemed to really enjoy getting wagoned the first time, and now you're suddenly complaining??[/sarcasm]

@imaginality: I agree. I think, unfortunately, Wumbo is most likely town as well. That vote was mostly a way to vent some frustration. For now, I'll ignore Wumbo as well.

---

I like the case against DWS + Litral. However, after his last post, I'd prefer to lynch DWS first. If he flips scum, Litral will look pretty bad...

DWS:

Damnit chenshi, You just had to be an important powerrole. I do assume you'll inform us if you get any guilty reports, rather then just lurking away in the corner?? You came very very close to getting yourself lynched on day 1, and that woulda screwed that game up for us.

Does not sound sincere to me. Also, cop claiming D1 is not much better than getting lynched, in terms of screwing up the game.

Chenshi is claimed cop, so we cant really lynch him, until he breaks our trust by failing to clear himself,

I think this might hint at the scum having a roleblocker, which would make our cop completely useless.
He still wants to lynch lurkers, the safe choice for scum. He is careful not to hop on the Wumbo-wagon yet (well, if you would call my vote a wagon), but perhaps he had not seen that one yet.

unvote
Vote: DarkWingStalker

[geraintm]

ok, been away over the weekend and lots has happened. so we have a claimed cop and in another game i am in, cougar has claimed doc so that makes this game really confusing for me
will write more later

[nhat]

Can we get a prod for maxwellhouse?

[geraintm]

Geraintm: Seems to be lurking in plain sight, I don't get much of a read on him. Lot's of posts with mainly very little content. He said one thing that rings alarm bells:

imaginality - i really don'tlike people putting u lists of questions for others to answer. i think t makes a player look like they are participating in a game when all they are doing is trying to force others to talk and incrimate themselves. you should at least answer the questions yourself

Forcing people to talk is good. Why would a townie be afraid of incriminating himself? This could also be a defense of Chenhsi. (Who doesn't deserve one.) Quite scummy.

sorry, did i not make myself clear
what i dont like is players making posts where they go "Hey cass, who do you think is scummy then at the moment? Who would you vote for?"
and they don't actually write anything of substance themselves. it is ok if the person is contributing but if they are just filling their posts with getting others to talk whilst not saying anything themselves, then that is bad.
and i know townies shouldnt have anything to fear, but i think you'll find scum are quiet good at twisting innocuous things into something.

I don't believe that lurking is necessarily a bad thing, especially on a day 1 situation. I mean, I lurked for a little while, and look where that got me. So for now I'll stay off Chenhsi's back unless something happens.

disagree, lurking is bad.a lways has been, always will be. there is a difference between lurking and staying under teh radar perhaps, but lurking is bad.

No, Chen, I don't want you to claim. Knowing you have a PR would make this only ten times as frustrating. How about you ask for replacement instead? Someone who'll actually do some work for whichever team (s)he's on. Jeeze.

On the other hand: if you're going to claim, claim doc. Then the scum can kill you if we don't.

don't ike thispost
firstly, you can't just ask people to drop a game cause you dont like playing with them

and the whole claim doc thing, just urgh. telling people what to claim? it only likemakes sense if you are the doc and wanted to counter claim immediatly!

chensi, your play hasb't been good. having such an important role, you shouldn't be getting yourself into posistion where you have to claim. just bad play to get yourself under so much pressure. you'll llikely cripple the game

[Dark wingstalker]

DWS:

Damnit chenshi, You just had to be an important powerrole. I do assume you'll inform us if you get any guilty reports, rather then just lurking away in the corner?? You came very very close to getting yourself lynched on day 1, and that woulda screwed that game up for us.

Does not sound sincere to me. Also, cop claiming D1 is not much better than getting lynched, in terms of screwing up the game.

I remain hopeful that theres a Doctor in this set up somewhere, and if there is, hopefully he or indeed she, would protect him, Its nowhere near as bad as lynching the cop on day 1.

Chenshi is claimed cop, so we cant really lynch him, until he breaks our trust by failing to clear himself,

I think this might hint at the scum having a roleblocker, which would make our cop completely useless.

While theres a chance there is a mafia roleblocker, theres also a chance we have

no

cop in the set up. A failure to clear himself, in my mind, is if he says someone is clear, and they are proven to be mafia, then chenshi is in a world of fun.


[quote="cass"
He still wants to lynch lurkers, the safe choice for scum. He is careful not to hop on the Wumbo-wagon yet (well, if you would call my vote a wagon), but perhaps he had not seen that one yet.[/quote]

Why vote wumbo? He's clearly town, just lurking. Point me towards where i specifically said i wanted to lynch town, i just pointed out the two of them were lurking, and contributing less to the game then other players. At no point did i suggest a lynch.

This leaves us with our two lurkers, Wumbo, and Chenshi. Chenshi is claimed cop, so we cant really lynch him, until he breaks our trust by failing to clear himself, and Wumbo is.. well, I dont think he's scum, but i wouldnt trust my gut.

Man, i'm really trying to stir up that lynch. The top comment was slightly sarcastic, I was irritated that chenshi, someone so useless to the town so far, has become basically, our focal point.

unvote
Vote: DarkWingStalker

[/quote]

[Dark wingstalker]

whoops, my quote just voted myself.

Unvote

Also, the case on litral?? I dont think it really stands up, but i did attack him somewhat during my bandwagon. While i was being attacked, litral brought wumbo to l-2. I'll fig up the post: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 92#1149292

I dont have a great deal else to say on the matter, He's coming off as scummy, but as i've since been proven to be totally new at this sort of thing, I'm not trusting my gut at the moment.

[Cass]

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense. That was just me being really annoyed that Chen was obviously about to claim a PR and so make the game a lot harder for us to win :p Also just maybe, if he had actually claimed doc, the scum would have had some doubt whether he really was the doc, creating a bit of wifom for them.
But, alas, he did what I feared he would do...

I propose kenfucius and maxwellhouse show up. It would be nice if one of you could counterclaim, kthx.

[Cass]

EBWOP: my post above was in reply to Geraintm

[geraintm]

sorry cass, what were yuo replying to?

[Cass]

Your comment on my silly 'claim doc if you have to claim' post. My apologies for making things confusing.

[geraintm]

it wasn't that it was confusing, i just couldn't see teh strategy behind it, i couldnt understand your thinking. just seemed bad play at best, more likely anti-town .