Newbie 655: Zeroville. (Game Over!)

[M4yhem]

I got it.

Hello New People!

[M4yhem]

What no vote?

Vote:J_Slr

for hesitancy.

First vote!

Should be fun.

[M4yhem]

what is a sane cop?

A cop that actually work the way it should.
Gets guiltys on mafia and innocent on town.

It's called 'sane' because there are other types of cop that get messed up results. But you won't see those in a newbie.

Helpful?

[M4yhem]

The guy you're voting for.

If you look at the titles under peoples names, that will help you see who is what in the future. It changes as your post count goes up. It goes townsperson--> Goon--> Mafia scum.

Some people have custom titles. They've been around for a while and done something memorable.

[M4yhem]

Nothing says scum like a random vote, Tony.

False.

99% of games start with a random voting stage, which

everybody

participates in because it's a good way to start conversation.

unvote, Vote: The Pope's Tiara

Love your username btw.

[M4yhem]

What happens in the other 1% of games?

Depends.

Some games start with night; the next morning starts with trying to decide who might have killed whoever's dead. Sometimes a cop gets a guilty on the first night and the next day is a series of votes for the same person.

Some games with unusual features start with everyone talking about the setup and how to make use of it.

Some games, like Bad Idea Mafia start with someone being shot in the face.

There's usually at least one random vote in every game though.

I agree with WhereisTony.

[M4yhem]

Michel- I have never been able to find mafia by the way people confirm. That's some impressive scumhunting abilities you have there.

I didn't realise whereistony had three votes. That's a little unwise.

Jon, if you want to make a diagram, that would be cool.

I'm wondering where Yuu is. Yuu, if you see this, don’t be shy, say hi!

Erg0

: Has hohum confirmed yet? Thank you.

quote="J_Slr"]I know, though I am generally inclined to vote for people that have not pitched or later in the game choose to lurk![/quote]

I’m going to like playing with you.

[M4yhem]

No comment on me voting you, Tiara?

[M4yhem]

Oh my god.

1. There's more chance statistically of you being scum than cop. Also, implying that you might be cop is a dodgy defense and puts the town in danger because people's reactions to your suggestion can help scum find the real cop.

2. Are you serious?
Firstly, the mod is already taking care of the hohum problem. Trust Erg0, he will look after us.
Second, we have no idea if hohum is scum or not because we have nothing to go on. You're basically saying we should take a wild stab in the dark and kill someone who can't defend themselves...for the sake of people's feelings?
That's not how the game works. If you'd looked careful at the other players and then worked out hohum was scum by a process of elimination that'd be fine but as it is your vote is baseless and I feel very happy voting you.

[M4yhem]

For the record, Pope's, it's a bad idea to suggest no lynch without a good reason. In a normal game, that would get you quite a lot of attention.

I'm really not sure what to make of you at the moment but it would really help if you defended yourself instead of giving up. Try answering questions instead of ignoring them too.

For example: why do you think someone who makes a random vote is likely scum?
Why do you think any lynch that we make today will be random?
Don't you think we have a chance of catching scum?
Do you think our chances of finding scum go up or down if we focus on the inactive players? Why?

Yuu- I will echo everything that's been said and say that it's better if you talk. You will learn much more by actively playing the game than by watching and it's easier for the rest of us to work out where you stand if we have something to go on.

You're already making a good start, I can see.

J_Slr- you're not going to vote

only

for inactives are you?

[M4yhem]

Fair enough.

Good call on Syphen, I'd forgotten he'd existed.

[M4yhem]

I like this post much more than your other ones.

Unvote, Vote:JonMW

[M4yhem]

M4yhem, if voting for this (extremely suspicious, in my opinion) character will only get your vote pointed at me, then I'll change it.

That's an interesting reaction, Jon. Is not being voted for more important to you than finding mafia? Have you considered the possibility that I might be mafia who, having staged an arguement with my buddy Pope's, have now decided to chase you away? And what if I say I don't like your syphen vote, will you change that too?

I find it slightly troubling that you change your convictions depending on what I think.

Yuu- you have my reasons mostly right. Once Pope's started looking a little more town in my eyes, I start to wonder about the people voting him. Jon's vote stood out as lacking reasoning and so I feel exploring him would be a good idea.

lol@ your avatar, Jon.

I'm going to have to third what Michel said about no-lynch. No-lynch is bad and to be avoided at all costs.

Welcome to somedamnkid (rofl).

[M4yhem]

A bad lynch also gives us information. By looking at who voted for the dead townie, when and how, we get evidence we can use against the mafia.

No lynch doesn't give us this evidence.

We will never absolutely know anyone is mafia today but that doesn't mean we can't make an educated guess.

And it lets the mafia make the first move, with thier nightkill

Also, no-lynch is boring. Where's the blood and screaming?

[M4yhem]

Jon, I would say as an IC that if you are town, finding mafia is your top priority. Survival is just a nice bonus. That doesn't mean you shouldn't fight back if someone votes for you unfairly- you should, as hard as you can.

What it does mean is that if you think you've found mafia, no amount of pressure on you should make you back down from your convictions.

For mafia on the other hand, their survival is their top concern. For this reason, if they come under pressure for attacking someone they are more likely to back away. Which is why I'll be keeping my vote on you at this point.

[M4yhem]

But now, you've put me in a difficult position.

Why did you allow Pope to buy your trust so easily in one go? He answers all your little questions and you roll over for him, turning on anyone that voted for him in the first place.

I wouldn't say you were in that difficult a position. You are a suspect, yes, but many other people are also suspects and at this point my vote is far from final. What is it you said earlier?

The innocent have nothing to fear

.
If you believe that and you are innocent, you'll find a way to show that in time.

I can't help but feel you are misrepresenting me a little. Pope does not have my trust. Until they are dead and proved town, noone has my trust except Erg0. My vote may be on you but my eyes are on everyone.

And I'm not 'turning' on

anyone

who voted for him. Just you, so far.

Random questions to get people talking:

Somedamnkid, what do you think of Syphen's latest post?
Michel, what do you think of Jon?
Yuu- do you think Pope's is mafia? Why/why not?
ThisisTony- If you had to pick out one person as town, aside from you, who would it be and why?

[M4yhem]

Jon- If you're town, stop thinking about what I will think and follow your instincts.

Why do you suspect Pope's? What did you think of the post which was the reason I unvoted him?

[M4yhem]

I do not think an experienced player would jump into such an active role and become a target so easily, although it may just be that he is a very vociferous person. At this time I'd say scum.

Do you think taking an active role means I'm more likely to be lynched? Do you think scum are more likely to put themselves in the spotlight or less likely?

My explanation would be that I take an active role because I enjoy it. Pretty much any game I play in, in whatever role, I will try to lead not follow. I guess I'm a little bossy and opinionated.

Syphen- What makes you think that nervousness equals scum? Especially since this is many people's first game, I find that a little dodgy.

Pope's- Even if you are echoing what is said, I'd still like to hear your reasons in your own words.

A list, since it's all the rage:

Yuu- Now that she's started posting, I like her posts. Mostly they seem reasonable and I get the feeling she's trying her best. Likely town.

Somedamnkid- Same as Yuu really. So far I agree with most of his posts and when I don't agree, I think he's wrong for honest reasons.

Michel- Good analysis so far. Nothing I can find fault with.

J_Slr- Seems like he's using his own initiative to look for scum. Mostly sensible, maybe a little catious. Probably town.

WhereisTony- I really don't know either way. What he has said I've had no reason to disagree with. On the other hand, he hasn't said much...although that's changing now.

(Also, the bear freaks me out)

Where is Tony- Your number one suspect seems to be voting for your number two suspect. How do you explain that?
Would you like us all to vote for Pope's tiara too? If so, why aren't you making any effort to convince us he's scum?

Syphen- I wasn't all that crazy about his defence. I agree that the quick townie claim is suspicious. I'd like to hear a lot more from him
(A list, some analysis) but I'm think he's a real possibility.

The Pope's Tiara- I'm still not happy with his reaction under pressure. He suggested he might be a cop, suggested we lynch a lurker to avoid upsetting the active players then voted no lynch for no good reason.
I really don't know what to think about this- it's all quite scummy.
On the other hand, he is a newbie. Possible scum here too.

Then there's Jon. If Pope is a townie who has just messed up, Jon looked a lot like scum taking advantage of him when he placed that quick third vote. His reaction under pressure was also scummy- he back down as soon as I turned my attention on him. He seems to think pleasing me is more important than scumhunting. I still think my vote is well placed here, although it's still early and he has a chance to redeem himself.

However, I can't forget some of the earlier tactics he used in an attempt to dispel the suspicion that he attracted even then. Perhaps they are explainable by his simply being a nervous newbie, unaware of what statements will earn him the wrong kind of attention, but it still all rubs me the wrong way.

You realise that you and him acted quite similarally under pressure?
Both changed your vote, both went for lurkers, both voted no lynch. What do you make of that?

[M4yhem]

As I iterated before, I changed my vote under pressure because I thought that that was how we were supposed to play, even as Vanilla Townies. Or are you trying to ignore what I said?

I’m not ignoring anything. I just don’t necessarily accept your explanations as fact.

Voting No Lynch... He did it entirely for dramatic reasons, as he said before. Don't you remember how he put on the resigned martyr act? I voted No Lynch purely as a placeholder until I could identify a new suspicious player and vote for them.

What’s wrong with simply unvoting, as a placeholder?

I should probably point out that I don’t personally, have a problem with emotional scumhunting. I think logic is only one aspect of the game. The emotions people display can tell you as much about their alignment as the arguments they use.

M4yhem votes for Tiara, claiming that this is motivated by the "random voting" stage in the game. Take note that Michel - who may have more or less experience than M4yhem (wiki turned up nothing on him) - disagrees with him on this point. Perhaps M4yhem was lying to us? Perhaps Michel was. MAybe one of them is simply wrong, or maybe one of them is taking advantage on us being newbies - we do not know how the game is played.

Now that’s a serious accusation. Remember please, I am not just here to play mafia, I am here to help you learn to play mafia the mafiascum way. This being the case, it would be a breach of trust for me to mislead you about how the game is played. I will guarantee you at this point, that any question about how the game is played will be answer 100% honestly.

No, that doesn’t mean I will always be right. Being human, I’m bound to goof at some point. It also doesn’t mean me and Michel will always agree; we may play on the same site but we play in different games and so our experiences will be different.

But we will be giving you the truth as we see it.

p.s. If you want to get a feel for how I play, click on my name and then click on ‘post history’.

You seem to be implying, Jon, that I voted for Pope in order to force him to defend himself. My counter-argument would be that I asked him so many question and gave him a chance to defend himself because I wanted to make sure he was scum and not just a misguided newbie. I’d say I’ve asked you as many questions and encouraged you to defend yourself as much as I did for Mr. Tiara- do you disagree?

Tony- HoS means ‘Hand of suspicion’. It’s a way of emphasising you find someone suspicious without voting for them. Fos (finger of suspicion) is also used for this purpose.
(You could use pretty much anything really- ‘trout of suspicion’, ‘pole of suspicion’, ‘stamp of suspicion’; the basic meaning is the same.)

As a side note I believe that protecting someone this early in the game is a surefire scumsign. Everyone's posts say that they aren't sure who they can trust and everybody is under some suspicion. As we have no masons the only people who know who is town and otherwise are the mafia members so protecting anybody implies mafia knowledge.

I don’t completely agree. I’d say it’s true that defending scum is a good pointer that you might also be scum but it isn’t surefire. I will sometime defend people who I think are town if the case against them is bogus; I’d say trying to stop a mislynch is a protown pointer quite often. (And sometimes scum will defend a doomed townie to make themselves look better).

I’m thinking I’d like to see lists from people who haven’t posted them yet.

Syphen- any possibilty of a list from you? Who's town, who's scum, that sorta thing?

[M4yhem]

Unvote, Vote:Syphen

I could write a detailed explination, but it would just be an echo of what has already been said.

Pope's- Even if you are echoing what is said, I'd still like to hear your reasons in your own words.

Bumped for your convenience.

1: I thought if I just agreed with you guys that my actions appeared to be from newbieness and nerves that there would be less pressure on me and the focus would move else where. And it did.

Are you saying you lied about being nervous to get the pressure off you?
(I missed this the first time round.)

[M4yhem]

Alright, let's see what happens if I switch to

Unvote,Vote:Syphen

Reasons:
Possible lurker
Quick townie claim when pressured.

I'd also like to suggest the following tactic: We all make lists, from scummiest to least scummy, of all the people in the game. Then, when everyone has made a list, we pick whoever most often is in the top two and lynch them.

My list looks like this:
Most scummy
Syphen
JonMW
Pope's Tiara
WhereisTony
J_Slr
Michel
Yuu
Least scummy

Okay?

[M4yhem]

Although the change from 'Townsperson' to 'Goon' has me intrigued or have I missed that this whole time?

If only it was that easy. It's his postcount- as you post more, your title changes. So if you post enough, you too can be Mafia scum, like me!

Happy scumday!

Thank you!

I'll have more analysis and less fluff when all the lists are posted, I promise.

[M4yhem]

btw why do people keep saying 'vanilla' townie?

because townie can mean two things
1. A person whose only power is their vote/salmon of doubt

2. Any role that wins with the town

So if you say 'vanilla' townie you make it clear what kind of townie you mean.

For a person who works best unordered, you make very good lists.

[M4yhem]

I find the idea of the list most interesting! M4yhem, you sure come up with some great ideas (also, congratulations, happy scumday!).

Thank you. If you are scum, you are very smart scum because now I don't want to vote you, ever.

It's really an extension of Michel's lists, to be fair, so give him some credit.

As for Syphen, if we all think he's scum we have four options:
1. Lynch him right away. Probably not a good idea because there's a chance he might be a powerrole. It's best to have him claim and defend himself.
2. Wait eight days.
3. Give him a free pass for today and try to lynch his partner
4. Beg the mod for a replacement.

Of course, at the moment we haven't decided on who to lynch. We are waiting for Michel/Pope's Tiara/Syphen to make a list.

There's no reason to sit around twiddling our thumbs though, so here's some more questions to keep us going: (Feel free to interrogate me if you like too.)

Somedamnkid- You seem to think WhereisTony should have moved his vote at some point. When should he have moved it? Who should he have moved it to? What makes the case against that person stronger than Tony's case against Pope's?

Pope's Tiara- Are you still here? Are you hiding because you're afraid the heat will fall back on you if you post? Do you like the list lynch plan?
Can we have a list from you?

Michel- Same questions as Pope's Tiara except for the 'hiding from the heat one. Instead- do you agree that your play is 'cold and lifeless'? What is the main difference between your scum play and your town play?

Yuu- If we all suddenly started voting you, how would you defend yourself? What would you say to change our minds?

Jon_MW- What's the worst thing that could happen in this game? If you had a scumbuddy and they came under attack, would you defend them, attack them or just ignore the whole thing?

J_Slr- Same question as Yuu.

WhereisTony- Do you think somedamnkid is more likely to be scum for attacking you or is it a neutral action? Are him and Yuu protecting each other? If you could lynch Pope's Tiara today, would you, or is there more you'd like to know from him or any other player first? If so, what?

[M4yhem]

J_Slr- It depends on exactly how much heat he/she was taking and how they were handling it.
1-3 votes and I would ignore it completely and concentrate on making my townie targets look bad.
More than three votes or if my partner is obviously unable to handle the pressure means that I will have to sacrifice him/her. At this point, I will attack my partner as strongly and convincingly as I can and then help kill them by voting for them.

At this point, I'm leaning towards a Tiara lynch. We'll see if he has anything to say.

Michel- Please when you have time, will you make a list and say who your top three choices for the lynch would be? I think we have enough information to move to da two, what do you think?

[M4yhem]

People’s choice for scum, top three (1 point for third, 2 points for second, 3 points for first place):

Syphen +3
JonMW +2
Pope's Tiara +1 –M4

Pope's Tiara +3
Syphen +2
JonMW +1-Whereis

The Pope's Tiara +3
Syphen +2
WhereIsTony +1-Jon

Syphen +3
somedamnkid +2
The Pope's Tiara +1 –J_Slr

JonMW +3
WhereIsTony +2
Syphen+1- Yuu

Whereistony+3
The Pope's Tiara +2
JonMW+1- somedamnkid


Currents scores:
Syphen = 11
Pope's Tiara = 10
JonMW = 7
WhereIsTony = 6
somedamnkid =2

Still waiting for Michel's, Tiara's and Syphen's lists.

Mod:

Please will you prod The Pope's Tiara? He hasn't posted for a while and we don't know why.

[M4yhem]

I'll skim the previous posts to glean the drift of the thread and the accusations, but are there any post/s in particular that you wish to direct my attention to?

I'd like you to read the whole thread and then give us your opinion on all the players, arranged in order of most to least suspicious, with your comments as to why you put them in that order. Thanks.

I'd be happy to wait a couple of days for that.

Another question: what means do have to throw off this incorrect yoke of suspicion?

If you show, by your actions, that you are interested in finding mafia that would do for me.

I've already Roleclaimed; do I need to address the objections against Pope's Tiara?

You could give us your opinion on why he acted as he did.

Or do I merely need to throw the suspicions on a scummier candidate? (because I assure you, I am NOT a villain)

You need to do both- defend yourself and find someone you think is mafia. It's not easy, but like I said, I will give you a couple of days to read and make up your mind before I put you under pressure.

Not sure idf i should re-assess based on the new guy, or consider that the new guy may just be a better player.

Both.

[M4yhem]

I knew what Tiara was saying, I just thought that pointing out 'I might be a cop' as your first line of defense is a bit dodgy. As I said then, any kind of discussion of power roles is a bad idea because it hints to scum what people might be. Also, it's basically frightening people out of voting for you by saying 'but what if you're wrong?'

Bad tactics, tbh.

[M4yhem]

A question for the ICs (MichelSableHeart, M4yhem):
I think JonMW's logic above is patently flawed. Is this reasonable grounds to suspect him as scum?

Yes, fairly reasonable. Since scum are lying about the reasons for their votes, their logic is often quite flawed. Of course, townies can mess up too; only Spock is a perfect logician.

His intentions are important too.

What do you think of JonMW and his reasoning?

I mostly agree with him. You are right that 'role-claim' is a phrase that normally means telling people what your role is.
But I think Jon is right when he says the Pope was implying that he could be a cop and I think that it is reasonable to assume Pope wanted people to think of him as a cop, if only for a moment.

Currents scores:
Syphen = 11
Pope's Tiara = 10
JonMW = 7
WhereIsTony = 6
somedamnkid =2

WHO I THINK WE COULD LYNCH TODAY:
Syphen
WhereIsTony
JonMW

New scores:
Syphen=14
WhereisTony=8
JonMW=8

M4yhem etc.,
Could you elaborate on why you get a townie reading on Yuu?

She started contributing when I asked her to, instead of getting defensive or continuing to lurk. So far, her points have been reasonable and she gives the impression of wanting to do her best to find scum.

I find J_Slr's most recent post somewhat scummy.

Fos:J_Slr

It seems like he is agreeing with everyone.

[M4yhem]

Okay, Syphen is leading the polls for 'most suspected person'. Is everybody comfortable with killing him if he's still in the lead after Michel and Syphen have made their lists?

[M4yhem]

Ok my list would be.

Pope's Tiara (tumescence)
Syphen
JonMW
m4yhem
Michel
J_Slr
Somedamnkid
Yuu

I would Actually revisit my list

Tum
Michel
Jon

would be my top three

Old score:
Syphen = 11
tumescence = 10
JonMW=8
WhereisTony=8
somedamnkid =2

Revised score:
tumescence = 10
Syphen = 9
JonMW=8
WhereisTony=8
somedamnkid =2
Michel=2

Which means Tumescence would get the chop if we stick to the plan.

Tony- It's true that Syphen probably has legitimate reasons for being away but I would say he wasn't very helpful when he was here. His posts seemed mainly defensive.

Also, if Tumescence is still your top suspect, why are you voting for Michel?

[M4yhem]

The scores changed because WhereisTony changed his number two suspect from Syphen to Michel. Since being second is worth two points, I subtracted two from Syphen and gave them to Michel.

The ideal would be to have every player checking the thread and posting at least twice a week.

I checked on Michel (using the view all posts link on his profile). He hasn't posted on site since august 6 so I guess he's super busy.

[M4yhem]

In the interests of moving the game forward and since he's leading the 'who's scummy' polls at the moment, I will

Unvote, Vote:tumescence

[M4yhem]

Yuu, M4yhem, and everyone else: do you still think that Pope's purpose was to make others think of him as a cop, or do you acknowledge that alternative purposes are possible?

Both.
I acknowledge that he might not have been doing what I think he was doing but I find the alternatives harder to believe. It still seems to me that Pope wouldn’t have said ‘I might be the cop’ if he didn’t want people to think that he might be the cop.

If you think alternative purposes are possible, why do you still forge ahead to vote for Pope on such absolutely circumstantial evidence?

There are other reasons to vote for Pope- he wanted to lynch an inactive just to stop any active players getting upset, he voted no lynch for no good reason, he handle the pressure of being under suspicion badly and then he disappeared.

Can you find noone more suspicious? (i.e. if you're voting for me, or greatly suspect me).

I’m watching everybody closely. There are arguements I could make about several other people.

You're voting for me based on POLLS, which are themselves derived from people who are acting suspiciously (JonMW, WhereIsTony)?

They’re derived from everybody active in the game, including you. I am trying to get the town into a position where we can agree on who to lynch.

Earlier, you yourselves stated that Jon was your second most suspicious candidate. Now... Jon has put me as his top suspect. Why are you disregarding the fact that a suspected scum is contributing 3 points to my score?

Beacause your score does not come just from the scum but from townies as well. It is my hope that, because there are more townies than scum, the really scummy people will still get the highest scores, even with the scum giving high scores to the scummiest-looking townies to protect themselves.

And you're moblynching just to "move the game forward"? Really? Do you not think that such voting benefits scum way more than townies?

I think moving the game forward benefits every player. We have to lynch at some point or the game will stagnate. Also, it is no good me keeping track of everyone’s top three and assigning scores if I am not prepared to go through with the plan and vote for the top scorer. Everyone in the game has agreed with my plan, as far as I can tell. So I think I am doing what the town has agreed is in it’s best interest.

I would like to point out though, that I was not expecting anybody else to vote you so quickly.

Everybody read this:

I don’t want anybody lynched until Syphen’s replacement has made himself known and Michel has given us his list.

Finally, if any of you want to change the scores you gave Pope’s (or anyone else) now is the time. If anyone has doubts about the plan I’ve suggested, now is the time to make them known. If you don’t, I assume that you are happy to vote for the top scoring candidate when the time comes.

Also, if you copy+paste the most recent set of scores and then change them yourself, I’ll be really grateful. If you want to know how, ask.

Somedamnkid- Have you got bbcode enabled?

I agree that Tony was quite quick with the followup vote, so

Fos:WhereisTony

[M4yhem]

Tony- If tum is scum num one, who's his partner?

Somedamnkid- If Tony's scum, who's his buddy?

[M4yhem]

Hello afatchic and populartajo!

I know I own all of youse a big post. I don't have time right now but you all will get it either later this evening or tomorrow.

[M4yhem]

so what does everyone think about J_slr being NK'ed?

I have to admit I'm surprised.

but do yall think that the mafia actually had a serious reason to NK him or did they just do it randomly.

Speaking from experience, they probably had a serious reason. When I'm mafia I tend to kill either because
1.I think someone is acting like they have a power role (doc or cop in this game.)
2. The person is on to me or one of my partners
3. I want to frame a townie by killing the person who was going after them hard.
4. The person will be difficult to get lynched.

I think any of these reasons could be used to justify the killing of J_Slr. The problem is, we have no way of knowing which reason, because we don't know how the scum think (if we did, we'd know who they are). So any speculation about why he was killed is exactly that- speculation.

Jon- There are a number of reasons why I might be still alive. Obviously I don't know what the real reason is since only the scum know that but here are a few possibilities:
a. I've been wrong all game and the people I said were least likely to be scum (Yuu and michel-now-populartajo) are scum and are keeping me around so they can laugh at me when they win.
b. You, JonMW, are scum and were afraid that killing me would reflect badly on you, so you decided to try to lynch me instead.
c. Populartajo is scum and thought it would be really obvious if one IC died and the other didn't.
d.The scum want the thrill of beating two IC's face-to-face.
e. Someone thought J_Slr would be harder to lynch than I am, or thought he was more a threat to them than I am.

Anyway...I really dislike that you say we are back at square one. You get a

Fos: JonMW

for that because it's dishearting and innaccurate. For one thing, we now have two confirmed townies, tumesence/pope's and J_Slr. I'd suggest that everybody reread those two players in isolation (there's a thing at the bottom of the page that says 'view all posts by..').

We cannot always trust tumesence/Pope and J_Slr to be right but we can trust them to be truthful, which is very valuable at this point.

Also, everyone who helped lynch a townie, including me, should be forced to give an account of their actions. We'll start with JonMW- why did you vote for tumesence/Pope's? Why did you keep your vote on him dispite his defence? He was going after you pretty hard at one point, did that factor into your vote? Are you scum?

Rereading J_Slr, he was significatly suspicious of the following people: Syphen, somedamnkid, whereistony, JonMW.
He went after Syphen mainly for lurking. It's a shame he never really commented on afatchic because I'd like to have known if he changed his mind.
He started off suspicious of somedamnkid for agression but changed his mind just before he died.
He was becoming more suspicious of whereistony, based on somedamnkid's case.
And he had a few digs at JonMW.
Personally I think he was wrong about somedamnkid. Agression to me is a neutral trait, more about the player than the role.
I'd say he might have been onto something with Tony and Jon.

[M4yhem]

I think afatchic is backpedalling like crazy...

Generally, if you ask a question like that, the implication is that you think there might be something scummy worth discussing.

I agree with Yuu; hammering is no more scummy than any other vote that helps to kill a townie.

[M4yhem]

afatchic- It's not the question that bothers me. I'm strongly in favour of asking questions. It's the fact that you seemed to back of rather quickly when populartajo defended himself. You even said you thought he was protown, which seems almost like you were trying to placate him. You're also changing your story quite quickly- in your last post you say hammering isn't suspicious and now you say it is.

I agree that people don't always vote someone with the intention of killing them but nontheless a vote is a lethal weapon and everyone on the lynch is accountable. Also, someone has to hammer or the game will stall.

Populartajo- I'm pressuring Jon because he's been nervous and difficult to understand all game. Plus, he was on the townie lynch yesterday.

Where is whereistony? He's pretty high on my suspect list at the moment.

I'm thinking we should play a game. It's called 'if I am a cop'. It goes like this- everyone (and I do mean everyone) posts a sentence saying who they would have investigated as a cop. If you're a townie, pick another player at random and say that you found them innocent. If you are the actual cop and you have an innocent, tell the truth about who you investigated.

The point of the game is to give the cop, if we have one, a safe way to post innocent results without the mafia knowing. If the cop dies, we can go back and look at what he (or she) posted and then we'll know which people are cleared.

I'll start: If I am the cop, I investigated Yuu and she is innocent.

Next person to post, carries on.

[M4yhem]

I think it's worth the risk. Consider what will happen if we don't do it and the cop gets killed; we won't know who he investigated and that loses the town valuable information.

Also, the cop will not be lynched today. If he is one vote away from lynch then he only needs to say 'I'm the cop' and he's safe, at least from us. It's better to be killed by the mafia than the town. It's true that the scum can work out who isn't a cop from their results, but I think it's worth the chance of having a confirmed innocent later on.

[M4yhem]

Yes, it is.

Once we have one the second is much easier to find and losing a member sets the scum back a few days.

It's true the scum can claim to be cop (they often do) but if they don't die for several nights questions will be raised. Also, they have to fake their results, which can be tricky. If they say their partner is innocent they are drawing dangerous links between the two of them; if they give us real innocents, they shoot themselves in the foot.

But yeah, it's true you can't always trust cop claims. Still, I'd hesitate before lnyching a claimed cop.

[M4yhem]

Whoops. I meant to answer Tony's question there.

We also don't even know if there is a cop in the game.

This is true. I still think it's worth it, just in case.

[M4yhem]

I assumed that if the cop got a guilty, he would be pressing that person hard. Unfortunately, you

were

going after populartajo pretty hard; I was just too blinded by that fact I thought you were scum to notice.

I agree the game needs everyone to do it to work. I said that in the post I suggested the game, actually.

And yes, you being a cop does explain some things. I'm willing to test you out, anyway.

Vote:Populartajo

You might still get another investigation. If we're lucky, the doc will protect you. I'm quite happy to be checked out; I've nothing whatsoever to hide.

[M4yhem]

somedamnkid protects M4yhem

Thanks somedamnkid.

Nah, PopularTajo, I guess we should've killed M4yhem first, before he started putting ideas in people's heads lol. I've said it before, but still now I'm in awe with the things he came up with.

That's very kind but I was actually wrong about pretty much everything. I thought you and Michel were obviously town, I helped kill Tumesence because even though his defence was solid I was too lazy to move my vote and I failed to spot Jon hinting he'd got a guilty on Populartajo even though that was

exactly the behavior I was looking for

.

You guys all did very well. I'm proud of you. Good game, everyone!

Thanks for running it, Erg0. Even with replacements, the game went fairly smoothly.