Open 878: Scarfolk Council | The End

[fireisredsir]

yes. i agree with that

i think some of that indignantness can sometimes come from scum who went to great efforts to not be on miselim wagons bc they were hoping someone would later point out how towny that was and now they're annoyed that nobody seems to care

[Aureal]

i’m gathering that the game is cooked

Eh, if the consensus townreads are actually town I think there's still a good shot to pull through. We need to stop wavering about fire though. The fact that pressure on him seems to once again be getting diffused is just further convincing me he's scum.

can you 1) explain the read succinctly for me and 2) who do you think is diffusing the pressure?

My fire read I assume? I had a mild townread on him for part of day 2 that I really wanted to talk more to Menalque about; but that started deteriorating right at the end as once it looked like skitter was going to be the flip, fire started to pivot onto me for no good reason. It's continued deteriorating throughout the day as he came in with more of an attempt to push me with poor reasoning, then stopped engaging with me once I started pushing back. He's just flat-out refused to explain his scumread on me and says he can't see a world where I'm not scum (guess what, you live in that world!) He posts a lot of words but I find little of value in them, they don't seem to be giving us any information that we could use. He keeps throwing out comments that seem divorced from reality like he's got a narrative he wants to subtly push; like saying Cephrir was towny for being the one trying to start counter-wagons at the end of day two (he was not doing that), or this latest where he described sheep's play as "super pure and on the right side of things" seemingly without regard for what sheep has actually done with his play (voted out town at every opportunity).

And at this point, basically everyone not named Menalque is diffusing the pressure.

[Aureal]

Tl;dr for the whole game is that we miselimmed twice and we have no info and are trying not to miselim again today. The 1-shot cop claimed for no reason on day 1 and then didn't activate their ability night 1. And now they're dead with no check. Nobody else has claimed a power role so far, fire has claimed vt.

This is not necessary accurate. We don't know why there was no n1 action. Slot was replaced in the night and the replacement only made a 'hi' post then vanished and got replaced again so maybe an action was not submitted, but it's also possible there could be a roleblocker.

I interpreted them saying they took no action to mean that they didn't try to do anything, not that they were roleblocked after trying to do something. I also feel they would have simply claimed to have been roleblocked if that were the case.

Yeah you would hope she'd have just said so- knowing there was a roleblocker would've been good to know. But Merlyn barely had time to get her foot into the game and the day ended pretty suddenly, she might've still been thinking over whether that information was useful enough to out that she had a role that would've gotten used there rather than say, being a mason or a vig. I wouldn't say it's definitely that the action wasn't used though that's more likely.

[fireisredsir]

He keeps throwing out comments that seem divorced from reality like he's got a narrative he wants to subtly push; like saying Cephrir was towny for being the one trying to start counter-wagons at the end of day two (he was not doing that)

it gets very tiring having to keep doing this but just bc ydra is new here and is lacking context, this is just flat out a lie, ceph was doing exactly that in 1527 and 1530 (and for more context, this is him pulling out of a pretty deep tunnel, which makes it more significant)

[Aureal]

VOTE: Aureal
I started writing half of this thought dump like 12 hours ago and it's... interesting to see what has happened in the interim

How my thoughts got to this point

(skip if walls make you sad)

Spoiler:

It seems like I somehow tricked you suckers into hard townlocking me, so I can skip the step where I apologise for being chaotic bwahahahaha

Anyway. fire doesn't seem all that scummy anymore. I thought his initial meta on me was extremely flimsy, and once I locked in {implosion Aureal Egix} as town there weren't many other places where it made sense to me to eliminate anyway. But his updated meta is better, and he didn't continue pushing me. That got me thinking about how it doesn't feel like he's been pushing any sort of agenda today. He hasn't really proposed an alternative solve, or done anything. If he's scum it seems like his only strategy has been to talk expend effort talking about how towny certain people are and how hard this game is to solve. This... just doesn't seem like scum behaviour.

I still have worries, of course. I'm worried about how bad for the gamestate (sorry) fire vs skitter was if it was a TvT. I'd need to reread that to get a better sense of whether it was something fire accidentally got sucked into (better).

I also have worries about my new push. For a while in my head Aureal was the mafia industrial complex's chosen mislim, and I still worry that I am playing into that. It feels like this is an elimination that might actually

happen

. Could it be that easy...? If Mena and implosion are town where is the opposition to the wagon...? But maybe it is that easy, I don't think it's possible to tell right now.

You have totally lost me here. I keep getting reassured that you're town because you keep finding ways to track my thoughts well but you're way off here. I don't understand why you don't think fire's behavior can be scum there. And more distressingly, I don't understand why you were worried I was the "chosen mislim" because I have not felt that way at all. Up until this point I have not felt at any real risk of being miseliminated. So this feels alarmingly like preemptive self-defense.

Spoiler:

Ok, the promised post on Aureal
[...]

Spoiler:

[...]
I'm watching implosion be a clear driver of the wagon on Enchant and going "scum wouldn't be

that

brazen... Right?" So I'm not like totally sold on implosion, it is kinda weird that there's apparently no counterwagoning, but probably not a Mafia slot?
[...]

The reads on Mena and implosion are both kind of hedgy.

- Feel free to address any of my megapost!

[...]
The Mena/implosion hedging I'm not completely sure what you mean? I don't even talk about implosion in the post you cite. I think I worded my comment about Mena poorly though - I was saying that we could consider Mena as being on the Enchant wagon (as implosion had suggested in 949 and I was vaguely remembering since I was reading some new stuff as I did my catch-up). Not anything about Menalque's alignment- I was putting him down as town for that and the read has only gotten stronger since to where he's my strongest townread.
[...]

The bolded is false, hopefully this should be clear with the quote surgery I've done. I don't think I need to explain why someone forgetting what they've said is a little worrying.

1) There's no bolding so I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about.
2) I'm going to assume it's the implosion thing because I went back to those posts and I think it's pretty clear that I didn't understand what you were referring to and was responding in response to the post you quoted

below

your comment, not the one above it, which does have me talking about implosion unlike the one below it.
3) If this was unclear, why wait so damn long to bring it up. That feels like a gotcha attempt.
4) I lost the beginning of this post and had to re-write it because I clicked back to read yours again and then clicked the link to find the post in question and read it to figure out what was going on...

These are (IMO) some key moments in her trajectory today. 1. "let's talk not auto-elim fire", 2. pushes Ceph, 3. when I tell her that Ceph seems town she seems very happy to change back onto fire again. I'm specifically worried by the "I don't see how it's compatible but if you do I'll let it go"; this isn't how I would react I think. Usually when a player I respect disagrees with me I consider the merits of what they said to determine what to do. Sometimes there's some angst because I might find it hard to go against them. Here we have the opposite: she seems quite confident in disagreeing with me, but still lets it go and is quite happy to switch onto fire.

You think I was pushing Ceph? I was pushing fire well before that, during that, and after that. That was not a switch. I was never voting Cephrir. That was a "fire is scummy oh and hey look Ceph is being weird too, could be a partner?" I found fire's commentary there to be most out of line with reality, not Ceph's. My perception of Ceph's day two goes something like: feuds with skitter-> nitpicks me over what he and implosion were doing with Enchant-> complains about not being into this game and it sucks and he doesn't wanna have to think-> hammers skitter. Nothing about trying to start counter-wagons in it. And I was apparently one that he was trying to start, that's the sort of thing I tend to notice! That's how crappy of an attempt to wagon someone else it was, the target didn't even notice it.

And you're misrepresenting what I did, too. You said that you understood Ceph's position that I was arguing about. When someone else says they understand the position that you do not understand, does that not make you think maybe the position isn't as outlandish as you thought? I did not switch from pushing Ceph, I stopped arguing that point (mostly). I think it's clear from our brief exchange afterwards that I did not just simply accept your position that Ceph

is town

, I just moved on from that particular argument.

[Ydrasse]

img oing to very slowly start picking through the pages with like a scrap of context of what happens later

[Aureal]

ok just to be super clear so this can be the last post on this useless topic

i am spoilering this bc i think this the usefulness:length ratio of this is extremely low

See, that's the attitude that's kept me at your throat. You don't think it's useful to talk to me and explain things. I actually find this post quite useful.

i have been, over time, starting to lean scum more on sheep. i went to reread his iso to see how i felt about it now. there was a lot that felt pretty reasonable to me and like he was having generally accurate/good takes on the game and the content of his posts felt towny. i didn't really scumread his play as much as i thought i might, once i really read the things he was saying and the positions he was taking

i then thought about if sheep scum was capable of playing a game like that, and if he did, what his goals would be

i thought that he probably was just trying to look pure (meaning, look like someone who is uninformed and is genuinely trying to solve the game) so that he could collect townreads (which he did!) and set himself up to endgame. he didn't stray too far from consensus, he built a solid and probably accurate towncore, and didn't push anything too hard himself but mostly just vibed

I read that and I go 'but that's literally just classic scumplay: blend in, don't be a target pushing the bad things yourself' and I feel like you must understand that too. So I don't understand how you get to "super pure" from there. That's like, my understanding of why you decided to scumread

me

, because I wasn't being pushy and opinionated enough to suit you.

"on the right side of things" meant more in terms of general position and reads and approach to the game in the day-to-day takes and reactions and arguments, which i weigh more strongly than where he ended up on the end of day wagons

And as above, that seems like a really short-sighted position to take, only viewing what someone is saying and not what they are doing. Because that's classic scummy behavior.

your posts seemed to completely miss all of the nuance of what i was saying and assign meanings to things that seemed to me like they were really obviously not what i was saying

If I miss nuance, please feel free to explain it to me, not lmao lol at me. Like I was today, I am often posting from work, looking in very briefly and taking in snippets at a time.

i never said that sheep's being on the end of day wagons was towny (i don't think it's that scummy either, but i didn't really comment on it, it didn't factor in much to my read)

But that's the impression you give off when you call something "super pure and on the right side of things". What other impression would you expect someone to take from that?

[Ydrasse]

me when i instantly open page one, scream in agony, come back to read recent posts

[Aureal]

each time I read and reflect on her content I kinda find it >rand wolfy in that moment

like every time she flip flops and suddenly 180's a read, I think that was a relatively impure flip. everyone thinking it's villagery is something I disagreed with and the fact everyone liked it sort of accentuated negative feelings for me throughout the game

then for a moment she put in so much effort for like one page, and I stopped and thought about her overall game very large-scale. I realized theres just no reason for her to put in this much effort and keep flip-flopping her reads around right now. shitty read but she's already locktown by everyone, the entire rest of the game is coasting, just coast too lmfao it would be kinda depressing to keep tryharding like that when if scum you've already won. instead it's pro-town (makes the game less dead) and there's no agenda

there's no good reason why I didnt reach this revelation the past times she was doing it

Hey bud, guess what,

I

can think of an agenda.

It's actually starting to make me wonder if fire is indeed town again.

[Ydrasse]

VOTE: Alianna

Clearly

VOTE: Doctor Drew

I can't allow this. Getting executed D1 as SK would be pathetic.

this radiates foreshadowing

[Aureal]

I think the bad faith here in aureal-fire is aureal pulling out "sheep was on both the mislims while I, your wolfread, wasnt" and trying to apply it to this discussion

it is a) basically irrelevant, and b) misused in the way she tries to say alignment-related things with it

a) I just dont think fire said anything that has a good connection to the fact that I was on the main wagons day 1 and day 2, so the whole conversation was just spawned with inherently bad faith

b) aureal's stance in this conversation makes a lot of implications. I think it shades me (aureal disagreed when I said that so maybe im just misinterpreting??) she has snuck self-defense of herself in there, etc. but I think presence on both mislims just blatantly doesnt make sense as something thats relevant. implosion was on both mislims. hypothetically, if skitter's counterwagon fire was village, there's simply nothing wrong with being on the mislim. etc

Oh wow, look, someone is trying to accuse me of LAMIST for that comment, I could never have predicted that.

I've already responded to this all more in-depth in the response to fire, so I'm just gonna point out that it's pretty freaking crazy to not understand that I took issue with the implications of what fire said on those occasions where I've argued with him about how it wrongly portrayed what happened in the game; only to then start complaining about the implications of what I say. Oh and you're doing the same thing you just accused me of, sneaking self-defense in there by mentioning implosion.

[Aureal]

VOTE: Alianna

Clearly

VOTE: Doctor Drew

I can't allow this. Getting executed D1 as SK would be pathetic.

this radiates foreshadowing

I like the way you think.

[Aureal]

He keeps throwing out comments that seem divorced from reality like he's got a narrative he wants to subtly push; like saying Cephrir was towny for being the one trying to start counter-wagons at the end of day two (he was not doing that)

it gets very tiring having to keep doing this but just bc ydra is new here and is lacking context, this is just flat out a lie, ceph was doing exactly that in 1527 and 1530 (and for more context, this is him pulling out of a pretty deep tunnel, which makes it more significant)

I'm with you on it being tiring to keep pointing out that those are not someone seriously trying to start a different counter-wagon, let alone THE one trying to do it like your commentary made it sound.

[implosion]

VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

[Ydrasse]

in the midst of sheep iso and yeah +1

[Ydrasse]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/se ... 6142&pp=50

[fireisredsir]

gonna go ask my scum buddies in the pt to claim the towncred for pointing out that the link doesn't work, since i already got mine for that earlier

[Ydrasse]

Spoiler:

Vote Count 1.10 (Final)

Here’s a BBC Scarfolk TV testcard from 1970.

The SHS (Scarfolk Health Service) suggested these particular photographs in an attempt to subliminally accustom citizens to the plummeting success rate of state healthcare and to lower their expectations.

But they got more than they bargained for. Throughout the 70s a very faint, ghostly image of a woman’s face began inexplicably appearing on Scarfolk’s local TV broadcasts. Because she was first seen on this early ‘SHS’ testcard, she became known as “The Scarfolk Nurse.”

She appeared on all kinds of programmes, but was most often seen during children’s television broadcasts at times of social unrest. Engineers at the TV station never found a technical explanation for the phenomenon, nor could they for the examples of distant, eerie voices on the radio, which were also attributed to the “Nurse”.

Can you see her? She’s there if you look hard enough....

---

Enchant (7):

Cephrir, sheepsaysmeep, implosion, Alianna, skitter30, Invisibility, Enchant

Dunnstral (3):

Andante, Menalque, Cat Scratch Fever

GuerillaWoo (1):

Aisa

Alianna (1):

Dunnstral

Not voting (1):

GuerillaWoo

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to launch.

Vote Count 2.8 (final)

This public information poster was ubiquitous during the mid-1970s when there was a spate of cases involving adults being abducted from leisure centres, building sites and nudist beaches.

The police launched a public manhunt hoping that the perpetrator would be swiftly apprehended, but the crimes went unsolved for nearly two years. Terrified grownups would only go outside in groups of four or five and many pubs refused to open.

It was only when a police medium read the entrails of a recently sacrificed tramp that clues were finally unearthed, leading to the arrest of eight year old Steven Benson who had fed his victims to his tortoise, Admiral Twinkles.

When Steven was taken into state care and Admiral Twinkles escaped, it was suggested that the tortoise, which was an illegal immigrant, had used ‘Manchurian Candidate’ style psychological techniques to manipulate young Steven into subconsciously carrying out his instructions.

---

skitter30 (6):

Egix96, fireisredsir, sheepsaysmeep, Aisa, Merlyn, Cephrir

fireisredsir (3):

Dunnstral, skitter30, Menalque

Dunnstral (1):

Aureal

Not voting (1):

implosion

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to launch.

fireisredsir, sheepsaysmeep, and Cephrir are the three slots that are on both miseliminations. I think it is likely that there is mafia within this pool.

I feel that Egix is getting strangely little attention for what they have in terms of content. And that leans towards them being mafia with a team that isn't pushing them.

I did not like CSF's stances, personally.

I think that we should eliminate Egix, and then we should eliminate between Aureal and fireisredsir, and then we should eliminate between cephrir and sheepsaysmeep

VOTE: Egix96

lol

[Ydrasse]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ur-Power-1

does this work

[fireisredsir]

If I miss nuance, please feel free to explain it to me, not lmao lol at me. Like I was today, I am often posting from work, looking in very briefly and taking in snippets at a time.

if you are town i apologize, it seemed too bad faith and too unreasonable for me to believe that you genuinely didn't get my point. if it really was so unclear then my bad

[Aureal]

VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

Psst, implosion, can I just join you there and not worry about finding whatever it was that was making me feel better about sheep bc I just really wanna crash and eat dinner now

[fireisredsir]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ur-Power-1

does this work

i can get to the iso from there so yes

[Ydrasse]

i thnk aureal is p towny on the past few pages

[sheepsaysmeep]

popping in to say I do not think meta is a good way to read me lol

[sheepsaysmeep]

If I were doing a 1-game meta read on me from that wolf game I’d probably call me wolf here because they prob feel pretty similar