Open 88 - Polygamist Mafia (Game Over) before 650

[Jahudo]

I kind of suspect that thier understanding of the setup was so incompleat that they (both of them) thought that as lovers they needed to avoid being suspected of being lovers.

That doesn't add up to me.

I said earlier the chat made them sound like newbies, but Jebus looks anti-town trying to be pro-town and 3jf looks anti-town trying to be anti-town with what he's suggesting.

The chat shouldn't prove what they are, but if 3jf is replaced their ideas shouldn't count against the replacements, right?

[Adel]

I think that townies would be more worried about finding scum than avoiding suspicion themselves.

I agree. Most other I people I have discussed that with do.

I kind of suspect that thier understanding of the setup was so incompleat that they (both of them) thought that as lovers they needed to avoid being suspected of being lovers.

Can 3fj shed some light on this?

That doesn't add up to me.

Vote: Adel

dude it really doesn't make sense to me either, but I can't think of a more reasonable explaination for why they wanted to avoid suspicion.

[armlx]

Jebus: It is a plan then. I'll go after kloud

This is the line that really gets me. Pre-game plans to attack a given player?

[Adel]

Jebus: It is a plan then. I'll go after kloud

This is the line that really gets me. Pre-game plans to attack a given player?

yep. for the "random" lynch even.

[armlx]

I mean, there's the whole WIFOM of why you would even discuss that chat, but I honestly see no reason to move my vote.

[Goatrevolt]

I kind of suspect that thier understanding of the setup was so incompleat that they (both of them) thought that as lovers they needed to avoid being suspected of being lovers.

That doesn't add up to me.

I said earlier the chat made them sound like newbies, but Jebus looks anti-town trying to be pro-town and 3jf looks anti-town trying to be anti-town with what he's suggesting.

The chat shouldn't prove what they are, but if 3jf is replaced their ideas shouldn't count against the replacements, right?

I'm not sure exactly what you're suggesting, but if someone replaces out, their replacement does not get a fresh start or a clean slate.

[armlx]

I'm not sure exactly what you're suggesting, but if someone replaces out, their replacement does not get a fresh start or a clean slate.

2nd. Adel should know this.

[Jahudo]

I'm not sure exactly what you're suggesting, but if someone replaces out, their replacement does not get a fresh start or a clean slate.

No not completely. I just mean that Jebus' random vote idea and 3jf's inactivity are not strong enough tells to lynch their replacements. I can feel neutral on this group at this stage. Even if they feel like a good instinct vote, it's not well reasoned.

[Xtoxm]

Vote Count

Zoolander (0)
Farside22 (0)
Citizen Karne (0)
LlamaFluff (2) Farside22, OpposedForce
Goatrevolt (0)
Jahudo (1) Zoolander
OpposedForce (1) LlamaFluff
armlx (0)
Caboose (1) Goatrevolt
3fj (1) Jahudo
kloud1516 (2) Adel, 3fj
Adel (3) armlx, Citizen Karne, Caboose

Not Voting (1) Kloud1516

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

OpposedForce and Zoolander prodded.

[armlx]

I just mean that Jebus' random vote idea and 3jf's inactivity are not strong enough tells to lynch their replacements.

Why does the replacement matter?

[Jahudo]

Why does the replacement matter?

Because they cannot defend why Jebus and probably 3fj left the game. Unless you were ready to lynch Jebus and 3fj before Abel replaced in, I feel that what Abel and a potential 3fj replacement say and do are more useful because they can defend themselves.

armix and goat: I feel like you're taking my original opinion on this matter and making it sound like I was stating a fact for all cases. Or was I not being clear?

[armlx]

Unless you were ready to lynch Jebus and 3fj before Abel replaced in

I was.

Because they cannot defend why Jebus and probably 3fj left the game.

Thats not an issue here. I don't care why they left, just what they did before then.

I feel that what Abel and a potential 3fj replacement say and do are more useful because they can defend themselves.

Sure. I agree, but thats not a reason to drop all suspicion of them.

[OpposedForce]

Apologies. Been busy over the past week. Picking up prod.

paraphrased quicktopic thread:

xtox opens thread

Jebus: We should random lynch someone since we only have to kill one scum to win and there is no night phase. Day 1 our chances are 2/5, and day 2 wit will be 3/5, so overal it will be 50/50. I will introduce the idea. We should roleclaim early.
3jf: early roleclaim will just make us a target. We should random lynch though.
3jf:

Also we should vote for somebody different every two days to avoid suspicion.

Day 1 you should fos, and then I'll vote for them.
Day 2 we both pick separate people scummy people

Jebus: It is a plan then. I'll go after kloud

xtoxm closes thread

Wow. I was inclined not to vote Jebus but this is just to off the chart for me.

Vote:Adel

At the beggining of the game I didn't really put a vote on (him/her?) because I thought it was a town slip but now after seeing this paraphrase I can't comprehend what kind of a mess that intention would of gotten us into. Note the first part bolded when 3jf suggests to vote for someone different to avoid suspicion. It wouldn't be for the town's well being to push a random lynch on different people and have the chance of mislynching to save yourself of suspicion. I see scum trying to mislynch and at the same time avoid any suspicion.

The second bolded part is ridiculous and scummy. I can only see scum trying to aim for a townie to lynch with the whole diversion of randomly lynching to get them to victory. If they were town thinking the idea of randomly lynching then why choose a specific person? (in this case Kloud) Why not go along with town consensus to choose a random lynch instead of trying to aim for a person. It seems to me like scum choosing a townie then wanting to lynch them Day 1 to safely get them to Day 2.

[Citizen Karne]

Glad to see the wagon starting back up on Adel.

After more careful analysis of the daytalk and Jebus and 3fj's posts, I would like to officially retract my suspicion of kloud and armlx based on scum distancing.

[Citizen Karne]

Also, the mod hasn't said it yet but I am replacing The Pope's Tiara.

I said it in the same post as the latest vote count - Mod.

Hmm. Must have missed it. I apologize.

[Adel]

Unless you were ready to lynch Jebus and 3fj before Abel replaced in

I was.

ah, so Armix is all about lynching newbie for making a mistake based off of inexperience, and keeping this day limited to one wagon. got it.

unvote, vote:armix

[kloud1516]

I don't know if paraphrased chats should factor in much or at all, but it does sound like two typical newbies to me.

Newbie town or scum?

I think that townies would be more worried about finding scum than avoiding suspicion themselves.

Or is that just me?

QFT. I would also like to know what you, Jahudo, meant in the comment above. Were you referring to newbie town or scum? You might have already answered this, and if so I have missed it, so could you either respond/answer again please?

I kind of suspect that thier understanding of the setup was so incompleat that they (both of them) thought that as lovers they needed to avoid being suspected of being lovers.

That doesn't add up to me.

I said earlier the chat made them sound like newbies, but Jebus looks anti-town trying to be pro-town and 3jf looks anti-town trying to be

anti-town

with what he's suggesting.

The chat shouldn't prove what they are, but if 3jf is replaced their ideas shouldn't count against the replacements, right?

Do you mean that 3fj looks anti-town trying to be pro-town here? Just thought I should ask for clarity.

I'm not sure exactly what you're suggesting, but if someone replaces out, their replacement does not get a fresh start or a clean slate.

No not completely.

I just mean that Jebus' random vote idea and 3jf's inactivity are not strong enough tells to lynch their replacements. I can feel neutral on this group at this stage.

Even if they feel like a good instinct vote, it's not well reasoned.

1) I agree with Goat here; My own opinion of Adel in regards to replacing Jebus can be found in post 139. I still feel this way, and have not seen any reasons that indicate my suspicions of Jebus/Adel should deteriorate.

2) I feel as though you are contradicting yourself here, Jahudo, for you claim that the random vote idea and 3fj's inactivity are not strong enough to be tells, yet your vote is on 3fj due to said inactivity. This isn't adding up to me. You then go on to say that you feel neutral on this group at this stage, and if this is the case, then why is your vote still on 3fj?

FoS: Jahudo

I feel as though you have continued to flip flop on your opinions. First you suggest that because Jebus defended the random lynch proposal that he/she was pro-town/not worthy of the criticism and suspicion being given, and now you are claiming that both Jebus and 3fj are/were pro-town trying to appear anti-town. You seem to be trying to maintain a position in neutral grounds, and I am not liking it.

This being said, I have not found anything that OF has done/said to particularly stand out, so this detracts slightly from the thought of the Jahudo/OF pair being scum. For now, that is.

[kloud1516]

Unless you were ready to lynch Jebus and 3fj before Abel replaced in

I was.

ah, so Armix is all about lynching newbie for making a mistake based off of inexperience, and keeping this day limited to one wagon. got it.

unvote, vote:armix

Ah, so Adel is all about lynching a player while once again strawmanning his case in order to justify the vote. Got it. That would be the second time Adel has employed fallacy-induced arguments/reasoning into the game.

vote: Adel

I am going to directly quote from my post 163:

Even if they were newbies, as I said before in post, a suspicious suggestion is still a suspicious suggestion, no matter if the person who suggested it decides to defend it. I think this holds true for a "raw newbie" suggesting a scummy plan as well, for they are just as likely to be scum as anyone else, and are therefore just as likely to make mistakes. Not all newbies are as oblivious as you seem to be attempting to portray them.

This still applies. Jebus and 3fj both agreed on a plan that was suspicious in itself, but with the paraphrased conversation you provided, you have just revealed that they had no intentions of it being a random vote, as Jebus intended on targeting someone (me) in particular while 3fj thought it best to vote someone else in order to avoid suspicion. I would like to note that even after saying this, 3fj still voted for me, which leads me to believe that they both intended on keeping their votes on me in the "random" Day 1 vote as shocking as that might be. This is scummy play, no matter how many in-game posts either of them have.

[Jahudo]

Kloud: I agree with you in post 139 when you say this:

seeing as how she has been replaced we shall not be able to know if this was the case or not. I do not advise dwelling on Jebus' intentions, as it will only detract from conversation at hand. This is not to say that looking back at Jebus' provided content is a bad thing, as it may provide clues/indication as to her and her partner's alignment later on down the road.

Jebus’ defense didn’t prove anything for me and neither does this supposedly real chat. My whole opinion that 'what Jebus said shouldn’t not counting against the replacements' is like you say: we shouldn’t dwell on his intentions and he’s not here to defend them anymore. We'll learn more by using Adel actions against Adel than Jebus actions on Adel.

I then gave the opinion that I felt neutral and uneasy about a lynch right now. However, it does seem that Adel is trying to strawman people that want to believe a different theory than the mistaken newbie townie view of Jebus. But besides the vote on armix, Adel isn't saying anyone's scummy because of their view on Jebus.

A few more things:

-I didn’t defend the random lynch proposal or say it wasn’t worthy of criticism. I merely acknowledged that Jebus took the heat in stride and didn’t react irrationally by claiming or OMGUS or something. I think there's something to be said in that.

-The tone of the chat Adel provided is worded to assume they do not understand the setup (ie: they are newbies) and that they are town (Jebus: we only have to kill one scum to win). Besides that, Jebus actually believes in his random lynch so he’s TRYING to be pro-town. 3fj believes they should be deceptive to avoid suspicion which SOUNDS like a scum strategy. Even though I won’t say the chat is real, the chat makes them out to be newbie town.

As I think 3fj is getting replaced...

unvote

[Adel]

hint to the other townies: I wrote this setup and I have already won as town once under this setup. The key to winning is to build more than one legitimate wagon on day 1 if the town is going to have a chance to win after a day 1 mislynch. The first run of polygamist mafia also saw a newbie get lynched for being an idiot (including self-voting) which is common in many games on this site. Under this setup, the "lynch the village idiot for being the most scummy looking on day 1" tactic yeilds very little information.

I adore this setup because it simplifies mafia. Scum cannot bus. Scum cannot NK players for being obviously protown. The town can't follow the cop, and there are no roles that discorage pro-town players from being actively involved.

I highly suggest that other townies take a close look at other players, in addition to me. Trying to identify which player is managing to push my wagon in such a way as to avoid being held accountable for it will go a long way towards winning this game for the town.

[Citizen Karne]

hint to the other townies: I wrote this setup and I have already won as town once under this setup. The key to winning is to build more than one legitimate wagon on day 1 if the town is going to have a chance to win after a day 1 mislynch. The first run of polygamist mafia also saw a newbie get lynched for being an idiot (including self-voting) which is common in many games on this site. Under this setup, the "lynch the village idiot for being the most scummy looking on day 1" tactic yeilds very little information.

I adore this setup because it simplifies mafia. Scum cannot bus. Scum cannot NK players for being obviously protown. The town can't follow the cop, and there are no roles that discorage pro-town players from being actively involved.

I highly suggest that other townies take a close look at other players, in addition to me. Trying to identify which player is managing to push my wagon in such a way as to avoid being held accountable for it will go a long way towards winning this game for the town.

This is logical, and full of justifiable ethos. However, just because a newbie made a mistake does not mean you can right him off as "noobtown" and consider it foolish to lynch him. Most of what was posted in the daytalk seems much like noobscum, and I believe noobtown would (in the overwhelming majority of cases) not propose a strategy in a game, as they are usually more unsure of themselves. It feels like they looked at the set-up, did a little math, and figured they would gamble and try to get the town to RL.

Also, would you please elaborate upon the circumstances in which the newbie was lynched in the first run of the game?

[Adel]

1. check the math.
2. dcorbe was "really scummy" from the perspective of all players.

[Caboose]

*bump*

[armlx]

ah, so Armix is all about lynching newbie for making a mistake based off of inexperience, and keeping this day limited to one wagon. got it.

Ah, so now lynching someone for wanting to lynch someone for an EXTREMELY anti-town plan is now scummy?

[Xtoxm]

Zoolander has not picked up his prod, I shall add him to the replacement list.

Farside prodded.