Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[Dunnstral]

Vote Count 3.2

This is another one of those "Flavor VC way later" counts sorry everyone

Player	Votes
Dunnstral (6)	gorilla (2444), Kovu (2528), SirCakez (2535), Gammagooey (2535), fireisredsir (2553), Meuh (2554)
SirCakez (2)	Dunnstral (2264), Bell (2470)
Fey (1)	Enchant (2260)
Not Voting (3)	Rhyme and Reason (2404), Val89 (2486), Fey (2527)

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate.

No elimination has been achieved. The Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2022-06-21 01:00:00).

Spoiler: Postcount Tracker

Player	Daystart postcount	Reserves
Bell	170	10
Fey	67	10
fireisredsir	173	10
Dunnstral	61	10
Rhyme and Reason	52	10
Meuh	169	10
Val89	67	10
Gammagooey	58	10
Kovu	152	10
Enchant	55	10
SirCakez	117	10
gorilla	165	10

Posts are capped at 125 posts per slot per dayphase. Please see the Ruleset and FAQ for more information and tips on tracking your postcount.

Actually...

This is a worthy question. Look at the VC. 4 of the people not voting Dunn are town, and one is Fey. I don't think this necessarily clears Dunn, scum have incentive to bus in this setup, but it's worth examining people in that light.

So it's more likely that I'm being bussed by multiple teammates than it is for someone else to be mafia?

[Dunnstral]

I guess my problem with Fey-scum is, who's her teammate? If I recall from yesterday, all of Meuh, Dunn, and Gamma came out wanting to push her. You can theorize about bussing but I don't think her first move, down a teammate, is to tell her temmate to bus her? It doesn't seem likely to me. I don't know. but her lurking out is a bad feeling regardless. Maybe scum wanted to kill each other and I decided to throw the game but I thought the arguments against her were tenuous and I distrusted the people pushing her. Good luck on that one.

Who is my partner?

[Gammagooey]

Question 1) Why did you ask gorilla who he guarded last night(2850) and like not follow it up with anything? like, usually when people ask questions there's thoughts to whatever the answer is

If he had claimed to have guarded anyone but Val I would have asked why - him bging anyone else could theoretically come from town trying to block a kill on conf. town but would have needed a damn good reason to do it from gorilla over protecting the investigative role, and the thought process behind that might have been useful. "I protected Val but was roleblocked" doesn't have anywhere else to go from there except setup speculation which isn't really what I want to get into yet.
Now that everyone's shown up at least once I think we should mass-claim at this point and make sure the assumptions we're making at the moment (that the only remaining PR claims are gorilla+Fey+Bell) are right.

Reading this ISO it's not as bad as I had in my mind. hmm

2611 you call me maf.. call me the "deepwolf" and talk about how 1 scum is putting in all this effort to avoid invictus shots..
Question 2) what had you thinking only 1 maf was trying super hard? like, by that point, none of the invictus shots were on maf, it's not like a single mafia has died this game... so if I had to guess, maf would be sitting fairly comfortably sure.. but what exactly makes fire or I a deep wolf? like, have we been left alive for people to start casting paranoia our way? At this point idk if this is even a question, this is just where my doubt is. like, you say fire or I is the 3rd deepwolf, but you don't cite anything scummy thus far to back up the claim. Like, just cause we're in a hood? like.. why do WE have to be the deepwolf? plus the claim that only 1 maf is trying hard? I mean, I think it's more that town just isn't trying or doing a whole lot to make themselves known and the "consensus poe" has basically just been the VT claims... like... yeah idk, I have lots of thoughts but we'll end there..

The lazy answer is 'usually there's a deepwolf', who through either effort or bussing or both, has put in the work to carry their team to victory if everyone else on the scumteam dies, and nobody else except you and fire really fit that - both of you have put enough effort into the game and pressured marci enough that everyone's reactions to both of ya'll have been "yeah that's fine" or better for the entire game and I'd be surprised if anyone claims to have targeted one of you two with an invictus shot since n2.

The slightly less lazy answer I already mentioned a piece of earlier - in a game where town get twice as many eliminations as mafia do kills, mafia need to have an actual plan to make it through the game, and generally they're aware enough of how they're perceived and the game-state to make one that doesn't suck. Unless you somehow get 4 Enchants on a scumteam, the plan is never "let's ALL lurk and hammer randomly and hope we win that way", and for a game like this there's going to be a Plan A Day 1 for "Ideally we can push these townies" and later a Plan B for "scum 1 gets/got elim'd early by elim/Invictus" and even later a plan C for "scum 2 gets a major wagon on them today" and etc etc. My gut is that you fit that best yesterday with the marci push d2 from you, that I think would be reasonable for you-scum to expect wouldn't go anywhere and just get some distancing in given your complaints about people not playing the game and not following you, but frankly that's more gut and paranoia than an actual conviction - your play yesterday was erratic but the only part I actually find scummy there was your brief push on me for voting Enchant early game+me posting from my personal PT, which I think could reasonably come from town. Fire also makes sense as a deepwolf as *the reasonable scum*, particularly after yesterday, in that he helped push marci early but also tried to convince me of both Lavar-scum D1 and Cakez possibly being scum with marci yesterday with decent but wrong reasonings and not really budging to consider my POV much on either.
Nobody else I think feels like they came out of the marci wagon with what could be a plan to get to endgame.

---------

I've got a couple meetings today so I prob won't be posting more *words* 'til after work, but assuming we start the massclaim today I can pop in around either lunch or ~3pm my time to claim so ya'll don't have to wait on me

[Dunnstral]

Would a roleblocker stop invictus shots?

[Rhyme and Reason]

okay, everyone whose name isn't Bell or Kovu, full readslist of all remaining players (you do not need to include us or Bell) next time you're in thread please

~Rhyme

[Dunnstral]

Kovu
Fire
Gamma
Fey
Meuh
Gorilla

Something like this for me

[Dunnstral]

Individual reads, that doesn't necessarily mean I think the bottom 3 are scum together

Fire, why are you ruling out meuh + gorilla completely?

[Rhyme and Reason]

individual is fine, I'm not interested in team takes particularly

thanks

~Rhyme

[gorilla]

okay, everyone whose name isn't Bell or Kovu, full readslist of all remaining players (you do not need to include us or Bell) next time you're in thread please

~Rhyme

kovu
gammagooey
meuh
fey
fire
dunnstral

[gorilla]

Are there any reasons for fire!town aside from the hood having a lot of posts?

~Rhyme

No, and for the record I think his posts around marci are a bad look, and if dunn is scum his associatives are pretty bad there as well. I can summarize it for you if you want?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Meuh

There is no world whatsoever in which she is town. None. I will stake the game on this.

okay, everyone whose name isn't Bell or Kovu, full readslist of all remaining players (you do not need to include us or Bell) next time you're in thread please

~Rhyme

kovu
gammagooey
meuh
fey
fire
dunnstral

Interesting progression

[Dunnstral]

Are there any reasons for fire!town aside from the hood having a lot of posts?

~Rhyme

Meta

[Dunnstral]

Kovu is also Meta

[Kovu]

If he had claimed to have guarded anyone but Val I would have asked why - him bging anyone else could theoretically come from town trying to block a kill on conf. town but would have needed a damn good reason to do it from gorilla over protecting the investigative role, and the thought process behind that might have been useful. "I protected Val but was roleblocked" doesn't have anywhere else to go from there except setup speculation which isn't really what I want to get into yet.
Now that everyone's shown up at least once I think we should mass-claim at this point and make sure the assumptions we're making at the moment (that the only remaining PR claims are gorilla+Fey+Bell) are right.

So what do you think about the roleblocker point? like, why would scum wait till now to roleblock someone? and you say you don't want to get into setup spec, yet at the same time.. this game is over and town loses if we lim town and invictus shoot town, so you don't want to get into spec yet? if not now then when? like, the time is over to just sit here and coast by, we have like 5 days to come up with a solid pool scum is in, we can't just keep throwing darts at a board hoping 1 hits, so me reading this and seeing "I don't wanna get into that yet" like, if not now, then when? post game? after we have everyone's roles?

The lazy answer is 'usually there's a deepwolf', who through either effort or bussing or both, has put in the work to carry their team to victory if everyone else on the scumteam dies, and nobody else except you and fire really fit that - both of you have put enough effort into the game and pressured marci enough that everyone's reactions to both of ya'll have been "yeah that's fine" or better for the entire game and I'd be surprised if anyone claims to have targeted one of you two with an invictus shot since n2.

The slightly less lazy answer I already mentioned a piece of earlier - in a game where town get twice as many eliminations as mafia do kills, mafia need to have an actual plan to make it through the game, and generally they're aware enough of how they're perceived and the game-state to make one that doesn't suck. Unless you somehow get 4 Enchants on a scumteam, the plan is never "let's ALL lurk and hammer randomly and hope we win that way", and for a game like this there's going to be a Plan A Day 1 for "Ideally we can push these townies" and later a Plan B for "scum 1 gets/got elim'd early by elim/Invictus" and even later a plan C for "scum 2 gets a major wagon on them today" and etc etc. My gut is that you fit that best yesterday with the marci push d2 from you, that I think would be reasonable for you-scum to expect wouldn't go anywhere and just get some distancing in given your complaints about people not playing the game and not following you, but frankly that's more gut and paranoia than an actual conviction - your play yesterday was erratic but the only part I actually find scummy there was your brief push on me for voting Enchant early game+me posting from my personal PT, which I think could reasonably come from town. Fire also makes sense as a deepwolf as *the reasonable scum*, particularly after yesterday, in that he helped push marci early but also tried to convince me of both Lavar-scum D1 and Cakez possibly being scum with marci yesterday with decent but wrong reasonings and not really budging to consider my POV much on either.
Nobody else I think feels like they came out of the marci wagon with what could be a plan to get to endgame.

So, you're suggesting people need to point their invictus shot at "me or fire" now? like, we are very different people who have been playing this game very differently, just waving your hand in our direction feels exactly like "ehhh people should have more paranoia over there!!!" like, your "lazy answer" is just like, "statistically speaking..." like, wow, statistically speaking, Kovu has never rolled maf, so it's more likely kovu flipped maf here. it's something that's not at all related to the game. and you're categorizing fire and I as the same person? like.. that's what is REALLY bothering me. fire and I are NOT the same, and you're making like no effort to distinguish us from one another? just "they're both doing this..."

Yeah, I'm SURE maf has a plan, and their plan is literally never TO lurk, it's just something that happens, and judging by how this game has gone, I don think it's more likely majority of scum are lurking, I mean, we're just had town wagon after town wagon, and not listening to literally ANYONE with a counterpoint.. I've yelled since day 2 that Cakez was town, and then day 3 like all day that's the only direction people wanted to go?? now, I think it's much more likely town were the vocal ones yelling to get cakez. there's a solid pool of people that haven't really commited to reads this game, and that's where I believe maf has been hanging out. Also, not a fan of bashing enchant here, enchant is great, brings the entertainment! I mean, Dunn and Meuh seem to fit your mold of "scum set up to push these people from the start of the game" so if that's the case, and those 2 are town, then who does that leave for maf? you gorilla fey fire. You think my marci push was scum agenda planned from the start of the game? Cakez SRed marci, fire said something, I sent it. and there seemed to be great hesitation jumping on that marci wagon. no one wanted to interact with me AT ALL there.. it was literally not a bus. marci made a garbage comparison, I looked up her ISO, it was scummy, I got validation I might be right, and I laid the cards on the table. You wanna tell me marci was my partner and our plan all game was to bus marci there by marci using a scum game I was busy durring/afk, where MARCI WAS MY SCUM PARTNER... and we're scum again in this game, and that's the plan for me bussing marci? why don't I jump on the marci wagon day 1 then if the plan was always to bus marci?

I don't like this "kovu could be maf" like, it's not backed by ANYTHING game related here, and rooted more in like all those textbook lines people have, like, you're just "everyone TRs Kovu... we need to widen this pool of people that scum are in!! make the pool as WIDE as possible!!! like, at this point in the game, shouldn't you be trying to make that pool as narrow as possible? so if I'm scum, fire is scum, WHO IS TOWN??

Why is your "case" on fire 1 sentence? when I'd argue I'm a whole lot townier than fire in here, like fire has legit wanted cakez dead all game, only backed off cause I was fighting so hard for cakez.. that's not sus to you? but "kovu had this ellaborate plan to bus marci" is sus... so I found us a mafia.. and then that makes me maf.. ok, love the logic here.

So if you are so convinced I'm maf (cause arguably you sr me over fire based on that GIANT paragraph, with most going at me, and fire only getting a sentence...) who is town? like, you're over there trying to make everyone suspicious of EVERYONE.. so who do you TR outside RR and Bell?

[Fey]

Meh.

I think Gamma and Gorilla are probably mafia. The former is actually I think the only mafia on the D1 Dwlee wagon compared to the main wagon having like 2 mafia on it, Gorilla off wagon voted from Marci to Lavar and then Lavar died. Also the night action stuff. IDK the last one.

[Fey]

Vote Count 1.9

FLAVOR

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He sweats nervously, remembering that the Gigafactory hasn't even been built yet. Probably the government's fault.

"I first thought of the Cybertruck while playing Superman 64 and wishing I was in one of the cars. As you can see, behind me is our latest revision with the "Cybertank" tread modification. So stay on the lookout you January 6ers, you might get up to Capitol Hill yet!"

Laughter erupts and the crowd is enamored. Quick to seize the chance, Elon speaks.

"Here's another thing to get excited for: I have a special surprise for you today! Can I get a volunteer from the audience?"

Player	Votes
LavarManos (11)	gorilla (790), Lukewarm (796), fireisredsir (800), Val89 (803), Meuh (822), Dwlee99 (953), Datisi (962), Bell (1014), Dunnstral (1090), VP Baltar (1123), Enchant (1134)
Dwlee99 (5)	Kovu (1009), Fey (1011), Lady Lambdadelta (1013), Gammagooey (1022), SirCakez (1034)
Datisi (2)	LavarManos (950), marcistar (1116)
Not Voting (2)	Malakittens (130), Rhyme and Reason (964)

With 20 players alive, it takes 11 votes to eliminate.

An elimination has been achieved! Day 1 is over, stand by for resolution.

Spoiler: Postcount Tracker

Player	Daystart postcount	Reserves
Bell	0	10
Fey	0	10
fireisredsir	0	10
Lady Lambdadelta	0	10
Malakittens	0	10
Lukewarm	0	10
Dunnstral	0	10
Rhyme and Reason	0	10
Meuh	0	10
Val89	0	10
marcistar	0	10
Dwlee99	0	10
Gammagooey	0	10
Kovu	0	10
VP Baltar	0	10
Datisi	0	10
LavarManos	0	10
Enchant	0	10
SirCakez	0	10
gorilla	0	10

Posts are capped at 125 posts per slot per dayphase. Please see the Ruleset and FAQ for more information and tips on tracking your postcount.

^ Like two VCS before this Marci was at 7 and then Gorilla switched and the votes on Lavar piled up. So mafia probably trying to save marci.

[Fey]

Actually going further if mafia had to pile on to save marci that’s meh for Dunn and Fire.

[Fey]

Because like looking at that VC it’s like. Mostly flipped town. Marci in her own world. And then Kovu (I think is town) me (I know I’m town) and Gamma (meh but possibly town in this world).

[Fey]

Oh yeah Meuh too.

[Fey]

VOTE: Gorilla

[Kovu]

For the record, NO ONE ends day early*** we don't want any wild speed hammers here

[fireisredsir]

I currently have my Invictus pointed squarely at Gamma and have had him in my solve since yesterday so... weird team concept.

you've pushed meuh hard. meuh and gorilla have pushed each other hard. gamma has pushed dunn hard. dunn has pushed gorilla kinda hard and offered to vig him with luke. you and gamma have pushed each other recently. meuh has pushed dunn a bit recently.

literally every possible team has someone bussing someone. that isn't even remotely surprising at this stage of the game with this narrow of a poe.

you 100% know better than this. this is such a snap reaction, zero level defense. i don't get it

[Fey]

I kinda forgot Meuh existed and you just seem angy I said you didn’t look good.

[Fey]

Like I think the sort of weird condescending disappointed tone is just like. “What.”

[Meuh]

Hmm yeah the Marci wagon is interesting

marcistar
(1)
Gammagooey (497)

marcistar
(7)
Gammagooey (497), gorilla (701), VP Baltar (702), Datisi (703), fireisredsir (713), SirCakez (717), LavarManos (775)

marcistar
(3)
Gammagooey (497), Datisi (703), SirCakez (717)

(and then no Marci votes on the next count)

Pedit: Ope yes that's me!

Gamma stayed on Marci alone for a while and idk what exactly it means
It's noteworthy that the order of people jumping off of the wagon is this. (Might be slightly inaccurate but I can't be bothered to dig into people's ISOs for a single vote)
Gorilla (790), VPB (798), Fire (800)
then
Lavar (950), Datisi (962) Gamma 1022, Cakez 1034

If there were people in charge of dismantling that wagon, they're Gorilla and Fire.