Mafia 87 - New Age Mafia - Game Over!

[al4xz]

Fire up the engines, Al4xz is in town! /confirm!

[al4xz]

Vote: ZaZier

Because he posted first 'sides the mod o.O

[al4xz]

Overreact newbie way and

unvote

, then absurdly accuses Caboose of holding my grandmother hostage.

Vote: Caboose

o.O

[al4xz]

Who could have killed the scum player, out of curiosity? Wracking my brain, a serial killer, an insane/CPR doctor, a vigilante-type or a different faction of scum come to mind.

I say the likely one would be a serial killer. A vigilante (unless extremely stupid) wouldn't shoot on N0 because it's too likely to hit a TOwn, but a SK would have no qualms against doing this.

[al4xz]

*cowers*
Two man bandwagon! Someone, call 911!

Caboose, I think TAX is reffering to Scherz, who is actually a he and not a she. So,

Gerrendus wrote:
Maybe

Scherz

knew that and that's why

Scherz

doing it?

In any acse, what's "rolefishing" and how is it bad for the town and + for the scum?

[al4xz]

Vote Count #1 of Day 1

Vi (1) -- Juls
al4xz (3) -- Caboose, iamausername, ribwich
Scheherazade (1) -- strife220
ribwich (1) -- Jazzmyn
TAX (1) -- DoomCow
DoomCow (1) -- TAX

Not Voting (8) -- Vi, Scheherazade, Der Hammer, al4xz, Percy, BobHiggs, Gerrendus, ZazieR

With 16 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch!

Quick note - I'm voting for Caboose.

Fixed. Thanks. - Incog-Co-Mod.

[al4xz]

good start with the goon being killed.

have I missed something or is their a reason why insane doctor has even been mentioned yet

Vote:Percy

Read the damned thread, goddamnit.

[al4xz]

Vote: Juls

[al4xz]

Must I always state my reasoning behind a vote?

[al4xz]

Damnit, looks like it didn't work...

Well, in any case, I posted a vote on Juls without any reasoning somewhere up in that clump. I was looking to get a reaction of her, but from the looks of it none of the town even noticed. So,

Unvote

.

Alright, Scheh's case now. Percy has done a truly excellant PBPA, so a medal for Percy (xD). Now, here are the possibilities:
1. Scheh is a skilled Mafia player who did a good job hiding his true intentions behind the mask of a Townie. Scum.
2. Inexperienced player to Mafia. Town/Scum. - Out of the question, he's claimed experience. And if he denies that, he's a liar. LAL! Cept for doc liars.
3. Slip-up made by a skilled mafia player, but was read differently from what he ment to convey. Town.

Personnally, everything dictates that Scheh is #1. Now, I'm uneasy to place my vote so early and join a bandwagon that's heating up so fast only on the fourth page. YOu can call it fencesitting if you want, but for now, a heavy

FoS

on Scheh.

[al4xz]

Well, in any case, I posted a vote on Juls without any reasoning somewhere up in that clump. I was looking to get a reaction of her, but from the looks of it none of the town even noticed. So, Unvote.

There were players who noticed it and gave some comments about it. But what kind of reaction were you expecting?

I was looking for a over-the-rooftops explosion from Juls, or something along those lines. Something involving attention shifting from Juls. Seeing as I didn't get any reaction (or very little), I decided to call off my little bluff.
I may or may not comment on what the others wrote, mainly because I'm in deep shit right now (I'm in a spot of trouble). Expect something Thursday or Friday.

[al4xz]

@Vi: No, I'm not voting for anyone right now. I was partly waiting for my wagon to blow over before voting so that I would be mostly above suspicion of OMGUS voting.

That being said, I find al4xz a little suspicious. His vote for Juls and evasion are odd. I understand that he wouldn't want to say "I vote Juls to put pressure on her" when he cast the vote. But why put pressure on Juls, of all people? He must have had a reason for choosing her. So I think he was being unnecessarily evasive. Later, when he gives his explanation, I think the reaction he says he expects from her is weird.

I'd like to see a little more from him.

ribwich is also sort of on my radar for changing his vote and mind so often. Obviously, I thought he had less than valid reasons to vote for me, but I think his explanation of his vote for Juls doesn't quite justify a vote. And the vote for al4xz may have been a joke, but was there any call for it? I mean, al4xz already had votes and therefore pressure on him. ribwich's comment looks like "lol, I'm bandwagoning." In six pages he's voted for four different people.

This is going to look bad on me.

Right, here's what I've got to say: to your second paragraph, I chose to pressure Juls because the votes would have been coming in fast. However, you guys ruined it by putting a lot of posts afterwards, showing that the wagon on her had died that. Therefore, any pressure I could have given was tossed out the window.

Third single-senteance paragraph: Well, I'm not bothering myself with the politics of you and Percy's bullshit. What I do find interesting is this (this will be seen as OMGUS, btw.)
First, you play reasonablely. You call yourself experienced, but in the beginning you made the "rolefishing" post. Supposedly, according to you, it was to warn everyone of a possible CPR/insane doc. However, lemme ask you - when everyone said it was rolefishing, why didn't you admit to your mistake? You instead held your ground with bullshit, spit, and prayers while everyone else threw the same at you. I would have understood if you had admitted your mistake - but then yo ugo and make a huge case involving an Oxford dictionary for everyone to read! Personnally, I'd call what you and Percy are doing as either distancing combined with a red herring. I think about less than a quarter of the Mafia gamers here actually READ the damned thing. Why do you feel it neccessary to respond to every single point? I would have summarised the case myself, then proceeded to explain in point detail, not in a big post. Apoligies for my big paragraph.

Vote: Scherz

FoS: Percy

Pressure on me? Don't kid yourself, the bulk of them were random votes.

[al4xz]

-----

al4xz, aside from S and P, is there anyone you find scummy?

-----

Gut instinct tells me Der is acting scummy, but I can't really locate any significant source of evidence. Besides Der, Percy, and Schez, I'm not really finding anyone especially suspicious.

[al4xz]

al4xz, I just want to make sure I understand your reasoning. Are you suspicious of Percy because you believe the distancing between him and Schez is artificial? If yes, does this mean you would no longer be suspicious of Percy if Schez was confirmed to be town?

Yes and no. It depends on what other knowledge I have. If I know the possibility of a Mafia GF exists, I will not rule that out, despite the unlikelyhood of the situation. If I know there is possibly a GF, and Schez is cleared by a confirmed Cop, then I will trust Percy to a higher extent than that of right now.

[al4xz]

Actually, that was a bad choice of words on my part. I meant if Schez were lynched and then the mod told us he was town.

Then I would not be suspicious of Percy for that incident.

[al4xz]

al4xz, I just want to make sure I understand your reasoning. Are you suspicious of Percy because you believe the distancing between him and Schez is artificial? If yes, does this mean you would no longer be suspicious of Percy if Schez was confirmed to be town?

Yes and no. It depends on what other knowledge I have. If I know the possibility of a Mafia GF exists, I will not rule that out, despite the unlikelyhood of the situation. If I know there is possibly a GF, and Schez is cleared by a confirmed Cop, then I will trust Percy to a higher extent than that of right now.

Using the G-word at this point in the game makes me much more suspicious of al4xz

I'm not sure how that's really logical...

[al4xz]

al4xz, I just want to make sure I understand your reasoning. Are you suspicious of Percy because you believe the distancing between him and Schez is artificial? If yes, does this mean you would no longer be suspicious of Percy if Schez was confirmed to be town?

Yes and no. It depends on what other knowledge I have. If I know the possibility of a Mafia GF exists, I will not rule that out, despite the unlikelyhood of the situation. If I know there is possibly a GF, and Schez is cleared by a confirmed Cop, then I will trust Percy to a higher extent than that of right now.

Using the G-word at this point in the game makes me much more suspicious of al4xz

I'm not sure how that's really logical...

Your stance? No, it's not logical.
I already told Scheherazade not to make wild guesses about the setup, and here you are creating your own conspiracy theory

right down to calling out Scheherazade as the zetta Godfather

.
I think it should be pretty obvious that it is *possible* for there to be a Godfather in the setup if there are less-standard roles like Weak Doctor. Is there actually a Godfather? Iunno; how do you propose we find out?

So wrong on a couple of different levels.

Unvote: TAX
Vote: al4xz

(L-7)

Ah, now I see what you mean. But how was that really detrimental to the town if the only role I really mentioned was the Mafia GF?

[al4xz]

I think you basically made the case for me, so you can have some popcorn. *hands the bag over*

[al4xz]

@al4xz: You misunderstand. You called out S as the Godfather, which is basically impossible to prove (without a lynch on either a Godfather or Scheherazade) and hideously biased.

No, I called S out as a possible Godfather

in that situation

. In no way does it reflect this game so far unless we reach a point akin to that one. And even if one Godfather was lynched, there can always be two - one for each team...why the fuck am I saying this? YOu'll call it out as rolefishing again, even though it's only Mafia-related roles and a cop, which is a normal role anyhow.

[al4xz]

...Let's try this again from the beginning, for clarity's sake. Could you fully answer the question, but in different words?

Are you suspicious of Percy because you believe the distancing between him and Schez is artificial? If yes, does this mean you would no longer be suspicious of Percy if Schez was confirmed to be town?

I would be less suspicious of Percy if Schez was confirmed Town. Or, at least no longer suspicious of Percy

for that reasoning

.

There. Rolefishing is irritating. I can't respond without rolefishing a second time. =.=

[al4xz]

YOu'll call it out as rolefishing again, even though it's only Mafia-related roles and a cop, which is a normal role anyhow.

Are you suggesting that a cop being a more commonly appearing role than an insane doctor makes it more OK for you to fish for one?

Not really. From my point of view now, I can't even tell what I was trying to express or suggest by stating the final words in the senteance. "...which is a normal role anyhow." Hmm. I think I just added that in as a little tidbit of some sort.

[al4xz]

Vi: Agreed. And I can understand what you are doing. So, I guess all I can do is sit here and twiddle my thumbs and go, "OMGHDUNLYNCHMEIAMTOWN!" when someone tries to vote for me. =.=

Zazier, got anything more to add on that? Seeing as you said you would. *glares*

[al4xz]

Actually, al4xz, can you help me out? I think you dodged a question. Why'd you choose Juls to pressure in the first place?

Oh, and why take that tone with me before? Wasn't called for in the least.

Ah, I already explained this. No matter.
Alright, here's the situation in a nutshell (or in a forum, however you wish to see it). Juls posts something kinda scummy. One or two people jump on the wagon in quick succession. I decide to join in but with a no reasoning vote so that I would appear scummy. In this way, if Juls was a scum, she might attempted to direct attention to me since I voted w/o reasoning behind it in that post. But then no, YOU had to go and ruin it by posting a lot of crap about grammar and all sorts of other things, disrupting the wagon and rendering any of the pressure I threw on Juls out the window. =.=

Oh, and apoligies if I acted rude. I have a tendency to call anything crap, shit, or anything else you care to mention a curse word.

[al4xz]

It seems I must slap myself for sucking at explaining things...

Slayer's Gambit, one of my favorite devices. (Unfortunately, nobody seems to notice when I vote people who aren't playing...)

Unlike Juls, I think the answers sync well enough, but I take issue with this--

I decide to join in but with a no reasoning vote so that I would appear scummy. In this way, if Juls was a scum, she might attempted to direct attention to me since I voted w/o reasoning behind it in that post.

So it's scummy to vote for people who place scummy votes on you? IMO OMGUS is about as laughable as FoS as a catch-all.

What would a pro-Town reaction have been in your opinion, considering you were acting anti-Town?

I'll start with the first paragraph. No, that's not what I'm tyring to convey. I'm trying to get some kind of reaction so I can get a read out of it. Does it matter how I word it? Never mind, don't answer that, that's a dumass question. =.=

Actually, Vi, I was just looking for a general reaction to get a read.

Juls, I was trying to act like a scummy guy so you would make a bad reaction and try to push the shit to me. Pretending to act like scum was all a part of that, if you didn't get it when I first posted.

[al4xz]

Scheh, I've answered your question; now I have one for you as well. Can I ask why you didn't admit your mistake when people accused you of rolefishing?

[al4xz]

Ah, I already explained this. No matter.
Alright, here's the situation in a nutshell (or in a forum, however you wish to see it). Juls posts something kinda scummy. One or two people jump on the wagon in quick succession. I decide to join in but with a no reasoning vote so that I would appear scummy. In this way, if Juls was a scum, she might attempted to direct attention to me since I voted w/o reasoning behind it in that post.

I've seen people do these types of things all the time as townies, but I've never understood why. The biggest problem with it is how are you supposed to know if Juls is scum trying to divert a bandwagon or town that honestly thought you were acting scummy?

As I already said, I was looking for a general reaction. I can't really classify anything for you. Apoligies.

Sceh Wrote:
@al4xz: Of course you can. The point of the post wasn't to role-fish, so there's no way I'm going to lie and say that it was. Looking at it, I still don't see how it could be read as role-fishing, so I'm not going to say that it is. In its effect, it wasn't role-fishing, because it didn't get anyone to reveal anything, so I'm not going to say it was a mistake on that account. If in its goal, execution and effect it isn't role-fishing, I'm not going to say "oh, my post was role-fishing."

If someone disagrees with me on any of those counts, then they can go ahead and accuse me of role-fishing. But it's not and I'm not going to say that it is.

My mistake has been in how I've responded. As I said, I thought the initial accusation was so off base that I made a joke about it to strife220. Then, I only explained my motives piecemeal. Of course I would have been more up front if I thought someone seriously considered my actions scummy. But that's probably where a decent accuser would have asked questions to gather evidence.

So the biggest mistake I think I've made so far is giving people an excuse to vote for me without having to look for scum, not role-fishing. Even now, people who suspect me have said that they don't consider my opening post suspicious. That's because it wasn't role-fishing and I'm not going to call it that.

Alright, thank you. That clears it up. It was a matter of either pride or your actual belief, and I won't argue with you on that.

[al4xz]

As I already said, I was looking for a general reaction. I can't really classify anything for you. Apoligies.

And I understand that. The way you did it didn't seem that scummy, so if Juls did attack you heavily for it it would have made her look suspicious. I mainly wanted to just express why I don't like it incase anybody else thinks of doing something similar. There's one thing I was curious about though. Were you already suspicious of Juls at the time, or did you just see an opportunity to try that out and wanted to see what would happen?

The latter. Or so I believe at this moment. Allow me to do a brief reread of why people were even pressuring her to begin with.
Yes, I was correct. I merely wished to see her reaction. What I saw from her was not very scummy, in my opinion.

[al4xz]

Why the *glare*?

I don't see the case against al4xz. I don't like his action of his vote against Juls, but I don't find him scummy due to that.
My opinion about DH is already shown by my vote.
Which leaves Scheza. I first didn't see anything harmful with his first posts. I just saw a player wondering who could have done the killing. But he now focuses on defense of his actions. I want to see something useful from him regarding finding scum. From that, I hopefully can see what to think of him.

I glare because I enjoy posting that. =D

[al4xz]

Not much to discuss, looking at the activity levels. We've hit a dead end, in a sense.

Doomcow, what is your case against Scheh? iamausername, if you have finished rereading, can you tell us your conclusions?

A reminder to everyone - Day 1 is going to end Nov. 8th, so do watch were you place your vote. I'd much rather No Lynch than Quick-And-Thoughtless lynch.

[al4xz]

Thanks for the reminder on that.

Still waiting to hear from Der Hammer....

Yeah, we hear only bits from him, but everything he says seems to be scummy.

[al4xz]

A reminder to everyone - Day 1 is going to end Nov. 8th, so do watch were you place your vote. I'd much rather No Lynch than Quick-And-Thoughtless lynch.

I forgot this game had deadlines!!! I will do a re-read tomorrow morning and add something if it strikes me. I have been reading but really don't have much to add. At risk of sounding like a broken record, I really don't see much more from Sche to make me move my vote.

After a Mafia game I played on a different forum ended in disastor for the town (this was only a little while ago, I was town) because we accidently lynched a Cop because of deadline, I've gone to go and check the deadline to make sure I'm not going to help the scum by lynching through deadline.

Scheh isn't making me more suspicious, but he isn't making me less suspicious either. With that in mind, I say that he's played so far mostly on honour, insults, and adrenaline. So, I guess I'll end it off with this:

Unvote

.

[al4xz]

Alright, so now I see why you guys wish to lynch someone no matter what. We need the information, so at least SOMEONE has to die. Correct?

[al4xz]

Don't give bullshit. Even though this is internet, I can obviously discern the disgust in Juls tone of voice of said quote. If you can't, I don't trust a single action you make any more, unless it's something you can't screw up.

Vote: Derhammer

[al4xz]

EBWOP or whatever the hell the abrievation is, I can never remember it:

Unvote, Vote Derhammer

[al4xz]

Personally speaking, this will provide us more information, and we don't need a village idiot dragging us down later on in the game (wasting a lynch now to gain some info is alright, wasting a lynch later can be disastorous). Hey, I just realzied something:

Village idiot: Abbreviation: Vi! o.O

[al4xz]

Village idiot: Abbreviation: Vi! o.O

Suffice to say I've already tried to daykill one person for that (elsewhere; don't want to link because it's an ongoing game). Would you like to be next? ^.^

*cowers at the printer*

[al4xz]

Alright, back to serious gaming. I guess it's pretty much decided that we will lynch either DerHammer or Scheh, right? So I guess we might as well do a reread, then decide between the two, unless some magical fairy pops up and saves their ass.

From my point of view, Scheh is coming up to be a defensive lurker. He posts only when attacked and doesn't really express his views or attempt to scumhunt, OR even attack someone. This makes me think he's either
A) scared Mafia
B) asshole townie
C) a survivor
Now that I have expressed this view, I actually think... we should lynch him.

Unvote, Vote: Scheh

Derhammer comes across to me as a village idiot, so we can either A) lynch him now for information, or B) talk shit later on in the game going, "Oh! But what if DH is scum?" Personally, I'd rather kill him now but a Scheh lynch is too compelling.

[al4xz]

al4xz: Voted for Juls, in an attempt to pull off a rather strange move. Also he said this:

al4xz 100 wrote:
everything dictates that Scheh is ... a skilled Mafia player who did a good job hiding his true intentions behind the mask of a Townie. Scum."

...then FoSed him, voted for him later, and now he's unvoted. I'm suspicious of him due to this inconsistency and the aforementioned strange move. I will ask the question:

@al4xz: If you were so convinced early on of Scheherazade's guilt, why did you Unvote? What changed your mind from such a strong position to such an uncertain one?

Allow me to explain. First, Scheh goes off and creates the big argument with you, wasting a lot of the town's time. When I asked him why he didn't just say, "oh, sorry, you guys were right, it was rolefishing", he said instead that he didn't say that because he refused to lie. He believed that it wasn't rolefishing and that therefore, saying said excuse would be a lie. I believed that what he said there was the truth, and if he's actually a Townie, I'm impressed that he stood by that choice despite the trouble it has caused him.

As for the "odd" move, it's known as the Slayer's Gambit. Check it up on the Wiki.

Hmm...yes, I agree with you about Derhammer, Percy. I'd rather have Scheh (who may or may not be useful) than Derhammer, the village idiot. Scheh at least strikes me as someone who tries to help. Derhammer jsut keeps joking around, so we can't trust him to sit still for a minute, let alone help us.

Vote: Der Hammer

[al4xz]

Are you serious? Shit! Town, sorry! I never realized how close we were! Fuck!

...Ugh! SHIT!

[al4xz]

Actually, never mind, I had already voted for DH earlier and Percy had confused me into thinking I was voting for Scheh. =.= However, DH is still hammered; Gerrendus placed the final.

[al4xz]

If I remember my MD threads correctly, they're like Millers for Trackers; if they get tracked, they'll be seen to target whoever dies that night.

Never seen them used in a game before, but maybe that's what makes it "New Age", eh?

Gonna

Vote: al4xz

because I

really

don't like his "Oh God, I'm so sorry for hammering!" post, it definitely strikes me as coming from someone who already knew the Der Hammer lynch was a bad one.

To me, if you don't give the guy-who-everyone-wants-to-lynch (DH) a final chance to defend himself/herself, then you deny the town possible information, more or less depending on what role they were. If they were a Townie, normal final attempt to defend themselves, post their suspiscions, etc. Scum, more or less not too much information if you lynch them before they have a chance to speak, unless there are two scum groups. Cop, lots of information - results, suspiscions, a "investigation failed" PM (meaning there is a roleblocker), etc.
However, by lynching DH before the Town gave him a chance to speak, you are denying the Town alot of information.

al4xz - you are on the hot seat to try and clarify how you did not realize you had a vote on Der Hammer... and why you voted for him when you clearly seemed to not want to?

I thought I still had my vote on Scheh. I voted him because I thought it would put him in L-1, L-2, etc. not because I wanted to lynch him straight off the bat. Not letting someone give their final words before they get lynched is anti-town, reckless play, etc.

[al4xz]

I want to know how in 24 HOURS he could forget that he already voted for Der Hammer... especially when an updated vote count was posted between both his voting posts.

Tells me someone is: (a) not paying attention, or (b) reaching for excuses.

- Tom Mason

Have it your way. Think what you want. Not everyone can remember everything. Have you ever heard the expression, "people don't notice what's right underneath their noses?"

If you knew he was this close to lynch, why didn't you check the votecount before voting to make sure you weren't lynching him?

I knew he was approaching lynch; I wasn't expecting him to be at L-1. Yes,i t was reckless play, and I should have checked the votecount.

[al4xz]

al4xz, yesterday you said that if Scheherazade was confirmed Town, you would not be suspicious of Percy. Does it work the other way around, since Percy is gone?

No. Scheh has been acting like a blasted fool on drugs whether Percy is here or not.

I'm actually very interested in hearing your opinion on Scheherazade right now, considering your last three votes yesterday.

I'm waiting on a vote, accusations, etc. from him, but he's not looking too scummy as of right now.

A quick opinion on Mafia theory, though--I wouldn't hold the pre-claim hammer against you personally. Claims are meant to be last-ditch defenses, not obligatory rights. Considering Der Hammer was in quite a bit of trouble before he was placed at exactly L-1, didn't seem interested in helping the Town, and had already claimed Vanilla; I don't think it's an Unforgivable Sin that the claim didn't happen. Meanwhile, if Der Hammer claimed a non-VT role, would you believe him? Would it have been enough to stop your vote?

True.

The only real loss IMO would have been from hitting a Cop before displaying N0 results, and once again I'd expect he'd have done that noticeably sooner under the circumstances. As far as Der Hammer's opinions went, I'll note that just because someone is confirmed Town doesn't mean they're right; to demonstrate the point I'll point to how Der Hammer suspected strife.

al4xz wrote:
To me, if you don't give the guy-who-everyone-wants-to-lynch (DH) a final chance to defend himself/herself, then you deny the town possible information, more or less depending on what role they were. If they were a Townie, normal final attempt to defend themselves, post their suspiscions, etc. Scum, more or less not too much information if you lynch them before they have a chance to speak, unless there are two scum groups. Cop, lots of information - results, suspiscions, a "investigation failed" PM (meaning there is a roleblocker), etc.
However, by lynching DH before the Town gave him a chance to speak, you are denying the Town alot of information.

Does this mean you weren't aware that Der Hammer had already claimed vanilla townie when you cast your vote?

I was aware of this, but I didn't take it too seriously as it had been claimed early. If I was a doctor, then I would claim VT at first, and then if I got L-1ed then I'd claim Doctor.

Gerrendus, Jazzmyn, DoomCow, Caboose. You were all voting Scheherazade for a significant period of D1; what's changed since then to keep you from voting him now?

I'd like an answer to that question as well, though I suspect I know the answer.

It was not a matter of remembering, it was a matter of taking five seconds to check the voting. You made two mistakes in that process... (1) You thought you had not already voted for Der Hammer and (2) you thought that you helped to hammer Der Hammer.

I do not like your reaction because it makes it seem like you took nothing into consideration until AFTER the fact. You were more than happy to make the move and then think about what you did. When, if you are scum, you do not need to think of your vote.

And to those who question the witch-hunt of Scheherazade, I do not disagree that his play has been erratic. But something about this situation does not sit well with me at the moment.

That's bullshit. The scum always think about their vote before they make it so that they can't be pushed around about it. The town

should

always think about their vote before they make it, but sometimes they don't think too closely enough.[/quote]

[al4xz]

To me, if you don't give the guy-who-everyone-wants-to-lynch (DH) a final chance to defend himself/herself, then you deny the town possible information, more or less depending on what role they were.

I agree with this.

I was aware of this, but I didn't take it too seriously as it had been claimed early. If I was a doctor, then I would claim VT at first, and then if I got L-1ed then I'd claim Doctor.

DON'T! I can't give the example, but this happened once in a game. The player who did this was lynched for lying.

I'd debate with you on this, but it wouldn't be very helpful for the town. Remind me when I need a topic in the Mafia Discussion forum.

Also

Vote al4xz

Here are some quotes from him at the end of day 1 and day 2:

Don't give bullshit. Even though this is internet, I can obviously discern the disgust in Juls tone of voice of said quote. If you can't, I don't trust a single action you make any more, unless it's something you can't screw up.

Vote: Derhammer

This is the third time he talked about DH. The first time is when DH asked why the insane doc is mentioned. The second time is when Ribwich says he's still waiting to hear from DH. This is al4xz responce:

Yeah, we hear only bits from him, but everything he says seems to be scummy.

The third time he votes, with in my opinion a bad reason.

Personally speaking, this will provide us more information, and we don't need a village idiot dragging us down later on in the game (wasting a lynch now to gain some info is alright, wasting a lynch later can be disastorous). Hey, I just realzied something:

Village idiot: Abbreviation: Vi! o.O

You know what I just realized, there's no 'if' in that quote. You refer to DH as village idiot, without an 'if', and you're talking about wasting a lynch, without an 'if'. I have some problems with this.

To me, a Village Idiot is basically anyone who plays like an utter fool, whether they are town or not. And I'm unsure how not having a 'if' on the wasting lynch part is bad.

I guess it's pretty much decided that we will lynch either DerHammer or Scheh, right? So I guess we might as well do a reread, then decide between the two, unless some magical fairy pops up and saves their ass.

Gut feeling is telling me to remind this one.

Now that I have expressed this view, I actually think... we should lynch him. Unvote, Vote: Scheh

Allow me to explain. First, Scheh goes off and creates the big argument with you, wasting a lot of the town's time. When I asked him why he didn't just say, "oh, sorry, you guys were right, it was rolefishing", he said instead that he didn't say that because he refused to lie. He believed that it wasn't rolefishing and that therefore, saying said excuse would be a lie. I believed that what he said there was the truth, and if he's actually a Townie, I'm impressed that he stood by that choice despite the trouble it has caused him.

Hmm...yes, I agree with you about Derhammer, Percy. I'd rather have Scheh (who may or may not be useful) than Derhammer, the village idiot. Scheh at least strikes me as someone who tries to help. Derhammer just keeps joking around, so we can't trust him to sit still for a minute, let alone help us.

Vote: Der Hammer

I don't like the sudden switch in your vote. I don't like the reason to switch. You're just agreeing with Percy (why and about what exactly?) and you're just saying that DH is gonna be a liability to the town. I'm having some problems with that.

I agree with Percy on his view on who we should lynch. The below quote is Percy's post. If 'liability" is someone who could be Mafia, but we can't read him at all, is unhelpful, distracting, and confusing, then yes, DH is a liability. The main reason why I wanted to lynch DH is because the possibility exists that DH is Mafia, and we can't judge him on regular standards, nor can we get a read on his actions to figure out whether he is Mafia or not.

Der Hammer: Erratic and confusing strategies that are bad for the town. He even described the attempts to put pressure on him as 'clear scumtells'. Doesn't read sarcasm in others' posts, but has used the 'I was only kidding' defense himself. Relevant game quotes:

"That's the sort of reaction I was probing for" never actually had meaning at all

I reacted badly to your initial misjudging of my statement and acted childishly. It end of esuclated from there really, and its interesting to see who has jumped on my bandwagon..

He's OMGUS'd, claimed when he was nowhere near being lynched, and told us that we should look elsewhere rather than try to find something out of his posts.

Now he's asking us to lynch Scheherazade and give him a free pass, just because he says he's a townie (!).

Whilst Scheherazade has been extremely unhelpful, I think Der Hammer is a greater liability and has made more mistakes, and most importantly, is more difficult to read and keep tabs on: he's tried to make some of his posts 'real posts' and others 'not count' due to "hidden" humour or sarcasm.

It's very, very close, but I think it's marginally more likely that Scheherazade is just an unhelpful townie than Der Hammer. I'm therefore going to

Unvote

Vote: Der Hammer

Entire body of susipicion: Scheherazade

Are you serious? Shit! Town, sorry! I never realized how close we were! Fuck!

Did you, or did you not read every post?

I read every post, maybe not every detail all the time, but I do try.

Actually, never mind, I had already voted for DH earlier and Percy had confused me into thinking I was voting for Scheh. =.= However, DH is still hammered; Gerrendus placed the final.

You voted DH, you unvoted and you had put DH at L-1. So I don't see what you're saying in this post.

If my memory serves me right, I voted DH, then a page or two later I voted him again. That's what I mean by, "actually, never mind." What I was trying to say in that post was that "whew, I didn't just do something terrible to the town."

I thought I still had my vote on Scheh. I voted him because I thought it would put him in L-1, L-2, etc. not because I wanted to lynch him straight off the bat. Not letting someone give their final words before they get lynched is anti-town, reckless play, etc.

So why aren't you voting Gerrendus?

Perhaps I don't find him as suspicious.

I want to know how in 24 HOURS he could forget that he already voted for Der Hammer... especially when an updated vote count was posted between both his voting posts.

Tells me someone is: (a) not paying attention, or (b) reaching for excuses.

- Tom Mason

Have it your way. Think what you want. Not everyone can remember everything. Have you ever heard the expression, "people don't notice what's right underneath their noses?"

I'm having a problem that you're dodging the question.

If you havn't noticed, there is no specific question there. Tom wonders how the hell I could have forgotten, puts out the point that I had switched my vote only a day ago and that an updated vote count was posted between the 24hr span. I then proceeded to tell him, "I forgot. Everyone forgets sometime," indirectly, in my post.

That's bullshit. The scum always think about their vote before they make it so that they can't be pushed around about it. The town should always think about their vote before they make it, but sometimes they don't think too closely enough

I'm having a problem with this defend attempt.

Can I ask what you mean by having a problem? If I'm not mistaken, I tihnk you mean there's something remotely scummy about it, but you can't point it out directly like yo ucan point out oranges. Am I correct?

[/i]

[al4xz]

Again, apoligies, disappearing just when people asked me questions. I had a lot of schoolwork to complete, and on top of that I'm running a large scale forum game on another forum. In any case, all the projects are gone (I'm still waking up and thinking, 'what do I have to do today...'), so I'll be active from here on out. I hope.

I'd debate with you on this, but it wouldn't be very helpful for the town. Remind me when I need a topic in the Mafia Discussion forum.

We'll do that when both of the games are over.

I read every post, maybe not every detail all the time, but I do try.

As you could guess, there's a reason why I asked this question.

Huh?

Both Derhammer and Sche are at L-3 from my countl

This was with your first vote

Vote: Der Hammer (L-2)

In between your posts came also a VC.

Then Percy votes, you again and last but not least Gerrendus.
Of those, I really don't like your reaction after the lynch. Especially as you didn't look at the VC, possibly didn't notice Juls and Vi counting and following Percy.

I can understand that. It looks a hell lot like distancing, even when I read it.

If my memory serves me right, I voted DH, then a page or two later I voted him again. That's what I mean by, "actually, never mind." What I was trying to say in that post was that "whew, I didn't just do something terrible to the town."

It was only one page, but it was the same day in which you unvoted and revoted.
I still don't see why you said 'actually never mind'. What's the point of saying 'I had already voted for DH earlier'? Should this make any difference?

It saves me from guilt that I had killed him without giving him a trial.

Also I just noticed this:

Gerrendus placed the final.

It gives me the impression that you want all the attention at Gerrendus.

Perhaps I don't find him as suspicious.

Didn't you say that not giving someone their final words before their lynch is anti-town?

Yes, I did, but I believe that he wasn't lying when he said that he had forgotten.

If you havn't noticed, there is no specific question there. Tom wonders how the hell I could have forgotten, puts out the point that I had switched my vote only a day ago and that an updated vote count was posted between the 24hr span. I then proceeded to tell him, "I forgot. Everyone forgets sometime," indirectly, in my post.

TM wanted to know how you could forget it. In that quote he gave even two options for you to pick. Not to forget that you could also go for the comical 3rd option. However, you just state that you can't remember everything. But as shown in this post, there have been 3 posts in which players/the mod were warning for the amount of votes. And all 3 of them were one day before your second vote! You even followed a player, so you should have known that there was one vote more. If you had read all of them, it would seem strange that you just forgot them, while a player was almost lynched.
Forgetting is basically not paying attention. ...Actually, forgetting is not paying attention. Even though I hate those words against me, I admit that that's the truth.
It IS strange. I was still thinking I was voting for Scheh for some reason. I dunno.
Wait, now I remember, I believe I was about to go off for class when I voted for DH. I think that was it...or was that something else?

Can I ask what you mean by having a problem? If I'm not mistaken, I tihnk you mean there's something remotely scummy about it, but you can't point it out directly like yo ucan point out oranges. Am I correct?

Nope, you're not correct. For all those wondering, we're talking about al4xz's response to this:

It was not a matter of remembering, it was a matter of taking five seconds to check the voting. You made two mistakes in that process... (1) You thought you had not already voted for Der Hammer and (2) you thought that you helped to hammer Der Hammer.

I do not like your reaction because it makes it seem like you took nothing into consideration until AFTER the fact. You were more than happy to make the move and then think about what you did. When, if you are scum, you do not need to think of your vote.

And to those who question the witch-hunt of Scheherazade, I do not disagree that his play has been erratic. But something about this situation does not sit well with me at the moment.

Which was:

That's bullshit. The scum always think about their vote before they make it so that they can't be pushed around about it. The town should always think about their vote before they make it, but sometimes they don't think too closely enough

I get the impression that you're saying you can't be scum as you didn't think about your vote, while scum do. If so, I'm having problems with it. If not, what did you mean with it?

I was merely making stating my opinion on what he said. Albeit in a vulgar way.

I think ZazieR echoes a little of what I have said. I have nothing new to really add right now. If al4xz would have had the voting issue happen over a span of time substantially longer than 24 hours, I would buy the whole "I forgot" spiel.

And Gerrendus, I do not think you are helping yourself either in this situation. You and al4xz are essentially fighting the same battle. My vote only goes to him because having already voted, I would expect him to be more aware of the entire situation than someone just placing a vote. This is not to say I think you both should have been paying attention.

This, except for the bit about me

Rib, where did al4xz said the part you quoted in post 350?

I might not have been posting a lot, but I was following closely enough to move my vote if I felt there was a need. Since I didn't move my vote, clearly I didn't have a problem with the wagon.

So you were lurking...?

Oh, most definitely.

...uh... How's it going? The lurking, I mean. ^^;

(How am I supposed to respond to that!?)

*chuckles*

-----

"O conspiracy!
Sham'st thou to show thy dangerous brow by night,
When evils are most free?"

:janetweiss:

The heck? o.O

-----

DoomCow: Waiting, etc.

-----

The scum always think about their vote before they make it so that they can't be pushed around about it. The town

should

always think about their vote before they make it, but sometimes they don't think too closely enough.

I'm not sure I like what you're doing here, between the dealing in generalities to the use of the mistake to paint yourself Town.
(Actually, I'm quite sure I don't like what you're doing there.)

Understandable, since it looks like a clear attempt to say that "oh, I'm not scum because scum..." I would be suspicious of YOU if you didn't find that scummy.

I'd like an answer to that question

[why nobody started by voting for Scheherazade]

as well, though I suspect I know the answer.

?

[post-reread]

The flip-unflip-reflip back and forth at the end of yesterday really bites IMO, especially considering Posts 228 and 271 seem to contradict. I'm still not pleased with the argument temporarily immortalized in ribwich's sig. The Slayer's Gambit and the ensuing griping made up a sizeable part of your activity yesterday, though to all appearances it wouldn't have had any effect on your opinions IYO. And unless I'm not seeing something (it's getting late), you haven't mentioned any suspicions for today either... Where's the scumhunting?

So, I guess all I can do is sit here and twiddle my thumbs and go, "OMGHDUNLYNCHMEIAMTOWN!" when someone tries to vote for me. =.=

I have no idea what this quote means ;>.>
It's merely me spazzing because I have to sit around with a vote on me. Actually, it's just a way to say, "oh well, I accept the fact that you are voting for me because you have no one else to vote for and presssure."

I think my choice of action is clear, at least for now.

Vote: al4xz

(L-3)

'Should look at Jazzmyn vs. Scheherazade next.

Okay, the discussion between Scheza and Jazz needs my attention as well, but I want to hear Jazz first about Scheza's last post.

Back to al4xz. Thanks to Rib, I have found the quote.

To me, a Village Idiot is basically anyone who plays like an utter fool, whether they are town or not. And I'm unsure how not having a 'if' on the wasting lynch part is bad.

This response came from this:

Personally speaking, this will provide us more information, and we don't need a village idiot dragging us down later on in the game (

wasting a lynch

now to gain some info is alright,

wasting a lynch

later can be disastorous). Hey, I just realzied something:

Village idiot: Abbreviation: Vi! o.O

You know what I just realized, there's no 'if' in that quote. You refer to DH as village idiot, without an 'if', and you're talking about wasting a lynch, without an 'if'. I have some problems with this.

You said 'wasting a lynch' aka you knew that DH wouldn't turn up to be scum. That's my problem with it. That ,with your reason to vote DH the second time, is wrong.

I can't tell you how, but I believe in some way in the english language that CAN mean 'if we waste a lynch now for information it's alright, ..." However, I suggest we take a quick vote on tihs right now. Perhaps your english grammar is better than mine. Take a vote everyone - who thinks this can mean both or can it only mean that I already knew the DH hammer was a waste?[/i]

[al4xz]

Understandable, since it looks like a clear attempt to say that "oh, I'm not scum because scum..." I would be suspicious of YOU if you didn't find that scummy.

Wait...so why did you say it?

Because I'm proving my point to the other guy, that the scum think more about where they place their vote than the town. Usually that's the case.

Damnit, it's happening again. I get so bored of reading arguments that Scheh and his opponent make that I skim through it. =.= I'll have to do a thorough analysis of the arguments..