Mini 624 - Game Over!

[Battousai]

Geraintm

what did you mean by "If I'm naive, then scum will not kill me because they are afraid of my results"?

If I'm naive, the scum would not be afraid of my results, thus lynching me would be like lynching a vanilla townie to them. (This was before mass claim, thus power roles could have been hidden still)

which post did i edit though bat??

This goes back to D1, I believe I read it during my initial read through.

Original Post:

unvote

vote - dark wingstalker

Certainly Wumbo's inaction after his serious business comment rubbed me the wrong way, and the bandwagon developed from there, but wingstalker, was it really called for to put him at L-1? I played in a game where a townie hammered himself just because, and that was wack. Why risk it? And the "I'm gonna give you 12 hours to respond" ultimatum is lousy for an L-1 vote. In my experience, people who do this can just say that the response was insufficient, knowing good and well that they've decided beforehand to vote for the person. We wanted pressure, you wanted to make an easy lynch.

Your Post:

Indeed I do.

unvote: Tom

btw. Lulz phase over, serious business now.

You said this and did nothing in terms of serious business. I'm okay hopping on this wagon.

unvote

vote - wumbo

unvote

vote - dark wingstalker

We wanted pressure, you wanted to make an easy lynch.

yeah, you had great reasons...well, i dont think they were that great, more oppotunistic

Brought up here:

^^^^^^Except you just cut out like 7/8ths of my explanation for dark wingstalker's vote. What's up with that?

[StrangerCoug]

Ok, as promised, my thoughts

I said I wanted to hammer, but whatever.

why? why did you want to hammer so badly. if you wanted to vote, then you should have

I was pretty sure that Inspector Godot was scum and not nhat, but I wasn't confident enough for a vote. Nobody likes lynching a claimed power role, but it's already had to be done twice. chenhsi was speedlynched because he failed to contribute much to discussion and maxwellhouse countered him. They both ended up being cops. As for nhat and Inspector Godot, they didn't claim the same role, but they still conflicted (nhat claimed Inspector Godot killed imaginality, while Inspector Godot claimed to have reported on that same person the night he died). Because Godot flipped scum, Wumbo is not cleared.

All right, fine! I don't care if I'm royally screwed over; I want to do something to move the game along, damn it!

Unvote: StrangerCoug
Vote: Wumbo

Stop sitting there.

huh, did you vote for wumbo because bat is claiming either you or wumbo is scum?

No; Wumbo wasn't contributing to discussion and hadn't been for a good part of this game.

Unvote: Wumbo

for the moment. Now engage in discussion.

I find even three cops hard to believe, Cass. If there are four cops, then there

MUST

be one sane, one insane, one paranoid and one naïve. If there are three cops, then I don't think we have both a sane and an insane cop.

I do believe the roleblocker should claim if he's town, as I believe. If there is a mass claim and the roleblocker doesn't claim such, then I'm pretty sure whoever the roleblocker is is scum.

why do you think there is a roleblocker wh is town? with so many investigation roles, seems only fair that the scum get a blocker to try and even things out.

This was basically given that I was blocked Night 2 but not Night 3. It turned out I was wrong—as we all now know, the roleblocker is scum (and/or, as Cass brought up, I'm scum, but I know what I am ). As I said, I wasn't 100% sure anyway.

Four cops, a tracker, a forensic investigator and a town roleblocker against only at most four (and probably three) scum? I find that very difficult to believe.

I find it hard to believe too, but I said I

THINK

the roleblocker is town (he or she may be scum). I also think Battousai is lying.

whoa whoa whoa
bat is lying? why is he lying? why are you voting for him? i dont see why you are, you havent explained at all!

As I've said over and over, I find three cops

VERY

hard to believe. Four cops, a tracker, a forensic investigator, and a roleblocker is already seven players out of twelve with power roles, and I don't think there are that many.

If there are three cops, the two sanity distributions that I see most likely are sane/naïve/paranoid and insane/naïve/paranoid. Two cops, one sane and one insane, isn't exactly likely, but I do find it believable.

What's that one type of theme game where all the townie roles are cops with differing sanities?

S/N/P i can buy
I/N/P i find hard to believe, that basically cripples the town with 3 cops who are all getting wrong/unhelpful results doesnt it??[/quote]
I assumed the insane cop in an I/N/P distrubution would live long enough to find this out and report the opposite result from then on, but S/N/P does make better sense than I/N/P.

Sorry for the posting spree; I'd been waiting for quite a while to put my thoughts down I have to agree that StrangerCoug has said and done some weird things.

@Stranger:

Let me tell you guys that I am a tracker and that maxwellhouse did indeed investigate Dark wingstalker Night 1 (the latter of which we all know xD). I tried to track Cass Night 2, but got roleblocked. Litral did not submit a night choice Night 3.

1) Why did you investigate me night 2? Why Litral night 3? Can you paraphrase the results the mod pm-ed you night 2 and 3?

I already paraphrased my results (and you quoted them!) and I already answered why I investigated Litral. As for tracking you, I did so for the same reason that Battousai claims to have—you want maxwellhouse dead over Dark wingstalker.

I think the roleblocker is town and blocked me by mistake trying to block the Mafia, but I'm not 100% sure.

2)Why did/do you think the roleblocker is town?

See above.

Since Battousai effectively counterclaimed me, Vote: Battousai.

He didn't, you misread, but even so:
3) There are multiple cops in this game. Why couldn't there be multiple trackers?

Trackers don't have variant sanities, so I'm almost positive I'm the only one. In addition, there can only be so many power roles for the game to still be balanced.

Have you ever misinterpreted what you thought was a counterclaim against you? That's what I'm guilty of, and I know what that means; therefore, my vote stands. Now kill me.

No, I haven't, but if I had, I'm pretty sure 'kill me' would

not

be my response.
4) I still don't get why you felt obliged to vote yourself after a simple misunderstanding. Nothing disastrous happened, as far as I can see. Care to explain your thought pocess a bit more?

Panic attack, which I'm pretty prone to town or scum.

All right, fine! I don't care if I'm royally screwed over

5) Why would you be royally screwed over?

Panicking is a scum tell, which I know I'm guilty of and which was what I was referencing.

6) Why did you unvote Wumbo again, so soon after you voted him?

Pressure vote to get him to contribute, which he doesn't seem to want to do.

I'm not against a no lynch if we have no other information to gain today, but right now we should be trying to find the third and most likely final scum. I'm going to vote: Battousai again for the time being, but no lynch should be a last resort here.

7) Yet you say you think Batt's a liar in that same post. Why would you support a no lynch then?

I didn't. I said I'm not against it

IF

there's no other information to gain today. There is. Don't misrepresent me.

I am against massclaiming.

8) Why? Seeing as you started the claiming today.

One of the last things nhat did before he did was cast suspicion on me for not exactly wanting to kill Dark Wingstalker and Inspector Godot, which is true.

Meaning geraintm is the roleblocker and/or the roleblocker is scum (assuming, of course, it exists).

9) Why would you doubt the existence of a RB? Your own credibility depends on the presence of one...[/quote]
I know, and I believe the roleblocker exists. I said that because I'm not confirmed and I'm as equally likely to be scum as anybody else (at least ignoring power roles).

I was afraid I blew it. That's all I'm going to say.

10) How mysterious. You sure you can't say anything more?

About whether or not I was counterclaimed? I'm sure there isn't anything else I can say.

If there are three cops, the two sanity distributions that I see most likely are sane/naïve/paranoid and insane/naïve/paranoid. Two cops, one sane and one insane, isn't exactly likely, but I do find it believable.

11) That sounds as if three cops is more likely than two cops. Yet you think Battousai is lying. Why?[/quote]
Again, misrepresentation. I said "if", meaning I either am not 100% sure about it or I don't 100% believe it. In this case, it's the latter.

Minor FoS: Cass.

I see two cops more likely: either sane with another variant sanity or insane with naïve or paranoid.

12) How do you feel about lynching Wumbo today?

I'm pretty sure there are better lynches than Wumbo at this point despite his lack of contribution.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: Two of the quote boxes should be:

If there are three cops, the two sanity distributions that I see most likely are sane/naïve/paranoid and insane/naïve/paranoid. Two cops, one sane and one insane, isn't exactly likely, but I do find it believable.

What's that one type of theme game where all the townie roles are cops with differing sanities?

S/N/P i can buy
I/N/P i find hard to believe, that basically cripples the town with 3 cops who are all getting wrong/unhelpful results doesnt it??

If there are three cops, the two sanity distributions that I see most likely are sane/naïve/paranoid and insane/naïve/paranoid. Two cops, one sane and one insane, isn't exactly likely, but I do find it believable.

11) That sounds as if three cops is more likely than two cops. Yet you think Battousai is lying. Why?

[Wumbo]

*shrugs* I don't know what you guys expect out of me other than contributing who I think is scum, which at this point is fairly solidly SC to me, though Cass' continued push against me is becoming rather tiring and borderline suspicious.

I don't have reports or anything to back up my thoughts and there are others who would better decide this.

All I will say is that don't forget that imaginality was also a townie. I also don't think it's LYLO or MYLO because we have killed two scum and there has to be only one left, otherwise the mafia could force a no lynch and win that way (5 people left)

To be honest I'm kind of tired of being accused. It's boring. We could bring it to LYLO next round by using the mislynch on me. I don't mind and at this point I would prefer it. Being blue when everyone else alive has some form of investigative power is very confusing.

vote: StrangerCoug

FoS: Cass

[Wumbo]

EBYWODP

whoops, my apologies. 6 are alive, not 5. So it is possible for 2 mafia to be alive.

[StrangerCoug]

To be honest I'm kind of tired of being accused. It's boring. We could bring it to LYLO next round by using the mislynch on me. I don't mind and at this point I would prefer it. Being blue when everyone else alive has some form of investigative power is very confusing.

vote: StrangerCoug

You're voting me because you're tired of being accused? This screams of scum backed into a corner.

[Cass]

Stranger, you're being paranoid. I'm not trying to misrepresent you, all I wanted was clarification on some points. And I got it, on most. I had already said I leaned towards beliving you.

@Stranger, Batt & Wumbo: did you even read my posts? I explained why scum is likely among me, geraint and Wumbo. I think Wumbo is scummier than geraint (and of course, I'm convinced I am innocent ).

Who do you propose we lynch? And why them?

[StrangerCoug]

Un-FoS: Cass

. Apologies.

If I had to make a list of suspicion, then starting with the most suspicious player, I'd say Battousai, Wumbo, you, geraintm, Litral. There's a considerable gap between Battousai and Wumbo.

If you can convince me of three cops, then I'll go ahead with Wumbo for his minimal contributions. He throws a vote on me without what I think is a good reason for it (then again, when I see votes I also need to see explanations or where I can get them to go with the votes). Litral's cleared, and I don't think geraintm has done anything majorly scummy.

[Cass]

Stranger, how about this: Nhat had a very powerful investigatory role. You're a tracker, also not bad. Add a sane cop to that, and it's just too overpowered for town. Three crazy cops however (which makes more sense than two) balance Nhats role, by making crime scenes crowded and confusing. A tracker in this scenario is as much for finding the scum as for confirming all the cops.

All theory, yes, but it feels plausible to me. The downside is it makes Batt utterly useless. We'll just have to find the last scum the old-fashioned way...

[StrangerCoug]

Stranger, how about this: Nhat had a very powerful investigatory role. You're a tracker, also not bad. Add a sane cop to that, and it's just too overpowered for town. Three crazy cops however (which makes more sense than two) balance Nhats role, by making crime scenes crowded and confusing. A tracker in this scenario is as much for finding the scum as for confirming all the cops.

All theory, yes, but it feels plausible to me. The downside is it makes Batt utterly useless. We'll just have to find the last scum the old-fashioned way...

Am I correct in saying you believe Battousai is a cop, but not that a sane cop exists?

[Wumbo]

You're voting me because you're tired of being accused? This screams of scum backed into a corner.

No. I said I'm tired of being accused. I didn't say that was why I voted you. My suspicions on you are from your previous posts where you vote Batt, unvote, vote yourself, unvote, then say "i messed up." I just don't understand that play at all. It's not scum and it's not town, so naturally it is the most suspicious. If you read my posts in chronological order you will have seen that I brought this up previously, but at that point I just FOS'd you. The change in the last post was that I actually voted you.

Also I find it a little hard to believe that there is no sane cop.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Could we have a votecount please?

[Cass]

Stranger, how about this: Nhat had a very powerful investigatory role. You're a tracker, also not bad. Add a sane cop to that, and it's just too overpowered for town. Three crazy cops however (which makes more sense than two) balance Nhats role, by making crime scenes crowded and confusing. A tracker in this scenario is as much for finding the scum as for confirming all the cops.

All theory, yes, but it feels plausible to me. The downside is it makes Batt utterly useless. We'll just have to find the last scum the old-fashioned way...

Am I correct in saying you believe Battousai is a cop, but not that a sane cop exists?

I don't believe Battousai 100%. I am pretty sure that Batt isn't a

sane

cop however. If there are three cops, I think none is sane. If there are two cops, Batt is by definition scum.

[geraintm]

Geraintm

what did you mean by "If I'm naive, then scum will not kill me because they are afraid of my results"?

If I'm naive, the scum would not be afraid of my results, thus lynching me would be like lynching a vanilla townie to them. (This was before mass claim, thus power roles could have been hidden still)

ok, that makes sense, they wouldnt kill you because if you are getting innocent every time they dont fear you, that is what you mean isnt it?

which post did i edit though bat??

This goes back to D1, I believe I read it during my initial read through.

ok, got you know, i thought you meant i went in and rewrote one of my own posts

Ok, as promised, my thoughts

I said I wanted to hammer, but whatever.

why? why did you want to hammer so badly. if you wanted to vote, then you should have

I was pretty sure that Inspector Godot was scum and not nhat, but I wasn't confident enough for a vote. Nobody likes lynching a claimed power role, but it's already had to be done twice. chenhsi was speedlynched because he failed to contribute much to discussion and maxwellhouse countered him. They both ended up being cops. As for nhat and Inspector Godot, they didn't claim the same role, but they still conflicted (nhat claimed Inspector Godot killed imaginality, while Inspector Godot claimed to have reported on that same person the night he died). Because Godot flipped scum, Wumbo is not cleared.

yeah, to me it just looked bad. as he came up scum, to me you demanding that you be allowed to hammer him looks to me the sort of thing a partner would do, knowing that his partner is going to get lynched and wanting to be in on the vote so later on they can say "but i voted for him, i cant be bad"

If there are three cops, the two sanity distributions that I see most likely are sane/naïve/paranoid and insane/naïve/paranoid. Two cops, one sane and one insane, isn't exactly likely, but I do find it believable.

What's that one type of theme game where all the townie roles are cops with differing sanities?

S/N/P i can buy
I/N/P i find hard to believe, that basically cripples the town with 3 cops who are all getting wrong/unhelpful results doesnt it??

I assumed the insane cop in an I/N/P distrubution would live long enough to find this out and report the opposite result from then on, but S/N/P does make better sense than I/N/P.[/quote][/quote]

but mod isn't giving us the cops sanity on death, just saying town cop, so trying to work backwards to get what their results actually are doesn't seem very easy at all.

If you can convince me of three cops, then I'll go ahead with Wumbo for his minimal contributions. He throws a vote on me without what I think is a good reason for it (then again, when I see votes I also need to see explanations or where I can get them to go with the votes). Litral's cleared, and I don't think geraintm has done anything majorly scummy.

ok, probably being thick, why is litral cleared. can you point out to me why he is.

I don't believe Battousai 100%. I am pretty sure that Batt isn't a

sane

cop however. If there are three cops, I think none is sane. If there are two cops, Batt is by definition scum.

what dont you beleive about bat? do you beleive he has got the results he has said he has got? do you just beleive he is sane or something like that?

[Cass]

Why is Litral cleared?

We are assuming there is only one scum left. Last night, this scum killed someone, so they left their house. SC checked Litral last night, he didn't leave his house. Two options:
- SC is honest; Litral is now cleared.
- SC is lying scum; Litral (and everyone else) is now cleared.

what dont you beleive about bat? do you beleive he has got the results he has said he has got? do you just beleive he is sane or something like that?

I'm not sure I understand the question. I believe Batt say... 90%. His results sound credible, but he isn't

confirmed

by any means. So I'm keeping the option open that he is the last scum, but, like Stranger, I'm also willing to give him a chance to confirm himself tonight.
I believe he is either insane, or scum. Would be nice if I was wrong, but I don't see that happening. My opinion. Thus I dont see his results as relevant - except that I think we should kill someone that has not been investigated and have him check the other one (SC or Wumbo, I prefer Wumbo as lynch).

[Cass]

EBWOP: for 'insane', read 'naive'

[geraintm]

Why is Litral cleared?

We are assuming there is only one scum left. Last night, this scum killed someone, so they left their house. SC checked Litral last night, he didn't leave his house. Two options:
- SC is honest; Litral is now cleared.
- SC is lying scum; Litral (and everyone else) is now cleared.

ah, i knew there was something i had forgotten that someone would be kind enough to remind me.

what dont you beleive about bat? do you beleive he has got the results he has said he has got? do you just beleive he is sane or something like that?

I'm not sure I understand the question. I believe Batt say... 90%. His results sound credible, but he isn't

confirmed

by any means. So I'm keeping the option open that he is the last scum, but, like Stranger, I'm also willing to give him a chance to confirm himself tonight.
I believe he is either insane, or scum. Would be nice if I was wrong, but I don't see that happening. My opinion. Thus I dont see his results as relevant - except that I think we should kill someone that has not been investigated and have him check the other one (SC or Wumbo, I prefer Wumbo as lynch).

seems good thinking to me, about where i am with him. just i dont think he is scum, too much of a gamble for him to come out like that. i've not been in a game like this before with so many roles, but i have a suspicion that we might end up having to lynch a claimed role before the end of the game, just to make sure their night actions/results are correct

[Cass]

Quite possible, but not today I think. We shouldn't discuss it until tomorrow, after the investigators have claimed their results.

[StrangerCoug]

I'll go ahead and

Unvote: Battousai

since I can buy three cops now.

Vote: Wumbo

See posts #551 and #557, as I am NOT running around in circles.

[geraintm]

cougar, why you think there are 3 cops now? what made you change your mind?

[StrangerCoug]

Cass pretty much won the convincing game with me, and I do agree that he is naïve if he really is a cop.

[StrangerCoug]

By "he", I mean Battousai, by the way.

[StrangerCoug]

Last night, this scum killed someone, so they left their house. SC checked Litral last night, he didn't leave his house.

Just noticed we're confusing the tracker with the reporter again. The mod specifically told me that maxwellhouse targeted Dark wingstalker. I couldn't get you, and Litral confirmed his not submitting anything last night.

Litral's cleared with one scum left regardless.

[Wumbo]

I went back and reread, and though I still find the tracker role hard to believe, I'm willing to overlook Stranger's suspicious behavior in favor of a Cass/geratihm lynch.

Cass' "let's end this today" seems kind of strange to me.

But the biggest problem I have right now, as I look back, is with geratihm's blue claim. There's a cop claim, a tracker claim, and two blue claims. With imaginality being a dead blue already I find it hard to believe that gera is a blue.

Can anyone tell me what Cass claimed? I seem to have missed that somewhere.

[Wumbo]

EBWODP:

I'm willing to die. For serious. In the end I think it might be more useful to the town if everyone didn't have their investigations on me. ;D

unvote: StrangerCoug

I'm not going to vote myself quite yet as it could easily be a speedlynch. I doubt there are four mafia in an 11 person game, so I really think it is crucial to think over this mislynch. If the town wants it I'll agree to it simply for simplicity's sake. But My major suspicions are:

StrangerCoug
Cass
geratihm

Something just doesn't add up with them.