Open 879: Fire and More Fire [game over]

[The Bulge]

hi i saw a replacement happen

what should i know about the state of the game as it is right now

People are complaining about mech talk when there is no mech talk. I brought up the possibility that scum was signaling each other and the pushback is that while what I think ausuka did has scum value and ausuka has stated she doesn’t think town would punish her for doing the thing with scum value, it is unreasonable for me to think ausuka would do the valuable thing that shouldn’t be punished as scum.

i should clarify; what im talking about isnt really mechtalk, its what typically takes mechtalk's place in a not-especially-mechanically-heavy setup, and thats very subjective theorycrafting discussed in a very objective sense about what to expect from each alignment in a given setup. its almost always distracting, annoying, self-indulgent at best and scum-motivated at worst. this kind of d1 discussion typically starts with scum in my experience and usually succeeds in distracting town discussions from real scumhunting.

I can see where you're coming from. Python did it in Fire & Ice and he was scum. I don't really think this is normally the case though but I could be wrong. I just feel like people that enjoy mech like talking about mech regardless of alignment

I'm getting town vibes from Bulge here

its about a lack of real scumhunting. its a crutch for scum to justify their fake reads in a logical and reasonable sense, and then allows them to divert any argument against their point to an argument about theory rather than the game at hand, which mitigates the risk of the argument honing in on what their intentions behind the vote really are.

[The Bulge]

more ketchup later

[Cook]

hot take the quiet players are all vts

[The Bulge]

hey cook what are your thoughts on the leading wagons

[Cook]

is three a big number in a large

[Cook]

also i'm liking the bulge but i'd like to point out that discussing that as a scum tactic is in of itself doing the same thing it claims to condemn: speaking in hypotheticals

[Cook]

i read to like page 14 and wondering if anyone had thoughts on invisibility

[Cook]

could osuka be defending the mechtalkers be anything of substance

[Cook]

hey cook what are your thoughts on the leading wagons

i like all three but i think we're gonna mislim somehow

[Skygazer]

i'll post more tonight maybe. currently trapped on a submarine.

[Bellaphant]

I think scum want to publicly town hunt this game. Like moreso than usual because I feel like the scum teams probably want to coordinate with each other as far as knocking off townies. The problem is townies are going to do this too because it's what townies do. So it might be hard to pinpoint where the noise is coming from but I think we can at least feel good about scum helping town sort

Isn't this a bit contradictory? If both scumteams are sharing genuine townreads, they're just making the PoE worse for them aren't they?

No, I like it as a take: scum are slightly more incentived to find town, especially day one where there's a lot of wiggle room after: they narrow down their Poe to one they are relatively confident with, but know that a) it's day one so it's bound to be a bit wrong b) it's day one so publicly re-assessing, especially after a 'nit their ream' scum slip is fine and c) they should also be doing it knowing that the other team are doing the same thing (which felt significant when I started this sentence)

Also, bkacks town for day one, this wagon is worse thab the bingle one

[Bellaphant]

I think scum want to publicly town hunt this game. Like moreso than usual because I feel like the scum teams probably want to coordinate with each other as far as knocking off townies. The problem is townies are going to do this too because it's what townies do. So it might be hard to pinpoint where the noise is coming from but I think we can at least feel good about scum helping town sort

Isn't this a bit contradictory? If both scumteams are sharing genuine townreads, they're just making the PoE worse for them aren't they?

No, I like it as a take: scum are slightly more incentived to find town, especially day one where there's a lot of wiggle room after: they narrow down their Poe to one they are relatively confident with, but know that a) it's day one so it's bound to be a bit wrong b) it's day one so publicly re-assessing, especially after a 'nit their ream' scum slip is fine and c) they should also be doing it knowing that the other team are doing the same thing (which felt significant when I started this sentence)

Also, bkacks town for day one, this wagon is worse thab the bingle one

[osuka]

Mafia are lovers.

There is never going to be a single red flip, only pairs.

that’s true

if you need proof that i wasn’t quite fully operational when i caught up, this right here is it

[Invisibility]

What don't you like about it?

I don't think acting confident is a good reason to vote someone. Though thinking about it now I probably would've been fine if you had just said it was a gutread lol. Also I don't think 448 is fluff anymore cuz Bellaphant's explanation made sense. So like whatever

blep VOTE: Bingle

[Invisibility]

I probably would've been fine if you had just said it was a gutread lol

especially with how you just explicitly say that it's basically just a gutread in 520

[Black]

What don't you like about it?

I don't think acting confident is a good reason to vote someone. Though thinking about it now I probably would've been fine if you had just said it was a gutread lol. Also I don't think 448 is fluff anymore cuz Bellaphant's explanation made sense. So like whatever

blep VOTE: Bingle

I probably would've been fine if you had just said it was a gutread lol

especially with how you just explicitly say that it's basically just a gutread in 520

I did say "I want to push this gut feeling" when I voted for her but ok

[Invisibility]

What don't you like about it?

I don't think acting confident is a good reason to vote someone. Though thinking about it now I probably would've been fine if you had just said it was a gutread lol. Also I don't think 448 is fluff anymore cuz Bellaphant's explanation made sense. So like whatever

blep VOTE: Bingle

I probably would've been fine if you had just said it was a gutread lol

especially with how you just explicitly say that it's basically just a gutread in 520

I did say "I want to push this gut feeling" when I voted for her but ok

with embellishments that distracted me!

[Radical Rat]

I think scum want to publicly town hunt this game. Like moreso than usual because I feel like the scum teams probably want to coordinate with each other as far as knocking off townies. The problem is townies are going to do this too because it's what townies do. So it might be hard to pinpoint where the noise is coming from but I think we can at least feel good about scum helping town sort

Isn't this a bit contradictory? If both scumteams are sharing genuine townreads, they're just making the PoE worse for them aren't they?

No, I like it as a take: scum are slightly more incentived to find town, especially day one where there's a lot of wiggle room after: they narrow down their Poe to one they are relatively confident with, but know that a) it's day one so it's bound to be a bit wrong b) it's day one so publicly re-assessing, especially after a 'nit their ream' scum slip is fine and c) they should also be doing it knowing that the other team are doing the same thing (which felt significant when I started this sentence)

Also, bkacks town for day one, this wagon is worse thab the bingle one

The contradiction is that Black is saying the teams would be coordinating by sharing genuine townreads to "knock off." This makes no sense for mislims, because you can't just go "I think we should eliminate my top townread now," and for nightkills this only works if you know who the other pair is.

I of course agree that scum will be looking for Town, but if townhunting is their focus, and they're doing that publicly and honestly, as Black seems to be suggesting here, it's doing them more harm than good.

So I don't really expect scum townreads to be much different than the usual attempts to pocket people, defend buddies, or look busy.

[Bellaphant]

I don't think that's why scum trs normally? Maybe I'm just shit at buddying.

[Meuh]

Also does anyone know how to read Black? Cause I don't

VOTE: Black

What's your read on me here? Why am I scum?

MEh you've done a few things that have scumpinged me but on a broader scope I'm kinda ?? on you
Vote was mostly for pressure

[Meuh]

i read to like page 14 and wondering if anyone had thoughts on invisibility

Got some town pings there + similar thought processes and nothing scummy so probtown

[Meuh]

I feel like a whole lot of the arguing over what scum would do in this setup is assuming scum are any better than we are at figuring out optimal play. If I were scum in this setup I would have just come in playing my usual game and not thought much about the mechanical implications for at least a while.

Echoing this regarding the whole scum townreading thing, scum are probably just playing as they normally do and looking for behaviours specific to this setup is less productive than looking for regular scummy stuff that still applies here

[Meuh]

I like Bulge's case on Bingle but then I look at Bingle's ISO and it's like, hmm. Kind of just wanna leave that slot to sort for later

[Doctor Drew]

I like Bulge's case on Bingle but then I look at Bingle's ISO and it's like, hmm. Kind of just wanna leave that slot to sort for later

Last game of this sort(technically fire and ice) Bulge was way less present than here. They would kind of pop in to piss of python(which I was doing much the same lol).

This Bulge seems so different, like they turned on try hard mode. It really is pinging me hard in my gut.

Though that could just be the Wendys I just ate.

[Firebringer]

Meuh is uber uber town.

Bingle is scum

Datisi is still scum

Be one with the GeorgeBailey and vote Bingle