Open 878: Scarfolk Council | The End

[fireisredsir]

Spoiler: from another game

Subject: Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

Cool. So now that we've established that VP Balter is wrong and bad, let's focus on the current game.

legendary post

[Aisa]

fireisredsir you are infuriatingly difficult to scumread

[fireisredsir]

i mean im not scum

[Dunnstral]

Going to go out on a limb here and say that while I really like the mech arguments and analysis that implosion has put forward today, I'm not liking how stubborn they are with "lim fire" and repeating that over and over without seeming to put in effort to look and see whether fire is mafia.

Not a fan of what Mena has been doing (or not doing) today either in regards to fire and also mech stuff but I am pretty sure they are town for their wall posting towards fire way back when.

I don't want to eliminate fire anymore but it feels really difficult if neither implosion or mena are willing to consider other options

[fireisredsir]

btw i finished dunn meta refresher course and i actually really think he's town here

like a lot more confident than i thought i was

i was actually thinking that team mafia would show me his scumrange was wider than i thought it was bc i heard he played a good game. and he did. but the mindset and approach is still really different than how he's approaching this game, and how he approaches his town games, imo

[Dunnstral]

And the reason I am complaining about you two is because I am thinking that you two are town. I don't really care that egix is doing nothing today and placed the weakest omgus vote of all time then disappeared because yeah they're probably mafia anyway. Aureal kind of feels like they have an agenda but I think I would eliminate sheepsaysmeep before Aureal at this point as I have been growing increasingly suspicious of them.

Hey nice timing fire

[fireisredsir]

im like

[aisa ceph dunn]
[mena implosion]

gap

[egix]
[aureal sheep]

[fireisredsir]

ceph could fool me and id willingly let him so maybe he belongs in the bracket below that but i do think he feels town here pretty strongly

[Aureal]

i lied again i got distracted looking at sheep

kinda thought going in that i was gonna scumread him more but im not as sure of that, some of the mid day 1 posting swayed me a bit. but i think if he is wolf he is just aiming for playing a super pure game where he is generally on the right side of things and is just kinda chilling to set up for endgame. which is a hard wolfgame to find. i think his posting today hasn't been as pure though, and some of the stuff surrounding skitter maybe

part of me does just want to sheep skitter on sheep idk. i wish she was still here. whos idea was it to kill her. not mine

How tf is being on both miseliminations "super pure" and "generally on the right side of things"???

[fireisredsir]

a big part of looking like pure innocent town is avoiding letting tmi influence your play

the enchant elim was what the majority of town wanted

and in d1 and most of d2 his takes were mostly reasonable and towny and his strongest townreads were good choices for being town.

as i pointed out i don't think he played as pure around skitter, i think that's one of the places where if he is scum, he let scum agenda influence his play more than other times

[Aureal]

a big part of looking like pure innocent town is avoiding letting tmi influence your play

the enchant elim was what the majority of town wanted

and in d1 and most of d2 his takes were mostly reasonable and towny and his strongest townreads were good choices for being town.

as i pointed out i don't think he played as pure around skitter, i think that's one of the places where if he is scum, he let scum agenda influence his play more than other times

What point are you even trying to make? I cannot make heads or tails of this. Is being on a bad elimination wagon just because townies are suspicious to you or not?

And how do you know what the majority of town wanted regarding Enchant?? There's 9 to 11 town in game there and we have 3 flipped town on that wagon.

[fireisredsir]

i feel like you misunderstood the point of my post?

i was not saying "sheep is scum bc he did this"

i was saying "if sheep is scum, he was doing this. which looks towny, and makes it hard to judge if he's scum or not"

it wasn't really a significant point i was just thinking out loud

[fireisredsir]

i don't understand why this is something you would pick to be combative about

[Aureal]

So you are trying to say that being on a bad elimination without reasons of your own is towny?

[Aureal]

And please don't avoid the question about why you assert that the majority of town wanted Enchant. Two flipped town were there plus Enchant himself.

[sheepsaysmeep]

this game is a pooper

[fireisredsir]

So you are trying to say that being on a bad elimination without reasons of your own is towny?

lol???

lmao???

[fireisredsir]

And please don't avoid the question about why you assert that the majority of town wanted Enchant. Two flipped town were there plus Enchant himself.

thread consensus was to lim enchant i don't think anyone was opposed to it besides andante iirc

[sheepsaysmeep]

aureal is wolfy but I still think dunn is very wolf and am basically tunneled on dunn/fire until a flip

fire's post about meta was not convincing. I looked through dunn wolfgames, and my conclusion was basically "he has an insanely wide wolfrange so I dont think I will be able to give him meta points in this game," rather than "that game felt different than this game so he's villa". fire if ur v and want to convince me I'd probably want u to talk about why his past villa games and wolf games are noticeably different and then this looks like the first set, rather than mainly based on 1 game. The one line I can see here is that dunn seemed more interested in the wolf games I opened, and extreme refusal to put effort into this game could actually be town for some people with meta like that + explain some of the things I find wolfy lol. but I dont love that read because it still feels like theres some level of investment there that he pretends isnt there, as opposed to another half of the playerlist noping out and being like "I hate this game"

[sheepsaysmeep]

one big thing is that I think Dunn's treatment of fire is pretty bad

he has been defending fire without expressing a townread there

first more subtly by being like we gotta do egix et al. today, and then like I prefer these people over voting dunn, and then it's not working so he's more outright like I want to not lim fire

I think if he Townreads fire he should say words explaining it to more firmly actually defend his townread fire

I think if he doesn't townread fire he should get the approach of people like implosion/menal/ sort of me now more. the reasons to resolve him + like, some part of me hoped to be compelled by him today but I just struggle to be compelled by him today. I feel like implo's perspective on why to steamroll him makes more sense than dunn acts like he gets

[sheepsaysmeep]

I am interested in the fire wagon still sticking out like that so close to the deadline- like I dont have a say to question it because I havent really read about it at all lol, but my instinct/gut is mildly against the lim from his posting. first it was like this catch-up could totally be wolf but I really like the way he seems to be engaging with / questioning stuff and I am somewhat pocketed by his read process on me, I think his townread was a good read for the right stuff and his progression on me tonight is something I commonly experience. im mainly curious to look later at how people pushing before the sub have taken into account fire posting

Idk lol

I think fire is posting almost like wolf!me lmao my gut screams wolf

but I think some aspects of their posting are just. Objectively villagery on paper lol

and thus I feel really weird about the state of the wagons

is my surface takeaway prior to understanding much

And I read the post before, I mean I want you to cite the exact posts where fire is being objectively villagery

idk maybe there's nothing there if others dont see it lol. I just think his vibe is extremely villagery. villagery thought processes + very unafraid to engage with people + lots of WIM. I think he's had a pro-town effect on the game with how I had completely no motivation until fireisredsir entered and im like oh shit now we really have a game now theres good stuff. I have by far the best gut/natural reaction to his posting in this game before I process it and am like eh fine a wolf can do that. I would feel better about the wagon on him if it acknowledges those aspects of his play that I think look good (idk if it does that yet, I still havent read very in-depth and citing the specific posts u want rn feels weird cuz of that lolz. it's an eager open approach to the game thing

I like fire's skitter read, at a quick skim. I think it's vaguely similar to mild paranoia ive been wanting to articulate that her reads are too static?
like for example, she first put CSF at wolf for a minor thing. then she keeps repeating here and there that she thinks CSF is a wolf, but many many people have expressed a different opinion and she doesn't engage with it. she asked me why I townread CSF, didnt rly do anything with the response; tons of other people say "I townread CSF" and skitter disagrees but just doesn't rly interact. I think something similar happened with Andante, where first she developed a push on Andante, then a bunch of people went "I feel like this is town for andante?" sorta stuff and I dont feel skitter faced that enough and instead just kept maintaining a rigid andante!wolf

when I saw fire talking about skitter I liked fire more, it feels like we're somewhattt poking at a similar thing

I think fire is toooown, it's not that there's anything he did like "that's really hard to fake", it's just like he said we are responding reallyyyy similarly to some things lol and when that happens on a large-scale it's usually just town. and I find the efforts against him just pretty underwhelming

this is some of what me being wary about fire lim looked like. + actively pushing skitter

dunn being wary about fire lim looks like.. not really talking about fire

[fireisredsir]

aureal is wolfy but I still think dunn is very wolf and am basically tunneled on dunn/fire until a flip

fire's post about meta was not convincing. I looked through dunn wolfgames, and my conclusion was basically "he has an insanely wide wolfrange so I dont think I will be able to give him meta points in this game," rather than "that game felt different than this game so he's villa". fire if ur v and want to convince me I'd probably want u to talk about why his past villa games and wolf games are noticeably different and then this looks like the first set, rather than mainly based on 1 game. The one line I can see here is that dunn seemed more interested in the wolf games I opened, and extreme refusal to put effort into this game could actually be town for some people with meta like that + explain some of the things I find wolfy lol. but I dont love that read because it still feels like theres some level of investment there that he pretends isnt there, as opposed to another half of the playerlist noping out and being like "I hate this game"

as scum he forces himself to talk about things that he doesn't really care about and as town he just talks about things that he cares about. i think it's noticeable when he's pushing himself to make a post

in both cases sometimes depending on the game he cares about more things or less things and activity can reflect that. and sometimes there's things he cares about as both alignments, like how activity isn't AI for him despite many people claiming it is

he's usually a bit cleaner as scum, making sure to justify progressions and show his work when developing a read on someone, while as town he doesn't really feel as much pressure to do that. i think his attitude also tends to come through a lot more as town, as scum there's definitely a bit of a wall up, and any arguments feel a little disengaged and precise

he's not an easy read bc i think he always has a bit of that wall up as either alignment, and isn't super forthcoming with his thoughts. but i think once you get a feel for the style of how he approaches things, you can see it. on a surface level the posting can look fairly similar but you have to look deeper for the intent behind the posts

[fireisredsir]

also it wasn't based on one game

[fireisredsir]

the team mafia game was just one i wanted to read bc i hadn't read it yet and i heard someone mention that he played to his town meta well in it so i wanted to see how true that was

[fireisredsir]

i thoroughly read through that one + legends of the business company, and reread invictus and spring fling

ive also read other dunn meta at other points when trying to read him