Mafia 2301: Angels and Demons (Game Over)

[demona]

hmhmhm

so,

what do we think the bastard elements may be?

[demona]

VOTE: demona

Real vote btw.

yea? and why do you think that's scummy?

speculation is fun for me and i think there's a decent chance the scums have more information than i do

also frustrating that every game has to start with this and not just people like, talking to me,

but alas

[demona]

speculation is fun for me and i think there's a decent chance the scums have more information than i do

it's like, yeah maybe i don't really know how to sort between wild speculation and players hiding information or between players simply ignoring the question,

but eh, it certainly doesn't hurt, and once again, it's fun

[demona]

e

like why do you think biancospino chose to refer to you as a cult leader?

do you think that is a reference to another game? which seems possible to me but i do not have the information to make that judgment,

or just random? which would be odd to me

or do you think it is because she was influenced by the faust quotes possibly into thinking there may be a cult type of mechanic like 'deal with the devil' type thing?

or something else?

[demona]

It is site meta that I always role cult leader in a bastard game, assuming it is a jokey vote since this is, ya know....rvs.

And in a bastard game the mechanics can get all wonky, but as always scum is slightly more informed and would be highly motivated to get out ahead of the town as far as possible in regards to mechanics.

Not too mention doing a bit of rolefishing.

see, i was unaware of this! but now i know

? yes scums are likely more informed about the mechanics i agree i have played a few bastard games before and moderated others but uh, town also motivated to figure out the mechanics, or at least, this town

<-

is,

shrug

and what would you have me do right now if not speculating about the mechanics? like you seem to think that is anti-town, which i don't really understand, but then so what should i be doing?

[demona]

like i don't really see the benefit of us playing this game like it's not bastard and then just being like

!!! oh i am surprised by this development!!!

and also rvs boring

[demona]

Whoever joins the Demona wagon with me will get recruited over night.

sigh it doesn't feel like you are actually trying to sort me here just feels like a binary 'mech spec is scummy!' but i can't really say towms have never taken a similar approach to me before

it's just frustrating if you're town because like, you can just talk to me ya know, as i said before, as always there are definitely better ways of sorting me than 'demona is a scums!', i am willing to share my thought process regarding anything i post and i am present here and

and instead you just seemingly want to maintain the scumread just to have it, even now encouraging others, without like, sorting me engaging me et cetera

like if you're town here you're simply scumreading my approach to the game, how my brain works and such, the bastard nature of the game engages me, that's a large part of why i signed up, and so forth

and if you're not town you just see something you can plausibly call scummy repeatedly because you are portraying it in like a 'anyone who cares about the mechanics or encourages other to speculate is a scums' way, which isn't true

and i don't really have anyway of determining which of the two it is for you because you're just like, 'she's a scums! wagon wagon!'

[demona]

what you want people to talk to you about?

about my thought process regarding my posts and such, like if someone has a problem with them, because otherwise it just becomes me being pushed and then the person pushing saying i am 'overly defensive' or something like that because i do not know how to sort the person pushing other than to continue to engage them and then that is portrayed as me only caring about reads on me and so forth and so on

[demona]

? yes scums are likely more informed about the mechanics i agree i have played a few bastard games before and moderated others but uh, town also motivated to figure out the mechanics, or at least, this town

Mech spec is good and all, but how do you suggest we should go on about figuring the mechs on page 1? There is nothing to go on about, so any guess rn will be either garbage; or informed by one's pm, which we shouldn't incentive to be outed just because

we don't necessarily have to figure it out, i think there's benefit in theorizing and speculating and i think we should give incentive for the possibly informed by one's role pm speculation, because i think the way a player would most likely be informed by their pm is if they are a scums, as i said before, as i do not have information from my pm about what may be bastard about the game

and it's not like we were given nothing to go off of, there are the faust quotes like i said before

Let me dare to throw those gates open,
That other men go creeping by!
Now’s the time, to prove through action
Man’s dignity may rise divinely high

"I’d rather like the crowd to enjoy it,
Since they live and let live, truly.
The stage is set, the boards complete,
And they await our festivity."

could be a potential deal with the devil type thing

and there's the 'battle for your soul' thing from the promotional materials (signup queue post) which could mean any number of things

like in theory actions we took in the game could even determine our alignments i guess though this one seems less likely to me

[demona]

but you haven't posted any thought process yet

so why would you be angry if people don't start game talking to you about something that doesn't exist yet?

do you usually start games talking about mechanics?

because i wasn't asked about it? that's what i meant by 'talk to me' instead of just vote for me, shrug,

i am not angry, i just become frustrated, because i don't know what it is players want from me and it feels like i often get scumread for existing or for being me

and yes, i very often start games talking about mechanics, especially bastard games, but most games really, can provide examples i guess, gimme a second to find

[demona]

somewhat recent-ish bastard games i have played in

i designed this setup in 2019 as andrée
achromatic calamity as anahit
slaughter hour as ulyana
radio buzz as rousseau
silent star royalty as team rocket queen

[demona]

[demona]

we don't necessarily have to figure it out, i think there's benefit in theorizing and speculating and i think we should give incentive for the possibly informed by one's role pm speculation, because i think the way a player would most likely be informed by their pm is if they are a scums, as i said before,

as i do not have information from my pm about what may be bastard about the game

and it's not like we were given nothing to go off of, there are the faust quotes like i said before

Let me dare to throw those gates open,
That other men go creeping by!
Now’s the time, to prove through action
Man’s dignity may rise divinely high

"I’d rather like the crowd to enjoy it,
Since they live and let live, truly.
The stage is set, the boards complete,
And they await our festivity."

could be a potential deal with the devil type thing

and there's the 'battle for your soul' thing from the promotional materials (signup queue post) which could mean any number of things

like in theory actions we took in the game could even determine our alignments i guess though this one seems less likely to me

See, that's the sort of thing that ought not be said willy-nilly. It's not much but if you're town there's really no reason to broadcast that information to the scum

I guess. There's also the fact that town is blue, which is reminescent of Conception (and I guess it would make sense that

Angels

and

Demons

be different nontown factions or something)

That would be very amusing but it's so outlandish I can't not wonder how it is that you found it a thought worth mentioning

but there's a sample pm anyway? i guess i don't see how my saying so is possibly detrimental, and i think towm benefits more from additional information than the scums anyway,

yes this also seems possible to me, that there are separate angel and demon factions but in an 11 player game it becomes hard to find room for them all, at least without making it very difficult for town,

i was thinking about the possible meanings of 'battle for your soul' and that was one of the first that came to mind because of how souls are traditional weighed from potential source materials, like actions on earth > actions in game et cetera

[demona]

but you haven't posted any thought process yet

so why would you be angry if people don't start game talking to you about something that doesn't exist yet?

do you usually start games talking about mechanics?

because i wasn't asked about it? that's what i meant by 'talk to me' instead of just vote for me, shrug,

i am not angry, i just become frustrated, because i don't know what it is players want from me and it feels like i often get scumread for existing or for being me

and yes, i very often start games talking about mechanics, especially bastard games, but most games really, can provide examples i guess, gimme a second to find

why would anyone ask you about your thought process on page 1 of the game?

what would you have thought about even?

can you share a bit of what you think you could have been questioned about?

because doctor drew voted for me, thus if doctor drew is town he probably thought that my encouraging others to speculate about the mechanics was scummy, but instead of asking me about my thought process regarding that, like why i thought that might be a good idea and such, what i thought the potential benefits were and such, why i might take that approach to the game, he simply voted me, and then encouraged others to vote, and now others are voting me as well, some without any interaction whatsoever, others like biancospino are at least engaging

like i have thought about plenty of things here i guess i don't understand the question?

i could have been questioned about my approach to the game, i could have been questioned about my speculation of the potential bastard mechanics, i could have been questioned about my feelings towards the way others have interacted with me, like it just feels like, like i know i am town here and doctor drew's approach to me gives no room for him to see that because it's just binary 'this behaviour is scummy' when it isn't i know for a fact that it isn't and it is frustrating for me because i recently replaced into a newbie game as inutile and was met with the same sort of approach, two players, both of whom were town it turned out, pushing me for how i play/my approach to the game without trying to sort me in any beneficial way, or so that is how it felt to me, so like i can give benefit of the doubt i know players take this approach to me sometimes as town, but i also know that i cannot really sort between whether or not it is coming from a towm or a scums perspective when it is just, 'demona is a scums! no reason to actually sort it just is!' ya know

[demona]

I don't negotiate with terrorists.

But, ya know, you could not lose your mind over a vote on the third post of the game and make it all about yourself. You can easily just ignore ol tunnely asshole Drew and forward the game how you see fit.

Or you can try to climb up the ladder of who I will recruit tonight.

i am not a terrorist and i do not feel as though i am losing my mind about this, i just do not know how to address things and like

like i know your read of me is wrong and i do not have anyway to sort you outside of that so far and if you are town, or imaginality or biancospino, it seems important to me for you to see that because i know your views of the game are also wrong, and i would also prefer to get all of this out of the way up front because it just leads to more and more time wasted for all of you on maybe demona is a scums! if not addressed and such

but i will try to maybe take a step back and maybe focus on other things as to not 'make it all about myself' and whatnot, like i even knew this would be the criticism of my play here i have done this song and dance before, i just don't know how to avoid it and also correct everyone's views of the games i guess

sorry

[demona]

eh everyone pivot off demona they are handeling the pressure very well more than i expected

time TO PIVOT TO VOTE: imaginality FOR TOWNREADING ME DAY 1 THATS SCUM AF GOGOGOGOGO

Grandpa doesn't want to be recruited apparently.

And Demona, you phished for info....that is scummy behavior.

And I would argue that getting super defensive off of one vote on page 1 is not handling pressure well.....not to mention the ate.

i disagree in principle that that is scummy behaviour as can be seen from literally any game i have ever played in

and yesyes i know see:

then the person pushing saying i am 'overly defensive' or something like that because i do not know how to sort the person pushing other than to continue to engage them and then that is portrayed as me only caring about reads on me and so forth and so on

i could have easily scripted your side of this interaction

[demona]

ngl drew, demona reminds me of me when im town lol . they might be new and them defending a vote and u pushing them is obviously going to get them to be defensive. think about it from their perspective, u vote them, they question ur vote and then they just joke and play around then 3 people like question them the same thing. this jsut looks like newb!town defense. ik they might be doing this as scum but i highly doubt it especially if they are a newer person.

well, uh, i am not new, or at least not particularly new, i have played 60ish games on site

[demona]

oh thats awkward. are u an alt?

for the most part i often make alts for each game i play in or at least for flavoured games i try to match the flavour in some way but for this game i already had an 'angela' account, my main, and a 'demona' account which perfectly fit the theme, so!

pedit: there are also lots of others accounts, but i think chavela is the main one i know i have played with others (meuh and greeting) from this game on

[demona]

Demona and grandpa mo have way to many posts

VOTE: Demona

...

anyway that is e-2 +(

[demona]

I’m sorry you made like 10 posts in response of Drew’s vote it’s to much

and you think that that is more likely to come from a scums? or you just think i've crossed some invisible line and thus must be voted?

but also, why do you feel grandpamo has too many posts? like imaginality commented on grandpamo not having posted which led me to clicking around games and it seems that grandpamo recently had a scum game with 800+ posts and much of the discourse at the end of that game seemed to revolve around scums spamming and such so i get why imaginality might have mentioned that even though it was so early in the game that like, grandpamo could have simply not seen the gamestart yet,

but now 7 posts later you're saying grandpamo has also crossed the line into 'too many posts' and i dunno like it doesn't seem impossible to me that grandpamo might have been defending me to earn some towny points but it certainly doesn't really feel like grandpamo is just posting to post to me,

[demona]

Yes grandpa also posted to much

is it just the number to you? like the content is irrelevant?

[demona]

also if someone could unvote so i could enjoy my run and such without having to worry about this i would appreciate it

like even if you do think this is somehow scum indicative of me or something we're like five hours into a two week day

[demona]

I was starting to feel bad that I was targeting a newbie just trying to get their feet wet and I should allow them to settle in, but nope not the case apparently.

You are E-2, your only concern here seems like self preservation. Do you really think you will suddenly get two lol votes on you?

it is not my only concern but it is certainly a concern, why shouldn't it be?

and it doesn't take two lol votes if i am not going to be here, which shortly i am not, it takes one more vote of 'just want doctor drew to recruit me lol' or 'she posts too much' or whatever and then a lol hammer, which happens somewhat frequently, much more frequently than i would like, especially in this case,

[demona]

and scums can very easily provide either of those votes with a built in defense because i think it's unlikely all of you are scums right like that wouldn't really be a game if y'all were so

[demona]

I was starting to feel bad that I was targeting a newbie just trying to get their feet wet and I should allow them to settle in, but nope not the case apparently.

also still doesn't feel like you are at all considering my alignment

like i am not a newbie it is fairly unlikely i am ever going to 'settle in' since i have not up to this point

but why would you only feel bad if i were a newbie? like are you not even willing to consider at any point that i may be town who you're targeting? or are you saying you would do not feel bad for targeting me even though i am town because i am not a newbie and it is my own fault or something that you're pushing me for who i am as a player?

[demona]

I was starting to feel bad that I was targeting a newbie just trying to get their feet wet and I should allow them to settle in, but nope not the case apparently.

also still doesn't feel like you are at all considering my alignment

like i am not a newbie it is fairly unlikely i am ever going to 'settle in' since i have not up to this point

but why would you only feel bad if i were a newbie? like are you not even willing to consider at any point that i may be town who you're targeting? or are you saying you would do not feel bad for targeting me even though i am town because i am not a newbie and it is my own fault or something that you're pushing me for who i am as a player?

I could believe a newbie playing in a bastard game making that post, even as town.

I have a hard time believing that someone who has been around the block, especially in wackier setups, would make that post.

well i did and i have made very similar posts before and i very likely will again

like if you're town it seems likely to me that we have a fundamental disagreement about the usefulness of information to town and the merits of speculating about bastard setups, like in the royalty and slaughter hour games throughout you can even see the applications of those speculation and how they could be beneficial to town at play

i guess i just do not understand why from your perspective that fundamental disagreement means i must be a scums and not just a towm who views things differently than you do,

[demona]

Listen, I think you were trying to get extra information out of people to help you along, imo scum would be the ones to benefit the most out of that, ergo....I think you are scum.

But as Granpa said this is going in circles, my vote will stay on you, but in the interest of moving things along a bit.....

What are your opinions on the votes/voters on you after me? I know you touched on it a little, but curious on how serious or jokey you think they are?

yes, that would be the fundamental disagreement - i think scums are likely to already have additional information and thus towns would benefit more from theorizing and! scums could potentially be found through how they approached discussions as well as in theory we might be able to tell the difference between informed speculation and uninformed speculation though in practice i dunno how good i might be at that particular aspect

biancospino felt like, from the way she was questioning also that she may have thought it might be more beneficial to scums as well, or that she saw that that is what you may have been saying, dunno how serious altogether - there was also the cult bit included but at the very least felt like she may have been exploring beyond that

imaginality i dunno, like thinking about the grandpamo line in his post makes it seem possible that his vote was an extension of that logic, like grandpamo isn’t posting a lot but demona seems to be! which like, ehh, still seems an odd time to make the grandpamo read to me since could have simply not seen thread yet so possible trying to plant that thought amongst others but also possibly just unrelated thoughts in same post and also joking cult thing again

like it makes it harder to weigh these things for me when players might just be thinking ‘well i think wagons are beneficial to sorting so i joined’ or things like that because you’re encouraging them to join, shrug

and then whemestar i am not even sure if whemestar is saying they just object to anyone posting large amounts or if they’re saying it’s scummy - it seems possible to me that whemestar is following up on potential imaginality logic or reading between the lines to seeing there is a potential angle to be made of posting a lot = scum but also could be ‘i think all games should be geriatric’ thus my attempted questioning of but, !

[demona]

@grandpamo

i don’t want to copy paste the whole thing on mobile but what about it feels fabricated? like that’s how i am viewing those posts right now and there isn’t a lot to go off of

unless you just think it contrasts stylistically with my earlier posts which would likely just be because of phone and such

also don’t understand how you think I am ‘copying’ you - i am not very familiar with how you play not even sure i have read the entirety of a game you were in and unless you are an alt i have been playing here longer than you have and i don’t feel as though i have made any conscious adjustments to my play here

[demona]

@grandpamo

i mean, i am frustrated by being scumread again for being me, that’s literally all it feels like from my perspective, like ‘this behaviour is scummy’ even if it is demonstrably true of me always

but could i have just not posted my frustrations? yes, when the game no longer feels like a game i generally shut down and stop playing, and if the game was upsetting me to the extent that my ate was an unavoidable outcome I wouldn’t post, like i have no interest in becoming a game ruining presence

and of course the purpose of all my posts is to be townread, i have said plenty of times i think one of the very most important things to do as town, if not the very most important, is to not be miseliminated

but i understand that that is also among scums goals so like i am not asking people to not sort me and such i am just encouraging everyone to do what they can to actually sort me because i am town here and the things i am being scumread for are personality/playstyle things

but i would like for them to do so upfront because it wastes alot of time otherwise and also distracts me from the rest of the game like i get that’s a failing on my part but i dunno how to fix it

[demona]

I am going to try and backread all these posts when I’m on computer

dont its gonna waste ur time. its literally just drew pushing demona because they are being oddly interogative early in the game and AtE after pressured and going back in circles

Tbf, I just voted them and then Jesus took the wheel of Demona vomiting words all over the screen.

I am just trying to suss out who I want to recruit.

sigh

sorry i guess

feels like an unfair way to approach me but, eh

[demona]

like i even think it’s probably more likely to come from town!me by a significant margin but is scum!me aware of how town!me plays? yes of course

[demona]

I am going to try and backread all these posts when I’m on computer

dont its gonna waste ur time. its literally just drew pushing demona because they are being oddly interogative early in the game and AtE after pressured and going back in circles

Tbf, I just voted them and then Jesus took the wheel of Demona vomiting words all over the screen.

I am just trying to suss out who I want to recruit.

sigh

sorry i guess

feels like an unfair way to approach me but, eh

Well I was trying to be a bit funny there, I get my humor can be an acquired taste lol.

If you are town though, and this is just a play style issue(I can definitely relate to that), then eventually people will see this.

And if I caused you not to have fun playing this game, I do apologize.....I just want to play the game and have some fun as well, but I don't want to at the detriment of another player(unless you are in fact scum, then all bets are off lol).

yeah i know (as long as i am not hammered while relegated to periods of absence and phone posting for the rest of the real life day) it almost always shines through even in the newbie game i was talking about earlier i managed to get myself nightkilled night 2 i am just impatient and want everyone to see sooner because then if town they can get to actually solving the game, and i can get to actually solving the game as well

and most of my frustrations are with myself i know i do not express things well but i am not angry with you in anyway regardless of your alignment I just, i’m just not the player anyone wants me to be and i don’t know how to be any different like the things that interest me about this game are the theme (and i have previously moderated a bastardized version of purgatory myself) and how everything is possible in a bastard game and without that it’s just mafia ya know, but there are plenty of mafia things to go off of here as well and as always i will do my best and i know your goal isn’t to simply stop the game from being enjoyable for me, like i don’t really think anyone here is that spiteful or at least i hope not

and i know the solution to my being scumread for my approach and such is to only play like mountainous games or like trust fall, and i have done a good bit of that as well but it isn’t so exciting for me

[demona]

@grandpamo

i mean, i am frustrated by being scumread again for being me, that’s literally all it feels like from my perspective, like ‘this behaviour is scummy’ even if it is demonstrably true of me always

but could i have just not posted my frustrations? yes, when the game no longer feels like a game i generally shut down and stop playing, and if the game was upsetting me to the extent that my ate was an unavoidable outcome I wouldn’t post, like i have no interest in becoming a game ruining presence

and of course the purpose of all my posts is to be townread, i have said plenty of times i think one of the very most important things to do as town, if not the very most important, is to not be miseliminated

but i understand that that is also among scums goals so like i am not asking people to not sort me and such i am just encouraging everyone to do what they can to actually sort me because i am town here and the things i am being scumread for are personality/playstyle things

but i would like for them to do so upfront because it wastes alot of time otherwise and also distracts me from the rest of the game like i get that’s a failing on my part but i dunno how to fix it

ur not answering my question. my question was a yes or no question. please answer it concisely. and also does this mean u admit that when drew voted u, u got frustrated? is that how your playstyle is, getting frustrated when people come at u? or are u getting frustrated when people come at u because ur being ur interogative/ate person.

should have put ‘not concise’ on my bingo card as well,

your question is whether i am ‘playing up’ the ate, yes? which i feel i answered, like i am to some extent if you want to view it that way, i am certainly capable of making different posts than the ones i have made so far so that being the content i have provided is by choice to some extent, minus the time constraints for me actually making posts

but it isn’t fake,

and yes i was frustrated by doctor drew voting for me instead of trying to determine if what was pinging him was coming from scum or just from someone who thinks differently than he does, and also maybe that it then also cuts off the discussion i would have rather had and replaces it with ‘demona is a scums! vote for it!’ which is, uh, less enjoyable and less productive yeah

i generally do not get frustrated with those scumreading me if i can see how they got there and understand why they are weighing it the way they are or! if i am reasonably sure they are a scums

but is it like, uncommon for me to get frustrated? nah

[demona]

It isn't the responsibility of the person voting you to explain every detail of why.

And let's be honest, you posted something and then I immediately voted you, isn't that explanation enough?

i wasn’t asking you to explain why you voted me, i assumed it was either because you thought the discussion I wanted to have was pro-scum or you thought it was an easy stance for you to take, i was asking you to explain why you were weighing it the way you were, why you were discounting the possibility that i was doing so as town, so i could maybe see if you were more likely doing so as town or scum,

[demona]

and! if you’re town so that you would be more likely to see that i am town

as your approach to me seemingly cuts off that option altogether

[demona]

can we hammer bianco

they are either negative utility 3rd party or scum

like im certain

mmm

you're really going to have to convince that biancospino is not town if you want me to hammer

like i don't even think it's a bad wagon or anything but my first instinct here is definitely to advocate for someone to unvote again because i am far from certain and i am not really sure how you are so sure

game feels altogether weird to me like i am missing something because so many players are just voting and little else and now everyone like, comfortable? with e-1 here,

and i guess i do not see why and most of the potential reasons i can think of for why are like, somewhat unlikely to be town reasons

[demona]

you're really going to have to convince that biancospino is not town if you want me to hammer

*convince me

[demona]

56 links with what I've been thinking so far, so Phir can be town

i would maybe lean towards agreeing with this yeah

it feels like, like a near carbon copy of phir's initial read of me/someone pushing me from a previous game if phir is who i think they are, which could easily be faked as a scums of course but, like, based on that game i do not really think scum!phir would think i would become like, more elimable as the game went on, nor would i think that scum!phir would think that i would be pushed over there without them providing additional pressure or at least leaving themself the option of possibly hammering,

so it is like, if a scums phir would have likely been thinking it is beneficial to them for me to remain in the game, which seems maybe not so likely to me,

[demona]

So what's Doctor Drew's alignment?

sososo like the push on me felt like, very standard paint by numbers

like

vote me
don't engage to not allow me to be town
then double down citing my reaction to being voted
et cetera

which comes from both towm and scums unfortunately but like, i really dunno how likely it is for a scums to basically say 'calm down if you're town everyone will see that' to me

like, yeah i dunno that strikes me as kinda towny, and also felt like,

true and helpful yeah

but then just voting biancospino because 'i like biancospino wagons' and not unvoting when whemestar sheeped that vote to e-1 is pretty ??? to me or even !!!

[demona]

Why is everybody voting for

biancospino

?

this is mostly why i feel like i am playing a different game from everyone else,

it's like, grandpamo voting and saying it's a serious vote without explanation, then multiple players saying it is an okay wagon/going to sheep, then doctor drew voting because he likes wagons on biancospino? even though he had just questioned the wagon himself and was not given a response that could have potential convinced him or anything, and then whemestar votes and says whemestar is sheeping doctor drew? and doctor drew seems to be just fine with that, and then grandpamo now encouraging hammer even though there's been no explanation provided

Spoiler:

anyways i think this counts for a serious vote right here

VOTE: Biancospino

Goooood evening everyone! Let's catch scum

Have skimmed the game throughout the day and I really don't feel like reading back on it in general, felt kind of blegh
Completely disinterested in a demona wagon though, leaning town on her at the moment (I generally click with her mentality thus far and the frustration feels genuine, though frustration is the easiest emotion to fake as scum) 56 links with what I've been thinking so far, so Phir can be town
I like the vote in 81 and GrandpaMo in general, so I'll sheep
VOTE: Biancospino

bianco seems like a fine wagon atm

VOTE: bianco

Bianco is a better wagon than myko I reckon

And that seems like a bit of a stretch to call Gmo and Demona connected.

It wasn't like a super serious read, just something for me to look back on and think about if either ever flip scum

The mod is a liar, they must go.

Interesting you mentioned connections thought, Imaginalty's last post kinda seemed like THEY could be connected to Demona if one of them were to flip scum

Actually, and you know? Fuck it.....I always enjoy a Bianco wagon......let's giddyup

VOTE: Bianco

VOTE: Bianco

I’m sheeping you

[demona]

??????

[demona]

isn't that hammer?

[demona]

???

Is Greeting scummy?

no??

but we have two weeks

and you just asked for a claim

and then didn't give any time for biancospino to claim?

sigh i really do not understand what is happening here

[demona]

oh nevermind

[demona]

lol sorry i for some reason though you voted biancospino

my brain doesn't work

[demona]

And made a very weird soft-claim about a post restriction, which, quite frankly, sounds made up.

seems somewhat likely to be made up to me as well but towns also make up things like post restrictions

like it seems possible to me that grandpamo would make up a post restriction as a scums as well, though i would think maybe as scums grandpamo would be more likely to make that post restriction evident from the way he was posting

and also! i guess there was the somewhat focus from grandpamo on 'towns make things up too it's okay' when interacting with me, which as scums could have been planting similar logic for future use but eh, once again could also be town who simply believes that,

because, well, towns do sometimes make things up

[demona]

???

Is Greeting scummy?

also while i do not think greeting is scummy i guess i do not see why grandpamo is scummy either

but wagons etc

[demona]

because, well, towns do sometimes make things up

and based on my limited interactions, grandpamo does seem more like than some, or maybe even most to make up a post restriction as town to me

of course not as likely as, say, hectic

but more likely than most yeah

[demona]

???

Is Greeting scummy?

also while i do not think greeting is scummy i guess i do not see why grandpamo is scummy either

but wagons etc

Mo can be town. But. The urge to hammer, then s wantsme want biancoto claim for theyre in range.

I might vote between imaginality and wheme for now. Grreeting total null, can swing both ways.

VOTE: Whemestar

Are you on board with a biancospino hammer?

i assume grandpamo probably has some sort of familiarity with biancospino that i do not, but yeah i would like it to be explained and such,

certainly not without biancospino returning, and even then i would rather just continue to weigh like i do not get the rush, nor why there's such certainly

like i questioned the same thing but i dunno if it makes grandpamo more likely to be a scums

[demona]

The second one is the claim itself. What is the purpose of claiming this, and on top of that claiming it so early in Day 1? It is not verifiable and ultimately leaves more questions than answers.

hmm, well if it is true the purpose is likely simply to inform the town, though i am not sure why it would be a partial claim if truthful, like you'd probably either just claim the whole thing or wait to claim i would think

if not truthful and towm, i'd assume the purpose is some combination of potentially wifoming the scums and maybe grandpamo thinks it would be fun

if not truthful and a scums, i'd assume the purpose is to cause confusion by generating discussion about something irrelevant

like it seems somewhat unlikely scum!grandpamo would think a post restriction would be something to make up to be townread

[demona]

The second one is the claim itself. What is the purpose of claiming this, and on top of that claiming it so early in Day 1? It is not verifiable and ultimately leaves more questions than answers.

hmm, well if it is true the purpose is likely simply to inform the town, though i am not sure why it would be a partial claim if truthful, like you'd probably either just claim the whole thing or wait to claim i would think

if not truthful and towm, i'd assume the purpose is some combination of potentially wifoming the scums and maybe grandpamo thinks it would be fun

if not truthful and a scums, i'd assume the purpose is to cause confusion by generating discussion about something irrelevant

like it seems somewhat unlikely scum!grandpamo would think a post restriction would be something to make up to be townread

i guess could also be truthful and not towm in theory and then the purpose would be like, to be 'helpful' by sharing information i guess?

[demona]

The one thing I wonder about imaginality is about the cat scrathc vote just when bianco was put at-e1
There's just that fade away. Along with cat scratch being okay with it. Neither urges wheme or drew and unvote.


Imag who votes cat is ok with bianco being put at hammer range with cat there?
Mo then urges the hammer? Scum in wheme/cat/imag/mo/drew if bianco green?

just quoting this to remind myself to look into later when i can sit down with the big magnifying glass

[demona]

These poems are sus

all faust quotes i think unless i missed one

[demona]

if you think bianco is more townier than me

okay but what if...

you explained to your legions of adoring fans why biancospino is not so towny to you, as a treat

[demona]

Im happy with towncore.

so i assume from your posts that the towncore is, uh, me and you? but who are the others you are happy with?

[demona]

anyways my post restriction is coming up so ima be coasting

mm i feel like i could spend years iterating on an angels and demons bastard theme game and never have one single version with a post restriction like 'can only make 50 posts in a two week long day' or anything remotely similar to that

and sure mykonian and i are surely dissimilar in many ways

but still so so hard for me to see

and but so also thankyou for explanation re:biancospino

[demona]

Also, stop being scared of E-1 people

i am going to continue to be scared of e-1 i simply do not see the benefit

especially! because you have expressed the desire for a moratorium on setup stuff

and, uh, other than potential claim what do we get out of putting someone to e-1 right now

i don't get it like it still just seems like inviting potential disaster for ??? payoff to me

[demona]

like maybe it'd encourage whemestar to walk us through logic regarding posts and such? but i am kinda hoping that is going to happen soon anyway and am willing to give benefit of doubt regarding pc thing and such like when at a computer i assume whemestar will post beyond the scope of what they have so far,

and it's not like there are no other avenues for us to pursue in the meantime,

[demona]

With your take that bianco soft-pushed demona before hopping off, are you saying demona is bianco's scumbuddy?

alsoalso i am pretty sure this is not what grandpamo was saying there,

i think he's simply saying that the act of pushing me but not hard committing in anyway and then abandoning it altogether when the wagon no longer seemed viable was scummy,

like seeing the pressure from doctor drew, biancospino may have felt it was an opportunity, and then when it was no longer an opportunity biancospino abandoned

which maybe i could see, yeah, though it also seems quite possible that by the time biancospino returned to the thread she felt it was apparent i was town and didn't feel the need to comment upon

also maybe worth noting that i had a similar feeling about grandpamo at one point, like when grandpamo said i was likely newb!town and then when told i was not new he put me back to null and it kinda felt like maybe he was hoping for someone else to then join the wagon, but idk,

hard committing to me being town under conditions that were already known to be false due to previous posts in the thread and then walking it back is kinda hm yeah

pedit: i appreciate the frequency of votecounts (and faust)!

[demona]

Demona what are your thoughts on the person I am voting

i still think the timing of imaginality's read of grandpamo when voting me was kinda odd but i think his readslist was mostly fine even though joining the push on you is like, easy and kinda eh, but maybe consistent with his earlier post regarding joining my wagon, like 'wagons are good' sort of logic;

what are your thoughts on the person you are voting? like beyond like, 'likely a scums!' or whatever

[demona]

I think this post pinged me and made me scum read imagin

oh hm, is it like, the formatting? like the post does kinda seem 'constructed' to me in a way but i think readslists often feel like that to me

[demona]

Why scared of e-1

well now i've read ahead a bit and am even more scared of e-1 because post restriction stuff maybe more believable if there's more than one and that could possibly explain why alot of players are seemingly wanting the day to end kinda quickly and such like before anyone reaches post restriction or something, but, mm, i don't see why town would think it super beneficial to eliminate someone before the 'something happens' but i could see why scums might want a 'free' elimination before

but before that it was mostly that it's just risky with little payoff

like multiple people are saying 'well only a scums would hammer' and things like that but like

i have seen towm players mistakenly hammer multiple times and! i have seen towms impulsively think, this is good! i think x is a scums, therefore i will hammer right now! and that's pretty much disaster situation yeah, like suddenly players will feel like they are seeing the matrix even if it conflicts with how they've been viewing the game up until that point and it is often a fleeting thing and yeah

and i really don't think the day should end right now i value the time we have i don't think e-1 gives much benefit here especially for the players opposed to setup discussion because that is all that is potentially gained like claim stuff and i don't think we're super likely to like 'catch a scums' by giving them a chance to hammer unless! that scums feels it is still worth it to do so, which i think most players in this game are pretty competent so i don't think a scums would terribly misjudge that sort of thing, so if they hammered it would likely be of some benefit to them as well

and! i guess there's also possibly bastard elements that could incentivize lol hammer as well

i just don't get why everyone wants to give that opportunity here

[demona]

[demona]

I think grandpa is town

Why?

what do you (greeting) think grandpamo means when he says that i am town but also an inconvenience?

demona is town but they are starting to be an inconvenience.

[demona]

I think grandpa is town

Why?

what do you (greeting) think grandpamo means when he says that i am town but also an inconvenience?

demona is town but they are starting to be an inconvenience.

like in what way do you think grandpamo finds me to be an inconvenience here? or how might i be inconveniencing grandpamo?

sorry hopefully you see what i am asking

[demona]

Trying to silence someone seems like a bad idea, I'd argue even more so if you suspect him. In fact, wasting his posts like this is basically handing him a free pass to lurk no? Which would be a complete loss of readability

grandpamo said 'something big happens' not that he can no longer post once his posts are exhausted

i guess i wonder what are town reasons you can think of for grandpamo seemingly wanting that to occur later in the game, after an elimination even (an elimination grandpamo currently wants to be on you), that grandpamo wouldn't just simply reveal?

[demona]

Hey,

Cat Scratch Fever

, what's your read on

biancospino

?

Hey @greeting, is there a reason you're coninstently bolding all usernames?

i do not know why greeting does this but i can say that greeting generally does this it is not specific to this game if you are wondering if that is a post restriction

[demona]

These post restrictions are a bitch.

though i suppose this may not be doctor drew saying he might also have a post restriction, though that was certainly my first interpretation, hm, guess i would like some clarity here

i really don't think mykonian made the solution 'vote the mod'

but i can also just vote mykonian i suppose and leave it there until next votecount to see if it shows up

VOTE: mykonian

[demona]

I have read his ISO. My conclusion is that he most likely just dislikes your playstyle (or the way you phrase your posts), because he considers it to be similar to his. Posts 61, 63 and 171 as well as the one you quoted seem to be pointing towards that.

I don't really see this train of thought as relevant or alignment indicative, care to explain why this interests you?

yes, i get the similarity thing though i do not see how it would be an inconvenience to grandpamo, if anything i would think that grandpamo finding us to be similar to eachother would then in theory find me to be easier to read not more difficult, and if grandpamo is town he has correctly read me as town here so it seems unlikely to me that that would be the inconvenience he is referring to

to me, it seems somewhat likely grandpamo means how i actively question things like the post restriction, and how if there are town reasons for the things he is doing that i am possibly interfering with letting that play out the way he wants it to,

and it maybe seems a little more likely to me that towm would express that sort of thing than a scums

also my asking you wasn't my thinking it was particularly alignment indicative to grandpamo i thought your answer might be alignment indicative for you

[demona]

alsoalso i like having others perspectives on the things i am thinking about at any given time

[demona]

These post restrictions are a bitch.

though i suppose this may not be doctor drew saying he might also have a post restriction, though that was certainly my first interpretation, hm, guess i would like some clarity here

i really don't think mykonian made the solution 'vote the mod'

but i can also just vote mykonian i suppose and leave it there until next votecount to see if it shows up

VOTE: mykonian

if something negative happens to me as a result of this, it seems kinda unlikely to me that it's a coincidence that doctor drew continued to go back to 'let's just vote the mod', so!

just in case

[demona]

Eh, Phir specifically said that he'd want to silence Mo, so what is the big happening exactly is mostly irrelevant to Phir's state of mind.
And I'm sure there are plenty of reason one can concoct; just off the top of my head, a Doomed Innocent Shifter would work. Maybe even just a Doomed Townie that don't want to claim for some reason.

fair enough, i don't think i was thinking about your statement in the proper context there, with regards to phir's post

a doomed innocent shifter would win with the scums if they do not claim while they're alive, yeah? so if grandpamo was one and unwilling to press the button and be revealed then he'd also be trying to lead a miselimination here, yes?

but yeah i also thought it might be possible that grandpamo may be unable to claim but when i think about reasons he would not want to claim if he is able to claim, it is more difficult to find town ones

Also, @Demona, I suspect Mo may not like your professed aversion for e-1s. Mo likely wants this day to end fast after all

why would town!grandpamo want that though? like that's what i am having the most trouble with, and i do not think it is just grandpamo, doctor drew has now also referenced a potential post restriction and has also voted players and pushed on very little while we have plenty of time, so it seems potentially consistent that they do just want the day to end and the something big to happen later but like,

mmm yeah like i am just a town here and it is hard for me to see whyyy

[demona]

surprisingly not... I just want demona to stop demona to stop cluttering the thread with questions that don't progress the game nor help anyone. I checked their past games they don't do this a lot so why this game?

they help me, shrug, and also i don't really think this is necessarily true of my past games or at least not of my recent past games though i don't really think it's cluttering the thread, but i do have more time in the mornings right now than usual because on leave for the summer and also! if others were posting more my presence would be less comparatively but it feels like alot of players are absent

and that then compounds itself because i do not have a reason to want to minimise my presence here and i am town, so! i wonder why that is the state of the game and am anxious about it (and just in general but that's not game relevant)

[demona]

right now, I doubt anyone is reading your entirety of posts, you will eventually get scrumrwad, then you will eventually get into this whole AtE thing, and people will just back off from u because of ur AtE and not having the will to engage with an active player like u .

it seems possible to me that some players are not reading the entirety of my posts, though i do not think it's too much for me to ask for them to read them this game, and if anyone has any trouble following them or anything i am certainly willing to answer any questions regarding,

if you want to see what my posts might look like if i didn't want others to read them look at these posts from day one of silent star lunacy when i was a werewolf (as drusilla obviously)

1011
1313

however, uh, i do not think your description there is necessarily how this game will play out, like it has certainly happened, the slaughter hour game i linked earlier is a good example of that, but often i am fairly apparently town to everyone and then i am nightkilled as town, or scums leave me alive and i play as more or less an innocent child

also link me to a game where you are doing this -- posting long walls, asking self and interrogative questions and playing up to some AtE.

here is my iso from my most recent completed game, a newbie i replaced into:

newbie 2121 inutile iso

which was played under the same conditions as this game for me

[demona]

I forgot to clarify that this is how usually people read u when they don't initially understand. when u have atleadt ONE person to understand it changes everything for example, me. u either become hard town or hard scum there is no in between. if u are hard town >> it will follow what u told me in ur post u get acted like either innocent child or scum keeps u alive to play with u or u get pushed for not being understood which happened already this game.

if you are scum, same shit will happen as above. this playstyle is GRANDPAMETA

sure fair enough i certainly benefit greatly from players being familiar with me and i often wish for players unfamiliar with me to be patient with me or to try to understand, and i too will try to understand them as well, like i don't think i was too unfair to those pushing me earlier even if i did not express myself well, or at least i tried not to be

and if doctor drew was familiar with me i would think his interaction there with me was pretty towny because i do not think a theoretical scum!doctor drew who was familiar with me would push me like that there because it just makes it more likely everyone will see i am town, but scums unfamiliar with me very often do push me like that because they think 'ah i can believably say this behaviour is scummy!' or even less favourably 'it is weird therefore a scums' like binary logic stuff

but i still think doctor drew saying 'calm down if you're town everyone will see' was maybe kinda towny, and it is also similar to what you're saying about how i play, or maybe rather how i

should

play in your opinion, which maybe you're right but my play isn't some calculated decision i mostly just sit down and type what i am thinking and hit submit lol

anyway, is the 'something big' that's supposedly imminently approaching here like, likely to be negative for town? or just wild and exciting? or is there some way we can manipulate it to be more positive for town? et cetera,

[demona]

have you ever tried using a PT , it will help u organize your thoughts better and have a place for u to place ur thoughts into a thread

i used to almost always use a notes pt! but then it often became an absolute nightmare and i ended up thinking impossible things may be occuring and i became very very consumed by almost certainly not game related things,

so then i tried heavily formatting my notes pts for a while with a section for each player and a section for thoughts about the setup with edit privileges and such

but this posed various problems, and i often found compelling reasons for everyone to be a scums (like the notes pt would somehow fully engage my narrative playing as a mafia brain instead of my solving the game brain and it would make the things impossible to weigh) or! for me to have alot of reasons active players

might

be a scums and few reasons that inactive players

might

be a scums even if the inactive player seemed more likely to be a scums to me and it proved largely unhelpful in helping my actual ability to find the scums

and then i kept asking for one but largely not using it so i stopped and i have had more success doing so without

(though i still often note certain things in random notepads on my laptop or notes on my phone of course)

[demona]

These post restrictions are a bitch.

though i suppose this may not be doctor drew saying he might also have a post restriction, though that was certainly my first interpretation, hm, guess i would like some clarity here

i really don't think mykonian made the solution 'vote the mod'

but i can also just vote mykonian i suppose and leave it there until next votecount to see if it shows up

VOTE: mykonian

if something negative happens to me as a result of this, it seems kinda unlikely to me that it's a coincidence that doctor drew continued to go back to 'let's just vote the mod', so!

just in case

my vote did not show up in the votecount and nothing negative has happened from my doing so (at least thus far) so i think for now we can pretty safely say this is not the solution

[demona]

Was not expecting Safia Nolin but very cool to see!!

+)

Uhm my phir read was a joke haha

When did Wheme even make a Phir read??? I can't for the life of me find one in their ISO

Spoiler:

Okay I haven’t gave this game time sure but that doesn’t make me scum over people who have gave this game time and are scum

Imag? U might be convince me, the sooner the better. Who else? Why?

Why does there have to be others

Why does there have to be others

Uhhhhhhhh cos it's spicier?

You can be others

[demona]

WhemeStar

is obviously a low-effort player, problem is that this might not be AI.

i mean,

sure whemestar's engagement so far might very much not be ai, of course, it also might be ai, or it be indicative of a game related but not necessarily alignment related thing, et cetera et cetera

i guess my question would be... what is your plan for determining which?

though whemestar did ask if anyone had any questions and noone asked anything game related so it's not really like its all on whemestar either

not that i would have really known what to ask that might be helpful

also kinda a little curious how you determined the obviousness of this and how it applies across the board to whemestar since i clicked around on a few games and it seemed like there was potentially more substantial engagement from whemestar at various points,

[demona]

Ohhhhh thanks, that's why I couldn't find it in their ISO

you're welcome

maybe noteworthy that biancospino asked nearly the same question but... probably not

[demona]

I said last line but it'd be more accurate to say the last sentence of Imaginality's post looks good. Gives more reasoning as to why Imaginality would be interested in finding out the restriction and I feel like townies tend to drop little hints of their thought process (like having an idea of what the restriction is) more than scum does. For CSF's it's more kind of generally throwing out questions at Mo with less pointing as to why she'd be curious and none of that extra thought process. (aside from wanting to see if it made sense with his role, but I don't find that bit super compelling) Also, I was looking at these posts in a wider set of CSF posts and they clicked with the rest as looking scummy.

hm, i mostly just wonder what the idea imaginality had in mind was

[demona]

Any questions for me

actually!

was the 'too many posts' thing like, a read?

or just a dislike of the amount of posting/wanting games to be more geriatric?

or did you have some desire for this game specifically to not have players posting alot?

and also when you get a chance the elaboration on the imaginality read you talked about earlier

like to me with the readslist there it is like, do you feel it was too methodical? or that you feel imaginality would not have had enough information to work with to be able to do so reasonably if town?

like i can spend a lot of time filling in the blanks between your posts and the timing of your vote on imaginality and such and try to see if it actually makes sense to me when i do and if it feels okay and such ya know but then when i think about it i realize i would just be feeling okay about the way i have filled in the blanks for you and have no real way to determine if i have done so accurately,

[demona]

And maybe that CSF's question was indeed a bit out of place since multiple people were taken aback by it

how would it mean that cat scratch fever's question was out of place? like it would just mean that cat scratch fever was following the flow of the conversation between phir/whemestar and that you/meuh missed it, and that meuh also missed your question,

at least to me i feel like your question and meuh's question were more 'out of place' than cat scratch fever's, like do you think that conversation between phir/whemestar is a detail a scums would be more likely to zero in on?

[demona]

(i miss things when reading all of the time my point isn't that it's suspicious that the two of you missed things sorry if unclear)

[demona]

since i clicked around on a few games and it seemed like there was potentially more substantial engagement from whemestar at various points,

this is also true of doctor drew, for what it's worth, but could simply be this:

or it be indicative of a game related but not necessarily alignment related thing,

and also doctor drew said he was busy with work and such, so, shrug

[demona]

anyway guess we are waiting on grandpamo return don't like how it's like actively using our time, like if it's a potentially helpful to town thing like he said then why

and especially if post restriction is untrue here that would be pretty ...

[demona]

since i clicked around on a few games and it seemed like there was potentially more substantial engagement from whemestar at various points,

this is also true of doctor drew, for what it's worth,

okay upon further review this may be true of most of the players in the game

[demona]

hi enchant

[demona]

[demona]

but um f all the haters and f all the doubters.

i mean, it is not as though you are actually confirmed right now or even as "confirmed" as one can be in a bastard game

[demona]

And Demona, re: activity here

You post way way more then everyone, that isn't a knock or anything, but not sure why you are using it as a read or a tell.

Plus not sure where you are located, but here in the US it is a holiday weekend so probably will be a bit slow for a few days.

i wasn't really using activity as a read or tell as much as investigating the way players engaged with other games

like greeting was talking about how whemestar is a low effort player and such so i clicked around

and but so then i was like, hm, well there are other players i am largely unfamiliar with in the game and it is kinda unfair that the only one i looked into much was greeting

so i clicked on some of your games and also found that you were engaged in a more narrow way here to me,

and then found others were as well and didn't take much out of the exercise, other than maybe it is something about the game rather than alignment indicative for the players,

though i would still like greeting to answer my questions re: how greeting made that judgment of whemestar and such

[demona]

What if it's all lie

kinda a high effort lie but still possible yeah

[demona]

What if it's all lie

kinda a high effort lie but still possible yeah

maybe unlikely though, am willing to play along for now,

[demona]

I am a

Town Guardian Angel

Thee may asketh me any questions in the entire w'rld and I shall guideth thee and s'rve as a guardian by answ'ring by

true

'r

false

!

there is a means by which you can become confirmed or as confirmed as one can be in a bastard game other than being flipped which you are currently aware of. true/false

you are aligned with the town and solely the town and win with no faction other than the town. true/false

you are in a private topic with doctor drew. true/false

[demona]

- i has't gen'ral inf'rmation on the game. I shall useth this inf'rmation to most wondrous guideth thee as town's guardian angel.

going to think about what this might mean and wait for answers and such, before asking any more questions

it is like, if grandpamo actually has information and this isn't a bit then either he was not given it until after meeting the requirement and therefore could not just give it to town, or! he was barred from giving it to town, the first i guess seems more logical to me,

will think about what that information might be and how to ask about it,

also wonder if grandpamo just resumes playing the game after

[demona]

What if it's all lie

kinda a high effort lie but still possible yeah

maybe unlikely though, am willing to play along for now,

and the like, second statement about like, the parameters for asking questions and such makes me think it probably isn't made up

yeah very unlikely to be made up i think

dunno if truthful in content, like alignment wise and such, but i no longer think it all that likely that grandpamo wholly made it up

[demona]

and it is kinda unfair that the only one i looked into much was greeting

*whemestar, not greeting

[demona]

also wonder if grandpamo just resumes playing the game after

hmm probably not since grandpamo gave a 'final reads' type of post, and thus means of confirmation is probably just being flipped at the end, sigh, should have thought about this more before asking any questions, that's my bad everyone,

[demona]

I am a

Town Guardian Angel

Thee may asketh me any questions in the entire w'rld and I shall guideth thee and s'rve as a guardian by answ'ring by

true

'r

false

!

there is a means by which you can become confirmed or as confirmed as one can be in a bastard game other than being flipped which you are currently aware of. true/false

you are aligned with the town and solely the town and win with no faction other than the town. true/false

you are in a private topic with doctor drew. true/false

i would like to retract the first of these three questions if i am allowed to since you have not yet answered

[demona]

there is a means by which you can become confirmed or as confirmed as one can be in a bastard game other than being flipped which you are currently aware of. true/false

you are aligned with the town and solely the town and win with no faction other than the town. true/false

you are in a private topic with doctor drew. true/false

These art invalid questions as t p'rtains to a statement and not questioneth f'rmat. These art not indirect statements and th'ref're all questions hath asked wilt has't a valid response of true 'r false did indicate by a "?"

Feeleth free to rephrase

wasted question saved by a formatting error i guess lol

okay let's think

also @everyone opinions regarding the second and third questions should i simply reask those?

[demona]

This grandpamo thing seems like a distraction. He isn't confirmed as anything nor does he claim to have any information that we don't

I agree with whoever said that mo phrased his post restriction as a bad thing earlier, but has since changed it to be a good thing. The way he played earlier doesn't jive with his restriction

i think(?) he explicitly claimed to have information that we do not:

- i has't gen'ral inf'rmation on the game. I shall useth this inf'rmation to most wondrous guideth thee as town's guardian angel.

though i am struggling with the language quite a bit

i agree that the way he played earlier is pretty ??? for this restriction and i did question the seemingly evolving nature of the claim,

but like, if it is a distraction then we ask the questions, nothing happens at the end then we decide what to do, right

like not partaking in it probably isn't a viable approach

and the addendum post and the formatting rules and such all seem like, like unlikely to come from a fake post restriction

once again maybe not fully honest regarding alignment and purpose and such but i do not think grandpamo wholly invented the whole thing because why would he have bothered with all of the extraneous bits and how likely is it that he would have thought to give himself a whole bunch of rules he must follow in how he answers

[demona]

like not partaking in it probably isn't a viable approach

actually, hm, could be grandpamo's win condition i guess, to simply get us to ask all of the questions, but even if that is a third party win condition i very highly doubt that it would be an exclusive win condition, like town could still win after i think i do not think third party grandpamo winning by getting us to ask the requisite number of questions would end the game or anything

[demona]

Great.

i assume 'in this thread' would also entail all of the posts grandpamo made before the questions game as well so it's like, could be the neighbour thing or just about anything else grandpamo was untruthful about

[demona]

But if other people want to brainstorm, I'm not gonna crimp your style

i think maybe we should brainstorm the questions yeah

i still kinda want to ask reworded versions of these questions:

you are aligned with the town and solely the town and win with no faction other than the town. true/false

you are in a private topic with doctor drew. true/false

[demona]

also this questions mechanic pretty similar in some ways to silent star 4: yin and yang which i co-moderated with hectic (as pj harvey dent)

[demona]

also this questions mechanic pretty similar in some ways to silent star 4: yin and yang which i co-moderated with hectic (as pj harvey dent)

which in theory grandpamo might have been inspired to create this claim and such from but

but seems maybe more likely mykonian was inspired by it

or just a similar line of thought,

[demona]

i think maybe we should brainstorm the questions yeah

though, mm, do not want to waste too much time with the whole #! so will just ask i guess

[demona]

I am a

Town Guardian Angel

Thee may asketh me any questions in the entire w'rld and I shall guideth thee and s'rve as a guardian by answ'ring by

true

'r

false

!

is it true that you are aligned with the town and solely the town and win with no faction other than the town?

is it true that you are in a private topic with doctor drew?

[demona]

I am a

Town Guardian Angel

Thee may asketh me any questions in the entire w'rld and I shall guideth thee and s'rve as a guardian by answ'ring by

true

'r

false

!

is it true that you are aligned with the town and solely the town and win with no faction other than the town?

is it true that you are in a private topic with doctor drew?

i would like to retract the second question if allowed

[demona]

Did nobody find strange that Mo's rolename is written in

green

given that town is blue in this game

the blue could possibly just be the mod's colour not necessary town's colour though i do not have enough information to make that judgment

still a pretty good catch and consistent with your thinking about the colour earlier

[demona]

I

have you read the game? / do you have thoughts on anything other than grandpamo questions thus far?

[demona]

Wait i was supposed to?

i am asking if you have; i have played with you a number of times previously so it isn't really like an expectation i have of you as much as a hope / maybe you'd surprise me here and! it is not as though it is all that many pages

but if there are other ways you'd like to apply yourself here that is fine too

[demona]

I am just curious are you third party

nope just a town not even a fun one

[demona]

Then why you said you don't have information what color town should have

i didn't? i said i don't have information as to whether or not other factions and such have the same colour, which would mean that it is just the mod's colour,

like i have blue and the sample pm is blue but they're both just the mod's colour and i don't have information beyond that so i can't make that judgment

[demona]

uuuuum

Language barrier i guess

very possible

the blue could possibly just be the mod's colour not necessary town's colour though i do not have enough information to make that judgment

basically i was just saying that it could just be the mod's colour not solely town's colour, that i do not have anyway of determining due to limited access to information

I'd find it strange. I did go check past modded games by mykonian and it is consistent that scum are flipped red and town are flipped blue, the same as the role PMs (here's an example, you can see it's the same thing with other games)

Thou the modkill concern may be a satistying answer.

this makes sense, though even beyond the modkill thing it seems possible to me that grandpamo just defaulted to green because that's how he thinks of the alignments as he is not mykonian, especially if his answer to enchant's question was truthful and the posts are not pre-formatted for him

[demona]

Though in confusion still he seeks his way,
Yet I will lead him to the light one day.
For in the budding sapling the gardener can see
The promise of fruit upon the full-grown tree.

[demona]

Questions left: 19

I anon has't 18 questions hath left

how did we lose a question without you answering a question?

also unsure what exactly you're trying to communicate by quoting the youtube videos i have posted and the francesca woodman photograph but if you're trying to say that the information you have is related to me being 'a demon of the ov'rw'rld' we can simply vote you out here as i am town

i posted stay because the song and video fit the theme, i posted running up that hill because i was to be running shortly thereafter (and i quite like the song), i posted the safia nolin song because i was listening to it at the time, i don't really feel like explaining the logic behind my posting stray italian greyhound because it isn't really game related just how i was feeling at the time but it's another song that i quite like and thought maybe someone else might like it too, i posted angel from my phone because when i checked the game you had just claimed 'guardian angel' and i thought it was fitting and i posted the francesca woodman photograph (from her angel series of photographs, which is incredible for those unfamiliar) because it felt applicable to that passage from faust to me,

also it's kinda odd to me that you would have information about a potential demon faction while claiming the information you have is not about other roles, the mod or mechanics

[demona]

but if you're trying to say that the information you have is related to me being 'a demon of the ov'rw'rld' we can simply vote you out here as i am town

i guess it's also possible that the information you have been given is a moderator lie, but eh

like by that logic it is also possible that i am not the alignment i think i am and it's like, shrug, can't really function under that possibility

will maybe think about how to ask what you're trying to communicate there in a true/false question

but if it's like, a scumread based on my posting videos? then it's ??? and wrong and also ??? like i like sharing music sorry i guess i have done so often throughout my games here isn't specific to this one

and if it's you trying to communicate information you have regarding me it's either you are lying or have been lied to by the moderator or i have been lied to by the moderator

but also possible i am missing the point altogether as it is difficult to decipher

[demona]

hm guess maybe i'll look into the faust stuff and try to reverse engineer the game a bit while i eat breakfast since noone seems to be around

then probably work on questions for grandpamo

[demona]

I’m kind of thinking what is the point of the Town Guardian Angel at this point whatsoever. We know that he was not fully truthful with us in the thread and so I suppose he can be lying about anything.

Maybe it is a distraction after all and we should focus on something else, unless someone has a strategy as to how to approach this.

i mean, yeah but we also know that he isn't in a private topic with doctor drew and referred to doctor drew as a neighbour multiple times, so like, shrug,

like i think it's pretty likely for grandpamo to lie about things and such as any alignment, and i am pretty sure that doctor drew thinks that as well, possibly others also, but i also think the rules he seems to be following and such make it somewhat likely there is some element of truth to it, though i am still confused about us losing a question and what prompted grandpamo's last response, it seems possible it was my quote of mykonian there and thinking about it more could potentially be trying to warn me, thus the potential relevance of the faust stuff, but i am still pretty unsure

and yes, could be lying about anything, could be a distraction, but just ignoring it doesn't really seem like it sorts any of that out?

and it is not as though we cannot also focus on other things, i can multitask, if there's something else you think i should be looking at right now i am happy to do so, and i would certainly read your posts and anyone else's posts about anything else and think about them/comment on them and such, and i agree that the game kinda halting for this is Not Good, but path forward kinda seems through not around to me

so if you think there's something else you should be focusing on, or we should be focusing on, or even i should be focusing on, then focus on it, ask others to focus on it, ask me to focus on it and so forth

[demona]

i mean, yeah but we also know that he isn't in a private topic with doctor drew and referred to doctor drew as a neighbour multiple times, so like, shrug,

i guess unless they are both lying which probably would be scum indicative but would be a very odd approach to this game for partners

[demona]

thus the potential relevance of the faust stuff,

which is very likely to be relevant anyway because when mykonian put the game into queue this was included:

It is about the spiritual battle for your soul.

which is what faust part one is about, or rather, the spiritual battle for faust's soul, so player as faust, or perhaps town as faust,

and the quotes are also from there so the references seem possibly relevant beyond simply flavour yeah

[demona]

(also i cannot help but wonder if other players also have something that happens at 50 posts and that is why so many are hovering under but then it's just doctor drew saying 'you post more than everyone else stop thinking that means anything' once again, so will try to ignore that feeling for now)

[demona]

Prithee asketh me questions. I am eag'r to bid thee all the sooth!

is it true that this post:

Oh no two GranpaMo's.....I am gonna have to recruit the best of the best to counter that.

Also a vote on Bianco, ok now we are getting spicy.

ikr also can u stop like fakeclaiming and rlly claim ur greedy exec role that ur target is demona

was made at least in part due to information you have from your role?

[demona]

Prithee asketh me questions. I am eag'r to bid thee all the sooth!

is it true that you have reason to believe it is beneficial to town for town to vote out a member of town in this elimination?

[demona]

the luminari font is a nice touch

[demona]

I think that's all are big part of Grand trolling and i am not falling for that.

hm, why do you think trolling is more likely than getting us to ask all of the questions being third party win condition? or more likely than finishing this quest has some sort of scum benefit? or more likely than it simply being truthful?

like if it’s just trolling it’s a) alot of work and b) then what? like after the questions are asked then grandpamo just resumes the game? which would be pretty ??? ya know like grandpamo gave like final reads and such

so i wonder how you weighing it to be likely purely trolling

guess it’s odd that this:

A lighteth hast evok'd me from above.

I has't been toldeth to clairfy!

was not evoked by the moderator but it seems possible that someone else told grandpamo to clarify, though i do not know how to make that narrow enough to be one true or false question to ask, like how to determine who it was if not the mod

like you could be right but hmm

[demona]

I don't believe in third party who win just by answering all questions because it's really EASY. It's like Jester, but you actually don't need to do anything to win. Not like you need to do anything as jester but hey.


GrandPa seems to be capable of normal talking without "questions" so what point

true enough though 25 is kinda alot and it might be a limited window for him to do so dunno but anytime anyone isn’t asking any questions he seems to try to get people to ask like there is some motivation for him to do so

??? he hasn’t made any normal talking posts since he ‘ascended’ at 50 posts - all of the normal posts were before

[demona]

GrandPa seems to be capable of normal talking without "questions" so what point

unless you just mean the posts like the one about the videos i have posted which is pretty ??? to me as well

[demona]

right like if it was pure trolling i don’t think there’d be much reason for grandpamo to continue try to get us to play along

[demona]

can someone look at grandpamo’s use of overworld and underworld and see if they can make any sense of it?



or i can when i return home later

[demona]

both players who were voting biancospino moving to whemestar, a wagon that biancospino is also on, without biancospino doing anything towny in the meantime is a pretty big hmm

[demona]

yeah mostly feel like whemestar's posting is pretty nai and i don't much trust the wagon right now

[demona]

And if mo is like a hidden demon or whatever i think it'll sort itself out along the line

right now i kinda think it's maybe most likely that grandpamo is an angel i just dunno if angels are town

[demona]

yeah mostly feel like whemestar's posting is pretty nai and i don't much trust the wagon right now

but also, whemestar, if you're town here just come be town

[demona]

Our goal is to surpass the demons of this game yond is ov'rtaking our kingdom.

As our goal is to ov'rtake the demons of the ov'rw'rld, please be aware!

Prithee holp me to recov'r the und'rw'rld from the h'rr'r and disast'r from demons

okay so okay so okay so

i still wonder if the game has some sort of purgatory-esque system and this would be like, game thread-heaven-hell

though i dunno how much sense that would make since it seems to imply that the demons currently control both the overworld and underworld, and possibly the kingdom

mm, which then makes me think about there possibly being like a demon majority in the game, so if anyone wants to claim demon...

[demona]

guess the faust stuff will have to wait til tomorrow for me to continue looking into, just too tired tonight

[demona]

Anyway gl with that giant force i mean like all we can do today is vote right?

i suppose the 'giant force' could in theory be the post restriction itself and there is a way we could free grandpamo from it, either by asking the required number of questions or by asking the 'correct' question,

[demona]

A giant f'rce is striking me hard. I needeth thy holp.

is it true that you know of a way you can be freed from your post restriction?

[demona]

and i guess i still really do not understand why grandpamo, if truthful here and actually town,

why did grandpamo not just tell us everything he knew about his role up front so we would know what he knew going into the questions

unless the extent of what he knew was 'something big happens at 50 posts' which seems pretty unlikely to me because he also talked about it helping town at one point and said that his post restriction was complicated at another

like it seems quite possible to me if truthful about the post restriction and such that grandpamo was given additional information after reaching 50 posts

but it seems like, like intentionally frustrating that he wasn't open about what he knew before that point if he's town, thus making me feel like he may have been hiding something, which i am having trouble shaking

and he continues to encourage us to engage and my first instinct is certainly to do so but i worry that there's some nefarious outcome yeah

[demona]

e-2 again please do not end the day there is ALot (like 9+ days) of time left and if you think the day should be ended before working through grandpamo stuff please explain why,

and even then, if you believe there is no possible 'good' outcome from working through grandpamo stuff, or that it's unlikely et cetera,

there's still alot of time to use for sorting and such it is hard for me to imagine anyone being sure that whemestar is a scums right now

[demona]

anyway bedtime for me see y'all tomorrow

[demona]

is it true that this:

VOTE: grandpamo

is what you want?

[demona]

UNVOTE:

[demona]

is it true that this:

VOTE: grandpamo

is what you want?

@grandpamo

[demona]

I have escaped

mhmmhm any chance you'd like to walk us through all of that

[demona]

You know, I'm contemplating this. Don't see the town motivation to put on this massive waste of time. I do see the Jester motivation if it's what you're alluding to.

it was yeah

[demona]

I have escaped

mhmmhm any chance you'd like to walk us through all of that

were you freed by the vote or the questions, why didn't you give us whatever information you claim to have before the 'show', do you actually have any information, did you learn anything,

[demona]

I want to scumread biancospino as well but they have been doing well these past few posts...

i... actually thought the same thing,

but nonetheless please with the walking us through like if you want me to follow you're going to have to show me that you're town here and then show me why phir is the most likely non-town

[demona]

it was yeah

I wouldn't fake a whole thing that probably in my head makes me look more town than scum...

I could have just not done all that and played my original playstyle and probably get scumread for it because I am a very versatile player that can transform into a playstyle that can be scumread. I know my own playstyle and multiple people in this game can tell you that.

it felt like, other than to get me to engage i couldn't find a reason for why you made the post re: the videos i posted (which i would now like an explanation for) and with you posting the queen lyrics and such it felt like maybe you were trying to get people to vote for you, either jester or to break the post restriction, though i admittedly did not think about it for very long obviously

[demona]

Because it was all a lie. I was afraid if I continued to play normally in a bastard game that involved Angels and Demons, I would be the first one to die during the night. There was motivation from all over my unconscious mind to do this including wanting to be scumread, wanting to get reactions, wanting to test out faking a whole role to see if it gave any valuable information for either player who either 1. Asked the questions or 2. interacted with each other about the questions. And I learned a lot through it and Phir is my top contender as scum. They are hiding something that they don't want to tell you all. They are afraid. Why do you think they are not pushing me right now? And have always been poking me but never doing anything about it? Because they thought my role was real to eventually reveal what a fraud they are.

eh i mean i can kinda relate to the assumed likelihood of being nightkilled because i feel similarly right now but why is that something to be avoided, like to me it's just solve as much of the game as i possibly can while i'm alive and then it is what it is

like are you just saying you want to continue playing the game indefinitely and thus needed to avoid being nightkilled by... making a big mess of the game?

okay what did you learn about others who asked questions and interacted with eachother about the questions? like you can just omit me from your response here but am interested in the others beyond phir,

is it because phir did not want to ask you any questions? at one point i worried that maybe phir thought you would gain something from being asked, but could in theory have thought you would gain something as a scums,

[demona]

I know you may be mad

also i personally am not mad even if you're town i like the game to be fun

[demona]

Knew it

true you were right yes credit given

but did you learn anything from it?

like what are your takeaways

[demona]

We should stop asking questions it’s dumb

kinda moot now but if there was something else you feel we should be doing, please do that

like i still do not know why you thought imaginality's early readslist was scummy, i do not really know how you feel about those on your wagon beyond imaginality, i don't really know what you're currently thinking about here and such, the possibilities you are considering, how likely you think those possibilities are, et cetera

like i am not asking you to come solve the game in its entirety just show us what you think is important here and why you think it's important

like if you're town just come give town a chance to see like i said before

and if you'd like to solve the game in its entirety that is fine too but show us that process yeah

[demona]

okay what did you learn about others who asked questions and interacted with eachother about the questions? like you can just omit me from your response here but am interested in the others beyond phir,

still interested in this but i will comb through phir iso in the meantime

[demona]

okay what did you learn about others who asked questions and interacted with eachother about the questions? like you can just omit me from your response here but am interested in the others beyond phir,

still interested in this but i will comb through phir iso in the meantime

This statement is also interesting and I guess I feel.sorta combative so lemme tackle it. After mo obvs fakes a role and messes around with town and then reveals they aint special probably, u just taking 'em at face value by going oh yeah ill go thru phir iso. Maybe u think mo town nand maybe im not and thats why but rn I feel town can aid from pressure on csf, bianco maybe like enchant and whatever.

But actually i shoulda let you cook and never made this post. Let's see what your conclusion is....

? i am asking grandpamo to do something for me and grandpamo has also done the work of going post by post through your iso so i am willing to do so as well, as that is what grandpamo is asking of me

like if grandpamo has an agenda for me to do so it will become more apparent from my following in his footsteps and doing as he asked not less,

it taking me kinda forever though i am on post like 146 or something and i disagree with a lot of conclusions he's made so far but, shrug, i guess i don't understand your objection to my doing so

or why you think it'd be odd for me to be willing to do so or whatever

[demona]

BRO U CONTINUE TO SAY IM SCUM AND SHIT BUT U DONT VOTE.ME

VOTE ME RN WHY R U SO SCARED?

please no yell

also pretty sure phir has said multiple times you're probably town with an irrelevant role?

[demona]

Post 125 (votes me),

492

(says that greeting was sus to them but now is town but wasnt they in their towncore in the beginning of the game??? look at post 220)

492 is indeed troubling as I've pointed out earlier; but 220 does not actually put Greeting in the towncore, it sais 'can be town but'. I'd be interested in seeing what Phir has to say on the topic because I actually have strong opinions on what state of mind town!Phir should've had in order to make that post

just gonna skip ahead a bit momentarily (don't worry still working) and say that i think there's a good chance 492 is related to 442 and such regardless of phir's alignment

like phir either townreads meuh or is pretending to and phir as town weighs the inputs of others, which is pretty consistent and evident, or is very good at faking this aspect of their townplay

[demona]

no they haven't . pls look at the iso where I say he has scumread me. its a 35 post iso at that time it shouldn't take u that long. its literally them flip flopping. they literally just said I was sus??

this is like, a handful of posts ago, and there are others, anyway it does take me a long time - for a lot of the posts i then have to reread them in game context and so forth, and i am typing my thoughts before moving on to the next, i do things slowly, shrug, but i am getting there

I'm starting to think you're just a vanilla town

[demona]

Post 125 (votes me),

492

(says that greeting was sus to them but now is town but wasnt they in their towncore in the beginning of the game??? look at post 220)

492 is indeed troubling as I've pointed out earlier; but 220 does not actually put Greeting in the towncore, it sais 'can be town but'. I'd be interested in seeing what Phir has to say on the topic because I actually have strong opinions on what state of mind town!Phir should've had in order to make that post

just gonna skip ahead a bit momentarily (don't worry still working) and say that i think there's a good chance 492 is related to 442 and such regardless of phir's alignment

like phir either townreads meuh or is pretending to and phir as town weighs the inputs of others, which is pretty consistent and evident, or is very good at faking this aspect of their townplay

It's the mega sus part that's shiny. The quote is of Greeting, so I'm assuming

you

means Greeting

could you reword this for me, i am having trouble following

[demona]

I mean my languagehas been crass these past few posts I admit but overall I think simply put im not in the headscpace for drama rn. Sorry mo I was rude but right now ignoring you is my best path forward.

how are yall not seeing this as scum???

i think you should disengage here and i don't think phir disengaging is inherently scummy

[demona]

Spoiler: nest

Post 125 (votes me),

492

(says that greeting was sus to them but now is town but wasnt they in their towncore in the beginning of the game??? look at post 220)

492 is indeed troubling as I've pointed out earlier; but 220 does not actually put Greeting in the towncore, it sais 'can be town but'. I'd be interested in seeing what Phir has to say on the topic because I actually have strong opinions on what state of mind town!Phir should've had in order to make that post

just gonna skip ahead a bit momentarily (don't worry still working) and say that i think there's a good chance 492 is related to 442 and such regardless of phir's alignment

like phir either townreads meuh or is pretending to and phir as town weighs the inputs of others, which is pretty consistent and evident, or is very good at faking this aspect of their townplay

It's the mega sus part that's shiny. The quote is of Greeting, so I'm assuming

you

means Greeting

could you reword this for me, i am having trouble following

I don't see Phir ever having been "mega sus" of Greeting, so that's a weird thing to have to "move on" from

oh as in they never made it clear at any point that they were scumreading or even potentially scumreading greeting, since from posts in the thread it seems they moved greeting from maybe town > town while stating they had been previously suspicious and are now going to ignore those suspicions, hmhmhm, okay, continuing my way through

[demona]

Post 56 just sounds a TMI post in the context that everyone already posted their scum / town reasons for their read on you. Then out of nowhere their RVS is "demona is good" they also push Drew in that post for being too agressive

56 - as i said earlier this post is very similar to phir's initial impression of me and those pushing me from a previous game where phir was town, assuming i have correctly identified alt, and while it seems very possible that would be phir's approach to me as a scums, it also seems somewhat unlikely to me that scum!phir would come to the game, see an e-2 wagon on me and think, i will works towards deflating that wagon, because based on that previous game i really really do not think phir would think i would become an elimination option down the line like that was the best opportunity the scums were going to have to eliminate me and i think a scums familiar with me would have probably thought so as well, so i feel like the tactical move for scum!phir might have been to lay back and see if others would join the push, or if there was anyone townreading me beyond you, like otherwise maybe it's just trying to pocket me and preempting the move towards everyone townreading me which you had already started to some extent i guess and phir would likely feel coming but... yeah like to me that felt like it would be an opportunity for any scums familiar with me to think 'oh maybe we can get rid of demona here and save us all the headache of having to play with her', like even though my reads can be terrible still usually having to grind long days while i am alive and having to interact with me and such,

though the only one who really gave any 'reason' for me to be a scums was doctor drew and maybe(?) whemestar and you gave a reason for me to be town, so, shrug, maybe i am giving too much weight to this, but i also think it's very possible that town!phir simply could feel i was town there based on my interactions up until that point players often do based on similar samples and phir has previously (and you did here as well)

Out of nowhere in post 116 right after responding to a question, they want to make Bianco claim! That early in the game I know they were at E2 or whatever it was -- but that probably means Bianco was a scumwagon or something and Phir was just rolefishing.

116 - i mean, the biancospino wagon was your wagon and you were actively encouraging players to hammer at that time? phir's question doesn't seem all that odd to me and i could easily see myself doing so as town,

Post 125 (votes me),
128 (questions greeting as scum),
130 (talking about spino wagon),
137 (calling me possible town, urge to hammer for spino and questioning to hammer, and voting whemestar),
146 (then questions imag and me scum in a scumpool they create based on spinos flip???),
159 (votes imaginaility),
178 (calls me fake but was def saying I was town earlier - they also say they happy with town core but have not specified anybody lol),
180 (votes me again after pushing them with one post),
181 (questioning CSF),
182 (now questioning me as town???),
220 (u actually question who the towncore is and they say meuh and demona and then question greeting and cat),
221 (continuing to hover over me and questioning about pushing me??? and giving me the option to push them? probably because they are scared and dont actually wanna commit),
223 (questioning wheme as town)
239 (all over the place trying to scumread me.... they are claiming stuff out of context, stuff that dont even make sense? like appeal to authority? what does have to do with anything? they are just conitnuing to be all over the place here and even saying "i will decide how to vote" they just sound like a newbscum tryna push me back and they have nothing so they are pulling shit out of their ass LOL)
243 (questioning me as town once again)
320 (calls me classic scum and votes Cat Scratch Fever) this is probably the biggest red flag lol
464 (says willing to sheep meuh now??? and prob "wheme, bianco or enchant I guess. Maybe Drew as a distant fifth." not even me mentioned other "innocent" behavior as town???

492

(says that greeting was sus to them but now is town but wasnt they in their towncore in the beginning of the game??? look at post 220)

125 - i think phir believes in the power of the vote, regardless of alignment, like 'wagons are good!' stuff,
128 - i think this one is kinda towny, like phir assumed i was questioning phir's vote that was sheeping greeting because i thought greeting was not towny, and i think trying to fill in the blanks like that is +town, though also maybe slightly +partner for greeting as well i think the later stuff makes that less likely,
130, 133 - clearing up my misunderstanding
137 - the first part of this is consistent to me, i think that phir as town puts faith in their townreads, like it's consistent with phir sheeping greeting earlier and then questioning my read of greeting, it's consistent with my past experiences with phir, though asking me about my being on board with the biancospino hammer kinda pinged me a little bit, because it felt like phir maybe wanted me to make it very apparent that i objected to the hammer because of course i did, like phir was townreading me and would have to have known i objected, so maybe a little +scum and +partner there, but also possibly testing me i guess, like it seems possible to me that phir thought it was odd that i did not more vehemently object and worried about me momentarily
146 - i have looked at this post so many times, it also seemed very odd to me that everyone was fine with the e-1 at that point and thought there might have been something to it, which i believe i had already stated at that point, and trying to figure out potential worlds from that seems fine to me? like it's better than i was doing with it i mostly just contemplated setup stuff regarding, still pretty unsure on the conclusions but yeah
159 - assumedly due to imaginality readslist post, which apparently led to a few players being suspicious, though i do not fully understand,
178 - phir did not call you town earlier, as far as i can tell, they said you can be town while in conversation with me, like that it was a possibility, is what i took that to mean, especially since that conversation was occuring because phir had just voted you? like i do not understand at all how you (grandpamo) have interpreted this to mean that phir thought you were town, but yeah i questioned the bit about the towncore as well, still seems a little odd to me
182 - to me this just seems like phir is once again saying it's possible to come from town but stands out to them, like it's noteworthy behaviour even if not necessarily scummy, like could be 'shading' or whatever, but i do not think it's odd that phir is considering your alignment to be possibly town or possibly scum,
220 - yeah it would have been pretty odd to me if it wasn't me phir was referring to because when i thought about the towncore statement i really couldn't think of anyone it would apply to for phir other than myself, which is why it was odd to me in the first place because such a small towncore to be happy with et cetera
221 - eh maybe feels like posturing, i guess i don't really see how 'maybe i'll just try to get grandpamo eliminated to see if i can' is like, a towmy thought, but also don't really see the benefit of a scums posting it either
223 - hm, this maybe noteworthy also because whemestar one of those semi-mindmelding with phir re: imaginality post, though the towminess of the whemestar post phir quoted here kinda ???
239 - i dunno, the appeal to authority thing was probably in reference to you saying 'trust me i am very capable', which i think you meant as more of like, you are capable of repeating yourself, but i could see how phir might have misinterpreted that, and the rest maybe feels postury again
243 - don't get why you think this is inconsistent either, like from my perspective it seems like phir is saying 'for town this is a waste of time but don't see why scum would do this', which while i don't even really agree with phir's conclusion re: your possible alignment based on that, i don't get why you think phir should have a concrete view of your alignment at this time,
320 - why is this such a big red flag? like feels like 'i am thinking about this but would also like to explore this', which seems fine to me, once again deferring to the opinion of others, which probably worries me more than the perceived lack of congruence between the vote and the statement, like the possibility that it's trying to appeal to the aforementioned towncore and such,
464 - phir has been sheeping meuh? and possibly thought your claim and posting during "restriction" and such was potentially towmy,
492 - yeah i guess i am also curious about whereabouts in the game phir was scumreading greeting and such and why, though i am unsure why that isn't a question that could simply be asked of phir, and then it's response weighed,

[demona]

im responding to 320 because im on phone but its a red flag because he calls me scum and votes someone else but he has been sum shading me all game?

demona, you literally told me they have been calling me town. now you are saying they are not putting in me any alignment just pushing me. and now you don't see the scum move? are you also going to ignore the vote he made on me? you're also getting confused. I don't understand why you're defending him this much lol

yes but one can have more than one thought about the game, like why does that only come from scum to you, like 'this is scummy to me but i'd like to explore this as well'? like maybe the amount of conviction with the read with regards to you there is odd to me but i feel that way very often i feel that way right now about how sure you seemingly are about phir right now

yes, those were at different points in the game? like i don't really see why you would expect a town to have a concrete static read of you, like mostly it feels like you are saying that town!phir would believe that you were a scums here and would vote for you and never reconsider and would push for solely you as hard as they could? which is like ????????? to me, like why would that be your expectation of town!phir?

i am constantly confused yes that's why i try to be as methodical as i can be with regards to alot of things but i am not 'defending' phir, this is simply how i am viewing phir's posts, like i went through all of the posts because you asked me to, so the 'why i am defending them this much' would simply be because you asked me to look and that's how i feel,

[demona]

i will just assume all bold text is fake until proven otherwise

[demona]

im responding to 320 because im on phone but its a red flag because he calls me scum and votes someone else but he has been sum shading me all game?

demona, you literally told me they have been calling me town. now you are saying they are not putting in me any alignment just pushing me. and now you don't see the scum move? are you also going to ignore the vote he made on me? you're also getting confused. I don't understand why you're defending him this much lol

yes but one can have more than one thought about the game, like why does that only come from scum to you, like 'this is scummy to me but i'd like to explore this as well'? like maybe the amount of conviction with the read with regards to you there is odd to me but i feel that way very often i feel that way right now about how sure you seemingly are about phir right now

yes, those were at different points in the game? like i don't really see why you would expect a town to have a concrete static read of you, like mostly it feels like you are saying that town!phir would believe that you were a scums here and would vote for you and never reconsider and would push for solely you as hard as they could? which is like ????????? to me, like why would that be your expectation of town!phir?

i am constantly confused yes that's why i try to be as methodical as i can be with regards to alot of things but i am not 'defending' phir, this is simply how i am viewing phir's posts, like i went through all of the posts because you asked me to, so the 'why i am defending them this much' would simply be because you asked me to look and that's how i feel,

demona he does this with many people.

u give me right now 2-3 strong scumrszds he has and 2-3 strong townresds he has. it has been late in day 1, he should have it by now.

but u can't... because he switches up every second. he is inconsistent and keeps doubting himself or not sticking to one thing that he believes.

i think phir has been like, very consistent with the townreads, enough so that that is one of the things that worries me about phir as my read of meuh has become shakier over time,

but also... why is being inconsistent or doubting yourself scummy?

and you say i am your strongest townread right, so i wonder what you think my 2-3 strongest scumreads and 2-3 strongest townreads are, since i assume i should also have those by now and that is an expectation you have of town,

[demona]

pedit. omg demona. show me the consistency??

and its usually scum indictive to change ur reads constantly and wagonhop . you're either fishing a lim or sheeping. or it shows you misaligned with your thoughts which would show u are scum because town usually is more coherent and have a more logical flow going on.

phir has been townreading me+meuh for like, the entire game? and has sheeped meuh on multiple occasions and has interacted with me as though they were townreading me throughout, so phir has definitely been consistent in the townreads to me, outside of maybe greeting, who it seemed like phir was townreading throughout but phir stated they had not,

but less consistent in the scumreads, or at least, seemingly just defaulting to the rest being possible scum, with certain among those other being the focus at various times, which sure i could see that potentially coming from a scums,

phir on the other hand has done opposite, has had a different meta on different occasions and continues to be vocal about their reads and thstx okay!! but the problem lies with the difference in every other post they make with a different conclusion -- they don't have a coherent and logical flow.

u keep saying they have been consistent but why are you questioning inconsistency is scummy if u don't think that's the case?

and everyone in their unconscious mind should have made uo their mind about who they think is likely town and likely scum at least 2-4 people. some people are vocal about it and some aren't like you. so I can't rlly tell u other than the people u have mentioned like bianco which is a null town lean probably and other people u have mentioned which I don't feel like looking at rn

phir has been consistent in some things inconsistent in others, like i guess to me i can kinda see how they might have gotten from a to b to c most of the time,

i was mostly asking why you thought doubting and inconsistency were scummy because... i am full of doubt and inconsistency and i think that is readily apparent and you are strongly townreading me, so i was wondering about your thought process regarding,

[demona]

VOTE: demona

...

[demona]

@demona plus u have been interrogative and questiony of everyone, why aren't u doing the same for phir?

that was my concern

like right now in this exchange? i feel like questioning someone while they are being pushed in a downhill manner is generally unproductive

like i would like phir to explain where and why their doubts about greeting came from and such,

but do i think asking that while you are saying "phir is definitely absolutely a scums!!! and having like a charged exchange" is like, useful?

nah not really

[demona]

don't ... on me

would you like to explain why perhaps you are voting me?

[demona]

don't ... on me

would you like to explain why perhaps you are voting me?

yes

sigh please enchant if you're just trolling me because you think it's funny and you know i'll respond we can just not

and if you actually think i'm a scums here or whatever and you're town i'd like to just work through this now because i know we've previously had issues with communication and such as well as your general objection to my playstyle,

so

[demona]

Nah i am not trolling, my vote is mostly semirandom

okay but why has your mostly semirandom vote fallen on me? like if you're not trolling there must be an impetus of some sort, right, was it something recent i said? or a feeling that has grown over time? do you feel my approach to the grandpamo/phir situation was a scummy one? what does that say to you about their alignments?

[demona]

Idk i find your posting... Interesting in bad sense

do you mean my posting style? like how i format my posts, how i present my thoughts etc,

or do you mean the content of my posts?

[demona]

Idk i find your posting... Interesting in bad sense

do you mean my posting style? like how i format my posts, how i present my thoughts etc,

or do you mean the content of my posts?

Idk i just want to blast most calm person in game

is the most calm person in the game often a scums in your experience?

pedit: do you mean like, you feel as though town should not be calm in this situation, like i am being 'too reasoned' or something?

like do you feel as though i am acting like a mediator instead of being bloodthirsty? is that what you are trying to say, and you think town would be more aggressive, maybe?

(also i can see the difficulty trying to put thoughts into words as i do not feel 'calm' am rather quite anxious and feeling energized right now but i can also maybe get a sense of what you mean)

[demona]

also can we out what are our roles are like if ur role is a bastard role or if it is like a weird flavor role?

because i will out this right now -- i did not recieve any flavor .. my role is pure vanilla (im not saying if i am vt or not but i am saying i am a role that would be included in a noirmal game ruleset)

mm, are you a doctor? simple yes/no

on phone please no questions just trust for a sec i have a theory

[demona]

What? Why in the world would we want a fucking

doctor

to claim

I've no iea why you're cncluded this but this does not seem like a good idea at al

are

you

a doctor? please just be truthful answer question

[demona]

What? Why in the world would we want a fucking

doctor

to claim

I've no iea why you're cncluded this but this does not seem like a good idea at al

are

you

a doctor? please just be truthful answer question

No happy?

thankyou

would still like grandpamo to answer as well,

[demona]

I have escaped

mhmmhm any chance you'd like to walk us through all of that

were you freed by the vote or the questions, why didn't you give us whatever information you claim to have before the 'show', do you actually have any information, did you learn anything,

Because it was all a lie. I was afraid if I continued to play normally in a bastard game that involved Angels and Demons, I would be the first one to die during the night. There was motivation from all over my unconscious mind to do this including wanting to be scumread, wanting to get reactions, wanting to test out faking a whole role to see if it gave any valuable information for either player who either 1. Asked the questions or 2. interacted with each other about the questions. And I learned a lot through it and Phir is my top contender as scum. They are hiding something that they don't want to tell you all. They are afraid. Why do you think they are not pushing me right now? And have always been poking me but never doing anything about it? Because they thought my role was real to eventually reveal what a fraud they are.

Blegh blegh blegh I hate this post

actually wait this reminded me of something

grandpamo said earlier that he thought maybe i had a post restriction of some sort and that's why i was posting videos and that's why he posted the post quoting them all when he was pretending to be the guardian angel and such but... his post restriction was fake so why would he have thought i had a real post restriction? (that i hadn't claimed or anything despite lengthy discussion of post restrictions etc)

[demona]

What the shit are these posts? Why is GMo phishing for info and why is Demona flat asking if people are the doc?

I know I am parroting what has already been said, but we can't let this go that easily.

why can't we let that go? like just assume i am town, and i feel as though i have been very towny here so it shouldn't be all that hard to do so if you're town, and work from that assumption and think about the game and the source material and what i have posted and brainstorm all of the reasons you can think of that i might be asking to yourself if you want, like there's a reason i asked not to be questioned about it and such, and if one of them go 'oh that would make sense' it is probably that one!

and i am well aware of the implications of my question

like i find it very hard to believe that you would possibly think i would have played this game the way i have as a scums and then i thought it was so very important for me to find out specifically whether grandpamo and biancospino were doctors, so i just asked? like ... c'mon

just seems so very unlikely that that is how you would think about that interaction

[demona]

the source material

here's a link to a similar translation to one of the versions mykonian has been referencing: https://antilogicalism.com/wp-content/u ... /faust.pdf

page 16, the bottom of which mykonian has quoted, maybe most readily relevant to my question

i think mykonian has also been working from 'the essential goethe' version but i do not have a copy nor does it seem to be online in its entirety

[demona]

I have escaped

mhmmhm any chance you'd like to walk us through all of that

were you freed by the vote or the questions, why didn't you give us whatever information you claim to have before the 'show', do you actually have any information, did you learn anything,

Because it was all a lie. I was afraid if I continued to play normally in a bastard game that involved Angels and Demons, I would be the first one to die during the night. There was motivation from all over my unconscious mind to do this including wanting to be scumread, wanting to get reactions, wanting to test out faking a whole role to see if it gave any valuable information for either player who either 1. Asked the questions or 2. interacted with each other about the questions. And I learned a lot through it and Phir is my top contender as scum. They are hiding something that they don't want to tell you all. They are afraid. Why do you think they are not pushing me right now? And have always been poking me but never doing anything about it? Because they thought my role was real to eventually reveal what a fraud they are.

Blegh blegh blegh I hate this post

actually wait this reminded me of something

grandpamo said earlier that he thought maybe i had a post restriction of some sort and that's why i was posting videos and that's why he posted the post quoting them all when he was pretending to be the guardian angel and such but... his post restriction was fake so why would he have thought i had a real post restriction? (that i hadn't claimed or anything despite lengthy discussion of post restrictions etc)

here:

it was yeah

I wouldn't fake a whole thing that probably in my head makes me look more town than scum...

I could have just not done all that and played my original playstyle and probably get scumread for it because I am a very versatile player that can transform into a playstyle that can be scumread. I know my own playstyle and multiple people in this game can tell you that.

it felt like, other than to get me to engage i couldn't find a reason for why you made the post re: the videos i posted (which i would now like an explanation for) and with you posting the queen lyrics and such it felt like maybe you were trying to get people to vote for you, either jester or to break the post restriction, though i admittedly did not think about it for very long obviously

Oh sorry about that. I did that to maybe inform others about a possible post restriction you may have. Nothing to scumread or townread you about just something to point out. I thought somebody will get my signal but nobody did and I didn't want to have to break character. You are my top town by the way.

[demona]

i kinda like how similarly meuh and i are viewing phir posts and grandpamo's case and such,

like most of meuh's posts today feel like very much in line with how i am thinking even the wagon stuff as well though i guess maybe i have expressed my feelings with regards to previously

i know we have mindmelded at length before as town in that trust fall game and i am going to try very very hard not to become paranoid about this this time because it's unreasonable of me

(but then that little tiny voice in the back of my mind is like... but meuh knows about that game too...)

[demona]

Hmm yeah this is intriguing
I'm not really surprised at us lining up cause you just generally had good takes in Trust Fall, though I think I should be careful not to write you off entirely cause mindmeld is generally good but doesn't necessitate you being town (esp since I think you have the skillset to fake good takes)
To me you're kind of in that same space in my mind I have in pretty much every game (including trust fall) of like, a town leader with mild good vibes who I'm willing to assume is town for day 1 and analyze more properly in the long run, because it'd be nonsensical to lim them early anyways

i mean, my thoughts lining up with your thoughts here is already evidenced by my posts, like i expressed my distrust of the whemestar wagon, i had already made nearly the same points as you re: phir's posting and grandpamo's case, it's not just me saying 'oh we are mindmelding that's what i think too!' but yes, i suppose in theory from your perspective it could simply be my faking good takes and then you having similar takes, and like i said, this time i am committed to not letting myself get too paranoid about it, just found it interesting to note i guess, sorry

[demona]

[demona]

What the shit are these posts? Why is GMo phishing for info and why is Demona flat asking if people are the doc?

I know I am parroting what has already been said, but we can't let this go that easily.

why can't we let that go? like just assume i am town, and i feel as though i have been very towny here so it shouldn't be all that hard to do so if you're town, and work from that assumption and think about the game and the source material and what i have posted and brainstorm all of the reasons you can think of that i might be asking to yourself if you want, like there's a reason i asked not to be questioned about it and such, and if one of them go 'oh that would make sense' it is probably that one!

and i am well aware of the implications of my question

like i find it very hard to believe that you would possibly think i would have played this game the way i have as a scums and then i thought it was so very important for me to find out specifically whether grandpamo and biancospino were doctors, so i just asked? like ... c'mon

just seems so very unlikely that that is how you would think about that interaction

Why is the 'source material' such a sticking point?

And I feel like I am in a bad trip reading this post, I genuinely don't know what you are trying to say here.

? because it seems relevant to me and what i was thinking there and you are asking me why, so i was simply giving you the tools to maybe answer that question for yourself because i don't think it's a beneficial discussion, which is also why i recommended brainstorming to yourself and also why i asked for no questions to be asked and such, if you don't want to look into it that's fine as well

i am trying to say that your implication by saying that 'we can't just let this go', is that it is somehow scummy of me to have asked grandpamo and biancospino if they are doctors, as though you think i have played this game the way i have played this game so far as a scums, and then you think i just found it so important for me to know right away if grandpamo and biancospino (who i only asked because she replied to my asking grandpamo and it would need at least one additional data point beyond grandpamo anyway to test theory) were doctors, so i asked them! like that was my scum agenda there and it is like ??? you can't possibly think that right? like how would that be your thought process and what you thought was most likely from my question there

like sure meuh and biancospino were like, i think this is a bad idea, which is fair, they are likely smarter than me and better at mafia, given,

but you being like, why aren't you doing more about this! something must be done, don't let demona get away with this, just seems so ??? to me

[demona]

also can we out what are our roles are like if ur role is a bastard role or if it is like a weird flavor role?

because i will out this right now -- i did not recieve any flavor .. my role is pure vanilla (im not saying if i am vt or not but i am saying i am a role that would be included in a noirmal game ruleset)

mm, are you a doctor? simple yes/no

on phone please no questions just trust for a sec i have a theory

i want people actually to answer this first --

and stop rolefishing...


... my question is actually helpful and can give us info about the game mechanics

i mean, i have literally already answered your question, before you even asked it,

and i think my question is actually helpful as well and could give us info about the game mechanics but okay

just don't really see how you'd think your question is like, fine and not potentially harmful but mine is one that should not be answered, or one that you're unwilling to answer at least

[demona]

i mean, i have literally already answered your question, before you even asked it,

I am just curious are you third party

nope just a town not even a fun one

[demona]

I just didn't want role fishing to get swept under the rug.

And I still am tripping reading your posts.

Is the cult leader the only one not on drugs here?

if you're struggling understanding something just ask me to reword, or try to put into your words so i could see where the issue is and then try to correct that, and such

i know i have a very hard time making things clear to others and i am willing to keep trying i just don't know where the issue actually is here and i guess i would prefer that not to be told i must be on drugs because of something that is more or less a constant for me

[demona]

I just didn't want role fishing to get swept under the rug.

And I still am tripping reading your posts.

Is the cult leader the only one not on drugs here?

if you're struggling understanding something just ask me to reword, or try to put into your words so i could see where the issue is and then try to correct that, and such

i know i have a very hard time making things clear to others and i am willing to keep trying i just don't know where the issue actually is here and i guess i would prefer that not to be told i must be on drugs because of something that is more or less a constant for me

like i get that it is unfair of me to put that on you because it is my failing but it's not like an uncommon failing for me or one that is specific to mafia or anything ya know

[demona]

I just didn't want role fishing to get swept under the rug.

okay but why do you think scum!me would 'rolefish' there by asking two specific players if they are one specific role? like why is that the scenario you thought was likely there or one you were worried others were not seeing?

or is this just 'this is rolefishing! and rolefishing is scummy!' without considering context in anyway

[demona]

I just didn't want role fishing to get swept under the rug.

okay but why do you think scum!me would 'rolefish' there by asking two specific players if they are one specific role? like why is that the scenario you thought was likely there or one you were worried others were not seeing?

or is this just 'this is rolefishing! and rolefishing is scummy!' without considering context in anyway

Rolefishing is scummy, yes

this is pretty ... to me but i'll just accept it for now

but how are you weighing the scumminess of my 'rolefishing' in comparison to other things you have noted about me so far?

or is my 'rolefishing' the only thing that has been alignment indicative to you about me so far?

[demona]

as you were pushing me for similar reasons at the beginning of the game then mostly ignored me for a long period of time and now are saying 'don't let this "rolefishing" sneak by you'

so i wonder if you have had any other thoughts with regards to me throughout

[demona]

I just didn't want role fishing to get swept under the rug.

okay but why do you think scum!me would 'rolefish' there by asking two specific players if they are one specific role? like why is that the scenario you thought was likely there or one you were worried others were not seeing?

or is this just 'this is rolefishing! and rolefishing is scummy!' without considering context in anyway

Rolefishing is scummy, yes

this is pretty ... to me but i'll just accept it for now

but how are you weighing the scumminess of my 'rolefishing' in comparison to other things you have noted about me so far?

or is my 'rolefishing' the only thing that has been alignment indicative to you about me so far?

Rolefishing is scummy

so it's just solely that and there is literally nothing i can do to be town in your eyes because 'rolefishing is scummy'?

[demona]

like i feel like this is just a completely absurd viewpoint but maybe i am too close to it

[demona]

but it is just so so hard for me to see how town would have this sort of stance like, 'you rolefished! therefore scum! the end.'

like that's just not really how the game works? like not even in small samples? and you're quite experienced so i don't get it

[demona]

like i feel like this is just a completely absurd viewpoint but maybe i am too close to it

What do feel about Bianco and Gmo having typos in every post they make as of late?

i think biancospino said she was drunk and i think that's been pretty common of grandpamo throughout, except maybe when grandpamo was a "guardian angel" which is assumedly because grandpamo was more careful about crafting the posts and such during that time, and like i said at the time the luminari font really was a nice touch, helped to sell it

[demona]

like i feel like this is just a completely absurd viewpoint but maybe i am too close to it

What do feel about Bianco and Gmo having typos in every post they make as of late?

i think biancospino said she was drunk and i think that's been pretty common of grandpamo throughout, except maybe when grandpamo was a "guardian angel" which is assumedly because grandpamo was more careful about crafting the posts and such during that time, and like i said at the time the luminari font really was a nice touch, helped to sell it

or maybe not drunk but was drinking, sorry biancospino, that's my bad,

[demona]

I don't buy that Bianco was drunk.

i generally try not to weigh out of game things in anyway and accept them at face value

not that i have any point of comparison for like

this

is what someone posts like when drinking

like i wouldn't be able to make that judgment even if i did try to weigh it

[demona]

Does it look like enchant is trying to find scum at any point in this game?

maybe(?) when asking me if i was a third party, and maybe(???) when saying 'just want to blast the most calm person', like the thought process that might have gone into that and the vote on me, otherwise not really,

but how often is town!enchant outwardly trying to find scum?

i feel like, if there is some aspect of the game to get enchant consistently engaged then enchant becomes pretty sortable in general, but right now, dunno

enchant could be voting me in like a 'unachievable wagon' way that scum sometimes do but also i think enchant just does not like the way i play and often suspects me, so

[demona]

Does it look like enchant is trying to find scum at any point in this game?

maybe(?) when asking me if i was a third party, and maybe(???) when saying 'just want to blast the most calm person', like the thought process that might have gone into that and the vote on me, otherwise not really,

but how often is town!enchant outwardly trying to find scum?

i feel like, if there is some aspect of the game to get enchant consistently engaged then enchant becomes pretty sortable in general, but right now, dunno

enchant could be voting me in like a 'unachievable wagon' way that scum sometimes do but also i think enchant just does not like the way i play and often suspects me, so

True about the third party part, but he didn't rly push it

I think enchant does do stuff! Not just randomly push a wagon i feel like no one is interested in

nono sorry i was certainly not trying to say that enchant doesn't do anything,

rather in my experience sometimes enchant is very proactive and othertimes not as both alignments, but that even when enchant is excited and engaged and such that hasn't presented itself as like, there being alot of outward evidence that enchant is 'trying to find scum' through interaction, ya know?

like even when enchant replaced into that micro blitz and immediately made an omgus push on datisi and was Very Town there wasn't really a noticeable aspect of enchant trying to sort datisi by doing so,

and the one time i can think of that enchant was like actively "trying to find a scums" by doing so enchant was a scums, so

i have found that mechanics and setups and such are one thing that can help get enchant to engage with the game as i believe enchant quite enjoys thinking about them and when enchant replaces into the later stages of a normal game that's something one can immediately interact with enchant about to see if enchant sparks into action but here i dunno,

like if enchant is town i would like enchant (and same goes for whemestar) to find things they are interested in or think are important here and post about them, could be overall patterns could be specific posts specific reads could be the game itself, like anything really, because i do think it would make them both much more sortable, but i don't really know how to encourage that here like you can't really manufacture excitement for the game on someone else's behalf

(side note: i quite like playing with enchant and i think enchant is rather invaluable to the site as a whole, we've just had issues in the past communicating with one another and sorting eachother at various times and i think enchant generally finds my playstyle to be boring/unfun which is fine and i can agree that i am boring - though i do think we view the game of mafia itself similarly in alot of ways as town, like we both work from a position of 'all posts are

possibly

coming from a scums' and then trying to weigh likelihoods from there)