Mini Normal 2248 | A Member Of The Arsonists | Town wins

[Pan Smierc]

miller here guilty on pan smierc VOTE: Pan Smierć

[Pan Smierc]

Fake?

[Pan Smierc]

Ć isnt allowed in usernames

[Pan Smierc]

co-mod ego, have fun~

scumclaim

[Pan Smierc]

ok nice i fixed my sig

[Pan Smierc]

Why=fry

[Pan Smierc]

t3 town

[Pan Smierc]

Me posting intentionally scummy to get attention and move the game along: cool and good
Me actually reaping votes from it: *pika surprise face*

[Pan Smierc]

Are you trying to self justify your vote more after a reasonable explaination why a townie is doing this?

[Pan Smierc]

klick more like big stick

[Pan Smierc]

Clearly I'm activated IC making a stupid play

[Pan Smierc]

SCUMMY PAGETOP
Not even a funny joke !

[Pan Smierc]

Why=fry

Why?

the cheeky insistence however deserves a townread

[Pan Smierc]

My way of words was a bit controversial in my last game.

Why?

before the end people said i talk weird and it got me labelled as scum by a few town people. its not the first time but usually people dont treat me as alignment indicative

You got locktowned in a recent game though once you talked for a while just do that and you should be fine!

[Pan Smierc]

whats funny is that was part of why i townread you t3

[Pan Smierc]

The activity in this game is so slow, what gives?

[Pan Smierc]

egix town

[Pan Smierc]

Also darby is at e-2 don't put anymore votes there and if your vote is rvs please unvote

[Pan Smierc]

may i ask why?

[Pan Smierc]

I’m not sure if scum Egix would go directly to pans defense

To be clear, I'm not sure what to make of Pan. What you're thinking is a defence is more like a hedge.

VOTE: cookie

A lot of faer focus is currently on how fae are going to be read this game in a way that scum like to do

Well um okay.

Not sure? Why dont you interact with me then if you have uncertainty?

[Pan Smierc]

cool cookie is a slot that seems scummy early but towntells later give em a chance everyone

[Pan Smierc]

Not sure? Why dont you interact with me then if you have uncertainty?

Because there's no one single post of yours that I actually have anything worthwhile to say about.

How about this one? VOTE: klick

[Pan Smierc]

may i ask why?

i think it's clear why

If why is clear how are we voting him?

[Pan Smierc]

cool cookie is a slot that seems scummy early but towntells later give em a chance everyone

wait why though

Ill link a large normal in a bit

[Pan Smierc]

cool cookie is a slot that seems scummy early but towntells later give em a chance everyone

wait why though

Ill link a large normal in a bit

oh alts

Surprised you haven't recognized me since it is pretty obvious imo but dont out me rn

[Pan Smierc]

can we not policy them and waste a mislim

[Pan Smierc]

like - what info does it give us?

so what if they're annoying

fucking solve outside of them

[Pan Smierc]

i dont have any
but i also dont have any reason to think they're scum.

its lazy as hell to vote there and handing scum a free mislim if theyre town and a lower info state with less mislims for us is a stupid as hell thing to do.

[Pan Smierc]

I kinda did that as a manipulative tactic to force votes onto me instead who can be read as a fake scumslip so people stop lazily policy voting a slot that clearly will eventualy be forced one way or another to post game advancing content hopefully

[Pan Smierc]

like seriously u flip them and they flip town or scum what info does that give you?

nothing.

[Pan Smierc]

scum will happily bus or resist limming a slot like that so its entirely NAI because also a townie will be just as likely to support voting or oppose policy.

try to engage in a way that at least good faith attempts to work with their gimmick to get reads yknow?

[Pan Smierc]

Well I would rather set up a gamestate that helps us overall solve the game than lazily waste the important info gathering day

[Pan Smierc]

even if the slot is scum they are never surviving ELo so why bother being worked up about it?

[Pan Smierc]

VOTE: STD

[Pan Smierc]

im drunk

[Pan Smierc]

if you want to eliminate a slot within the first 72 hours becaues they made u upset with their play than why are you playing this game

i want to actually evaluate stuff not play "eliminate the person i dont like"

[Pan Smierc]

go play in mish mash survivor games if you want to do that

[Pan Smierc]

i have no patience for people pushing a solveless gamestate

[Pan Smierc]

no i dont think ur towny alongisde klick but i want to put pressure on you rn.

[Pan Smierc]

link me a single game where you solve the game after a policy elimination

[Pan Smierc]

actually doesnt even have to be you - can be anyone else.

[Pan Smierc]

hard to do so cause people don't policy bc its terrible in forum games where you have time to evaluate

[Pan Smierc]

i have no patience for people pushing a solveless gamestate

so how is Why

not

doing this
if they just spend the whole game asking why how are you expecting to be able to solve them

so you do the lazy thing and focus on them now instead of trying to solve the game around them *THEN* policy once you have some info elsewhere?

we are not even at 200 posts. stop trolling. I know for damn sure scum are salivating at getting an easy lim on why so I better have good explanations for the votes *especially* if they flip town.

[Pan Smierc]

You really like the word 'lazy'
You also didn't answer my question

I didn't answer your question because i dont disagree with you on that front. I just think its a very unholistic way to approach teh game to be like "ZOMG ANNOYING GIMMICK GET IT OUT FIRST"

[Pan Smierc]

Moz, t3, Bendover, Cool Cookie.

Plus Pan, so town bloc:
Moz, T3, bendover, Cool Cookie, Pan.
I like to P.O.E.

poe meta gang

[Pan Smierc]

In most instances you rand town but this time you randed scum*
Fixed your overexplaination for you.

[Pan Smierc]

I like ben and klick for town.

Pan could be scum for TMI on why.

T3 seems okay but I've been fooled by him before

Dont really have a strong read on other people

Why's your vote on why over me then?

[Pan Smierc]

and no no one is towny for pushing a policy on a slot not producing game advancing content(mod please fucking prod the slot)
What is actaully scummy though is intentionally immediately trying to vote out that slot when you claim to have options elsewhere for scum that are readable slots.

[Pan Smierc]

I like how you made up a reason to justify your vote on me that's cute

Whats made up?

[Pan Smierc]

Not_Mafia replaces IOnlyAskWhy.

Actually readable pog

[Pan Smierc]

S

U

P

C

L

O

D

P

O

L

E

S

,

I

'

M

T

H

E

J

E

S

T

E

R

A

N

D

I

'

M

H

E

R

E

T

O

T

R

O

L

L

T

H

E

F

E

C

A

L

M

A

T

T

E

R

O

U

T

O

F

T

H

I

S

G

A

M

E

!

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Why?

[Pan Smierc]

Stop twsiting my words.
Your lack of actions elsewhere is why im making that read not your push onto a null slot.
i distinctly separate those 2 as different.

If the slot flipped any alignment it would give us nearly nothing.

If you think you've caught me in some sort of logical contradiction and can push me on it - you are dead wrong

[Pan Smierc]

Lack of action elsewhere and lack of depth are the metrics I'm using here.

[Pan Smierc]

get lost uncharitable scum

[Pan Smierc]

Looks like I generated a lot of content tbh

oh right i forgot that was your alt

[Pan Smierc]

I know so its not much of a upgrade, but its better than just saying "why" all of the time

Why?

Why why?

[Pan Smierc]

get owned STD

[Pan Smierc]

std town pan lean town the end

Change to pan lean scum and we’d have the same read.

What is scummy about my play thus far?

[Pan Smierc]

the whole why wagon was predicated off a policy vote - now that NM is in the game - yall can actually play, no?

Or are we going to just play the game of making d1 a scum freebie when we already likely have 1 less mislim than normal or scum are much stronger than normal.

[Pan Smierc]

actually that is a good question: who thinks there are 2 scum and who thinks there are 3?

i started the game in a scummy way in order to try to get read as traitor and see who townreads me in a poor way - i was hoping to hold the discrete test for a bit longer but since wagons are going the way I don't want I am claiming it now.

[Pan Smierc]

being honest about my actions and thought processes should be read as towny, actually.

[Pan Smierc]

the whole why wagon was predicated off a policy vote - now that NM is in the game - yall can actually play, no?

Or are we going to just play the game of making d1 a scum freebie when we already likely have 1 less mislim than normal or scum are much stronger than normal.

Why do you keep assuming that the NM slot is town?

Why are they scum?

[Pan Smierc]

VOTE: Pan

What the fuck is wrong with you.
I'm trying to dismantle 2 leading wagons i dont think are scum and your your reaction is to start one on that slot?

[Pan Smierc]

Mind you- fypov one of those slots are confirmed green (yourself!) So whats up darby? Am i talking too much? Being too aggressive?
Gonna pull out a noob reason on me?

[Pan Smierc]

What the fuck is wrong with you.

Being too aggressive?

Yes

And when has this been a scumtell?

I challenge you to find me a game where someone was caught as scum because of at least in part for aggression - i actually can find more examples of someone trying to push another person for aggression / WIM than you can find what I'm requesting

[Pan Smierc]

std town pan lean town the end

Change to pan lean scum and we’d have the same read.

What is scummy about my play thus far?

i started the game in a scummy way in order to try to get read as traitor and see who townreads me in a poor way - i was hoping to hold the discrete test for a bit longer but since wagons are going the way I don't want I am claiming it now.

I’m not even going to make an argument.

wah wah
In the latter quote the implication was "scummy in the way scum usually think they can push on/noob town will push on"
I dont explain every facet of what i mean but if you're so hopelessly lost I need to for you you only need to ask instead of assuming the worst.

[Pan Smierc]

game 28392 where i feel like a 4 dimensional cube among 1 and 2 dimensional players

[Pan Smierc]

flowchart sorting has never worked and never will

[Pan Smierc]

Mind you- fypov one of those slots are confirmed green (yourself!) So whats up darby? Am i talking too much? Being too aggressive?
Gonna pull out a noob reason on me?

I'm not a fan of your play style, no, but my vote is specifically on how sporadic your style is. You come across as unreliable to the town so you're able to backtrackasier if hard pushed. I don't trust that.

Fucking cope with it.
You can call it whatever it is but don't claim your push on me isnt for playstyle reasons.
If you want to find scum i suggest you put your fee fees away and learn to play with people who take initiative in a hard way. Also those people tend to be town

[Pan Smierc]

ellaborate then my good sir.
I await what i expect to be highly intelligent analysis that proved i am without a doubt scum

[Pan Smierc]

Lets try refocusing in a way that is productive: do you think the wagon on you is pure that you're suspicious outside? At the very least i ask you to bin me until d2 at least - as a show of good faith that i am helping your wagon dissolve here and push you as town.

I know we arent going to agree on my playstyle but im willing to adjust for someone i townread - I'm an open book. I laid my hand on the table.
I like to stay 2 steps ahead of scum if i can - im just honest about the manipulative tactics i use because im.not on my main and people on this playerlist are less accustomed to my playstyle.

[Pan Smierc]

I can't discuss the reasons i think you were toen before your last post that well but your latest post gave us an insight into the complex way you are approaching the game which is blindingly towny to me

[Pan Smierc]

My apologies for the aggressiveness btw its my natural way tonplay and I should be reserving it for scumreads and not townreads

[Pan Smierc]

Now they are trying to pocket Darby

Backwards conclusion

[Pan Smierc]

@Pan I’m on mobile now, I’ll answer your question about my wagon soon-ish when I get back home. I don’t think I could format it well now.

In the meantime, could you elaborate on 314? I know you don’t mean I’m pocketing you, but how is it backwards?

Also, I appreciate 312.

I was saying that the accusation is clearly working with the conclusion i am scum and working backwards rather than a genuine read on what I'm doing.
as in its just twisting actions to fit a theory they want rather than analyzing actions to build a theory.

[Pan Smierc]

actions on d1 are not alignment indicative

explain how my thought process behind those actions are scummy.

[Pan Smierc]

Notice: I am still allowing you to engage and explain your own thought process and ellaborate

you are shutting me down and trying to avoid expanding or complicating your read on me - despite D1 being a low info gamestate.

This is an incredibly bad look for you - and a good look for me. Let's say - theoretically, I am scum and you are town - you are simple handing me an easy mislim in you by refusing to ellaborate or engage with me in good faith.
But if I'm indeed scum here - you can easily shut me down and restrict my pushes even more by responding and displaying your own towniness -> The choice is yours.

Now- I am town here and if you do show you are town I will probably shift my primary attention to Klick, who I believe is under the radar trying to look good > solving the game(I do not trust that their townread on me is genuine or in good faith - as their actions do not line up around it, as one would trust their townreads to an extent to not just shade them and hedge it)
Regardless, I digress.
StD, I know you're capable of analysis. And I have an ace up my sleeve meta wise that I have saved to respond with pending your response - I will bring it up for discussion pending your elaboration, something I know town!you is able to do.

[Pan Smierc]

I am giving you this charatibility because you have a near 0% read rate towards my main. I have gotten you mislimmed when scum before too - but once you know who I am I will point out that I was simply very simple and very much like you are doing towards me, shoved actions = scum narrative at you to get you mislimmed.

I have laid out my thought process behind the actions you are supposedly claiming to be scummy - Why do you think I am lying/disingenuine?

[Pan Smierc]

Good luck with that

You wouldn't engage me earlier why am I supposed to engage you now

Because you are older than a toddler.

[Pan Smierc]

But if you'd like i can treat you like a toddler if you wish to act like one.

[Pan Smierc]

Ok well going in circles semantically trying to point out 1 small thing the other did or didn't do isn't helpful - I'm pushing that aside now myself.

I've had too many moments where I felt someone was way off their town meta and I was clown level incorrect - so consider that this may be a situation like that - its early into d1, be flexible.

[Pan Smierc]

What was the honest question? What likely happened was I called you scum for something other than the question - because I don't remember a question being part of my reasoning - and I likely either missed the question or deemed it unimportant, something I often do.

[Pan Smierc]

I am currently scumreading Klick- who is part of it + it is a fair point I i didn't really give much thought to moz, but to be fair I cannot pay attention to everyone at the same time. I thought their entrance was tonally towny I believe and I sorta let it slide. I don't remember who else voted there and I think if it was ben I had reasons to townread them while with you, you had nothing that showed you as town.

I hope that's satisfactory.

[Pan Smierc]

I cede it's fair to believe from your point of view that I was being intentionally hypocritical towards you so I'll give you some space to breathe. You're putting a lot of energy into the thread though and that leans +town for me typically and with that kind of play it is easier to reeval later on energy shifts.
VOTE: Klick

[Pan Smierc]

man its actually really easy to be nice and not aggressive and try to communicate without being mean huh
i should try this more often

[Pan Smierc]

"I replaced in claimed weak vig and voted you

i thought i buried you but town did the work for me lul

And I feel the same about you - I think your start was a bit awkward to begin with in a way that was distinct from your town games and your insistence on policying was uncharacteristic when compared to, Charge Me Up! for instance where you showed a more holistic analysis of the board on D1 and had reads on several slots- and the fact that Not_Mafia was there too.

I'm point out these things so perhaps you can clear up the disparity if you may, not because this is a locked in thing that I am using against you - I completely understand each game is different.

Been a little tunnely lately and failing other than my Large Normal performance of catching 3/4 scum and PoEing the last one, so I'm a lot more patient/cautious so if you're reading me in good faith - that may be also part of what you're seeing + my fancy pants play of trying to sus out scum via traitor telling"

i had this typed up in a tab earlier but i forgor what i was gonna finish with so im just gonna hit send on the draft cuz i might as well share thoguhts i had

oh hey i mainslipped finally but yeah xD

[Pan Smierc]

not like I was subtle about it personality wise

[Pan Smierc]

Lmao and here I was interacting with Pan expressly with my experience with Koba and now I know why.

well I hope that gives you better insight although the experience is limited and all and cant be discussed

[Pan Smierc]

not only am i attracting attention i also have explained my intentions behind them

I'd like you to talk more about the Klick thing @ben

[Pan Smierc]

Happy scumday btw

[Pan Smierc]

VOTE: pan I changed my mind.

Wagons are dying down now and you need to keep them alive, huh?

[Pan Smierc]

Idk what happened to cool cookie but I hope their explaination for avoiding this game is good bc i have yet to find a reason to find them town so far

[Pan Smierc]

egix has towntold btw - this is another reason want to vote klick here. The way they are forming reads are just choosing what gamestate they want to push.

[Pan Smierc]

Atm based on how im reading thought processes and levels ofntowntelling - im looking at a "below the town bar" list of
[Klick, thyn, t3, moz(? I need to double check their posts I think i can eliminate this), cool cookie]
which is less than half the PL so a good start.

[Pan Smierc]

Pan goes from town reading me to scumreading me as soon as I vote them.

Quote where i said i townread you.
My.list is simply who i domt townread

You townreadimg me earlier and me ignoring you doesnt mean i tr you back

[Pan Smierc]

I'll see if I can case or talk myself out of it later

Maybe fucking try interacting with the person yelling at you to engage them instead of confbiasing. Not in a good mood today and annoyed that charitablness isnt being reciprocated.

Consider that my thought proceses are on the table and that pressuring me isnt going to make me any more open and just asking me questions will.

Like i carried your ass when you were town before so show some respect bc you mislimmed me twice and i saved you twice.

[Pan Smierc]

std if im flipped you need to promise to sheep me btw bc i dont want to die d1 and then townies ignore poed slots bc thats how we end up losing and i see that happening here

[Pan Smierc]

t3 town

post <100 reads kek

Ok you got me there but im also chronically terrible at reading your alignment. I think at some point i felt there was viability of you pocketing me and that put you in poe but high in it. Like theres a reason im.*not* pushing your elim here

[Pan Smierc]

Actually i reread why i said that and u can leave PoE for now but i also suck at reading you so that should never be legacy

[Pan Smierc]

also the fact it seems like ben is talking to open air is super town indicative

[Pan Smierc]

i have more substantial reads on everyone than people have on a few slots

Read the damn game youre in thanks

[Pan Smierc]

lazy fucks

[Pan Smierc]

yes im totally poeing my partners here thats definitely it egix

explain your reads so i can actually attack what i expect is bad logic on my slot.

[Pan Smierc]

Like its so wild when im opewolfing and refuse to explain my reads i breeze through to limlo or close to it but when im town and i am trying my best to explain shit in a way others will undertand its like hurr durr scum koba!!!
Just admit u suck at using meta and move on!

[Pan Smierc]

Atp its just voting for someone bc you dont like them or their playstyle - if thats so just say it dont pretend its anything else bc its embarassing.

[Pan Smierc]

VOTE: cookie

ill compromise

call it self pres if you want but its just a coincidence to do with nothing happening towards klick and people actually being interested in cookie and them being low in my PoE atm.

i sniped cookie town at a time they were consensus PoE so i feel confident i can get them town if they are.

[Pan Smierc]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87720
this game

read cookie's iso, i found them to be very obvious town in this game. so i feel i can find them again if they towntell here - and i also initially scumread them there

[Pan Smierc]

Subject: Large normal 236 [Game over]

talking about policy elimming and speed elimming someone is a red flag for me, we have 4 days left? I can think about it

actually i want cool cookie to explain why they were quiet about the Why wagon

[Pan Smierc]

hope cool cookie is ok :c

[Pan Smierc]

egix you're doing that thing where you're projecting what you would do rather than think what the person you're analyzing would do.

[Pan Smierc]

I opposed the why wagon bc it was low info - if you actually listened to what i had to say that was why. Quote where i said i townread them.

[Pan Smierc]

try holistically analyzing my slot like I have with my stronger townreads - you'll see differently.
Scum will ignore facts being presented to their face to push their agenda most often - because that is often the only way to frame a townie.

Let me give you a better exercise to follow up - because i know the answer - do you see no possible town motivation/explaination, *no matter how anti town you think it is* for the things you've labeled as scummy?

[Pan Smierc]

It pings me you wont use meta at *all* because its intentional exclusion of info to accurately sort - and now i am tempted to do a meta dive to see if this is how you treat me in past games as all our games have been TvT in the past

[Pan Smierc]

Subject: Micro 977: Video Game Metal Covers (GAME OVER!!!)

Do you have any other reads?

I kinda like that JL seems carefree with the whole "I'm <role>, also <other role>" thing.

I also feel like doing this:

VOTE: DkKoba

but that's little more than just inexplicable vibes/gut.

noted u also clowned a bad read on me at first as i found actual scum
try to learn from mistakes egix ~~

[Pan Smierc]

You just scumread my playstyle and should admit it

[Pan Smierc]

my early reads are also bad its ok to be honest, i reevaled multiple people already after realizing i holistically missed something

[Pan Smierc]

Subject: Micro 977: Video Game Metal Covers (GAME OVER!!!)

What do you make of Koba's push on you Egix?

Is it really a push? I'm not sure what you're really asking since what Koba is doing is pretty self-explanatory.

humbling reminder that you had this confidence against me before too egix

humble yourself pls

[Pan Smierc]

Very convincing argument StD

[Pan Smierc]

also rereading metal game covers makes.me realize how strong i get once i have confirmed flips to work with lol

[Pan Smierc]

Stop focusing on me and sort others. You are chronically often hard focused on people and it isn't helpful. Read the game.

[Pan Smierc]

Std do you townread egix and ben?

[Pan Smierc]

There's enough content to sort egix. Try harder
Im town blocking you 3 so get to it

[Pan Smierc]

nah i think pan's just scum here and i'm not going to convince anyone of that but there's not a lot of solving and a lot of getting angry at people and trying to discredit them for voting them using "facts" and "logic" that's really kinda bull

if i'm wrong i'm wrong and i won't agonize over it

good thing you have a very poor readrate on me so this makes me actually look towny.

[Pan Smierc]

enjoy getting carried for the nth time tho

[Pan Smierc]

why the heck are people voting cookie

you didnt have an issue when people were voting Why, whats up now when people vote a slot with low content that is readable?

[Pan Smierc]

When the game is this dead I really cannot do anything :cri:
I feel like the case against Pan is mostly just the fact that a lot of people didn't like Pan's stance on Why and not related to their alignment; the 'TMI' isn't all that scummy either tbh.

The funniest part is i never even said nm slot is town at that point i just didnt want to rush the elim onto a low info slot and proceed to waste and elim :X
feelsbad you're likely the n1 target and hope we have a doc

[Pan Smierc]

if not only 1 but *2* people with trash read rates on me and t3 who also has a shaky ~50% read rate on me are expressing extreme confidence im scum (and sux that StD still refuses to drop their pride after so many games fucking up on me) - it should scream "koba town"

also i completely forgot abt darby but i miss u darby i value ur input you arent bad and im not trying to pocket u

[Pan Smierc]

wait i was wrong abt charge me up i false remembered that

but u do a ton of actual analysis on d1 there so i hope you show some more depth like your towngame soon

[Pan Smierc]

I'm no longer buying that you simply scumread me off gut with nothing else after diving your meta

[Pan Smierc]

Your refusal to engage is umcharacteristic to you being toen

@ben please ask the same questions i am becsuse i suspect std will give a halfbaked reply that amounts to " i sr u so i say nothing"

can you go into more detail about what feels off about my play StD? Some details - its not as if i csn go back in time to change what ive done so you shouldnt be worried about me changing my mind.

I still think you could be town here playing like an ass so please dont reduce my opinion of you here.

and to add onto the charhe me up thing i remembered how lazily you treated the fake guilty on me ^^ that was it.

[Pan Smierc]

[Citation needed]

[Pan Smierc]

Why are you dodging a conversation about adding depth to your read and explaining whats going through your head?

[Pan Smierc]

Doesnt need to be complicated - just something tangible and not just "my fee fees"

[Pan Smierc]

what does your gut say about everyone on the PL?

[Pan Smierc]

why the heck are people voting cookie

you didnt have an issue when people were voting Why, whats up now when people vote a slot with low content that is readable?

I knew why people were voting why I didnt know why cookie was getting rung up

Well the reason is the pillow entrance and unengaged nature theyre playing vs how i was able to see them with energy in my last game with cookie.

[Pan Smierc]

Its hard to put into specifics but theres a sort of lack.of analytivsl thought that cookie had in our large normal but also i did initially scumread them there too but im townreading a lot of people around them and wanted to pressure them more.

The more i look back.the less confident i feel abt cookie tho but the lack of analysis does still stick out.

[Pan Smierc]

My problem is you usually try to control the town as town in a way that I'm not seeing here

And I think you may have TMId

And I think you use discrediting people to try and throw suspicion off of you

And I think you're not solving I'm not sure your trs feel organic like you had an early egix tr when I'm still trying to figure them out

not every game is the same.?? I have less read confidence on people here. I also approach the gsme differently if im.not townread at the time - if i am you'll see that koba.

I dont see how discredding people scumreading me means im scum- want to tell me what town me does there? Actually hell you know i do that as town. I will prove it if you refuse to admit it.

Just because i gain read confidence faster than you doesnt make me scum- im more likely to be scum if im waffling reads on people and refusing to townread early because i want to see what gamestate i want - i can also link games that prove i can quickly find reads. I've played with egix 2-3 times and found them correctly with reasoning im those games so i feel ive found how to read them so the disrespency is likely there.

Like im not sure what i gain from scumreading people who townread me like klick and t3(poe but not scumread but still) and tring people fosing me as scum here. I beg you look for info elsewhere

[Pan Smierc]

Players

Save The Dragons

MargotRosa

town
Not_Mafia

IOnlyAskWhy

town
Thynhith ???
Pan Smierc scum
Klick

TheZenMan

town
Egix96 ????
cool cookie -

Seeking for replacement

????
T3 wary but tl
ben dover123 town
mozamis -

Seeking for replacement

town
DArby town

Rich of you to attack me for having a quick townread on egix but you claim a bunch of townreadd including on nm

[Pan Smierc]

Players

Save The Dragons

MargotRosa

town
Not_Mafia

IOnlyAskWhy

town
Thynhith ???
Pan Smierc scum
Klick

TheZenMan

town
Egix96 ????
cool cookie -

Seeking for replacement

????
T3 wary but tl
ben dover123 town
mozamis -

Seeking for replacement

town
DArby town

Rich of you to attack me for having a quick townread on egix but you claim a bunch of townreadd including on nm. Jfc.

[Pan Smierc]

actually i have a scumcase in the works. Stay Tuned TM

(will have to wait until tomorrow bc I need to sleep for work but I found something in this game thats like "holy shit")

[Pan Smierc]

StD - does your view on me change at all when you consider the fact I defended NM slot from being wagoned for policy and you are TRing them now?

Seems a bit inconsistent to me with logic. Wouldn't you say that a person dismantling a TvT wagon, from your reads, is actually +town? Your reads just dont match up with reality of actions and I'm trying to figure it out.

I'll be honest. THe scumcase was going to be on you - and I found that in early game as town you tend to have decent analysis on multiple slots even if a couple are gut - but here you are just hyperfocused on me. You have no non multiball scumgames to crossreference with - but you also actually have a high accuracy on me early game so there's also a BoP there.

I'm a swell person so I am giving you a chance to clear the air so to speak - and I'm starting to feel my initial push was *not* in vain.

I frankly think your reasoning for how i'm approaching the game is bullshit and not in fact logical with how the gamestate is clearly at where I am not trusted by many. I just don't see how you genuinely formed those thoughts after reading through how you approach my slot in previous games where we are TvT.


There are seveal inconsistencies with your logic against me and the reality of what has occured this game / who I am as a person and our history.

[Pan Smierc]

fuck this.

I dont want to spell this shit out like people are 5
VOTE: STD

StD has 0 depth to their play and they as town do have depth so this is a straight up scumclaim from their end to lack this depth regardless of me seeing their play + they have read me accurately in the past and where they have read me accurately it was not just *gut*.


They refuse to acknowledge the parts of their argument that are false because they cannot have the conversation without continuing to pretend like they are ignorant of that because it dismantles the reasoning to push me. I am done.


I think my PoE is correct and should be sheeped for the rest of the game.

Don't be a cowardly scum StD, make points against me that are acutally rooted in factual content and not just tossing gaslighty points at me. Its a despicable way to play scum otherwise and it tilts me to no end.

[Pan Smierc]

I am thunderdoming StD. Either you are with me or you are not.

@ben and anyone else I highly suggest you go through these games and look at how StD plays on D1 early game, its night and day:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86404
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=86330

was gonna link 1 more but too lazy to find among the myriad of games STD has on his profile.

[Pan Smierc]

keep trying to plead ignorance as i shove counterevidence in your face

it makes you easier to bury.

[Pan Smierc]

everyone, this is how you catch scum with their pants down.

they want a specific gamestate

they want to make sure they can still viably still push a point without needing to go elsewhere.

they have a plan in mind that relies on specfic events happening

so they need to make sure their stances arent forced to change - so forced ignorance is a common tactic.

this is what StD is doing. he is refusing to take in new evidence and actually think about the game.



ive caught many scum this way in recent times. I will continue to do so

if you wanna play scum lazily? go ahead. but dont be surprised when you get caught easily for refusing to put in effort behind your fake thought processes.

[Pan Smierc]

I'm not trying to convince you of my point. I am pushing you to prove me wrong if I am wrong - but your lack of rebuttal just tells everyone else that you dont actually disagree so thanks for making my job easier.

[Pan Smierc]

Subject: Open 809: Charge Me Up! [Over]

let's unpack this

i didn't say "it IS an OMGUS, therefore scum." just that it makes me wary.

besides that, it looks like VFP has reads on people who aren't you, so I'm not sure your second part applies?

You say it's OMGUS and that makes you uncomfortable, and then vote me in the next few posts and you seriously expect me to assume that you mean that it's OMGUS which is seperate from the reason I am voting you because I think you're scum.

- JV

sorry. maybe i need more coffee because i'm not parsing

i said it was basically an OMGUS and that it bothered me. it is part of the reason i'm voting you, yes. i'm just pointing out i didn't say OMGUS = scum which you implied with your "OMGUS != scum" part of your post.

i forgot to quote the posts but this is an example of how town!StD approaches games and vs how he is approaches this one.

[Pan Smierc]

actual good faith sorting - not blind tunnels.

StD doesnt blind tunnel.

which is probably why i mistook him as someone else.

[Pan Smierc]

in StD's own words of how he sorts as town: StD does not seem solvy at all.

Oftentimes - a person's idea of what a scumtell is is what they lack when they are scum.


and again - I point out several times that my opposition to the Why wagon had nothing to do with my read on them but rather the principle of a null slot flipping with low info - and the fact i never called Why town - while StD calls it TMI - is very bullshit and StD is still trying to peddle this point and will not interact with me about the subject *at all*. This is intentional ignorance - as StD cannot cede the point is bunk because it makes his arguments appear to be weaker. and we can't have that when trying to mislim a townie, right?

And if you're planning on disagreeing with me on the basis you already preflipped me scum: a) fuck you b) stop preflipping c) fuck you again

[Pan Smierc]

Huh

You said mislim instead of elim

That's TMI

That's where you called why town

it was intentional to grab attention off why so people stop policy voting and we dont lose d1 discussion.


you hyperfocus on that because to holistically examine my play is to admit you are wrong.

[Pan Smierc]

can we not policy them and waste a mislim

like - what info does it give us?

so what if they're annoying

fucking solve outside of them

i dont have any
but i also dont have any reason to think they're scum.

its lazy as hell to vote there and handing scum a free mislim if theyre town and a lower info state with less mislims for us is a stupid as hell thing to do.

I kinda did that as a manipulative tactic to force votes onto me instead who can be read as a fake scumslip so people stop lazily policy voting a slot that clearly will eventualy be forced one way or another to post game advancing content hopefully

cmon StD try harder

[Pan Smierc]

i will keep shoving this in your face

[Pan Smierc]

Fact is you're a flat as hell slot who is not even examining other slots in the way you normally do as town and you have me as a pet scumread.

[Pan Smierc]

I extended enough olive branches to you. You're done. Finished. Over.

You can't even point to anyone I might be teamed with.

Like you know what a townie with your view would say about my teammates?

That its someone like cookie. Who is afk. That perhaps I'm frustrated with teammates who aren't even playing the game.
But your view isnt genuine and you suck at worldbuilding as scum so you perspective slip here - because you aren't solving.

You have 1 pet scumread and thats it. You don't want to piss off anymore town slots because you want to look good and be safe.

[Pan Smierc]

All you can do is discredit me now because you have no counterarguments against my very cleanly laid out plausibility for me being town.

[Pan Smierc]

Man i'm so fucking giddy I feel like i could sing.

Thank you for being blatant scum StD I've had a shit day and this has cheered me up./

[Pan Smierc]

Really? Based on what STD.

[Pan Smierc]

Ben is townreading me despite that - are they stupid now? Seems they are able to see a world where I say that. Klick too. You townread them both. What's up STD - why dont you ask them why they think despite that that its viable I'm town - Because why would they disagree with such a decisive piece of evidence as you are claiming! Really come on

[Pan Smierc]

Yes I'm using some AtE - but you're completely pretending to be ignorant of the content of what i'm saying.

Does town!koba never use ate? are you going to claim that StD?

answer please. does town koba never AtE? does that make it implausible to be town?

[Pan Smierc]

Ben is townreading me despite that - are they stupid now? Seems they are able to see a world where I say that. Klick too. You townread them both. What's up STD - why dont you ask them why they think despite that that its viable I'm town - Because why would they disagree with such a decisive piece of evidence as you are claiming! Really come on

This post is a ride lmao

your reaction to reading that because I'm right

[Pan Smierc]

discred me more i wanna build a stronger case on you that you are not solving at all and are pushing the agenda I'm saying you are <3

Please!

I really love when scum do exactly what I say they are doing <3

[Pan Smierc]

I can't wait for everyone that isn't T3 to come and read what you are saying and what I laid down and you to be wagoned.

[Pan Smierc]

quote examples StD - please!

[Pan Smierc]

and emberbloom was 3rd scum please.

[Pan Smierc]

Subject: Micro 1030: I tell you what I'm doing | Mafia Wins!

LMAO
My fucking scumgame is S tier when it comes to mimicking how i form reads as town so for you to accuse me of that is so fucking fake.

My d1 as scum are the most genuine looking *always*.

I won't drop the secret to what scum me does very differently until later but LMAOOOO you're so reaching.


Please cite which reads give you this vibe because as far as im concerned i have not given a single one other than to call you scum.

guys koba is so different and hasnt posted anything like this in this game yet.


zomg.

[Pan Smierc]

ember I'll let you sit and think about how you fucked up



all you've done is say I'm toxic - not that i'm scum, with a lie thrown in to try to frame me as scum.

scum barks I bite back

I'll tell you a secret - People who rand scum against me for the first time think I'm an easy push because I word things awkwardly and am prone to emotion.


Those people end up with *heavy* regret later, and even have self hammered themselves for me :3

ember also spewing toxic as their partner via shitty distancing is the cherry on top tbh

hey toxic - regardless of your alignment - most people at this table have meta on me

If you're playing this game to win and not your future games, then I feel like leaning on your past games so heavily, kinda goes against the spirit of that rule.

This was literally explained later about stuff that is NAI about me, nice try trying to use this against me tho LMAO

i will shut you down so quick i dont care what alignment you are - you're going to *learn* this game.

This post above is also kinda gross, because I'd rather you hunt scum than just lay into someone to try and "teach them a lesson". Especially someone who's admitted they lost interest and came back. Do you know who else lost interest in mafia for a long time? Myself. I'm glad I'm playing under a new username, so that players here don't waste their time looking at games from six plus years ago that I couldn't even remember playing at this point. (see cows' 37).

are you sad I might be a tough push?

Anyway.


Koba, it seems like you're getting more into an argument about Meta and its use ITT, rather than contribute anything substantial to the game. How does 43 - telling people your current posting is 'confirmed' Not Alignment Indicative according to witness - differ from a trust tell, or at least not get similar enough in argument?

HAHAHHA is this scum venting about how they cant use stuff they would normally try to use as ammo against me? rich as hell. what is this supposed to mean ember? Why is what I've said insubstantial? Its literally early game and you think that im going to wax and wane some amazing analysis? what i posted was perfectly sound for early game - can you show how every other person in the game so far has posted more substantial content than I? I would love for you to do so.

Please cite which reads give you this vibe because as far as im concerned

i have not given a single one

other than to call you scum.

Did you not just link an entire offsite game and everything to explain your read on Hockey? Actually, it was toxic - the person you're calling scum - who was the first person to ask you about Hockey. You essentially said your read was not alignment indicative, but also that your exp with Hockey has only been with scum!Hock, yes? Implying this is town!Hock?

I said I am HESITANT about reading hockey as town here because i got snowed - you dont get to lie via omission. I will call you out everytime. You are done.

Well, I'm surprised you went that deep into all of -gestures- that mess, instead of asking why toxic was inquiring about the vote. Given that Hockey had voted STD... for voting toxic. You engaged with the person you're calling scum to defend your read

i do this all the time especially early game because I am actually evaluating those people - YOU YOURSELF SAID THEIR EARLY POSTS WERE BAD AND THEN SAID THERE WAS A GOOD ONE LATER - so don't even try to give me this shit

, and are attacking people for calling out your use of Meta as a defense, yet didn't bother:
- asking about the chainsaw defense above, at all.

- inquiring more about toxic's lack of vote and blatant lurking (as toxic admitted to leaving as bait).

- or even my own post calling interactions between four players "noise" and blatantly choosing not to interact. (but were fine with also voting toxic who I started an easy pressure wagon for; showing you have the capability to

appear

like you're scumhunting at minimum)


And yet. You had multiple points to find something to latch on to, yet you seem to only have "light pings" as reads; casting implied town vibes on Hockey and scum vibes on STD along the way in 63.

hockey was barely the whim of a vibe - and STD was fake pressure to push out of RVS - this is how i play the early game often. got anything better?

I don't like this playstyle. It looks genuine, sure, but you're not actually

doing

anything?

HAHHAHA we aren't even at post 100 my guy - looks like you realized this during this post and had to pivot into trying to shade me on purpose

My fucking scumgame is S tier when it comes to mimicking how i form reads as town so for you to accuse me of that is so fucking fake.

My d1 as scum are the most genuine looking *always*.

Hey, Koba. Just because the games titled, "I tell you what I'm doing", doesn't mean that's like, a post restriction for

you

.

but how is this post scummy bud? Why did you include it? Oh wait right - its fluff to make your case seem bigger than it is.

VOTE: Koba


Why tunnel in on toxic for voting you while you're handwaving Hockey's RVS vote on you due to 'personality'? Why did you genuinely answer someone who you thought was scum and was trying to "pressure" instead of applying more pressure or wondering why toxic was inquiring? Why not ask about me voting someone

outside

you/cows/HockeyFan?

Why not push Hock for reasoning on his STD chainsaw vote - if you were legitimately trying to solve this game via a meta playstyle - given your small sample size with his meta, then?

Also I haven't claimed once that I have more experience than you or alluded to my start date. I'm rusty, so what? Feel free to keep calling me a clown. Maybe you and the handful of other active players on this site can meta-jerk each other enough to run off any other returning players from having fun at the game too.

I refuse your olive branch.

As another player coming back off a long burnout, regardless of anyone's alignment here, I concur with toxic.

Maybe dialogue with us instead of pretending like you're better than us.

holy balls i got bored in ediitng in replies - this shit is all fluffy bullshit.

ok nvm maybe toxic is town and im just big mad lol

but ember is *definitely* scum

VOTE: ember

we humbling ourselves here

VOTE: toxic
Explain your intentions/thoughts process - HONESTLY - now. If you dont I'll consider you scumslipped.

nothing

i haven't seen a hockey town game yet but ive been town vs scum him and also coached him while being scum with him - and I get different vibes from both those games rn.

substantial

that is to say though - I was snowed by hockey in the game he was scum in, even with a cheater who knew he was scum trying to convince me he is scum lmao

btw

hey toxic - regardless of your alignment - most people at this table have meta on me - and they are saying what i've said so far is NAI (correct) - if you THINK you know better than them, you are big Wrong and a clown.

now dialogue with me instead of pretending like you're better than me

I've never been a huge fan of meta, but ok. I'm playing this game not the last game. That's just a personal opinion, though.

How do you feel about Hockey's vote on Save The Dragon?

I think its a bit silly but is NAI for hockey from my vibes because of personality.

can u point out the difference STD im having trouble??

is it the playerlist ?

[Pan Smierc]

protip dont blatantly lie when i can pull up with receipts!

[Pan Smierc]

words said before i get you limmed as scum and then your team has to kill a miller claim

[Pan Smierc]

Std koba stop arguing

I'll consider it if your reads gain any depth

[Pan Smierc]

I do that as either alignment and its clear why i do as town.
Grow a better argument (:

[Pan Smierc]

hi gamma u agree darby is town here right

[Pan Smierc]

i mean read the iso and tell me what u think b4 i need to waste effort on it.
Hard to towncase since its stuff i can't mention

[Pan Smierc]

Darby seems slightly towny by ISO
I also have a slot I’d very much like dead, probably over this whole thunderdome thing (which kinda looks like TvT even to my unfocused eye)

focus it in a little. just because im loud and angry doesnt mean i havent caught scum

[Pan Smierc]

std continues to prove my point by being vague and unspecific about things <3

calling me loud is so funny because that is opposed to my average scum game meta

[Pan Smierc]

is anyone going to post any thoughts re: pan vs. std

It’s killing the gamestate

you dont really have a right to complain when you arent trying to advance it very much.

[Pan Smierc]

T3, me, StD, Pan

Beyond these 4 people I cannot read anything else

what does this mean

[Pan Smierc]

Deadline

: FROZEN

What does this mean

It means the deadline is STOPPED while replacements are being found

Pls stop stalling making reads thx

[Pan Smierc]

VOTE: Meg

Explain your scumread on me if you care to

I was Scum reading Klick. I think Koba is either right about Klick or bussing.

Plus you would rather vote for NM and ask why I am voting you rather than doing anything productive.

Why do you not support a N_M lim here?

And mostly I'm waiting on Std/Pan to get back, since their odds at each other felt more impactful to the game during my readthrough

I've been lurking and reading along and stepping back so others can interact with eachother and not dominate the space as I've said my piece I needed to.

ALSO quick actually agreeing with me makes me fucking secondguess myself rn LMFAO

[Pan Smierc]

i have an alternative theory but im good with keeping it to myself rn

[Pan Smierc]

post replacements thsi game is now filled with people who either historically been bad at reading me, I have been bad at reading, or both so its like Fuck!

[Pan Smierc]

Town:
Gamma Emerald
Egix96
DArby

Null:
Not_Mafia
ben

Scum:
T3
Meg
1 Scum in StD/Koba

why is ben null and gamma town?

[Pan Smierc]

Hi, barely reading this thread, but I think I want to go here:

VOTE: cookie

Could be just a nice individual, but I get the sense they are Newb Scum trying to be agreeable rather than just being an agreeable person in general.

so would you say you understand how to read cookie better now?

[Pan Smierc]

because you found town!them on day 2 similarly to myself rather than d1

[Pan Smierc]

because you found town!them on day 2 similarly to myself rather than d1

I fail to see your point.

my point is to figure out if you're finding cool cookie as town via TMI - can you elaborate where you saw cookie's towny posts?

[Pan Smierc]

I think its totally plausible for a player to find another as town faster than they did previously - so do not think I am straight up accusing you here of TMI because something is different.

[Pan Smierc]

Actually nah I think Klick is town
I pretty much take my initial feelings on Klick and flip them because I feel like he’s scummy to me when town and towny to me when scum

do you think there are 2 or 3 scum?

traitors or no?

whats the bottom of your PoE looking like at this point in time?]


(mainly at gamma rn but also would like to hear the answers from others)

[Pan Smierc]

my vibes currently tell me its 2 scum 1 traitor at worst and just 2 scum otherwise.

i do not think we have 3 groupscum - but i have played in a setup that was 12p 3 groupscum which was evil and also town played terribad and i was unable to unvote when there was no hammer so yep lol

[Pan Smierc]

I’d expect 2 scum or 3 with 1 being a traitor
I have no real PoE set up as of yet

i dont care if its not a real PoE, post what you feel now. I want to be able to draw progression for you because I know that is somewhere you struggle to fake as scum.

[Pan Smierc]

I suppose I could give an info dump of my first impressions but those are subject to change and I don't think its needed

i think this might be helpful

i know this would be helpful

1 upped gotem.

[Pan Smierc]

Actually nah I think Klick is town
I pretty much take my initial feelings on Klick and flip them because I feel like he’s scummy to me when town and towny to me when scum

do you think there are 2 or 3 scum?

traitors or no?

whats the bottom of your PoE looking like at this point in time?]


(mainly at gamma rn but also would like to hear the answers from others)

Just a passing thought here, but I figured I'd point out that this somewhat looks like a rolefish.

yeah im fishing for traitor to claim u got me

[Pan Smierc]

And I am very curious what about your exp with me says I struggle to fake progression as scum, you saw my Moongrass read in townstumps

single slot progression sure but holistic? no.

[Pan Smierc]

occams razor says quick town

in the case they are scum it is TMI.

[Pan Smierc]

VOTE: meg

[Pan Smierc]

occams razor says quick town

in the case they are scum it is TMI.

Referring to?

ur mom lol

[Pan Smierc]

@Pan, tell me what you think of you/StD being TvS.

I mean i think StD is scum so ? lol

[Pan Smierc]

what a bizarre question when I was the one who was pushing that very opinion

[Pan Smierc]

i'd *love* to say its klick/std and T3 traitor but that would be way too fuckin easy yknow.

[Pan Smierc]

but also i have to stick to something and my MO is always to reeval over time

[Pan Smierc]

i mean we had 2 completely afk slots who weren't talking start talking again so

plus it was someone to interact with that wasn't STD so yee

[Pan Smierc]

holy shit i just remembered where i played with mozamis before and it was mini normal baseball where i mislimmed them and then powersolved the game with Anya