Mini 645 - Innocence Falls (Game Over)

[habitang]

lol, first time I played a game with soemone I played a game with before. Remember me Cass?

vote:ythill

for being a party pooper.
Okay I am all partied out. WIll get serious too now.

Fixed tags -Mod

[habitang]

I'm not really following all this nonsense. It is joke voting, there can't be any argument built on that, although we pretty much have done that. I think by us talking about matters that are not relevant to this game will allow scum to respond way too easily as Townie.
SO the topic will develop discussion, but I think thsi type of discussion has a scum slant to it. I support discussing, the more the better, even this irrelevant discussion has told me a little more about players.
Although alot of people have contributed to that topic, I

Fos: Jahudo

because he seems to be tryign to take it to the next level.

[habitang]

I'm not really following all this nonsense. It is joke voting, there can't be any argument built on that, although we pretty much have done that. I think by us talking about matters that are not relevant to this game will allow scum to respond way too easily as Townie.

Arguments based from joke voting is precisely how the game (generally) gets out of the random phase and into real discussion...

How does this discussion have a scum slant to it? What kind of discussion is the type of discussion that doesn't have a scum slant?

...I don't understand this. You're FoSing Jahudo because he's trying to spark discussion?

I understand that the game has to start somewhere, and I appreciate the fact that the game has started, I'm not sure if ALL games start this way by grabbing onto joke voting and running with it, I can't really think of a much better way to start discussion. The thing is though, once we have the ball rolling, it does not make sense to dwell in the initial stages for too long and I think Jahudo is taking advantage of this phase that will not give us much additional clues to who is scum. It is time to move into real evidence of where people's tendencies and positions are to determine if they are pro-town or exhibiting scummy behaviour.

I mean if the Day 1 Lynch was based around how peoepl respond to an attack on their joke vote, then I think it is very easy to mislynch the least etiquette player rather than scum. I don't think Jahudo's questions would have led us to a lynch, but they certainly had potential to create anotehr 4 pages of discussion that woudl tell us less than anotehr page of proper investigation of a person's answer to relevant topics.

[habitang]

Oh wow! This is like a SUPER game! So much posting, it is awesome compared to all the other games I've played!
LOL at whoever voted themself! I did that last time and I was Townie so I can sympathyise a little, but at the same time, I don't really think you were pushed to the edge like me to pull out a self-vote. It is either really childish or actually scummy as someone mentioned above, I think.
Sorry, don't have much time to make a proper post.
I also though ti funny how TPT did his prelude before voting YtHill. It sounded really scummy by trying to discover teh cop and stuff and then BAM vote Ythill. lol.
But yeh, my YtHIll vote was a joke vote at the start and I havn't had time to really read over everything yet. So

unvote:YtHill

Also I stand proved wrong about how joke-voting starts worthwhile discussion. But at the same time, I can see how the discussion doesn't involve eveyrone which worries me, such as how Nureins keeps only asking specific people, even though he asks a few, I have scum suspicions on that action but will explain later.
So no substantial post yet, just wanted to let eveyrone know I think this is a fantastic game with eveyrone posting so much.

[habitang]

Just a pointless side comment. All this sarcasm makes things a bit harder to understand. TPT justified his use of sarcasm with good reason, much better than saying 'I'm kidding'.

My focus is on Jahudo again. I accepted his first defence of my initial suspicions, which wasn't a significant suspicion.
But his latest post

I just want a clarification, but your defense against the Pope is that he is your partner?

Seems to be probing a bit too much in a way that benefits scum there.

The self-vote is poor play as both town and scum, but it seems like something that townies do more often than scum, regardless.

He finds the action significant to comment on but then he does not give his opinion but rather a broad sweepign statement. To me, that is withholding information.

@ Jahudo: What does you took this line with a grain of salt mean? Just a clarification question.

Nureins is also goign under the microscope, asking groups of people seems like a way for confusion, it prompts those people asked to answer, as compared to askign eveyrone, where those who find relevance wil answer. Also it seems liek a distancing technique, to include your partner's name in the list amongst other names. To protect your partner's identity if he gets lynched. If you are going to ask a group of people, why not just ask eveyrone?
Also a result of it is not very pro-town when thsoe who aren't asked have teh license to not give their opinion.

[habitang]

lol, one stupid [/quote] and I become the bad guy. Anyhows, that was an unnecessary rave, but I liek to have my sidenotes too.
Yeh but it was good to hear from Andycyca, who is yet to catch up on current happenings. I look forward to your post tomorrow.

[habitang]

You are using the 'Too Townie' tactic in that response.
I maintain my

FOS: Jahudo

[habitang]

Sorry. My bad. I though Jahudo was responding there. Well my previous post still stands. But yeh
@ Matin: I can see how I have come up with a theory for Nurein's actions. And I can say my theories are not based on hard evidence, but just that, theories, still they prompt a response from those spoken against.
As for the focus on Jahudo, I have not posed any theory other than I think he is suspicious for scummy actions, evidenced 2, which will still require a response.
As for overtly leading, I am guilty of that. There has to be a point where conversation leads to something: preferable a unanimous lynch of scum, but without evidence leading to anything, then what's the point?
Also the Too Townie approach is definitely bad. Can we please not be accusing each other of being too townie, otherwise people have to start thinking about whether their comments may weigh too heavily on the Townie side and so be accused. I agree with Nureins on the no hiding in the forest stuff.

[habitang]

Oh cool! I forgot about the Vigilante role. And yeh I agree with YtHill on scum pairing, doesn't help, makes the game crazy to follow.

[habitang]

Poah! What a mouthful by Nureins! I will read it later, probably tomorrow. Anyhows, just wanted to apologise to Jahudo for putting words in his mouth previously. Jahudo is correct in saying it was Goatrevolt who said those things.
Unintentional misquote I assure you.
I have no idea what mason-fishing is, but it sounds good, wohoo to me!
Thanks to Jahudo for the salt explanation but I now must ask YtHill for his explanation of mason-hunting.

[habitang]

Oh nvm I wiki-ed what mason fishign is. And if I had read properly in teh first place I would have found that you were nto saying I was mason-fishing anyway.
OH man I gotta read better. That's like my second or third misreading already. Btw, it's funny, my last game, I misread/miscounted and got myself hammered. lol. Cass can bear witness to that.

SOmeone asked about this above? Basically I voted for myself because I knew I had put eveyrone's suspcion on me, so to help Town I'd rather be lynched Day 1 than survive anotehr day only to have everyone's eyes on me and get lynched Day 1 which would of been a bigger strain on Town than if I just got lynched Day 1. I voted myself for teh greater good. But this is not exactly teh same case here. No more asking about that game, you can go read it yourself Dasquian's party in Road to Rome. It's irrelevant.

@ Ythill: I don't have much more argument to bring against Jahudo at this stage. Basically it was the possiblity of mason-fishing and then it was the misquote of Goatrevolt.

[habitang]

OMGUS at Nureins and Simenon. Why be so exclusive for? It's like you two are bickering while the rest of us just give commentary on the side.

I can see how TPT is a good starting point for suspicions or non-suspicion. But I think it will be a nice break to stop arguing about TPT and start lookign at who is using this situation to their advantage. The way Nureins and Simenon are 'discussing' TPT makes me think they may just be two overzealous Townies if that makes sense.

Also I do not support how some players are reading into every single statement and wording. It makes the game not onyl hard to follow but we start to miss the point of what we were talking about in the first place.

Sorry Jahudo to seem to be directly on your case all the time, but your last post gives me the idea that you are supporting the convo in any direction, sorta like when you were questioning about random voting cept now the issue is more relevant and you aren't taking any stand on it. It's the most suspicious thing you've done so far. My first suspicion was to jolt some discussion, which I accepted your defence. But as this game progressively moves along, you are progressively moving along on my scum 'O' meter.

So I only think TPT has gone one step in the wrong direction and when he stops voting himself maybe he’ll make a move elsewhere.

And why would I want to cooperate with the town? Oh, right, you're all so sure that I'm a townie now, right? Night hasn't passed. I haven't been investigated, yet. No one really knows for sure. Even then, what if I end up being a Godfather; undetectable to a cop? Or what if I'm a milller, and wrongfully thought of as being scum?

Still, it’s posts like these that I think people have the most opposition towards.

[habitang]

EBWOP Mod: I unvoted YtHill before didn't I? if not unvote: YtHill

[habitang]

I havn't read everything yet. But TpT has a poor FoS on Jahudo. I didn't get it.

And I agree with Matin who said I am directing conversation, well that is my take on everything pretty much, everyone gets focused on one thing that they miss other avenues so that is what I am tryign to do, if you think it is a bad avenue then give your reasons for it but I do not think it is a scum-tell to do so.

Sorry will post properly later.

[habitang]

Still no proper post. This is getting really hard to follow, there are like so many conversations going on. But it seems that suspects so far are TPT, Simenon, Nureins?

To me Jahudo has cleared, not because everyone doesn't agree, but I thought I caught him doing suspicious stuff and in teh end rather than being more careful about what he does, as a scum would. He goes and does somethign silly like vote TPT on the basis of literacy. I should be jumping all over that but I don't think scum would be so dumb to do that if they are being suspected. So my conclusion for now is that Jahudo really has nothing to be afraid of.

As for TPT, his playstyle is really unhelpful, putting aside all the at-times humourous sarcasm, his vote on ectomancer and Fos on Jahudo don't carry any weight. So TPT is not high on my scum suspicions ...yet, havn't really checked him out. But I am checking out other possibilities for now.

[habitang]

I find both Nureins and Simenon to be Townies in friendly-fire battle. Which by the way is not helping Townie since scum don't need to do much to get one lynch.

Can we not argue so much but rather do some investigating, and also you both (Nureins and Simenon) need to stop biting on every single thing the other person says. If they say something scummy, then let us know, don't quote eveyrthing they say and say all of it is scummy, even if they are scum, not evyerthing scum say is scummy. I agree with Ectomancer on Cass seemign to push the argument in the Nureins Simenon crossfire. At the same time I would accuse Ectomancer of pushing arguments by pairing up Cass and Nureins.

I honestly would rather not hear anymore between Nureins and Simenon. I think it is Townie killing Townie.

vote:Andycyca

Andycyca, I'm glad you responded, but your response didn't implicate anyone. And if this is how you are going to be posting, only when asked and even then only at a very surface level then I would find you less helpful than TPT.

I forgot to thank Ecto for defending my case earlier about the self-vote. Thank you Ectomancer for putting your but on the line for my case.

[habitang]

You are persistent aren't you.
Tpt's bandwagon...hmmm. It was L-2, not that important but anyway. I think it was justified, eveyrone has their opinions and I can see how people would want to vote TPT.

I'm of teh notion that if eveyrone is focused somewhere, I like to look elsewhere. I think there is little need for me to lend eyes to someone that already has 3 pairs of eyes on him. It is also during these moments that scum will use to their advantage and I felt Jahudo may have been doing that at the time.

Plus what's so bad about me attacking Jahudo if I think he is scum? I'd rather I attack each person individually than for us to arrive at a lynch on one person just because eveyrone agreed to it.
Information is valuable. Investigations are valuable... and I can't think of a third valuable thing beginning with 'I' to complete my profound statement...I am valuable?

[habitang]

how annoying... I answered why.

Here is an analogy: There is a spotlight on TPT. Everythilg else dims when there is a spotlight on somethin and it is much easier to hide in the dark than it is to hide in the spotlight. If TpT is scum, TpT will be revealed as such. But if someone not in the spotlight is scum, then they will not so easily be revealed as such. I choose to shine my own torch into the surrounding area outside of teh spotlight.

Is there a problem with that? I can see how it could be scum tactic to re-route discussion for whatever reason. But I would rather investigate everyone even a little to make sure no one sneaks by than be satisified with a reasonable lynch that has majority consensus.

I think it more likely to harm to scum in investigations than to accidentally misinterpret Townie reactions.

And btw I said all of this before. I've now just re-worded it. Argh!

[habitang]

I'm sorry. Nureins, your super long posts are way too long and I can't read them. Each time I start I see how much there is and I have to stop before I start crying at how much there is. I don't even do this much reading for school. I am starting to have a slight feeling that you may just be scum, what a great scum tactic: have super long posts so that noone reads them, hence avoiding suspicion. But I'm glad we do have people reading them. Otherwise I haven't really been reading your posts, too long, this is to your disadvantage because I will gladly be the hammer vote if you're the suspect, even without reading.

@YtHill: I'm curious, you had suspicions on TPT earlier on, but then you never did clarify if you stopped suspecting him, I assume you have stopped suspectign him since you stopped posting about him. What happened? I know once again I am directing conversation, but feel free to retrun to whatever you guys are on about after this short tangent.

[habitang]

oh yeh

unvote: Andyca

I hope you keep up the posting.

[habitang]

[quote="YtHill']None of my tells on them are based on relationships with one another and I am not saying that all three are scum, just that they are the three most likley individuals in my view. [/quote]

vote:YtHill

Scum has slipped up and also given us clues to how many of them there are. Gone!

[habitang]

Sorry. That is my bad reading again.

unvote

I do liek to read, but more succint stuff would be good.
Wells I guess I will try do some reading now...

[habitang]

Oh yeh, I can't follow all those posts on Nureins you made. I read them but NONE of them seem liek scum-tells, so can you like highligth teh main ones or top 3 for me please?

[habitang]

Sorry my bad, I'm triple posting.
@Jahudo: you are like doign teh same thing I accused you fo throughout this game. Of focusing on the irrelevant stuff so much and generatign discussion out of nothing. I said I cleared you because it seemed like scum would not keep doign it especially after being pulled up on it, but now you continuously do it as if to prove me right in clearing your name. It's WIFOM stuff but I woudl liek a better read of you. What do you make of it all? I mean of Ythill, Nureins, lurkers or whatever else you think is important?

[habitang]

Thanks YtHill. First time I did some proper reading on Nureins I think, previously was based on assuming that NUreins was just a crazy Town who liked to post eveyrthing.
But I'll get rid of the minor one you mentioned first #161 so I can focus on teh juicy one:

does not follow the progression of evidence/accusation as stated by its author (major scum).

Hardly a major scum tell, all he said was this:

Some scum-hints from up to down...

I don't even get what Nureins is trying to say there. Scum-hints? it is like he is giving scum tips on how to win, from 'up to down'? WHat in the world? Sorry NUreins at criticising your English, it is actualyl quite good since you are playing in a forum, it is just these little thigns that confuse us.

Okay, now there was Nureins post at the beginning with the 4 options,

we have to enjoy some adventures in the beginning of the game... 2 is clearly due to a misunderstanding on Matin's answer and the head scratcher thing...and 4 is ridiculous for what they are playing, haha, i could not believe such stupid play can be preplanned...

And then he uses the backdoor he set-up later in :

Answering to you with detail, I already said that 4 was not possible to me. I just extracted these 4 "theories" about the dance all of you were playing, and I wanted to hear opinions on them. I advanced that 1 and 3 were my "favourite" even if very very mild.

For me, I don't think he set-up the backdoor since he pretty much used it as soon as he said it. Like it was pretty explicit that he thought No. 2 and 4 were stupid ideas, which he posted anyway.

So that is my position on those 2 points. Juicy part now, hopefully. I am yet to verbalise this next part. Hang ten.

[habitang]

I found more than just one instance of coaching of TPT by Nureins:

At some point, I was tempted to accept TPT's behavior as newbie and/or as very emotional...and I was interested into confirming such with metainformation (as we announced we were about to do). What I really found surprising is that TPT directly announced that he is:

-an experienced player
-someone that calculates a lot his actions (as he wanted not to be meta-studied and so on...

Really, TPT, why are you doing this ? Think a bit if you are townie, this is not helping us. I yet have a lot of doubts, but it is difficult to find people to defend you if you act like that. Especially if you have no metagames to defend you and you claim to be so experienced...

My advice is for you to stop that arrogance, TPT. This is not gonna help you.

But TPT is absorbing so much attention than the rest vanishes...

I actually agree with this last point though.

But yeh my main stance on these latest parts: I will not get into scum pairing or tripling or whatever amount of pairing, so don't worry.

Mod: how many scum are there?

Has anyone else played these minis and noticed a trend of scum set-up? ie. the traditional: mafia role blocker and goon or is it 2 goons?

Okay now to investigate: My first impression was that NUreins seemed to be buddying up to eveyrone! I agree with you on this, I agree with you on that! BUt then in the context of him posting on absoultey eveyrthing, this makes sense.

Oh whoops, guess it wasn't that juicy.
@ YtHill, did I interpret your points right?

[habitang]

WHoops, forgot to give my stance on the whole coaching thing. Well actually, I don't know what to make of it without getting into scum pairing. So here I go about scum-pairing:
If TPT is paired with NUreins, then we should vote NUreins since Nureins initiated the coaching.
If TPT is not paired with NUreins, Nureins may have initiated the coaching just to get his scum buddy free. But Nureins was not under sufficient heat to start thinking about distancing from his buddy so I do not think that this can be the case.
Argh gtg! couldnt finish this!

[habitang]

Oh sucks! I did see how Ectomancer seemed to just throw up his arms and leave the lynchign to evyerone else, but I can completely sympathise that the waters are muddy.
Argh at eveyrone who posted long and also argued about 'ad naziem'!
So I guess we just gotta do some probing even in muddy waters, gold is usually found in muddy waters.

[habitang]

Initial feeling. OMGUS. But I appreciate you didn't do the whole PbPa, and focused especially on my playign style. I hate scrolling though heaps of quotes (I'm probably in teh wrong game eh?) I used to do it, but it always got thrown back at me and I lost credibility. Pretty much same way I feel about Nureins atm actually.

Cool. SO the business about Jahudo. My initial case on Jahudo was for starting discussion, but hey they were genuine scum pick-ups. If Jahudo responded funny then he would of been in trouble. But the onyl funny response I think was when he went and voted someone over semantics, which is just silly. Which felt weird to me, like weird in an 'eccentric Townie sort of way', I find those who suddenly revert 'back to books' when under pressure are scum moreso than those such as TPT who go crazy when they go under pressure. But atm, TPT does need to justify the sudden lurking.

I've learnt all about making inflammatory statements and getting lynched for it. SO if I make an inflammatory statement without thinking again, well I don't see why I shouldn't get lynched if it looks like a scum slip-up. IN all likelihood though, with teh pace fo this game, I don't think I will make any crazy statements, it has always been impatience that has driven me to acting all scum-like. So my claim about misreading alot, well it's more that I'm impatient and don't like reading long posts.

I sound liek full pro-scum the way you put my stance on scum-hunting. NO fair, you took eveyrthign otu of context. In particular, teh context of Nureins who loves posting on absolutely EVERYTHING.
I agree with Ectomancer's favourite analogy, I'm not telling people to stop scum-hunting, I'm telling people to stop muddying the waters.

[habitang]

Well I definitely see it as N00b play by Nureins when he posts on everything. That is if he is Townie. If he is scum, I think he is more N00b scum, since if he was experienced he wouldn't have any arguments against him at teh same time, the massive muddying of waters is a good cover-up.
So he is experienced player but first time scum OR just N00b all round. I havn't read too many of his posts to figure it out, but YtHill has done that for me and his suspicions seem to have cleared Nureins for me at this point, well not cleared, just not obvious scum as YtHill has put it.

[habitang]

A crazy thought. But how in the world are you supposed to detect scum? Sounds stupid i know. But in this game, I mean, scum are trying to get Townie peopel voted off, but at the same time, someone is going to get voted off regardless of what scum say. So scum just need to be pro-town for day 1, and whola, they 1. look Townie and 2. got someone voted off. It is only when they try pressure a vote that they are revealed. And in this game, it seems liek no1 is doing that, I mena scum shoudl have jumped on TPT's bandwagon. Unless they already did, meaning the only two that were on there for a long period of time, I super doubt this.
So what I propose is a no-lynch, or no-vote. Whatever it is. Let me see, 12 people. Night Kill x 1 by scum. NK x 1 by vigilante and we still have a ratio of 8:2 at best or 6:4 at worst.
But in all likelihood,the way this first day is going, I feel like Nureins has sorta stuffed it up for a proper investigation. Any scum coudl easily make a stance by saying Nureins is scum or town and then accuse eitehr nureins or say eveyrone is null-tell. I'm alluding to Andycyca's null-tell statements.

I'm in for a no-lynch or no-vote.

no lynch/ no-vote

[habitang]

Just a quick response to Jahudo. Set-up I know has at least 2 scum, at least one doc, at least one cop and at least one vigilante. The storyline says so. So best scenario actually on Day 2 would be a win with vig taking one out and we Townies lynchign properly D1.
But this no-lynch/no vote thing makes, I think, equal sense with re-reading. But people are not supporting the no vote thing so I guess I will have to re-read.

[habitang]

Actually, it's interesting. It seems highly unlikely to have a D2 win from a correct lynch D1 and a vig kill N1. I am pretty confident in deducing that with at least 3 pro-town spcial roles, then there shoudl at LEAST be 3 pro-scum roles. I'm going to say with certainty there are at LEAST 3 scum.

[habitang]

Sorry all. My impatience is kicking in. Yes that is a scum-tell. But it is also just a plain human-tell. I have no evidence except I'm running on instinct. I also know I am capitalising on Cass' good nature of reminding everyone how crap a player I am.

Jahudo seems to keep just being on the edge of my scum-radar. So he is just smelling fishy, I mena others have been higher on the suspect list but Jahudo just seems to be constantly tehre.
SO runnign on instinct.

vote: Jahudo

[habitang]

Well as a suspect you seem to be a safer choice than others. ie. Tritch's strange behaviour can be interpreted both ways as either completely eccentric Town or completely scummy. Same as Nureins and YtHill.
While to me, you are always giving safe answers, safe positioning, never really sticking your head out to take a stand on anyone.

While that makes sense for a Town to do in Day 1 especially, it also makes a lot more sense for scum to do the same. So in terms of the scummiest people in the game, your actions are not as overtly scummy as others but if I am going to vote for anyone in Day 1, I"m going to pick the one who balances the middle of putting in 'just enough' contribution to not be lurking and putting in 'just enough' suspicions to avoid appearing like you aren't scum-hunting.

My argument is very much on the side of 'Too Townie', which I know is bad. So in Day 1, the whole thing against Jahudo is instinct. My argument is not based on evidence but on the feeling that he may be playing his cards too well. Which is bad play by me, to accuse someone of acting Townie too well.

I also know how someone will pick up how I seem to give a lot of excuses for bad play. Scum. And I dunno (more ambiguity), I'm too tired to do anything else atm.

My vote stands until scum does something completely stupid. Maybe Jahudo will.

[habitang]

haha. Yeh we are lazy. aw wells. I'm pooped. Time for some time under the sun. Maybe I will set up my deckchair just by the lake, ahhh..........

[habitang]

I just had a creatvie streak. That's all. I was just getting tired of coming up to dead ends all the time. Plus, aren't I allwoed to bring up topics that havn't been discussed?

[habitang]

Argh. I can see scum cheering at my stupidity. Yes I feel the heat of beign suspected by a lot of people. I can only ask that I be given benefit of the doubt, like really really give me benefit of the doubt.

Argh in a game like this, that is not a logical thing to request. But I am sick of being teh stupid player, I do try.

I will be useful to Town for as long as I live. Don't lynch me!

Yes I believe that was anotehr of my suicidal raves. Argh at my impatience. Argh that can't possibly be an excuse for scummy behaviour! Sorry eveyrone for me completely losing it again!

Honestly, can I redo with a clean slate? I wish I never posted anything now.

Not only am I going on a rave, I think that if I just let everything go, then maybe you will see me better.

Present emotion: OMGUS at lots of people! Especially myself. Argh. I want to vote Tritch to save my own ass but I think Tritch just lost it like a normal human being.
Also no1 seems to be suspecting Jahudo except me! Doesn't that say something about scum backing off? Read Jahudo's posts!!

please don't lynch me :(

[habitang]

Firtsly I would like to thank Cass for helping me even when she is riskign suspicion by doing so.

Next I know I am walking a fine line now where I have just been given a second chance and I am really calm now. No self votes, ever.

I don't have a main suspect yet, but Jahudo is not clear for me either.

the TPT wagon never looked like gaining momentum enough for a lynch, which is what the scum are looking for. The pro-town wouldn't have momentum as their top priority as long as they gain information to help them decide who's who, right?

Jahudo, what does your information consist of to vote me (I did read your vote post), I mean other than the specifics of my post? How do you account for the momentum you created upon my case?

[habitang]

What heat were you referring to? Besides not having any votes on back then, you do know how many votes it will take today to lynch? With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch unless I'm mistaken.

Well I knew I didn’t have heaps of votes on me. I think when I read through the posts, suspicions on me are generally fine in my books, even though YtHill’s suspicions put me off just a tiny bit since he is experienced in the game, so his suspicions are definitely not without good reason. But suspicions are the point of the game so I was easily composed. But it were the suspicions heating up after my no-vote comment that made me feel that momentum was building up against me, and then Cass alerted me of my suicidal thing I may be doing and in every single game I’ve played, I’ve ended up with a solid start to throw it all away with something suicidal like that.
Nhat’s suspicion on me that I was suspicious as hell really threw off, since he doesn’t post much and so when he does post, it carries more weight in my eyes.

And once someone is at L-2 and L-1 every rational townie will discuss thoroughly because a fast hammer is scummy. You have no reason to act this way, but I'd like an explanation.

I didn’t realise this until you’ve said it, but I completely agree. The conversations prior to my rave didn’t seem to be going towards a lynch at all, everyone had their own suspicions and not enough people were agreeing for there to be a majority vote on who everyone thought was scummiest.

Also what benefit of the doubt? That you don't think before you type because you've said its stupidity? That you're inexperienced? That you're not experienced with your role?

Just appealing to your better human nature. You can call it stupidity and inexperienced on my part.

Now it's much better to get everything out in the open and try to fix yourself up. Be honest and clearly outline your opinions of me and the rest. Maybe outline like nureins and Ythill did if you think I've been overlooked. I have nothing to hide, do you?

My opinion of you, hmm… well Goat outlined an interesting case against you, I think his evidence is arbitrary but evidence on Day 1 is generally quite hard to come by. I’m very glad he simply read your posts. I definitely agree with his conclusion though about your lack of conviction. You have voted for me with conviction, and I am still curious to where that conviction comes from outside of my raving post.

Easily persuaded on and off wagons, suggesting a lack of strength in opinions. My take on this is that he knows he's attacking townies and thus has a compete lack of conviction knowing that they'll end up being town.

I'm yet to get together a post on my main suspect though, havn't got one yet, since you are my only subject at present, by default you are my main suspect for the time being. Will post more later.

[habitang]

The conversations prior to my rave didn’t seem to be going towards a lynch at all, everyone had their own suspicions and not enough people were agreeing for there to be a majority vote on who everyone thought was scummiest.

EBWOP

Yhe that is not the reason why I acted that way, I wasn't tryign to stir conversation. I stated the above just in agreement to your point about L-1.

I find Simenon worthy of being reviewed. He seems to be getting impatient, which is hypocritical of me to say. But still I get reviewed by people so I'm goign to review Simenon for his impatience.

[habitang]

I find Andycyca most suspicious.

vote: ANdycyca

He found eveyrone to be either null-tell or townie prior to me. There is biased in my argument too, because his onyl stance has been against me.

I find him as others have commented to be 'opportunistic'. He has been on eveyrone's side, until he realised I'm of no help to him and thinking from scum perspective (it's called empathy), a lynch of someone who is giving theories that noone listens to (refering to my suspicions on Jahudo) is not a scum tell in Day 2 for those who voted me.

SO for me Andycyca falls into my no-vote-theory of how scum can easily slip by Day 1. He says eveyrthing is a null-tell, nothing is suspicious (except me), and by doing that, a lynch will still occur. With 15 pages of post in Day 1, scum must be patient.

He woudl become suspicious as soon as someone realises he has been saying eveyrone is not suspicious, so he jumps on the opportunity to take a stance by voting me.

[habitang]

Oh yeh, I tried reviewing SImenon. Got into a bit of scum pairing, ended up at Andycyca and I failed at reviewing Simenon. He has too many posts within context, ie. in response to others so I have to read eveyrone's posts, not just his, to get a proper idea of it all.

I'm veyr happy with my vote on Andycyca. And Simenon is not on my suspicion anymore. He didn't clear, but I didn't ahve any reason to suspect him either. His behaviour was more aggressive than impatience and is pretty consistent with eevrythign else he does.

[habitang]

I still need more in terms of why you voted TPT so late,

You said I never voted for TPT while I thought he was scum. I did vote for him after the initial investigation when you said I coached him. I was coaxing him into saying something game-related and relevant. Look back at his post content and say that you can’t make a case he was actively lurking. I didn’t outright say he was scum or Simenon was scum because it was early day one. My question to them was a misinterpretation of Simenon and has already been explained.

said a while back:

Personally I think any scum might've wanted to leave the TPT wagon long ago because it never looked like gaining momentum enough for a lynch, which is what the scum are looking for. The pro-town wouldn't have momentum as their top priority as long as they gain information to help them decide who's who, right?

I find your lateness in voting TPT as an attempt to create momentum again on something that looked like a lynch was going to happen. Then when you unvote him, the explanation does not cut it at all. It is like, 'this is what scum would have thought and done earlier', I'm just doing it later so I'm not scum.

[habitang]

EBWOP: The second quote of Jahudo ends with him unvoting TPT.

[habitang]

Habitang's glad the heat's off him, that's for sure

QFT

[habitang]

Interesting... When Jahudo first defended against the accusations of voting me, he was close to being moved away from my scumdar. But now the continued defence/accusation of me seems like he wasn't convinced that peopel were believing his first defence and so now is trying to consolidate what he initially said by bringing up some points on me.

BTW I do agree with a lot of Jahudo's PbPa on my behaviour except for whenever he is alluding to me being scum. So little of it seems to allude to scummy behaviour though, it seems that he made all these accurate points about what I have been doing, but just labels it all as scummy when really

This is what I have found scummy about him:

I think would be more accurate: This is what I have found out about him. So yeh I'm going to be happy with a Jahudo or an Andycyca lynch. Who knows? Maybe Vig can take care of the other one.

Anyhows I have found ti funny hwo a common question going around is if people think I am an experienced player or what? I know the whole N00b thign is workign to my advantage too, but just so you all know, I am NOT N00b. I know I shouldn't have gone all crazy like that, I know I need to be more patient, I know I shouldn't OMGUS, I know I shouldn't have done alot of the thigns I did. BUT I have also contributed to the game so you have to weigh up how I help with how I sometimes don't help. I don't do the not-helping thing on purpose either, I just had a lapse in gauging teh situation.

[habitang]

Andycyca-Jahudo seems like townie vs. townie to me.

I do need some clarification here because you've just gone and said both my top two suspects are Townie. I also havn't seen much of Jahudo and Andycyca attacks on each other for that to be described as vs.

@ Andycyca: I did give a reason for my vote on you before. You've been quite passive in accusing people and then you voted me. Which is reasonable too. It's not that you voted me, but how you changed behaviour so quickly from lurking to voting. Haha, I read somwhere else how someone desribed it as drive-by lurking.

[habitang]

@ Citizen: Just a tip. We shouldn't be getting into scum-pairing until we have a solid something to work off, ie. lynch/NK. I did the same thing in my first game. Otherwise we can talk forever about the infinite possibilities and get into a lot of WIFOM (circular reasoning).

[habitang]

It's great there is so much discussion with the new guys, keep it up. Except it seems like the rest of us have dropped off with this new round of discussion.

It seems like a while since Andycyca last posted. Makes me more suspicious of him. He is fitting my drive-by lurking more. He was quite active when it came to my lynch but now as things with that have died down, so has he.

My vote stands.

[habitang]

Well there isn't much evidence that I can actually point to say Andycyca is sucmmy here and here.
Ectomancer probably posts less than Andycyca but Andycyca has a tendency to not commit and label a lot of things as null-tell.

At this stage especially I would like to hear about his top suspect, there is plenty of evidence to go on.

[habitang]

I need to be replaced. I'm behind in all my school work. I can't play this anymore.

[habitang]

FInal post before I am gone. Just to clarify why I said 'keep it up.' as my replacement won't be able to explain it. In hindsight it does seem very ugh!

I said it as a counterweight to the meaning I thought you might get if I had said, 'tehre is a lot of posting from the new guys but I'd like to hear more from evyerone else as well.'

I didn't want to say that and suddenly get attacked for telling teh new guys to stop talking to allow otehrs to have more input.

I think it is a trivial thing to defend but I may as well since I won't be making anymore big contributions, that will be up to my replacement.

[habitang]

^0^*%$#@