Open 88 - Polygamist Mafia (Game Over) before 650

[farside22]

vote: armlx

Because it is now my new tradition when I see you in a game to vote for you.

[farside22]

Because it is now my new tradition when I see you in a game to vote for you. Razz

Farside wins the thread for OMGUSing a random vote across games.

Vote The Pope's Tiara

because we all know the pope prefers other forms of jewelery.

Woot!!

[farside22]

Being good looking is my wealth that I'm sharing. Enjoy it.

Oh, and

unvote

vote:xtoxm

Why, because I'm beautiful

You can't vote xtoxm he is the mod.

[farside22]

I have people saying mass claim is bad. I disagree as last poly game it was more useful for claims then not. You can tell by the way people vote and act who there lovers are anyways. Just my two cent.

[farside22]

I think it's an advantage to claim in this situation. There's no night and lover's die together so an accused person's lover can strengthen or weaken investigations. Also breaks the scum up into two groups.

Shall we wait for a consensus?

Yes I think we should wait for a consensus on this.

[farside22]

I like how you are quick to point the finger. The only reason that I didn't reveal in the popcorn was because it wasn't suggested until after I posted (so I started it after armlx suggested it).

Though I would be very interested to hear what armlx says we can learn from it, as I don't really know what I'm looking for in any info that the order reveals.

I think with revealing and using pocorn we can start to ask people why they chose the people they did. Should it look suspcious. Why were some more eager then others to claim isn't something that is wrong either. Being eager to tell your lover could be because your scum who already had everything planned out for this phase.
Personal I like the claims because as I said it will be obvious that some people are protecting another because they are lovers. It will be other tells in the game that show scum.

Zoolander / The Pope’s Tiara
Jebus / 3fj
Armix / kloud1516
Goatrevolt / Llamafluff
OpposedForce / Jahudo
Caboose / Farside22

Why Jebus were you eager to claim and not do popcorn. Did you not see the bennifit of waiting to see who picked who and then ask why they picked that person?

[farside22]

Yeah, farside pretty much answered it. Asking why someone chose that person is the real issue at hand here, especially with the ability for each person to pick either Lover A1, A2, B1, B2, etc.

So why did you pick Goat to go next for claim?

[farside22]

I made this a bit clearer if you don't mind.

1 = Zoolander / The Pope’s Tiara
2 = Jebus / 3fj
3 = Armix / kloud1516
4 = Goatrevolt / Llamafluff
5 = OpposedForce / Jahudo
6 = Caboose / Farside22


Farside votes Armix
Caboose votes Zoo
ZooLand votes Kloud
Pope votes 3fi
Jahudo votes Jebus
OF votes Caboose
Kloud votes OF
Armlx votes pope
Jebus votes Kloud
3fj votes Kloud
LF votes Jebus
Goat votes Caboose


Kloud votes Zoo
Caboose votes Goat
Jahudo votes Zoo
Zoo votes Jahudo

So far I don't believe Zoo and Jahudo are scum group together. Yes I think scum will bus scum and all that but the interplay between them tells me no they are not scum group together. I notice at one point Zoo and Kloud had 3 votes.
OF I know you are in another Poly game didn't you know they were nighless?

[farside22]

Adel replaces Jebus.

3fj and The Pope's Tiara haven't posted for 5 days, so have recieved a prod.

Oh no's must run and hide from the big bad mean woman.
I'm a bit behind and will catch up with some thoughts on this game in a bit. Thanks

[farside22]

Jebus quick claims even though some people talked about doing things popcorn style. Now I remember one game where someone was quick to claim and that person was town. I don't know if it is scummy, but it is noticeable. Post 57 is an awful idea. The point is to find scum not hope to get lucky so how. 2 miss lynches and the town losses.
@Johudo: You say that it is interesting that both Jebus and Zoo chose to reveal their partners do you think it was scummy?
Llama post 54 just uses quotes and very little to confirm his vote on Jebus. Post 68 gives me bad vibes. I think what was stated on how people interacted even for random should be noted
Kloud has made the best post of all. Post 62 is very straight forward and I felt good points for him.
Goats: Analysis of random voting might be accurate (IDK), but I don't like it personally.

I get scummy vibes from Jebus and this whole random voting and Llama/Goat pair for different reasons.

Unvote:
Vote: Llama

[farside22]

What didn't you like, my actual analysis, or the idea of random voting?

I don't know if it is accurate. I don't like the idea of it at all. The fact that you are checking it is weird. I mean really you think random voting will work because why exactly?

[farside22]

y'all should not have massclaimed.

fos:

farside

I don't agree with the no mass claim and I never will. Sorry it just doesn't make sense to me for this game not to claim.
One day you will have to sit down and just explain clearly why it is bad because I don't see it.

[farside22]

Basically yes why would you check something based on randomness? Is that the true spirit of this game? Do you really believe those votes wouldn't be manipulated in some way?

[farside22]

Basically yes why would you check something based on randomness? Is that the true spirit of this game? Do you really believe those votes wouldn't be manipulated in some way?

I mentioned why I originally checked the math in my last post. How would people be able to manipulate a randomly chosen lynch?

Look I'm scum I "randomly" choose a player that is not part of my group. Oh look I have 3 other people who are part of my group who will "randomly" choose someone that is not part of our group. Oh but make sure we aren't all on the same wagon. We will use our pair lover on on vote and you guys use your lover pair on another person and we will win before you know it. BLEK

[farside22]

The first person that takes that comment as me being scum should be shot. That is a fake conversation.

[farside22]

Nah, when we're talking about random lynches, we mean entirely randomly. As in like a dice roll, entirely free of any manipulation.

How do you know what Jebus means?

[farside22]

Considering he wasn't interested in throwing his own name in the ballot, it's definitely possible I was misinterpreting him.

This is a pretty big issue.

It got quiet all the sudden. Any other comments you want to make about Goats comment Armlx?

[farside22]

Just a question for anyone and everyone. Do you think the scum know this game is nightless? I mean don't you think that would have been part of their talks before the day started?

[farside22]

Just a question for anyone and everyone. Do you think the scum know this game is nightless? I mean don't you think that would have been part of their talks before the day started?

Well if they didn't before then they'll know now
What is the advantage/disadvantage? Even without night we can reach lylo pretty quick, and without night kills to look at and try to find motives maybe we should look for a potential scum group defending or ignoring another group since one lynched scum means the other three die too.

I don't know how much opinion I can give to Llama and Opposed Force's back and forths. Maybe Llama is twisting that original post in question to get a different conclusion but I'm not sure. I gotta re-read.

I'm growing more concerned by those not posting, particularly the partner of Jebus who has had plenty reason to stay in the shadows. 3fj hasn't posted since his original random vote. Nothing game related since and definitely nothing when Jebus was being accused.

Vote: 3fj

I asked because of the fight between Llama and OF. OF at one pointed stated he didn't know the game was nightless. I think that would have been something known by scum members during the pregame talks. I could be wrong.

[farside22]

I asked because I felt split on OF's comment. I wanted to knock OF off my scum list just for the comment alone then I started debating with myself. (Don't you love paroid mafia). Anyways I can't believe Adel of all people is using the newbie card for anyone.
I don't like meta, but seriously Adel when have you givin a newbie a break?

FOS: Adel.

[farside22]

Seriously, the quicktopic chat is funny. Jebus honestly thought it was a good idea for the town to random lynch both days. He even used fractions to "prove" it.

Since you are talking about it. How many post were made between the lovers to discuss this proposal?

[farside22]

I have been prodded. Sorry about that. I'm a bit busy today. I owe this game time.

[farside22]

Sorry busy morning. I will get to this game today. I promise.

[farside22]

I will be honest. I voted for Llama because something about him struck me as scummy. It is more of a meta, but I just had that gut feeling that Llama/ Goat is scum. I can't shake the feeling no matter how hard I try. I find it odd that Adel would post her comments made and what the 2 people said (which what they said is incredibly scummy) but the fact she left those scummy comments in there where she could have made the whole thing up seems like WIFOM. I give Adel all the credit in the world when it comes to some things even if the conversation was just weird I can't imagine scum sharing a conversation for us knowing the votes would go against them. I just can't see it. I will go back more and point to what bugs me about Goat/ Llama and look at other things sometime tomorrow.

[farside22]

Adel could you do a vote chart for me please. I need to read through some things and a vote chart helps me.

[farside22]

Fine, can we all agree to not hammer until the chart is done then?

give me two unvotes and five calander days, and I will do one.

I'm not voting for you and if Caboose was around I will tell him to unvote you.

Mod: Caboose prod please.

[farside22]

unvote Empking, vote armlx

but I would rather wagon Empking

I thought you were going to do a chart. Did you change your mind?

[farside22]

Sorry about that. I need a read. Not feeling to good at the moment however.

[farside22]

I still like lynching Adel.

This.

I'm starting to wonder about Adel. Who do you think is there scum partners if Adel is scum?

[farside22]

With three days to go until deadline ti is looking like my odds for survival are slim.

This is a setup that sharply penalized towns that go for the lazy day 1 lynch.

I really hope that all townies give some thought to the posts I've made since the diagram I posted. The reason I kept on asking who could possibly be scum with me was because, as I see it, each other townie couple should be able to conclude that there is one and only one other couple that I could possibly be scum with. By lynching that couple, my townieness could be confirmed. I was hoping for some clear thinking and good posting by other townies, but that isn't happening. I do not like the shift from Empking to armlx, but I am supporting the armlx lynch because he is not me. Empking is not an "easy mislynch" and my opinion of his alignment is not based off of the formatt he uses to make his posts. At this point, that seems to be splitting hairs, when the majority of the town seems to be unaware that my wagon is leading to a pretty obvious mislynch.

Bussing in this game is suicide, and Empking placed me at lynch -1 without

anyone

doing anything to defend Mana_Ku and me.

It is horribly ironic that the townies on my wagon are making the same mistake that Jebus made: not understanding the set-up.

I agree with you Adel, but my problem is I'm a lone voice in this maddess.

[farside22]

I'm starting to wonder about Adel. Who do you think is there scum partners if Adel is scum?

One of the groups with 1 vote on Adel.

Scum would let someone hammer their scum buddy? This late in the game with deadline? RLY?
That's some good crack your smoking you want to share?

[farside22]

Jenethron: Do I know you from another game or something? I see you state you think I'm vocal and if you are trying to meta me. I suggest not since I play different no matter my alignment.
I really need a read of this game.

[farside22]

vote: farside

read up and post lots, please.

Especially as I defended you. Nice

[farside22]

Jenethron: Do I know you from another game or something? I see you state you think I'm vocal and if you are trying to meta me. I suggest not since I play different no matter my alignment.

Apologies. You are right that in order to get an effective meta, I will need to look at a game you have completed as town and scum. Give me a day or two. In one game I was reading you were distinctly more active, however. Clearly, as you state, this is insufficient.

Meanwhile, I'm becoming increasingly more nervous about Adel's play.

don't buy her crap excuses.

farside has an average of 14 posts a day on this site since she joined mafiascum.

if you go to http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... =farside22 you can see how many posts she makes in other games in between her posts in this game.

She has made more than 75 posts since Sept. 4th.

She is lurking in this game.

I was also more active in the last Poly game we were in and I was scum.

FOS: Adel

For poor logic. If you do meta on me your results will be faulty.

[farside22]

Here is the game in question by the way:

viewtopic.php?t=8448

FYI: I'm not lurking for some reason some games are just hard for me to get thru. My other problem is I'm trying to rid myself of my thoughts on Llama as it is meta more then anything else. I don't always agree with Meta, so people put it on themselves and some times it works. I don't want to stand on this meta feel and I just can't shake it.
To explain a bit. I learned Llama is not one who enjoys being mafia. When he asked to be replaced when I probbed that bothered me a lot as he too is a big time poster. Him lurking and asking to be replaced has yet to really left me feeling good.

[farside22]

Farside, at this moment that isn't the point to me. I leave this discussion to you and Adel for now. However, we all received if I'm correct that there would be in 24 hours a deadline. If you received it, then why didn't you check this game. I've been some time online and I saw you post in other games during these 24 hours. Can you explain this?

this pairs nicely with my point. Why hasn't farside been posting in this game since I became active in it? She has found plenty of time to post in other games... and we did have a deadline and

three close wagons to choose between

~~~

@armlx: I like this setup because it is an elegent puzzle where in order to catch scum you have to first figure out who can't be scum with whom and who is town. There simply isn't enough days in this game for attrition to reveal who is scum, townies have to use logic to have a chance.

Leaving you alive makes it easier for other townies to "crack" this game since it should be pretty obvious that you and I can't be scum together.

Simply put I didn't agree with the Adel lynch and I had no time to read to see what was going on with the SC lynch. Also if you look at my post on Saturday I posted mostly in 2 game. One I mod and the other in a large game with a quick answer. Weekends are typically busy.

[farside22]

check out http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... &start=325
he has made 335 posts on mafiascum.net since his last post in this game.
he posted an incredible amount of posts (more than 50) between his last post in this game and when Empking replaced him.

That link isn't working for me.

I'm going to take your word for it and assume you're correct about him posting frequently in other games, though. I still don't see how that can be used to imply he's scum. Some games are simply more interesting and easier to post in than others regardless of alignment. Open 70 shows that metagaming Llama as more lurky and posting less frequently as scum is flawed.

This is why I dislike meta on people. It just could be that as I am having my own problems with this game.

[farside22]

I'm going thru and reading the game fully right now. I have to get some stuff done at work. I'm on page 8 and a few things I wrote for right now.
I will finish this tomorrow.

Llama/ Empkin: Post 68 didn't like the analysis of the votes from people. Post 118 Llama explain how he usually is in games so hey he meta'ed himself.
Goat: Post 70 I still can't believe he did the analysis on random votes.
Kloud: Post 112 I never realized till he appologized that he is hardly around. Just something noteworthy. Post 139 I don't know how you expect Adel to answer to someone else's thought process.
Jahudo: Post 135 lurker hunting in this game when everyone is doing a bit of it seems off. Post 167 even though I agree for some reason people who don't question players sanity of a bad plan always rub me wrong (yes I'm a hypocrite here)
Adel: Post 141 Still say I never see you give any newbie any slack in any game. Post 152 I want proff that you give newbies a break as I have yet to ever see it.


The question I asked in regards to OP had both goat and Armlx state that is maybe a town tell. (question was do people think the mafia would know this was a nightless game and be part of the talks)
Another interesting interaction is watching Kloud, Armlx and Goat all attacking Adel and her comment about Jebus plan.

[farside22]

I think I figured it out.

Adel knows this set up better then anyone. She would know to mention the "every other group voting them" town tell as scum. Said tell only came into effect when EmpKing voted her.....

Calling it now, Adel/Mana/Goat/Emp scum group.

I was thinking this myself, but leaving a scum buddy on L-1 for so long without concern about a hammer seemed farfetch.

[farside22]

my scum suspects are:

kloud/armlx, goat/empking.

Adel/ ?
Sorry I forgot who her lover was on this, but she is my third choice here. And yes I do see the back and forth between goat and armlx, but I tried to bus my own scum partner day 2 a bit last game so in this case it means squat.

[farside22]

I have a thought. What if we talk about are quick topics.
We state how many lines of talk were stated and paraphrase what the talks were about. Each lover should say what it is that they talked about.

For example I tell you how many post made not including the mod's comment. I state (paraphrase) what I said in the link. My partner states how many post made not including the mod's comments and paraphrases his comments back. If everyone does this we may catch the scum in a lie.

Any objections?

[farside22]

I am against that on principle, but if the mod lets us I'm all for it.

Adel already made her comments in thread. You didn't object or have issues then.

[farside22]

I'm against it on principle also, but I can't stop you from doing it.

Be warned, though, I will be strict with the quoting rule.

As I said paraphrase the best you can.

[farside22]

The next person to claim how many posts were in the QuickTopic gets modkilled. You can paraphrase what was said, but don't quote it. Claiming the exact number of posts you made is close to quoting what was said, so I'm serious about this.

This rule was instated by the mod when I played Polygamist Mafia Open 76. I shall like to instate it here also. Word for word.

Fair enough.
So paraphrase your quicktopic. Like I said though each lover should claim what it is they said in the topic.
Any other objection?

[farside22]

I don't foresee this being a huge help in catching scum, but I don't see any actual downsides, so it's definitely worth a shot. Part of me feels that this goes against the spirit of the game, but I can save that discussion until post-game.

How do we want to handle the issue of replacements who were not actually around for the pre-game discussion? I can see pros and cons to having the replacements post the chats as well as players who have been here all game. Thoughts?

How this helps:
By having the person state what they said during the quick topics time can verify a few things and may catch scum slipping up to make something up.
Replacements can't answer why what was said, but them paraphrasing for the person they replaced can help too.
Manu sorry didn't realize you were Adel's lover. I am now fully informed.

[farside22]

By having the person state what they said during the quick topics time can verify a few things and may catch scum slipping up to make something up.

I don't see how this helps, given anyone can fake a quick topic to fit how they played after the fact. I also feel that this is a diversion from the actual game and won't help us as much as analyzing the game posts.

The scum need to be very creative to do this. Heck I'm even willing to go first. I think if Goat's partner doesn't show up soon Goat should just go first. I'm fine with Armlx or myself. I don't care, but give it a shot. It's better then the random lynch that Jebus was talking about yesterday.

[farside22]

Ok, well this is the rule:

Rule addition: The next person to

claim how many posts

were in the QuickTopic gets modkilled. You can paraphrase what was said, but don't quote it. Claiming the exact number of posts you made is close to quoting what was said, so I'm serious about this.

So, although the type of thing I was after is what MK said, I admit there was ambiguity, and Empking was not under the impression he was rulebreaking.

No more post numbering, or anything, please.

As has been said, this game deserves a proper ending.

Updating this rule on the front page again...Please don't make me modkill anyone.

Thanks mod.
We need to be careful about this.
Now my problem with empking's comments is that Llama is usually a lot more talkative then that. Perfect couple, not much to say. That just sounds bland for Llama.

[farside22]

I said hi to my partner. He was a no show. Said hi again. I mentioned the idea of claiming saying I'm for claiming, but most people don't like it. Talked about watching people who clump together.
I stated not to worry about claiming right now and just look for scum.
That's it in a nut shell.

[farside22]

Oh I think Goat needs to claim next

[farside22]

Doesn't Goat decide who goes next?

Yes that is what popcorn is.

[farside22]

Uh I'm sorry but

Pairs

should claim.

Its idiotic to give 1 pair two popcorns and 1 pair no popcorns.

I know what popcorning is but what Farside did was just passing the buck.

Care to explain how I passed the buck because if I remember correctly Llama's replacement talked about their talks, but Goat never said a word. Someone stated I should say what me and my lover talked about and I did. I think Goat should have talked about what him and his lover talked about next, but someone wanted Caboose to go next. So explain how I passed the buck?

[farside22]

Simple, Goat had to c;laim as soon as he was able. You choosing Goat changed nothing apart from making it so goat chose who goes next.

That's how you passed the buck.

I didn't see goat's claim.

[farside22]

Simple, Goat had to c;laim as soon as he was able. You choosing Goat changed nothing apart from making it so goat chose who goes next.

That's how you passed the buck.

I didn't see goat's claim.

Just read back. Goat did not claim chat talks only his partner did.

By the way if you ever play a game with Llama you would understand what I mean by that conversation seeming bland.

[farside22]

The point is that you said that

Pairs

should claim. However, you say this after Caboose and Farside have claimed. Now we go back to Goat and your accusing me and farside about strawmanning and being scum partners.
Besides, I only said that Goat hadn't claimed and that he should be next. Where is the strawman?

QFT. I didn't see us as doing pair and I would like Goat to state the conversation.
If I pick again then I will say Armlx should go next, but I still think Goat needs to chime in.

[farside22]

Simple, Goat had to c;laim as soon as he was able. You choosing Goat changed nothing apart from making it so goat chose who goes next.

That's how you passed the buck.

I didn't see goat's claim.

Farside is right here. Goat didn't tell anything about his chat with Llama.
Meaning goat is next to claim.

This obviously suggests that Farside is saying that I said Goats claimed and you're saying Farside is right.

Just an FYI in case you don't know. If you hit profile you can see someone has been posting around and Goat is around should have posted his comments by now.

[farside22]

So isn't that her saying that I said Goat claimed?

I wasn't trying to have Goat pick twice. I stated I wanted him to go next to claim. you stating I was strawman is terrible. What is the point of one person claiming if the other does not. Now that Goat has claimed I picked Armlx to claim next. Goat picked the same person it is now a non issue.

God Goat can you get a muzzle for your lover.

[farside22]

Ah, I see. The issue was that farside wanted me to claim, then armlx.

How about this: Armlx claims next, then kloud claims to get the full lover team, and one of those 2 can pick the next claim?

Yes and thanks you.

[farside22]

Doing a reread. Should I go ahead and claim next since armlx just went?

Yes

[farside22]

It makes it more dificult to find scum as scum will just paraphrase their partner's fake claim.

Do you think scum did this here? What from each paraphrase looks easier/harder to the other scum lover to replicate?

1)
Empking talks about what only Llama wrote (good lover pair, not much to discuss, new players) (562)

Goat lists what he and Llama said and matching the key points of Emp's read (good lover pair, not much to discuss, bunch of new players). The only new thing I got from Goat is that they talked about looking for pairs not individuals. (621)

2)
Caboose talked about what he and Farside both said but it was based on memory and not looking at the conversation, apparently. (588)

Farside talked about her part only and went into more detail than Caboose. She repeated the clump/cluster idea and had a few more standard things to say (i'm for claiming, just look for scum)

3)
armix summarizes what both he and kloud said. (not much to discuss, look at vote counts) (626)

kloud basically restates the same thing (629)

4)
Jen writes what Op Force and I talked about (the open 76 game and claiming partners) (632)

I basically restated same thing (635)

See I was hoping people would only talk about what they said not what both their partners stated. That was why I only stated my conversation points.
The lack of conversation from armlx/kloud and llama/goat I find highly questionable knowing both people as I do. The only reason I didn't talk as much is my lover was replaced right before the game started and we had only 24 hours to talk so I made it quick and to the point.

[farside22]

Caboose was the easiest to paraphrase because Farside jumped in before Caboose could make a proper claim.

And all everyone else had to do was copy and paste what their partner said and just change names. Caboose may have lost his quick topic and should PM the mod to get the link so he can verify what he said.

[farside22]

The only reason I didn't talk as much is my lover was replaced right before the game started and we had only 24 hours to talk so I made it quick and to the point.

I'm confused. You mean Caboose replaced someone else before the game started? And in your quick chat the reason you said hi twice was because he was being replaced? Then why does it say on page 1 that you were the one replaced into the game, not Caboose?

Sorry your right I was given 24 hours because I replaced. Sorry I have another game where someone replaced. The 24 hours to talk is accurate.

[farside22]

Sorry everybody. I kind of forgot about this game for a while.

I feel kind of embarressed because I didn't keep my link. May the mod please PM me the link to my quicktopic. Thanks in advance.

Send xtoxm (the mod) a PM requesting a link.

[farside22]

The lack of conversation from armlx/kloud and llama/goat I find highly questionable knowing both people as I do. The only reason I didn't talk as much is my lover was replaced right before the game started and we had only 24 hours to talk so I made it quick and to the point.

Elaboration would be nice here. Why is it out of character for me, especially when there's no relevant info to discuss pre-game? I find this surprising as usually I'm yelled at in game for being too concise.

Had either you or kloud played this set up before this game?
You stated you just joined one, but kloud just said to look at votes. Seems like an out of the blue comment to make.

[farside22]

Sorry your right I was given 24 hours because I replaced. Sorry I have another game where someone replaced. The 24 hours to talk is accurate.

Then is it still true that in you and Caboose's pre-game chat you were the one who said hi twice to him because he was a no-show?

If you only had 24 hours after being replaced in, I find it harder to believe that you were waiting for him. I also wonder why Caboose didn't mention anything about the other pre-game lover.

Rest of room: Do you agree or disagree that this is an inconsistency?

I don't know why caboose didn't say anything. I don't recall why I said hi twice.
The was nothing said by caboose before I came into the chat room. I was the first post. So how is this inconsistent?

[farside22]

It's definitely an inconsistency.

Personally, I don't understand the claims of not being chatty. What is their to be chatty about.

You should talk about what the game is about. Things to look for. Should people claim lovers. What is the best things to look for when looking for scum. Something like that would be ideal especially from some people in this game.

[farside22]

The problem is, is that the pairs (other than yours and Armix's) were at the same skill level. They couldn't help each other.

Llama is very good in my book as town and scum. Short talks from him don't make sense.

[farside22]

The problem is, is that the pairs (other than yours and Armix's) were at the same skill level. They couldn't help each other.

Llama is very good in my book as town and scum. Short talks from him don't make sense.

I never said llama wasn't good. What would he talk about when Goat is also good?

You should talk about what the game is about. Things to look for. Should people claim lovers. What is the best things to look for when looking for scum. Something like that would be ideal especially from some people in this game.

[farside22]

Farside, I don't think you understand. As town, what is there to talk about pre-game in this set up?

How many times do I need to quote this:

You should talk about what the game is about. Things to look for. Should people claim lovers. What is the best things to look for when looking for scum. Something like that would be ideal especially from some people in this game.

[farside22]

Who is my scum partner and why Jah?

Well I'm torn between Empkin/ Goat and Armlx/ Kloud.
The question is why wouldn't you talk about the game. The question should be why didn't you talk about the game. To me those being vague on there discussion is more suspect.

Vote: Armlx

Something Goat said makes me think it isn't them. Can't explain gut feelings.
So who do I think is armlx/ kloud partner. I don't know. Something just doesn't make sense and I'm not letting it go.

[farside22]

Empking, I've posted in our other game that I have some internet problems.

I don't like Farside's last post. First of all, she didn't like Empking's posts about his idea that pairs should claim together. She thought him claiming that she's strawmanning as terrible post 622.
Second, Goat and Empking descriptions don't match. At the end, Empking said that Llama and Goat were talking about Football. Goat said that Llama and he were talking about a different game.

I'm going to

Vote Empking

. I'll give Farside one chance to explain. Otherwise, I can see a Emp/Goat-Farside/Caboose pair. As for now, I can see Empking as scum. The way he played day 1 and his attack of the fake strawman of Farside.

I wish I could explain my gut feeling on this. But lets look at what empking and Goat said:

Goat said:

Llama: Yo Goat, what's up, this should be a good team.
Goat: Definitely. We were good last time as town together.
Llama: Never played this game, not sure what to talk about.
Goat: Nor have I. I'm guessing the key is to look at lover pairs not individuals.
Llama: Agreed. I don't recognize many of the players.
Goat: I've played with a decent number of them.
Llama: [Random comments about a different game we played in.]

Empking Said:

Post 1 - Saying they're a good lover pair
Post 3 - Saying they isn't much to discuss
Post 5 - Saying they're are quite a few new players

Worded differently, but the same thing. Surprised that Llama didn't ask Goat about the players he knew to see if anyone would be easier to read then others.

[farside22]

Let's see what Empking said afterwards as well.

That's not all that was said. It was just that Llama and Goats we're talking about things unrelated to the game after that.

They said Football but I think they meant American football.

What do you have to say about 'your strawman' which Empking mentioned?

I didn't get Empking's argument. It was pointelss.
Hmm reading the comments they made I thought Goat was talking about the open game, but empking says they were talking about football. That makes no sense.

[farside22]

The question is why wouldn't you talk about the game. The question should be why didn't you talk about the game. To me those being vague on there discussion is more suspect.

Again, my question is what the hell is there to talk about. The main reason to talk to a mason/scum partner outside the thread in a normal game is information that you don't want revealed at that time. There was no information in pre-game.

Unvote, Vote farside

for making a bull shit case.

Looks like a OMGUS vote to me. Why would you not talk more with your lover knowing it would be the only chance to talk about what scum could do. What to look for and best ways to find scum?

[farside22]

The question is why wouldn't you talk about the game. The question should be why didn't you talk about the game. To me those being vague on there discussion is more suspect.

Again, my question is what the hell is there to talk about. The main reason to talk to a mason/scum partner outside the thread in a normal game is information that you don't want revealed at that time. There was no information in pre-game.

Unvote, Vote farside

for making a bull shit case.

Looks like a OMGUS vote to me. Why would you not talk more with your lover knowing it would be the only chance to talk about what scum could do. What to look for and best ways to find scum?

Because the best way (imo)

was

brought up in our discussion [voting patterns].

Why then the part in bold:

>Armlx: Forgets about discussion.

Says he replaced in to another Polygamist Mafia, but doesn't find a whole lot to base scumhunting tactics off of when it comes to set up

.
>Me: I say that I haven't had any experience with the set-up, but noticed that voting patterns were a key part in hitting scum in previous games.
>Armlx: Agrees.

Then a quick agreement? If you knew more then armlx why didn't he ask more questions on what you read or saw that would help?

[farside22]

First question is for Farside. Your pre-game chat was about looking for players who vote in clusters. Could you explain this?

Next would be why you're voting for armlx. During day one you voted the whole time for Llama/Empking. You also said that you got strange vibes from Llama/Goat. Now you get good vibes? Why the sudden switch?

@Empking/Goat. What did Llama and Goat talk about afterwards at the pre-game chat?

Mod, I don't know if you've noticed Adel's last post.

I'm requesting replacement in all of my games, including this one.
I apologize to all of you for not fulfilling the commitment I made by joining this game.

Perhaps you can understand that I want a new lover

Well I had 24 hours to talk to my lover which isn't a lot of time so I thought of the one thing that is what I notice scum would do in this type of game to be on the look out for. If I had more time I would have gone on to discuss each player.

I still don't feel good about Empking/Goat. However the interaction between armlx and goat has confused me because I was leaning that the 4 of them as scum. Which it could be and that is there way to distance from each other.
I actually want an explanination from Goat and Empking about the football comment.

[farside22]

I actually want an explanination from Goat and Empking about the football comment.

Sure. Llama mentioned football, but it fell in the "not relevant to this game" discussion bit. I was more interested in the "discussion of previous games we were in" part.

Catching up...

Why would empking only mention football and you mention the other game?
Don't say a word just yet.
Empking what was the other game that llama and goat where talking about?

[farside22]

I think farside's attack on myself/Empking and armlx/kloud based on pregame chats is weak. It strikes me as her trying to somehow extract/fabricate scumminess from the pregame chats to boost her predetermined notions of who is scum.

Personally, I would be more suspicious of the "perfect" pre-game chat than one that doiesn't contain all the discussion that good little pre-game townies should have. You can't expect townies pregame to discuss every possibly thing, and I would honestly suspect a fake if anyone did.

Scum have more to hid with there talks then a town person does.

[farside22]

I think farside's attack on myself/Empking and armlx/kloud based on pregame chats is weak. It strikes me as her trying to somehow extract/fabricate scumminess from the pregame chats to boost her predetermined notions of who is scum.

Personally, I would be more suspicious of the "perfect" pre-game chat than one that doiesn't contain all the discussion that good little pre-game townies should have. You can't expect townies pregame to discuss every possibly thing, and I would honestly suspect a fake if anyone did.

Scum have more to hid with there talks then a town person does.

Very true, but scum also have more information than townies and more to discuss. Townies don't have to hide anything, but they also have less information to discuss pre-game. You are holding Llama to a really high standard (and me by association), expecting us to discuss a laundry list of points pre-game, when in reality I know I just wanted to get in the game and see how things went. I could possibly see a higher level of expectation from someone like Adel who is well-versed in the setup, but neither Llama nor I have played this before.

Adel was not around when pre game talks were taking place.

[farside22]

Adel was not around when pre game talks were taking place.

Yep, I know. That was hypothetical.

If she had been around I would have expected her talks to be long. If you read the last poly game she admitted her night talks to be lengthy no matter her alignment.

[farside22]

I'll keep my vote against Empking. This can change if he can tell me which game they were talking about.
However, Empking never mentioned that game. Not even in his second answer.

Also farside, I wanted to hear what you meant with the clusters. Are these the lover pairs or two lover pairs together aka the four scum?

That was Goat and Llama conversation. Empking and Goat's was the same except one line. I'm looking to see why.

[farside22]

I kind of forgot about this game for a while. Sorry.

Because I see four votes on farside, one from each pair. Which means that if farside was town, scum could have finished her off. But that has not happened. Which leads me to believe that farside is scum.

That's WIFOM. You could make the argument that the scum could be avoiding to appear that they are trying for a Farside quicklynch.

P.S. - bandwagon voting isn't a scumtell

I just figured the scum decided to use the vote analysis against the town at this point. I don't have proff of this but my bet is that Armlx/ Kloud is part of it. Who is there partner is hard to tell because the votes got manipulated by the scum.

[farside22]

I agree with the principle farside is stating above. The every group tell is no longer valid.

You scare me. I dont' get you in the least. Just when I figure something about you, you throw me off balance.

[farside22]

I agree with the principle farside is stating above. The every group tell is no longer valid.

No, what I'm saying is that scum could quicklynch and win the game if farside was town, and yet they have not done that.

Lets look at the partners that are not on my BW since you bring this up.
Since Armlx post and vote. Kloud make a quick comment, but did not vote. Jenethron talks about me then states his internet is down doesn't vote. The only 2 people who have stated more that could have voted by now are Goat and Manu. To do a quick vote at this stage would have to get the 2 partners that are not posting as much to vote right now for the win. So I take Goat and Manu and that leaves Kloud and Jenethron.
There are the scum. Lets see if Kloud votes he's on more often then Jenethron I believe. However they need to cordinate but wait they can't do that and a quick vote for Kloud would look suspicious unless he see's Jenethron is on when he is.
How do I figure this. Well it's what I would do and did when I was scum in the Poly game.

[farside22]

Does anyone besides me think that it's pretty scummy that SweatpantsNinja is even making that arguement in the first place? I personally think that it's WIFOM because scum could use the quicklynch arguement in order to give themselves more credibility while they slowly add votes to Farside.

Yes and it can be taken as a que to let his scum buddies know the game is there's but I get protown vibes from Manu his lover.

[farside22]

WIFOM? Seriously, caboose, that's what you've got? What you're suggesting is that scum are refusing to

win the game

immediately, to make it easier to win the game later. Now farside's argument is at least feasible, scum may simply have not had a chance to to quickhammer.

The longer those votes stay, though, the less feasible that argument is going to get.

Just looked at Jenthron and Kloud's profile. Kloud has been around posting elsewhere since his last post on this game. Jenthron's computer went down it seems and has not posted since the 23rd. So if Kloud votes does the fact that no one quick hammer look less scummy knowing one player is out of commision? Makes it harder for the scum to do a quick hammer if one of there own are MIA.
Like I said I experience this myself in Poly game where Grimmy went MIA as well so right now the idea of scum hammering looks WIFOM to me based on the two low contributers.

[farside22]

*grumble* Bluehost ate my first post.

Just looked at Jenthron and Kloud's profile. Kloud has been around posting elsewhere since his last post on this game. Jenthron's computer went down it seems and has not posted since the 23rd. So if Kloud votes does the fact that no one quick hammer look less scummy knowing one player is out of commision? Makes it harder for the scum to do a quick hammer if one of there own are MIA.
Like I said I experience this myself in Poly game where Grimmy went MIA as well so right now the idea of scum hammering looks WIFOM to me based on the two low contributers.

Its not WIFOM. To call it WIFOM is to misuse the term. There is no benefit to scum intentionally refusing to do this. It is possible that scum are unable to quicklynch, although every player not voting for you has posted since armlx put that fourth vote on. But there's no benefit to refusing to.

Yes, that is what I've got. It seems like it's valid too:

I don't think WIFOM means what you think it means. See above.

Now, say,

this

is WIFOM:

Tell me with a straight face that I would put my alleged scumbuddy in lynching position 24 hours before deadline.

You ignored most of my point.

[farside22]

You really don't know what it means.

Not WIFOM at all. I'm saying that I wouldn't put the lynching vote on my scumbuddy with 24 hours to go before deadline in this kind of set-up, where scum bussing is suicide. If I was scum, that move would be pretty dicey, don't you think?

Indeed it would. But you might have done it for the perceived benefit of making it appear that you and armlx were not buddies. Which is why its WIFOM. To extend that, you could be doing something that is bad for your alignment to make it appear that you are not that alignment. (For the record, I agree with you, its far more likely that empking/goat are the other partners, but the point is still WIFOM.)

For scum, there is no benefit to making farside appear scum when they can win the game immediately.

IF A SCUM BUDDY IS INACTIVE THEY CAN'T DO A QUICK HAMMER.
Thanks Kloud for proving my point. Manu your TSPN lover what are your thoughts on Kloud's vote after I made a point about scum not being able to quick hammer if one is MIA.

[farside22]

They can't win the game immediately if one of their scumbuddies is inactive.

This is true, if not terribly likely. That means in order for you to be town, one of the scum must be inactive. So let me ask you this: who is the inactive scum?

I have stated 2 times that Jenethron is not online and admitted to computer problems. He came on at 4:00am if you look at his post. If he voted then without knowing when his scum buddy would be around then his vote would look suspicious. Seriously you need to read the Poly game I was scum in with Grimmy and how hard it is when someone is AWOL and not paying attention.

[farside22]

I would suggest an unvote at this time. Farside has now 5 votes with 6 needed to lynch. At this moment we have one player inactive, Jenethron, and two players who are voting someone else, me and Goat.
We now have one pair that votes Farside. If this pair is one of the scumpairs, then there is a high possibility that when Goat or Jenethron are online that one of them will vote as well. I don't want to take that risk.

This is a risky situation but it's already crushed at least one scenario: "Farside/Caboose is town AND Pants/Mana is scum" cannot be true. This certainly changes SweatpantsNinja's motives the last page or so, if you thought this scenario was true.

I'd like to see the next Goat post to crush another theory. I'm only a little worried it might be true and end the game. Farside/Caboose and Goat/Emp are my top picks right now.

But I can unvote if someone wants to debate that "Farside/Caboose are town and Goat/Emp are scum" scenario is true.

See this is what bugs me. Has anyone seen where Jahuno or Jenthan interact with Armlx and Kloud on any level?

[farside22]

Farside/caboose: If jenethron is your inactive scum, why are you voting for armlx and me, respectively?

I can not control Caboose's choice or thoughts. I disagree with him, but I can't force him to do anything.

I looked at the votes from certain people. The thoughts are from Armlx that I/Caboose and Goat/Empking scum pair and I say he/Kloud or scum pair with Jenthron/Jahudo

Here were the votes and all.

Armlx vote: pope's tira, Jebus, Adel, Llama, Goat, Farside
Llama/Emping vot: Jebus, opposedForce, Adel, farside
Farside: Armlx, Llama, ARmlx
Goat: Caboose, Citizen Karne, Armlx
Jahudo: Jebus, Zoolander, Manu(3fj), armlx, Karne, farside,
OF (Jenthron): Caboose, Llama, Adel, Karne,
Kloud: OpposedForce, Zoolander, Adel, farside22

It's obvious that armlx nor myself scum pair. At the time that Adel was at L-1 I didn't not vote for or agree with her lynch. (TSPN if you haven't read that you should) I as scum could have just fallen in line agreed and hammered Adel at the point. I disagreed with the lynch and reasons for the lynch. I don't have time this second to look at the vote counts at other times in this game. If TSPN would please unvote while I have a chance to gather data before Jenthron comes back I would apprieciate the leeway.

Armlx dodging Manu's question is noted.

[farside22]

Armlx, you asked who the inactive scum was. Farside gave an answer to it. What do you think about that?

I think its valid in the scenario she isn't scum. That's not the scenario I'm considering now.

Never mind see it was answered.

[farside22]

Why aren't

you

voting for jenethron? You can't possibly tell me you are certain that armlx/kloud is the other scumgroup. It could be goat/empking.

Why is my vote on armlx an issue?

[farside22]

Why aren't

you

voting for jenethron? You can't possibly tell me you are certain that armlx/kloud is the other scumgroup. It could be goat/empking.

Why is my vote on armlx an issue?

Also why vote on someone inactive at this time if I feel armlx and jenethron are part of the same group?

[farside22]

Why is my vote on armlx an issue?

Because your argument about lurker scum if you are town.....

My point against jenethron is based on the fact I am town and no one else is hammered. Why vote on someone who isn't here when I think you are their scum partner?

[farside22]

My point against jenethron is based on the fact I am town and no one else is hammered. Why vote on someone who isn't here when I think you are their scum partner?

So, you are sure Jen is scum, and speculating I am their partner, and you are voting me.

See the issue?

Fine:

unvote:
vote: Jenethron

Who isn't here to defend himself.

Now why hasn't TSPN done as I requested?

[farside22]

He probably thinks you are scum....

Him pulling his vote or even you to give me time that I requested does nothing but help the scum look for time needed for the quick hammer.

[farside22]

I'll take my chances. Because if you were honestly town, and honestly scumhunting, and if you honestly came to the conclusion that jenethron was the

only possible scum

, you would have changed your vote then, because you're a competent player. But you didn't.

Well then I'm not wasting my time on this game.

Good job scum

unvote:
vote: farside22

[farside22]

crap I was not expecting that.

I'm actually not surprised.

That's because Armlx knows how to push my buttons and seeing someone I believe town being stubborn about an unvote for time makes it useless for me to do any analysis. I would rather not waste my time while the scum come in and quick hammer.

[farside22]

So, um, did we win? Did we lose?

By the way in the future when your town if someone ask for time whether the person is scum or town you should give them time. You might actually gain useful information.

[farside22]

So, um, did we win? Did we lose?

I think you would know that.

I was town, hoping to catch Goat not-hammer and realize that no scenarios could allow farside to be town. So it's emp/goat and armix/kloud. Dang.

DAMN you mean I was right the whole time about my weird vibe on Llama!!! GOD (BLANK!!!!)

[farside22]

Yeah, scum win.

We were pretty screwed once farside asked what game it was, so I figured we had to just end it ASAP. Glad kloud saw the same thing.

That's because Armlx knows how to push my buttons and seeing someone I believe town being stubborn about an unvote for time makes it useless for me to do any analysis. I would rather not waste my time while the scum come in and quick hammer.

This is very true. I apologize if I was a dick about it.

I dont' blame you. I played terrible. I just could not get into this game and I couldn't get over that naging feeling I had on Llama. Well next time I won't be so single minded even if I was right.

[farside22]

farside, you actually had a really good out in that scenario that gave away the truth. Goat also wasn't voting you, so you couldn't be sure whether Goat or Jen was the lurker scum, but as both Kloud and I were voting you we had to be scum with them unless both were.

I saw Goat pop in a bit more then Jen so I thought Goat was in the clear at that point.

[farside22]

Shortly after Day Two started, I started thinking Farside would be lynched for scum victory. I'd have found her scummy if I was town here, I think.

Thank you for making me feel better about being completely, horribly, wrong.

Gee thanks I think. Not everyone can be spectaular in every game as town.