Mini Normal 2248 | A Member Of The Arsonists | Town wins

[Egix96]

VOTE: Thynhith

[Egix96]

Spoiler: quotes
Pan Smierc wrote:In post 18, redtea wrote:co-mod ego, have fun~scumclaimPan Smierc wrote:ok nice i fixed my sigPan Smierc wrote:Why=fry
I dislike this stream-of-consciousness posting. It feels like that 'jokey' breaking the ice thing that scum try to do in RVS.

Only the first of those quotes feels forced imo. It could just be a personality thing.

[Egix96]

Why=fry

Why?

My way of words was a bit controversial in my last game.

Why?

Out of policy this can go.

VOTE: Why

Do you not think that there's enough content to be able to form even a couple of rudimentary reads? Thus kinda feels like you're just trying to take an easy way out.

[Egix96]

*this

[Egix96]

Why=fry

Why?

My way of words was a bit controversial in my last game.

Why?

Out of policy this can go.

VOTE: Why

Do you not think that there's enough content to be able to form even a couple of rudimentary reads? Thus kinda feels like you're just trying to take an easy way out.

What are your reads, then?

Ben is a light town lean for 61. Sure, it's thought process, but I'm not seeing much in the way of overtly towny content so far this game.

54 and 56 from cookie are bugging me, mainly because not only does fae vote one person right after calling someone else mildly scummy, but also that the latter post feels pockety.

Not only is Klick's opening post a bit LAMIST, but 44 is also awkward.

VOTE: cool cookie

[Egix96]

I’m not sure if scum Egix would go directly to pans defense

To be clear, I'm not sure what to make of Pan. What you're thinking is a defence is more like a hedge.

VOTE: cookie

A lot of faer focus is currently on how fae are going to be read this game in a way that scum like to do

Well um okay.

[Egix96]

Not sure? Why dont you interact with me then if you have uncertainty?

Because there's no one single post of yours that I actually have anything worthwhile to say about.

[Egix96]

Not_Mafia replaces IOnlyAskWhy.

Actually readable pog

Well that's an overstatement.

[Egix96]

the whole why wagon was predicated off a policy vote - now that NM is in the game - yall can actually play, no?

Or are we going to just play the game of making d1 a scum freebie when we already likely have 1 less mislim than normal or scum are much stronger than normal.

Why do you keep assuming that the NM slot is town?

[Egix96]

kill darby

I hate myself but

Why?

he’s not trying
And ik what he’s saying about the inactivity being nai, I’m not talking about that

it just doesn't feel like he's got that solving energy

Does his recent posting make any difference?

[Egix96]

the whole why wagon was predicated off a policy vote - now that NM is in the game - yall can actually play, no?

Or are we going to just play the game of making d1 a scum freebie when we already likely have 1 less mislim than normal or scum are much stronger than normal.

Why do you keep assuming that the NM slot is town?

Why are they scum?

I'm not saying that he is. Just that there's a chance of it.

Egix needs to post some thoughts, I haven't seen anything besides questions from them in a while.

I will do that as they come to me. If there's anything specific you'd like me to examine, I can do that.

[Egix96]

this is another reason want to vote klick here. The way they are forming reads are just choosing what gamestate they want to push.

You mean their reads look too convenient? I can kinda see it.
(I will try to get more done later this evening)

[Egix96]

UNVOTE:

Spoiler: Pan quotes

Are you trying to self justify your vote more after a reasonable explaination why a townie is doing this?

I’m not sure if scum Egix would go directly to pans defense

To be clear, I'm not sure what to make of Pan. What you're thinking is a defence is more like a hedge.

VOTE: cookie

A lot of faer focus is currently on how fae are going to be read this game in a way that scum like to do

Well um okay.

Not sure? Why dont you interact with me then if you have uncertainty?

^ These two quotes are towny tbh

Also lemme pull up some stuff which made me think T3 was town
I know there was this one quote that I really don't think he makes as scum

Are you able to put into words why you thought those quotes were towny? I'm not seeing it myself.

[Egix96]

then townies ignore poed slots

That's the problem, there are so many null slots...

[Egix96]

You sound pretty tilted STD. Are you, perhaps, caught scum?

being honest about my actions and thought processes should be read as towny, actually.

I know I really should've said this at the time, but just... what. To both of these.

[Egix96]

Town
ben dover
T3

DArby?
mozamis??
Dragons??

Not confident on scumreads yet, but:
Klick?
cookie?
Smierc??

Don't have time for explanations rn, if you ask me I'll explain tomorrow.

[Egix96]

yes im totally poeing my partners here thats definitely it egix

explain your reads so i can actually attack what i expect is bad logic on my slot.

ben - I like 61 and posts such as 27, 175, 190 seem invested in moving the game along.
This is not something I would lock in but it's the best I've got.

T3 - Similarly to ben, attempted to get the ball rolling on page two. Also I kinda don't feel like scum posts 232.

Darby - Town feels from 249 and 297, more so from the latter.

Mozamis - Mild T feels from 101, 186.

Dragons - Just gut here really, he should be more like null but he's posted more than Thy/NM have.

Klick - Entrance to thread was awkward, posts like 233 and 280 feel like not wanting to state something until someone else already has.

cookie - reasons I stated before, plus 129 feels like scum waxing philosophical as a distraction tactic.

Smierc - Hard defends Why/NM slot despite seemingly only having a minor reason to TR them (62). 150 seems too nonsensical to be a sensible strategy.
256 also feels like a distraction tactic.

Like its so wild when im opewolfing and refuse to explain my reads i breeze through to limlo or close to it but when im town and i am trying my best to explain shit in a way others will undertand its like hurr durr scum koba!!!
Just admit u suck at using meta and move on!

To be clear, my read on you has nothing to do with meta and you outing your main did not affect my read.

[Egix96]

try holistically analyzing my slot like I have with my stronger townreads - you'll see differently.
Scum will ignore facts being presented to their face to push their agenda most often - because that is often the only way to frame a townie.

Let me give you a better exercise to follow up - because i know the answer - do you see no possible town motivation/explaination, *no matter how anti town you think it is* for the things you've labeled as scummy?

Perhaps I can if I think hard enough. I just don't think it's as likely.

It pings me you wont use meta at *all* because its intentional exclusion of info to accurately sort - and now i am tempted to do a meta dive to see if this is how you treat me in past games as

all our games have been TvT in the past

Yeah and that's exactly why. There's no point if I don't have a sense of what's a good example of your scum meta.

[Egix96]

Huh

You said mislim instead of elim

That's TMI

That's where you called why town

Actually I think it's a bit ludicrous that you are doubling down this hard.

Koba, I'll look at the links when I am done with morning stuff.

[Egix96]

I am thunderdoming StD. Either you are with me or you are not.

@ben and anyone else I highly suggest you go through these games and look at how StD plays on D1 early game, its night and day:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86404
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=86330

was gonna link 1 more but too lazy to find among the myriad of games STD has on his profile.

Sure, he seemed quicker to form reads and less tunnelly in the Open, but it was also a more active game.
I'm not sure the Large Normal is comparable because it would have been a much more intensive game.

[Egix96]

Catching up

[Egix96]

Right
Based on recent posting, I think I can take both Smierc and Quick (Thyslot) out of the PoE.
Azu is no better than their predecessor, and I especially dislike 711 because it seems to me like playing the "I'm too dumb to be scum" card.
Gamma, I am... not sure what to make of. I don't dislike their posting like I did cookie's, but at the same time there's nothing I can particularly say is towny either.
Dragons switching to Quick and then back to Pan feels like he's voting with the wind in order to stay alive, but eh, if he scumreads them both then I'm not sure if it's actually AI. If he is town then he ought to drop the whole emoji thing.

VOTE: Azumarill

[Egix96]

Gamma comparing LQ to a completely different player

Not a scumtell imo. I've done this as town a few times myself.

[Egix96]

Morning

[Egix96]

Gamma comparing LQ to a completely different player

Not a scumtell imo. I've done this as town a few times myself.

Oh, it's just Egix.

What are you doing

[Egix96]

@928

Still wasn't left off, he is Dragons on my list.
Regarding 249 you just don't know what I mean when I say feels

[Egix96]

Gamma comparing LQ to a completely different player

Not a scumtell imo. I've done this as town a few times myself.

Oh, it's just Egix.

What are you doing

Providing content for the game. And you?

I was out yesterday and I just woke up. I'm just trying to catch up here

[Egix96]

@egix when you see this can you link any sort of scumgame in a non-theme game if you can? I just wanna like double check I'm right - I am still fairly sure you are town I just wanna remove doubt

Go to my wiki, scroll down to 2021, go bananas

[Egix96]

BTW everything smierc says about how nbrz works is true
I was one in my previous mini normal

[Egix96]

Regarding 249 you just don't know what I mean when I say feels

Okay, well I expect you to be able to explain the read then.

I just thought it was a good catch and I felt ~~vibes~~ from it
Perhaps you are right it's not a good reason to tr but that was how I felt at the time

[Egix96]

kill darby

My inactivity is NAI and site wide.

can we not policy them and waste a mislim

TMI?

Wait wtf

bc pan said "mislim" as opposed to "lim"
scum knowing why will flip town

When did you change from this to lean town Pam?

I think you are getting these two posts mixed up

[Egix96]

@egix when you see this can you link any sort of scumgame in a non-theme game if you can? I just wanna like double check I'm right - I am still fairly sure you are town I just wanna remove doubt

Go to my wiki, scroll down to 2021, go bananas

I feel like maybe you would know you don't have any Scum games in 2021? I looked at (I think) your last Scum game. You were more punchy there. Still looking at stuff though.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... count-Game
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ame-Thread

Forgot that my wiki doesn't include offsite games.

[Egix96]

@egix why did you switch from gamma to meg?

Because I thought megazu was more likely scum. Why else.

[Egix96]

Why=fry

Why?

the cheeky insistence however deserves a townread

IMO, Pan should be the Elim based solely on this.

Let's not rush this. I'm not convinced that Pan is scum.
I had started re-reading during night, but I really wasn't expecting that kill so I feel like just scrapping what I had and starting again.

[Egix96]

Is Egix typically a passive player?

If you mean I don't usually have a lot to say, and I'm not the leader type, then yeah

[Egix96]

Who thinks there still is a traitor, and why?

I am erring on the side of there being two scum left but I don't think we should preoccupy ourselves with thinking whether one of them is traitor. I don't want there to be a situation where we avoid yeeting someone just because we think they're traitor and want the game to end quicker, because that's when you just end up yeeting town and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Egix96]

Egix, it's your turn to claim.

VT

[Egix96]

Mmmmmmmmm.

GTH?

StD traitor and NM informed for 500.

Actually the second argument could be made about any of us actually. NM HAS to be scum.

Scum could simply vote and NM would hammer because NM.

…Unless NM is the informed and the other is a traitor, meaning the other scum doesn’t know NM is scum. But still.

Informed already flipped tho?

[Egix96]

but I'm leaning Town on StD at this point because I feel like they are trying to solve.

That line of reasoning doesn't really apply at this stage tho

[Egix96]

i don't think it's unreasonable to leave off the two slots he did (why/N_M, you) because neither really had content at that point but it is weird they aren't just null

I just feel it's redundant to include nulls in a reads list.

[Egix96]

i don't think it's unreasonable to leave off the two slots he did (why/N_M, you) because neither really had content at that point but it is weird they aren't just null

I just feel it's redundant to include nulls in a reads list.

Can you show me where you have done this before? Please and thank you.

viewtopic.php?p=12766682#p12766682

This was a town list rather than a complete reads list but that's only because I didn't have a confident sr at that point.

viewtopic.php?p=12939319#p12939319

I only mentioned the people I had reads on, plus those I just wanted to see if they would post anything.

viewtopic.php?p=12302983#p12302983

Not sure if you would count this but that was just me saying the only reads I had at the time.

I could go further back through my ego but I would rather concentrate on re-reading the game we're in right now and you can always do your own searching if you really want to.

[Egix96]

Egix, could you drop some reads? Please and thank you.

Darby being town is what I'm most confident on. I thought so even before the claim even though I obviously can't prove that now.

I feel like the Enchant kill more likely comes from someone who is outside PoE, which makes me lean you scum over NM. (Dragons had just been taken out of the PoE by Koba at that point iirc but eh, I'm not confident on this)

[Egix96]

why do you think it's me

I don't have a super-strong feeling that it is, but how else is Pan getting elimmed?

I think Pan's points against you are not bad though.

LMAO
Quick might be scum here if StD is town

That's nice. Now engage me with the question I asked you. You're avoiding talking to me directly for some reason and IDK why.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety
This is scum badgering.

this doesn't feel like scum theatre

Considering that Gamma later switched to you in 698 I'm not so sure.

[Egix96]

does scum overnight effort to write a damning case against pan this is what i'm having the most trouble with

Tbh I don't think this is all that relevant
Still working on my next post

[Egix96]

I think cookie was Town. Good thought process and logical mindset. Didn't sense a motive and I buy his RT.

Has read on cookie that hasn't aged well, when asked to elaborate further he says...

because you found town!them on day 2 similarly to myself rather than d1

I fail to see your point.

my point is to figure out if you're finding cool cookie as town via TMI - can you elaborate where you saw cookie's towny posts?

I'd have to go back and look granted I can remember. I read the thread last night before I went to bed because I figured I would probably get the slot.

I already gave you a reason for the read. Deal with that if you want. I'm not incapable of making these kinds of reads. I've made accurate reads on P1 (but I usually change my reads as the game progresses because I'm just bad at sticking to initial impressions).

Response suggests to me that he was trying to defend a partner without having properly thought it through.

Pan, why is Cookie Scum?

Indirectly defending the slot.

VOTE: cookie
Sure

Another bad take. And no reasoning attatched.

Self-explanatory.

That's nice. Now engage me with the question I asked you. You're avoiding talking to me directly for some reason and IDK why.

(Click through to see context)
Admittedly this is one interaction that gives me pause, since to me this does feel like something that scum partners would be unwilling to point out as they would see it as something that would make them look partnered. Then again, as I type this line, I realise this could be levelled.

because quick understands its NAI for me

I mean, kinda, yeah. But like, that's why I propose chopping you if StD flips Town.

Of course, that means you have to vote Gamma here, which isn't a good look honestly.

Looking bad for voting scum?? Imagine that.

VOTE: StD
I actually like that LQ had the guts to vote Pan

I have evolved again. I would evolve into Quick as I evolved into LQ but this is more of a silent evolution.

VOTE: StD

It should be self-explanatory how partnery this looks. Btw gamma's pivot, shown nested here, is part of why I think Dragons is less likely scum than Quick.

StD Pan LQ
T3 Darby
NM Egix Enchant
Gamma Meg

Okay, Gamma is just Scum here.

To me this does not look like a towny approach, more like TMI. No consideration shown of the Ben kill being a frame/successful PR hunt.

***

why the heck are people voting cookie

I'm aware that this also exists, but Dragons's interactions with the Gamma slot are few so there's not much I can conclude there. Fwiw tho he does give a null read in 446.

NM has practically nothing between himself and the Gamma slot. Ftr I am not regarding Gamma's vote on NM as indicative because... well, I mean this in the nicest possible terms, but voting NM as a distancing tactic should not be seen as surprising.

I am regarding Darby's claim as Occam's Razor town since everyone else has claimed VT and imo it makes sense from a balance perspective for his role to exist if there are two scum left.
However, if by any chance we hit town today but the game doesn't end, it is likely bunk.

[Egix96]

isn't that something mafia could be informed about?

i don't really know if it's been done before or not i just assumed that "you know there's a traitor in this game" could count as informed

I thought koba already established that that would be separate?

[Egix96]

why

I thought overnight wall cases were generally regarded as NAI.
Idk about darby but I don't see why Quick can't do it, based on what I have seen of his playstyle

[Egix96]

To me this does not look like a towny approach, more like TMI. No consideration shown of the Ben kill being a frame/successful PR hunt.

I talked about the NK a lot more than that. This looks like you are trying to frame me...

I must have missed that then, I was relying on ctrl-f in order to not take forever to find relevant posts

[Egix96]

Egix being the only person SRing me makes me pause. Do they really think they can Lim me here?

Like, yeah, my association with Gamma on D1 was bad, but I voted Gamma for something they did D2

which I never outed

and it had to do with their approach to something. Let me try and find it.

It was this:

NAR dictates that if a CL is killed that their action from that night isn't counted. CLs can't exist in normal games but the same NAR principles apply
so depending on where "neighborize" sits in NAR should dictate what happens, actually

Because I was only half serious in my push on Pan not being Neighborized (to a point). When Gamma was still pushing that angle, I knew they were Scum. But I still don't know what CL is, I just knew I smelled some funny business from Gamma. And after I voted Gamma, they self hammered. That's an exceptionally weird play if we are both Scum here.

Bolded = oh how convenient /s

CL = cult leader

How exactly is it a weird play? I don't see how you mean so.

[Egix96]

@1768

When Scum see the writing on the wall, they will usually self hammer in order to deprive town of solving time. You voting Gamma there simply enables that.

[Egix96]

@1768

When Scum see the writing on the wall, they will usually self hammer in order to deprive town of solving time. You voting Gamma there simply enables that.

Like I asked before, have you ever seen Scum vote for their buddy just so they could self hammer? That early in the day?

Look, I feel like Std is Scum and I've been contemplating throwing down a vote there. So you are going to have to find me as Town in F3 because it will be you, NM, and me in F3 if I'm right and it's just StD.

I might have in some random game I spectated.
I'll sleep on it.

[Egix96]

Dragons/nm Scum team kinda feels too easy to be right.
Not that that proves anything but eh...

[Egix96]

Woop

[Egix96]

Egix, who do you see more Scummy between NM and DArby? What is your read on StD?

I was thinking NM but now I'm doubting myself due to the recent stuff. Also from a quick re-read of cookie's posts I can see that faer treatment of T3+Darby does look a bit fishy for him (specifically that fae didn't move faer vote while continuing to throw shade at T3).

The problem with Dragons is that if traitors didn't exist, I would simply have been able to write him off as not being scum with NM. But anyway, I still think he is more likely to be town than you are due to the pivot I mentioned before, plus 635 (read the context, obviously) makes me think that it's unlikely for him to be scum

with

you.

[Egix96]

Maybe you just thought a back-up whatever would sound convincing and fucked up/got unlucky with T3's flip

But if that’s the case why not just make another claim like fruit vendor or something that’s easier to fake?

Your claimed targets would have to be deadies and that wouldn't make you look any better.

[Egix96]

d2, obviously Egix voted for Gamma

I didn't vote d2 tho??

[Egix96]

Hi

[Egix96]

Hi

Your move?

Waiting for std

[Egix96]

Four??

[Egix96]

VOTE: Notmafia

[Egix96]

should I hammer?

2slow

[Egix96]

Spoiler: I'm bored

Step off the train all alone at dawn
Back into the hole where I was born
The sun in the sky never raised an eye to me
The blood on the tracks and must be mine
The fool on the hill and I feel fine
Don't look back 'cause you know what you might see
Look into the wall of my mind's eye
I think I know, but I don't know why
The questions are the answers you might need
Coming in a mess going out in style
I ain't good looking but I'm someone's child
No one can give me the air that's mine to breathe
I met my maker, I made him cry
And on my shoulder he asked me, why?
His people won't fly through the storm
I said hey listen up man
They don't even know you're born
All my people right here, right now
D'you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah
All my people right here, right now
D'you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah
All my people right here, right now
D'you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
I don't really care for what you believe
So open up your fist or you won't receive
The thoughts and the words of every man you'll need
Get up off the floor and believe in life
No one's ever gonna ever ask you twice
Get on the bus and bring it on home to me
I met my maker, I made him cry
And on my shoulder he asked me why
His people won't fly through the storm
I said listen up man
They don't even know you're born
All my people right here, right now
D'you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah
All my people right here, right now
D'you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah
All my people right here, right now
D'you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
All my people right here, right now
D'you know what I mean? yeah, yeah
All my people right here, right now
D'you know what I mean? yeah, yeah
All my people right here, right now
D'you know what I mean? yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

[Egix96]

Thank god