Weird Dreams Mafia I [Gone]

[Porkens]

I’m guessing that Drew forced MT into the nightmare…

In any case I still think Drew is town.

Clone - oh gross.

[imaginality]

I also disagree with labelling them as fencesitting, I think wrt her post about me is just mech talk and not rly relevant to alignments so I don't think you should be trying to draw an alignment out of those, and the other one feels like townie trying to figure out why a player is behaving a certain way, it's a hard thing to do. I think it just shows thought process and it's another weird post to be scumreading a player for.

I guess 112 is not so bad, the "this doesn't really mean much anyway" just pinged me because I'm wary when players post stuff that goes nowhere as it's an easy way to look like you're trying without actually doing anything. But you're right that it's mech talk.

268 though, still seems like a classic way of trying to lure others to start a push on me without Meg wanting to get their hands dirty themselves. If someone bites Meg can easily join the wagon later if they want to and if no one bites then they can just slide to a townlean on me.

And it's not me picking on those two posts in isolation (except in a literal sense of 'isolation' since I'd been isoing a few different players and when I isoed Meg those posts pinged me so I commented on them) since in my very next sentence in the same post I picked up on (what I see as) an additional point against Meg.

[Enchant]

I am simple person

Someone ignores me i don't care

VOTE: imaginality

[imaginality]

In either way I'd like to hear your thoughts on the rest of the game some more

Considering 596 already contained some thoughts on the rest of the game, I think you asking for me this feels more like there's a "go look elsewhere and stop focusing on me" motivation to the request.

That said, to indulge you: MorningTweet and Dragon are still my main townreads. Gimli can go in my town bucket too. And I like 407 to 409 from Kyoko. Plus I townlean Porkens as mentioned in 596.
Ranger can go in my townleans too, not least because she has doubts about me which I feel like is normal for my D1 play.

I've cooled a bit on Enchant compared to earlier.
Also because Kawaii's 133 and 253 give me vibes of a possible Enchant-Kawaii team and I could see TemporalLich sharing an alignment with them too possibly. Also I get a vibe from their iso, not sure how to put into words but feels a bit self-conscious? And there are little things too like how they hurt Enchant (quoting SaveTheDragons' townread) in 236 but didn't hurt SaveTheDragons himself until a while later.

So my suspects pool at the moment is:
TemporalLich, you (Meg), Kawaii, Enchant, Clone.

Actually I might just VOTE: KawaiiKame

HURT: imaginality, MorningTweet*, DragonEater, Porkens, Gimli, Ranger
*I know it doesn't matter with MorningTweet now but think we should still vote her (or not, if you don't trust her) to make people's views of her more transparent for rereads.

[imaginality]

Oh Empathice can go in the suspect pool too but is more mild suspicion compared to those others.

[Korina]

Morning Tweet has been forcibly confirmed to Run The Nightmare tonight! VC to reflect this, and a normal VC later tonight.

Any additional votes cast on MT will not count, and any unvotes for MT will not count.

@mod: does that refer to just the votes for Nightmare or to the votes for the D1 elimination also?

Specifically Nightmare.

[Enchant]

Yeah i am not unvoting.

[Korina]

VC 1.16

Doctor Drew (4):

Botanical Rat, DragonEater70, Empathice, TemporalLich

Porkens (2):

Save the Dragons, Ranger

Gimli (2):

Korina, Clone

DragonEater70 (1):

Doctor Drew

imaginality (1):

Enchant

Botanical Rat (1):

Flea The Magician

Ranger (1):

Porkens

Clone (1):

Gimli

KawaiiKame (2):

MegAzumarill, imaginality

MegAzumarill (1):

TemporalLich (0):

Save The Dragons (0):

Flea The Magician (0):

Enchant (0):

Morning Tweet (0):

Empathice (0):

Kyoko Kirigiri (0):

Not Voting (3):

KawaiiKame, Kyoko Kirigiri, Morning Tweet

With

17

known votes, it takes

9

of them to achieve a majority.

Deadline is in:

(expired on 2023-03-22 16:20:00)

Moderator Notes:

- Please let me know if there are any errors in any VCs. These are hard to make, and I am prone to errors as a result.
- biancospino of Botanical Rat is V/LA until Monday.
- Porkens replaces Nono.

Nightmare

Kyoko Kirigi is voting for:

Kyoko Kirigiri (+), Flea the Magician (+)

Enchant is voting for:

Enchant (1)

Save the Dragons is voting for:

Save the Dragons (3), Enchant (4), Gimli (3), Botanical Rat (3)

Doctor Drew is voting for:

Gimli (+), MegAzumarill (+), Botanical Rat (+)

KawaiiKame is voting for:

Botanical Rat (x), Empathice (x), Kyoko Kirigiri (+), Ranger (+), Save the Dragons (+), TemporalLich (+), KawaiiKame (x)

Flea The Magician is voting for:

Flea The Magician (x), Gimli (x), Save The Dragons (+), Kyoko Kirigiri (x), TemporalLich (+)

TemporalLich is voting for:

Save the Dragons (x), KawaiiKame (x), Gimli (x), Ranger (x), Morning Tweet (+), DragonEater70 (+) || Doctor Drew (-)

Porkens is voting for:

Doctor Drew (+), TemporalLich (+), Morning Tweet (+)

Gimli is voting for:

Kyoko Kirigiri (+), Morning Tweet (+), DragonEater70 (+), TemporalLich (+), Gimli (+)

DragonEater70 is voting for:

TemporalLich (x), Kyoko Kirigiri (x), Morning Tweet (x), Gimli (+), DragoEater70 (x), Empathice (x), Ranger (x) || KawaiiKame (-)

Empathice is voting for:

Kyoko Kirigiri (+), imaginality (+), Morning Tweet (+), DragonEater70 (+), Botanical Rat (+), KawaiiKame (+), TemporalLich (+), Empathice (+)

Ranger is voting for:

Doctor Drew (x), Botanical Rat (x), TemporalLich (x), DragonEater70 (x), Ranger (x), Kyoko Kirigiri (+), Save the Dragons (x)

---

MegAzumarill is voting for:

MegAzumarill (x), Porkens (+), Ranger (+), DragonEater70 (+)

Morning Tweet is voting for:

Morning Tweet (+), DragonEater70 (!), TemporalLich (x), Gimli (x), Doctor Drew (x), Kyoko Kirigiri (x), Porkens (+)

imgainality is voting for:

imaginality (x), Morning Tweet (!), DragonEater70 (x), Porkens (+), Gimli (+), Ranger (+) || Enchant (-)

Those Confirming Morning Tweet:

imaginality, TemporalLich, Porkens, Gimli, Ranger, Empathice, Morning Tweet, Faceless Jury Member #1, Faceless Jury Member #2

Current tallies are:

Confirmed:

Morning Tweet

8 Votes:

TemporalLich, DragonEater70, Kyoko Kirigiri, Gimli

7 Votes:

6 Votes:

Ranger

5 Votes:

Save The Dragons, Botanical Rat

4 Votes:

3 Votes:

Doctor Drew, Empathice, KawaiiKame, Porkens

2 Votes:

Flea the Magician, MegAzumarill, Enchant, imaginality

1 Vote:

With

17

votes present, it takes

9

of them to ensure someone runs the nightmare.

At day end, Morning Tweet is guaranteed to Run The Nightmare.

From this point forwards, any votes or unvotes for Morning Tweet related to the Nightmare will be ignored.

I have double-checked all votes, this VC is the most accurate one to date. Please let me know if there is an error in it.

You may now reference my key, since I figured out how to make it work. A "+" means this player gained a vote, a "x" means this player remained neutral in number of votes, and a "-" means this player lost a vote. The double lines show who this player unvoted last. This effects VC 1.10 and onwards.

Pronoun Key

Korina - They/Them
Maruchan - She/Her
DragonEater70 - He/Him
Porkens - He/Him
Clone - He/Him
Save The Dragons - He/Him
Botanical Rat - They/Them || He/She
Radical Rat - They/Them
biancospino - He/She
Gimli - He/Him
Ranger - She/Her
Flea The Magician - Fae/Faer
KawaiiKame - No preference.
MegAzumarill - No preference.
Doctor Drew - He/Him
TemporalLich - No preference.
Morning Tweet - She/Her
Enchant - No preference.
Empathice - He/They
imaginality - He/They
Kyoko Kirigiri - She/Her

[MegAzumarill]

@Korina

Imaginality should be voting Kame not me

[TemporalLich]

I'm thinking Enchant could be scum, and 652 is a very weird push and also looks like distancing

imaginality on the other hand is starting to look towny, but Enchant really does appear to be distancing from imaginality and imaginality's read progression on Enchant feels strange and unprompted ("I've cooled a bit on Enchant compared to earlier." apparently is enough to drop from nightmare to PoE?)

at least I came back after a prod lul
VOTE:
Vote Gimli

holy OMGUS... that shows a dire lack of effort... and after you say effort could be scummy and lack of effort could be towny...

[TemporalLich]

VOTE: imaginality

yeah... that read progression confirms a imaginality and Enchant associative... they are likely co-aligned

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

prod dodge

real life got wierd so

@mod please vla me till thursday morning

[Botanical Rat]

Catching up. For now I've just skimmed from where I left and I'll do a quick take of what pinged me, I'll do some ISOs perhaps later.

About Clone.

Spoiler: His ISO

thought I had missed something for a minute, im not one to get notifications, anywhere

lets do this

VOTE: Vote: Dr. Drew

still don't trust you especially not with those eyes

I was saying effort itself was slightly towny

effort can be scum, lack of effort can be towny. depends how you see that effort or lack of

at least I came back after a prod lul
VOTE:
Vote Gimli

Coming back just to prodge

is

gross and my gut would indeed direct me to find this overtly scummy, however that's not what I find most incriminating. Now, he was Town in greentexts and that's it for meta, so ymmv on a metaread, but; there I confess that I was wrongly scumreading his slot, but for things he actually said. I had the impression that he was putting some effort in reacting to accusations levied toward him, which isn't what's happening here. What's happening here is he responded to a direct accusation by lashing out a vote bearing no conviction, much like he just did not care.

Some other random thoughts, mostly about Porkens/Ranger

Ranger’s posts reek scum. The posting method they are following is super easy to do as scum.

Weirdly, I get very strong scum pings of your posts being precisely this.

I don't disagree with Ranger that Porkens is being somewhat of an hypocrite here. What I do disagree with is this brand of hypocrisy being on a vacuum +scum, the opposite in fact. I'd expect scum to be aware enough of what they're basing their false accusations on to be more likely not fail this blatantly at veering clear of getting caught doing the same thing.

[...]

This particular hypocrisy is very open and indicates a lack of self-consciousness that I find to be towny/TWTBAW.

Here. I assume Empath was trying to say the same thing I'm saying. Any sr of Porkens based chiefly on that hypocrisy is bad.

I don't ~think~ I'm being disingenuous but I suppose it's a possibility.

I literally laid out two examples.

Clinging to OMGUS when my read on you has nothing to do with your read on me is disingenuous. I

couldn't

have had a read on you prior to your posts because your slot had no posts. Your very first post was scumreading me.

Quoting a--spoiled, titled appropriately to mark its ooc nature--post and stating it was an overreaction/overdefensive when it was marked as not game related is explicitly disingenuous.

Beyond those, stating my style is easy for scum to do is also disingenuous, because as plenty have noted: I've a long track record establishing my playstyle.

bolding

mine. I strongly disagree that it is actively disingenuous. I'm of the opinion that everything posted in-thread, discounting rl stuff like V/LAs and whatnot, is game related, otherwise there wouldn't be a reason to post it in the game. That said, I do wonder why exactly things got so fixated on the "disingenuity" allegation. Confront:

I don't ~think~ I'm

being

disingenuous but I suppose it's a possibility.

Doesn’t “disingenuous” refer to my intent?

Now I'm going to do a semantic argument, but bear with me. Here Porkens is saying they concede they may

be

disingenuous (note the verb. Not "come off as", or "appear", but "be"),

and

they say that they believe the word "disingenous" to refer to intent. Which is not a thing that globally makes sense, since surely Porkens would know what their intent

was

.
Here what it looks to me; Porkens got a composite accusation. Debating one's own tone is fruitless, and they couldn't very well navigate the hypocrisy charge since they realized they just got caught up on that. So they tried to railroad toward the disingenuity allegation, attempting to be conciliating on it while at the same time trying to brush off the more damaging shades of it, those about intent.
VOTE: Porkens


A nightmare vote shall wait actually doing some ISOs. Which will probably mean after some sleep since I'm tired.


(Also, just a note,

“XYZ is towny, abc is scummy”

Quote quote quote

Meta meta

Self meta

Wall wall wall

Solve solve solve

Y’all need to take a break and a shower. Bunch of sweaty try-hards.

Jkjkjk!

I feel like if I had special glasses I could see through the miasma and reveal the two-three scum just floating off in the corners and the one or two doggy paddling furiously to stay afloat in this sea of “solving.”


Sigh lemme iso drew

pedit: when you make a low effort post then start personally attacking the entire playerlist I have nothing to believe other than openwolfing

I do actually concur with Porkens that talking about personal attacks for this is a bit emotionally charged. I can maybe see Porkens' post being hostile if I squint, but I must confess that seeing accusations of personal attacks, which to me would imply a nefarious extra-game intent of the person behind the slot, being levied so easily does make me a little uneasy)

[TemporalLich]

clone definitely is scummy indeed

however with such low activity my confidence on a clone scumread is low (clone could start being towny out of nowhere, who knows)

as for Porkens, I still think I see a town mindset (though a town mindset that is disingenuous is worth a strong scumread!)

[Porkens]

I definitely don’t know my own intent sometimes. That may sound weird to you but it’s just how I roll.

[Ranger]

That's exactly why I SR DD though: they SOUND solvey, perhaps, but have they done anything at all to solve anything? Really not.

Perhaps my memory is faulty. DD's posts have felt like they were genuinely solving to me, but it's possible I was giving too much credit. I'll review when able to.

Interested what people think about the possible Imaginality signaling.

I find it best not to comment on what I may or may not have seen from imaginality. I feel sharing my thoughts would be anti-town.

As for you, I regret to inform you I couldn't get an alignment read out of 587.

Loosely, MegAzumarill's posts inspire a sense of ambivalence, with a slight lean towards scum.

[Ranger]

606 from Doctor Drew is ambivalent to me. I still feel 614 loosely is town tho. I also like 619.

607 from Morning Tweet feels overblown to me.

613 is more ambivalence.

That Ranger thinks Porken's actions are hurting town's chance of winning.

Loosely, yes.
It also encompasses scummy playstyles. A playstyle which looks scum regardless of alignment is +scum; pro-scum actions are +scum regardless of alignment.

meg is null leaning town for effort... I think

Bad take.

{DragonEater70}
{Doctor Drew, Botanical Rat, TemporalLich}
{KawaiiKame, Kyoko Kirigiri, Gimli}
{Flea The Magician, Save The Dragons}
{Empathice}
{imaginality, Enchant}
{Clone}
{Morning Tweet, MegAzumarill}
{Porkens}

Loosely still holds as of 25.

[Ranger]

imaginality's 631 tips him to slightly town. Not for the post specifically, as much as general feelings combined off of prior thoughts tipping the scale in the direction of imaginality being +town, ever so slightly.

at least I came back after a prod lul

Actual

instance of potential "too scummy to be scum" by the way, but while I recognize the potential for Clone to be town not caring, I still think the action warrants being called what it is: +scum.

[Ranger]

Ranger can go in my townleans too, not least because she has doubts about me which I feel like is normal for my D1 play.

Last time I doubted you, I was scum tho?

Now I'm going to do a semantic argument, but bear with me. Here Porkens is saying they concede they may

be

disingenuous (note the verb. Not "come off as", or "appear", but "be"),

and

they say that they believe the word "disingenous" to refer to intent. Which is not a thing that globally makes sense, since surely Porkens would know what their intent

was

.
Here what it looks to me; Porkens got a composite accusation. Debating one's own tone is fruitless, and they couldn't very well navigate the hypocrisy charge since they realized they just got caught up on that. So they tried to railroad toward the disingenuity allegation, attempting to be conciliating on it while at the same time trying to brush off the more damaging shades of it, those about intent.
VOTE: Porkens

I'm disappointed in myself for having missed this and I am locktowning you for having noticed it where I did not. (I'm already voting Porkens but would be joining now from this.)

{DragonEater70, Botanical Rat}
{Doctor Drew, TemporalLich}
{KawaiiKame, Kyoko Kirigiri, Gimli}
{Flea The Magician, Save The Dragons}
{Empathice, imaginality}
{Enchant}
{Clone, Morning Tweet, MegAzumarill}
{Porkens}

[TemporalLich]

I definitely don’t know my own intent sometimes. That may sound weird to you but it’s just how I roll.

and with that non-defense of a defense Porkens is now null leaning scum

[TemporalLich]

as for meg, another ISO skim tells me meg is extremely good at simply having town consensus as their only opinion... this is worth scumreading Meg over, as fake effort is actually not towny

[Porkens]

I think I’m just being honest.

[Porkens]

as for meg, another ISO skim tells me meg is extremely good at simply having town consensus as their only opinion... this is worth scumreading Meg over, as fake effort is actually not towny

Heartily support this analysis of the data bears it out

[DragonEater70]

High chance it's not MT ability.

I actually think it's a StD ability since there are two faceless guys nightmaring MT and StD is not on the votecount for nightmares IIRC

[DragonEater70]

Nvm StD IS on the VC. One sec.