Silent Star 1: Lunacy

[Raven Branwen]

Tbh, I win regardless of whether or not Dunnstral or Clover are scum.
I don't actually care enough to figure out who it is.

Well I do care, because if we can figure it out today the game probably ends and if not, I’ll agree to do it your way.

[Raven Branwen]

Dru made all of these posts suspecting Clover on D3, so her dying via an NK, would look worse for Clover than anyone else on the playerlist. That’s why I think there was a no kill N3.

[Raven Branwen]

Fine, Obviously I’m outnumbered. But remember what I said here today in case I’m dead tomorrow.

[Raven Branwen]

So Raven think about it like this.

We no lynch, Dunnstral gets shot. You are alive and lynch Clover.
We no lynch, You get shot. Dunnstral claims a guilty on Clover.

Like it's just the safer way to win the same way?

Unless you can tell me why this doesn't result in us winning.
I am not going to vote Clover tbh.

I am not stopping us from winning by suggesting this and I don't gain anything by being more right.

I just don’t see how Dunn makes more sense than Clover especially after he was Dru’s guess for last mafia. She only tr him because she was convinced that no kill meant mafia was dead and a two 3P scumteam.

Why doesn’t scum!Dunn kill Dru? Her mislynch has the same effect no?

No if scum!Dunn killed Dru N3 he loses the game when everyone in the game simultaneously goes "Holy fuck that's a lot of power roles"

But we mislynched her, so how is the net result of that different? Fine. I’ll vote no lynch eventhough MT or me probably dies tonight. I really don’t think I’m wrong but I obviously can’t force anyone to listen to me.

[Raven Branwen]

Dru made all of these posts suspecting Clover on D3, so her dying via an NK, would look worse for Clover than anyone else on the playerlist. That’s why I think there was a no kill N3.

If Dru is a sensible nightkill from an outsider's perspective, her reads don't matter at all. She needed to die because she was a PR that guiltied Chara. Her reads do not matter. Clover totally could have killed her-- so would I have, and so would any person as scum. Her reads wouldnt get her killed, her role would have

My point is that scum didn’t kill her. Can anyone ISO Dru, so I know I’m not actually crazy here? Thanks.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven if Clover is scum I'll stall my vote to give myself time to make you a victory graphic ok
Me and MT just want to play it safe cause we are cautious.

Dw we always win this.

A moment of brilliance paragon nom would also be nice.

[Raven Branwen]

Dunn had to leave Dru alive.
I was actively pushing the idea town had too much power.

The distraction was needed.

But she still flipped, so from Dunn’s pov, what possible difference does it make? But if you read Dru ISO. it definitely does from Clover’s.

My point is that if you’re scum!Dunn trying to cause a distraction by not killing Dru, how helpful is it really if she still gets flipped? Otoh, it’s definitely to Clover’s advantage not to directly kill her.

[Raven Branwen]

No, you all are missing my point. You’re saying that scum!Dunn didn’t NK Dru to create a distraction from the whole stacked town thing. My counter is that she still got flipped. so it didn’t really help Dunn not to kill herbut since Dru waz suspecting Clover until D4, it actually was in his interest to not directly kill her and unlike Dunn. bee eventual flip doesn’t hurt him at all. With Dunn, it’s the flip in general that looks bad, not if he had NK’d her or not, which is why I’m saying it points to Clover being scum over Dunn.

[Raven Branwen]

But she still flipped, so from Dunn’s pov, what possible difference does it make? But if you read Dru ISO. it definitely does from Clover’s.

My point is that if you’re scum!Dunn trying to cause a distraction by not killing Dru, how helpful is it really if she still gets flipped? Otoh, it’s definitely to Clover’s advantage not to directly kill her.

I don't actually think Dunn is scum that much I really think it could be either Clover or Dunn.
I just don't want you to jump through hoops in f3 to vote someone Dunn claimed an inno on.
Or rationalize a world in which Dunn faked a guilty on someone.

Like I don't want to read an entire ISO to ensure that :/

Dunn claimed an inno on Clover N2, where Dru saw that Chara was the only one to have visited Kanna, therefore that inno is null and void, because WE FREAKING KNOW CHARA KILLED KANNA.

[Raven Branwen]

I am not saying Dunn is scum.
I am saying it's a world that I believe no lynching and trusting results is worth playing around.

Raven you do understand that if Dunn claims an incorrect result that you have to kill him right?
That's like the only thing me and MT are worried about tbh.

Yea basically

I'm guessing Dunn claims an innocent on Beeboy tomorrow. You can get rid of Clover first, but you HAVE to kill Dunn after that if it doesn't end the game. Do not let Dunn get away with a fake guilty or fake inno

You guys do what you want. Your argument for Dunn scum is basically that he didn’t kill Dru for the town stacked thing. My argument is that she still got flipped anyway, so Dru not being NK’d didn’t really help scum!Dunn but since Clover was Dru’s pick for last mafia D3, Dru being mislynched > being NK’d definitely would help scum!Clover.

[Raven Branwen]

Clover not submitting a kill n2 means literally nothing.
We know Tux submitted the kill n2?

It's not an inno.

Hallelujah, someone is getting it.

[Raven Branwen]

Clover not submitting a kill n2 means literally nothing.
We know Tux submitted the kill n2?

It's not an inno.

That is correct, except it also means they didn't kill n1

Explain this? Your results only clear me N1, correct?

[Raven Branwen]

The ability applies to the night of and the previous night

Well since there was 3 scum alive N1, it could have been either Nahdua or Tux.

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: No Pressure

Spoiler:

It’s probably still Clover.

We still could have done a full ISO read of Dru but none of you bothered. :/

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: No Pressure

Spoiler:

It’s probably still Clover.

We still could have done a full ISO read of Dru but none of you bothered. :/

I wanted to wait a few days and not just rush this. Scum might as well have killed me last night but probably didn’t anticipate this.

[Raven Branwen]

Scum mech locked themselves not killing Dunn.
Or it's Dunn.

It straight up doesn't matter lol.

Why would it have hurt for someone do do a full Dru ISO before we rammed this through?

[Raven Branwen]

Scum mech locked themselves not killing Dunn.
Or it's Dunn.

It straight up doesn't matter lol.

Why would it have hurt for someone do do a full Dru ISO before we rammed this through?

If I die tonight, I want someone to promise me they will do this.

[Raven Branwen]

Scum mech locked themselves not killing Dunn.
Or it's Dunn.

It straight up doesn't matter lol.

Why would it have hurt for someone do do a full Dru ISO before we rammed this through?

If I die tonight, I want someone to promise me they will do this.

If I don’t die, I will do it. @MT, please promise me you will ISO Dru tomorrow if I’m dead? Please?

[Raven Branwen]

Sure.

Just wanted to point out Clover gave no opinion on my theory, he just straight up voted.

[Raven Branwen]

I think it's Clover.
I just don't see what I lost no lynching.

Because the case on scum!Dunn doesn’t add up like it does for scum!Clover.

[Raven Branwen]

Yeah Raven Branwen didn't make the kill, so you can bump-off me then Clover

VOTE: Dunnstral

Why didn’t you check Clover?

[Raven Branwen]

@Dunn. refresh me how your role works again. When you check someone, is it just for that night or all nights preceding it?

It would have made a lot more sense to check bee over me, since I had 0 reason to ever kill Skitter but I don’t understand why you wouldn’t check Clover?

@bee help me out here.

[Raven Branwen]

Yeah Raven Branwen didn't make the kill, so you can bump-off me then Clover

VOTE: Dunnstral

Why didn’t you check Clover?

I'm playing to the worst case scenario instead of the best case scenario

Best case scenario is clover is scum, and I do believe clover gets eliminated regardless

Worst case scenario is you were scum, and I believe you could have beaten Beeboy in limlo

But I would never kill Skitter. She was never voting me, that’s practically a soft clear. I honestly think you actually believe this makes sense though and I don’t understand why scum!you no kills N3. I think you’re probably town because you’re freaking sucidal self-sabotaging scum if you are.

I think Clover had the most incentive to no kill and Dru totally bought into the mafia must be dead thing and switch her suspicions from him to tin foil some 3P scumteam.

If it’s bee we autolose but I very much doubt that it is.

[Raven Branwen]

If you're town I don't see how scum doesn't have a role to avoid you/the watcher. Do you really believe I'm a mafia goon who just decided to leave you alive? I'm willing to listen if you think that's the case but uh, I don't see it

If you're mafia and you killed me last night, that means MT is still alive, midway is cleared, etc. Then it's just you, beeboy, Raven. And you surely get eliminated there.

No because Skitter kill softclears me because why would scum!me ever kill a slot that was never voting me? Think. God.

[Raven Branwen]

Clover why did you quick hammer with no discussion yesterday?
I told Dunn to check you because that was basically a scum claim.

I was definitely not happy about that.

Btw @MT, sorry if I was a but rattled yesterday. <3

[Raven Branwen]

I think Dunnstral as scum was to some degree playing to his out. But he also presented fair logic if he believed I was 100% town and both himself and you die anyway it didn't matter. So he might as well check Raven.
Like the logic isn't that flawed tbh, maybe I am just a sucker for people calling me town though and I was supposed to roast him.

I believe he believes it but scum!me never ever kills the slot that is 100% never voting me, so I still think it was a bad call but whatever.

[Raven Branwen]

MT isn't the kill Clover makes if leaving Dunnstral alive is worth it.
Midway is.

MT was always killing Dunnstral first.

Hello bee, wifom calling?

[Raven Branwen]

@bee, will you please unvote or I’m going to be extremely upset at you. Not kidding,

[Raven Branwen]

MT isn't the kill Clover makes if leaving Dunnstral alive is worth it.
Midway is.

MT was always killing Dunnstral first.

Hello bee, wifom calling?

When WIFOM calls I just play level 1 mafia.

You rammed through Dru and now you’re doing the exact same thing with Dunn, why do you keep rushing this?

[Raven Branwen]

UNVOTE:

Midway is conf town, I am not sure who you think is hammering but ok.

We have 6 days. Dunn checking me was suboptimal and not great reasoning but that doesn’t necessarily make him scum. Why does scum even have a role like Dunn’s? Have you considered that?

[Raven Branwen]

If Dunnstral flips scum then I don't have to feel like shit about lynching Dru.
Because my entire theory on Scum needing to be in the PR claims would be correct.

As soon as I back down on that, I basically lynched Dru to fulfill half a theory.

I want to win this game and you don’t get to throw so you feel less guilty about Dru. What you do is learn and not repeat your mistake.

[Raven Branwen]

If Dunnstral flips scum then I don't have to feel like shit about lynching Dru.
Because my entire theory on Scum needing to be in the PR claims would be correct.

As soon as I back down on that, I basically lynched Dru to fulfill half a theory.

I want to win this game and you don’t get to throw so you feel less guilty about Dru. What you do is learn and not repeat your mistake.

Sorry if that’s harsh but I like to do things logically.

[Raven Branwen]

If Dunnstral flips scum then I don't have to feel like shit about lynching Dru.
Because my entire theory on Scum needing to be in the PR claims would be correct.

As soon as I back down on that, I basically lynched Dru to fulfill half a theory.

Dru was very likely framed. I wrongly believed the no kill pointed to her, so who does the no kill most likely point to? Why does scum!Dunn no kill? Even if you argue that he doesn’t kill Dru, why a no kill? That’s what I can’t wrap my brain around. Why not kill MT, me or Skitter?

[Raven Branwen]

Now, while it obviously would seem to be logical for scum!Clover to kill Dunn, it really isn’t because Clover is 100% the execution in that case, so Clover’s argument doesn’t fly.

I think he kills MT to make Dunn look bad, that’s probably what I would have done if I were in his position.

[Raven Branwen]

Who was arguing that nokill = Dru scum?

I don’t remember, probably a few people. I think MT was one. On D3, Clover was Dru’s #1 sr and pick for last mafia but when the no kill happened, she totally abandoned that in favour of a 2 3P scumteam.

@bee, how much experience do you have playing with Dunn? I have plenty and he’s a pretty decent scumplayer and I think he would know an MT kill would look bad for him. Like I said, if I’m scum!Clover, I 100% kill MT here.

[Raven Branwen]

I don't really believe in the extra scumteam theory too much and could reasonably see a scum!Dru try to get raven/skitts or beeboy/dunn exiles by no-killing and pushing that theory.

Found it

I seriously think that if scum hadn’t no killed, Dru would have never made that bizarre tin foil and might have not been mislynched. And scum!Dunn really has no incentive to make Dru look bad, quite the opposite in fact. It’s in his interest to hard defend her but he took a completely neutral approach.

[Raven Branwen]

I don't really want to deal with Raven trying to power a lynch on me again so I don't mind dying if it means I don't have to deal with that anymore.

You were in TF, you know I’m pretty good at scum, because I know how scum think. You should have killed me instead of MT or MWB even bee. Leaving me alive was your downfall.

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: Clover

I think the no kill makes the most sense if it’s you. I don’t see why scum!Dunn no kills. I also don’t think scum!Dunn kills MT.

[Raven Branwen]

mwb and bee are still alive though

I’m saying that Clover seriously underestimated me. Do you know how I won so many of my scumgames? I made all the right NAs. Remember Clover, when I won my first scumgame on MU? I chose all the NKs. I excel at judging optics.

[Raven Branwen]

mwb and bee are still alive though

I’m saying that Clover seriously underestimated me. Do you know how I won so many of my scumgames? I made all the right NAs. Remember Clover, when I won my first scumgame on MU? I chose all the NKs. I excel at judging optics.

I still 100% never kill Skitter regardless because I’m not an idiot.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven if I was scum you'd be dead because of how uncomfortable you make me. No if and or buts about it. Please do not interact with me for the remainder of the game if you can help it. If you want to push me as scum so be it, but this is a game of mafia meant for fun and you do not make this fun. I am not blaming you for this, it's probably more me then you. But I hope you'll respect my wishes.

Moving on.
UNVOTE:
Dunnstral being scum we've already debated on and it should be obvious as to why. The only scumteam that makes sense to no kill and I think we can make a good assumption to this. Is a scum team that knows a detective is in the game. Who knew this at the time? Dunnstral and Beeboy. Nothing else makes sense here on why scum would no kill. Dunnstral showing no paranoia or finding it odd that he's seemingly left alive and just getting results is also quite strange. He doesn't even consider that his results might be wrong.

The question you need to ask if you think Dunnstral isn't mafia is why does the last scum put themselves in a spot that would be nearly auto loss? It just doesn't make a lot of sense without some manner of avoiding the detective.

As for why I'm not scum I feel like the last scum would have to be pretty daring and I think I've shown that isn't me? Combine with the fact I would have to fake my day 1 and scum me would never be able to do that is surreal. Along with the matter that I would've openly let my partner die to dru knowing dru became whoever we lynched, a watcher in this case.

UNVOTE:

Alright fine, Dunn clearing me was whack.

[Raven Branwen]

Is a scum team that knows a detective is in the game. Who knew this at the time? Dunnstral and Beeboy.

Are you saying we're both scum?

Extremely unlikely, Hectic would put two scum in a PT. Midway’s role clearly means that Lillith and Star were paired with both scum.

[Raven Branwen]

Not really? It still results in Clover being killed, even if that happens after me

Wheras if I don't check you, and you're mafia, you probably run away with the game, beating beeboy

In what world do you think I ever kill Skitter, seriously? You know she was 100% never ever voting me, right?

[Raven Branwen]

The question you need to ask if you think Dunnstral isn't mafia is why does the last scum put themselves in a spot that would be nearly auto loss?

So what's the answer to this? Because this question doesn't exclude you

You tell me. You don't find this odd or strange? No questions about it at all? The fact you're being so narrowed minded about this makes me want to believe you less and less.

Is a scum team that knows a detective is in the game. Who knew this at the time? Dunnstral and Beeboy.

Are you saying we're both scum?

No? How'd you get that?

So are you pushing beeboy right now or what

If I flip wolf detective what does that mean

I haven't pushed beeboy once so I have no idea what narrative you're trying to make up right now. Did you misunderstand my words or something? If you flipped werewolf I would vote Midway

If Dunn flipped werewolf cop, then that would prove midway is clear, so why would you do that?

[Raven Branwen]

I haven't pushed beeboy once so I have no idea what narrative you're trying to make up right now.

Because you said scum would have some way to avoid my check, t hen mentioned the only people who knew who I was checking would be me or beeboy, i thought you were implying something there

While I’m pretty sure bee is town. I want to know Dunn’s reasons for hard tr him.

[Raven Branwen]

I can't see into your pt so I wouldn't know though
Obv you aren't scum but if you were and Skitter changed her opinion in the pt maybe then you'd kill her

What do you think I should have done? If I checked Clover and by chance he was town this would have been a much worse situation deciding between you and beeboy

Don’t you think scum!me kills ANYONE other than Skitter here, including you? But whatever I still think it’s you, @Clover. I think killing MT looks really bad for Dunn, which is why I don’t think he did. I don’t know who he would kill but I think it’s very likely not MT. Even if he’s scum, he’s not newb scum and based off of PoE, you make the most sense unless bee has totally fooled all of us and I don’t think so.

[Raven Branwen]

Cause it's not that scum wouldn't think that.
Scum wouldn't post that.

Why wouldn’t they?

[Raven Branwen]

I think I've changed my mind on who I want to vote 4 times now.
@Midway what do you think?

I know you’re asking midway but I still think it’s Clover > Dunn. I don’t know why him saying my sr him is making him “uncomfortable” clearing?

Being pushed always makes the recipient uncomfortable, that’s 100% NIA.

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: Clover

Going with my gut. If I’m wrong, I’ll chew on some TUMs GUMMIES.

[Raven Branwen]

Clover you realize you won't be voting out midway tomorrow...

Yet another reason. Why does Clover say he would vote midway if Dunn flips ww cop? He should have obviously said bee, since Dunn flipping ww detective clears both midway and myself.

[Raven Branwen]

The question you need to ask if you think Dunnstral isn't mafia is why does the last scum put themselves in a spot that would be nearly auto loss?

So what's the answer to this? Because this question doesn't exclude you

You tell me. You don't find this odd or strange? No questions about it at all? The fact you're being so narrowed minded about this makes me want to believe you less and less.

Is a scum team that knows a detective is in the game. Who knew this at the time? Dunnstral and Beeboy.

Are you saying we're both scum?

No? How'd you get that?

So are you pushing beeboy right now or what

If I flip wolf detective what does that mean

I haven't pushed beeboy once so I have no idea what narrative you're trying to make up right now. Did you misunderstand my words or something? If you flipped werewolf I would vote Midway

This could be 100% NIA but the kind of thinking that would overlook a Dunn ww detective flip would clear midway. is more likely to come from scum than town.

[Raven Branwen]

@bee, how much actual solving has Dunn done in the past two days? Then ask yourself the exact same question about Clover?

Dunn has been actively trying to solve both days. Clover does practically nothing yesterday and today he does an AtE and says he’d vote midway if Dunn flips ww.

In both games I played with town!him, he was actively solving. And remember when I made my obvtown Skitter case? Clover responded to that by naked voting her.

[Raven Branwen]

I can't see into your pt so I wouldn't know though
Obv you aren't scum but if you were and Skitter changed her opinion in the pt maybe then you'd kill her

What do you think I should have done? If I checked Clover and by chance he was town this would have been a much worse situation deciding between you and beeboy

While I obviously disagree with Dunn’s thinking here, this sounds like a townie thought. When I confronted scum!Dunn in a past game, he didn’t respond anything like this.

[Raven Branwen]

Raven if I was scum you'd be dead because of how uncomfortable you make me. No if and or buts about it. Please do not interact with me for the remainder of the game if you can help it. If you want to push me as scum so be it, but this is a game of mafia meant for fun and you do not make this fun. I am not blaming you for this, it's probably more me then you. But I hope you'll respect my wishes.

Moving on.

Dunnstral being scum we've already debated on and it should be obvious as to why. The only scumteam that makes sense to no kill and I think we can make a good assumption to this. Is a scum team that knows a detective is in the game. Who knew this at the time? Dunnstral and Beeboy. Nothing else makes sense here on why scum would no kill. Dunnstral showing no paranoia or finding it odd that he's seemingly left alive and just getting results is also quite strange. He doesn't even consider that his results might be wrong.

The question you need to ask if you think Dunnstral isn't mafia is why does the last scum put themselves in a spot that would be nearly auto loss? It just doesn't make a lot of sense without some manner of avoiding the detective.

As for why I'm not scum I feel like the last scum would have to be pretty daring and I think I've shown that isn't me? Combine with the fact I would have to fake my day 1 and scum me would never be able to do that is surreal. Along with the matter that I would've openly let my partner die to dru knowing dru became whoever we lynched, a watcher in this case.

Why would scum!you have to fake your D1? Everyone either got a ww or a mafia role pm, iow, everyone thought they had rolled scum. Why does Dru being mislynched townclear you? Prior to the no kill N3, you were her #1 sr. Having her be mislynched was totally optimal for scum!you but you know who it wasn’t optimal for? Dunn.

[Raven Branwen]

If Dunnstral flips scum then I don't have to feel like shit about lynching Dru.
Because my entire theory on Scum needing to be in the PR claims would be correct.

As soon as I back down on that, I basically lynched Dru to fulfill half a theory.

Case in point. This is why a Dru mislynch was terrible for Dunn but he while he never pushed it, he didn’t try hard to stop it, knowing her flip would make him look bad. None of your arguments are making sense @Clover.

[Raven Branwen]

I really would hate to think we lose because of that ridiculous no pressure thing. We’re 100% in a much worse position now, because of MT kill.

So @Clover what is your argument, @Dunn fakes a guilty on bee tomorrow and gets midway to mislynch bee? Bee is like 97% town. How do I know this? Because scum!bee would have already voted you.. Why did you say if Dunn flips ww, you were voting midwy? A Dunn detective ww flip. would confitown both midway and me, no? This read to me like a perspective slip.

I don’t understand why scum!Dunn no kills on N3. Why did Dru have you as her #1 scumread on D3? All of the other pairs were more or less tr each other but Dru scumread you as the last mafia until the no kill. Why do you think that is?

But you’re right, if Dunn is scum, then neither midway or me are clear though I really should be, since I never ever kill Skitter here.

[Raven Branwen]

My obvious fear is thanks to (sorry bee) bad no pressure decision, if we get it wrong, I’m probably dying tonight and whichever one of you is scum probably mislynches bee and loses us the game.

Why did you guys have to throw away yesterday? It 100% only served to benefit scum. It never made an iota of sense to me but MT was onboard and no one was listening to me.

[Raven Branwen]

UNVOTE:

@Dunn, you say you were worried about scum!me basically wiping the floor with bee as your reason for checking me but why not get a result on Clover?

God, I’m starting to think I was played brilliantly by scum!Dunn now.

[Raven Branwen]

What do you mean? I don't think we lost anything by no eliminating yesterday

We lost MT. Had we executed either you or Clover yesterday, we’d still be fine but without MT and if I (very likely) die tonight, we could very well be screwed and that was the main reasoning behind it, that you were supposed to investigate Clover. That was WHY we did that but instead you investigate me, making yesterday a complete waste.

[Raven Branwen]

@Dunn, why did you leave me out of your townpile after you allegedly cleared me N1? And why would you feel the need to investigate me? Town!you has never incorrectly read me since that first game we played together, so how do you not know I’m super obvtown here? I’m having real trouble buying your reasoning for being suspicious of me at all after Skitter flip. Skitter made it crystal clear in the thread on D4, that I was her #1 tr, so you had 0 reasons to think that changed.

[Raven Branwen]

Let us look at a world where Dunnstral is town. He’s basically a cop and mafia didn’t kill night 3 for..no reason? #1 We have no idea why. So now we know Dunnstral is going to check midway a person under heavy fire. Yes, Dunnstral wasn’t clear but the bottom line is he’s basically a cop that was left alive #2 The set up would be super stacked in werewolves favor even if you want to assume that the last mafia lied to their partner. Even night watch/Bodyguard/Detective/Cop/Backup vs 2 goons and ??? #3 Dunnstral also decided to check a global townread trying to go for the worst case outcome instead of the person most likely to be lynched #4 and lastly he only told his partner this when we went into night who was he was checking #5.

So if it’s not Dunnstral, whoever the mafia is basically left a cop alive risking auto loss, assuming and praying that they wouldn’t get checked instead of killing it. Along with the fact they didn’t kill randomly for reasons we don’t know about. This seems pretty odd if you ask me, and it’s a big stretch.

Now all the flaws I pointed out in the first point get solved if you look at it from Dunnstral scum.

#1 gets solved because the no kill means whoever Dunnstral checks n3 isn’t clear and no killing makes perfect sense because you know a Detective is in the game.
#2 The cop is alive because they can’t be killed and are fake
#3 He could be lying about his role for town credit. That brings up why didn’t he kill beeboy to change it and I will get into that in a moment.
#4 He knows that if I was clear he isn’t going to beat Raven in a three way because it results in either beeboy/Raven being the lynch at final 5 or himself. He doesn’t win that. Here his path is me>beeboy a much easier path.
#5 Dunnstral would’ve never got away with saying he was gonna check Raven in the public thread because that would’ve been a scum claim so he waited until night to do so when he’s alone with the person in his pocket to make it seem less scummy.

Going into more detail on why Dunnstral doesn’t kill beeboy here is rather simple for two reasons. 1) He needs beeboy as a ML down the line. 2) He doesn’t win the gamestate even without the det claim. Midway isn’t clear, but this gives him a lot more credit compared to just an empty slate. We would’ve gone for Dunnstral much sooner if it wasn’t for his claim, it kept him alive.

Cause it's not that scum wouldn't think that.
Scum wouldn't post that.

Hm? Why would scum me not tell someone to stop making me uncomfortable for how they’ve been treating me? It’s a simple request no?

God I feel so stupid now, this does make a lot of sense. Sorry Clover. :/

Dunn damn well knew the non pressure vote was precisely for him to check you and now he’s seriously asking why I think it’s a waste?

I think Clover is probably town now and I can’t believe I fell for all of that bs. Also, why investigate me over MT? It sounds really fishy to me.

[Raven Branwen]

And another thing, not a single one of Dunn’s invests have resulted in a guilty.

VOTE: Dunn

I don’t think Clover makes that case as scum.

[Raven Branwen]

Also, why investigate me over MT?

MT was with the alignment cop who checked a member of the mafia, there was no way I was suspecting there

And Skitter locktowned me so still bad argument. It’s also really convenient that MT also happens to be dead too. You know why we did the no pressure thing and it 100% wasn’t so you could investigate me. Bee clearly 100% believed you would be investigating Clover. He never would have pushed for that no pressure thing if he had any idea you would investigate me instead. You clearly misled him and in what world do you not seeing investigating me after an MT flip as the no pressure thing not being a waste of time? You investing me was 100% antitownand town!you should have opposed the no pressure thing, knowing you planned to mislead all of us. I think Clover is probably right and you know he’s town here.

[Raven Branwen]

Do what you must, just eliminate Clover tomorrow

Only if you actually do flip ww detective.

[Raven Branwen]

UNVOTE:

@Dunn, you say you were worried about scum!me basically wiping the floor with bee as your reason for checking me but why not get a result on Clover?

God, I’m starting to think I was played brilliantly by scum!Dunn now.

Because Clover always gets eliminated over beeboy in my mind

If Clover is scum and you had a guilty on him, we freaking win the game, wtf kind of argument is this even?

[Raven Branwen]

Let us look at a world where Dunnstral is town. He’s basically a cop and mafia didn’t kill night 3 for..no reason? #1 We have no idea why. So now we know Dunnstral is going to check midway a person under heavy fire. Yes, Dunnstral wasn’t clear but the bottom line is he’s basically a cop that was left alive #2 The set up would be super stacked in werewolves favor even if you want to assume that the last mafia lied to their partner. Even night watch/Bodyguard/Detective/Cop/Backup vs 2 goons and ??? #3 Dunnstral also decided to check a global townread trying to go for the worst case outcome instead of the person most likely to be lynched #4 and lastly he only told his partner this when we went into night who was he was checking #5.

So if it’s not Dunnstral, whoever the mafia is basically left a cop alive risking auto loss, assuming and praying that they wouldn’t get checked instead of killing it. Along with the fact they didn’t kill randomly for reasons we don’t know about. This seems pretty odd if you ask me, and it’s a big stretch.

Now all the flaws I pointed out in the first point get solved if you look at it from Dunnstral scum.

#1 gets solved because the no kill means whoever Dunnstral checks n3 isn’t clear and no killing makes perfect sense because you know a Detective is in the game.
#2 The cop is alive because they can’t be killed and are fake
#3 He could be lying about his role for town credit. That brings up why didn’t he kill beeboy to change it and I will get into that in a moment.
#4 He knows that if I was clear he isn’t going to beat Raven in a three way because it results in either beeboy/Raven being the lynch at final 5 or himself. He doesn’t win that. Here his path is me>beeboy a much easier path.
#5 Dunnstral would’ve never got away with saying he was gonna check Raven in the public thread because that would’ve been a scum claim so he waited until night to do so when he’s alone with the person in his pocket to make it seem less scummy.

Going into more detail on why Dunnstral doesn’t kill beeboy here is rather simple for two reasons. 1) He needs beeboy as a ML down the line. 2) He doesn’t win the gamestate even without the det claim. Midway isn’t clear, but this gives him a lot more credit compared to just an empty slate. We would’ve gone for Dunnstral much sooner if it wasn’t for his claim, it kept him alive.

Cause it's not that scum wouldn't think that.
Scum wouldn't post that.

Hm? Why would scum me not tell someone to stop making me uncomfortable for how they’ve been treating me? It’s a simple request no?

Sorry Dunn, I’m not that stupid. Skitter would have never fallen for this, no wonder she’s dead instead of me.

[Raven Branwen]

Why do you think Dunn chose to fake claim a power role?

So, he had someone to fake guilty in Elo, in this case bee.

[Raven Branwen]

UNVOTE:

@Dunn, you say you were worried about scum!me basically wiping the floor with bee as your reason for checking me but why not get a result on Clover?

God, I’m starting to think I was played brilliantly by scum!Dunn now.

Because Clover always gets eliminated over beeboy in my mind

If Clover is scum and you had a guilty on him, we freaking win the game, wtf kind of argument is this even?

But if he's not scum, and I check him we probably lose

That's why I checked you

Sorry not buying, this isn’t a townie thought. Why wouldn’t you think a Clover guilty wins us the game?

[Raven Branwen]

Raven & Midway

Are you guys going to vote clover tomorrow or what

Not if you hve misrepresented your role in any way and I think it’s rich that you seriously think I wouldn’t be the logical NK here.

[Raven Branwen]

On a 1-10 scale how predicatable was it Dunn would cop Clover over Raven?

Why would he cop me over his #1 sr? He has never incorrectly read me since our first game. No way in hell, dies he think there’s a snowball’s chance in hell I could ever be scum here. I seriously can’t believe I fell for that even for a second.

[Raven Branwen]

How is it odd to claim post 1 in your pt that people are assuming is werewolf? Not claiming post 1 would've been a lot stranger than if he didn't.

Exactly, it would have been extremely suspicious had he waited to claim. On D2, my reaction to the Lillith flip proved I was bleeding obvtown yet Dunn inexplicably left me off of his townlist. I was very pinged by that. Now it all makes sense. He obvtowned Skitter who just happens to be conveniently dead but left me off it, so he do do this bs invest on me.

The fact that Clover hard trs both me and bee is town indicative. And if game doesn’t end today, I’m going to be extremely shocked if I’m not the NK.

[Raven Branwen]

It's not my only take but it's the one I wanted to start with.

Spoiler:

I am waiting for someone to say hey hey back before I play >:(

None of those are Hey heys but I'll read up.

I am waiting for someone to say hey hey back before I play >:(

Hi!!!! you remind me of some pokemon games!

The Radja ones or something else o:

My hey heys have been satisfied.

By nature Dunnstral is a very reserved scum. I have only seen him play scum once since my return where he matched that playstyle I expected. So I want to say he is town even if his skitter push is a bit odd

Beeboy's first five posts are nothing. And I consider them a deliberate distraction because he actually demands they get attention and responses. After the thread has slowed down to just say hi and talk about fluff with him then he jumps in with a weak defense of Dunnstral.

Like he doesn't say that this game is different from scum Dunnstral he's seen. He says that "by nature" Dunnstral scum doesn't play like this. Implying he's almost incapable of it, and it's based on only one game. It feels much stronger than evidence supports.

Interesting, maybe this is this game’s equivalent of the Gamma/Mastina/DDL post I quoted from Jingle’s game. When I ISO’d Tux, I thought I read some light associatives between him and Dunn but decided not to prceed with that since I was obviously wrong on Dru.

[Raven Branwen]

UNVOTE:

@Dunn, you say you were worried about scum!me basically wiping the floor with bee as your reason for checking me but why not get a result on Clover?

God, I’m starting to think I was played brilliantly by scum!Dunn now.

Because Clover always gets eliminated over beeboy in my mind

If Clover is scum and you had a guilty on him, we freaking win the game, wtf kind of argument is this even?

But if he's not scum, and I check him we probably lose

That's why I checked you

Sorry not buying, this isn’t a townie thought. Why wouldn’t you think a Clover guilty wins us the game?

It does, but checking you should win the game as well if Clover is mafia

If Clove is mafia, what makes you think the game doesn’t end?

[Raven Branwen]

Tuxedo's push on beeboy does not clear nor convict him.

You’re missing the point. he’s slightly distancing Dunn here. How is that not obvious?

[Raven Branwen]

VOTE: drusilla

And I just see the Dru world very clearly.

okay when you learn i am a werewolf, then what? is the plan to fall on your sword since you are wrong? how is that beneficial?

Actually I believe the plan is to kill me

Beeboy doesn't need to die

So why did you vote Dru here?

There was like an approximate 6 minutes between these posts.

[Raven Branwen]

Leave me alone Dunnstral!

I've disagreed with pretty much everything you're said today

It doesn't make sense to me that you were townreading skitter day 1 and are still townreading them based on your day 1 read, when in actuality skitter was playing as if they were anti-town

And I did the exact same thing with Kanna.

[Raven Branwen]

Oh MT/Skitter if tux is town do you agree with me that the scum pairing has to be bee and Dunn? It can’t be mid unless one of star or Lilith we’re alone but that’s unlikely

Look at how Bee was treating me day 1, and tell me we are both mafia and he came out and hard defended me when we aren't really paired, and are now faking it

Which is exactly what I did with Skitter (and vice-versa).

But you still think to invest me?

[Raven Branwen]

Honestly in regard to Dunnstral flipping his play day 2 not being town indicative because "that's what scum want to do".

I feel like you just said my expectations out of town don't work because scum want to play like town. Idk I feel like my point still stands?

does my play seem the same to you today as it did yesterday?

I wasn't reading your posts yesterday

Why not?

Tone change from yesterday to now is not AI

Disagree

Again, why invest me, since my tone change was the most freaking obvious. I think mine and Skittter’s were the most obvious.

[Raven Branwen]

Tuxedo's push on beeboy does not clear nor convict him.

You’re missing the point. he’s slightly distancing Dunn here. How is that not obvious?

How? He didn't know we were grouped except for bee defending me

If you were his buddy then of course he would know that!

[Raven Branwen]

UNVOTE:

@Dunn, you say you were worried about scum!me basically wiping the floor with bee as your reason for checking me but why not get a result on Clover?

God, I’m starting to think I was played brilliantly by scum!Dunn now.

Because Clover always gets eliminated over beeboy in my mind

If Clover is scum and you had a guilty on him, we freaking win the game, wtf kind of argument is this even?

But if he's not scum, and I check him we probably lose

That's why I checked you

Sorry not buying, this isn’t a townie thought. Why wouldn’t you think a Clover guilty wins us the game?

It does, but checking you should win the game as well if Clover is mafia

If Clove is mafia, what makes you think the game doesn’t end?

It does, but checking you should win the game as well if Clover is mafia

And if he’s town then checking me, sets up bee as the Elo mislynch, because you are obviously going to invest bee. You have to and you can’t clear everyone but you. Bee is a lot easier to mislynch than I am.

[Raven Branwen]

@bee, did you have any clue Dunn planned to invest me over Clover? It looks to me like you had no idea, which is super pinging.

[Raven Branwen]

Checking the most obvious townie player in the game is just a cheep excuse to not give a good result that would make it so Dunn can't ML one of me/Bee. Aka, the only way Dunnstral could avoid basic auto loss was to come up with some weird reason to investigate Raven. He only made this claim to Bee in the PT because he knew no one would let that fly otherwise.

+1

I find it super fascinating that that all of the reasons he gives to hard clear bee, also apply to me but yet he still needs to check me?

If Dunn was town here, he would have been hard defending me on D2, yet he puts Skitter on his townlist but inexplicably leaves me off of it. Oh and shocker, she’s NK’d and so is MT yet I’m the invest over you?

He sr you for presumably playing differently but Dunn wasn’t playing too much differently from his D1 but I 100% was, so on what basis did he leave me off of his D2 townlist?

[Raven Branwen]

Intent

I knew.

When did you know?

[Raven Branwen]

We can't let Dru's death be in vain. We can win this together

I am still livid that Dunn thinks I’m this much of an idiot and I did almost fall for it.

And @bee, you know what’s even more embarrassing then mislynching Dru here? Mislynching Clover for the second game in a row despite him being one of initial strong trs.

[Raven Branwen]

Intent

I knew.

When did you know?

When he said.
"I am going to target Raven"
I said don't a few times.
He gave his explanation.
I said doing it gets me killed in particular.
He said he would take responsibility for it which tbf he is doing

No, I want to know WHEN he posted this, before or after yesterday’s hammer?

[Raven Branwen]

What do you two plan to do tomorrow? Midway and Raven

Why do you keep acting like if game doesn’t end, I’m not the most logical NK here?

[Raven Branwen]

I don't recall scum reading clover in a single game I've played outside this one.
Where I backpeddled and said if they are scum they are a god

Please this is important. Did you know he was investing me BEFORE or AFTER yesterday’s hammer?

[Raven Branwen]

Tbh Dunn is so content on dying right now idk.
He isn't saying I knew for like no good reason to shift pressure off himself.
And his only real angle is killing Clover after himself.

Like I guess it's a last ditch effort since the battle extends beyond today?

If he acts even remotely survivalistic, he knows it’s game over.

[Raven Branwen]

After the hammer

Aha! Knew it! I think I’m extremely happy with my vote now.

[Raven Branwen]

Scenario had we mislynched Clover

******************************

Dunn dejected with a heavy heart

:

I was so sure it was him. (Everyone rolls their eyes). I have some really devastating news. I invested bee last night and . . .

midway (since I’m likely dead)

: Beeboy is scum?

Dunn

: I’m afraid so, that brilliant connving scumgod

RadiantCowbells

beeboy totally fooled me and took advantage of my trust. How could he did this to me? How did he play me so convincingly?

bee (eyes rolling out of head)

: He’s lying scum, Clover’s flip proved that.

Dunn (sighing)

: You know this hurts me more than it hurts you.

(votes bee)

Suddenly Nahdia re-enters the game skittering into the thread with two hugmongous ravens perched on her shoulders:

Nahdia

: Fear me, I am your queen, the mother of Ravens.

The Ravens start pecking at Dunn.

Dunn (in complete exasperation now)

: I have to be true to my master.

The ravens make a beline for Hectic who is long gone now sipping margaritas on some luxurious tropical island estate laughing his ass off.

The End

[Raven Branwen]

Mod PT

- A bit of commentary from us

Mafia PT

- Removed the posts where they roasted all the players

Dead & Spectators

- They could see everything

Chara/Tuxedo Mask & lilith2013

- Friendship and betrayal

Dunnstral & beeboy

- More friendship and betrayal

Nahdia & Starbuck/votato

- Friendship and confessions

Morning Tweet & Kanna

- An iron bond and a quality scumteam

drusilla & Clover Ebi

- Revelation, paranoia, and regret

skitter30 & Raven Branwen

- Wholesome. Won't be released as per request

Nahdia/Star/votato, Dunn and bee, Chara/Tux/Lillith are showing up as “unauthorized”.

[Raven Branwen]

Mod PT

- A bit of commentary from us

Mafia PT

- Removed the posts where they roasted all the players

Dead & Spectators

- They could see everything

Chara/Tuxedo Mask & lilith2013

- Friendship and betrayal

Dunnstral & beeboy

- More friendship and betrayal

Nahdia & Starbuck/votato

- Friendship and confessions

Morning Tweet & Kanna

- An iron bond and a quality scumteam

drusilla & Clover Ebi

- Revelation, paranoia, and regret

skitter30 & Raven Branwen

- Wholesome. Won't be released as per request

Nahdia/Star/votato, Dunn and bee, Chara/Tux/Lillith are showing up as “unauthorized”.

And the dead thread links directly to mine and Skitter’s PT.

[Raven Branwen]

Subject: Silent Star 1: Mafia PT

I may have messed up with my actions and claimed result

Now my path to victory involves lynching Raven Branwen, which should be considerably difficult and probably won't happen

gg everyone. @mod, keep me on your future games list. @Clover deserves a moment of brilliance nom for putting together the pieces. Hadn’t he had done that, this game might have ended very differently.

[Raven Branwen]

Mod PT

- A bit of commentary from us

Mafia PT

- Removed the posts where they roasted all the players

Dead & Spectators

- They could see everything

Chara/Tuxedo Mask & lilith2013

- Friendship and betrayal

Dunnstral & beeboy

- More friendship and betrayal

Nahdia & Starbuck/votato

- Friendship and confessions

Morning Tweet & Kanna

- An iron bond and a quality scumteam

drusilla & Clover Ebi

- Revelation, paranoia, and regret

skitter30 & Raven Branwen

- Wholesome. Won't be released as per request

Nahdia/Star/votato, Dunn and bee, Chara/Tux/Lillith are showing up as “unauthorized”.

And the dead thread links directly to mine and Skitter’s PT.

This is fixed, I think the others are unauthorised in case they want to request any redactions before release

No, the dead thread still links to mine and Skitter’s PT.

[Raven Branwen]

We were aware that how quickly town figured out the twist would be very important to the balance, but didn’t think it would swing this townsided if they got it on D2 and were prepared to openly scumclaim by then. We tried to redress that a little bit by letting dunn decide on the flavour but it was kind of a last minute redress of the swing. You have a point about the neighbourhoods too, I think, although the beeboy hood worked in Dunn’s favour by letting him get a good pocket, the others didn’t generate paranoia, everyone sort of just locked into “well my partner is town, it must be someone else’s partner who’s scum” which wasn’t (I think I’m right in saying) the intention of the hoods

I hope you enjoyed the game anyway, nahdia

I actually think Star and Lillith we’re screwed right out of the gate and I feel really bad for both of them. You believe you and your partner share the same faction, so of course as a ww, you are open and honest and share everything. That’s why Skitter and me, MT and Kanna absolutely trusted each other. Can’t really speak for Dru’s paranoia on Clover though and it unfortunately influenced me after her flip. But as ww Prs wrongly believing they could trust their partners - not knowing their Pr reveals made them immediate targets, neither ever stood a chance. Both were doomed from the start.

[Raven Branwen]

only if you're clickin it from the quote. click it from the original post 3586

Yeah thanks. Btw, did you enjoy my alternative ending with the GoT flavouring? I howled when I saw that raven gif btw, especially after I read you use “skittered” as a verb.

[Raven Branwen]

a thing of beauty.

we shoulda just pushed the mayor down the well and lived happily ever after to start.

<3

I probably let Dunn off too easy. What do you think?

[Raven Branwen]

We were aware that how quickly town figured out the twist would be very important to the balance, but didn’t think it would swing this townsided if they got it on D2 and were prepared to openly scumclaim by then. We tried to redress that a little bit by letting dunn decide on the flavour but it was kind of a last minute redress of the swing. You have a point about the neighbourhoods too, I think, although the beeboy hood worked in Dunn’s favour by letting him get a good pocket, the others didn’t generate paranoia, everyone sort of just locked into “well my partner is town, it must be someone else’s partner who’s scum” which wasn’t (I think I’m right in saying) the intention of the hoods

I hope you enjoyed the game anyway, nahdia

I actually think Star and Lillith we’re screwed right out of the gate and I feel really bad for both of them. You believe you and your partner share the same faction, so of course as a ww, you are open and honest and share everything. That’s why Skitter and me, MT and Kanna absolutely trusted each other. Can’t really speak for Dru’s paranoia on Clover though and it unfortunately influenced me after her flip. But as ww Prs wrongly believing they could trust their partners - not knowing their Pr reveals made them immediate targets, neither ever stood a chance. Both were doomed from the start.

I think the counterpoint is that very accurate PR killing early on implicates the partners, and before the twist is revealed there’s the option for the scum to simply try to manipulate the PRs into bad shots instead of eliminating them. I think the play of knowing that immediately meant that killing them was a valid option, but I don’t think all scumteams would have chosen to go down that route and I think the manipulation option would also have been viable

If I’m mafia in this setup, I 100% want the ww PRs dead asap and Nahdia and Tux didn’t get executed because of their respective connections to Star/Lillith. It was a happy accident for town that Kanna copped her and as for Tux, his slot got executed be he was being very obviously scummy.

if we hadnt killed the known PR's ASAP then the faction cop would have been even worse for us :c

i did have fun with this game btw. scumposting day 2 was a lot of fun.

+1

Yes exactly. You’re tinfoil was the highlight of the game for me.

[Raven Branwen]

Maybe just not have the backup?
If scum make the choice to kill the power roles and make themselves look worse.
Then the watcher doesn't come back to haunt them anyway.

And in that world town is still left with a cop.

Nahdia was just unlucky, Tux was super scummy. As for Dunn, don’t know how I missed it the first time around but both that hammer and his explanation for it was a blatant perspective slip. What scum deliberately tries to look scummy? Scum is supposed to try to look as townie as possible, so I’m baffled as to how we all missed that when he first posted it.