Mafia 85 - Murder at the Bus Stop (game over)

[Riceballtail]

/confirmizationed

Yay fof butchering English!

[Riceballtail]

Vote: Rest Fermata

Because this may be my only chance to vote you without being out of discussion.

[Riceballtail]

Page nine already? I got behind quick.

[Riceballtail]

When people post in a mafia game, I take it for granted that they have read the thread unless they specifically mention otherwise. There is no need for a post like that unless you are trying to make some point about a certain player's posts.

If I wanted to make a point about a certain player's posts, I'd make that point. Obfuscation is pro-scum, Clarification is pro-town.

I was trying to get more out of him because I dislike people who do that.

Please explain, are you stating that you believe posting a PBP is a net negative?

Anyone can do a PBP and add nothing to it. It's a post with no susbstance. Anyone can do a PBP without effort, but to actually make a point on people who you find scummy is harder for scum to do then town (typically).

^ Truth is in this post.

[Riceballtail]

UNVOTE

Random phase is over, and I am not convinced of anyone to lynch right now.

[Riceballtail]

I am also agreeing with the current wagon on Slicey.

VOTE:Slicey

[Riceballtail]

I'm for A too. I don't see us getting any more info out of today.

[Riceballtail]

<---i kan reed wurds an comprahendshon them good! dahurrr! *drools on shirt*

Sure you can, just keep telling yourself that.

[Riceballtail]

Sorry I had to put more attention into avoiding the noose in two other games?

[Riceballtail]

And why do you want a claim?

[Riceballtail]

If I could pick three, it would be between Jebus, Xtoxm, and Shanba. They're definitely acting very distant toward each other, which may be an attempt to bus one, and clear the other two. Fourth would be Farside, but I feel less strong about her than the rest.

[Riceballtail]

I said it may be an attempt, not that is must be. I still think one of the three of you are scum though.

[Riceballtail]

I'm not completely sure I agree with Surye yet, but I'll read through his posts again later.

[Riceballtail]

I vote against any Sir T re-replacing on principle of him having an unrevealed night choice.

Wait, what? How do you know he had a night choice?

[Riceballtail]

I vote against any Sir T re-replacing on principle of him having an unrevealed night choice.

Wait, what? How do you know he had a night choice?

He died and was revealed as a bus driver.....

So do you think he was a jailkeeper of some sort? My guess is mason personally.

[Riceballtail]

Bus Driver is a role, check the wiki or Mikeburnfire's site.

I hadn't seen it, I'll look again.

[Riceballtail]

Okay, that makes sense now. I figured it was some kind of flavor for a role.

[Riceballtail]

If so, then there's a problem with him being in the game twice.

[Riceballtail]

On this week's RBT Check, we have Surye for the guest.

0: Confirm/Random Vote.
1: Offtopic about Alabaska.
2: Game theory argument.
3: Celebrating game theory argument.
4: Argues against the lynching of lurkers.
5: Says voting them up to L-2 is okay, but not to lynch a lurker.
6: Explains the exception to post 5.
7: Sarcastic response to thought that saying lurkers may not get lynched means scum lurkers will lurk more.
8: Votes Sir T for pretending to play.
9: States pretending to play is worse than discussing theory.
10: Unvotes SirT saying that Sir T was being unclear.
11: Argues meta is a nulltell in some cases (specifically Sir T).
12: Says votes lack explanation to analyze reaction.
13: Defends against megatheory
14: states 13 is full of tagfail
15: Restates his problem with Megatheory's post
16: Confirms his point against MT is 100% after missing the end of a post.
17: States surprise to farside's vote, as it is still staying on him
18: States farside is clouding the issue of Surye unvoting Sir T
19: Doubleposted, requesting deletion.
20: States voting for reaction is a good strategy, but not the only one.
21: Says he has done good work as scum by PBPA (does this make PBPAs scummy?)
22: Defends against MT by sarcasticly saying he only gets one shot to make his point.
23: Responds to Sir T voting him
24: Says slicey had a scummy motive by unvoting armlx
25: Defends against a Sir T post
26: Votes slicey, good reasoning behind it
27: States fakeclaim is likely coming
28: States the case against slicey is valid
29: States that we have a claim, are at L-1, and that slicey is acting like noobscum
30: Offers to buy the drink of anyone who hammers
31: States everyone on the wagon is guilty of a mislynch, not just the hammerer
32: Restates 31
33: Asks Empking if his vote has no intention of actually lynching Slicey, stating Empking is being scummy
34: Tells Empking to unvote if he isn't ready for the day to end
35: Asks Wall-E if Empking was actually trying to push for a lynch
36: Comments on Moratorium's post about Wall-E's Devil's Advocate
37: Tells Rest to continue asking questions and make the thread happen, instead of letting the thread sit there.
38: Suddenly decides that Rest's point of pfour players not posting gives us something to work with.
39: Defends Empking's stance on voting, but not quicklynching.
40: Responds to Wall-E asking about how to deal with Slicey
41: Says that Slicey had used faulty logic.

42

: Responds to K7 saying Slicey claimed vanilla, despite ignoring the fact K7 made a very scummy post.
43: Asks Xtoxm for reasons behind his Fos/Vote
44: Welcomes Gremwell
45: Claims this is the best D1 wagon he's seen
46: Says he hasn't played as many games as Armlx to have a fair comparison
47: Claims there hasn't been much to post on since his last, but that votes shifting is suspicious and noted. Still pushes Slicey.
48: Still says that there's scummy things about, but not doing anything about it today.
49: Someone who jumped ship last minute may be a good target for D2.
50: Agrees against Sir T replacing back in
51: States that he was indeed for the Slicey wagon
52: States he has not done his full end of day analysis.
53: States that Wall-E is not interested in discussion.
54: States Wall-E has done the same thing he accuses Surye of doing
55: States he rode the Slicey wagon with convinction.

56

: States that using Ctrl+F, he votes Slicey the second time in isolation. However, this is not true if you read things in context, not just looking for "Slicey"
57: Says he didn't add fuel to the wagon without voting.
58: Seems to implicate we should vote someone who jumped off the Slicey wagon
59: Doesn't seem to understand what SL says by "Do you want points for saying something scummy then doing it?"
60: Says jumping off a wagon at the end is only for appearances
61: Says that what he said definitely did come up today
62: Says he may not be investing enough into it, just discussing it.

And it is in conclusion to this analysis that 1) They hurt my brain to do. 2)

VOTE:Surye

for the two items bolded above.

[Riceballtail]

No, it's not baseless. I've pointed out the two specific areas where I find you scummy. I realize I miscounted on the Slicey part, as it looks similar to Sir T, but you did state that Slicey could have a scummy motive in 24. It's all about how you put the words together.

You also ignored 42, which is the part that really set me off. Even though he does lurk a lot, he doesn't act this uninformed.

I never once said that what you did with the Slicey wagon was bad or scummy, I AGREED with the wagon. But the way things can be read you could have been talking about him too, in addition to Sir T. 22 is a specific example, despite you not having mentioned him by name.

Remember, analyzing can be done from many views. I tried to leave Slicey out of it, but had to go back after 56 and look again.

[Riceballtail]

I'm pretty sure that it's just you. I understood it.

[Riceballtail]

I'm still not sure how to react to this Xtoxm/Surye arguement. Something about it doesn't sit right with me though.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Surye (4): springlullaby, Riceballtail, Muerrto, Xtoxm
Xtoxm (2): Surye, armlx
Jebus (2): farside22, Shanba
Cream147 (2): Empking, BlakAdder
Sir T. (1): Wall-E

Not voting (11): Megatheory, Azuma, RestFermata, Gremwell, Alabaska J, Cream147, Jebus, Slepz, killa seven, Zazier, al4xz

With 22 alive it's 12 to lynch.

[Riceballtail]

MOD:

Can we get some prods on the inactives please? I'm feeling like there's a lagging from people who aren't posting enough (coming from me, this is bad people).

[Riceballtail]

I see Xtoxm's point, but I'm not sure how much I want to follow it. But I do have to agree that the game is going to be a lot slower with the amount of lurking we have going on.

[Riceballtail]

I just want to say that the K7 wagon, although I think it was a good idea to get him into the game instead of constantly lurking, really shouldn't have ever made it that far.

For now,

VOTE:Surye

.

[Riceballtail]

VOTE:Wall-E
HoS:Al4ex

Mod: vote not counted, unvote first

Clearly these two are scumbuddies, if he admits that there's a good case, but refuses to actually put the vote on this early.

[Riceballtail]

EBWOP: al4xz, not al4ex. Under a bit of stress right now and not thinking as clearly as I wish I was.

[Riceballtail]

UNVOTE; VOTE:al4xz

The case is very strong, and I still think Wall-E could be scum, as well as Surye, but I'm pretty sure al4xz is indeed scum.

[Riceballtail]

More votes on the scum please.

[Riceballtail]

UNVOTE; VOTE:Jebus

If he is indeed a cop, he will likely have a result or die tonight.

For now, I intend to follow him. His claim could indeed prove useful should someone else have a protective role.

[Riceballtail]

I would actually believe a scum bus driver. It fits the theme, and takes the phrase busing to a whole new level.

I'd also be surprised if, for some reason, we didn't have a vig of some sort.

[Riceballtail]

Based on al4xz's defending on Wall-E,

VOTE:Wall-E

Still debating the Xtoxm debate.

[Riceballtail]

Uh, wrong wrong wrong wrong. WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong.

Of course we're going to rehash past stuff, you don't get a pass. Not now, not ever.

If you think it's baseless, show why it's baseless. Show why you and al4xz weren't buddying up, and then distancing from one another once it was pointed out.

This becomes extremely more relevant when one of the two in suspect flips scum.

[Riceballtail]

Anyone else see Jebus' last post as subtle misdirection? "Nah, Wall-E is probably town because al4 defended him. Let's talk about it some other time."

What's your big hurry to move on? We can talk about it now. Hell, we can talk about it from now until Judgement Day. You agree? Good, let's do that.

Personally, I thought it was a bit more than subtle.

FoS:Jebus

Mod edit
Votecount:
Xtoxm (5): Surye, BlakAdder, Jebus, farside22, Wall-E
Wall-E (3): kuribo, Riceballtail, armlx
farside22 (1): Xtoxm

Not voting (6): Gremwell, Slepz, Zazier, RestFermata, ThAdmiral, springlullaby

With 15 alive it's 8 to lynch.

[Riceballtail]

Reasons? Being a super buddy to someone who is now confirmed scum. Someone who defended you, and you accepted a lot of help from. Then, when suspicion came, you switched sides on each other and distanced. That's almost a scum claim in itself.

[Riceballtail]

Just throwing it out there... he could be a Mafia doc.

[Riceballtail]

armlx, investigate him anyway, there's a chance it may be something :/

What do I expect to get?

What do you think you'll get when scum tells you to investigate someone?

[Riceballtail]

I was going to believe the claim, at first take, but I'm only being further convinced of scumminess now.

[Riceballtail]

Well, Net does have almost 70 pages to read to catch up on. Should be chiming in sometime soon though.

[Riceballtail]

I'm beginning to agree with a possible farside SK. I do think it's possible to have her claiming SK/vig to try and survive to endgame as mafia though.

Mod edit
Official Votecount:
farside22 (3): armlx, Jebus, BlakAdder
Jebus (1): farside22

Not voting (8): Gremwell, Netlava, Zazier, RestFermata, kuribo, Riceballtail, ThAdmiral, Surye

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

[Riceballtail]

VOTE:Jebus

If farside is telling the truth, which I do still believe is a possibility, then I think Jebus would make a good target for a lynch. Certainly hasn't contributed anything outside of a bandwagon vote today. I've been suspicious, but I'm getting more than a gut feeling.

[Riceballtail]

Actually, I dunno how much I like the self-vig idea. If scum have a bus driver, then they would be able to move her vig to where they wanted, essentially giving them a second kill. I know it's a load of WIFOM, but I also can't say that we should ignore the possibility.

[Riceballtail]

It is probably related to it being Thanksgiving weekend in the US.

[Riceballtail]

Welcome SF. Enjoy your deathread.

[Riceballtail]

Unvote; Vote:Farside

Something with all this just doesn't want to let me trust you right now.

[Riceballtail]

So, what've you got for us today, armlx?

Follow the cop, much?

[Riceballtail]

I'm not sure how helpful it would be, I would guess we have two or three scum left, and the rest town. Whoever is doing the stabbing is either a vig or SK, but we don't know for sure. My guess is SK though, based on the flavor.

I'm kinda weary as to how/why you survived last night though, armlx.

[Riceballtail]

Just like how the optimal plan for scum would be to kill a claimed cop who's gotten two of their team outed already?

[Riceballtail]

I thought it through some more, and I think that my previous thought process may have been a bit too off the wall to believe, even now. But at the same time, I don't want to remove the possibility either.

Also, I'm neutral on massclaim for now. I don't like it much in the first place, but I could see it being helpful for now. I also think it might help scum with more PRs being outed too.

Thirdly,

VOTE:Jebus

for relying on the cop to do the work.

[Riceballtail]

I still like Jebus, for relying on the cop to do the scumhunting.

Mod edit
Official Votecount:
Jebus (1): Riceballtail
ThAdmiral (1): armlx

Not voting (8): Jebus, Sensfan, ThAdmiral, Surye, Netlava, Zazier, RestFermata, BlakAdder

With 10 alive it's 6 to lynch.

[Riceballtail]

I don't disagree that it's good use, but... that's all that he's done. Very lurky, majority of posts have been active lurky. Hammered cream, probably to look town by following the cop again. After 77 pages, doesn't seem to have done much of anything. I feel like it's a good vote.

[Riceballtail]

I realize I'm terrible at communication, sorry. I'm working on it though.

[Riceballtail]

But, you haven't done ANYTHING else. At all.

[Riceballtail]

Just post once every couple of days and that should be fine.

I'm fairly sure you'd end up fine with the general activity level at this point anyway.

[Riceballtail]

HoS:BA

Apparently you don't have to read the game enough to know who's scummy and who isn't. If you were going to defend your scumbuddy, then why don't you address the entire case?

[Riceballtail]

Okay, I understand your point now. Until now, I thought the case was just based upon lurking. I'll

unvote

, but I still don't know whether Jebus is scum or just lazy.

You're being fairly lazy too, if you ignored the post where I furthered the case. Or you intentionally pushed it out to strawman. Either way, you're sitting next to Jebus for me now.

[Riceballtail]

With 3 NKs, tonight could very well be LYLO. We have a good amount of time to discuss this, lets be careful.

Very agreed.

Will post more later.

[Riceballtail]

I've been doing some analysis, and it's taking a while. Hopefully I'll be done by the weekend.

[Riceballtail]

Still working at it, and when I post it, I'll try to give a tl;dr. Don't think I'll be able to though.

[Riceballtail]

I left?

[Riceballtail]

Welcome, enjoy your read.

[Riceballtail]

Meh, here's part one of my analysis:

I decided to take a look at the assorted NKs we've had and what they could mean, to try and figure out who we still have running around at night.

NK Listing:

Shot in Head (Mafia):
Moratorium (N1)
Sensfan (N6)

The fact that there are only two kills actually does bother me. They may also be related to the kills with "many bullets" in the house though.

Stabbed (Knives/Daggers SK):
Sir T (N1)
al4xz (N3)
Xtoxm (N4)
Kuribo (N5)
armlx (N6)

N6 that clearly makes this an SK, as no protown player would have killed a cop.

Sworded (Farside/SK):
Empking (N2)
Alabaska J (N3)

Claims the Xtoxm kill N4, but it sounds more like a dagger/knife than a sword, based on the other two kills.

Many Bullets (Vig/SK?):
Shanba (N2)
Muerrto (N3)
Kuribo (N5)
Netlava (N6)

I'm not really sure if this is a vig or SK, but I'm leaning SK. The idea of many bullets seems to be related to the fact that we've got either a shotgun, rifle, or SMG.

Unknown killer: Springlullaby (N4) (Mafia or Many Bullets)


We only know that Daggers and Many Bullets are still alive, and most likely, there's still a mafia or two left. High likelihood of a GF. I would believe that acting in LyLo form would be a good move, because we should assume two mafia and two SKs.

Part two is analyzing vote counts... which I think would be beneficial at this point in the game. It's what's taking so long to color/analyze. :\

[Riceballtail]

VOTE:Surye

I don't think I need you to post the case. I do like that he's been on every lynch though. I'm liking BA as a secondary candidate as well.

[Riceballtail]

No, I'm not following blindly. I'm looking at how you've been on the lynch every day so far. Slicey I can say was a null-tell to be on. K7 I think probably deserved it for a) not claiming and b) always being a thorn in the town's side. Cream was following the cop. Wall-E could have been reasonable, as we had already had two doctors die. I thought he was fake claiming too. Farside was definitely follow the cop. Jebus you followed me, and I feel like it was probably to get a lynch going. I also remember this:

This is what leads me to believe there is a cocky godfather, or a well played bus driver.

While, it made complete sense to what you were responding to (a post from myself wondering why armlx hadn't died, and if that could have been a fakeclaim), it also felt like you knew that this might be a possibility. Meaning you might have some information that we don't. You could have been heavily reliant on the fact that armlx had investigated "you" and found an innocent. And this, of all things, is what really irked me: today, you are repeatedly referring to being careful and waiting on iam's case. But other than that, it sounds like stalling and waiting to hop onto another wagon that builds up. I'm fairly confident about this vote.

[Riceballtail]

Sorry, I keep forgetting to put it in.

I'm a hider.

[Riceballtail]

Well, I'm sadly hoping to lynch my favorite target to hide behind.

N1:Surye
N2:Jebus
N3:Farside
N4:Surye
N5:Surye
N6:Surye

[Riceballtail]

No, I only die if the person I hide behind does.

[Riceballtail]

BA: If the hider dies while hiding behind scum is a mod discretion choice. Otherwise, that part of the role is usually a fairly standard "dies if they do".

Surye: we're waiting on you to claim now.

[Riceballtail]

I hid behind BA last night. Figured that he was the least likely to die, as I thought he was an SK.

[Riceballtail]

Riceball, would you agree or disagree with my voting Tubby?

Honestly, with how scummy he's posting, I'm half-tempted to vote him myself at this point.

I'm not scum, I'm a hider.

His attempts to incriminate both of us almost screams that he's the SK. What do you think?

I highly doubt you are BOTH VT's, so I can't say who I should try to help here.

I'm not in a happy place right now.

[Riceballtail]

Can both of you, ya know, take off your fake claims now? It would make this a lot easier.

[Riceballtail]

Better idea: why are you trying to get a claimed role to change, when you know that there are people lying about what they are? I'm obviously being quiet when I'm being put into a prisoner's dilemma.

VOTE:No Lynch

The rational solution right now.

[Riceballtail]

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... 27s_Gambit

Understand that this is the only reason I voted for it. It gives me, as town, the best chance to win. Otherwise, I'd rather hear arguments between the two of you, as I don't particularly believe either of you to be town.

For now then,

UNVOTE

[Riceballtail]

I will post a defense when tubby unvotes. If you find it not good enough, then you can put it right back on. But I don't want to let BA get away with an easy hammer without you seeing what I have to say.

Also, the amount of time we are taking isn't really wrong, we've got a lot to work through.

[Riceballtail]

Tubby's right. You're not really helping yourself.
Also, dropping your plan the second we question sounds like scum trying to conform with the remaining players to me.

You're the one who said "you have one chance to defend yourself", why would I NOT say what my plan was? As a hider, if one of you is indeed an SK, I can end the game in a draw/...and they lived happily ever after come the end of today if I am guessing right. If one of you was a vig, you should have claimed by now, but I can only be left to think that there are two SKs because of your attitude. I am, by that reasoning, convinced that a NL would be the best play.

However, you are both right in that I definitely did hide behind a fake claim. I am, in fact, a Pro-Town Vig. I used it in order to deflect any possible NK towards myself, as it would only hurt to not be able to NK a scum, which I was fairly sure IAAUN was, bussing his GF to win. I was hoping to catch the SK when they tried to claim this today, and use it to lead the town to victory. However, since one of you isn't going to really claim, then it is clear that this gambit is no longer going to help.

Right now, I am more convinced BA is the SK, because of his high "reluctance" to vote me.

[Riceballtail]

My targets should be fairly easy to tell, as they all, if the kill went through, died that night. What BA is doing now is trying to find a way to get me to slip and call me scum for hitting a/multiple town.

[Riceballtail]

I knew BA was an SK.

And I was NOT NK immune, so I was intending to deflect kills towards me, yes.

I really was hoping to get tubby on the NL idea, because I was hoping BA would have not been NK immune as well.

I still think I did well.

For the record, I was the dagger SK. I claimed the bullet kills because it looked more vig-like.

Tubby: you SHOULD NEVER have voted me if you even thought there was a pro-town vig, and I claimed it without a counter. And yes, the pointing out that NL was the best solution was the big hint, and if you had voted it, I would have known you were the townie left.

[Riceballtail]

I like how BA and myself were often thinking of killing the same target.

[Riceballtail]

Most likely.

Either way, team SK won, right?

[Riceballtail]

i personally like that its far easier that way imo

Agreed, hence why I do it when I mod.