Mini 659: The Neighborhood- Game over on Day 6

[fhqwhgads]

Non random vote

##Vote: Rashiminos

[fhqwhgads]

##unvote

random vote.

Wel, this game has gotten serious very quickly. I like it!

iamauser's claim might not be pro-town, but it got us all right into the think of things.

Crywolf, if I understand you correctly, you believe the cop is now not only obligated to investigate iamauser, but also obligated to out himself to confirm his claim?

I find this logic erroneous at best. The cop would put a big bullseye on himself while we would still not know if iamauser is scum or a miller. This does not help town at all.

I'm not sure if your statement just missed the point, or if it is the worst cop fish I've seen. A

FOS

on you! And your kind!

I believe iamuser, at best, has prevented himself to be lynched on day 1. Scummy?

IGMEOY

perhaps?

##Unvote: iamusername, Vote: Rashiminos

I don't like the miller claim. Far too much potential for WIFOM there. I'm going to treat him as someone that hasn't claimed for now, because that means less headaches.

Is this a random vote? Do you really think ignoring the claim is the best course of action?

[fhqwhgads]

I believe iamuser, at best, has prevented himself to be lynched on day 1.

How's that, exactly?

I state this only as my opinion. I think while you have brought enough attention to yourself, your claim has already not only caused divided opinions, but people being called out on those opinions. Personally, I think it was a good move (if a bit unconventional) from your side.

Also, I do believe Tommy makes some good points re the claim.

For clarification, I haven't read the thread you pointed to, nor do I intend to at this stage.

[fhqwhgads]

2) fhqwhgads and crywolf - you both posted after usernames claim without making any mention of it, even though it was the only relevant issue to come up at that point. Why did you choose not to even mention the claim? This goes for Lowell as well, however he only initially ignored it and then chimed in after ythills post.

Well, the truth is in fact a bit embarrassing and newbie-ish. Before this game, I have never seen the miller role. I confused it with the flavour (thinking miller, the guy who supplies the baker. Yeah, I know). I thought he was joking, claiming his 'flavour' rather than a serious role. After some people got talking about it, I consulted the wiki.

@fhq: You were unsure if wolf had missed a point or was fishing. Has #50 helped to solidify your opinion?

Well, I don't think she missed the point any longer.

There are so many people I want dead.

What? Wow. Really? Wow.

[fhqwhgads]

I don't like the way she pushed a Tony wagon in this post without actually commiting to it herself. Feels like she was fishing to see if it would gain any traction, and retracted her 'suspicion' when it became clear it wouldn't.

QFT,

FOS: crywolf

For now, I'm going to believe user's claim. This does not mean, however, that I'm going to stick with that belief.

Still waiting on Lowel. Maybe this (

##unvote, ##vote: Lowel

) will help.

[fhqwhgads]

@lowell: I strongly dislike this macho, bombastic, jock gameplay style. It pisses off half the players, make people think you are scummy on much less justification than is normally necessary and just usually confuse the hell out of everyone (except scum of course, they are enjoying this outburst, assuming you aren't one of 'em).

##Unvote

for now, as my vote was cast initially only to get you talking, which it did. But you're not off the hook yet. A whole

HOS:Lowell

, because of all that bull you just pulled out of one post. If you want to accuse someone, I want facts, not exaggerated insults.

[fhqwhgads]

@Fhqwh: You told User to shut up, then FOSed me, as though you agreed with him. May I ask why you agree?

Well, I... wait what?

I never told user to shut up? I agreed with his reason to FOS you, as I thought was implied in my statement 'QFT'.

[fhqwhgads]

I'm leaning towards both Lowell and Crywolf for now, however, crywolf gives me the impression of being inexperienced, rather than doing scummy things on purpose, but this is more a feeling, a read I'm getting off her.

Lowell's attitude really bugs me (not a scumtell, I know) and his flagrant attack via exaggeration makes me all the more weary, but I do take Ythill's warning on his gameplay style into account.

I think these two should justify their actions as soon as possible.

[fhqwhgads]

Bandwagoning

Are you accusing her, or describing your own actions?

[fhqwhgads]

As I've stated before. Tones like Lowell's does nothing but confuse town or make it more likely for people to vote for him for the smallest of reasons. Now we had this whole discussion, side lining the thread, about Lowell's gameplay style.

While it's not scummy in any way, it certainly isn't pro town either.

I'd much rather hear what crywolf's reasons are for any of her actions, as seeing we have only been getting vague reasons and even an OMGUS as reasoning so far.

[fhqwhgads]

Aw, you missed me. Dont want people to think I'm actively lurking

[fhqwhgads]

Agreed,

Sorry for my sporadic posting of late, my intermittent internet connection is to blame.

Waiting for the lowell claim. Oh, and Oman; wow, I like this guy.

And crywolf better make that promised post, or she'll be up for active lurker of the game.

Speaking of which, to answer ythill's earlier question about my voting. I DID place a vote on lowell early, but it was one to loosen his tongue. When he did, I let go. His tongue loosening did bring him under quite some fire. I'd be interested to see where this goes if he does get the axe, especially regarding the various arguments against him.

[fhqwhgads]

She's all over the place, and so you and her other detractors have plenty of ammunition, but this is her first game and I don't think she's doing much for the anti-town side either. Beyond distracting everyone. The "cop-fishing", for example, just looks like thinking aloud to me, trying to work out for the first time how a cop ought to treat his role. And she changes her mind, but she does it when there's no particular advantage for either the goodies or the baddies. She needs to develop a tougher skin, which I think explains her OMGUS behaviour.

QFT. I agree with this assessment, as it is the same feeling I get. We should be very careful of setting a president though, so she's not completely of the hook yet.

Regarding the Darox argument: I don't believe it's giving a tell on him either way, not for me at least. I think its just one comment being dragged out of proportion, probably due to a misunderstanding to his initial meaning.

Lowell's response should be interesting. Meta be damned, he's still the most scummy in my book.

[fhqwhgads]

Ok, given, his motivations for voting are shady at best.

I saw his statement as a variant on my own earlier, stating that his play style is probably going to bring him under fire for lesser infringements than it would if his style/personality was more palatable. Personally, that's not enough reason for me to vote for him, but he's not helping town by hogging suspicion and giving scum cover.

[fhqwhgads]

I want him to stop acting in an anti town manner. Because... it is anti town?

Ok, ok, I get your 'neutral' statement and accept your explanation. What I believe user is asking, is do you feel that if it is apparent that he only seems scummy because of his gameplay, that you think he should still be lynched, so he can 'learn' not to act like that in the future?

[fhqwhgads]

I don't support any hammering of Lowell right now. Still want him to talk more though.

Woah! You keep on arguing about why you haven't retracted your vote, and now you try to slip under the radar and remove it quietly?

I now fully endorse

##vote:Darox

.

Besides, I find it highly doubtful that Lowell is going to humour you now and start talking.

[fhqwhgads]

The case against me is highly amusing.

Does anyone have something other than that I don't want to see Lowell dead right away but I do want him to say more?

Was that the case?

I thought the case was that you seemed to think his play style is scummy, yet refused to remove your vote at L-1.

Now that he is at L-1 again, you suddenly do remove the vote, contradicting your previous argument of 'what is wrong with being at L-1'?

Also, this isn't the first time in this game that Lowell is it L-1. What makes you think the strategy is going to make him talk this time?

[fhqwhgads]

He was not at L-1 again...

My bad. My point still stands that you tried to climb out of the bandwagon quietly after you basically refused to do so in you previous arguments.

@oman: I'm pretty sure that his actions so far has shown that Lowell doesn't react to voting pressure. Darox's unvote was just a bit too timely for my liking. Voting isn't the same as lynching, and he's far from that.

[fhqwhgads]

##unvote; ##vote:Lowell

My vote on Darox was obviously because I miscounted (still, IGMEOY). Lowell's not interested in playing along, and we're not getting anything more out of him while he's still alive.

I suggest we lynch.

[fhqwhgads]

##unvote; ##vote:Lowell

My vote on Darox was obviously because I miscounted (still, IGMEOY). Lowell's not interested in playing along, and we're not getting anything more out of him while he's still alive.

I suggest we lynch.

I don't see where you miscounting has a bearing on your reason for voting Darox.

Here's your reason:

Woah! You keep on arguing about why you haven't retracted your vote, and now you try to slip under the radar and remove it quietly?

What difference does the number of votes on Lowell make?

IGMEOY

Elaboration: Yes, that reason is why I've got my eye on him. The vote was because a few posts before he claimed there was nothing wrong with being at L-1, and I thought he was now pulling out at L-1. Contradiction.

But it's a good catch, I should have been more elaborate. I hate doing walls of text, sometimes to my own detriment. You have full right to call me out on that.

[fhqwhgads]

So far all I have got is that not unvoting when someone is at L-1 is somehow morally wrong, and unvoting when someone starts calling for an immediate hammer is clearly the move of a dirty sleaze.

The mistake you are making is taking those two actions in isolation. The case against you is more related to the timing of above moves in relation to each other and the type of questions you were being asked at the time.

My partaking of the Lowell bandwagon is for 2 reasons:

1) I'm not fond of using meta to defend someone's actions. If he's looking scummy, he's looking scummy. Personally, I find using meta is unreliable. Also, (and this actually coincides with Darox's statement), if his playstyle makes him look more scummy, he's the one who needs to change the way he plays. It's not our job to interpret it for him. We've got scum to hunt, trying to figure out if townies acting like scum is really scum isn't helping.

2) I believe(d) that the Lowell bandwagon is the only one that's going to follow through to the upcoming deadline.

At this moment there's only two things that's going to lessen my suspicion on him:

1) He admits he's been doing it wrong, and starts being a good townie, or

2) He gets replaced. (He's been pretty quiet), and his replacement makes up for his playstyle so far.

Bandwagons I'll endorse is still Darox (he's been dismissing the case against him as a joke. Not a good defence in my book) and Crywolf. While I agree on the assessment that she seems like a newbie, I dislike using it as an excuse, for much the same reason as my meta argument above.

[fhqwhgads]

I see what you did there

My number 2 reason is there for the plain reason that I'd rather go for a lynch than no lynch come deadline. Apart from Lowell, there's two other people mentioned in my previous post. It seems the actions on them isn't going to follow through, not at the moment anyway.

So I ask you. Is it, by default, scummy to follow the majority, especially if you agree with the reasoning? How will we ever get someone lynched if that is the case? Do you believe that everyone needs to have his/her own mutual exclusive reason to vote for someone?

[fhqwhgads]

No, it is scummy to support a lynch because you think it's the only one that will be supported.

Nice piece of statement twisting there yourself. I believe I have made my point (by the way, my 'statement twisting' question was just a question. I never implied that is what you meant. I just asked it to illustrate why I made the point at all).

[fhqwhgads]

...on people who you think are likely to be town. What gives?

That's just the thing. I don't think they are likely to be town. If we bring meta and 'newbieness' into the equation, then at best, I don't know what they are? In isolation of this game, they both have been doing pretty scummy things (if you want specifics, just look at the thread, I'm certainly not the only one to think so).

My argument is that they can't expect me to go and read their respective gaming histories to decide if their scummy actions really are scummy, or not. And again I ask, how does that help town anyway? If you're going to act like a loose cannon, your 1. not helping town, and 2. probably not going to be NK'd by mafia either. Why point 2? Because your helping mafia by confusing the hell out of everyboby.

----------------
Now playing: Infected Mushroom - Psycho
via FoxyTunes

[fhqwhgads]

## unvote

Really, while Lowell has gone quiet and is being prodded again, I'm thinking Darox is looking scummier by the post. Never liked his brushing off the case against him as 'a joke', and after user had him cornered, I'm even more convinced he's scum caught out.

In fact, I'm pretty convinced now that of the 3 candidates, he's most likely to turn out scum. Thus my vote goes back to

## vote: Darox

.

Regarding people concerned that I'm pushing for a lynch or debating my motives for going for a 'bandwagon' vote, I fully understand and expect you to feel this way. My feeling at that moment was just of frustration that we are going nowhere and that Lowell doesn't seem interested of arguing the case against him.

I also thought the case against Darox wasn't strong enough, but the way things are going now, I feel confident in changing my vote.

[fhqwhgads]

Also, I love the way you justify your vote without any actual evidence, but rather try to preemptively assure people that you are not voting without reason for the sake of a wagon.

Evidence: The way you are trying to argue 'claim or die' at L-1 is not a threat to lynch. I'm sorry that I can't fabricate evidence for each of my arguments and have to use "other people's" evidence.

I'm not going to explain my voting to you any more, as I believe I made myself quite clear. Some of the wagon arguments was endorsed and made by myself long before the wagon's existed in any case. I was not aware I needed new arguments every time I vote.

Just because you say attacks are 'cotton candy and rainbows', it doesn't mean they are.

Oh, and I haven't stopped looking at Lowell. But as I've claimed before, I'm not letting go unless he explains himself or gets replaced. Seeing as he hasn't picked up his second prod, I think he's close to being replaced in this game. If his replacement continues in much the same vain, I'll certainly look at him again.

[fhqwhgads]

Claim or die is a threat holding the promise of a potential future lynch. It is not a command to lynch. How can you not see the difference.

Maybe if he put a time-limit that was measurable, yes. How long do you think he would have waited? Do you know? So if he didn't claim until Oman got impatient, that threat would mean, DIE.

But this is semantics. I can also argue that when the others were calling for a lynch, he wasn't at L-1 even. Quicklynching in mafia is almost always a bad idea, as that would certainly put a lot of pressure onto the lynchees.

In my opinion he was much more likely to be lynched the first time, as when you did pull out.

[fhqwhgads]

Guys, with deadline this close (within the week I think) we all need to get on one target, and I'm saying

NOT DAROX!

I respectfully disagree. Darox has been all over the place on a case that YOU pointed out wasn't all that strong to begin with. While my finger is still itching for Lowell, his inactivity makes me wonder if he's still interested in this game at all.

Mod: Has he picked up his prod?

If so, then I say, hang him. If not, he needs to be replaced ASAP.

[fhqwhgads]

I'm back. Was away for the weekend. Sorry, mod.

Now that you are back, ready to claim yet?

[fhqwhgads]

Maybe I should make my statement more clear.

Claim or Die!

(Darox: To clarify, I'm willing to drop the hammer if he doesn't respond or his response isn't to my liking.)

[fhqwhgads]

Hmm,

Probably the best post you've made all day. Unfortunately, one post does not make a day. Your absence during questioning (controlled or not) plus your brash attitude initially has you branded.

Also, while a good post, your argument on Elias feels like a reach. Like he pointed out, you've ignored a lot of what happened in between the posts you did point out. This might be due to the fact that you had to reread in a hurry. Also you comment on the fact that I ask a claim, but you still don't even consider it.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Lowell

My reasons being:

1) Deadline tomorrow, and you are the only one there is a mild agreement on.

2) You haven't really been the ideal townie up till now.

and

3) Someone (I forget) made the argument that we'll be stuck in lowell mode after day one if you are not lynched.

It's time to get more info and focus on some other people for a change (Darox, you're not off the hook yet).

[fhqwhgads]

Ah,

Missed the bionicchop unvote. I thought I hammered.

[fhqwhgads]

Hmm, not the first to look at elias, but I'll read up on his posts again and recollect my thoughts later.

The NK is indeed strange. I'll have to look back, but someone noted that they think they know what option 'c' was that Ythill talked about earlier. Can't remember who now, but it might be worth looking into.

I'll also want to hear more people's reactions to the lynch and NK actions before disclosing more.

[fhqwhgads]

I'd have to agree with Tony's last point.

Also, I don't feel any less (or more) inclined to go after Darox. But for the moment I'm just keeping my eye on him, rather than making a full attack just yet. (More rope)

While the exchange between bionic an elias is interesting, I find no worth in it. Quibbling over something as odd as a point-by-point post and exchanging as much over meta is odd to me. I have said before that I try to avoid meta when reading people, and as such that exchange added nothing to the game for me.

Bionic's easy roll-over at the end also seems odd to me. I'd almost be as bold to say that whole exchange felt like a very staged bussing scenario.

FOS

on both of you.

[fhqwhgads]

@Fhq: Please explicitly share your read on wolf.

While I have made clear that I don't favour using either meta or 'newbieness' as an excuse for scumtells, her further posts does make it seem she is VERY new. She has spirit though.

Based on that, I've pretty much got a null-read on her. More pressure is always good. I'd rather like more pressure on the Darox wagon, but I don't want to get too tunnel visioned.

[fhqwhgads]

The way things are going now, we probably should have left Lowell alive (other than the fact that he turned up town!). At least we had something to talk about then.

Would like to hear some of our more quiet members. A few prods are in order, maybe?

[fhqwhgads]

I wouldn't say 0,

I've said my share about the Elias/bionic exchange, but they have both gone quieter after that, so no more to say on that for now. My argument on you have also hit a brick wall. And I think it would be healthier to look at others for the moment too. But the others have been pretty quiet. I guess I'll have to reread day 1. Don't have time at the moment though, maybe later tonight.

[fhqwhgads]

Dude, just explain why you IGMEOYed me!

Agree on this. At the time, it seems like you directed it at the 'joke' Oman made. But you never really made clear why you did it, AND why at that time in particular.

[fhqwhgads]

When you made this comment, I thought you might actually be providing us with some information. You haven't done anything of the sort.

Didn't have time to reread day 1 yet. Oh, and claiming I'll be providing more information? I have seen the same things you have seen, why would I have MORE information? Best I can do, is a fresh perspective.

[fhqwhgads]

When you made this comment, I thought you might actually be providing us with some information. You haven't done anything of the sort.

Didn't have time to reread day 1 yet. Oh, and claiming I'll be providing more information? I have seen the same things you have seen, why would I have MORE information? Best I can do, is a fresh perspective.

You kind of soft claimed having information which would have come from the night phase and were just waiting for some more people to post before revealing. I guess I misread that one. It seemed like you had an investigation with a guilty result. The use of the word 'disclosing' was very misleading. The nature of the word disclosing is more along the lines of unveiling previously unknown information.

If you were trying to be subtle about having an investigation, I was trying to be subtle about letting you know I was waiting for the results before voting. I can see that is not the case now - if it is, you have kind of blown it by directly asking me why I expected you to have MORE information.

Ah, sorry, I can see how you would think that.

Well, my most likely subject is still Darox. The case against Tony isn't any more convincing to me and Darox hasn't done or said anything to make me suspect him any less than on day one.

Also. I'll be on V/LA for the weekend.

[fhqwhgads]

Back.

Well, today's actions by him, and my feelings since yesterday pretty much confirms the way I feel.

vote: Darox

[fhqwhgads]

I find your vote slightly strange Crywolf.

Well, before I say more, I have a question. Whom do you find more scummy. Tony or Tommy?

[fhqwhgads]

@Darox - all of your reasons for your vote seem to have occurred after your vote. Please outline the reasons which came before your vote and made him obvious scum (so obvious everybody else missed how obvious it was).

QFT. Also, because I screwed it up the first time

##Vote:Darox

. You better have something better to say than 'Because he is obviously scum, and if it isn't obvious, my argument is."

@fhq: Tommy because he is buddying up with somebody very anti-town. Don't get me wrong, I believe that both Darox and Tony are getting what they deserve in the way of questioning.

This answered my concerns...

Add-on to Fhq: Either Tony or Tommy would be a good lynch for today because:

A) If Tommy is gone, how long will Tony last without Tommy's defence.

B) If Tony's gone, what kind of opinions can Tommy bring to the table that haven't already been spewed forthwith by Tony.

... however, this brings up some new ones. It is fine if you believe Tommy is more scummy for buddying up, but you are now assuming both scum?

[fhqwhgads]

I'm still watching. Nothing more to add really. My vote stays where it is, until someone changes my mind significantly.

[fhqwhgads]

Checking in.

Was unexpectantly V/LA for the weekend, so I will pick up my posting from tomorrow.

Just a few points:

1) Ythill's case on crywolf is thought provoking, but I'll have to reread it, as I was only skimming it. I first dismissed it by thinking she's obviously a newbie. But, I then realised this is an unfair way of excusing her behaviour. Add to this that I usually don't like meta or newbieness to influence my decisions.

2) Oman has been pointing out a lot who he thinks is town. How about pointing out who he thinks is scum?

[fhqwhgads]

I'm pretty happy with my vote on Darox still. While his analysis was adequate, it feels to me of a case of 'too little, too late'. He's been claiming a case on tony since his explanationless vote earlier. Then, when coaxed to give an explanation, he gives one mainly on tony's actions AFTER his vote. When this is pointed out to him several times and is re-asked to give is original case, he gives in and does. While his 'new' case does relate to things tony has done before his vote, it feels to me he's been buying time to fabricate a case to justify his vote. I don't buy it.

Ythill's post has convinced me somewhat that we need to take crywolf's actions more seriously. His case points out that she is either scum, or an overconfident newbie. Note that option two does not rule out she's scum either. I don't think it'll be difficult to sway my vote to her if we near deadline.

Still waiting on Oman to point out who else is town, so I can narrow down who he thinks is scum.

[fhqwhgads]

I'm voting for Tony because he is scum. I thought that was obvious.
I also thought it was obvious that I hadn't softclaimed. Because, you know, I never once hinted at something like 'I'm going to get you tonight' or 'I won't let you die' or 'I have proof of guilt' or anything along those lines.
What you interpret from my actions does not equal a softclaim from myself.

I'm sorry. You are right. I was really stretching calling this a case it was more a 'response'. My point still stands that we had to drag out the original reasoning from you while you basically ignored the pleas for you to do so. The posts you made after this 'response' was basically gunning on tony for things he said after you placed the vote.

[fhqwhgads]

It should be easy. Where is your 'list'? Does it exist? Is this a rhetorical question?

Or is there no answers because he hit the nail on the head?

[fhqwhgads]

My vote on Darox is pretty well documented, I believe. I have, however, stated that it won't be difficult to swing my vote to crywolf. Especially regarding her recent actions. Her total unwillingness to answer the points Ythill made even when I deliberately asked her about certain points really does not bode well for her.

My suspicion on Darox will remain. My suspicion on crywolf has surpassed it though.

##unvote, ##vote: Crywolf

[fhqwhgads]

@peg: Man, I like this guy.

Between him and Oman this looks like it's going to be a fun ride

Agree on the Crywolf claim. I'm SO ready to put her at L-1.

[fhqwhgads]

Because the both of you are direct and seem not to be distracted by BS. I like that.

[fhqwhgads]

Just checking in. Will post either later today (ideally) or tomorrow.

[fhqwhgads]

Damn,

I don't have as much time as I would have wished. I'm not going to lynch a claimed doc today. Lets see what tomorrow brings for crywolf. I'm going back to my original vote, one, which I see, has become all the more popular.

Unvote, Vote: Darox

That's L-1 if I'm not mistaken. Any inclination to claim now, Darox?

[fhqwhgads]

Massclaim is fine with me.

I'm less inclined to believe crywolf today. Her list of protectees makes no sense. To me anyway. Darox's death is unfortunate, but at least we can rest that argument. What really gets me though, is that I firmly believe that no lynch is more advantageous to scum than to town; yet darox was standing at L-1 long enough.

I'm, for now, looking at all the people not dropping the hammer as suspicious. They cost us information. Sure, Darox was killed, butI believe by a protown role, as darox-town would have been a great scapegoat today for scum. This means that we would still have had more information today with a Darox lynch.

The hesitation of others to drop the Darox hammer also makes me less suspicious of tony for now. I'll be watching you closely.

[fhqwhgads]

Checking in. Had no internet access for the weekend, but I see I didn't miss much. Wonder how much suspicion I should read into the long waits before the claims.

[fhqwhgads]

I am the newspaper editor. I inherited it from my father, but I hate the job. I'm vanilla townie. Ythill, next.

[fhqwhgads]

Strange that the vig did not make a choice on night 1?

Tracker/Watchmen combo makes sense. I think targeting either one would not be a good idea without a very good reason.

I find Ythill's continued push on crywolf's claim intriguing...

[fhqwhgads]

Hmm... re my comment on the vig, I haven't really had much experience with the role, so I suppose it makes sense being cautious on day one. I'd have to reread, though, before I'm going to drop that one.

@bionic: I agree with the sentiment that we shouldn't go for the power rolls at the moment. I also agree with your implication that we should 'get rid of the vanilla rolls' so the big boys can fight it out. This all makes me an eventual target. I am fine with this.

On your 'accusations':

1) Low content: Sorry, I've been busy. That is, however, my problem, not yours.

2) My votes was consistent, so you point to that? While I was wrong with both Lowell and Darox, I wasn't the only one.

3) Little Scumhunting: Sure, I was probably tunneling in on Darox too much. My bad.

[fhqwhgads]

Wow Crywolf. That's quite a quick jump on a new bandwagon while you are still regarded suspicious by quite a few. May I remind you the only reason you're not a main suspect now, is because of your perceived power role.

I forgot to answer Ythill's question earlier btw. My statement on you continuing your argument on crywolf isn't so much as why it is her, but rather on you still insisting on the 'townies grew up in town' argument. I don't really feel comfortable lynching on that analysis. In this case I have to agree with rash (as much as I hate it )

[fhqwhgads]

Good point bionic. Although directing the cop was a pretty crappy move on your point.

I am pretty sure you meant doc here. Look at it this way - if we had one cop and one doc, we would all tell the doc to protect the cop. If we mislynch and the vig is our best shot of recovering, then you are damn right I am going to direct a doctor to protect them. If we lynch scum, then I don't care who is protected.

Yeah I did mean cop. Of course, the doctor should be smart enough to know how to play without you letting everyone know. HOWEVER, II do like the WIFOM it develops, so long as the doctor doesn't listen to you, which kind of makes directing the doc pointless.

QFT.

I really dislike it when strategy is spelled out in game. The only time this is excused is when there is no mathematical possibility scum can win.

[fhqwhgads]

@bionic: I love how you play into Ythill's suspicion on crywolf to clear yourself. He might think twice about it, but I see his post as commenting on something that does not feel right to him, which is his right. Your counter arguments are quite defensive and even a bit WIFOMy to my taste (hey! You think crywolf is scum! Thus I can't be!). We, by no means, KNOW crywolf is scum (an argument you seem to favour).

I also have to point out, even if cry IS the doc, you made her role moot by arguing she should protect the vig. This gives mafia a free pass to kill. They know who's going to be protected now. How is that helping us?

[fhqwhgads]

Hmm, I was skimming through your post. Fine. Your analysis on crywolf as town is valid. Dismiss my argument.

I just thought of something: If cry does protect the vig, we can confirm her by investigating her actions during the night.

[fhqwhgads]

I've got lots to say, but I'm on with my cellphone.

@bionic: I dismissed my previous argument, not because I thought I was wrong, but because rather I didn't make my point properly. My issue is that you didn't defend your actions, but rather used wolf's townieness/scummyness to justify yours.

Got more to say about the night actions, but my fingers are cramping.

[fhqwhgads]

Also,

I fully endorse Rash's plan in terms of night actions, while Ythill's warning should also be considered.

I find Tony's idea that we should rather no-lynch intriguing. If we do believe one of the scum is claiming vanilla, it would up our probability of hitting scum if we lynch a vanilla and the vig takes out another?

@cry, while you might find trouble believe Tony's claim, we have to take into account the chances of a tracker/watcher pair. If you don't believe Tony's claim, do you believe Oman's? If Tony is lying, it means that both him and Oman are probably not telling the truth.

[fhqwhgads]

Well, of all the vanilla's I'd also agree rash seems the most town. Even with his disagreement with rash (and his suspicion on me!), I also think Ythill comes across as town. That leads myself and bionic.

With bionic's little discussion with ythill, it struck me that I felt more suspicious of him AFTER his defences. I've been quite hit and miss on him during the whole game, getting a different read on him depending on what he posted.

Also, with more than one finger pointing at me, I've got a sneaking suspicion that I'm either going to be the one lynched or be the one killed by the vig. I sincerely hope the other target will turn up scum then, or we're going to be in some serious trouble.

Thus, my vote goes to:

vote: bionic

[fhqwhgads]

That statement was merely an assessment of who is least likely to be town to me between the vanilla claims.

Besides, I have no idea how many scum players we have. Do you?

[fhqwhgads]

I didn't know the 'most probable' setup. I also make no assuptions. Hence my post on the vanilla townies have no hidden meaning.

[fhqwhgads]

I think bionic may be bored

I'll

unvote

for now.

[fhqwhgads]

For the record, I don't believe a 'no-lynch' is a good idea.

[fhqwhgads]

Then why are you not voting?

I wasn't voting because we got the deadline extension. Before that, I was voting.

To carry on the argument against no-lynch, bionic, I give you a reason why no-lynch is bad:

Yesterday we had a no-lynch because several people (including you) refused to hammer. The fact that Darox turned out to be town does not matter. Because the vig was on the Darox wagon, he used his one shot on, what really should have been a lynch.

You see, if we DID lynch, the vig would either have chosen another target (and had a chance to hit scum), or would not have shot, giving us a shot tonight. Both of those options, in my opinion, is a better option that what we have now.

Now, granted, because of the no-lynch yesterday, and the one-shot vig already been used, we now have a case which mathematically, as you stated, would show a better chance to get scum tomorrow if we did not lynch. There's just a few snags.

As Ythill pointed out, you forget the tactical issue of the scum NK. Scum won't kill suspicious townies. They'll get rid of the ones we trust the most, leaving us more in tatters. In fact, the longer the game goes on, the more difficult it is going to become to determine scum from town, unless we have a very definite slip-up.

Your reasoning for no-lynch is not only flawed, but filled with what-if's and assumptions. The corner stone of a WIFOM argument.

Your anti-town argument (in my eyes) earns you

vote: bionic

once again.

I suspect I will stay with this vote, unless another wagon is inevitable by deadline. I say this, not because I am fickle, but because I firmly believe a no-lynch will be a mistake for town.

[fhqwhgads]

This is falling apart.

From 'structured' plans to just going everywhere. We should probably try to get a majority decision. Deadline is coming closer. Of course, it seems there are quite a few people that won't mind if we reach a decision by deadline.

Btw, Ythill, I think your argument has merit, but calling it 'evidence' is a stretch.

[fhqwhgads]

The difference between evidence and an argument with merit is entirely semantic. Call it whatever you want.

No. Evidence is irrefutable. If you gave me evidence, I had no choice but to say: "Oh, dang. I guess you are right. This means we all must vote crywolf now."

An 'argument with merit' might be compelling, but definitely not irrefutable.

[fhqwhgads]

Don't argue semantics with me, you'll lose. I know what I meant.

Initially, I didn't. Now I do.

[fhqwhgads]

I've got a funny feeling this day is going to end just like the last. I hate being picked off one by one by scum.

We need some direction and I'm still not buying no lynch.

Unvote, vote: crywolf

[fhqwhgads]

Ok.

If I am not mistaken, power roles should start talking now... who did what. We need information, and we need it bad.

[fhqwhgads]

While I share the sentiment of wolfscum, I find it disconcerting that bionic is so keen to vote on lylo. Are you that sure wolf is scum?

[fhqwhgads]

Your last statement is the biggest load of crap I have read all game.

Of course, as always, your opinion is free to be expressed. Let me just correct a few statements you made which I feel twists the truth a bit:

Yesterday was MYLO, yes. BUT: if we have 3 scum as we assumed is the norm, we needed 5 to lynch yesterday. One vote would NOT give scum chance to bandwagon to a mislynch (as is the case with LYLO).

My votes yesterday was near the end of the deadline and if you look back, I was very careful with my votes, unvoting when I did not feel comfortable with it, even though I did not (and still don't) endorse a no-lynch.

If you vote crywolf now (and look here, I'm assuming you are NOT scum) and she's not scum, the scum will all vote in succession and win the game.

Is there a reason that you don't want to use the full 2 weeks before deadline? Or am I wrong and you are not proposing to vote asap?

[fhqwhgads]

I have to agree. Things look pretty bleak at the moment.

[fhqwhgads]

V/LA till after the weekend. Will have cellphone access, so I'll try to keep up.

[fhqwhgads]

As for scum buddies, not sure, but Fhq is kinda in the lurking mode, and has yet to comment about DR not posting today.

Nice. I did say I was going to be V/LA.

Ok, I'm in two games now where the most suspicious players are lurking like crazy. DR isn't doing himself any favours. Also, he has been prodded and has responded, yet no content whatsoever. I feel pretty sure he's either playing terribly, or he's scum (same for crywolf really). I suppose this is the same point bionic was trying to make.

However, the Ythill's vote means 3 things. Scum didn't try to pile on and end the day, so either scum isn't paying attention, DR is scum, or scum is already on the wagon (i.e. Ythill). This makes the following statement

DR, if you are town, I have just handed you over to the mafia.

somewhat WIFOMy in my eyes. I have to say, I feel a bit uneasy that both Ythill and bionic are running the show at the moment in terms of determining who is scummy without being appropriately questioned about their motives. But I suppose that seeing as they are the only real other ones still actively participating in this game, that's not really going to happen.

[fhqwhgads]

You're wagging the dog here. The least likely of three scenarios that were revealed after I made a statement says nothing about my motives for making that statement. On top of that, your false conclusion is that my statement was WIFOM, which suggests that it was meant to be evidence but it was not. It was a threat.

Could you rephrase this please. I'm having trouble understanding what you mean here. I thought it was WIFOM because you were wording the argument in the way that assumes you are town. Sure, I suppose that's what anyone would do, so I'll drop the argument. I'm really clutching at straws at the moment just for the sake of balance. If you (and bionic) are town, my questions towards your allignment should pose no threat at all.

And here you're casting suspicion without cause. You are uneasy that we are actively playing this game? Or you are uneasy that others are not? The latter cannot be blamed on either of us. And I'm noting that you are one of the folks who is not appropriately questioning us about our motives.

That is, in fact, somewhat true. If it didn't come over in my initial post, my 'uneasiness' is a feeling of the gut variety. I was just saying I've got a bad feeling about the fact that the two of you are basically running the game unchecked at the moment, yet you can't be kept in check because no one else is participating.

Again, if the two of you were truly town, casting doubt over your alignment would get you to defend your actions, justifying your townieness to everyone. I am merely playing devil's advocate here.

For the record, at the moment, I fully support the DR/crywolf drive, since we have no real other options.

[fhqwhgads]

Well,

This IS interesting. Now that Ythill has a vote, we have the same situation as with DR. Scum hasn't piled on, so either he is scum, or scum voted for him (assuming all scum are active).

Bionic is peculiarly quiet... your thoughts?

[fhqwhgads]

I'm still here,

I'm really not understanding DR dragging this out. What possibly could he gain by it? I think he's scum hoping others might put their foot in it and 'implicate' themselves. Maybe even come out with a "oh, I investigated (suspicious townie) and he's scum."

[fhqwhgads]

I support Rash's arguments. More later (I have limited internet at the moment).

[fhqwhgads]

Yes!

Sorry, my internet time was a bit iffy this weekend. Finally we have someone taking on Ythill from running this game (into the ground?) Rash's arguments make sense to me, oh and let me answer this to you:

A little too confident for one who does not want to talk about scumpartners. How about it? DR, crywolf, and who?

I'm willing to put money on the fact that he'll name me partner number 3. Well, no matter, I for one feel that there's only one thing that's already convinced me that Ythill's hands are not clean, and it's the way he's been throwing votes around; in LYLO. Pressure voting does not belong in LYLO. Period.

He might be trying to sell me that scum hasn't bandwagoned because his votes were ON scum, but I think it is because he IS scum. All they need is to sway one townie, and it's game over.

I'll still wait till deadline, but if things don't change, my vote is going this way.

[fhqwhgads]

Ythill, just gave my opinion. I'm really busy at the moment, which means I don't have time to formulate a full argument. Something which I wanted to do for a while now (hence my concerns posted much earlier). Rash has come in the meanwhile and is making a very thorough argument against you, addressing my concerns, and more. I don't necessarily agree with ALL his arguments, mine is more rooted in the simple fact that you were voting very irresponsibly during LYLO. In my opinion, no one, but scum, can benefit from votes like that.

In response to your statement that I'm aping rash, fine, I'm aping him. Actually, I'm just supporting his arguments, but call it what you will. Do you want everyone who makes an argument against you to make a unique one? How do you propose we ever get a majority vote. Oh right. We don't. Two times in a row now.

Here's a question for you. You've been accusing Rash of twisting your words and setting up strawmen. Yet you are somewhat vague on what you believe Rash's alignment to be. So I ask you directly: If you believe Rash IS twisting your words and setting up stawmen arguments, do you think he is scum? If not, what use would town have for 'setting you up'?

[fhqwhgads]

DR is lying.

The reason I voted crywolf

By the time I voted crywolf I had not finished catching up and I didn't know she had claimed doc.
I just wanted to avoid the no-lynch (see below) and voted the player closer to get lynched.

Sure, or you were just bussing, because you thought crywolf would be the inevitable lynch. Or maybe Cry is still telling the truth, and you were on your way to an easy win.

The reason to avoid a no lynch

Is that in most cases it favors mafia.
If town can't decide between two players and choose a no-lynch mafia will simply kill a player that is not in danger of being lynched. The next day town will have the same doubt about the same players and will have one townie less.
The only time I agreed to a no-lynch it was a 2 townies+1 SK+1 Mafia situation in hopes scum would kill each other.

Actually, I agree with you here. I've been arguing this point since our first no-lynch. Probably your bit of 'looking townie' to add more weight to the BS claim to follow.

Oman watched

Night 1 - Ythill
Night 2 - crywolf

Last Night, I watched

crywolf again.
I would have preferred to watch Elias, but after using his one shot vig he was like another Vanilla, so I decided to watch the claimed doc again.

Nice backstory. Care to add some flavour Oman got on his results? You know, just to make this story fit better?

She was tageted by

fhqwhgads.

The flavor says something about him reading a Nursery tales book to crywolf.

The fact alone that fhqwhgads claimed vanilla is reason enough to vote him, since it's obviously a lie. So:
vote : fhqwhgads

(Bolding mine)
Lies. Could you please elaborate more on the flavour other than 'something about'?

BTW,

FOS : Ythill

After I said I would not be able to use internet during the weekend (only on Monday at work) you gave me a 24h warning

KNOWING I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO POST

. You, sure is a great candidate for tomorrow's lynch.

Wow, setting up tomorrow's lynch as well. Nice one. But if your plan works, there won't be a lynch tomorrow.

Fine, enough with the rhetoric. Firstly, apologies to Ythill. This has almost cleared you 100% in my books. It also makes me wonder about rash's alignment, but that's an argument for tomorrow (if we have a tomorrow).

Look, I'm not going to try and give a soppy appeal to anyone not to vote me. You just shouldn't. Because town will lose. Bionic, you are either wrong (or lying).

I've just got this to say. Why wait until now? DR knew we were waiting for his investigation. He even mentioned it, and posted more than once afterwards without saying anything. If I was so obviously guilty, why wait until right before the deadline?

I have been the one complaining about votes in LYLO. I've been the one saying we should vote, rather than no-lynch. My vote is easy.

vote: Dead Rikimaru

. Town's fate is now in the rest of your hands.

It is 00:07 now in my time zone, so I probably won't be here to answer any questions to follow. But do ask, with the deadline extension (thanks mod!) I'll sure have time to answer your concerns. I won't wait until deadline to sow confusion.

[fhqwhgads]

I am not sure this makes sense. What purpose does scum have to set up 2 lynches? He has set up a situation of you vs. him. If he is scum, he either gets you lynched today on a lie and wins, or he is lynched and nobody will care who he suspected.

What I meant was he was acting like he's setting up the lynch for tomorrow. Subtle, really. Because scum would know if I'm lynched, there is no tomorrow. But he's trying to look town by making it seem like he's looking at tomorrow. Makes better sense?

1. How does any of this clear Ythill?

2. Why were you never wondering about Rash's alignment?

His FOS of Ythill. Sure, it could be bussing, but in my mind, I was thinking Ythill has been pushing a bit too hard towards DR and crywolf. Now, DR is guilty as sin. I should say that it doesn't mean I believe 100% Ythill is town. But I have gone from a point where I was ready to hang him, to consider him as town. That is quite a jump. Also, my choice of words might have been unfortunate, but I was jumping from the fire into the frying pan. With Ythill now moving lower on my scumdar, rash has been the one attacking him the most. As Ythill himself said, he could be tunneling (my question to him was really just to get his clear answer), but I don't believe discussing Rash's allignment today is going to bring us any closer to surviving anyway.

DR also argued to vote instead of no lynch, so using this in your defense is pointless. In fact I would wager more scum argued to lynch yesterday than to no lynch. We already know Tony was town and nobody is arguing that Elias is anything but town. NL absolutely was the best play yesterday and I feel strongly that it was anti-town to push otherwise.

I did not miss this. I have also said in my post, I believe this was another attempt to look pro-town. Believe what you will, but I don't think arguing against no-lynch is ever pro town, unless we have extreme circumstances. Maybe we did have extreme circumstances in your eyes. It wasn't extreme enough to me though.

[fhqwhgads]

@Bionic: agreed.

Look, here's another thing to consider: Say I am town and DR is scum. That means (presumably) 2 other scum are out there. They are probably going to be cautiously try to get at least one townie to vote for me. Not that I am against it and I know it's been a short time since DR's 'reveal', but most questions and debate after the reveal has been about me. Probably trying to catch me in a contradiction under pressure.

Let's look at the other side. Me scum, and DR's town. The roles should be reversed. Yet since DR's reveal no one (except me) have been questioning him further. Like I pointed out, his 'flavours' regarding his reveal has been a bit vague, yet no one else commented on this.

I realise the above argument may be somewhat WIFOMy, but consider that he 'revealed' game changing info when he thought we were a day away from deadline, thus limiting discussion about said information. Again, why, when he posted earlier and we demanded his investigation results did he just keep quiet about it? Even posting more than once? What possible gain could it be to town to keep that information quiet for so long?

Thus, I feel, if you are town, equal amounts of pressure should be put on both me and DR. Yet DR has been quiet since his post. I'm betting he's going to be quiet until deadline.

[fhqwhgads]

@Ythill: Yes, I am aware of the WIFOM (which I downplayed). I also am aware that not enough people have participated to make my argument completely viable. Normally, I would have waited for more responses before posting that, but time is of the essence.

You say I missed two things. It is not clear to me what the second thing is. I'd also like to hear bionic's response to your questions. I have, however, if this plays out in town's favour, a pretty clear idea who I think is scum (bar maybe one person). At the moment I think it's in everybody's best interest that I keep that to myself, unless you can convince me otherwise.

Hint: I'm not on my scumlist

[fhqwhgads]

Unfortunately I need to get to bed early tonight. Got a very early morning tomorrow. I don't really have more to say in my defence, unless someone has something specific to ask, but I'll probably only be able to answer 12 hours from now.

@bionic: One last thing, what do you make of DR's stubbornness in not revealing his information until the last minute? I think he's had more than enough time to out me since he made numerous posts before he did it.

[fhqwhgads]

Wel, it's one day until deadline, and it seem we have some split opinions about voting either DR or me. Well, for one thing, I think we all know no-lynch isn't an option today, so I urge you all to come to some decision. At least if I do get lynched, we lose on our terms, rather than sitting and waiting to get picked off.

@Bionic: While I might see your argument that pushing for a lynch might seem anti-town to you, I maintain my argument that our first no-lynch was MORE anti-town, and led to the second one. I also have to respectfully disagree with your statement that it is AS anti-town as withholding the information DR did.

But I think it's pretty clear by now that our opinions are different on this subject.

Again, I urge all of you to vote before deadline. Win or lose, let's do it by action, and not inaction.

[fhqwhgads]

[quote"bionicchop2]
I really am convinced the only reason scum would kill Tony last night (outside of crywolf being scum) is that they knew he would not be protected. Since I don't see any way BOTH crywolf and DR are scum, I believe crywolf was blocked. I also think Oman was less scummy that fhq throughout the game.
[/quote]

Does this mean you believe crywolf just made bad decisions in her protection choices?

[fhqwhgads]

Damn quote tags!

[fhqwhgads]

Sorry, was posting it according my own timezone.

[fhqwhgads]

If it is not too much to ask, I'd like to hear Elias and Crywolf's take on what's happening.

And Rash has gone from VERY vocal to very quiet as well. Can you please also give your take on the situation. If all 3 of you are suddenly missing till deadline, we're screwed.

[fhqwhgads]

Cry,

Uhm, thanks, I think. At least you are posting. Hoping for more positive results from the rest though. Ok, one technical thing:

DR is lying.
Dead Rikimaru wrote:

The reason I voted crywolf
By the time I voted crywolf I had not finished catching up and I didn't know she had claimed doc.
I just wanted to avoid the no-lynch (see below) and voted the player closer to get lynched.


Sure,

or you were just bussing

, because you thought crywolf would be the inevitable lynch. Or maybe Cry is still telling the truth, and you were on your way to an easy win.

Agree with the bolded statement above to a point. I’m not sure if I’m ready to do a 180 with my opinion on DR.

I think you misunderstand what bussing means. I was saying that if you were scum, he was jumping on your wagon to look townie. For you to agree to that is admitting you are scum, which I am sure you did not mean.

All I can implore you is to please consider DR's posts and the amount of time he's had to post what he did. I believe he chose his timing deliberately. Unfortunately, Oman was playing pretty bulletproof, so there's not much I can do to convince you from his posts, other than him also delaying his results without proper reasoning.

[fhqwhgads]

@ fhq: Read the phrase I bolded and tell me what you meant by that.

Sure, the answer is quite simple, it's a mistranslation, or rather, a direct translation from a common Afrikaans (my first language) saying.

The saying goes something like: "Dit was 'n slegte skuif van jou kant af." Which quite literally means "It was a bad move from your side."

OK, all 3 people who could conceivably be a parter if DR was scum have posted since my vote for fhq last night (ythill, rash and cry). None of them have made any attempt to vote for fhq. I have moved from 95% to 99% sure of fhq being scum.

I find you have double standards here sir. Both rash and crywolf have said they would vote before day's end. Crywolf even said she'd vote me. It's fine if DR waits until deadline to drop game-changing information, but you hold it against people who want to wait till deadline to vote at LYLO? Seriously? That's your argument? Why not try to build a case based on facts against me? Other than it's obv-scum to be against our second no-lynch.

[fhqwhgads]

How much time till deadline?

[fhqwhgads]

4 comments:

1) I like rash's thorough analysis. I think everyone should take a look at it seriously. I say this, not knowing whether he's gonna vote me or not.

2) Elias, we REALLY need some content (or at least a stance) from you.

3) I do realise my early game hasn't been strong. I've had my ups and downs. I'm NOT using this as an excuse. If my inconsistent play is going to make me look scummier than Oman/DR, then I take full responsibility for being a liability and ultimately losing the game for town.

4) Unfortunately, due to it being almost 00:00 here, I'm going to bed soon. This means I probably will be waking up to see if I'm dead or alive. It is unfortunate, since Elias hasn't made comments yet (and if he want's my input, I'm not going to be here). Rash's analysis is also starting only now. I would have liked to follow it while he was posting.

Meh, I'll see you on the other side.

(I might look in if I'm still awake or can't sleep)

[fhqwhgads]

No celebrations here, except that I survived the day. Hope I survive the night...

[fhqwhgads]

Wow, that was too close.

If I understand the Mafia Spy role correctly, it means scum probably did not know his alignment. This means we only have two scum (or we would have been game over by now). So scum would also have known we weren't really in LYLO yesterday (we are now, however).

Also, for all the scum knows yesterday's lynch would have been a townie either way. I think a reread with this knowledge should be interesting.

I agree with rash, crywolf should start talking. I'm going to be very careful about bandwagons and who's starting them, seeing as we are REALLY in LYLO today.

[fhqwhgads]

We probably were in LYLO yesterday, but I don't think the scum were all too sure they could win by quicklynching...

Possibly. Would mafia win if they and the spy was the majority? I think the problem here is that we are unsure of the details pertaining to the role. Possibly the spy would make the townie count one less, meaning if two townies were killed, we would be equal today, so I suppose you are right, but only if the lynch AND the nightkill were townies.

The lack of a quicklynch would mean scum was still unsure of DR's role.

Bionic. I didn't want to see him gone seeing as how he's been the most helpful in finding the damned scum, even though he wasn't on DR's kill.

Really? You thought scum would kill bionic tonight? You do know you are supposed to protect the most likely kill? With no other explanation we all assumed Elias was the vig. Maybe the only person in this game we were almost sure was town! I'm getting very weary of this. If it wasn't LYLO, my vote would be on you.

FOS: Crywolf

.

Wolf, you've made quite a statement there. How did you come to the conclusion that bionic was the "most helpful" in finding scum?

Seconded. Seeing as we technically haven't found any scum yet, what do you base that statement on?

In the variation where spy is recruitable, the spy becomes goon. Since the role revealed at death was spy, I was thinking it would be likely he was not recruited. Identity is not revealed to mafia members unless recruited from what I have seen of spy / traitor variations.

Likely, but not fact. We really have no idea how the mod would inform us of his role.

[fhqwhgads]

Sorry for my lack of posting, I was away for the weekend and my mobile internet did not work.

I see not much has happened over the weekend. I urge wolf to answer the questions she has been asked. At the moment, I feel she's the most likely candidate for my voting today.

[fhqwhgads]

Rash:

Any light on what you've found?

[fhqwhgads]

??

Bionic, I have no idea what you tried to say in the last post. Elaborate?

[fhqwhgads]

*facepalm*

Don't worry, I just got it.

I am however, a bit worried that everyone is approving of this bandwagon. It either means we are barking up the wrong tree, or a scumpartner is bussing...

[fhqwhgads]

I have to say, I have a nagging feeling about everybody agreeing, but then, scum would be stupid not to bus now in order to survive? Standing out from the crowd would look really bad.

So I suppose you got my approval for the hammer.

[fhqwhgads]

Limited access, that's why. Will post on Monday at the latest.

[fhqwhgads]

Somebody give me a reason why crywolf would not have voted for fhq and instead voted and hammered on DR.

Who knows? But she didn't. She might not have been sure that DR was the spy. She did however know for sure that I wasn't mafia. Maybe she believed DR really was the watcher and the 'action' he saw was me as the spy targeting her? Or maybe she thought being under pressure for the whole game so far and being unsure of a confirmed win she would look better if she helped in lynching 'scum'?

These are all reasons, but not necessarily good ones. Only she'll know for sure.

@Ythill: You are of course right, a total legit reason is that I am her scum partner. No logical reason I can argue against that (apart from the obvious). Your second point however, is only more plausible if DR did know who was scum. (hmm, I should probably stop arguing cases which include me as scum )

Warning, WIFOMy argument following:

We have three people left here, with one scum. The perfect strategy at the moment for scum would to be buddying up to a townie and point fingers at the other one. From the above posts it seems to me this is exactly what bionic is doing.

However, at the risk of sounding like doing the exact same thing, I'm pretty confident that Ythill is town. I can't believe he's been bussing crywolf so agressively all game. I certainly never had a strong stance against her (which will probably count against me), but as pointed out, bionic had very strong opinions which he never really followed through on.

Also, since the me vs DR argument, me knowing my allignment, have been almost certain bionic is scum. At that time, I stayed quiet about it, because I believed it would look a bit OMGUS and I was in a bit of a tight spot. The fact that DR turned out to be a spy did make me doubt my certainty, however.

Pitting him against Ythill at this moment, however, makes me firmly believe he's scum.

I'll even go as far as

vote: bionic

.

That vote probably won't change.

[fhqwhgads]

fcuk!

[fhqwhgads]

Wow.

Ythill, you just rocked. I almost had you pinned as scum during your argument with rash (nice being on your side of the argument this time, rash ), and then DR came with his bombshell.

This actually was my first game out of the newbie thread and boy, was I out of my depth, but I do think I did learn a lot. I got kinda frustrated on the end of day one and totally changed my style (some of you picked up on this). Then I felt a bit overwhelmed, plus work held me busy. Then, the most exciting part for me was in the whole DR vs me debate.

All in all, during that debate I was sure Ythill was town (nice one, DR) and crywolfs lynch just 'confirmed' it. I was sure bionic was scum as well, because I was pretty confident that rash was town.

Well played by scum, and crywolf, shame on you! I really started to feel sorry for you when you outed your frustrations for being picked on day in and day out! Women manipulate me so easily